Transcript
Speaker: Everybody want to be right. But most the time it's wrong. We're going to get into it. Let's get it.
Speaker: Welcome. First of all, welcome. This is Unsolicited Perspectives. I am your host, Bruce Anthony, here to lead the conversation in important events and topics that are shaping today's society. so Join the conversation and follow us wherever you get your audio podcasts. Subscribe to our YouTube channel for our video podcasts, YouTube exclusive content, and our YouTube membership.
Speaker: Rate, review, like, comment, share. Share it with your friends, share with your family, hell, even share with your enemies. On today's episode, it's the Sibling Happy Hour. I'm here with my sis, Jay Andrea. We're going be dilly-dadding a little bit. Then we're going talking about the Lindsay Clancy story and living together apart.
Speaker: What is it? We're going get into it. But that's enough of the intro. Let's get to the show.
Speaker: What up, sis? What up, brother? I can't call it. I can't call it. You know, every time we start the show and I record the opening and then that intro, by the time I get to...
Speaker: Audio podcast. Right. I start getting cotton mouth. Yeah. And it's a short, it lasts just a short little bit because once I'm done filming that part, I take a little swig. i always take a little swig and then we get right back to it.
Speaker: You do. You take your little swig. and You think it's nerves. Yes. I'm not nervous doing this show anymore. so Well, maybe you're not ah aware of it. Like, there might be some, like, unconscious pressure you're putting on yourself, maybe. Because I know that I get... That's every day.
Speaker: That's not unconscious.
Speaker: That's just life. that That's just life, period. That's everyday life. soon as I wake up in the morning, man, why is my shoulders so tight? It's the pressure that I'm putting on myself is weighing down on my shoulders and my neck. Yes, no. Yes, because mine is caused by nerves. Every time I have to like sing in public, I get the worst dry mouth. It's so bad, like my lip sticks to my teeth.
Speaker: It's that bad. And I'm like, why can't this happen after? Yeah. after I perform. Like, why does it have to happen right before I perform? Like, why can't it be post-nerves? I don't think that's a thing.
Speaker: post no I guess post-nerves are if you're expecting some type of grade or reaction to whatever it is you just did, then yes, it would be post-nerves. I used to get Cottonmouth before every game that I played.
Speaker: yeah Every single one. And then another thing, the cat mouth is one thing, right? m But then my legs will get super heavy. Oh. Before every basketball game. I'm out there on the start. I'm out there on the, you know, we around the circle, jump ball about to happen.
Speaker: I can't talk out my mouth. And I'm like, yo, my legs is not going to move. Every time. And I didn't realize until later that was nerves. Yeah.
Speaker: I get ah anxiety toots. yeah yeah so And that's just the that's just the reality. Listen, at ah my stomach don't quite listen.
Speaker: Hey, I get i get stressed toots. And I'm like, and oh, my God. Oh, Lord. This is disgusting. Well, farts are a natural part of life. And for anybody out there who has generalized anxiety, which means you just anxious all the time, right? Just in general. That's how I take that. I don't know if that's like the clinical definition, but that's how I take it. And that results in stress toots.
Speaker: the Listen, I'm here to let you know you're not alone. i I wasn't, to ah well, tubes are disgusting, but I'm about to make it even more disgusting. Okay. Because story time.
Speaker: My last serious girlfriend, we went away somewhere. And unbeknownst to her, and I guess to myself.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: The first night that we went away, because we went away for a weekend, the first night at the end of the night, I knew I was going to break up with her. Something had happened. I'm not going to get specific or explicit, but something had happened.
Speaker: e and and And I knew. now it still took me like a month later to finally go through with it. But here's the disgusting part. er I had diarrhea for the rest of the
Speaker: The night you decided to break up with her or the night you actually did? No, the night, well, the night that my body told me that I was going to. Because remember, subconsciously or consciously, I still don't know that I'm going to break up with her.
Speaker: ah Subconsciously, my body knows, hey, Bruce, you out this situation. Like, you're done. Whether or not you want to admit it to yourself, You are done.
Speaker: And so my body reacted. I think it's the stress of knowing. Because, again, we've talked about this on a prior show, how men don't like to break up with women. It's like the stress of knowing, of coming to the realization before she does that y'all need to break up. And you got to figure out how you're going to maintain your good guy persona. Right.
Speaker: While simultaneously being horrible so that she'll break up with you. ah No, i stopped that in my 30s. Like said, it was subconscious.
Speaker: I knew things just weren't right. I didn't know at that moment. I had subconsciously decided I'm out. I thought you were going to say you knew that night that you were going to break up with this person because she got that fear. No, no, no. I'm not. Look, hey, look. I'm not that horrible a person. I would have been like, to hell with you. Yeah, no, come on. No, no, no. That's what I would have said in response to that. That whole night, my stomach was, I mean, I'm up the entire night running to the bathroom.
Speaker: Because i didn't sleep. I did not sleep that night. And so that's what I know. If ever, I don't have anxiety toots, but I have anxiety diarrhea. I know when my stomach ate right. How is my thing worse than your thing? No, I said mine was, I said, I'm about to get disgusting.
Speaker: Okay, okay. Because I was about to say. Sometimes you'll be listening to me. No, sometimes you act like my thing is worse than your thing, and it's not.
Speaker: No, here's your here's your Leo trait. Okay.
Speaker: Leo trait. It's not everything's about you. All right. In this instance, it is. No. Okay. Okay. Anyway, talking about toots, let's talk about mouth toots.
Speaker: what I don't know. was just trying to come up with a segue, and it wasn't good. You were trying. Yeah, it wasn't good. But I honestly, appreciate the effort. Yeah, you know, I tried, ladies gentlemen. I tried. Okay, so...
Speaker: Fat Joe, one of my favorite rappers. Look, you're not going to hear me say a lot of negative things about Fat Joe. It's going to be just basically one thing.
Speaker: His stories be a little extra. He be putting a little extra on his stories. Okay. Yeah, he be talking. Putting 20 on 10. No, no, he be putting 100 10.
