Transcript
Elias Hansen: Okay, welcome back. I think this is, is this episode five, episode four?
Charlie: I think four, right?
Elias Hansen: Okay, I don't know.
Charlie: We're just losing track.
Elias Hansen: i Are you ever losing it?
Charlie: We're... What is that?
Elias Hansen: This is just old hat at this point.
Charlie: Peace. Yeah.
Elias Hansen: um This is just part of who I am. Um... This... special episode you know kind of tough timing on our schedule This news broke either the like the next day or the night of two weeks ago.
Elias Hansen: when we last dropped it but Kind of the biggest outstanding question of the offseason. and Just a really big news story in the NBA. The Kawhi and Clippers, really more Clippers.
Elias Hansen: decision has come down. um And now actually. recent news i guess this morning or something that the the trade was finalized too so The dust has...
Elias Hansen: kind of settled we'll talk a little bit more about how there might be more to come but For now, the big questions have been resolved. Um... and we're going to talk about it. We're going to go through kind of the scenario that led up.
Elias Hansen: to this investigation and the findings from the investigation. We'll talk about the punishment. the different parties involved. um we'll do a little connection to The Spurs timeline of having our my former favorite player.
Elias Hansen: Kawhi Leonard on the team. And then we'll go through just some questions about the ruling and what we think about it, what's happening next. um And we'll, as we were saying, kind of...
Elias Hansen: wrap up. Probably one of the last off -season -ish big stories you probably have. a little more time to do maybe one more like. Zoomed out. league in review kind of offseason, but...
Elias Hansen: This will probably be one of the last main... off -season storylines before we get into media day before we get into training camp preseason. All the fun stuff. So anyways.
Elias Hansen: Table is set. Welcome back, Charlie.
Charlie: What's up guys?
Elias Hansen: Are you ready to talk Hawaii?
Charlie: Yeah, it's it's I think it's... Kauai is one of like the and most interesting parts of like Spurs culture. Because I think he he like kind of represents like a lot of...
Elias Hansen: Yep.
Charlie: A lot of different parts of the Spurs culture that like. Really no other player has like faced you know what i mean at least in this modern era of the team and like our identity
Elias Hansen: Mm hmm.
Elias Hansen: Mm -hmm.
Charlie: And. and so yeah it's just it's it's pretty crazy though that like you know, what started with like a Spurs problem has now. I guess like you can finally say this is like a ah bigger thing than... just with the spurs organization in our front office it's you know, a Kauai in his camp.
Charlie: kind of situation.
Elias Hansen: Yeah.
Charlie: And I think.
Elias Hansen: Yeah.
Charlie: i think you can agree with that
Elias Hansen: Absolutely. And I'll talk more about like... the we'll We'll talk more about the like the the line from the Spurs, but let's jump into... um The current... Investigation so.
Elias Hansen: as As everyone probably knows at this point, this was kind of kicked off by Pablo Torres reporting. of uh with the aspiration was kind of the first thing to come out this environmental company in this kind of bogus deal to create a sponsorship for kawaii kind of plant trees and get paid for it but all of this being a mechanism for salary cap circumvention, be able to pay Kawhi more. um then the max deal
Elias Hansen: be able to avoid some more significant team penalties for the payments that they're giving him. do it under the table. And so this has been. Well over a year.
Elias Hansen: Wachtell, Lipton, Rosen, and Katz. the law firm, prestigious law firm. employed by the NBA to do investigation. They released their report. And I'll kind of run run through the report.
Elias Hansen: Charlie, interrupt me if if if I'm missing anything or anything you want to add to it. um
Charlie: Yeah.
Elias Hansen: and And then we'll we'll we'll discuss a little more. so So the investigation from Wachtell, Lipton, Rosen, and Katz found a quote. Pattern of misconduct. um Multiple. different parties involved in multiple different salary cap circumvention schemes.
Elias Hansen: all perpetrated by the Los Angeles Clippers. Actually... I realized like kind of an NBA fun fact. Did you know that? They're actually the LA Clippers. They're not the Los Angeles Clippers. like that was part of their rebranding like
Charlie: No, I did not.
Elias Hansen: It's LA Clippers. It's not Los Angeles Clippers.
Charlie: I... I know they're like making a big push to try and reclaim l LA like with all the all the basketball courts and stuff like that, but I did not know that.
Elias Hansen: Yeah. i've i
Elias Hansen: Yeah.
Charlie: That's funny.
Elias Hansen: And yeah, that's like...
Charlie: No.
Elias Hansen: Yeah, it's LA Clippers, apparently. not with it But anyways, so what what kind of happened here is that the Clippers were facilitating... Income. For Kawhi.
Elias Hansen: um And they were doing it through companies. that were tied to team businesses. So this was through Aspiration. through Boingo Wireless. daktronics the scoreboard company and locked in insurance.
Elias Hansen: And the the way this would kind of go. Is that. What was revealed in the investigation was that there would be a a setup. a literally quid pro quo between an organization like Boingo.
Elias Hansen: and the Clippers. And they would agree to... essentially pay that they would be set up set up to have a sponsorship quote -unquote with kawai um and then the Organizations would flow money back and forth for sponsorship deals and also for these fake consulting fees.
Elias Hansen: essentially. And it was revealed even that some of the team officials. We're retroactively sending emails pretending. to make an introduction. and probably the most damning.
Elias Hansen: um partner in this scheme was the daktronics investigation which there's now a federal investigation federal criminal investigation into this. um But essentially, like there was there was back and forth from the Clippers saying...
Elias Hansen: We're going to spend more on this scoreboard. Therefore, you need to up. the amount of money that's going to be going in this sponsorship deal. and it should be noted. Daktronics doesn't do sponsorship. Kawhi didn't appear anywhere.
