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Living Abroad as Liberation: Christine Job Is Flourishing in the Foreign
27 Plays5 months ago
Can living abroad be liberatory? Christine Job, of Flourish in the Foreign, shares her transformative journey from Atlanta to Valencia, Spain, exploring the intersections of migration, Black womanhood, and wellness. She discusses her decision to move abroad, the challenges she faced, and the profound self-discovery that came with living in a foreign country. We go in about the importance of community, the realities of living abroad, and the negotiation of family dynamics for women seeking to change their lives. Christine offers insight especially for Black women considering international living as a pathway to liberation and wellness. We explore the concept of 'soft life' and its deeper implications beyond mere leisure; and dive into the impact of US politics on personal identity abroad, and the necessity of intentional living for Black women. This conversation is rich!
Connect with host Janna Zinzi through WanderWomxn Travels and Christine on IG at @flourishintheforeign.
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Transcript
Introduction to Spirit in the Material World
00:00:00
Speaker
Greetings, beautiful people, and welcome to Spirit in the Material World, your Audible Eat, Pray, Love remix with Old Bay, Sazon, Shea Butter, and Patchouli.
Meet Christine Jo: Empowering Black Women
00:00:12
Speaker
I am your host, Jana Zinzi, also known as Jazz, and I'm so happy to welcome today's guest, Christine Jo. She is an award-winning podcast producer.
00:00:23
Speaker
sir And soon to be author, um an amazing business strategist dedicated to empowering black women to thrive globally. She's a black American with Trinidadian roots and hails from Atlanta, but now calls Valencia Spain home.
00:00:40
Speaker
As the creator and host of the acclaimed podcast, Forged in the foreign Foreign, which you should subscribe to, Christine explores the intersections of migration, blackness, womanhood, and wellness.
00:00:52
Speaker
Her upcoming book by the same name, Flourish in the Foreign, A Black Woman's Guide to Cultivating a Life Well-Lived, reimagines international living as a pathway to liberation. I love that so much. The word liberation is so ah strong and so important right now.
00:01:10
Speaker
offering practical insights and inspiring stories to readers to help readers redefine joy and wellness on their own
Christine's Journey: From US to Spain
00:01:18
Speaker
terms. So we are going to get into that today. um She's also a passionate advocate for women entrepreneurs and hosts retreats in Valencia that help women build sustainable values aligned and location independent businesses.
00:01:33
Speaker
and she consults on intentional global transitions, which we will definitely be getting into today, guiding individuals towards fulfilling values, driven lives abroad. Christine, welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. I am really excited to chat with you and get into it. So thank you.
00:01:53
Speaker
I'm so happy you're here because a very important, popular, spicy topic, um amongst Black women has been, and particularly in the last six months after U.S. presidential election, but I mean really even before and for years and years, um because of politics and and social issues here in the United States.
00:02:17
Speaker
We've been really talking about what does it mean to move out of the United States, to live abroad, um And you've really built a platform and a career around supporting Black women in this space um and offering a lot of different perspectives, I think, which is um super important to have these nuanced conversations.
00:02:39
Speaker
So i'm wondering if you can share your journey. How did you end up in, you know, from Atlanta to Valencia, Spain? And why Spain? Why Valencia? Oh, my goodness. I'm going to try to keep it brief.
00:02:50
Speaker
But I'm a yapper, so you gotta to cut me off. So, um... too. I moved to... That's where to start. One, I always wanted to live abroad. I always wanted to live abroad ever since, at least and ever since I was 17. Like, I remember clearly having my birthday cake and everyone singing happy birthday and me looking around being like, wish I could live somewhere else. But it wasn't like against them. It was just like, I wanna be where the other people are.
00:03:18
Speaker
you know, I think it's because I have Trinidadian roots, immigrant roots from my father. um my My grandmother, his mother actually made the move from Trinidad to New York to work as domestic. She was the first person that she sent back for my father and my grandfather and everybody else then came.
00:03:40
Speaker
So I that's part, important part of the story. and think also my mother's side who are black American, But I always call them a small nomadic tribe of women that had no problem getting up and going from New York to Texas to California to Colorado to Atlanta.
00:03:57
Speaker
Whatever needs to happen, whatever the move was, they were making the move. And so i think that spirit of immigration and just movement is in me. And so i found myself in 2017 after graduating from law school in 2013, hustling, working for a startup in Miami, returning to Atlanta, grinding as an entrepreneur and just being like, when am I going to live my life the way I wanted to live it? Like, when am I going to make this this kind of move? And so I decided to move to Spain,
00:04:28
Speaker
And I picked Spain. Goodness, why did I pick Spain? Who knows? You know, I'll say this. um In 2014, I was supposed to move to Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.
