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00:00:01
Zan Romanoff
32 Plays10 hours ago
Thanks for listening to our episode with Zan Romanoff.
To keep up with or connect with Zan:
✨ Zan’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/zan-romanoff-28b70319b/
✨Zan’s Website: https://zanromanoff.com/
✨ Zan’s Instagram: @zanopticon
✨ Subscribe to Zan’s newsletter: https://buttondown.com/zanopticon
✨Listen to On the Bleachers, the podcast she co-hosts: https://open.spotify.com/show/0dBg8Gk8mJq09Al8NDi5tB?si=e4be6920dd034d4d
To stay in touch with Meredith and Medbury:
Follow Meredith on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/meredith-farley/
Follow Medbury on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/medbury_agency/
Subscribe to the Medbury newsletter: https://meredithfarley.substack.com/
Email Meredith: Meredith@MedburyAgency.com
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Transcript
Introduction & Zan Romanoff's Background
00:00:02
Speaker
Zan, I am so frigging excited to get to talk to you. Thank you so much for making time to do this. I know we were chatting right before we started and you are on a deadline for a book. So when we can go fast. And number two, so grateful that you made time Thank you so much. For anyone listening who doesn't know you, can you say who you are and what you do?
00:00:22
Speaker
Yes, totally. First, i just want to say I'm thrilled to be here. and that I've been on one kind of book deadline, some kind of deadline for the last 10 years. This is unfortunately, fortunately, unfortunately, the life I've chosen and another day in it.
00:00:34
Speaker
Yeah, I'm Zan Romanoff. I am an author. I've written young adult novels. Now I write romance. I'm also a journalist and culture writer. I've done a lot of writing, particularly about reality television and most particularly about the Kardashians. I was something of a Kardashian specialist and expert. The demand for that has gone down.
00:00:52
Speaker
And i also, whenever anyone asks me what I do for a living, I'm like anything with words. so i I write novels, I write journalism, I write podcast scripts, and I teach writing and I edit.
00:01:04
Speaker
What else? Is there anything else you can do that I'm missing? if I feel like there's more. I feel like we'll get into it and you'll remember more. When we first chatted, also too, I want to draw a couple
Publishing Journey with 831 Press
00:01:14
Speaker
connections. So I got introduced to you because I know Erica Werenk who wrote, I have a right on my bookshelf over here, for 831. And youre you've written one or two now novels through 831.
00:01:28
Speaker
So I have published two novels with 831. The book that I'm on deadline for now will be my third. okay Yeah, I know. It's crazy. It's amazing. It'll be three in three years, which is like quite a schedule. But yeah, the first one is called Big Fan. It was the first book that 831 published, which was a really amazing experience. And then we did a spinoff called Square Waves. And then the third one, i believe its working title and maybe its final title is Self-Indulgence.
00:01:54
Speaker
I kind of wait to keep up your background, all of your writing. And to your point around, you were like a zeitgeisty journalist back in the day. You and I think are like around the same age. We're like elder millennials who read The Hairpin. You probably wrote for The Hairpin or was that smaller? my God. did. read The Hairpin. I was obsessed with it. And like remember when I got my first piece placed in The Hairpin. was like – it was no money. I think they paid me 50 bucks or something. But it was such an emotional career high for me that I was like, made it. Yeah. I can imagine you're like, I'm a golden God. This is the pinnacle of cool girl writing. I feel like back then.
00:02:34
Speaker
And then also, I just remembered as you were talking, do you know Jessica Dufino? She has a big beauty sub stack called. Oh, I've read her work. I don't know her, but I've read her stuff and loved it. She's great. She's been on the podcast as well. And she used to write, she used to work for the Kardashians, I think, and write for them. And her like newsletter really took off. She had one big viral tweet about Kim Kardashian. I think she got thousands of subscribers in one day. It was a big deal. I don't know. I'm just sorry. I'm babbling and mentally like, connecting the dots between you and so many of our guests. And I have a lot of questions for you. you gave us you You've done a lot when it relates to words. Can you walk us through in ah a bit of a timeline of your career journey, like from back in the day, hairpin to now?
Path to Becoming a Writer
00:03:20
Speaker
Yeah. Wow. Yeah. It's been quite a journey. I have always, I think like many people who end up as writers, I've always loved writing. I've always loved reading. Those were my favorite things.
00:03:32
Speaker
But I also grew up in Los Angeles where it's funny, where it's funny, like in some ways I knew a lot of professional writers. My parents are in the movie business, but like when I was a kid, I would say to people, I want to be a writer when I grew up. And they'd say, oh yeah, you can work in TV. Like they give you health insurance for that. Yeah. But I had no clear vision of what any other kinds of professional writing might look like.