Speaker: Oh, wow. They be based in real fact, but it's like everybody is, I had a hundred dudes with me. Yeah. you really have a hundred dudes or did you have like 15? So big he's he's a cinematic storyteller. That's what I call it. So you ever know like notice like how some movies are based on a true story, but obviously they take artistic license to make it cinematic. So... I like to call those people cinematic storytellers. Can you believe everything they say? No, you should take it with a grain of salt. But listen, what's the actual story being told? That he got into a fight and listen this happened. Okay, yeah got it.
Speaker: yeah So Fat Joe was on the Joe Budden podcast recently, and there's been some controversy that's been sparked up. This controversy has happened to Fat Joe recently. Over the last five or six years, because I don't remember there being a controversy back in the 90s when he started to blow up. Because, like, Flo Joe came out in, like, 91. So that's how long Fat Joe has been in the rap gang. Yeah.
Speaker: And it's his constant use of the N-word. Yes. And for those that don't know who Fat Joe is, Fat Joe is a Puerto Rican rapper from the Bronx. Leader of the Terror Squad, Don Cartagena, is a true...
Speaker: former Gangsta in the street. Like, when everybody in the rap game and everybody from New York saying, yeah, but Fat Joe was actually ah a real one. yeah And there's nobody saying, like, the stuff he was talking about was a lie.
Speaker: No. Fat Joe was for real, for real, like a close to a millionaire as a teenage kid selling crack cocaine to the community. Yes. Obese Joseph was out in these streets. Obese Joseph.
Speaker: You said you had some thoughts about yeah his constant use of the N-word, and i'm I'm curious to hear them. So i was I was in my 2000s bag like a week ago. And of course, in my rotation is some Terror Squad. Of course. Got to be. ah i Specifically, Take Me Home.
Speaker: Right? That's my jam. I love Remy Ma's verse on that. It's a great song. So... There was another song. It wasn't that one. It was another song. And it was like just the opening of him like getting hyped up before the song even starts. You know how they do a little ad lib at the beginning. It was so many N-bombs. And like i cringed every single time. And so here's the problem. And this is kind of people's response back in the day when this was an issue. Because it came up when J-Lo said it.
Speaker: Right. Yes. When J-Lo said it to I'm Real, I'm sorry i'm Real, written by Jai Roo, performed yeah with her and Jai Roo back in like 2001 or two, something like that.
Speaker: Yes. And it feels like the consensus is, and I don't agree with this at all, is that Puerto Rican plus New York equals Black. And that's not true. Like, it's just because you're Puerto Rican and from New York City does not mean you can say the end word. I don't care.
Speaker: I don't care that it's, oh, this is just how we talk, blah, blah. I do not give a full damn. You, Fat Joe, has not lived as a Black man in America. he is, he might be from the Black diaspora. I don't know. I don't know his his lineage, okay? But all I know is you have not lived the life or the experiences in totality right as a black man in america you have lived as a person of color in america but baby that's different because there's a difference between racism and anti-black racism it's two different things i it just annoys me that people like oh well they're puerto rican dominican cuban from new york so they say the n-word no
Speaker: no I don't care. i don't care if it's part of your lexicon. I don't care. i don't like... Fat Joe is not a Black man, so you don't get to say it. It really, really bothers me. It bothered me back in the day, but I love his music so much that I'll still be listening to it. But but it I just realized as I was listening to it, actually cut the song off because it bothered me that much.
Speaker: That's interesting. I have never... There are times where the N-word is said by certain people, and I cringe. Even some Black people. some black If Tim Scott, if I was walking oh in the mall in D.C., and Tim Scott walked past me and like, what up, N-word? I'd be like, mm, no. No, because you know it's a hard R yeah when he says it. Donalds. and byron donald Yeah.
Speaker: and No, we Black. It's Donalds. ah Donald's, yeah. And an interesting conversation, and and they expanded upon it in Joe Budden's podcast. But we do, some of us in the Black community, tend to give certain people a pass. Fat Joe has always gotten a pass. But when J-Lo said it, it was an issue. And the reason is, is because J-Lo seemed like she was cosplaying.
Speaker: Yeah. Like she was of the culture. Yes. Where Fat Joe has always been the the culture. And there is a difference between white Latino and black Latino.
Speaker: Yes. So. a Rosie Perez. Can say it. Okay. ah Laz Alonzo. I don't even know who that is. You know his face.
Speaker: Can say it. You know what I'm saying? These are black people who are Latino. Yeah. What about, what's my name? John Leguizamo. No.
Speaker: John Leguizamo is a white man. No, he's not. He's Puerto Rican. That's a... Puerto Rican is his nationality, and really it's not even his nationality because Puerto Rico is part of the United States. But you let's go with that. But his racial identity, that is a white man. Okay. And so this was an interesting conversation the Joe Budden podcast, who put that racial identity on him because he represents the... So it's not how they view themselves.
Speaker: It's how the world views them. Yes, because race is a social construct, not personal one. But then we then we run into a problem. Somebody like you, hu who sometimes, I know you, were at least half of a black woman, a quarter, something like that. definitely black, so.
Speaker: But somebody looking at you, right? Might think I'm mixed, some sort of mulatto. not black at all. I don't know that I've ever gotten not black at all. Didn't you get Asian when you were in Italy?
Speaker: No, no, no. They said Hawaiian. Oh, okay. No, i got black I got Asian actually at the doctor's office. But in my defense, it was during COVID. I had a mask on.
Speaker: Okay. Well, you got Hawaiian. Hawaiian is not Black. Polynesian are Black. So there you go. Somebody somebody could mistake you as not being Black. yeah And I know personally that you say that word.
Speaker: I do. I mean, I say it once a day, maybe even sometimes twice a day. okay People that are listening to this that know me personally, that don't know that about me, will probably be surprised. Like, really? yeah You do?
Speaker: Yes. Yes. I do. yeah Not around you. and We don't on this show. and ah Although it did happen one time. Oh, because it was it me? It slipped out? No, it was me.
Speaker: Oh, okay. And I also don't do it in, let's say, mixed company. That's what I'm talking about. Yes, I have a friend. I have a friend, a personal friend of mine for years, says it all the time, everywhere. I'm like, yo,
Speaker: Yes. Stop. i I also know someone like that. Yeah. i'm like, yo, stop. Like, what are you yeah right now? Don't don't be just yeah doing that that. Like, hey, man, recognize where we are. I don't care. I just did that voice. So, you know, exactly. yeah I'm surprised you're not saying the person I'm thinking of.