00:04:41
Speaker
ah unseen for another startup. And I was like, yeah, I'm going to get out of here. i went to Miami because used live Miami and had a farewell party. I was like, see you suckers. I'll see when I see you, you know? Then...
00:04:55
Speaker
my visa fell through like the company like reneged on the offer and they were like just kidding i was living in the city of atlanta i had moved uh to the suburbs to be with my mom to like pack up my stuff because i was moving and i was just like yo this is not how my life is supposed to go i'm supposed to be fabulous supposed a jet setter and it was not i wasn't jet setting anywhere was in the suburbs and so on a whim I just was walking a mountain by my mom's house and i was just asking universe and God, I was like, what do you want from me?
Walking the Camino Santiago: A Spiritual Journey
00:05:29
Speaker
Asking is nice. i was yelling as much as I could while there was like, it's a public pass. so I was trying not to get like locked up and thrown into a padded room. But I was just like, what do you want from Like, I feel like I'm following, you know, spirit. I'm not a traditional lawyer. I'm going my own way. I'm doing these things and like things are not working out for me.
00:05:49
Speaker
And a really quiet, still voice came to me and said, walk the Camino Santiago. And I was like, no, what are you talking about? I'd only heard of that six months prior at a New Year's brunch with some of my friends. We've got together, we're talking about bucket list items.
00:06:08
Speaker
And I had a homegirl who was like, yeah, I want to walk the Camino Santiago. And I was like, what's that? She's like, yeah, you walk across Spain with only a backpack. And I was like, good luck, girl. That doesn't sound like fun at all. It was one of those things where like, I'm so happy for you. like I don't know.
00:06:23
Speaker
And so when it came to me, it was very strange because I was like, I didn't want to do that. But it it was something that wouldn't leave me and dogged me for like three days in a way that I've never experienced again.
00:06:38
Speaker
and I hadn't experienced prior to that. And so I felt compelled to like look it up and I looked it up and this is in 2014, so it wasn't as popular as it is now. And and didn't have all these websites and all these services. it was just like this rank, like this janky forum. And I was like, what is this?
00:06:57
Speaker
And I look at it and they're like, yeah, you walk across Spain for 30 something days. I was like, oh no, all of the insecurity, all of the excuses, like, oh, I'm just a woman. I'm feeble. I can't be doing with this. You know, I scroll down and there's this woman, this, you know, grandma, she's like, I'm 85 years old and this is the 15th Camino. And I'm like, oh no, I can't have a boy, you know, like play me to my face. Like, this is crazy.
00:07:23
Speaker
And so I just felt like, okay, I'll investigate it and this feeling will go away. and it didn't. I went to ah REI, I expected them to be like, girl, no.
00:07:35
Speaker
i mean, I know they're off there there to sell you things, but I also trust the REI people, because I feel like they be telling you stuff, right? They're like, you're you're gonna do it. This is perfect for you and dah, dah, dah. And I got outfitted and everything I needed. I was just like insane.
00:07:49
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um There was, and at the time in Atlanta, there was a captain of like the Camino Santiago club in Atlanta. And I was like, what? He, I i messaged him and I was expecting him to be like, no, you shouldn't do it. This is crazy. dada He had me meet him. he sent me the address.
00:08:08
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The address was a hospital. He had me meet him in the OR waiting room. He was waiting for his ex-wife to have this surgery. And he was like, I'm so glad you're doing this.
00:08:20
Speaker
Took off the, the, uh, I guess it's a St. James cross necklace off his neck, put it on mine, gave me ah a handful of euros and gave me a whole packing list.
00:08:32
Speaker
And I just thought to myself, you know, Christine, you'd be asking for signs and i don't know what else you want. Like this man is in the way that we were waiting for his ex-wife to do this surgery. He was like, no, come on down. You need this. seat Like you come and get this. And I was like, and so I, and that was in July 2014. And I left,
00:08:51
Speaker
And I landed in France to start the Camino in August of 2014, not even a full month. And I cried every single day until i I got, I mean, even when I got to France, I cried. And I'm not a crier.
00:09:05
Speaker
My mom, because I was staying with her, she was like, you don't have to do this. She was very confused. She was like, you do not have to do this. but and But I didn't. Yeah. Because I just felt compelled and I feel very grateful that The type of mother that I have, she instilled deep confidence in myself and to trust myself in everything that I do.
00:09:28
Speaker
So I'm the first person in my family on both sides to ever go to law school, graduate. I was the first black woman president of my law school class. I was the first person to get awarded the the degree on graduation.
00:09:42
Speaker
And then I was like, yeah, I'm not gonna be a lawyer. And she was like, but ah you and she let and she let me be. She let me be, right? Um, so I say all that to say i walked the Camino Santiago. It was a life affirming trip.