00:03:52
Speaker
And so I just assumed that was like not going to be a thing in my life. And I think also I'm like a rule follower. I'm someone who looks for permission. and i think I spent a lot of my early life looking for someone who was going to tell me, like it's OK, and open the door and be like, you can go in here and you can write professionally now, which is ah not a good idea. I don't recommend it. I think I wasted a lot of time that way. But so I did some, I just, but I just didn't know how to be ambitious about it. I wrote for like my college paper a little bit, but mostly because I had friends were editors and they would say, oh, someone like didn't turn something in today. We're screwed. We don't have anything. Cause these were physical newspapers. You had column inches, right? Yeah. To fill. And I'd be like, oh, I can all write something about Project Runway. Like by the first thing I think I ever published was this like short little piece about Project Runway.
00:04:39
Speaker
So presaged my reality television interest. Yeah. And anyway, loved doing it, but just didn't take it that seriously. and And had found while I was in school that I really loved the sustainable food movement, was very interested in that.
00:04:54
Speaker
And so I thought I was going to work in nonprofits. I was like, that's obviously the plan. And I was, and i did but I was writing a Tumblr on the side. That's also, you don't have to ask how old I am when I tell you that I started my writing career on Tumblr.
00:05:09
Speaker
Kind like there was a date stamp to all of us. They're like, okay, I see
Breakthrough Moment with Paris Review
00:05:13
Speaker
you. Yeah, exactly. but that and that turned out to be like a really important thing that I did was just being like, i want to have a hobby and like a place but would have a place to put my writing and people can see it because then friends knew I wrote and recommended that i submit something to a zine that was being put together by Jay Wertham, who is at the New York Times now and did, oh my God, what was it called? That podcast with Wesley Morris that they did. It was so good.
00:05:40
Speaker
Sorry, I'm totally blanking. No, I was, was it Cannonball? No. No. Wesley Morris' podcast. No, they were going by Jenna then, Jenna Wortham. Still processing?
00:05:53
Speaker
Still processing, yes. A zine that was being put together by Wortham, who is the New York Times and did still processing with Wesley Morris, like just really incredible writer and thinker with Thessaly LaForce, who's been an editor everywhere you'd ever want to read. They were doing a zine about girl crushes. And a friend was like, oh, you should submit something to them.
00:06:11
Speaker
And I wrote this essay. I had actually an essay that I'd written about Joan Didion, who's... Eternal girl crush, eternal. Girl crush is the wrong term, like literary icon, changed my life, all that.
00:06:22
Speaker
And so I submitted it to them. They took it and they put it on. Thessaly had previously edited for the Paris Review and they took my essay out of the zine and put it on the Paris Review's blog. Wow. And yeah, I was like 23 or 24 at this point. Stop it. Oh my God. Yeah. Like working desk job at a nonprofit.
00:06:46
Speaker
And it was amazing. And like, I got a couple emails from agents saying, they love this essay. Do you a book? And it was so funny because I immediately went from like having waited my whole life for someone to say I was a writer. Like I'd applied to writing classes in college and not gotten in. And I was just like, that's it I kept waiting.
00:07:01
Speaker
and then this thing happened. And I was like, I don't have a book proposal. And
Transition to Full-Time Writing
00:07:05
Speaker
my immediate thought was, I've missed my shot. that was like, it's over. I'm 24 and it's over. Yeah. I can see myself thinking that too and being like, God, I really fucked this up. but like Right?
00:07:16
Speaker
Yeah. It's like, i had a chance to be, yeah, as if there was one shot and like this attention was all there was ever going to be. When you're 24, you're like, you think life ends at any moment. And it's just it just, as a 38 year old, I can tell you it, if you're lucky, it does not.
00:07:30
Speaker
yes then what happened? Did you like stay in touch with them and put a proposal together? Or did you just say, stay tuned and keep moving in different directions? Yeah, I think I wrote back and was i was like, I, yeah, maybe soon. And then I tried to write a book proposal. It didn't come together.
00:07:44
Speaker
But that was really the moment at which I was like, okay, I'm allowed. I'm sort of taking it more seriously. So around that time, I'd been living and working on the East Coast. I'm from l L.A. originally.
00:07:55
Speaker
i left the job that I was at. I moved back home and was upended my life. And when I got back here, i was like, I'm going to take writing more seriously. That's one of the things that I'm going to do.
00:08:07
Speaker
and then there was this... really in some ways amazing and in some ways bad year where i couldn't get a job. I was living home with my parents, so I wasn't accruing debt, I wasn't paying rent, and I would get like to final interviews on everything and they'd be like, sorry, it's just not you. but But during that time, I took some writing classes. And then through those writing classes, I started working on a book. And it I had time, this gift that like almost no one gets of being like, i would apply to jobs for the first four hours of the workday.