Speaker: ah Oh, that's your friend. No, it's a family member. It's a family member. I don't even know. We're going to do that off air. We're going to that off air. you're talking about. but you You will, and then you'll be like, oh, yeah. yeah um but and So I'm not offended by Fat Joe saying it. ah But I'm not the arbiter of who can say it and who can not say it. The fact of matter is everybody can say it if they want to.
Speaker: Just be prepared for the consequences that come once you say it. i I can see both sides of it, right? Like I can, it because it makes me cringe when he says it because he is not a Black man.
Speaker: But i also get that his proximity to Blackness and his proximity to the culture and his contributions to the culture has given him some sort of ubiquitous pass, which again, who is giving this pass out? But I feel like since he's been in the game for so long and been doing it for so long and really has not suffered any kind of real backlash for it, I feel like as a culture, we've accepted the fact that he says it. Not that we necessarily condone it or like it even, but we've accepted the fact that he says it.
Speaker: Because I'm still going listen to them jams. I mean, i'm a but I'm a Fat Joe fan. Like, I'm still going to listen. Huge Fat Joe fan. Yeah, I love Fat Joe and so I'm still going listen. Matter of fact, I'm such a big Fat Joe fan. When Pun was out and everybody was like, Pun is one, i was like, yeah, but But Fat Joe. like yeah like But on the low, like... Fat Joe. Fat Joe. that ever That's my man. Fat Joe. You can't tell me. Don Cartagena, I will listen to that. Matter of fact, after this, while I'm doing the editing of the show, I'm just let it ride. Because it's one of my favorite albums of all time. Period.
Speaker: Yeah. What did they, did they talk about it on the Joe Budden podcast? Look, they, I love Joe Budden. No, no, no, no. They did. I love the Joe Budden podcast, but it's five different voices speaking all at one time. There is no consensus. It's five different personalities. They were just all given their, very much like this. Just expect if it was me and you and then a duplicate version of me and you. What a nightmare. yeah No, I think that would be fantastic. Actually, I would love to be in my own company. It'd be funny. It'd be laughs.
Speaker: Four people with ADHD trying to have a conversation? don't know. ADHD conversations are the best. We have them all the time. That's what the whole Daily Dabbing is about. Doing it right now. Yeah. I was interested in Joe's take, though.
Speaker: ah joe was just Joe was pretty much like my take. It was was like, know, I don't think anything of it. He's not one of those people that i think anything of it. If a Ricky Martin and Jennifer Lopez, both Puerto Rican, both to me, white Puerto Rican, even though Fat Joe was more white than he is black. not I don't i don't i don't don't know. if you If you look at that brother, did I call him brother because it's Joe. is yeah you are you him are You are lighter skinned than Fat Joe is. So let's just point that out. think we're the same color. It's close, but no. Honestly,
Speaker: Joe and I could be siblings more than you and... Like, Joe and I look more like siblings than you and I. That's the whole point I was trying to make. Yeah, I see that. But also, i he's not a Black man. he just has a He just has a proximity to the culture, and he has contributed Yeah. To the culture. A great deal. A great deal. Whereas if you, you know, not that I hate throwing Ricky Martin's name out there because he's never said it, but like, oh, I don't know what his personal life is like. I'm not going to make it. But J-Lo, you can say J-Lo because J-Lo said J-Lo.
Speaker: Okay. She was a fly girl for a few years. Sure. I don't think her and Rosie even really got along like that, but. She doesn't... And then aside from her dating Diddy for a little bit in there... She was made in Manhattan. That's what I know her from. Yeah! Like, is is she she's not... She never... She rarely even plays Latina. Because made in America, she was Italian. out You know what? I don't want to detour because I want to end this segment because it's starting run long. However... No, not made in America.
Speaker: Yeah, it was made in Manhattan. maybe Yes. But... To me, she has the same issue that I have with The Rock. Rock don't ever... The Rock... Dwayne The Rock Johnson never plays a black man.
Speaker: Ever. And I don't think he's ever had a black love interest. Y'all can correct me if I'm wrong. There was a movie called Rampage hu where there was a black love interest, but he... was It was flirtatious. It was not anything physical.
Speaker: Just like, what was it? How did I get married? He did come Yeah, why did I get married too? He flirted. First of all, it's Janet Jackson. It's Janet Jackson. Miss Jackson, if you're nasty.
Speaker: No one's passing that escapade, okay? They're going to take it every time. So, but even then, i don't think they ever had like any physical contact. i don't even think they shook hands. No. Like...
Speaker: So, yeah, I think it's written into his contract. don't think it's that bad. They don't have touch any black person but Kevin Hart. So, ladies and gentlemen out there, we are... That's crazy what you just said. Ladies and gentlemen, there is no consensus to this. This is one... And you'll...
Speaker: ah find that the majority of this show today, there is no consensus. There is no right or wrong answer. It's just how people feel. And how I feel about Fat Joe is complete indifference. But that was interesting that you had being a huge Fat Joe fan like me, how you had an opposite reaction. And that's life.
Speaker: that's life
Speaker: So, Jay, let's talk about it. Lindsey Clancy. On July, on January 24th, 2023, in Massachusetts, Lindsey Clancy, who was a labor and delivery nurse, had her husband go out and pick up some food.
Speaker: And when he was gone, prosecutors say she strangled their three children. Cora was five, Dawson was three, Kaylin was eight months old.
Speaker: jesus She then tried to take her own life. She jumped out of a window trying to commit suicide, broke her spine, and is now paralyzed from the waist down.
Speaker: Three years later, we finally get a trial. And this month, the trial ended without an answer. The jury was deadlocked 11 to 1, leaning towards not guilty.
Speaker: So the judge declared a mistrial. And now we're left with a question this entire case has been wrestling with. Was this a mother who made a decision to unallow her children?
Speaker: Or was this a mother in a grip of a severe mental illness that nobody around her recognized until it was too late? And this conversation is going to get extremely uncomfortable for some because you can look at what happened and feel like both things can't possibly be true at the same time.