00:09:57
Speaker
It's not, it's, it's very much like any type of spiritual journey. yeah Um, I try not to say healing journey cause I think it's overused. And I think also sometimes people use as a crutch to always be healing. And I'm like, you don't always gotta be healing girl. You could just be enjoying your life.
00:10:14
Speaker
Um, but it's a spiritual journey. Like any spiritual journey is going to, make you confront yourself and ask the questions need be asked.
00:10:25
Speaker
And so I cried a lot. I lost some toenails. They came back, but I lost them. um And by the time, you know, I started on the French side, the Pyrenees, and I ended up on the Atlantic side, Atlantic coast of Spain, in on the beach.
00:10:41
Speaker
And by the time I got there, i finally realized what they were talking about when they're like, it's not the destination, it's the journey, the Capricorn. So I was like, I give a heck about the journey. I want to get to the things and accomplishments. That was a reframe for me because I realized, oh, I get what they mean. It is about their
Settling in Valencia: Finding Home
00:11:00
Speaker
journey.
00:11:00
Speaker
But more than that, I realized that I can do anything and not in a that not in a bravado type of way, but just in a, if i lean in the if I lean in the direction I want to go I'm consistent,
00:11:15
Speaker
um things will be brought up to me that I have to face that are going to help strengthen me and also clear the path so that I can get to that destination, but I can do it. I can handle it.
00:11:27
Speaker
And so that's so powerful. I did that. And, you know, I saw a lot of Spain and that's when I was like, Oh, come over you know, instead. And so three years later i moved to Spain and um,
00:11:42
Speaker
Yeah, that's all she wrote. I thought i was going to stay for a year, maybe two it's so It'll be eight in August. Girl, I don't know. one but Did you move? um Did you move to Valencia? Or was that just like you came to Valencia, were there are other places that you went? And you also said that it took you three years from that time of doing that trek.
00:12:05
Speaker
And that trek is so fascinating. like um I love how it was very spirit led, that you were like, oh, I asked for these signs. And I'm listening and I'm receiving these answers. So I'm i'm choosing actively to listen to the to the messages that I'm getting and to act on it, even if it seems absolutely bonkers and completely out of, you know, the realm of possibility or what we think is possible for ourselves.
00:12:33
Speaker
um And I can only imagine what, you know, what, 30 days hiking? Yeah. that spiritual journey. 33, 34, yeah. And were you by yourself? I mean, I went by myself, but you're never really alone in the world, you know?
00:12:48
Speaker
And the Camilo Frances, that route was always very popular. So there's always people with you, but, um, yeah, you're walking by yourself.
00:12:58
Speaker
Yeah. Wow. And were there like, where did you just sleep outside? Like what did, I'm so fascinated by this. No oh girl, I'm not outdoorsy like that, which people, they don't believe me. So it's like, but you do this now you hike. And I'm like, I'm not outdoorsy, which is crazy because I have a bunch of outdoorsy friends because they're the Camino and they'd be like, yeah, let's just go. And I'm like, I'm not like y'all. I like y'all.
00:13:22
Speaker
No. Um, I, on the Camino, there are hostels that are for the pilgrims because it's a pilgrimage and they're called albergues and they range in amenities from some being very sparse, you know, to some being like, you know, modern hostels with all the bells and whistles. And they also range in price range for each day or each night that you stay there. So I sit in albergues the entire time.
00:13:50
Speaker
um I was on the Camino and um it was, it was eyeopening. It was eyeopening. And to your point, it did take me three, to three years to actually move to Spain.
00:14:01
Speaker
And it took me three years because um I didn't want, and I wanted to move the way I wanted to move. And I thought I wanted to move, which was, um you know, I'd graduated from law school. i went to like a corporate move. I was like,
00:14:16
Speaker
I already have this business, but how could I do it abroad? I couldn't, I didn't really think like that. And then just got to the point where I was just like, am I ever going to make this move?
00:14:29
Speaker
And how am I going to make it? And i was in talks with a Dutch immigration attorney. to consider moving to the Netherlands, which would have been disastrous for me because I am so weather sensitive. I could never have lived in the Netherlands ever in my life, ever. like That would not have worked for me.
00:14:47
Speaker
um And then I found out about the Auxiliar de Conversacion ah which is like a language assistant program. And I was like, I'm not a teacher.
00:14:57
Speaker
I respect teachers. I can't just be going, you can just be putting these randos in these children's classrooms and stuff like that. But I was like, all right, I'm going to sign up for it. And I signed up for it and I got it. And so that's how I moved in 2017. When i ah landed, i was living in Barcelona for the first month and a half. And then I moved to La Coruña, which is in the La Rioja region in the central north part of Spain, a very famous wine region. And then I moved to Barcelona after that because Rioja and La Grano is very cute, but I was like, it's too small.