00:08:41
Speaker
And then I had to do something else. So I would work on this book and that meant that by the time I did finally get a job and start working again, i had a draft of something that I could refine it and send to agents. And then, and then I got, anyway, yeah, I got an agent and sold the book.
00:09:01
Speaker
But yeah, not, it's like this book that I started writing in these writing classes turned out to be my first novel, a song to take the world apart. So that's how I sold my first book. And then for a while, i was just writing novels and working.
00:09:14
Speaker
Did that for two or three years. And ultimately, the job that I was in was just not a great fit for me. I was having some mental health issues. i had always been very anxious and had stopped. It had always been something I could deal with. And around that time, for a variety of reasons, it just stopped being something that I could manage by myself. I was having panic attacks all the time. so Ultimately, I left that job. I got a Lexapro.
00:09:45
Speaker
Big ups to Lexapro has really sustained me through the last decade. and Because also at that point, I'd sold a second young adult novel. And so I was like, okay, had some money saved up because I was working in a nonprofit. I was not really getting paid a lot.
00:10:00
Speaker
But I had some money saved up and i really I just needed some time to get my mind. So I was like, I'll just... And I had friends who were freelancing. I was like, I'll just freelance and see how that goes and figure it out. And then I'm sure like it won't really work out because freelancing is so hard and I'll get another job at some point.
00:10:18
Speaker
And that was nine and a half years ago. Wow.
Balancing Career and Personal Challenges
00:10:21
Speaker
Yeah. Okay, I wanted to ask you about this because when i look when you talk about your career, I'm like, it is like banger after banger. And so far, it's like cool milestones, like some things that so many writers would dream of happening. And I'm curious about the internal experience for you from that perspective of you're a working writer. You're still always on projects.
00:10:42
Speaker
How does it, do you feel? Are you like incredibly confident when you think about yourself in in the capacity of like income and finances or is there still a part of you that sometimes stresses out and is like, when's my next what's my next project going to how does what's the it From the outside, I know people are probably like, damn, she's got it made. And I'm curious about the internal experience there.
00:11:04
Speaker
Yeah, it's a really good question because I feel like this is the thing that I'm always talking to people about. Even people in my own life who know me well and have watched me over the years go through all this. Yeah, people are always like, oh, but you're killing it. 831 was just in the New York Times. like My book cover was a half page in the New York Times. And you know whatever, all these like accomplishments and really cool things happening – And i'm I'm anxious all the time.
00:11:29
Speaker
and that's in part, as I said, like that's a psychological issue. That's an inheritance from both sides of my family. Thank you to the Jews. but but Your survival instincts served you really well. So there's several things, several reasons I think for not feeling like confident. And one of which, yeah, is just my disposition.
00:11:46
Speaker
One of which is the industry, which has changed massively in the time that I've been in it. Like I said, writing for The Hairpin felt like the coolest thing I had ever done when that happened. The Hairpin doesn't exist anymore, right? I always say you can tell how long I've been in media by if you look at my resume, what a graveyard of publications are on it. what' oh I wrote for The Hairpin. I wrote for The All. I wrote for BuzzFeed News. I wrote for Racked, which was a Vox website that they folded in I wrote for Healthiest, which was a Bon Appetit vertical that doesn't exist anymore. i wrote for the LA Times book section, which doesn't exist anymore.
00:12:20
Speaker
my God. Yeah. So it's really hard under those circumstances to ever feel like you've completely got the ground under your feet and you're just like, cool, I know exactly what I'm doing next.
00:12:31
Speaker
But then I do think also... And this is just a universal thing no matter what you're doing. You only ever see the thing that's in front of you. yeah And so I'm always like, yeah, I know it was my dream to write for XYZ, but I did that. i haven't achieved this other thing yet, so how could I call myself a success?
00:12:49
Speaker
I think really often... about a conversation that I had with a friend of mine who is a novelist and a very successful one to the point where a bunch of her books were adapted into a television show. And anyway, she got paid a lot of money. And I saw her like right after that deal had been signed before anything had been made.
00:13:09
Speaker
And it was right after New Year's too. So it's the very beginning of the year, everyone's plans, whatever. And she was like, my only plan for this year is to try and figure out how to enjoy what's happening to me.
00:13:20
Speaker
Because she was like, I've seen other people go through this and i and just be stressed the whole time, you know, about the adaptations not going well. I'm not getting the publicity I thought I would. The numbers aren't good, whatever it is. There's always something to be stressed about. And she was just like, i feel like if I can't learn how to enjoy this, I'm never going to enjoy anything. anything And but then she was like, but I have to figure that out. It doesn't come naturally. But I think we all expect there's some moment at which we'll hit some milestone and we'll just be happy and feel satisfied.
00:13:49
Speaker
Yeah. I have only rarely and briefly achieved that. And I've seen friends who have like rarely and briefly achieved it, but it's not like you just wake up and you're naturally happy. You have to work on it. Yeah. Periodically be doing my resume because I still apply for stuff. And I'm like, damn, that girl sounds really, she sounds, she's done a lot. I never feel like that.
