Transcript
Speaker: Hello and welcome back to part two of the Odyssey and it's 2026 no 2026 adaptation of the Odyssey directed by Christopher Nolan in part two we are covering the plot points um I'm excited to get into it lots of differences to discuss I'm Sarah Day I'm Chris and I'm Jordan and we'll get started after these messages
Speaker: Welcome to Book Watch, the podcast where pages meet screens. Each week, we dive into the world of adaptations, comparing beloved books with their cinematic counterparts. From faithful retellings to bold reimaginings, we'll break down what worked, what didn't, and what made each adaptation unforgettable. Whether you're a bookworm, a movie buff, or both, grab your bookmark, grab your popcorn, and let's watch some books.
Speaker: All right, we're going to dive right in because there's a lot of plot to talk about and there's a lot of changes to discuss. And the way I did the so outline was just to go kind of by the books or chapters, if you will, of the Odyssey. And then we can kind of compare...
Speaker: The movie and I didn't ask you this offline guys, but do you should we like outline the book and then kind of talk about the movie and like the differences or should we go book. to book I don't know. i The storytelling method is so different between the two that it's kind of hard. Like you can't really do a timeline progression and compare through because like a lot of a lot of how the story gets told is Odysseus like visiting various kingdoms and telling his story to different people and like
Speaker: All of that gets cut out of the movie. Like, that he skips straight from Calypso back to home instead of stopping in this kingdom and stopping in this kingdom and, like, coming back with treasure and stuff. Right. He tells this story to Calypso, like, through yes memories coming back.
Speaker: Yes. So, like... whatever you want, girl. Because, like, you you can't, like, you can go book by book, but then it's going like, oh, this was cut, this was cut, and, like, there's not going to be, like, that much to talk about. Well, let's start with, let's, I'll kind of combine a few. so um Book one, like you said, Jordan, it's all completely cut because it's all of the gods discussing kind of what's happening. um And then we cut to Telemachus and Penelope.
Speaker: um And then we also open and it is like... um Odysseus is like in the middle of his story and he has to like go back to the beginning um so we do kind of get that similar vibe just without the gods but we do get Telemachus being like where's my dad and then we see ah Odysseus with Calypso and I did like that scene You see a figure walking on the shore with Odysseus.
Speaker: um And then all of a sudden it's Zendaya, it's Athena. And then it cuts back and it's Calypso again. um so um we So that's kind of the beginning of our story. And then...
Speaker: We're learning about the suitors and how they want to marry Penelope. And he's like, should I be king or should she remarry? And then um he goes and meets Menelaus. Say it again. Menelaus. Menelaus.
Speaker: ah John Bernthal. John Bernthal's character. And um he, in the book, tells Telemachus that he is alive but trapped on Calypso's island.
Speaker: um And then this is back in Ithaca when the suitors are plotting to kill Telemachus. And then um the gods actually tell Calypso to release Odysseus. And that's when he builds his wrath he goes to the Phoenicians and the princess discovers him and takes her to her parents. He tells the story and then he leaves and he goes to um King Alcinus and Queen Aridae and asks for help.
Speaker: And then... um Oh, there's like the the games and the feast and his honor. They sing about the Trojan War and he he's crying and that's when he's revealed who he is. And then he's telling his stories. And that includes the Lotus Eaters, the Cyclops, the And um he they escaped the Cyclops by saying he's nobody, which is, you know, your Percy Jackson reference. But they cut that out of the film. um Yeah, that's upset about my yeah i'm upset about that. We'll get there when we get there, but I do not appreciate that. And then the winds, which is another, you know, Percy Jackson um thing. um That's what causes the the ships to wreck. um Right? Am I getting my story straight? um
Speaker: And then... they encounter cersei um and they get turned into pigs and then you know she he overcomes it and she helps them off the island and then that's when they go to the underworld and they meet with the prophet um and then it's so much we're only on book 12
Speaker: Oh, and then the sirens hop and then Scylla and how do you say it? to chebiti Charybdis. Charybdis. Then they reach the island of the sun god and that's when they eat the cows.
Speaker: Oh, and then they finally get to go back to Ithaca and this is when Athena disguises him as the beggar.
Speaker: And um he visits the swineherd, Eumaeus. Telemachus and Odysseus meet and he discovers who he is.
Speaker: They return to the palace. He still disguises a beggar. the The dog who dies after seeing him. So sad. Odysseus defeats the beggars.
Speaker: Penelope does her trial. trial She sets the challenge and then Odysseus reveals himself and kills all the suitors and order is restored in the palace.
Speaker: And then there's something about in the movable bed. She just wants to make sure that he's really Odysseus. Built my bed into a tree. And then there's. um the souls of the suitor arrive in the underworld and that's where we end the book.
Speaker: And then, so you can definitely see where, you know, Nolan takes certain plots of this book and how he interroved them in a really unique way.
Speaker: But then there's still a lot that's cut and I'm going to let Jordan take it away. Cause I know, you know, so much of Percy Jackson takes from the Odyssey. Like they talk about him all the time. So I'm sure these are things that you wanted to see that were changed or cut. um yeah So yeah, we could kind of, now that we've kind of outlined the Odyssey book, we can go into the movie and like what we liked and what we didn't like going from the beginning to end.