Elias Hansen: as a sponsor So all of this. the the The Clippers were using the... organization's name and kind of business like. Guyses? to get these companies to get endorsement deals.
Elias Hansen: um And then... through Kawhi's business manager, Dennis Robertson. Robertson also known as Uncle Dennis um would. Get. actually set up an LLC. and was funneling money.
Elias Hansen: from the sponsorships. through them to Uncle Dennis, or from from Uncle Dennis to Kawhi. Kawhi claims he had no idea this was happening, in which I think Brian Windhorst said this, and if that's the case...
Elias Hansen: Kawhi needs to... sue Uncle Dennis for fraud because he could go to prison for many years for using his name to earn money. um But...
Elias Hansen: the the The report was really, really damning. it burned the Clippers. It especially burned Steve Ballmer, ah the owner of the Clippers. And it's stressed really that this is a pattern.
Elias Hansen: with the leadership. It's something that happened many years ago with the Andre Jordan, where they set up kind of a bogus Lexus sponsorship for him to pay. This was only a couple hundred thousand dollars, I think, for that sponsorship at the time, but still a means of salary cap circumvention. They identified. Same parties. from those um From those...
Elias Hansen: concerns and and really No one... came off scot -free We'll talk a little bit more honestly, except for kind of why.
Charlie: That was, yeah, that was good.
Elias Hansen: um But in the in the and the Clippers camp... This was... brutal. um And not only was it brutal. It was stressed that they are continuing to investigate.
Elias Hansen: I don't know how likely it is that more. more things will come. But. That is where the investigation landed. I'll stop there before we talk about kind of the punishments. Charlie, did I miss anything, anything you want to add?
Elias Hansen: on kind of what they found
Charlie: Yeah, I mean... I think it's it's important. So... you know highlight like the whole kind of... saga of Uncle Dennis, you know what I mean?
Elias Hansen: Yeah.
Charlie: and like how this this tends this was like a a cornerstone of the Spurs' specific troubles. with kawaii And. um I think I can kind of really quickly go through and remind everybody how that went down specifically in 2017.
Elias Hansen: Yeah, please
Charlie: when we had probably the biggest fallout with a superstar that we've ever had. For those that don't remember, it started with a very famous ankle injury in game one.
Elias Hansen: Oh, yeah. The closeout. The reckless closeout.
Charlie: Yes, the reckless closeout. That literally...
Elias Hansen: If you hate that call in the NBA and you're a Spurs fan, you need to rethink your...
Charlie: if Yeah, it's
Elias Hansen: your
Charlie: that's the That's the Zaza Pachulia closeout play.
Elias Hansen: Yep.
Charlie: and Yeah I still hate him to this day.
Elias Hansen: Oh yeah.
Charlie: um because if y 'all remember we were we were cooking the warriors prime warriors at the time
Elias Hansen: 30 player.
Elias Hansen: Yep.
Charlie: enough to be said about that but um so it starts with this you know closeout injury that was just like... such a you know punch to the gut because It was kind of like this.
Charlie: really like Like this prime of the Spurs. basketball, the system, pop, you know, the old generation, the new generation coming together.
Elias Hansen: Totally.
Charlie: It was like, it really felt like there was still. there's room for more championships with that formula. this really unfortunate injury happens you know we get knocked out of the playoffs
Elias Hansen: And you, I mean, you said it, it was a double digit lead. Like we look completely in control of game one of that.
Charlie: Yes. Yeah.
Elias Hansen: I think it was at the Western conference finals of the semis.
Charlie: It was the Western Conference Finals.
Elias Hansen: Okay. Okay.
Charlie: Yeah.
Elias Hansen: And like. That injury happened and it just. collapsed.
Charlie: it completely collapsed and it was also people forget i believe it was tony parker that was
Elias Hansen: that That was it.
Charlie: injured as well. during that um game i don't know if it was the entire series
Elias Hansen: Mm hmm.
Charlie: all that to be said like with kawaii kind of at the forefront of our system. We were. you know, as much of a competitor. as anyone else. And so he goes down with that injury.
Charlie: Um... we get knocked out of the playoffs, and then it's kind of... this weird time for the Spurs because as I said it's like we're kind of transitioning from you know, our fundamental like trio. and then to this new kind of younger generation kawaii kind of officially has a torch but then In September of 2017, the Spurs announced a quad injury.
Charlie: And there's no timetable and he misses the preseason and the opener.
Elias Hansen: right
Charlie: And so it's like. at this point it still wasn't really a big deal but i think You know, fans were worried because now it's you have this ankle injury and now you have this mysterious quad injury with not a real.
Charlie: explanation. And like I said, no timetable to return. So it's you don't really know how bad it is. um Later that year,
Elias Hansen: Right and because because that I remember that too. It was it like it should be noted at least from my I don't you'll you'll probably know more but like
Charlie: Yeah.
Elias Hansen: it was a It's a different injury. it start He did not play after the Zaza closeout, but that was not caused that was not what caused the quad.
Charlie: Yeah.
Elias Hansen: the mystery, mystery upper leg injury.
Charlie: totally and it just kind of like came out of nowhere too like it was the off season it wasn't really Like there was no really explanation. It was just kind of this thing that happened. It was like, okay, well, you know.
Charlie: Don't know much about that, but I hope it's. Nothing too serious. And so after that later that year, two months later in December, he has his first return. and it's a limited minutes and he's playing off and on through january and he kind of has like one or two games where it looks like he's like kind of looking like his old self again.
Charlie: But then January 17th, he's out indefinitely again. And this is where like.