Speaker: But that's exactly why this case is worth talking about. Not loudly, not emotionally, but honestly. Because sometimes the hardest questions are not about what happened.
Speaker: They're about whether we can understand why it happened. without excusing it. So, like I said, she unaligned her three children, tried to commit suicide, is now paralyzed the waist down.
Speaker: They had 80 witnesses, live streamed the trial. Jury was deadlocked. One holdout. They were going to go not guilty, but the one holdout was like, nah, they're still pending on if they're going to retry.
Speaker: But both Clancy and her ex-husband have filed malpractice lawsuits. Now, there's an important detail that I left out. But what's the first question that comes to your mind? I'm curious to see if it's the first question that came to my mind when somebody was talking to me about this earlier.
Speaker: the first question? Yeah, what's the first question that comes to your mind about this case?
Speaker: I have so many questions. How?
Speaker: How did she? How are they deadlocked? Okay. So... The reason why we're talking about this, because this was not on the run to do today, was because I was having a conversation with a gentleman. I'm going to be gender specific for this conversation, because I think that's important for the later conversation we're going to have about this.
Speaker: Mm-hmm. And this gentleman said, have you heard about this case? And I was like, no, I haven't. He's like, it's all over the news and blah, blah, blah. i was like, hey, your algorithm and my algorithm are completely different. So what'll pop up on yours is not going to pop up on mine. Yeah, it' was a woman strangled her kids and and people, people were women are doing out GoFundMes and stuff of like protecting her and stuff like that. Isn't that crazy? And I was like, hmm.
Speaker: Seems like there's more to the story. Like, why would people do that for obviously somebody who hurt their children? Because supposedly there's one thing that we stand on in this country and is don't mess with the kids. Unless the perpetrators are white males with money. But don't don't mess with kids. So I said, something doesn't make sense to me.
Speaker: Why would they be trying to do a GoFundMe and why would they defend her? And why was this jury deadlock leaning towards not guilty? i was like, i I feel like you're leaving out something in the story. Nope, I'm not leaving out anything. I said, you are. And at first I was just like, oh, a mom killing her kids. This is a story that we hear almost every year.
Speaker: There's nothing. It's a sad story, but I'm almost numb to it because it happens so often. But I am curious. because it was a bug up my ass why they were doing GoFundMes to help her out and deadlock.
Speaker: Guess what I found? What's that? Key thing, postpartum. Not depression, psychosis. I'll get into the difference of it later. But I said, oh, okay, so not condoning it.
Speaker: But I knew there had to be an explanation of why somebody would do that to her kids. And other people are defending her. Not defending her actions, defending her. Right.
Speaker: And the person was like, I don't care. The kids. And I was like, I hear that. I hear that. i I'm with you on that. However, it seems like there's more to the story. Not for me. when i was like, it didn't seem like you did any research because you couldn't tell me anything about what was going on.
Speaker: Well, I heard about it when I was driving in today and they were talking about it on the radio. And you know, some people, some guys are confronting their women about it because women out here defending her. And some guys are confronting their women about asking them, hey, do you defend her? And if they do, they're breaking out with them. I said, oh, okay, well, that's a really narrow form of thinking because it's not taken into context what the woman is going through. i was like, did you... do you understand what postpartum depression is? you done Yeah, I know what it is. Do you?
Speaker: I don't think you do. And it's... And I found... When I was talking to him, it was postpartum depression. When I did dug deeper and did the research before coming on the show, no, it was postpartum psychosis. I'm going to get into the difference of it later. But that was the original thing. Like, wait a minute, how did it get found not guilty and why were there, or close to not guilty and why were there people defending her? Now, after giving you that information, do some of your questions change? Do they stay the same? What is your thought process in this entire thing?
Speaker: No, actually, going to disagree with what you said earlier. You were saying that both things could not be true, but the fact of the matter is that both things are true. No, said people think two things can't be true at the same time. I didn't say both things. Oh, gotcha. Yeah, well, both things are true. One that she allegedly was...
Speaker: suffering from postpartum psychosis, and two, that she's allegedly a murderer. Like, both of those things. Not allegedly. She a admits to it. Okay. She did it. Yeah, she says she did it. She's also a murderer. So, you know, ah we don't talk enough about...
Speaker: postpartum mental health in this country, especially, or I don't know, I guess I can't comment on other countries, but like, I don't think we talk about postpartum mental health enough and how really serious it can be, not just to the children, but also to the mother and and the surrounding community, you know, family and friends and things.
Speaker: But I will say more often than not, I don't have the exact statistic, but more often than not, women going through postpartum depression and postpartum psychosis do not commit infanticide.
Speaker: I know this is true for an adult that it takes about three to four minutes to strangle someone to death. I don't know if that's the same for children,
Speaker: but It's not quick.
Speaker: And there were three children. And so in my mind, there was time to stop. Like, and there was also time to think.
Speaker: Right. Because, because you sent your husband away intentionally. Right.
Speaker: So again, my same question is why were they deadlocked? i can have I can hold sympathy and empathy for her going through postpartum psychosis and also hold her accountable and responsible for her own actions.
Speaker: Because if you knew you were at that point or in that state,
Speaker: The choice is to not put yourself in a position where you're alone with your children. We'll get into that later. But if you notice, one of the key facts that I brought up is that both her and her ex-husband are filing malpractice lawsuits. And the reason why they're filing malpractice lawsuits is because she sought help.
Speaker: The exact par to defense Reddington, she sought help repeatedly. Psychiatrists, therapists, outpatient program, five and inpatient days at McLean Hospital, was prescribed multiple medications and was over-medicated rather than properly treated. The forensic psychologist testifies she was in postpartum psychosis and reportedly hearing a male voice un ordering her to kill the children and herself. Police testimony about her phone and computer searches, which were
Speaker: psychosis, hallucinations, methods of self-harm were used to show a mind coming apart, not a plan. The DA's argument was she was coherent enough to plan. So, something that you said. The state signature claim is that she sent Patrick out for food to buy herself times. And then their forensic psychiatrist testified it would be very, very unusual for someone with psychosis to hear a commanding voice only once.