Speaker: Yeah. Well, just like, I don't want to talk about Percy Jackson the whole time because we have other podcasts where I do that. But like each book of Percy Jackson kind of follows the story of different heroes. And so this book two, The Sea of Monsters, is the Odyssey, is Odysseus' journey. And they hit all of the same, not ah all of, but most of the same points that Odysseus hits because they're traveling through the same sea that he ah travels through. So, I mean. remember And then in November, book three. Yeah. I forget which hero that mimics, but it's another one.
Speaker: Yeah, i don't know. and I think it's Heracles. Anyways, we're not talking about Percy Jackson right now. um I didn't, again, didn't mind the cutting of him meeting like all the, like the Phaeacians and Nausicaa and Alcinous and Arete, that didn't bother me at all because like in the historical context of the the odyssey like the only way to tell history is by word of mouth and the only way to like for news to travel was word of mouth like there wasn't newspapers or obviously no internet like there wasn't a written form of history at the time which is why like there's so many different translations of the odyssey because there is no one single text of the odyssey right so
Speaker: like because that was the storytelling method, it makes sense that like when you're telling a story, the story is told over and over and over again in those ways. So I didn't mind any of that being cut. i was like, honestly, great, because that's just a lot of talking and it's going to be boring and fine. I didn't mind the Lotus Eaters being combined with Calypso because she you know she does keep him trapped and he does kind of want to stay and it's kind of that push and pull of...
Speaker: both happening at the same time. And so like throwing the drugging lotus flower into that made sense of like making it easier for her to keep him trapped in him and like dulling his mind. So he's not thinking about his wife and child at home that he's abandoned for 20 years. um So some of those changes like we're fine. I didn't mind it It made sense. I was like, okay, I get it. I'm on board.
Speaker: Not doing the nobody joke or the the play on words of nobody with Polyphemus really bothered me. And like like i was joking last week, like Rick Riordan did it in a children's book. like And Christopher Nolan was like on record saying like it didn't make sense. And it's like, yes, it does, girl. Like, yes, it does make sense.
Speaker: It doesn't make sense if he's not talking to like, I think that's part of the God story almost. So, you know, it's a cop says, you know, nobody tricked me. Okay. Well, nobody tricked you. Great. We're fine. yeah He has to have somebody to be addressing that with. And so it might, I think he may but didn't have the wherewithal to do that with this character. He spoke, but it wasn't a, uh, somebody was speaking to. So I think that's part of why that was gone, but I agree that it it was sad to not see it there.
Speaker: Yeah. Well, and again, like like I said last week, like I missed having the gods and the fantastical element of this story in this film. It just wasn't there like at all, really, except for Cersei's witchcraft. like That's pretty much it. And like Scylla and Charybdis a little bit, but even that was very much like like put through the realism machine instead of... like a I don't know. Obviously, it's not ever going to be the same as Percy Jackson because it's not trying to be, but it's like it's not as fantastical or like whimsical. um
Speaker: And so like i just polyphemus like Odysseus' character is arrogant and prideful and his fatal flaw is hubris. And so that's the point of that story with Polyphemus is like, nobody is hurting you. Nobody is hurting you. And then at the end, he's like, haha, JK, it was me, Odysseus. And that's how Poseidon identifies him. And it's like, that's how now I know who to punish because you you were so arrogant that you thought that nothing bad would happen to you that now I'm going to come after you. you revealed yourself. And so like all of that characterization of Odysseus being, you know, in my translation of the audio book that listened to, he's God-like Odysseus. Every time he's talked about in the third person, the narrator calls him God-like Odysseus. And so like, if you are referred to as godlike, that's going to go to your head and you're going to start thinking that you can compete with the gods and you can outsmart and outmaneuver the gods. And you that arrogance, while earned in a lot of ways based on what he did in Troy, it has consequences. Your pride go before the fall. And so like he was so prideful that he tricked Polyphemus and then revealed himself. And this 20 year odyssey are the consequences of that pride. And like all of that, like deep characterization of Odysseus was just like yanked right out of there because Polyphemus couldn't talk and they couldn't like have that interaction, which is a choice that Christopher Nolan made. And I don't like it.
Speaker: Mm i but yeah I agree with you that a lot of the um stuff that was pulled out was those conversations ah of his journey back, the the people he was telling his story to. i think that worked out fine to be just telling it to Calypso. His part of the story was kind of on hold at that point. He was just we were telling the history of this is what happened to me up to this point. And so we got a lot more of the war that I don't know that we really got in the book. There was some references, but we we actually saw them do the full uh, uh, throughout, you know, the experience he went through there. And so by telling it to her and him remembering this stuff, you know, he had his little therapy session with, uh, Calypso before he left and got to really, um,
Speaker: grow ah into okay i've been through this i've had my time i need to get home to my family um and i think i'm ready and then he gets to you know go once he's remembers everything so i it worked narratively i did take away from what the book was trying to accomplish with certain parts of it
Speaker: i mentioned last week that i do like how Nolan told this story and how like it was not linear. um And then it all, you know, came together in the end. i do like how he did that. um At the end of the day, taking out the gods does not bother me too much, but that decision does affect a lot of the story um and it would have been interesting to see how he would have portrayed those characters um but for what he did and the story that he wanted to tell i really enjoyed this
Speaker: visual medium of it um We just need this and like Wrath of the Titans combined or something to really get the experience.
