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Standardized Patient Acting: Kimya Imani Jackson
46 Plays1 month ago
Dr. Kimya Imani Jackson is a standardized patient actor and trainer based in Philadelphia. Listen to Kimya discuss how she got into standardized patient acting, guidelines for physical touch during a clinical encounter and advice for delivering bad news to patients.
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Transcript
Podcast Introduction
00:00:09
Speaker
You're listening to The Wound Dresser, a podcast that uncovers the human side of healthcare. I'm your host, John Neary.
Guest Introduction: Dr. Kimya Amani-Jackson
00:00:21
Speaker
My guest today is Dr. Kimya Amani-Jackson. Dr. Jackson trained as a research scientist in biobehavioral health with a focus on gerontology at Penn State. More recently, Dr. Jackson has worked as a standardized patient actor and standardized patient trainer at various medical schools in Philadelphia and South Jersey.
00:00:39
Speaker
She also works as a freelance artist and Reiki practitioner in various settings. Dr. Kimi Amani Jackson, welcome to The Wound Dresser. Thank you so much, John. I'm excited to be here. So for for those listeners listening at home who um you know might not be too familiar with the medical training curriculum and process, um can you can you kind of describe what standardized patient acting is?
Role and Challenges of Standardized Patients
00:01:04
Speaker
Standardized patient acting is helping to prepare future medical and health professionals by pretending to be fake patients. Everybody is aware that we are fake patients.
00:01:16
Speaker
um either serving as um physical exam models. So models to practice taking someone's um listen to heart sounds and lung sounds and taking blood pressure um checking into someone's mouth in a way that is comfortable for both parties.
00:01:33
Speaker
um Also, um being able to give practice in terms of collecting information, you know, what people know is going to their doctor, ah ah telling them about their ailment.
00:01:47
Speaker
um And also we portray situations that may be more emotional in nature, like, giving a patient bad news um or um or if someone is dealing with a situation of domestic violence or other mental health issues like PTSD, depression, schizophrenia, and things like that.
00:02:11
Speaker
So um future medical and health professionals are prepared when they go into clinical settings. um And then we provide feedback as well um about what those experiences are like both verbally and in um through online checklist.
00:02:30
Speaker
Yeah, I can definitely attest. um you You guys do a really great job, especially at like the emotional situations, whether it be mental illness or kind of like different things like that. ah Working with the the standardized patients has been amazing.
00:02:42
Speaker
um A lot of people kind of consider it like a sort of like a weird job, right? It's like kind of like ah a very interesting thing to do so like kind of like fake an ailment or fake fake
Dr. Jackson's Unique Career Path
00:02:52
Speaker
an illness. So how did you originally get into this work?
00:02:57
Speaker
So I... Like probably other people, I was like, standardized patient, what so what is that? um Because my journey, like a lot of other standardized patients' journeys, have been very unique in terms of how we got there.
00:03:11
Speaker
For me, um I thought my life was going to be as a ah research scientist focused in on research.
00:03:23
Speaker
people living long and well as a gerontologist, but also looking at depression and um the impact of that on physical limitations. That's what I thought i was going to do. And in parallel, I thought I was going to be an artist. That's what I set my life to be.
00:03:40
Speaker
um Once I started working as a research scientist, I realized that I loved information and working with people, but that wasn't necessarily the best fit for me. um And I also wanted to do more artistic work.
00:03:54
Speaker
And the ah job posting showed up in the Theater Alliance of Greater Philadelphia for standardized patients. And once my job ended as a research scientist, I was like, why not? Let me figure out what this is. i don't know exactly what it is.
00:04:09
Speaker
So I applied to I applied to NBOME, which is a licensing agency for osteopathic doctors.
00:04:23
Speaker
um And that is how I got started. yeah that's super cool. ah life Life never kind of, you know, goes exactly as you plan. um is that Is that kind of similar that other other folks just kind of ah stumbled into this profession?
00:04:39
Speaker
Yes. I mean, i work with people who have been who are like, Retired principals, retired nurses, um those that, you know, because you're playing fake patients, it's not out of the realm of possibility. Quite a few people are artists because of the flexibility, whether that's musicians, whether that's theater performers, whether that's interdisciplinary performers.
00:05:04
Speaker
um i even worked with someone that was a former vice president of a bank. And his doctor was just like, for your health, you need to choose another profession and suggested that he become a standardized patient.