Speaker: So, The jury was 11 to 1. It was nine women and three men, i believe. So the lone holdout was a man. But this was some person who sought help.
Speaker: So yeah as I started digging deeper, and remember, as I'm talking to this person earlier today, and we're talking, I'm focused on postpartum depression. Mm-hmm.
Speaker: and And then it got to the point and I was like, yo wait a minute, where's the husband in all this? Because if i know that my wife, the mother of my kids, is battling this, and I know specifically what she's been battling because of all the doctors and therapists and inpatient help that she's gotten,
Speaker: would never leave her alone with the kids. Fact of the matter is, I might not have the kids in the house until she's cleared of everything that she's got going on.
Speaker: I'm not putting any blame on the husband. I'm just saying there's a bigger picture here that I think a lot of people don't look at because the headline is so horrific.
Speaker: Yeah. I think the... the defensives claim of over medication. mean, that's a matter of opinion, right? Like they got an expert to say that she was over medicated. You can easily find an expert to say that she was correctly medicated and you can find one to say she was under medicated. So that's not, that's neither here nor there.
Speaker: I, I feel like, it makes sense that she went and sought help. She is, ah you said she was a labor and delivery nurse. ah huh Yeah. So i it makes sense to me that being in the healthcare field, that she did seek help.
Speaker: And honestly, I, it's a really, really hard thing to seek help for because, you know, there's so much pressure on mothers to be like,
Speaker: perfect right and when you're going through a mental health crisis you're you're not your best self so it could there could be a lot of shame and guilt around it so I really actually commend her for going to seek help as aggressively as she did nevertheless while I hold space for that nevertheless there was a plan and She had made a decision that she was going to listen to this voice that she said she heard, send her husband away, murder her children, and try to murder herself.
Speaker: I don't even know if I can say the M word. Unalive. Sorry. Yeah, well, you already said it. I'm not going to bleep it out. I didn't say it. And I think it's apropos discussion. Let's not minimize it.
Speaker: Let's say what it was. Right. And I wonder, would we even be having this conversation had she succeeded? And that's a good and a bad thing, right? One, it's is's not people, i don't want to say taking advantage of the diagnosis as in terms of using it as a defense, but I also think it would have been a bad thing that we not talked about it because it is a very debilitating mental health condition that can result in harm to oneself or harm to one's child. So like, I, I think it's a tough, tough situation.
Speaker: i in my personal opinion, I would have probably been that dissenting vote. Hmm. I don't know what I would have done.
Speaker: i would have asked, can we find her guilty but send her to a hospital? Because it's clear that she needs help. But before we even get into that, because I have to be careful here, because it kind of seems like I'm on defending her and minimizing what she did. I'm not. If this coming off as that, ladies gentlemen, that's not my point.
Speaker: My point is that we need to focus in on the mental health aspect of women
Speaker: after they get after and before they give birth. And the reason why I was real specific with bringing up the gender of the person that I was talking to is because they were so dismissive of postpartum depression.
Speaker: yes And I was like, how can you be dismissive? of anything that you've never gone through. I don't care. And never will. Never will. And their issue was really black and white. I don't care in result.
Speaker: And I was like, I get that. Like, Bruce and Bruce love the kids. Bruce and Bruce don't want nothing bad to ever happen to kids. They are the most innocent souls ever Before, you know, they hit the teenage years. And then that's when they, you know, you could do whatever you want with them after that point. don't really care. But little babies, the little babies, no, we got to cherish them and let them live their childhood. Say what?
Speaker: but say what Teenagers are still children, ladies and gentlemen. You can't just throw them away because they got attitudes now. You can throw them the hell away. I'm including my teenage self in that.
Speaker: Oh, you want to talk about a teenager with an attitude? You know what? We're not talking about me. Yeah, I remember. yeah me thats me Yeah, me. So I don't want to to to... I'm not minimizing that. Yeah, no. But the dismissive nature that I've seen this conversation...
Speaker: with men yeah about this topic has been so disheartening because I'm like, oh, you don't have no space for women at all. None. yeah and Because let me, this is what gets missed. Postpartum psychosis affects an estimated one to two people, women, for every 1,000 births. So you say, well, that's not that big of a deal. Hold on.
Speaker: For scale, that is more common than SIDS. Mm-hmm. OK, postpartum depression, a different and far more common condition, affects roughly 10 percent of mothers.
Speaker: Yeah. People confuse the two constantly. And I'm going to say, I didn't confuse the two constantly because this is the first time I've heard about postpartum psychosis. I've heard depression before, not psychosis. It's not a standalone diagnosis in the DSM, which experts say is a direct cause of missed cases. If book doctors use does not name it,
Speaker: Clinicians may not even recognize it. Advocates have been pushing for it to be listed separately. It is highly treatable when caught. Lithium eases symptoms for something like 98% of the patients in a cited research and electric shock therapy. But you know that's not widely available and not, you know. And TBH...
Speaker: Should we do some more research on electroshock therapy, like yeah more current research? I don't know when the latest thing on electroshock was published, but it feels like an early nineteen hundreds type of thing.
Speaker: Late It don't steal water. But the ah this isn't the new case. And so another yeah argument that the person that I was talking to to introduce me to this topic was saying it was a slippery slope. You know, if one person gets wayward and found out guilty, they didn't say slippery slope. They were describing it. I said what you're describing is a slippery slope. Okay. If one person gets wayward and other people try to do it. And this has already happened two decades ago with Andrea Yates. She drowned her five children children in Texas during a postpartum psychosis and was eventually found not guilty by reason of insanity. Experts say awareness has grown since then, but still very much is needed. And that's the reason why I wanted to have this conversation, because I feel like people don't know what the awareness is. Postpartum depression is a mood disorder, right? Mm-hmm.
Speaker: Postpartum psychosis is a completely different animal and is is genuinely a psychotic emergency. Right. So it it leads to hearing voices, paranoia, confusion, delusions, hall hallucinations, rapid swings between mania and depression. It sounds freaking horrible. It sounds like the bipolar of depression.