00:15:34
Speaker
know, I had too many people being like, I saw you somewhere and like, where you see me? Y'all can see me. You know what I mean? Like, no, I saw you in the park. And I was like, no, y'all can't talk to me like this. Okay. You can't, don't be seeing me.
00:15:47
Speaker
Um, So moved to Barcelona where I had a partner at the time and I lived there for three and a half years through the pandemic. And then I moved here to Valencia in 2021, in August, 2021, where I've been living for the past four years, um which has been really amazing.
00:16:05
Speaker
um But I will say that the journey has not been smooth, you know, like immigration is not easy. And I had no idea because I've never immigrated anywhere. So that's one thing.
00:16:19
Speaker
And then also finding a place that really suited me um takes time because you have to know yourself. And I thought I knew myself pretty well, but you really have to get to know yourself. You're always evolving. And I just realized that Valencia was just a better fit for me. And so that's how I ended up here. i i love that. And that's so real that... um It is like, what is it, like Goldilocks and the Three Bears or whatever, where it's like, this is like too hot, too cold, too soft, too, you know.
00:16:49
Speaker
And that's like part of the calibration. um and that's part of like the adventure, I think, of also um living in different places, whether it's, you know, in the U.S. or if it's in your city, in different neighborhoods, or if it's different places.
00:17:04
Speaker
you know, parts of a country or different countries. um I really, i want to lift up what you were saying about things being, you know, it wasn't smooth because I think that a lot of the conversation is very romanticized.
Living Abroad: Reality vs. Romanticism
00:17:18
Speaker
Like it's, um I'm grateful, deeply, deeply, deeply, deeply grateful for the times that I've lived um abroad. And I know that there will be more, you know, and i I try to spend time like a month at a time outside of the U.S.
00:17:35
Speaker
um you know, ah as as much as possible, ah just to have that little like, ah what is it? It's like a detox kind of, you know, um and it's a reset and it prepares me to like come back to the States and like be in the mix and, you know, on this, in this rhythm of the U.S., which is very um intense and frenetic,
00:18:00
Speaker
um frustrating. However, you know, and and what's exciting about this time is that I think more Black women are considering like really actually like, oh no, this might be the time for me to go, or this might be actually something I can do.
00:18:16
Speaker
But um with all the freedom and the quality of life, there are challenges. So if you'd be willing to speak about what some of those challenges were, I mean, you as an entrepreneur, you were in relationships.
00:18:31
Speaker
I'm really curious. And I think that would be helpful ah to a lot of the the listeners who I know are considering or thinking about what does this look like in reality for me? Absolutely. I'm, I'm a big believer in that you can have a joyful experience and experience can bring you contentment without you needing to overly romanticize something and sell yourself a dream that ended breaking your own heart, which is what, and the reason why I, I stress that so much on my own podcast is that I did these things and I don't want anyone else to do them. Right.
00:19:07
Speaker
So when I first moved to Spain, i I was in Barcelona for the first month and a half. At this time in 2017, actually the week that I landed, i landed on a Tuesday. On Thursday, there was a terrorist attack on Las Ramblas.
00:19:22
Speaker
Las Ramblas in Catalonia. Right? The major pathway. Yes. Which is, that's part of life. Terrorist attacks, you know? Like that happened. I live in New Orleans. Yes. Right.
00:19:33
Speaker
Which is unexpected. Like you wouldn't, you wouldn't expect that here. I'm from New York and you're like, okay, that's a thing that happens there, you know? And, and that's the thing. So, um, that was crazy.
00:19:45
Speaker
And then the rhetoric for the independence movement in Catalonia really heated up. And the crazy thing is that I was in, I moved to Spain in August, but I was in Barcelona in May.
00:19:58
Speaker
Um, and I had, uh, met up with like a pen pal that I had for a while and he is Valenciano but he was living in Catalonia and then he had a friend who was Catalan and so I was like what do you guys think about this independence movement they were like no it's nothing you you're worrying about nothing because I'm like I'm into geopolitics I'm a student of history so I was like really and they're like yeah it's nothing flash flash forward to August the rhetoric starts picking up more and more and more I'm going on my morning runs
00:20:30
Speaker
um And I was living close to de Triomphe, which is close to the Palacio de Justicia and also the Parliament building. And so every day in August and in September, I start seeing the environment change.
00:20:45
Speaker
Right. One is just free and whatever I'm running. Then there starts becoming barricades. Then there starts to have police presence. Then the police... are having their guns out.