00:14:12
Speaker
That's funny. I love that you shared that story. Like I totally get that I've never. sold books to Netflix. Me neither. That sounds amazing. But I can see in small things of times where I was like falling in love with my husband. So this was 10 years ago. And i remember I, at the time, I don't think I am now, but I was working through some like anxious attachment things.
00:14:32
Speaker
but I remember my therapist saying to me, she's but can you enjoy this a little bit? She was like, you seem to be falling in love with a great guy. Is there any part of you that can just be like happy about that? And I was like, no. yeah And then similar. Yeah, it's it is tricky. So I don't know. How do you ah what how do you do that? Do you like ritualize things? do you take an afternoon when something really great happens to you and be like,
00:14:58
Speaker
I got a new book dealer. I've got this really cool project. I'm going to go. Is there anything you do? How do you approach it? yeah
00:15:08
Speaker
I don't have a specific thing that I do the same every time, but I always, i really do try to take the wins when they come yeah and do something. And that could be everything from just being like, I'm going to get up from my laptop and take a walk because it's nice outside to having drinks with friends.
00:15:25
Speaker
Or i do, when I have a book come out, I usually buy myself something. I will say some expensive little nice treat. Because it is, it's nice to have like when everything feels so uncertain and it just feels like it could all get taken away. and Also, don't know, I hate the word relevance, but like you're trying to be relevant all the time. There's this feeling of if people stop paying attention to me, I'll never be able to get them to start again. yeah And you're just always fighting. Anyway, it's nice to have things just to be like, even if this all goes away,
00:16:01
Speaker
It existed and it like mattered for a while. but yeah, my one of my favorite things, I used to write with a big group of friends at this very funny coffee shop in LA called Bon Vivant.
00:16:16
Speaker
oh ah Yeah, it's it's very funny. It's like always decorated for every holiday. we used to call it like Cost Plus World Market. Yeah. But one of the great things about it is that it's like a restaurant and a coffee shop and a bar. So you could get, and they have these big tables, you could get a group of eight or 10 or probably six or eight writers together. if someone hadn't eaten lunch, they could get lunch. If someone just coffee, they could get coffee.
00:16:39
Speaker
And once it hit five or six, if anyone had a milestone to celebrate, we could all get a glass of champagne. wow and What we learned was that someone always had a milestone. Someone was always turning in a draft or got good notes on a draft or heard something was going to happen. and But that was really great because it because it were my it gave us some just moment in which to be like, does it is anyone have a champagne thing today? But I think that's actually that's the most important thing I think actually is having friends because left to my own devices will not always celebrate my wins. And it's really helpful to have friends. That same the similar group of people we get together and do happy hour every week on Friday. Like we have a Friday ritual now.
00:17:20
Speaker
And often I'll come in and like, oh, this thing happened. Like Zan, we're getting champagne. What's wrong with you? That sounds great and amazing. Our Medbury is head of exec content. Julia lives in LA. I'm going to have to ask her if she knows that coffee shop. Oh, yeah. It's a very funny place. Like not cool in the slightest, but it has everything. Well, it sounds great.
00:17:44
Speaker
Okay. I want to talk a little bit about, I want to understand what your day or I don't know, work week, et cetera.
Approach to Writing and Deadlines
00:17:50
Speaker
So you this is your third book in three years that you're just wrapping this month.
00:17:56
Speaker
What does the process of writing – I guess these are romance novels, so I don't know if that different process than a different type of book for you. But what is the year like when you are writing the book? What's the timeline? What's your process?
00:18:09
Speaker
Just tell me everything. I'm really curious about it. Yeah, I feel like this is the big question people are always and I'm sure you have a similar when you don't have a traditional job. And especially when you're a freelancer, self-employed or whatever, people are like, so what do you do?
00:18:21
Speaker
I'm like, it's the same. But I'm like, it's the same thing in some ways as when I had a regular job. I wake up and I'm like, what needs to get done on what timeline? And then I break out like, when does it make sense?
00:18:32
Speaker
I will say a nice thing about the romance novels as compared to the YA that I used to do is they have a clearer timeline on them. and Publishing is notoriously not timeline driven. It's a very loose, baggy kind of thing where like They'll tell you a deadline, but it's not the real. It's like you could turn that in months later and it'd be fine. With A3-1, we're on a pretty tight timeline. So they're like, here's what we need to buy.
00:18:57
Speaker
here's and here's what we're trying to do. Obviously, shit happens. have a cold right now. I've had just family stuff come up or whatever it is. So stuff things do get moved. But in theory, like at the beginning of a project, we say, OK, I'm writing this book. We want it to be out. In this case, I think it's like August of twenty six So here are the deadlines we need to hit if that's going to be the case.