Speaker: birth. Yeah. Of women having birth. That's what it sounds like. It's, sounds like something I don't never want to have. And what I find interesting, I'm looking at it now, there's an article in Cleveland Clinic on postpartum psychosis is the symptoms typically appear within 48 to 72 hours up to two weeks after delivering her baby was eight months old.
Speaker: Mm-hmm. Well, she says she, they say she was, trying she'd been trying to get help.
Speaker: I, it, what it, so it is a postpartum psychosis is a mental health emergency. Right. Like it, it's like you said that that depression is a more, it's a mood disorder. It's more prolonged psychosis. The postpartum psychosis to me feels more like,
Speaker: this this is happening. Like, it like something clicks, and is happening. Okay, I hear what you're saying. And I don't know that that's the case, because, again, i haven't I'm doing very rudimentary research. I'm also not a psychologist or a psychiatrist or any kind of mental health researcher, so you can take all of that with a grain of salt. But this is my entire point of having this conversation.
Speaker: We're talking about it. You're openly admitting I'm not... that well-versed in this. right But there are other people coming to absolute conclusions and results and answers without having all of the information.
Speaker: right And you're not doing that. You're saying, i probably would have leaned towards that guilty But this is a very complicated situation. It's a very complicated situation. i think I probably might have led leaned more towards not guilty if it was like a spur of the moment type of thing. Like... like ah a you know the typical idea you get is like a shaken baby like right like the baby's crying you're you fall off the edge because you've already been teetering and like now like this is the last straw shake the baby like in in a psych in a in a in a in a state of psychosis that happens like
Speaker: I would say probably not guilty by reason of insanity, but the facts of this particular case, the planning, the planning of it, the way that she chose to unalive three children, it could have been like a, like, I feel like you just could have found a,
Speaker: a less torturous way to do it? where Where you think about Andrea Yates with the drowning and then, in this case, so strangulation. Like, these are not easy ways to go. i know, but... You know what i'm saying? having them And they're also not quick.
Speaker: Right. But when you're having a mental health crisis, you're not clear of mind. But she's got she's got a wrangle of three and a five-year-old. Yeah.
Speaker: and Look. f Like this, it just feels like the, ah in that time.
Speaker: And again, I don't know. I've never had any kind of event leading to psychosis or anything like that. And I haven't had children, but it just feels like in this, in that span of time,
Speaker: Even before sending her husband out to eat, if she just said, I'm hearing something that is that is making me want to do this thing, do not leave me alone with our children. Like, that was also a choice. yeah I feel like too many choices, specific choices were made that I don't see...
Speaker: not guilty. But again, i didn't hear all the evidence. I wasn't there for all the testimony, the 80 witnesses and and things like that. So, I mean, I really don't know, but I would say, would say that any instance where crime is committed, where a person's mental health is in question is always going to be complicated and nuanced. Yeah.
Speaker: So the reason why, as i dug deeper, This is a hypothesis, ladies and gentlemen. This is a hypothesis, okay? That the reason, as I dug into this, I kind of came to this conclusion, or this idea, this hypothesis, of why there were so many women defending her or showing support for her. It's not to excuse what she did. Right.
Speaker: It's not. We as Black people know... that sometimes black criminals are killed by cops. Yes. We are not condoning whatever crime that they did.
Speaker: But if that black person was unarmed, there was a way to arrest them that didn't have to end in the loss of their life. Yes. Okay.
Speaker: So we're going to defend him. because there's a parallel. That can happen to us. Yes. That's what I believe a lot of these women that are supporting her are doing.
Speaker: They're not saying what she did was explainable or understandable in any way. Neither am i What I'm saying is, and what I think they are, is that could happen to any one of us because there's something that's going on that y'all are not taking serious.
Speaker: Yeah, I think it's less about being in support of Lindsay specifically and more about this is an example of like we need more research and more awareness and to be talking about postpartum mental health a lot more than we're doing because 10% of childbearing people suffering from postpartum depression is not a small number.
Speaker: It's not negligible. You literally, I literally just made that point. You just repeating the point I just made. Oh, did you finish making it? Because just found like... Oh, okay. Okay, I lost you because you leaned in and and it glossed over. So you didn't hear me come to... come to the You was thinking about what you was going say and you wasn't paying attention to. I literally just said that. That they are not in support of what she did, but in support of bringing attention to the things that women are going through. That's literally what I said.
Speaker: Oh, yeah, that's exactly, i agree with that wholeheartedly. I feel like I said it better. You did say it better. Okay, because maybe that was it. Maybe that's where I got You did say it better, but yeah. But yeah, I i i i am, ah you know, holding space for empathy, but also accountability. Yeah.
Speaker: So, Jay, there's actually a name for couples who are committed to each other hu but don't want to live together. It's called Living Apart Together.
Speaker: That is sounds like heaven. Please tell me more. And I feel like they stole this from Cole, from Martin, when Martin and Gina split. It seems like y'all are together, but apart.
Speaker: Yes. Yes. Spin apart together. Yeah. And the important word here is deliberately These aren't couples who are so stuck living in different cities because of a job. They're not celebrated im it separated. They're not on the verge of a breakup.
Speaker: They are choosing to have separate homes while still being in a committed relationship. And that's ah an important distinction because a long-distance relationship usually has a goal of eventually closing that distance. A separation usually has a goal of figuring out whether you're going to stay together.
Speaker: Living apart together, there is no gap to close. There is no breakup coming. The separate homes are the relationship. And that's where I think this gets really interesting because the way this is being talked about right now isn't really as a compromise. It's being presented as an upgrade. The idea is that maybe you could love somebody, be committed to them, build a life with them without having to share a bathroom,
Speaker: without arguing about whose turn it is to clean the kitchen, without somebody asking why you still watch TV at two in the morning, the pitch is independence. You keep your own space.
Speaker: You keep your own routines. You keep some of that mystery and desire that can disappear when you've been living together for 10 years. And maybe for some people, that's actually healthier.
Speaker: But here's a question I want to get into. Are separate homes actually protecting the relationship? Or are they just finding a more socially acceptable way to avoid the parts of the relationship that require a compromise? Because there are those are two very, very different things.
Speaker: Why? i You lost me on, like, what the problem is. Because here's the thing. If you can bypass...