00:20:55
Speaker
Then the military coming out with these huge guns. And I was like, I don't know, I did not move from United States to come for this. You know what I mean? Yes. I leave on September 30th, on October 1st, that Sunday was the referendum, illegal referendum, in which a lot of the images were splattered across the world where they saw, you know, grandmas getting beaten, people being pulled out of um election booths and things like that.
00:21:21
Speaker
that is something that you can't romanticize. People live places. People have political grievances everywhere that you go.
00:21:33
Speaker
And they're not going to stop because you're like, oh, wait, but I just want to drink sangria on a terraza. Like you're living in a city that's living and
Community and Representation in Teaching
00:21:42
Speaker
breathing. And um although I have a whole thing about like assimilation, I'm not really ah about that. I think integration and respect is one thing, but I'm not ever trying to assimilate personally.
00:21:55
Speaker
Um, but you have to understand that there was place, this place had people and things going on before you got there. This is not Emily in Paris. Like you're not the main character of this scenario. Right.
00:22:11
Speaker
So that happened. I moved to LaGroña and that was really cool and interesting. Um, But you know, I'm teaching children and I've never taught children before. And I was like, this is fascinating. Like at the time, none my friends had kids. So i was like, oh my God, these little people are two feet tall. I'm like, this is insane. Like, why are you so small? And why you so sticky? Like, it's all that. I i worked at two different schools as their language conversationalist teacher.
00:22:44
Speaker
And one of the schools was called the immigrant school. And that was a black and brown school in the city. And some of these kids were first generation, but a lot of them were not. They were second generation.
00:22:55
Speaker
And they had never had a teacher that was of any other ethnicity except for white Spanish. So when I walk in and I'm speaking perfect English, they're like, why do you speak English?
00:23:07
Speaker
Wow. Why do you speak English? And why are you the teacher? And what do you mean you were a lawyer? And what do you mean you've done all these things and you've seen the world, these things, you know what i mean? And that was really important because again, if you move to someplace, you romanticize it, you're basically, it's basically an extractive energy. You're like, everything should be about me and it should be just whatever I think it should be.
00:23:34
Speaker
That experience really rooted me in the importance that we have in reciprocity, right? We have, we have to be in relationship with community. I didn't know at the time that those kids and those teachers needed to see me.
00:23:49
Speaker
They needed to be like, oh, Christine is, yeah, Christine is here. And guess what? I'm affirming all these black and brown faces because you don't need to feel Spanish, y'all. Y'all speak French, Arabic,
00:24:03
Speaker
Some, we had some Romanian kids, y'all speak all these other languages plus Spanish. And now you speak English, go off. Like you don't, need don't worry about being Spanish, y'all Spanish, but don't worry about being Spanish. You know what saying? Like you guys have a lot going on and to affirm them, that was really important part, right?
00:24:20
Speaker
Because at that time when I was in La Cronio, I still was, I was having this really impactful experience, but I was also floating a lot because I was still very much caught up in what my life should look like and where I should be.
00:24:35
Speaker
I graduated from law school. All my friends from law school are working at big law firms, making real money that I'm like, oh, oh wow. That's what else did you buy? Oh, let me just salivate. Like I can't buy those things.
00:24:50
Speaker
The people I went to high school with are all engineers and doctors. i was just like, and I'm living in Spain teaching. Wow. And I bring that up because I think it's important that people know that when I moved abroad, i didn't move abroad with intention.
00:25:07
Speaker
moved abroad because I was burnt out. I moved abroad because it was a long held dream and I want to do something else. And if I'm being honest, I thought, yeah, this is cool. This is interesting. This is different. This is who I am. This is my identity. Right. like But that doesn't last long. That doesn't satiate you. That doesn't keep you warm at night because you have to be with yourself. And I was really struggling because I was like,
00:25:30
Speaker
What am I doing here? Am I wasting my time? Am i you know, just messing about? Like, what is this? And that was a hard pill to swallow because I had to, in that moment, especially in LeGronio, I had to say, whose life are you living?
00:25:46
Speaker
And who are you performing for, Christine? You're not even posting on Instagram like that. So you're performing for people who can't even see you and you're you're anticipating what they're going to think and the criticisms.
00:25:58
Speaker
What are you doing? I thought you were trying to live a different life. I thought you were following the spirit that you said, I i don't want to practice. I want to do this. I want to do this. I want to do. So what are we doing? ah What are we going to commit to Right?
00:26:10
Speaker
What a level of self-awareness, you know, like, That stripping down, and and I think it's the comparison journey or like the comparison that, and I don't know how old you were at this time, but that also this expectation of these timelines that were given, particularly as women, you know, um and also high achieving black women too.