Unionizing Standardized Patients
00:05:20
Speaker
I know you've done some work with union unionizing. like What are some of the challenges in this work?
00:05:26
Speaker
I think it's the perception of of an SP's role. like It's believed that You know, you can just pull anyone, you know, you know, off the street to do it. And we're kind of um movable furniture. So the respect piece is not always there for um what the expectations for us, what the expectations are on us in terms of the role. Like we're expected to um learn cases verbatim.
00:05:57
Speaker
We're expected to convey them in such a way that are realistic with um the um the student or learner or learners that we're working working with.
00:06:08
Speaker
If it's an exam, we're also expected to be like checking off in our head that everything has been done, then putting that information on an electronic platform.
00:06:19
Speaker
then breaking character and coming back to give feedback, which is a lot to ask someone to do and and do it with like grace and empathy. So I feel like in some sense, I mean, because when you tell, depending on the generation of the ah health medical professional or health provider,
00:06:40
Speaker
they assume that we're volunteers um or that we came from particular marginalized groups that we shouldn't be paid for our work.
00:06:51
Speaker
So that makes it a little bit challenging um um if that is the perception in terms of the effort and interest that we're putting into the work that we do.
00:07:03
Speaker
um So, yes, so that's, you know, in terms of you bringing up unionization for one institution, that's something that we felt that we needed to do um with the Jeff SP's United and OPEIU Local 32, where we first union organization.
00:07:25
Speaker
first ah union in the school at Thomas Jefferson University. We are also the first union in the United States, all 50 states, and we are the first union in the world that just represent represents Theravax patients.
00:07:45
Speaker
want to switch gears. Another thing I've always kind of wondered about, ah you know, you're, you're, you're trained to somebody to observe a lot of the things in the clinical setting. So when you actually go into like a real doctor's appointment, like what's that experience like being, you know, an SP at work and then, and then being a real patient in a healthcare care clinic setting.
00:08:02
Speaker
It's so amazing because when people, when you tell people what you do, they were like, what is that? Like, I, they're like, I remember that when I was in school and someone would be like, how did I do? Yeah.
00:08:16
Speaker
You're like, okay, I'm not at work right now, but I really appreciate you. I feel like it opens up a different level of conversation that may not automatically happen um outside of if you've been seeing this particular provider for a really long time.
00:08:34
Speaker
um It also, for some, like ah I can feel that they take a breath
Dr. Jackson's Experiences as a Real Patient
00:08:40
Speaker
because they know exactly what we do and they they're just like, whoop what schools you work for?
00:08:45
Speaker
How long have you been there? like um ah What kind of cases do you have? like So you get um people are become very inquisitive. you know They want to ask you so many questions.
00:08:59
Speaker
So it's fun, actually. But you do pay attention. You're just like, oh, did they give me time to like tell my story? you know um they answer my questions? like um Would I come back to them? you know So all those things like play in your head as well.
00:09:20
Speaker
I know you said there's a lot of rubrics for for students and and whatnot. How do you feel like real life practitioners, not students, like stack up would would stack up with some of the criteria that are in ah some of the the the program the ah curriculum?
00:09:35
Speaker
um So i am I am lucky. I mean, I'm also a person, I think standardized being a standardized patient, and then my background, former background as a research scientist in health, I will not go to providers where I'm not treated well. thats That's just me, that is not, and i and I'm lucky that I do have that choice.
00:09:56
Speaker
But I've had great, great experiences, and I think the providers that I go to would definitely stack up. um I think about um my surgeon, Dr. Jim Carrey, who, um is both an orthopedic surgeon, but also has a background in public health. Anytime I had visits with him, I never felt rushed. I never felt pressured.
00:10:20
Speaker
um And when I had to go to subsequent visits, um ah he always like remembered and retained kind of what I said. And I felt like I had a really good professional relationship with him.
00:10:34
Speaker
a retired um internal medicine doctor, Dr. Joyce Duckett. really ah got rid of what people assume happens in a a medical setting, that there is a hierarchy.
00:10:50
Speaker
um She was just like, you come in with information, I come up come in with information, and we figure this out together. um And she told me to, and things like to keep a health journal, to write for myself and my ancestors that weren't given the opportunity to write.
00:11:10
Speaker
Or, um So it it also has made me think about my um lineage with different health
Strengths and Struggles of Medical Trainees
00:11:20
Speaker
providers.