Speaker: So let me scroll back up here. um
Speaker: We talked about adding, you know, a little bit of the Iliad with the Chori scenes. And last week we talked a lot about how it was his PTSD. um I really liked that. I liked seeing the Trozen Horse. I mean, even outside of talking about Odysseus, the Trozen Horse is a very iconic character.
Speaker: a Greek mythology item um so it was you know all the whole scene with them inside the Trojan horse and then the character of Sinan everything that you know how that is where this whole journey comes from is his PDST from the Trojan War so I really enjoyed seeing those scenes included And it was really, ah again, that hubris and like i may I came up with this idea and it was brilliant, but it got all these people hurt. And that's where he's struggling to come to terms with the fact that I killed so many people through my actions in this war, both my men, both the people in Troy. And I burnt what is known, what is so civilization at this point, basically to the ground there. the world is going to have to rebuild from this and i'm not sure i want to be a part of it as the any have any part of that because i'm the problem right now yeah i mean the and we talked about this last week too how this is you know the odyssey chris's version christopher's version And so the the Odysseus in this film, I think, is this wholly separate character from the Odysseus in the Odyssey translation that I listened to, like the the book version, right? And so with all that being said, like,
Speaker: a lot of these changes make sense and like the i like the flow of the movie like you were saying sarah day like how it goes back and forth and you should get to see telemachus and it uh antinous and you're back with odysseus and like back in time and then on calypso's island like all of that really really worked for me i liked so getting to see all these different bits and pieces all like how we are flashing back all the way back to troy and then now we're with polyphemus and now we're with calypso and like that all really worked for me and i really liked that storytelling and how nolan did it um in the book it was well in my translation i wanted to find like the most like
Speaker: old head translation that I could like that had like these and thousand like very old fashioned language because I want i I felt like that would give me like the most like natural experience of like how the Odyssey was originally written but that choice that I made made it kind of confusing to follow at times because it was, and ultimately this is an epic poem. So it is poetry and it's repetitive. And there's these things that get said over and over again, which I liked, but then it was like, okay, I can tune out because this is being repeated, but when do I have to lock back in because we're getting new information? And so I liked how the film was like,
Speaker: also going back in time and retelling the same thing with a new layer of perspective that odysseus was getting as he's getting his memories back um one thing i i this is back a little bit to cast stuff but uh one thing i kind of wish they'd done was um give us a younger actor or you know you have to do something to make the characters look younger when it was 20 years ago versus the today the only thing they did for matt damon was give him that graying beard and the bigger beard. And I was like, this looks like the guy hasn't aged at all, just grew a beard. um And I wish they'd like because in the book they talk about how he looks him and Telemachus are so similar looking at that age. I wish they hadd took in Tom Holland's body and like did the CGI of putting Matt Damon's younger face on that or, you know took some old footage of him and made it look like he was 20 years younger for some of those scenes like at the at the war um draft and things like that, where you've got these moments happening earlier. i was took it out of it because I'm like, well, Anne Hathaway looks the same. He looks as Matt Damon looks the same. These people don't look like they age 20 years in this time frame.
Speaker: yeah I will say that I think John Leguizamo's de-aging was good. um he definitely I could tell the difference between his younger self and older self.
Speaker: Yeah. yeah So they did some of it, but I just felt like it wasn't enough to give it that feeling. yeah Yeah, that puppy looked like you know they they really CGI'd that into a younger looking dog right there.
Speaker: I don't know dogs that well, I thought that was two different breeds of dog. Like I was like, that it that is not the same dog. Like, and obviously it's not going to be the same dog cause the puppy's not going to grow. Like I duh, but like, I'm like, that's, that's not the same type of dog, but whatever. It doesn't matter.
Speaker: But yeah, I hadn't even thought about that, but yeah, like this is supposed to be like from the time. He leaves Ithaca to the time he gets back to Ithaca. It's supposed to be 20 years. It's like 10 years of the Trojan War and then another 10-ish years like through the ah the actual Odyssey getting home. like Yeah, there should have been more done to show that passage of time other than him just growing out his hair. Because his hair didn't even grow out that much also. Yeah.
Speaker: These are hard years too. That's war. That's, you know, that puts a toll on people. That's time being adrift at sea. That puts a toll on you. Your skin gets rough. Your your body changes in war and in sea travel and, you know, 10 years of being on the sea. So, well um ah yeah.
Speaker: And we talked about like the set of Calypso's Island. There's no shade there, girl. no Bro should be either sunburnt to heck and back or super, super tan.
Speaker: But he should not still be the same level of pale he was when he left Ithaca and his palace that he was living in. you have to have a comment from Calypso of, you know, I used my godly powers to protect you. Right. some Something, you know, but like, yeah, there he should look different. Well, and that's where like...
Speaker: not to keep you know sitting on my high horse of the gods, but like having Athena, because Athena is said explicitly to make him look taller and younger and more fit when he returns to Ithaca. And she like is able to change his appearance where he looked like, yeah, he like changes his face so he looks like a totally different person when he's the beggar. But then also when he reveals himself, all of a sudden, bros got an instant glow up from a goddess.