00:19:19
Speaker
And then I block out. I have, in this case, four weeks. I'm revising. I'm not writing. So I try and figure out either by chapter or by page count. What do I need to do every day if I work at an even pace?
00:19:32
Speaker
Yeah. where What do I need to be doing to get this done in time and in time to read it again and make sure it doesn't always go right the first time, all that stuff. I usually have kind of that in mind. Right now I'm trying to do two, three chapters a day of revision.
00:19:46
Speaker
and that just depends. Some chapters I'm like, oh, this doesn't really need much. And some, I, the other day spent truly three hours on a paragraph. So you never know. yeah Do you find it easy?
00:19:57
Speaker
stick to the schedule you lay out like you're good at that I'm yes I am good at it and I do think it's one of the things that makes me a good freelancer is that if I if I say I'm gonna do something I'll typically do it the way I said are you familiar with Gretchen Martin with the four tendencies I've heard it but I can't remember it remind me I think I've heard it in the past but I don't remember This is I'm not a huge personality like type person. I don't know my INTJ or whatever. But this I find really helpful. It's this woman.
00:20:28
Speaker
Pretty sure it's pretty sure it's Gretchen Martin. do want to describe her? She's a pop scientist. Anyway, wrote a book about happiness. One of the things she found in the book about happiness was that the happiest people habitually do things they enjoy.
00:20:42
Speaker
And I read that book. I remember that. I read that first one. Okay. Yeah. Sorry. Right. And so then, no, exactly. So then she was like, how do you develop habits? Cause it sounds really obvious. Oh, did you think she would enjoy it? Sure.
00:20:53
Speaker
We're all busy. So how do you like, how do you develop the habit of doing things you enjoy? So then she did this, she studied and wrote a book about habit formation. And she has this, she came up with this idea of the four tendencies, which is four general groupings of people and how you can motivate yourself to form a habit. love it.
00:21:12
Speaker
One of them is the obliger. It's most women. It's basically like, if you say you'll do something for someone else, then you'll do it. But if you say you'll for yourself, that doesn't really stand as a commitment necessarily, right? You'll go out of your way for other people, but not for yourself. There's the questioner, which is someone who needs a reason, right? It's I'll do whatever, but I need a reason for it. These people like hate a new year's resolution. Cause like it's an arbitrary day in January. Why would I do that? I need, it's my birthday that I'll make my big changes.
00:21:39
Speaker
There's rebels, can't tell them what to do. they They can't make themselves work. No one else can. it's just they're chaotic. It's hard to work with. And then there's me, the upholder. Basically, the upholder is if I make a commitment, it really doesn't matter who it's to, how serious it feels to anyone else, I will do it.
00:21:58
Speaker
but The same way if I said to you, like, I'm going to come be on this podcast this morning, it'd be weird and unprofessional of me not to show up. If I say to myself, I'm going to sit down at 10 and write unrevised two chapters, I take that commitment almost as seriously. I'm not going to not show up the same way I wouldn't show up for another person. Wow.
00:22:15
Speaker
Yeah, it can be, it's not always great. It means that I overcommit myself and I like really have trouble saying no. Once I've said I'll do something, I really have trouble walking away from it, even if it's like detrimental to things in my life. but But in terms of being a freelancer, it serves me really well.
00:22:32
Speaker
That's super interesting. As you were saying, if you as you were describing the four different buckets, like different people I know were flashing into my mind. And i was like, oh they're a rebel. Oh, they're questioner, et cetera. Yeah. Which one are you, would you say?
00:22:47
Speaker
i don't know. Okay. At first i was thinking potentially obliger. I think I'm really getting better and better at not like people pleasing. But i do think that the reason, like my whole career I've been in been an agency work and I think it is deeply creative, but I also think that the fact that it is within a structure with deadlines for clients, I would never miss a deadline or we wouldn't when it's for myself. And I'm like, I'm going to do my morning pages every single morning next week.
00:23:22
Speaker
50 50 so I think maybe that occurs but at the same time that I think when you say uphold or I don't know I think that's shifting questioner for sure i feel like there's me there questioner because there are a lot of like traditional things in life where i'm like but why that's stupid I don't know it's interesting could it be a mix or are you always one or the other No, i think I think you can definitely be a mix. My friends and I definitely talk about it in terms of astrology, right? So I'm always like, I'm an upholder, a question arising for sure. but if you're trying to convince me to do something, like a reason is the best way.
00:23:53
Speaker
and her thing really is, it' yeah, it's not like you're born into this and you're only one thing. shes It's about figuring out what your tendency is And that's why she calls it a tendency and working with it, right? If you're like... <unk>re figuring out what motivates you if you are like i'm a questioner okay then i'm gonna need reasons if i am an obliger being like then i a writing partner is going to be the best thing for me self-motivation maybe just isn't gonna work yeah yeah so so any mix is possible and yeah we're all human beings no one's like exactly one thing but it's just one of those i don't know i find it super useful so and yeah
00:24:26
Speaker
what kind of Okay, I'm curious now, what kind of books do you read?