Speaker: A lot of the major problems that creep up in a relationship due to just being in proximity with another human being all the time, right?
Speaker: Especially if y'all work from home. that's ah you're You're together all the time. If you could bypass a lot of those problems and compromises, which usually means sacrifices for one person...
Speaker: by living independently, what's the problem? Like, it what's the problem? I could also bypass a lot of my debt issues by being rich.
Speaker: Like, it's... I don't think being rich is a choice. I don't think you can choose to be rich. But you know what I'm saying? Like, it's like, okay, I would rather, you know, cry in a BIMS than...
Speaker: a Toyota Tercel. I'm just saying. Like, I don't understand why avoiding those uncomfortable and again, compromises, I say that very loosely because it's usually somebody sacrificing.
Speaker: Why not just... Look, they used to have the separate beds. It used to be you had separate bedrooms. Now you're telling me I can have my own full-on house?
Speaker: And we can see each other when we see each other. and it works for us. What's the problem? I didn't say there was a problem. I just thought this was really interesting. So as of 2022, about 3.89 million Americans were living apart from their spouses.
Speaker: Their spouses. Roughly 2.9% of married Americans. So not a small portion of married Americans. You may say, oh, it's only 2%. It's millions of people. It's millions of people. Okay. That figure is spouses only and does not count unmarried committed couples. So that number could actually be higher. Between 2000 and 2022, so 22 years, the share of married couples who lived apart grew by more than 40%. Here's the caveat.
Speaker: This is a trend driven mainly by older women. So here's the plot twist. Here's the mind you, right? Here's the mind you.
Speaker: What this article was basically saying, these studies are basically saying is that older women are like, look, I need to get in a different house. And it tends to be because older women, because they spent a whole existence being mom and caregiver. And they don't want do that no more. But they still love you.
Speaker: As a middle-aged woman, I can tell you, i think it's not I need my own house. It's I already have a house and I'm not giving it up. and i And it's already decorated the way I want. It already got all my stuff in it. The closet's full, honey. I can't make room for nobody else. You might as well stay where you are instead of me...
Speaker: packing up my stuff and downsizing my things to fit you into my house because I to give up my house. I love my house. It's mine. Like, why wouldn't we just maintain separate residences? It's honestly brilliant. It is also...
Speaker: I know for me personally, I've been living on my own now for about 15 years. Yeah. 13, 14, 15 years. and And I have openly admitted on this show, in public, to anybody who would listen to me, that I would really like to split these damn bills. Because yeah it's expensive. If I lived in podunk America, yeah where my rent was $800 month,
Speaker: You know, I ain't got a problem with that. But my rent ain't $800 a month. Ain't nowhere close to $800 a month. So it's fascinating to me that people would choose this because you're going to save on money. But that's my thing.
Speaker: Other people are like, what about my piece? And if you remember, you remember me and my ex-wife, oh Our first place was a one-bedroom, one one-bath apartment.
Speaker: The next place we got was a two-bedroom, two-bath apartment because we had lived in that one-bedroom, one-bath apartment for like a couple of years. And she was fed up with sharing a bathroom. i was definitely fed up with sharing a bathroom.
Speaker: And I was like, look, I need more space to get away with you. I want you, like Patrice O'Neal said, I want you here but not here. Yeah. Just be around. I need you to be around, but not yeah right here.
Speaker: Yeah. I'm, I'm not, I'm the exact opposite. i prioritize my peace over my pockets. I'll pay the bill. I'll pay the bill. I'll pay it. If it means that I get to live in peace.
Speaker: And this this idea of still maintaining... Because i I think that happens, too, in relationships a lot, is that you start to become dependent and you do start to lose your identity in ah in a lot of ways.
Speaker: You stop becoming... You stop being yourself and you're now a part of this unit, which a lot of people are like, well, that's the whole point. But but also...
Speaker: Who's who says like, wait what's who said like that idea of the the couple. Now you're a unit.
Speaker: I feel like is really steeped in patriarchy because because it's not really right. You're not really a unit because the woman didn't have as much power as the man.
Speaker: I think right nowadays, only the only relationships I enter in now are partnerships. We are equal partners because I tend to date independent, successful. Successful means you about something. It necessarily mean monetary. means you yeah about something. You yeah trying to do something. Now I'm attracted to that. If you ain't if you just like, I had the same job for about 10 years. like You ain't trying to do nothing else. Do nothing else. You don't have no side hustles. They got no goals, no aspirations. Like, I can't deal with somebody like that. Yeah. So a unit for me, because I'm looking for a partnership, is a person that improves my weaknesses as I improve their weaknesses. We improve each other.
Speaker: And I've had that. I've had women that I've dated Where the rare times where I let down my guard and say, hey, I'm feeling like I can't accomplish something.
Speaker: And they'd be like, what are you talking about? Yes, you can. You're one of the most determined, strongest people that I know. I don't know anything that you haven't been able to accomplish. You can do this too. Sometimes it'd just be that little thing. Like the strength of a man sometimes is that woman putting that battery in the back and then vice versa. So I think that's what they mean by unit. And that's what I mean by bettering each other.
Speaker: And in my opinion, that puts way too much pressure on both people. yeah i feel like, I feel like, i feel like the purpose of being in a relationship is not to improve the other person. Or like, I don't feel like that's a facet. I think you can be with somebody who makes you want to be better, makes you want to do different things, makes you want to be better, but to I wouldn't make that other person responsible way. I mean, wasn't being clear. Yeah. I don't mean responsible. I mean, it's just by being together because you've chosen this person. They put a battery in your back. You want to be better.
Speaker: That's the reason why i date women who are successful. I'm like, you're more successful than I am. It's not a competition thing. It's kind of like, a hey, Bruce. Let's get up on it here. So it is a competition.
Speaker: it's not It's not a competition surpass them. It's a competition to just be like, because I've dated women who make far more money than me. So it's it's like, oh, I need to make sure that I'm not siphoning off of them.
Speaker: So let me go out here and get some more bread. Hey, do you want to go on a vacation? Yeah, I'll pay. no I'll cover my half because I can do these things together with you. I've been working hard because I see you out here doing this thing is motivating me.