Elias Hansen: Okay.
Charlie: according to yeah espn reports like the tension first started. um ah in january in that january kawhi's camp got a second opinion in new york And. reportedly didn't trust the Spurs' as medical staff.
Charlie: And that was when our GM, RC Buford, came out and said, You know, their treatment worked beautifully for Tony Parker, but it hasn't worked the same for Kawhi. And for reference, this like.
Charlie: kind of builds in the future. But Tony Parker had a similar injury, the same injury. and was be able to be treated like within the Spurs camp and make a return. um And there was a lot more clarity when that was happening. but Kawhi going to New York was a big...
Charlie: kind of shift and like where he stood with the Spurs organization. And to kind of title back a big. Part of this at the time was that his uncle was leading his camp. His uncle was like Uncle Dennis was.
Charlie: you know a huge voice in directing kawaii's business and directing like his health and like his development as a player and his like future career goals. um So then.
Charlie: A month later in February. Popovich comes out and says he'd be surprised if Kawhi plays that season. which was like... Definitely kind of lit the fire. And, you know, later that month Kawhi tries to do some damage control and says he loves San Antonio.
Charlie: um
Elias Hansen: Yeah, remember that
Charlie: and like would want to finish his career in San Antonio. But reportedly, the last straw came later that month. um in late march when tony parker i don't know if you remember this
Elias Hansen: Uh, yeah.
Charlie: ah was on ESPN and gave kind of some unsolicited comeback advice and it it really came off like you could sense there was some frustration and like this was one of the specific quotes was I've been through it. It was a rehab for me for eight months. Same kind of injury as Kawhi, but mine was 100 times worse.
Elias Hansen: Wow, I don't remember that specific quote.
Charlie: And so. Yeah.
Elias Hansen: Dang.
Charlie: And so that was kind of like. you know this it kind of showed okay this isn't just like a fan and public perception thing this is obviously something internal like seeing tony parker saying that seeing you know popovich you know not being able to give a clear answer and have like very obvious doubts um Later that year, Kawhi skips the playoffs entirely.
Charlie: And I don't know if you remember this, but I remember when Um, Like... you know moments where you wouldn't see kawhi on the bench as that season was progressing And it was very strange to me as like a young.
Elias Hansen: Yeah.
Charlie: fan like why if this person was like bought in and like on the team and paid so much money Like, why were they not even at the games?
Elias Hansen: Yep.
Charlie: um and then the kind of the bombshell was uh on May 1st of 2018. his agent mitch frankel and uncle dennis who's like tends to be at the center of all these things
Elias Hansen: Yep.
Charlie: Um... it starts talking about looking for a bigger market looking at l la and new york and philly and claiming that um He is like... Now, like...
Charlie: leading this charge for Kauai to be searching for a bigger market. and uncle dennis also comes out and says that you know Tries to say it was never about market size, but tries to say like the the Spurs didn't believe Kawhi couldn't play.
Charlie: And you know that. was like what caused all this conflict and that any time a player says He's not capable of playing that you should believe him. And so now you have kind of like this.
Charlie: this figure that's kind of leading. the entire kind of debacle of you know this obvious fault and trust that was growing between Kawhi and the Spurs.
Charlie: Um...
Elias Hansen: Yeah.
Charlie: and that's And that tends to be... Like. what's what we're seeing here, which is where uncle dennis is kind of at the center of these things and it was really
Elias Hansen: Yep.
Charlie: frustrating for Spurs fans because Like, as we all know, Kawhi is not really a media facing. player like it's very rare you get you know any sort of
Elias Hansen: Yeah.
Charlie: content or like you know remarkable comment about anything and so when you can't get that from the player himself and you're hearing all this
Elias Hansen: Yeah.
Charlie: like negative things surrounding you know the team and from inside the team and then you have this Uncle who for some reason seems to be the guy that's like that driving all these like bad decisions and things that are hurting the team
Elias Hansen: Yeah.
Charlie: It's really frustrating. and
Elias Hansen: Yes. Yeah.
Charlie: at the at the end of the day. The Spurs tried to deny that we had any interest in trading him. But in June. um Kawhi demands a trade. and
Elias Hansen: Yep.
Charlie: I didn't realize this, but researching this, I didn't realize. pup flew to California. as like a last -ditch effort in June. Like a week after he demanded a trade
Elias Hansen: Yeah.
Charlie: And it.
Elias Hansen: wow
Charlie: It didn't work obviously.
Elias Hansen: Yeah, I mean...
Charlie: Yeah.
Elias Hansen: um there's there's no need like we don't have to get really into this because it's been done and it doesn't take much basketball knowledge to like imagine what would happen but Just such a sliding doors moment. in the and nba that closeout. I mean, the the prime...
Elias Hansen: Warriors, the the team that people refer to as one of the best teams of all time that established a legacy. were on the ropes and it this was this was a large enough sample size from the team during the season and that start of that game to say like That at least would have been a very competitive series, which it ended up not being.
Charlie: and it was it was it in golden state too that when we were beating them it's crazy
Elias Hansen: Yes. Yeah. Yep. Yeah, and and and like... it i mean you could You could go way down a rabbit hole and you could say this wouldn't lead to the rebuild that led to the current.
Elias Hansen: you know hopefully dominant dynasty that we have now but I mean, I just... i your Your comment about like... Pop. going to California.
Elias Hansen: So I was. I was pretty lucky. When this was. Almost a year ago, this was like around November of last year. at my grad program at Trinity Pop. came. and spoke.
Elias Hansen: like about leadership.
Charlie: Wow.
Elias Hansen: And.
Charlie: Mm hmm.