Reading Habits and Inspirations
00:24:29
Speaker
But how often do you read? Are you one of those writers who I'm always reading? Or are you like, nope, when I'm writing, I'm not? And are you enter you into more of the psychology, fiction? Who's your favorite writer?
00:24:39
Speaker
Oh, God. Yeah, who's your favorite writer is a stupid question. I red reject that question. Stupid is just impossible. It's really, really hard. Yeah, i'm I am a reader for sure. i have to be reading.
00:24:54
Speaker
my therapist uses the phrase refill the well, which is very corny, but it's real. i really, i need to be reading. i don't, it's funny, I don't necessarily read what I'm writing.
00:25:06
Speaker
Like I'm writing romance right now and what I'm reading is a lot of speculative fiction just because that's what I'm in the mood for. But i yeah, and yeah we I would say I read mostly fiction. I'm trying to read more nonfiction. I'm trying to get better about it. Like, especially, I don't know, just feels like there's so much information flying around in fragments all the time. Like, I would love to read a whole book by an expert on a subject and like get deep into something as opposed to being like, I read three or whatever. I read 15 headlines about various things today.
00:25:36
Speaker
But yeah, no, I'm a big fiction reader. i feel like I just, it's helpful to me always to watch how other people put stories together and just think through, oh, you could do this, you could do that. Here's a thing you could try. Here's a voice you haven't thought of, whatever it is. So I'm always, almost always reading something. I'm actually between books right now, but.
00:25:56
Speaker
Have you been a romance reader before? Because I remember Erica was like, when 831 approached her, she was excited to work with them and thought it was really cool. But she also was like, I've never even read a romance. I don't know what these tropes are. And she had to like go bone up on it a little. And then she's like, okay, i think I can do this. Is that you? Or are you like, my im I'm in the genre? I'm a funny middle ground, actually. So I'm not a huge or had not been a huge romance reader, but I grew up reading fan fiction, which is – Yeah, very similar. And certainly in terms of being like romance are often, there's tons of non-romantic, non-sexual fan fiction. Everyone thinks it's all, you know, about sex. It's not.
00:26:38
Speaker
But the stuff I read was very romantic and very sexual and very trope heavy. So, and it's funny, like that was always my... I think my kind of guiltier secret pleasure, the way that my friends who grew up reading romance had their, had that as their guiltier secret pleasure.
00:26:55
Speaker
and then both those things got more and more acceptable in conversation at kind of the same time. And I feel like I had friends where I looked at each other was like oh you speak this language? You know?
00:27:06
Speaker
So that was how I like grew up and into the genre. And when I first started writing romance, it felt like coming home. I was like, oh, I absolutely know this. But it wasn't, it was just a slightly different version of it. Yeah. Yeah.
00:27:17
Speaker
Is there a type of writing that you haven't tried yet that you'd be really interested to try? I would say there's two things. It's funny. So I live in LA and whenever I say I'm a writer, people are like, oh, TV. Again, TV. Like, no. it's i have a pilot if anyone wants to look at it, but I've never seriously pursued it or done anything like that.
00:27:40
Speaker
So that's for sure something I'd be interested in. But I haven't like yet done it professionally. I haven't i have never done like a super deep dive into it. The thing that I've really never written and that I'm scared to write and that i don't think I'll ever write is poetry.
00:27:54
Speaker
But you but you would want to, do you think? Or you just, no, it's just not my thing. I would love to in theory. It seems so interesting to me. But it's just such a different way of thinking. Like, i it just Yeah, to sort of just be in language and like metaphor and abstraction. and like, I love concrete. I love narrative. Like, I love a plot.
00:28:15
Speaker
I'm always like, let me tell you a story. And it has parties and it has kissing and all this fun stuff. I want to write long. Like... I just, it's just not how my brain works. I would love to know what it would be like to naturally want to write poetry. And I just don't think I ever will.
00:28:32
Speaker
Yeah. I have friends who've written picture books and, and it's, there's 50 or 75 words in a picture book. And I just have no idea how you tell a story with that few words. It seems it's like magic to me.
00:28:44
Speaker
Yeah, I really i like Stephen King a lot. i feel like I'm on a Stephen King kick right now. And he did a, I just picked it up in the store the other day. It was a collaboration.
00:28:55
Speaker
It was the Maurice Sendak illustrations for Hansel and Gretel. I guess he did. painted the backgrounds for an opera that was Hansel and Gretel.