00:11:21
Speaker
that even before I became a standardized patient would have definitely hit the mark and gone beyond that. um I think about Dr. Charles Bailey, who's also a retired physician now, who when I wanted to know more about how a seasonal allergy worked, he pulled out the flip chart, drew and like ah talked in language that I could understand in a respectful way that I could understand.
00:11:45
Speaker
um and he didn't have to do that, but he chose to do that. So, um And I could go even further back in terms of lineage, but but I think a majority of the doctors that I've seen would hit the mark or nurse practitioners or nurses or other professionals um in terms of um level of knowledge, um willing to be fully present under time constraints and pressures,
00:12:14
Speaker
um And really um wanting wanting us to have a continued um professional relationship and and made me want to come back.
00:12:27
Speaker
Yeah, that's great to to hear that you feel like you have like a good, ah you've had you've had some really good experiences. I i feel like, unfortunately, a lot of ah lot of other people might not say the same that they, you know, do feel rushed or they do feel um kind of that their physician or their, you know, healthcare professionals they're working with aren't aren't very present.
00:12:48
Speaker
um But I know you, yeah, on a regular basis, you see so many ah medical trainees. um In general, what do you feel that, I guess we can start with, what what what do medical trainees ah do well?
00:13:01
Speaker
um They do well and lot of them are very open to feedback. I think they also do well like in terms of how they come into the room, like like what I would call setting the stage um to let us know that they're here to support us and care for us whatever the scenario is.
00:13:24
Speaker
um And I think think that students are, or trainees are very good in terms of providing summaries of the visit as well. So it it ah clues us in that we have been heard.
00:13:41
Speaker
um and that's really important for wanting to come back. Okay. anyone So and entering and exit is pretty good for the trainees. How about everything in between? Is there things that people need to work on? You feel like ah in general?
00:13:58
Speaker
I think when it comes to some of the skilled practice, I think and some of the trainees need to not all need to take a breath because it switches into, hi I'm really, I'm happy to see you too.
00:14:17
Speaker
I've got to get these skills done. You know, I know that I'm being watched. I know that there's, you know, time happens. So ah there may be a break in terms of kind of what happens in the beginning and what happens at the end, because they are so um they may be so.
00:14:39
Speaker
ah nervous that they're not going to complete things or getting used to the choreography of what I've called of like getting the equipment and timing things in a certain way.
00:14:53
Speaker
Yeah, I think my own experience would definitely ah kind of go in line with that. I find that it's very hard to stay present and then also, like you said, kind of hit the skills, hit the questions that I've been tasked to complete.
00:15:06
Speaker
um And you know we know humans are pretty bad at multitasking. So when you're trying to do those two like important things at the same time, it it can really um be really hard. So but I guess that's just why you know when you you have these older physicians who have just done so many reps and And they can just focus on being present and don't even need to think about the questions. Don't even think about the skills.
00:15:27
Speaker
Um, but that takes a ah long time to get there. I wish I could, uh, you know, a lot of us could get there faster than, than it actually happens. Well, I mean that, that's why, you know, that's why you all are here and doing it. I mean, I would say one other thing, which I think would help, but again, it is about reps. I agree with you um,
00:15:48
Speaker
um I don't want trainees to lose themselves in their, who they are as professionals, like that their personalities would shine through as well.
00:16:00
Speaker
um Because I think that would help people feel um fully at ease. But I know that there's a lot of things that you're, you know, multitasking and putting together, but like people could be, you know, kind of join that professional selves and their personal selves.
00:16:16
Speaker
So we see it. that helps as well. And I think that will help with the breathing and putting all those pieces together because you're you're fully embodied in who you are.
Incorporating Personal Traits in Practice
00:16:27
Speaker
Yeah, that's really interesting. Can you talk more about that? I know like there are a lot of expectations in terms of professionalism and how you should prevent present yourself. And, ah you know, sometimes my personality is goofy or or kind of, you know, so it's like, when can I bring those parts of myself to that encounter? And when is it best to kind of, ah you know, have more of a a professional appearance?
00:16:51
Speaker
Well, I mean, like you said, you're um a little goofy, you know, can be goofy. Like that's your personality. You can bring that in the beginning. Like when there's, you're introducing yourself being like, you know, I'm here for that. You know, I'm going to these following things during our visit together.
00:17:08
Speaker
oh what do you think about the weather? Oh, what do you think about the Phillies? Like, you know, a little bit of a little, a little chit chat, you know, um Or if the patient says something, you know, as you get a read on them, there may be ah ah a chance to drop a little joke or or so.