Elias Hansen: It was super cool. Got to like ask him a question and stuff. It was awesome. But one of the things he he actually talked about. kawaii Because one of the questions asked was about player development.
Elias Hansen: And about. um you know, how how the Spurs system creates leaders out of, you know, these young guys who come in from crazy backgrounds. And he mentioned.
Elias Hansen: How? kawaii came in couldn't he so i think he said quote couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with his shot um And he talked about the development they poured into them.
Elias Hansen: He even referenced like just with ah just a tough family situation. I mean, there's some like personal stuff with like his sister and stuff that he could have been referencing to.
Charlie: Mm -hmm. Yeah.
Elias Hansen: but seemed like a pretty clear reference to like the uncle dennis situation um and That experience hearing him talk about Kawhi even now. just like this last year. And then you're you're.
Elias Hansen: your mention of this the story of going to California. I think like, it brings me back as who's first fan as the time, like I mentioned at the start of this, like Kawhi being. by far my favorite player. um growing up on like especially in the 2014 like championship run like
Charlie: mm -hmm
Charlie: Yeah.
Elias Hansen: I love Kawhi, and I think like this is pretty common sentiment for anyone who's been a Spurs fan for a while. like He completely represented the San Antonio culture. Like he kept his head down. He worked hard. He came in and was a huge part of the team. He wasn't looking to make a name for himself and then enter.
Elias Hansen: Uncle Dennis. Unfortunately, and. This you you mentioned like when he when he requested the trade to this has come out and this this was talked about when Kawhi was entering free agency, but like...
Elias Hansen: Team Toronto was especially especially vocal about it after that one year. um Uncle Dennis was asking for things. He asked for steak. in the the toronto maple leaves i think that the the nhl team like
Charlie: and
Elias Hansen: He was asking for these crazy extras on top of stuff. um And it was called out and it was said, hey, like. Keep an eye on this. It's going to come to light. It has come to light.
Elias Hansen: um But like. i And I don't even want to say like vindicated as a Spurs fan and franchise, because it really is... it's it's a kind of a sad situation.
Elias Hansen: um considering how fantastic of a player Kawhi has become. But... Like it does ease the sting from that kawaii debacle in san antonio quite a bit because It stung for quite a while. That really felt like...
Elias Hansen: Before things turned around, honestly, like we had some runs with... with different teams um we had some runs with like pow and lamarcus and and damar had some fun moments but it
Charlie: who
Elias Hansen: felt like the definitive closing of a very open championship window for a long time. and That was a tough pill to swallow. And I think... Looking now. at what has happened.
Elias Hansen: It makes it a little bit easier for the Spurs and for Spurs fans and for all of San Antonio to say. Okay. Honestly? Spurs handled that. probably the best way they could have. They developed a young talent into someone who is one of the best players in the league when he plays well. I mean, he's absolutely dominant, ah unstoppable when he's at his best.
Elias Hansen: We won a championship with him. We developed him into one of the... best players of the league. And when the relationship fractured. we There was a tough season, like you described in that storyline, and we moved on.
Elias Hansen: And we didn't. been to what I'm sure were demands made of the team from uncle Dennis at this time, based on what we're hearing now. Um, And we washed our hands and we moved on to the next run and it was pretty good. And then we did the right thing and and rebuilt.
Elias Hansen: Um. But. Yeah, that that era. of spurs fandom i mean honestly like the the primo stuff was like already when when we were like
Charlie: yes
Elias Hansen: so far away from relevancy that it it feels less painful.
Charlie: Yeah. Yeah.
Elias Hansen: But yeah, I mean, that was. ah Yeah. That was a lot.
Charlie: yeah i mean people forget too because i think a reason why that was another reason why that stung so much is because of how much he developed like as a spurs player like while he was in the organization And like, he was kind of like.
Charlie: this like staple of what a basketball organization, like what a team. can... you know give a player the ways they can support him to develop him into a superstar because he was not i mean he was good he was a great prospect when he when we drafted him but he was not Nearly. what he became.
Charlie: and it's it's funny i think like after that like there was this whole thing of like like primo i remember being like oh that's like the next kawaii or you know murray is the next kawaii it's like it's like the people who i kept throwing around this like the next kawaii because like
Elias Hansen: Yeah.
Elias Hansen: Right, yeah, yeah, sure, DeJounte.
Charlie: it had worked so well and like We got this perfect. like situation of like someone who is so like willing and able to develop within our specific program. and so that was another part i think that made it difficult because it felt like that was like
Elias Hansen: Yep.
Charlie: you did it you did the hardest thing which is find the player develop them and then
Elias Hansen: Yeah.
Charlie: you know, it messed up
Elias Hansen: before Before we like come back to the punishment and talk about...
Charlie: Mm hmm.
Elias Hansen: the the outcomes and stuff, I want to like kind of change plans and jump right to like the Kawhi impact. And I want to read his full statement that he released because one, it's hilarious.
Charlie: Hmm.
Elias Hansen: Like it is, it is so funny, but also I think it it like. it I'll start with the serious mode first. I think it... is a really good example of a great player.
Elias Hansen: who is just in the wrong camp. And... has been kind of I mean, It it worked out. he He's made. a shit ton of money and is regarded as one of the best players of all time. His reputation is certainly scorned now.
Elias Hansen: But. I mean... Comparatively speaking to a lot of basketball players in the world, Kawhi's had it pretty good. But let me let me just read this statement.
Charlie: Yeah.
Elias Hansen: We could talk about it. So in full. Integrity and respect for this game are fundamental to who I am. I accept full responsibility for lapses in judgment. by people within my inner circle and regret the distraction the situation has caused the fans and my family.