00:26:31
Speaker
You know, like we're on a, sometimes on this hamster wheel where we're just like, got to keep achieving. gotta to keep you know like I have these degrees i have these things like and and that there's a i love how you talked about the like performance of it and the some level of, i i don't know, people pleasing. that's I will speak for myself that there's a level of of that, but this external validation.
00:26:55
Speaker
When, you know, I'm willing to bet a lot of your doctor, engineer, lawyer friends were like, dang, Christine is doing it. You know what I mean? Like they might be making tons of money, but like the exchange of money and freedom, you know, when you work in those like high intensity spaces, I'm sure that there, are some of them were looking at you like, yo, Christine, like is really like living her best life and living out loud.
00:27:21
Speaker
Meanwhile, you're just like, I'm figuring it out as I go. You know, that's the thing. I think people, other people romanticize my experience.
00:27:32
Speaker
And of course that works well for me because they think I'm cool and I'm a rogue, I'm a bohemian. And they're just like, wow, Christine really does whatever the heck she wants to do and dah, dah, dah. That's fine. Like, you know, that type of validation
Living Abroad: Challenges and Wellness
00:27:47
Speaker
doesn't last long.
00:27:48
Speaker
I always talk about like things are either cotton candy or they're like real food. You know what i mean? Like at some point you gotta to have some real food. You gotta to have a protein, a carb, a fat, like, you know, cotton candy is good, but it is, it will dissolve instantly in your mouth.
00:28:03
Speaker
Right. doesn't bring anything to you. And so I had to have that wake up call. I had to say, I own this life. This is my life.
00:28:15
Speaker
I made this decision. I have to own it. And i cannot live for anyone else. And I have to figure out what the heck am I doing here? And how am I going to make it worth my while? and if I'm not supposed to be here, then I need to make the next move. And I can't worry about what anybody's going to say about it.
00:28:32
Speaker
And that's when I really started anchoring myself in a deeper purpose for for me. I think what I was probably feeling and not being able to express was that freedom that you mentioned. I wanted to live my life on my own terms. You know, i'm from the South, I'm Black American, from the South Caribbean. That's a lot of other people's expectations.
00:28:54
Speaker
I mean, like, there's a lot of things going on where a lot of people would be like, And I left when I was 30. So a lot of people were like, why aren't you married? They were like, you're so cute and you're so smart. Why aren't you married? And I was like, what? i you what I didn't think I was defective. But a lot of people were like, that doesn't make any sense.
00:29:16
Speaker
Like you should be married and dah, dah. And I was like, it's not what I wanted. So I had to own it And I think that's something I have to express to your audience and anyone who's thinking about moving abroad. Moving abroad.
00:29:29
Speaker
is not going to cure all that ails you, your insecurities, your, your hurts, your traumas or anything. If anything, it brings it all up to the surface. yeah I'm not sure the science behind that, but it does. Like, I don't know why, but the I think it's because there's nothing to hide behind any any familiarity and there's nothing for you to be distracted by because the process of living abroad requires you think probably forever, but definitely in the first like five years, you are radically present to everything at all times.
00:30:04
Speaker
Everything is new and different. You're trying to translate. You're trying to understand. You're trying to understand different nuances. Cause you're like, you said this, but your face looks like that. Now i don't know what the hell you're talking about. Like you are radically present, right? um And so to utilize that for your good,
00:30:24
Speaker
is that is how you can anchor yourself in purpose, right? i always say living abroad can be a pathway to wellness. It's not necessarily a pathway to wellness, like always, but it can be. And it's often, i think this is what I'm exploring in the book. I think it can only be a pathway to wellness um if you lean into the dissonance that it creates and do the dissonance, allow that to kind of amplify that radical present awareness to then utilize conscious decision-making to plant seeds of the life that you want to live and then to cultivate them. Because that's really the gift of living abroad is that you're in a different society. You are in society, but you're not necessarily of society. And no matter how much you want to
00:31:14
Speaker
be integrated or assimilated into society, whether you're on the continent or if you're in Europe, everyone's going to be like, you're other. It it don't matter. And I wish people would understand that too. And they never want to hear me when I say that. I try to bring other people who have been on the continent to tell them and they're like, no i don't want to hear that. and I'm like, all right, well, don't.
00:31:33
Speaker
You're going find out. You'll find out. But there's that's a gift. It's a gift to be othered in this different space and not your home space, right? If you're othered in your home space, that's a deep injury. You're othered in this other space, in this foreign space.
00:31:50
Speaker
It actually just gives you it gives you the room to make decisions. People just want you to respect the culture and abide by the laws. Pay your taxes and that's it, okay? And everything else, they're like,
00:32:02
Speaker
I don't know. That's weird. I guess because you're a foreigner and they will, you know what I mean? Like basically that's it. No one's trying to can make you conform.