00:17:28
Speaker
um I remember talking to a medical um trainee who said, I talk fast, you know, and I'm always worried about not talking fast, but because I'm worried about talking fast, I talk even faster.
00:17:40
Speaker
yeah. um You can just say that up front. You know, I'm a person that talks really fast. That is just naturally what I do. If I talk too fast for you to understand what I'm saying, I'd gladly repeat, you know, but like kind of bring those parts of yourself and you can still be professional. And I think also that will come with practice in terms of because you also Don't know who's on the other side of the room. So I qualified with that as well. You don't know what energy that person is bringing. you And then you're a human being, too. You have good days, bad days, days that are indifferent, that you're also trying to um use that energy as well, becoming professionally.
00:18:27
Speaker
come in with a high level of professionalism, which in turn and will make you um to work with that energy, work with who you are, work as a professional. it kind of makes you an alchemist.
00:18:40
Speaker
ah You have to kind of work with all of those things that you are experiencing simultaneously. So what I'm getting is, is to, I think this is the feedback I've probably gotten from a lot of SPS. You just have to sort of read the room and see like where you can kind of plug in like the, yeah, the goofiness or plug in like that sort of the humanity.
00:19:00
Speaker
And then um while still keeping that sort of professional, ah you know, i don't want to say professional guard up, but like that professional appearance, I guess.
00:19:11
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, it's a lot to ask. I'm not, I'm not, that's not an easy skill. I mean, Um, so i get that, but just some things to, that people just need to consider. Um, um, because we are social creatures and, you know, and your humanness is like what we connect to you in addition to, um the information that you're going to provide to us in these scenarios to feel better.
00:19:41
Speaker
Like, so, um, that may help in turn, ah overall visit and the overall experience and wanting to come back.
Clinical Skills: Touch and Communication
00:19:51
Speaker
We um said before that, you know, SPs are often tasked with addressing particularly sensitive situations that might be, you know, emotionally charged or um just kind of difficult for for patients and for ah healthcare professionals.
00:20:06
Speaker
um I kind of want to talk a little bit more about, you know, a couple of those situations. I think Um, one thing that can be really sensitive in a clinical setting is just sort of, um, you know, in, in general, there's not many people in your life that you kind of let touch that, that you, people you let touch you, uh, and, and, you know, a doctor or a nurse or whoever ah can be one of those people. So, um, when you're working with students, is there any, you know, guidance you give, uh, with regards to, you know, physical touch in the clinical encounter?
00:20:41
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I'm really verbalizing what physical exam maneuvers are going to happen and how much touch they require yeah ah and really letting um the standardized patient or patient that
00:21:07
Speaker
but what out they have if they don't feel comfortable. um So you don't just reach out and touch them. that That's a no. You um verbalize it or and or you show on your own body kind of where those places are. um And also let the patient know if they're too uncomfortable with it, then um That may not happen for now um because, as you said, you don't know what touch and particular types of touch may bring up for people.
00:21:48
Speaker
Yeah. And I think you can think about touch in in two ways. the the The one way which you hit on um was like physical exam maneuvers, right? That you you have um kind of these these checklists, things that you need to do to provide a diagnosis and so forth.
00:22:04
Speaker
ah But then there's also kind of just like the, the touch of of, of putting your, your hand on somebody's shoulder or, or giving them a hug, which like, I, you know, i think can, ah can be very powerful in a clinical setting if it's done right, but it can also make people like uncomfortable. So it's, it seems like there's a lot of cultural competence you need, a lot of awareness that you need um if you're going to properly, you know,
00:22:33
Speaker
incorporate that, that touch into your, you know, medical encounter. Yeah. Now, now I see what you're saying. Yeah. I mean that again, i think that's more of a read the room conversation, you know, because, um, someone may feel comfortable with a touch on the shoulder depending on where it is on the shoulder.
00:22:54
Speaker
And if that is at a moment of pause or a moment where that, um, uh sp or a patient is like really upset and that is seen as comforting putting a hand on the knee depending on that person's age the person same with the shoulder age uh like a ability like that could be read very differently um same with proximity um in in terms of the room like
00:23:26
Speaker
um you know, someone ought to just suddenly like inches close, like proximity means different things in different cultures. So that's something you're gonna have to read. or And also if you have a already established relationship, ah professional relationship with this person in terms of how they would receive that touch versus, you know, if you've seen them, you know, and I don't know, six or seven visits versus one.