00:29:08
Speaker
And then they took the backgrounds, turned them into a picture book and Stephen King wrote like basically a short little kid's fairy tale. and I was thinking along the same lines. I was like, he's really evoking so much with two to three sentences per page and this imagery. And i it was the type of thing where i was like, you could sit down for hours and be like, how did he do this? And also too, like with Medbury, we're doing LinkedIn content. I think about that a lot too. It's a lot harder to,
00:29:33
Speaker
you have to evoke a lot in a really meaningful, or not meaningful, there's a lot of skill in writing short and it's complicated and it takes so much more time than people think it does. No, it really does. And this has been the interesting thing about working with 831 and writing novellas is that they their books are about 40,000 words, whereas oh young adult novels often 60 to 80, literary fiction might be more in the 70 to 90 kind of range. but basically double the word count.
00:30:03
Speaker
And like cramming, especially a romance, which has very distinct plot beats that we expect and we notice if they are missing, figuring out how to fit all of that into 40,000 words has been a crazy technical challenge. And I'm like, I'm very grateful that I'm doing this three books into my career. i think people always are like, oh, so it's shorter, so it's easier. And I'm like, no, it's so much harder. Like,
00:30:28
Speaker
I miss the padding to wander around and have a subplot and do all this stuff. And instead, I'm okay, every scene has to be doing three different things simultaneously and perfectly. Yeah. I'm really excited to read the next one when it comes out. You said August of next year is the tentative date. That's the plan if I hit this deadline.
00:30:48
Speaker
Okay. I know i want to ask one kind of last question, and I think it might be a difficult one. But if you were talking to a younger writer, say a 24-year-old ish person akin to you when you were 24 today.
00:31:01
Speaker
And they looked at your career and they said, I just want to do exactly what you do. I want to do these cool projects. What advice would you give them?
00:31:10
Speaker
God.
00:31:13
Speaker
It's so hard because the industry has changed so much since I've been in it, which is just 10 years. Actually, I did meet recently with a girl who went to the same college that I went to and like basically found me on LinkedIn and was like, you're doing what I want to do. How are you doing it? yeah Yeah. And, and she, my answer, honestly, I was like, you're so much more vicious and together than I was your age. You're going to be fine. i was like, at your age, I don't even, I couldn't even admit to myself. That's what I wanted to do yet Interesting. go
00:31:46
Speaker
ah Yeah. But anyway, but the other thing I said was that the industry has changed again. Yeah. All the websites that I started out writing for don't exist anymore. Like that market has contracted so much, you know, that i I'm like in terms of literally how to, who do you call? do you figure that out? I'm not a hundred percent sure, but I think there are a couple good pieces of advice.
Advice to Aspiring Writers
00:32:07
Speaker
One of which is that is not to wait for permission to do it yourself. That like this whole career that I have stemmed out of being like, fuck it. okay No one can stop me from having a Tumblr. Right. Yeah.
00:32:19
Speaker
And then just writing stuff and my friends were like, oh, this is good. And then helped encourage me to share it. And people saw it. Like I've gotten jobs off of just putting stuff on Twitter on, I had ah a tiny letter for a long time, the proto sub stack, like the people would reach out and be like, I saw you wrote about this.
00:32:37
Speaker
Could you do a version for us? Or could I take something you wrote for that and publish it? Whatever it is. So not waiting for permission, making the thing you want to make. putting it out there, letting the world see it, as absolutely terrifying and horrifying as that is.
00:32:51
Speaker
But I think also the thing that has really determined the shape of my career is that I've just pursued what I was interested in without worrying too much, hopefully, about what other people like thought of it or whether it seemed cool to other people. When I was in college, i it was like,
00:33:17
Speaker
So what is now called Indie Sleaze was a big, it was like the hipster era and everyone was listening to indie music and indie bands and like trying to be authentic and hipster or whatever.
00:33:27
Speaker
And I did all that. I absolutely did all that. But I also was, and I like writing young adult novels and I want to listen to pop music. And my friends really mocked me for it. They were just like, you're a child, like a 12 year old, what's wrong with you? You're not cool. And I was kind maybe I'm not cool. Maybe that is what it is. But that's what I've made my career on is being interested in pop music and being interested in reality television, being interested in what people consider trash culture and willing to take it seriously. I'm willing to like unabashedly love it and talk about it and know about it. I'm like my interest in the kar out in the Kardashians got me on NPR.
00:34:03
Speaker
Yeah. And so I just think whatever weird bullshit you're into like being authentically, deeply into it and pursuing it and talking about it in the way that is like most impassioned and interesting to you is the best route to go down as opposed to being like, can I pursue something that seems legit to others?
00:34:24
Speaker
Yeah. That, I love that advice. I think it's great. Also, I don't know, tell me if I've got this wrong, but as you're talking and maybe I'm like projecting some of my own experience onto this, but something that occurs to me is that Like maybe there is an anxious side of you that would – a part of you that would crave the like amazing security of a W-2 and all the health insurance and all of that.