Coaching Black Women on Moving Abroad
00:32:10
Speaker
They're like, you're a foreigner. And however you feel about that, if you're like, don't fight it.
00:32:15
Speaker
Utilize that room that they're giving you to then cultivate a life well lived on your own terms. ah is That is the, that I believe is the wellness. And I think that is the space, the very fertile space for cultivating a life well lived, but it has nothing to do with how cheap the wine is here. i mean, it's excellent produce.
00:32:35
Speaker
You do have access to healthcare care system, but most foreigners like myself, we have private healthcare anyway. You got to pay for it. That's part of your visa. yeah You know what I mean? Like a lot of things that people try to hype up, that's not really the thing. The thing is that it gives you, perhaps it frees up the resources and gives you the room for you then to redirect your labor into cultivating something that works for you.
00:33:01
Speaker
instead of having to expend your labor trying to explain to people why you are worthy or you deserve to be part of everyone else, I'm not othered. This is a different type of experience.
00:33:13
Speaker
yeah um And so I think that's really important. That's really powerful. and It's, yes, stepping out of the context of United States racism and like racial dynamics frees up so much mental, physical, emotional, spiritual energy to, like you said, delve into those deeper questions.
00:33:36
Speaker
you know I like see so much, especially with everything that's happening politically, the survival mode that a lot of folks are in here. um And that takes a lot of energy. Like, it just, it's a laser focus. It's just like, I'm trying to survive. I'm trying to make it. I have bills. I have kids. I have responsibilities, you know? um And so there isn't that time to, and again, you're in the midst of this, like,
00:34:04
Speaker
systemic racialized context that's like based on nothing. It's just like made up terrible. And i mean, 400 years of it, but like it's, you're stuck in these these boxes and and these identities.
00:34:20
Speaker
And I love what you were just saying, this idea of being an other in a different ah different place and to like lean into that and not feel some kind of way about it. Cause I think there is probably like that knee jerk reaction to be like,
00:34:34
Speaker
excuse you know what i mean? Like, you know, feeling some kind of way about it, but it really does open the door for that self reflection and like seeing ourselves. And I think particularly as like what American privilege looks like outside of being a black American in the United States or like the ways that there's not particularly, there's not that privilege here.
00:34:57
Speaker
And I think that that's something that we see people navigate in good ways and like you know, not so great ways sometimes. So I'm wondering, you know, with the coaching you do, what are some of the things that really seem to come up for you, um, that people are concerned about? Cause you're working with black women, but what are some of those concerns that come up or like things that folks are grappling with as they're considering moves abroad? And do you, is it that you're only working with folks who want to go to Spain or is it just kind of like wherever they want to go? I've worked with people who want to go where, wherever.
00:35:33
Speaker
Okay. Not just Spain, but wherever. And I've even, I've coached people who don't identify as black or as a woman. um with it And I feel proud that I created a space where they asked very nicely before they, they they were like, I really like your podcast, but I just want to see, is this available to me? Cause I really want to talk to you. And I was like, wow, yes, yes, I will work with you. Come, come.
00:35:55
Speaker
Come on, Brandon. Yeah, I appreciate that. And I think that's also I mean, that's a conversation for another day when people, you know, disparage like these black spaces or like, why is it only for this? And I'm like, because we have the sauce, we have the nuance.
00:36:12
Speaker
And then people want to always go over our shoulder like what y'all talking about? Actually, this is excellent. And like, yeah, y'all should pay us the fires and let us lead the way. You know what I'm saying? Because my podcast is a lot of people's favorite podcasts and they are not, they don't identify as black or woman. And they're like, no, this is, this is that thing. And I'm like, I know, I know.
00:36:33
Speaker
I will say this, a lot things, a lot of things that come up because I do work with women. And a lot of things that come up is that negotiation with family.
00:36:48
Speaker
and um And that is quite difficult because I think as we all know, women just bear the brunt of so much um unseen, obviously and undervalued emotional, physical labor in families, regardless if they have children, regardless if they have partners or not.
00:37:08
Speaker
Like that's just the thing. And so a lot of women are like, I want to do something, but me doing something for myself and deciding to change my life. It's going to change other people's lives and they don't like that. you know Or I don't know how to negotiate that with them.
00:37:24
Speaker
And you know i I'm really curious about, and I write about this in the book, about black girls' soft life, the thought about soft life. Because i just I like it. i like I like it as an aesthetic, one.
00:37:36
Speaker
Like give me more cottagecore, give me more black women frolicking in lavender. That's cute, I love that. yeah But my thing is always, it has to go, beyond pictures. It has to go beyond that type of representation.