Speaker: And he does she does the same thing to ah to Penelope, I think, at one point. Yes, and makes Penelope more beautiful. Yes, and Telemachus gets a glow up. like when you Again, like when you take the gods and the magic out of the story, youre you know you lose some of that. You lose plot armor.
Speaker: yeah You lose the plot armor, yeah. And then, yeah, like the costuming and the makeup, like yeah, I wish they had done ah at least a little something to make him look Like he actually aged 20 years or take Matt Damon as he is and then make him look somehow 20 years younger. Like a little something would have been cool, but whatever.
Speaker: Not that serious. I'm more upset about Polyphemus and the nobody joke not being there than Odysseus looking like he hasn't aged a day in 20 years. The not aging makes it feel like a play to me. It makes it feel like this is a stage performance that people you know showed over time. And so you could interpret this that way a little bit of like this has always been has been done that way in the past. This is how it's been performed. And you could interpret it as this could be that.
Speaker: So after the Trojan War, Odysseus and his men decide not to follow Agamemnon and take their own route because they've followed him long enough.
Speaker: And that's kind of the first clue that he's like feeling guilt over fighting this war and killing these people for Agamemnon. um And then that's where, you know, our journey and our odyssey take place because they keep getting hit by these trials. Mm-hmm.
Speaker: Sorry, I want to pause. That's really interesting that that was your interpretation of that moment. Because I took that as, okay, we're finally getting some of his hubris coming out. We're like, I don't need to use the tried and true way to get home. I can do my own thing and we'll beat him home. That's where I was focused on in that moment. But I like that interpretation of going with the veteran PTSD motif and theme of this film that he was like, I can't keep following this guy. Like, I don't want to do that anymore. Like, I like that. Well, and I think that's what makes Christopher Nolan such a genius is that like, we can have these two interpretations of this film. And they're both there. I feel like those are both there. Yeah. And like you being like into the Greek mythology and the Greek gods and like wanting to go that path and like, like still having the gods in your mind when you're watching this movie
Speaker: And then like, I think Chris and I are more on the, um it's a PTSD story of him just trying to get home. And it's just little bit more. Saving Private Odysseus. Yeah. Literally. There was, saw another reel of him. They were like, have you seen the memes of you? Like you're always in these movies about trying to get home. I heard that, yeah. Saving Private Ryan, Interstellar, The Martian, and now The Odyssey. Yeah.
Speaker: He just has to keep getting lost and people keep having to find him.
Speaker: get a map bro and there's one that was saying that the movie is also just the same thing as finding nemo it's literally a son and a dad trying to find each other um i think like anne hathaway was in that clip yeah yeah she was the one they were telling it to um obviously our algorithms know what books we're covering on the podcast think that one's just everywhere right now but um Somebody better than me, Jordan, maybe can you go through the different um like trials they go through? Because I'm not going to remember the order that they're in.
Speaker: Oh, me neither. um but There's I mean, like there's one so many of them kind of get combined to in the movies like the Lotus Eaters was set in the book was a separate place.
Speaker: And then in the movie, it just became part of like Calypso's like wilds like to keep him there with her. um the way that the the fight with the giants in the forest where like the trees were moving the last dragonian giants that was a little ambiguous like you could see there they made some references that felt like they were giants like the comment of if that's a kid and then they looked kind of big but it kind of felt a little ambiguous like what what is going on here So that was percy jackson saving me well like a like i had listened to the odyssey so i knew that the last straonians were there and then it was Percy Jackson saving me because me because in book two, Sea of Monsters. when he first fights them in the dodgeball scene that we didn't get in the show that I'm upset about, he they he talks about them talking like they're Canadian and they have these like North, Northern accents that he's like, this you don't sound like you're from New York and they sound Canadian and then it gets cold. And so I was like, oh, the snow is falling and these are giants. It's the last dragonians. And like Percy Jackson put that together for me. but like but that that i thought that that and cersei were happening on the same island because the way he's like turn to port and follow the island we'll just land somewhere else i'm like why why are these on the same island like again i get it for like we don't have supplies we need food like i understand that part of it but like again those were supposed to be two separate things i thought i felt so there's that um
Speaker: I wish we had gotten more time Cersei. like it definitely was fine that it all got shrunk down to just like the one interaction the one conversation but like she's such a fascinating character to me and like in the odyssey and then her the interpretation of her in percy jackson both the book and now the show and then like the i think it's madeline miller wrote or not no there's a famous like cersei book that's been going around book talk for the within the last of years i was about to ask if you had read that yet
Speaker: I have not, but like Cersei is just such an interesting character where like through the modern like lenses of feminism, she's gotten a lot of different interpretations recently. Same thing kind of like how Medusa is like is has been reinterpreted and re understood.
Speaker: So I wish we had gotten more time with that character, especially because that performance from Samantha Morton, I thought was incredible. And so like, I wish there was more time spent there. But because they also in the book, they are at Circe's Island, she tells them to go to Hades, and then they come back there.
Speaker: Like they go back to Circe's Island afterwards to like, you know, and that's when she tells them, you know, here's what's going to happen. You got to do Scylla and Charybdis. You're going to see, you know, ah the sun god's cattle. Like, that, those are two separate instances.