00:34:49
Speaker
And when you haven't pursued that and you've pursued like your passions and your interests, your you feel the pressure of that sometimes and you're like, that's a little uncomfortable for me.
00:35:01
Speaker
but' But there's another part of you that's fuck it, we're doing it anyway. Isn't that true? Or it's like you've given yourself up to the God of following your interests, your passions, et cetera. Or does that not – tell me if it doesn't resonate if you're like – Yeah, no. Yeah.
00:35:14
Speaker
i Yeah, no, I go back and forth every day, I would say. Totally just depending. There are days when I'm like, I can never do anything else. This is it. Yeah, fuck it. Full send. but Yeah, there are days when I'm like, I'm 38 years old. I don't know where my next paycheck is coming from. this industry is collapsing. And how do I even explain what I do? Yeah, it's hard. It's really hard. to be out it's hard it's hard It's hard to be out on your own.
00:35:41
Speaker
I don't have any coworkers. There's no one else to be like, can can you deal with this thing today? Oh, I don't have time. There's it God. Periodically, I'll spend half a day chasing down a check.
00:35:52
Speaker
I got into it with, what was it? It was Meredith and Bill.com. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. barr Meredith, the like publishing. Yeah, yeah.
00:36:03
Speaker
And Bill.com because they had, but Meredith had paid someone else's Bill.com account. Oh, well. Anyway, they kept, but that they were just like, we paid someone. And i was like, I know, but that's the one's not me. Right. And getting everyone to talk to other. It took days, right? It took days that I was supposed to be doing other stuff with. Anyway. No, and especially like, as I've said several times, I'm 38, like i and I'll be 39 in three weeks. So I'm really staring down the barrel of 40.
00:36:27
Speaker
And yeah, just constantly being like, is this what quote unquote the life of a 40 year old looks like? Is it enough? is Am I adult? Have I done enough? And yeah again, you would look at my resume and be like, of course she has. And I'm like, no, not hardly. i feel so insecure.
00:36:43
Speaker
And it's crazy. i also I always appreciate it so much when people like you come on and are real and vulnerable because you do have the resume of someone that 90% of writers would be like, I'll never do what she's done. I really, I'll never get there.
00:36:56
Speaker
And I appreciate you being so vulnerable and open to be like, It's a little messy in here. Like it's not all I'm doing amazing everyday feelings, even if on paper you totally are.
Balancing Gratitude and Career Uncertainty
00:37:06
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. and And I hope it doesn't sound like ungrateful because because it is awesome. I'm very grateful also to have friends who have been with me and doing this and on their own writing journeys the whole time who periodically, yeah, when I'm freaking out, I'll be like, remember when you used to sob about how you were never going to get a book published? You've done it. You've got to do it. Yeah. And I think that's the hard thing is like being grateful for everything that I've been able to do while also acknowledging the uncertainty that it's just not clear that I'll get to keep doing it. And that's what's really hard is just always being like, okay, a third book, but what about the fourth book? And what about the next contract? You just, you're very aware of uncertainty all the time and it's hard.
00:37:49
Speaker
Yeah, no, I totally get it. Thank you so much. And you, for folks who like are listening and one, one will follow you in some capacity or two would be interested to work with you. Where can they hunt you down and get in touch with you?
00:38:02
Speaker
Yeah, I'm all over the internet. I am, i have a website, zanromanoff.com. I am at Zanopticon on most social media. It's a joke my friend Grigor made in college that I've never gotten over. The panopticon is the like intense surveillance. The Xanopticon is me being surveilled on the internet. So yeah, I'm on Instagram. I'm on blue sky. i i have a Twitter account. I haven't used it since Elon took over. oh and I do have a newsletter. It's button down.
00:38:31
Speaker
if you Google, i don't know, Xanopticon button down newsletter. it's And it's linked on my website, obviously. So yeah, I'm all over the place. Oh, and I also, i write, I bet, sorry, I'm all over the place.
00:38:42
Speaker
You can read my books out from 831. And I also write for a podcast called Scamfluencers. So you can hear me there. And I also actually co-host a podcast about sports and pop culture called On the Bleachers, which has been my passion project the last couple of years. So that's been really fun.
00:38:56
Speaker
Amazing. We'll put all your contact info in the chat notes. So if anyone listening is, I really want to subscribe or get in touch with Zan, just scroll down. It'll be there. Thank you so much. I love talking to you. i am so glad that, and thanks for making time. I know you're on this deadline. You're not feeling amazing. I appreciate it so much. Thank you. Oh no, this was so fun. and thank you. I think when we talked to the first time I was like, I'm a yapper and i think I proved that today. so thank you for having this conversation with me.
00:39:23
Speaker
my pleasure.