Elias Hansen: I entered into my contract with the Clippers as well as the agreements. in in Agreements in question in good faith, fully committed to fulfilling my obligations. with no knowledge of any intent on anyone's part to circumvent the salary cap.
Elias Hansen: For 15 years, my priority has been giving everything. to my family, the game and those I share the court with. As I return to Toronto, I'm focused on what I can control. Closing this chapter. And moving forward. with a clean slate.
Elias Hansen: Few things to note. One. Return to Toronto. This was said before the trade was made official. Less of a big deal than at the time of the statement came out, but people were a little bit like. um Good for Kawhi. Moving on with a clean slate.
Charlie: Yeah, right.
Elias Hansen: I think we're the $700 ,000 fine. Nothing. No suspension. Great. But that line of, I accept full responsibility for lapses and judgment.
Charlie: Crazy.
Elias Hansen: by people within my inner circle is so good it is such a incredible way to word this to like
Charlie: It's... Right.
Elias Hansen: Say sorry and accept zero responsibility and admit zero knowledge of any of this backdoor stuff that was going on. Absolutely hilarious.
Charlie: it's so It's like making like two degrees of separation from like who's at fault like in one like half apology. like that's That's hilarious.
Elias Hansen: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean... Once again, like... What else is he gonna say? I guess he could have kept it a little shorter. But. i mean This is...
Elias Hansen: based on the punishments that were given and the rulings that were determined. Kawhi once again kind of... Getting away.
Charlie: Me.
Elias Hansen: without without any any real real punishment.
Charlie: Yeah. he He totally is like the winner in this situation you know what i mean you got to plant a few trees and make uh you know a few million dollars extra
Elias Hansen: Yeah. Mm hmm.
Elias Hansen: Mm hmm.
Charlie: And the Clippers are... you know just eternally damned
Elias Hansen: Yep.
Charlie: After trading Shea, just more and more every year, it's proven.
Elias Hansen: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. so let's So let's talk about the suspension. so Running through it, we'll start with the clippers. um And I'm going to put a... We'll come back to it. Let let me run through them first. So Clippers get a $30 million dollars fine. They lose their first round picks from 2029 to 2033. And they have five years of compliance monitoring.
Elias Hansen: um which is just like Increased scrutiny from the league. at their business deals Steve Ballmer. who, as I mentioned before, And before this, from what I was reading and listening to, it sounds like really had a lot of support from a lot of the owners.
Charlie: Mm hmm.
Elias Hansen: it has since evaporated he really came out of this looking like A. scummy leader and a big loser. He is suspended for one year from any interaction with the team whatsoever, can't go to practices, can't can't be involved.
Elias Hansen: Um, Jillian Zucker, I should have written these wrote these people's titles, but Jillian Zucker and Lauren, Jillian Zucker, she came up a lot in the report as someone who kind of facilitated these fake emails. She would send out a fake introduction retroactively.
Elias Hansen: saying, oh, X sponsor meet X um member of Kawhi camp, so you can start a start a...
Charlie: the
Elias Hansen: even though this has already been facilitated. She's a one -year unpaid suspension. Lawrence Frank. who was also heavily involved. I think he might be the president of basketball operations. He, um as they say, sang like a canary.
Elias Hansen: when this investigation started.
Charlie: Hmm.
Elias Hansen: And so he is serving a six months unpaid suspension. but was extremely cooperative. Apparently... He took detailed handwritten notes.
Elias Hansen: in some of these meetings. about these sketchy deals. I mean, we could go on forever about like all of the evidence that is there about people being like, this is insane and.
Charlie: That's crazy
Elias Hansen: Clippers pushing back when other, anyways, he took detailed handwritten notes. For whatever reason, but it must have like kind of foreseen something would happen and completely turned them over when this investigation started. So he he gets a lightened sentence. um from this kind of i guess kind of kangaroo court honestly that the and NBA holds. They're not actually. a court of law. Uh, as we mentioned, Kawhi.
Elias Hansen: He is paying $700 ,000. Real tough penalty when you're making... ah the hundreds of millions, no suspension. The trade has gone through. He will be a Toronto Raptor.
Elias Hansen: um next year. And then Dennis Robertson. Uncle Dennis, as we've been mentioning, he's a five year ban. from NBA team business on behalf of players. and league personnel.
Elias Hansen: So hopefully that can remove some of the distraction. But I want to go I want to jump now to the Clippers punishment.
Charlie: Yeah.
Elias Hansen: Well, actually first let me put a I think just I think we mentioned this earlier but like Julian Zucker and Lawrence Frank, some of the basketball operations people at the Clippers, day the big thing that came out in the report, like I said, was like this pattern.
Elias Hansen: of of kind of shadiness and backdoor deals. they they had but They were involved. A lot of the same leadership was involved when this DeAndre Jordan scandal happened. And so a big reason that... there is such a big punishment.
Elias Hansen: was because that this was identified as something that has happened before and is a pattern of uh,
Charlie: Mm hmm.
Elias Hansen: Just catching this. I guess we can say But the the big thing that everyone was talking about, and rightfully so. um is the Clippers' punishment. And so like we mentioned. five first round picks and an organization that's already pretty kneecapped.
Elias Hansen: um from a... trading a trade. getting rid of the now MVP SGA. um to get Paul George. which honestly like At the time, like...
Elias Hansen: Paul George, Kawhi, like... you know. It wasn't insane. SGA was a rookie. like It looks worse retrospectively, of course, but the immediate reaction to all of this was.
Elias Hansen: you know, nuclear bomb on the Clippers. If this was a small market team, they'd be leaving like this. This franchise just got like the death blow.