Speaker: Yeah. I just don't need to see you every day. Well, another another reason why couples are doing this is avoiding resentment. So the theory is is that forced compromise on towels, dishes, thermostat wars, all that type of stuff can lead to a slow resentment that that bleeds and then then, you know, damages the bond that y'all had.
Speaker: It could be a little thing that honestly, in the grand scheme of things, is not a big deal. But boy, the accumulation of this little thing.
Speaker: You always drop your clothes next to the hamper.
Speaker: You will never empty the dishwasher. Like, it's the accumulation of these little things that lead to that resentment. And so if you can get around it, get around it.
Speaker: Look, I'm all for people doing whatever makes them happy. And this is how you want to live your life? Cool. If I was in a relationship relationship and a woman was like, I just want i wanna to be with you, but I want to keep things separate, I'd be like, all right, going to tell you right now, since I i don't need to impress nobody, going to give me a little studio in the hood. You are more than welcome to come and spend the night when you want to, but I'm to save money somehow, someway.
Speaker: So I'm getting me a little studio by hood. So when you come over, there's going be bars on the windows and gunshots outside. But I'm going to make sure that you got your space. That's that's my compromise. But just know that I'm going to be living by Macaroni and them. Yeah, but no, this sounds amazing to me. Honestly.
Speaker: ah keep Keep your separate residence. do whatever is right for you. That's what I said. If it works for you, don't don't listen to nobody. Don't even listen to us. If it works for you, it. No, listen to us. I'm saying do, we're both saying do what makes you happy. that Yes, listen to us. Don't even, no, don't even listen to us. Don't listen to nobody. Jay, what do you want to tell these people before we get out of here?
Speaker: Oh, man. i always kind of lean on the taking care of yourself, but I want to actually broaden that to check on the people around you, right?
Speaker: Everybody's dealing with their own own things. It could be mental health crises, you know, after giving birth. It could be changing a job. It could be their partner wants to live independently, right? It could be any of those things. Everybody has got their own struggles and things and,
Speaker: It's always important to check in on the people within your community. Don't just lean on other people. Give them an opportunity to lean on you, too. I love that. You're absolutely right.
Speaker: For me, you know, talking about these stories today, there's one thing that keeps coming back to me. you've got to stop looking at everything like it's black and white. Because we live in a headline society now.
Speaker: People see a headline, they see a title of a video, maybe they watch a 30-second clip, and they've decided the entire story. They know who is right, who is wrong, who is good,
Speaker: who is evil. And they haven't even read the article. They haven't watched the full video. They haven't looked at all the evidence. They just found something that confirmed what they already wanted to believe.
Speaker: And that's not analysts. That's confirmation. And I think we've become this popcorn microwave analyst of everything society. Give me the headline. Give me the clip.
Speaker: Give me the 30 seconds. I'm ready to tell you what the problem is. And I think the bigger problem is that we're not really interested in being correct anymore. We're interested in being right.
Speaker: I talk about it all the time. I don't want to be right. I want to be correct. And those two are not the same thing. You can find information to support almost anything that you believe.
Speaker: That doesn't mean your conclusion is correct. It just means you found evidence that agrees with you. And that's why I think the sermon has become such an important skill. Look at Lindsey Clancy's case.
Speaker: My friend heard a couple people talking about it and immediately said, it doesn't matter. She should be fried under the jail. And listen, I'm not going to sit here and pretend that I don't have an emotional reaction to somebody harming kids. Y'all know I love the kids. I have a strong emotional reaction to harming kids.
Speaker: But I also want to know all the facts before I decide what my final answer is going to be. Because I can believe something happened and still admit that I don't know everything about why it happened. I can have an opinion and still leave room for new information. And honestly, think that's where we're all going wrong. We think changing your mind means that you're weak.
Speaker: It doesn't. Sometimes changing your mind means you've learned something. So maybe we need to start looking at our first answer as more of a hypothesis and not a verdict.
Speaker: Here's what I think. Now, let me see if the evidence actually supports what I think. And if it doesn't, change it. That's not losing. That's thinking. Because life is complicated.
Speaker: People are complicated. Relationships and mental health is complicated. And even the things that seem obvious can look very different when you finally have the full picture.
Speaker: So before you share that headline, before you jump into the comments, before you decide you know exactly who the villain is and who exactly the victim is, take a minute.
Speaker: Read the whole thing. Watch the whole thing. Look at the evidence that makes you uncomfortable, especially that evidence. Because if you only examine the information that makes you feel good about what you already believe, you're not searching for the truth.
Speaker: You're protecting your position. And there's a difference between being first, being right, and being correct. Like I always say, I'd rather be correct.
Speaker: even if it takes a little longer. But here's the uncomfortable part people don't want to talk about. You might be wrong. And that's okay. Actually, it has to be okay.
Speaker: Because if you're so committed to being right that you can't entertain the possibility that you're wrong, you're not really thinking. You're defending. And that's a completely different thing.
Speaker: You don't need to have the absolute answer five minutes after seeing the headline. We don't need to pick a side before we understand the story. We don't need to turn every complicated issue into good guy, bad guy.
Speaker: Sometimes the most intellectually honest thing that you can say is, i don't know yet. And then keep looking. Examine the evidence. You listen to the other side.
Speaker: You challenge your own assumptions. And when new information comes in, you're willing to consider it. That's not weakness. That's discernment. More importantly, that's maturity.
Speaker: And honestly, that's something I think we could all use a little more of. Because being first doesn't make you right. Being loud doesn't make you right. Having evidence that supports your position doesn't automatically make you correct.
Speaker: Sometimes being correct means having the courage to admit the answer you started with wasn't the answer that you're going to end with. freedom And I'd rather take the time to get it right than rush to be right.
Speaker: Ladies and gentlemen, I want to thank you for listening. I want to thank you for watching. And until next time, as always, I'll holla.
Speaker: That was a hell of a show. Thank you for rocking with us here on Unsolicited Perspectives with Bruce Anthony. Now, before you go, don't forget to follow, subscribe, like, comment, and share our podcast wherever you're listening or watching it to it. Pass it along to your friends. If you enjoy it, that means the people that you rock will will enjoy it also. So share the wealth, share the knowledge, share the noise.
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