Speaker: um So, yeah. then Polyphemus. Yeah, Polyphemus, which we've already talked about that, so I'm not going Because the underworld is the last one in the movie, right?
Speaker: They don't, that's when they die? The underworld, No, the underworld, they get out of the underworld and they go to, then they do the sirens, which I wish they had zoomed. I'm going to have to see this movie five more times.
Speaker: Well, because the sirens were so fast, which also bothered me. It was very fast. It was very fast and you didn't even get to see what they looked like. It just was like, maybe those are women. They were definitely naked ladies on some rocks. Yeah. But like it was also ambiguous. Yeah, they look like they just could have been just blob bodies, too, of just a woman's head on a blob body, too. Mostly it was about focusing the way that Matt Damon was performing. That was mostly what mattered. The way he was jerking around and wanted so badly to be free was the important part of that. The sirens were just a vessel for Matt Damon to put on a master class.
Speaker: um But yeah, so that and then they go to the island of the sun god where he has his cattle and then that's when his men um eat the cow that he he and the gods, well in the book, the gods, Cersei explicitly told them don't eat this or you're going to die and they do it anyways.
Speaker: And then they set sail and Poseidon blows up their ship. And it felt like, you know, it's a three hour movie and there was so much to happen in this. And yet I still feel like we were rushing to get through all of this footage and the scenery. i kind of wonder what does the uncut version of this look like? Is there a six or 10 hour movie of this that they could, they could release someday? Well, that's why I was like last week, I'm like, I would love to see a TV show. Like we we say it all the time about running the TV show for a book, but like I liked what he did for this film, but I would love to see an actual interpretation of the Odyssey as a TV show. yeah um I also want to mention while we're talking about the cows, I just love the line where he finds them and he's like, did you think whispering was going to hide you from the gods? And he was like, I was trying to hide from you. And then he's like,
Speaker: you're all to die. oh Yeah. Yeah. Freaking told you guys. Yeah. And that's when I saw like that cockiness come out. Like I, I'm not saying he wasn't cocky throughout the film and the story. um There's definitely that sign. I remember one point being like, man, this guy's a real asshole. But um for the most part, like it is a lot less, he's a lot less cocky. I think in the film than he is in the book.
Speaker: I think he was pretty consistent in certain ways. Like i feel like he always in the book and the film always wanted, he was cocky, but he always cared about people no matter who his people, he wanted to protect them. And that's why he tried to tell his people not to do that. you know, he was, he was always trying to be a good leader, but his failings is where people got hurt. And that's why this interpretation kind of works so well is because he tried and failed to be the man he thought he could be.
Speaker: Um, anything else you guys want to talk about those trials where he loses all his men before we move on to kind of like what's happening in Ithaca? They kind of I feel like they did hit all of the beats. There's just none of them got as much time as I wish they would have gotten.
Speaker: Well, it's back to time and wanting to see this as a show. Well, and I also like the priorities to like, again, like Chris's version is the war hero PTSD. So you have to show the war that gave them. the PTSD and the reputation of being Odysseus, Agamemnon's general who fought at Troy. Like you have to show that in order for that through line to make sense. Right. In Jordan's version, all of the Iliad, like the mini Iliad movie that we got in the middle is cut so that we can spend more time in the Odyssey.
Speaker: yeah And like what actually happens throughout the the Odyssey story. But see, that makes me want like an Iliad show so much more. Like to get the Iliad, you know, and do all that and then go to the Odyssey and do all that. And like even the suitors could be going on through all three, four, whatever seasons, you know, like and getting some more drama there just to carry that through. then, you know, we can see Telemachus grow up in these 20 years. But yeah, um yeah i The more we talk about it, like I went in being like, yeah, I love this film. But like the more we talk about it, yeah, man, I really want a TV show.
Speaker: And that's so crazy because I came in like, oh, this movie was like a five or a six. Like this this is kind of sucked. I didn't like it. And now i'm like, you know what? You guys have made some good points. like and And I never hated it. I want to go on record. I never hated this movie. It just, again, I was disappointed because I wanted – like Chanel Percy Jackson. I wanted like high end top shelf version of the Percy Jackson story that I knew and loved with the gods, with the magic, with the whimsy and the fantastical elements. And I didn't get that. And I was disappointed, yeah,
Speaker: I didn't, and I was so focused on being disappointed that I didn't appreciate the like PTSD war hero line. And I actually do like that. I think that that has something to say. and like the talking about um how his actions have affected civilization. And like now, like he is the sea, the sea people who have come in and like attacked this other way. Like there's a lot of interesting stuff to talk about there, but I'm too busy talking about, they didn't make the nobody joke.
Speaker: But yeah, Do you guys think they could do a modern retelling of this like take you know don't worry about any of the the time of this like move it into modern time and try to retell the Odyssey with a modern war you know someone who's trying to get back you think there's ah a way to tell that story and look like in a serious manner through a TV show or movie do you think there's a good way to do that.
Speaker: It would have to be really different because it would have to be apocalyptic because we have FaceTime. So like how call Penelope up and be like, I'm coming home. Oops, I got stuck on this island. That could be the more interesting part of it I mean, what if he has no way to, you know, he he he can't call everybody else because the phones, but maybe he's working his way back somehow. I mean, you could, I don't know. I was just a thought I was having of like, they do tell old stories as retellings all the time. And so.