Elias Hansen: Um. But the dust has kind of settled. And. It's obviously still a really big deal, but I want to get kind of your thoughts on what you what you think of this. Now that this trade has gone through.
Elias Hansen: um They're going to get two first round picks back. um They have one 2027. swap. I think it's... Thunder I can't remember in in the trade
Charlie: e
Elias Hansen: um So it's not as bleak. As I mentioned. um I'll stop there. What are your thoughts on on the Clippers' outlook? and this punishment handed down for Mr. Silver.
Charlie: Well, that's what I was going to, I was. gonna kind of frame it through is like if you're adam silver like how do you handle such an egregious... you know scandal in your league and I think that There are a lot of jokes about like how the league used to be run versus how it's run now.
Charlie: based on i think like we have so much access to
Elias Hansen: Yeah.
Charlie: all of the different controversies and all the different, you know. also podcasting and NBA players and like you know there's like such an immediate access to these people these players. um I think he, Adam Silver's...
Charlie: Putting a very... tough position because you definitely like have to crack down on this like there's no doubt about it this is a
Elias Hansen: Yeah.
Charlie: So it's almost like a Rico case. Like it seriously, it's like.
Elias Hansen: Yeah. Yeah.
Charlie: it's like this like conspiracy and like money you know laundering and fraud it's like it's really
Elias Hansen: He really is.
Charlie: isn't saying that this is happening. And what like to that, like the Clippers thought they could like do this. today, like in this age and get away with it.
Elias Hansen: Yeah.
Charlie: um I feel. the worst for the Clippers fans because They...
Elias Hansen: Totally.
Charlie: you know
Elias Hansen: totally i've i've heard it said too like like clippers should be like giving away half price tickets or something to fans like the fans really are the biggest loser here because god We...
Charlie: Yes.
Charlie: Yeah.
Elias Hansen: like
Charlie: And they and they just have this like brand new stadium. And another part that's like kind of like. it's like more complicated for me to you know have an opinion on like I definitely there's obviously like a a pattern and a trend within that organization and their ownership and the front office that like of like shadiness and willing to kind of check take shortcuts and break the rules.
Charlie: But. Like up until this year, Steve Ballmer was known as like one of the like greatest like fan first. like people in NBA ownership and people loved what he was doing with like their new stadium and like the new like fan wall that they kind of like this new concept.
Charlie: like right behind like the basket and it was going to supposed to be like the hardest
Elias Hansen: Yep.
Charlie: free throw to make in the and NBA. and like He has like making all these courts around. you know la and putting the clippers logos on them to try and Reclaim or not reclaim but get a little bit more attention towards the Clippers in Los Angeles.
Charlie: All that to be said, it's really hard. to see you know, someone who I feel like a lot of... his intentions could have been perceived as like really. great up until you know, this whole scandal.
Charlie: be he's like so Like at the center of it and so there's nothing you can really say to defend that
Elias Hansen: Yeah.
Charlie: I think. It kind of blows me away that Kawhi gets off. scot -free like I feel like he, if anything... probably should have been punished a little bit more.
Elias Hansen: Yeah.
Charlie: Not that I'm like going to go wish that on. anybody but like you know seven hundred thousand dollars and no suspension The trade goes through. He's on the Raptors. It's literally nothing ever happened for him.
Elias Hansen: Yep.
Charlie: and like the Clippers organization. Just got set back. Eight years. Like...
Elias Hansen: Yeah.
Charlie: That is that seems like pretty. pretty unfair to me especially when you consider like everything we've talked about i like the history of Like. I don't know, like Uncle Dennis and like kind of. you know going around asking for more things and being very complicit and at the center of this deal. I just I feel like my overall takeaway is I just I feel bad for Clippers fans.
Charlie: And i I understand the crackdown on the executives.
Elias Hansen: Yeah.
Charlie: I don't quite understand. going so easy on kawaii but ultimately like Someone had to take. The Fall.
Elias Hansen: Yeah.
Charlie: for Adam Silver.
Elias Hansen: Yeah. Yeah. A few things that you said that I want to touch on, like the the point about Steve Ballmer. You're totally right. Like his introduction. I mean, his his like. career now. It's almost like but he came in after the Donald Sterling.
Elias Hansen: controversy.
Charlie: Mm hmm.
Elias Hansen: um with the clippers which if you haven't seen the I think it's Adam Friedland. talking to blake griffin about like that experience like the one of the funniest like clips slash podcasts i've ever listened to so funny um but he came in And really like the introductory press conference was like, I'm fired up to be here.
Charlie: Yeah.
Charlie: If... ah
Elias Hansen: Yeah.
Charlie: Yeah.
Elias Hansen: And he's always screaming at the games. And. like The Clippers are the little brother. like They have worked so long to achieve relevancy.
Charlie: yeah
Elias Hansen: in a city where like they're just never going to be on the Los Angeles Lakers level, no matter how good or bad. either team. or like it's just it's just the storied franchise.
Elias Hansen: and it it In a way, part of me... is like, it sucks. um that this happened it definitely sucks for the fans but I mean, this was pretty clear cut.
Elias Hansen: The language in this report is not.
Charlie: who
Elias Hansen: giving a lot of room for sympathy. And I think that that's a good segue into. Kind of my take on the the punishment like we've talked about I think we've talked about this before but But Adam Silver.
Elias Hansen: Has a reputation. for being pretty soft on crime. in the and NBA. And I think. for a lot from what i read and heard like a lot of owners and teams and pundits were like Good.
Elias Hansen: like This is and it's a historically severe punishment. The only comparison is the Josh Smith salary cap circumvention in Minnesota. um Back in the day with David Stern.