00:23:56
Speaker
um Yeah, different for doing it for a new patient versus somebody you've known for years, right? To just kind of, you know, if they're dealing with a tough diagnosis or something, holding their hand or or putting the hand on the shoulder, definitely, definitely depends on that timeline for for how long you've known them and whatnot.
00:24:12
Speaker
Right, right, right. So familiarity, ways of role in terms of types of touching and where. I guess another thing that standardized patients often, um situations they present are are you know delivering bad news that that the that um trainees or physicians or whoever need to deliver bad news. what What kind of feedback do you feel like you often give on how to ah you know best deliver bad news?
00:24:41
Speaker
giving the patient space and silence and silence can feel very uncomfortable. um but allowing silence. So the person has time to process the news that they just received, um, because they may vacillate on that for a little bit before they can really hear,
00:25:05
Speaker
the follow up to that information. Also checking in with the patient how much information they can hear at that time. You know, this may not be the time to give them the whole list of additional people that they should be talking to because they're just sitting with that information.
00:25:28
Speaker
um and because you as a provider don't want to get fully pulled into the various emotional states that you become flat.
00:25:43
Speaker
um Like you can still be sympathetic or empathetic and not be distant. If that's not your, if that is not your natural personality.
00:25:56
Speaker
So let me put that caveat there. So don't speed, give, allow for silence. Do not provide more information than SP or patient wants to hear um um at the time.
00:26:10
Speaker
And don't cut off your emotional state in such a way that it flattens you out.
Enhancing Patient-Provider Interaction
00:26:17
Speaker
um um So those are of the things I feel like I say more often than not.
00:26:24
Speaker
How do you feel about the like the classic line? Like, I'm i'm sorry about this, or i'm I'm sorry about this situation. Like, I think people respond to that a lot of different ways in my experience. I think it, it really, um ah because standardized patients pay attention to various forms of delivery, like your speech, your tone, your body language.
00:26:49
Speaker
Like if you say, I'm sorry to hear that, and you're like kind of roll your eyes or sounds like you're just kind of just feeling in the space it's going to be received in a different way versus I'm really sorry to hear about that you know where it's delivered with a certain tone looking at the person you know giving them space to respond is going to be received differently like it's going to seem like it's
00:27:22
Speaker
um that you really bean it um or if you keep repeating it it's just like oh this person is not hearing me at all so it's all about the ah intention um tone and pacing and another line I've heard like that can be subbed in often is like people will say i wish I had better news or I wish this wasn't the case to kind of i don't know give Since it's not you know a provider's fault that that something happened, that that's I wish is more appropriate than I'm sorry or something like that. But I think there's, yeah, it's kind of, i think what, correct me if I'm wrong, what you're getting at is that it's it's really more about the tone, the body language, kind of like the intangibles as opposed to the actual words in that moment.
00:28:14
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, i the words do matter. I don't want to not say that they do, but it is, I think it's all about intention. um um I feel like if you choose to be a doctor, like, you, you know, you want to be that person that is going to heal, help your patients.
00:28:37
Speaker
So, you know that they're dealing with a tough state. You know that, know, depending on what the bad news is, you can't fix it for them in terms of giving them, you know, set medications, set procedures to take.
00:28:53
Speaker
But what you can deliver is like, as another human being is like, I'm really sorry to hear that. Like that, you know, you're saying the professional way of pet sucks. Like, but, you know, we are going to be here for you in the ways that we can. And this is what I can offer you right now.
00:29:11
Speaker
is like being present with you and be these in the human language this is the best way that I can say it as you're going through a tough time. So we've talked a lot about ah medical training, about best practices for physicians and and healthcare professionals.
00:29:29
Speaker
um But I thought it'd be a fun exercise to explore, um you know, what what should patients know? Are we, ah you know, you could have the best doctor, you could have the best um nurse or whoever.
00:29:43
Speaker
Um, and if you have a patient who's either difficult or just kind of all over the place, like the encounter is not going to go well. Um, so in some way, do you think in our healthcare system, we should provide guidance for patients on how to be good patients?
00:29:57
Speaker
Hmm. Yeah. When, when, when you sent me that question, I was like, Hmm, what would that look like in terms of how to tell a patient to be a better patient?