Speaker: I love a good modern retelling, but so if somebody could make that work, that would be really cool. Yeah. That's a really interesting question. Cause I'm like, there are so many modern retellings of the Odyssey or like, and like you were talking about like the cultural impact of like the hero's journey. And like you have, you know, you have to go through the trials and tribulations to get back home and like that homecoming story. Like there are so many movies and books that like do that. Like,
Speaker: Follows the structure somewhat. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So like to have it be like, but like be, again, for me, like my love and my priority would be to have like the gods and magic and stuff. And so I don't know that you could do a modern retelling that is still going to be true to the source material because like,
Speaker: What are you going to substitute for Scylla and Charybdis? What are you going to substitute for the Lastragonian giants and, you know, Polyphemus the Cyclops? You know what I mean? Well, that's what I was thinking. it's a modern retelling, i think it would be kind of like the Chris Nolan where he's talking about ps PTSD, but this would be about temptation.
Speaker: And, like like, it would be the guy trying to get back to his wife but getting, like, the sirens, Calypso, Cersei. And, like, I don't know how you would combine the men in there. But I think a lot of it would be that temptation because Odysseus really failed at all that temptation.
Speaker: sure true And you could probably find things in modern society that you could play put in place of some of those tribulations you went through and you know things that could substitute. Or even you you could throw some monsters and stuff in there. You could make it still somewhat fantasy, but with a modern twist on it.
Speaker: I think that'd be interesting. I mean, as always, like, and I've said this for pretty much every property that we've done, especially like a fantasy-ish or fantasy-adjacent property, I just want somebody to literally make a scene-by-scene translation from book to screen. I just want somebody to take the script of the book that is already written and do it line for line. That's all I've that's all i've ever asked for. I don't think that's too much to ask, but that's like like like that's what I want. And so that's what I want for the Odyssey. That's what I want for the Iliad, the Hunger Games, Percy Jackson, Harry Potter, literally anything and everything you can think of. I just want the book to be taken line for line, scene for scene, and translated to the screen. And I think if we ever got that for the Odyssey, it would be the greatest film or show ever created because this story has such lasting power culturally. And so I think if we ever were to accomplish a true adaptation, a genuine, faithful adaptation of this story, there would be nothing on God's green earth that could ever top it.
Speaker: I think we just came up with our new ah tagline for the website. ah I just want it to be scene for scene like the book. um i did a quick Google search on are there any like modern retellings of the Odyssey set in our time? And i think the one most well known would be oh Brother Where Art Thou um is a retelling of it there's also ulysses um by james joy joyce um the return which is a film from 2024 with ralph oh yeah yep and then there's some stuff out there 2001 a space odyssey isn't that movie the return is literally just like when he gets back to ithaca and he defeats the suitors it's a whole movie like just of
Speaker: I haven't seen it. This film focuses on the emotional homecoming as a traumatized veteran returning to a fractured and dangerous home. 2001 A Space Odyssey has nothing to do with the Odyssey.
Speaker: but It just shares the word in the title. Yeah. the oh It says, um the sci-fi classic reimagines the voyage through space where astronauts battle a modern one-eyed monster.
Speaker: yeah The HAL 9000 computer to reach Earth. I've read it. not at all so That's weak sauce. sauce. It's a good book and a good film, but it's that's not it's not an Odyssey story.
Speaker: Oh, and then they they talk about um Epic the Musical, but that's not really a modern retelling. It's just... No, that's just a musical version. It's a musical version. Which will be amazing. so Yeah, yeah. Because they're making an animated show now. which is yeah Yes, yeah. I'm very excited. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker: ah But yeah, I forgot about a Brother, Where Art There. So like yeah, like you can you could definitely have like a modern retelling. I think we've kind of covered Odysseus's journey up to his return to Ithaca. So let's go back and talk about Penelope and Telemachus and like what's what's going on um with them until Odysseus's return um with like all the suitors and his trip to, um I forget where he goes, but to see. Pylos and Sparta.
Speaker: So I think his, I mean, he goes, most of the story beats of of the, everything happening in Ithaca seem to be pretty ah on the book. they pretty spot on. I feel like they, you know, how did they change a few things maybe, but it was mostly like most of that stuff had to happen or to get them where they needed to be all those characters.
Speaker: um They planned his death. They did all the stuff to try and get rid of Temeculous and he's still, you know, they were able to, so circumvent that a little bit like with this case with Odysseus showing up and helping him but ultimately i feel like most of the things that happened there they rushed through the part with the whole weaving thing the death shroud and how she you know that's supposed to have happened earlier on and then she had to finish it and then she had to come up with some other way to avoid marrying one of them so they rushed through that but that didn't bother me it just seemed like it was trying him trying to manipulate her at that point and it made for a good
Speaker: um little bit of tension there you almost knew were scared for her in that moment of uh-oh what is this suitor um planning to do and you know it kind of added to the gravitas of that robert patterson's uh performance there of like yikes i'm a little scared of this guy in this moment Yeah, I definitely was scared that he was going to attempt to assault her in that moment. um So yeah, i I agree. I think pretty much everything was spot on. Most of the stuff, again, me, myself personally, my problems that bothered me was no Athena interacting with Telemachus and no Athena you know acting as mentor and like pulling the strings and protecting him. like
Speaker: But again, because she was cut out of everything else, it was like, all right, like it's consistent. You know, i don't like it, but it's consistent. All right. So, yeah, they meet up. They meet up with Odysseus. He saves them from that temple. They escape and they escape back to Ithaca. And he thinks he's just his beggar. But then when they return to the castle,
Speaker: he finally sees the dog and gives him one last goodbye before the dog. He whacks his little tail one time and then passes. And that's when Telemachus realizes that this is...