Elias Hansen: was the commissioner. um But five first -round picks, like you're saying, it is an incredible blow. but Like I really, I'm, I'm. so the the The two first round picks, like...
Elias Hansen: if if the Clippers are able to get their fans back in their good graces, I can imagine a scenario, if you're going to still be loyal to your team, where you're like... Listen, like... We got a Western Conference Finals run. We got to see some fantastic players on our team.
Elias Hansen: We have ah some exciting young talent, Darius Garland's on this team. like Who knows? And we're getting two first round picks. Like it is not.
Elias Hansen: Completely bleak.
Charlie: <unk>
Elias Hansen: And I think... Like. Now that this trade has gone through the initial reaction of like. This is like SMU death penalty level. for the franchise is not quite. True.
Elias Hansen: I even heard like, I think. uh, Like it. comparing like a zach lowe show initially right after talking about how this is like the death the death blow and then Windhorse podcast with the. trade kind of talking about, well, like.
Elias Hansen: Did they actually get off kind of easy? And so I think this kind of strikes a perfect balance. um because It's historically severe. It's not going to be another mark on Adam Silver's resume saying that he kind of let something slide. But in practice, I don't think it's. completely bleak for fans but i do think that there's there's a lot of winning back that this franchise has to do um for those poor. Clipper fans. I mean.
Elias Hansen: That would be a brutal time to be a little brother in LA.
Charlie: Yeah, I agree. and that's And that's, I agree with what you're saying about. out of silver is like kind of reputation help. That's why I think this is like a... important. Moment for him to crack down especially like now also
Elias Hansen: Yeah.
Charlie: I think we can all understand. the like early report that came out that at first sounded like they were going to go very easy on the Clippers and they immediately
Elias Hansen: Yeah.
Charlie: like put a like stop to that or like the report is not concluded yet like anything reported
Elias Hansen: yeah i haven't heard a lot of talk about that but like talk about a blow to yeah espn credibility but i mean i will so like yeah espn is credible we talked about this and like there had to have been someone relatively qualified saying that there was nothing
Charlie: Yeah.
Charlie: Hmm.
Charlie: Yeah.
Elias Hansen: wrong and everything was fine. But I mean, that report was like.
Charlie: on
Elias Hansen: Straight line, like... Nothing's happening. Everything was above board. They didn't find anything. ah enough evidence. Business as usual. And like, ah like a week later or something, the complete opposite happened.
Elias Hansen: Yeah. Like.
Charlie: Yeah.
Elias Hansen: ah Some credibility is in check for some of those reporters. Yeah. Yeah. I think one of the... um Yeah, tying back to the Joe Smith thing, like the... the the um Minnesota salary cap circumvention punishment back in the day.
Elias Hansen: Joe Smith's contract was... um Voided. and that And that, but I think one of the interesting things but when this. initially came out um The Clippers were like... immediately like we're gonna fight this you look anywhere in the league this is going on um this is unfair this is not realistic And a lot of the.
Elias Hansen: The talking heads, which I've ever i agreed with, was like. The Clippers and Steve Ballmer need to shut the hell up. and they need to take this punishment. Because. Nothing good is going to become out of fighting this.
Elias Hansen: There's not really any grounds to sue. The NBA is a club.
Charlie: Yeah.
Elias Hansen: that you choose to be a part of um you can't that you agree to the rules the players association clearly agreed to this punishment ah There's no room for arbitration.
Elias Hansen: and when this happened in Minnesota. When David Stern was the commissioner. The. Two days after. the Timberwolves came out and said, we're accepting the punishment.
Elias Hansen: Okay. They were given a draft pick back. And they were given another one back, I think, a year later. um And so there is some precedent to saying.
Charlie: Mm hmm.
Elias Hansen: if you just you know shut up and be fine with it Maybe some of this will... ease a little bit there'll be some sympathy for the fans kawaii's gone like we We'll move forward.
Elias Hansen: Although one of the funnier take, and and I should note that since then. That's what Steve Ballmer. As said, he's not going to. fight this anyway that was recently he I think like. today or yesterday or something came out and said like i'm not I'm not going to fight this. I'm not going to sue.
Elias Hansen: Um. One of the funnier ideas though. I can't remember which podcast I heard it on. It was either Zach Lowe or. Brian Windhorst. just like Couldn't Steve Ballmer.
Elias Hansen: Like. He's still the owner. He can't be involved around the team. but he's still He's still writing the checks. Could he just like go scorched earth and just go way above the salary cap?
Elias Hansen: And just, I mean, he's a. hundred billionaire like he can afford it like just pay
Charlie: Amen.
Elias Hansen: all of the money possible to get anyone who could possibly come trade away everything and just pay everyone. a million billions of dollars for years. um to score in the league.
Elias Hansen: Would have been funny to see, but... Clearly, that's clearly that's not going to happen.
Charlie: For, for. Good reason.
Elias Hansen: Yeah. For good reason, for good reason. But I think to to kind of like. Well, anything else you want to add on like Clippers punishment or Steve Ballmer react or anything, anything else you feel like we didn't.
Charlie: I think that's that's pretty much that's what I...
Elias Hansen: Didn't get to enough for the punishment Yeah.
Charlie: what I have to say on it. Just those poor Clippers fans.
Elias Hansen: Yeah.
Charlie: That's it.
Elias Hansen: poor clippers fans man and i think it to land the plane on the whole thing like We talked about it before, but like... Spurs fans. through all of this should just feel Vindicated.
Elias Hansen: Like, the Spurs did not bend to the demands of Uncle Dennis. The team did not bend at all. Um. When there was the influence of this type of decision -making from Kawhi's camp on the team, the team, like you're saying, the Tony Parker quote stood up to it.