00:30:14
Speaker
um I guess it would first have to start with what has your experience has been to this point? You know, what what do you think your, what are your expectations coming in? And maybe there's a way to be a bridge. So,
00:30:34
Speaker
okay, you're not, you're coming in, you're not feeling well. Well, if you don't communicate that with your health provider, they can't help you. So like, what are the other ways that we can communicate? What what are the ways that, um what do you think as a patient you need to build a relationship with someone that is trying to help with your care?
00:30:58
Speaker
So I think I would start with questions first to then build, how to build a patient provider relationship.
00:31:10
Speaker
Because I don't think there's like a set standard. I mean, obviously, person has to be able to communicate with you in some way. Obviously, there's an exer expectation, depending on what they're coming in with, that they're going to return back to Also, there's an expectation if there's a requirement in terms of changing behavior, whether that's diet, exercise, medication, that they are going to follow through with that.
00:31:36
Speaker
um But I would start with like what they feel are the barriers to be able to do that and to be able to communicate that information. is it, you know, they were told that, you know, you don't talk about, you know, sam you don't you only talk about health issues with certain people.
00:31:55
Speaker
is it a family thing? Like what what are what are the things that are getting in the way that impede having that relationship? Yeah, I think all the yeah, some of the other things I've just been sort of brainstorming is like, um maybe somehow in in a very, you know, polite and kind way, or or however you would do it, you know, ah suggesting that patients might prioritize their their their health issues or Um, that they kind of have, they kind of like maybe list out their symptoms and they know what's actually going on. Cause then if they can't communicate it, um, that's just a challenge or, uh, even encouraging, um, patients to be like judicious and how they, um,
00:32:36
Speaker
like review health information online. It's just because that can create a lot of anxiety for, for the patient and the physician because, because then it's just, you know, there's so much, there's so much information out there, uh, often misinformation. Uh, so, uh, yeah, no, just, just thinking about guidelines about how, since it's two way street between the patient and, and provider, like,
00:33:01
Speaker
you know, how we can encourage patients to be, um you know, help that encounter along too. Well, I mean, going back to the doctor, I previously mentioned Dr. Duckett, she um really strongly suggested that all of her patients keep a health journal that had everything in it. So if they were not in a space when they came to the office to really hash out things, there was a journal.
00:33:31
Speaker
you know, in there in her hand in in their hand with their health information in it. Or provide ways that would keep, you know, I mean, because of HIPAA and things like that, but ways that other ways that people can provide that information to the provider. Like, I mean, a lot of places have like portals. So like, maybe that's the way that people want to communicate.
00:33:53
Speaker
If there's ways that it can happen by text or phone or written, that at least that information is there and that may be a starting point, um particularly they have had previous not so great
Conclusion and Personal Insights
00:34:08
Speaker
experiences. So even just being in the facility creates so much anxiety that they have these this information that they've provided ahead of time or that they can bring with them that may open up the conversation.
00:34:23
Speaker
All right, with that, it's time for a lightning round, a series of rapid fire questions that tell us more about you. So what's your pet peeve during ah medical encounters? Pet peeve during medical encounters,
00:34:37
Speaker
um not being able to put my socks on as quickly as they were taken off, so being called. I know you're an artist. What is your favorite piece of art Ooh, my favorite piece of art. Or your favorite artist, if that's easier.
00:34:59
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know if I'm good at either one of those questions because right now I'm like exploring music that I've never listened to. So stay tuned on a favorite music or art right now.
00:35:11
Speaker
Okay. What's your go-to self-care practice? ah Bubble bath with where you can actually see the bubbles and Epsom salt. i've gotten When I've asked that question, I've gotten that a couple times, bubble bath, so I might have to try that out.
00:35:28
Speaker
ah Favorite dinner to cook up? Favorite dinner cook up. I like a good um chicken curry soup made in the crock pot with a biscuit or ah piece of cornbread.
00:35:50
Speaker
and a spice cake with icing, and limeade or lemonade, and a big salad. That was very specific. do you Do you cook it up pretty regularly? or It's on my rotation pretty regularly. Awesome.
00:36:08
Speaker
And lastly, ah to end on a positive note here, what's what's one thing in healthcare that's going well?
00:36:16
Speaker
I still think there are a lot of practitioners that still have passion about the profession and want their, um their patients to do well, because it means that their families do well. It means that communities do well, so states do well, and the nation does well.
00:36:36
Speaker
All right, Dr. Kimya and Monty Jackson, thank you so much for joining the Wound Dresser. Thank you. Thank you, John.
00:36:52
Speaker
Thanks for listening to The Wound Dresser. Until next time, I'm your host, John Neary. Be well.