Speaker: Odysseus and the dog was waiting for him to come home. he has finally come home. And they talk about, you know, where they, the he first met the dog is where he needs to be buried.
Speaker: um And he's like, Oh, that's, that's where you first met him because you, you Fias what's his name? John Leguizamo. He had mentioned the dog story. So he puts two and two together. They have a small emotional reunion, but they you know they can't do much because they can't give away Odysseus' identity. um And then that's when we arrive to the hall and we have the final challenge.
Speaker: And we see all the suitors trying to string the bow. And then finally, i think it's probably my favorite moment of the film, is Odysseus stringing the bow and flicking the string and And he does that shit easy to like all you do is are struggling with it. And he's just like, so you did anybody see the moment where I mean, I felt like it wasn't a significant it should have been, but the brick was pulled out of the floor by the, um, the blind, uh, uh,
Speaker: uh cow herder one point i was pretty sure that was i was pretty sure stringing the bow is a trick he uses the pressure from that spot on the ground to get the leverage he needs to be able to do it and nobody else would know to do that in that moment so i thought that was going to come into play but they never show him actually doing that but the brick was removed and then i felt like it just never comes back up again i want to pay attention to that on my rewatch Yeah, because there's I mean, there's always been to my, like you know, very limited just me knowledge like of is like is the bow like magic has like Athena blessed it or like he's, you know, has Zeus interfered has one of the gods interfered to make it like a sword in the stone situation where only Odysseus could ever or Thor like with Mjolnir like
Speaker: is it like magic that only Odysseus could string this bow? Or is it truly just that he's, you know, like I said, in my ah translation, he's godlike and he, he alone is like that powerful and strong that he can do it. Or is it like some sort of like magic thing? So I, that's interesting. Like, again, like taking the magic and the mythos out of it to have something like that, like,
Speaker: When he stretches the bow, he does the stuff that like a lot of those sorts of things. If you're a skilled bowman, you know, my bow needs to be stretched the other direction first and then it can bend back. Right. So when, you know, seeing the way he looks at it and inspects it, you're like, this is an archer. He knows to look at his bow before he does anything with it. Make sure there's no cracks. Make sure there's nothing.
Speaker: that's going to be damaged over time looks like it's been polished up well i bent it ah back the other direction a bit to make sure it had the flexibility i needed and then i was able to pull it back the other way and clip it um it's you know a fairly common archery thing so i mean i would think that someone if there was a archer who had know was just there's a lot of bigger guys in that room you'd think one of them if they knew archery could probably do it but since nobody knew his bow very well could have just been he knew the technique and it was just a trick but uh that he was able to devise and that's what i feel like makes the most sense is that he had a method that was a trick to everybody else was a way for him to show off in front of his men and that i can string this bow and nobody else can and then it was also assigned ah for his wife but uh yeah i'm thinking about it too like these especially like
Speaker: Antinous and like his ilk. These were all children when he left and they have no battle or fighting experience. And they've been living on his lands and his wealth and his food so they've never had to actually go out and hunt for themselves they've never been in war and had to fight and learn how to string a bow so like conceptually they may have they might like know okay you have to get the string the hook over the edge but like they've never actually had to do it probably and even if they have like it's god like odysseus's bow like you're not going to be able to string the bow
Speaker: Well, and you know, with Telemachus not being able to do it, his dad wasn't there to teach him. So he didn't even get, you know, like, I'm sure o Odysseus would teach him how to string the bow.
Speaker: Totally. But all the other guys' dads were with Odysseus and Troy and died. So they didn't get like, you know, to be to be fair to them, like they didn't stand a chance. Like even even without like the magic part of it, there was no way they were ever gonna be able to do it because their dads were all dead in Troy and couldn't teach them. And they never had to learn for themselves because they've been living off of somebody else's wealth the entire time. So they like they never had to learn that skill for themselves. Yeah.
Speaker: We did see that Telemachus got taught how to shoot by when he's talking with John Bernthal when they're doing the um the shooting of the pigeons or whatever. We know that he knows how to shoot, but apparently, you know, it's probably a much lower ah strength bow. And it was just a you know basic hunting situation, not, you know, a war bow that he had to string.
Speaker: And, you know, Tom Holland's a lot smaller than... matt damon And so you can see that. i mean, he's, he's strong. He's, you know, he's Spider-Man fit. So he, you know, i was like, yeah, if anybody could do it, Spider-Man could do it, but nope.