Elias Hansen: And it was like, this is not the standard we accept. Spurs were the first team to notice it and traded Kawhi away. The Raptors avoided it. after a year, raised their hand and said, hey, this is going on.
Elias Hansen: um Kawhi's camp was poking around in Toronto. they they were poking around la and we didn't we didn't talk about this much but i think one of the other things that I was. curious like just looking back on this it's just like Why?
Elias Hansen: Why do it? Like, i I get that there's the little brother syndrome, but... Kawhi wanted to be in l LA after leaving Toronto for a year like that.
Charlie: on
Elias Hansen: That was, he wanted to play in California. It wasn't going to be the Lakers. They were always going to extend Kawhi. Kawhi was always going to take the extension. He initially signed on like a two -year deal with a player option, but that was... almost a formality. Like there really isn't a lot of evidence.
Elias Hansen: that Kawhi was going to leave the Clippers. if they didn't provide him a max extension. um And still. the decisions were made. And I have to assume it's because Uncle Dennis was pushing for it.
Elias Hansen: and threatening but it just doesn't seem like that there was a a clear i mean if there was a team in direct conversation after that initial contract was up and it was time for an extension, then maybe we could go back and say like,
Elias Hansen: makes sense that the Clippers were went all in, and so does it make sense that they cheated. But like we're pushing to keep Kawhi.
Charlie: Mhm.
Elias Hansen: uh in l la not los angeles um But. it just It just doesn't make any sense. It doesn't make any sense.
Charlie: that's That's such an interesting point because I haven't even... like considered actually like how much there was to benefit versus how much of a risk it was and like the
Elias Hansen: Yeah.
Charlie: the weight of those consequences it just on both sides even like even with kawaii himself like It just doesn't. You are already a superstar. You can make...
Charlie: all that money actually doing advertisements and like brand deals if you wanted to like it just it doesn't it was just so not worth it
Elias Hansen: Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.
Elias Hansen: Yep. So not worth it. And like, you'll see everyone, if unless you're just like our family members supporting us, but if you happen to be a random and NBA fan watching this, I'm sure you've seen like the graphics of like.
Elias Hansen: sga and 10 first round picks was at a cost for kawaii leonard and like Yeah, that's true, but like... ah I don't know. I don't know if we can go that far.
Elias Hansen: No one could have known SJ was an MVP. You took a swing on Paul George, who at the time was incredible.
Charlie: Yeah.
Elias Hansen: Like, this this punishment is... the product of of shady leadership. i you know.
Charlie: than a grape.
Elias Hansen: Ugh.
Charlie: front office in the Thunder. Honestly, more than more than anything.
Elias Hansen: Yeah, exactly Yep.
Charlie: But...
Elias Hansen: Yep. Totally. Well, that's what I've got. on the kawaii stuff as i mentioned early on It's it's we're getting to that time in the county where.
Elias Hansen: By the next time we talk. We will be less than one week, one week, one month away. from opening night against the Thunder. I think media day. is in a couple of weeks Training camp starts soon. First preseason game.
Elias Hansen: against the Hawks, either like the third or the eighth or something of October.
Charlie: a
Elias Hansen: So lots of of real Legit. basketball to look forward to and I for one and I'm Very excited to talk.
Charlie: updates.
Elias Hansen: about real basketball. I think there's going to be a lot to talk about this season.
Charlie: Amen. The same here. The same here. I cannot wait for it to be like an ongoing thing and not, you know, this deep in the offseason.
Elias Hansen: yes yeah we've only made it almost made it through deep deep into the offseason um we We'll... return uh we'll keep on i think the the tentative plan we mentioned this before but to to keep on a two -week uh schedule for off season and then see if we can do weekly Once the season starts, once there's more games going on.
Elias Hansen: And there's a few more juicy storylines. But for now... I can. i probably I could look at a calendar, I guess. But I guess we'll have... Probably. Two.
Elias Hansen: more episodes, two or three more episodes before the actual season starts.
Charlie: Mm hmm.
Elias Hansen: Um, And. with those we'll talk about. We'll kind of do a recap of the offseason, some of the moves, so just everyone's kind of caught up to speed. where everybody is because everyone's in new places.
Elias Hansen: We'll talk about. the decision for the starting lineup. which is going to be an interesting call.
Charlie: Mm -hmm
Elias Hansen: um who's willing to take the bench role. um And then we'll obviously... you know, hit on any any big news that comes up. I kind of think we're... out of the woods there's some extensions that alvin thompson got an extension you could debate i think you know overall just kind of makes sense there's the
Charlie: Hmm.
Elias Hansen: um question of Isaiah Thomas, Isaiah Thomas. Who am I talking about? On the Pistons. Um... Jalen Duren.
Charlie: Oh, Jalen Dern.
Elias Hansen: Jeez.
Charlie: Yeah.
Elias Hansen: Whoa.
Charlie: has hits it
Elias Hansen: ah There's a question of the Jalen Duren decision.
Charlie: Zeta Thomas might be coming back.
Elias Hansen: yeah yeah that would that would definitely be worth the talking about on the podcast but there's a few other loose ends to wrap up but
Charlie: Amen.
Elias Hansen: pretty soon We'll be into the meat of it.
Charlie: Can't wait, man. It's gonna get a lot easier.
Elias Hansen: Maybe. yeah It is. It is. A lot less research. Cool.
Charlie: Yeah. um
Elias Hansen: Alright, well, we'll talk to you all soon. Hope you enjoyed.
Charlie: Peace.
Elias Hansen: Peace.