Speaker: Nope. Yep. And then they battle and he wins and there's the guy that gets trapped upstairs and he's axing a, you know, hole in the floor to try to throw weapons down there. And that's where we get a fun little, um,
Speaker: scene with robert pattinson being such a coward that he is like grab the spear grab the shield but hiding himself and then uh telemachus goes upstairs to fight that guy that's throwing the the battles and so that's another you know um added scene for him to do something and make him ah give him a purpose right and i was a little worried for him through that scene he got stabbed he was he was hurt i was like okay are they changing something here or what's happening Well, and i liked I liked that change too because like the political side of it, like again, in the book, it gets washed away by Athena. like Athena appears in front of everybody at the end like because all the families of the suitors who were killed are like, we want revenge. like He killed our sons, or our uncles, whatever, whatever. lyn and she' is like And she's like, you're going to forget about this. You're going to move on and it's going to be fine.
Speaker: And she like speaks as a god. like She's like, no, you're done. And so because, again, you take the gods out, like, there are supposed to be consequences in this world if you have a guest in your home and then you kill that guest. Like, Telemachus, like, they they did a good job of explaining, like, I'll be exiled, like, I'll never be able to be home and blah, blah, blah. And so for Odysseus to tell him, you know, you can't fight with me, you can't kill any of them or you'll be exiled, like, but he still had, like,
Speaker: that guy was a slave belonging to the house of Odysseus and so like if he kills that guy then it's like who cares it's whatever but I liked that like political wrinkle in there where like why Telemachus can't be down fighting with his father and like helping him instead of leaving it to be one versus 40 or however many dudes it was I think if you're the king in your own house and you kill some people in your own house, you probably should get you know, a pass since, you know, the law is you, but. Well, and I, this is more like a cultural thing question that I have with, like, I'd have to do research of the Odyssey, but like, yes, like I understand like when strangers come and beggars and whoever, like you're supposed to show them hospitality and care for them and feed and clothe them and give them gifts. Like I understand all that, but at what point does,
Speaker: the like duty fall on the guest to be a good guest and know when to leave and know know when you've outstaged your welcome. And like, you can't like, cause it's, this has been at least what three or three years of the suitors being in the house. least three but At least three years of every single day, eating the food, drinking the wine, probably assaulting the women. It's not said in the movie, but it's, it's said in the book.
Speaker: like you guys have been doing this literally every day for three years straight at what point do you have a responsibility to be a good guest and get out of here and so like that like i want it i would want to do research on that i'm probably well but i'd like to know like these guys aren't like their goal isn't to be a good guest like their goal is to force her into a marriage with one of them yes so but that's what i'm saying though like if the laws of zoo say that you have to let people into your home is there another like sub law of zoos like a second amendment of the law of zoo saying that you can't just take advantage of people's forced hospitality and kindness indefinitely right athena's law was get out amen right any final thoughts before we sign off
Speaker: This is a fun movie, a fun book. I'm glad I finally read it. I did not read it back in and school or anything. So I was excited to get a chance to read it. And I definitely want to read the Iliad still. And, you know, I do enjoy Greek myth, so I'll probably keep going on this train a little bit. And yeah, I can't wait to watch it again. Probably won't be until it comes out on DVD or whatever. But it was really good. And I'm excited for another screening.
Speaker: Well, we're going to continue our Greek coverage in the next few months here with season three of Percy Jackson. Yeah, i'll go back and check out all our Percy Jackson episodes if you want more Greek mythology. and i don't i don't have any thoughts. that You guys have convinced me and like distinguishing that this is Christopher Nolan's interpretation of the story and not a faithful adaptation. Like,
Speaker: This version of Odysseus and the Odyssey is really good for what it's trying to do. like It accomplishes its goal of telling a story about a veteran and a person with PTSD feeling guilt and shame of what they've done that they they had to do in the moment and his journey to get home with a couple of mythological creatures, monsters thrown in there and some some witches and some goddesses.
Speaker: So that's that. Is it a faithful adaptation of Homer's The Odyssey? No, not in my opinion, or at least not a very faithful one. So, well, yeah, I mean, when you take out the gods that, you know, that does it right there. Yeah.
Speaker: All right. Well, everybody, thanks for listening. If you have any thoughts on this adaptation, please write in and we will see you next week.
Speaker: Bye. Bye. That's a wrap for this week's episode of Book Watch. We hope you enjoy diving into the world of page-to-screen adaptations with us. If you love this episode, don't forget to subscribe, leave a rating and review wherever you listen, and share it with a fellow book and movie lover.
Speaker: If you prefer to watch along, you can check out the show on YouTube, youtube.com slash at bookwatchpodcast. You can follow the show on Instagram at bookwatchpodcast. And you can follow me, Sarah Day, on Instagram at captain.mcd. That's M-C-D-E-E.
Speaker: And you can follow me, Jordan, on Instagram at jjcorrito. That's C-A-R-R-I-D-O. And you can follow me, Chris, at cyborgnight404. That's night with a K.
Speaker: You can also join the conversation in the Book Watch Lounge on Facebook at facebook.com slash groups slash bookwatch lounge. Have a favorite adaptation you'd like us to cover or a book you think deserves a screen adaptation or just want to let us know of any feedback. Send us an email at bookwatchpodcast at gmail.com.
Speaker: Until next time. Keep reading. Keep watching. And we'll see you next week.