00:37:50
Speaker
It has to become and embodiment. And that embodiment of soft life has nothing to do with sitting and eating bonbons. It has everything to do with holding yourself accountable and having boundaries and being okay, physically and mentally and emotionally okay, disappointing other people. And a lot of people never expected me to say that.
00:38:14
Speaker
They're like, I'm just going to do what I want and it's going to be soft life and ease. And I'm like, because a lot of y'all can't disappoint people. And that's where a lot of your burdens and your hard life comes from.
00:38:26
Speaker
That's a word. So I think that's one of the biggest things I work with these women. It's like, you want this soft life. Y'all listen to the podcast. Y'all know what I mean by soft life. But you're like, yeah, but I really just want to drink wine. Everybody thinks I just be like on the terrazzo, like drinking all day. And although my first year abroad, that was true, but i didn't have a podcast.
00:38:49
Speaker
I'm not doing that. Okay. A lot of people, I think they just think like, Christine's just out there with a kava and da da da. Christine will be in her house by this computer working. Okay.
00:39:00
Speaker
I will say i open up my balcony doors. I will hear Spanish guitar, but I'm in Spain. Okay. That will happen. That will happen. That's what let goes on. but the soft light that people are craving,
00:39:13
Speaker
has nothing to do with that, right? Because that if you get that on vacation. You want a life well lived. You want to experience parts of yourself you've never experienced, right? Maybe parts of yourself you never knew, like bare fruit that you didn't know that were inside of you. yeah That's part of soft life. Requires you to disappoint people.
00:39:33
Speaker
And it requires you to stop disappointing yourself in in the name of martyrdom, in the name of being a good daughter, in the name of fill in the blank. right?
00:39:44
Speaker
And I, I, I'm talking about this in the book because i go back to history and i I, look at the great migration, which is the migration of black Americans from the South to the North and to the West, but also the Windrush generation from the Caribbean, um, the Caribbean, from the car Caribbean to, uh, the UK.
00:40:05
Speaker
a And, you know, I'm, Mulling over this thought of to go abroad and be well, to have a soft life, if that's what you think, that that's your wellness, necessarily requires you to give up wellness, right?
00:40:22
Speaker
So the wellness that you could give up is one, being understood in your cultural context. Like the more i'm out, and The more I'm abroad, the more I'm like, I am so Atlanta is ridiculous. And I just, I don't know. Like, it's the more I'm out, I'm like, I'm so Atlanta. I'm so Southern.
00:40:39
Speaker
I'm so Caribbean. I'm like, this is, i don't know what's going on. You know? And people be like, you're different, different type of American. I'm like, I'm, cause I'm not just American as you understand it. I'm not saved by the bell. I'm not, you know what be like? Watch or whatever.
00:40:55
Speaker
But if we look to history, when Black Southerners were leaving the South, fleeing the South because they were being racially menaced and terrorized, they were giving up wellness. One type of wellness, they were giving up their um agrarian culture, right? Which was very much working with and on the land and living a life that was in sync with the seasons. Also that deep community, communal living, ah the story, kind of lore and oral storytelling of that as well, to go to the North to pursue type
00:41:31
Speaker
some type of peace, hopefully some equity and equality, but also aspiring to like white affluence, right? That was kind of said, this could be possible for you, but we all know that's not true because they move the goalpost.
00:41:47
Speaker
So there's that. You go, so you leave that behind to go to the North to work in factories that, you know, your physical wellbeing isn't dictated the same as it would be in agrarian culture of if you are well enough to work Right. So that's a different thing.
00:42:05
Speaker
You're disconnected from the seasons. Right. um You don't work on the land and you're not passing those um really important like stories and and history and knowledge of not only community, but also land to your your kids.
00:42:23
Speaker
So they don't know anything about home remedies and all these things. So now you're giving all those things up. to be in a space where you're not going to ever attain or not all, not everyone's going to attain white affluence.
00:42:35
Speaker
um You're disconnected. And now only maybe two generations, people be like, black farmers, that's new. You're like, what the hell? Right? You know?
00:42:46
Speaker
So, so then the question comes, you know, is, is the wellness you gave up worth the wellness that you sought and you, you, you received, right? And the same thing could be,
00:42:58
Speaker
asked of the winter generation, which is, I mean, that one is a little bit more complicated. You have deportations. You got a lot of craziness going on, but you know, you have these islands, you have these people who are deciding, I need to go back to mother England and I need to help them rebuild after world war ii And my kids can have a better education. They're going to be you know, all these things. And then you have to ask yourself as you're eating, you know,
00:43:26
Speaker
beans and toast you're giving up mango and you know, some good food. You know what I'm saying? I mean, now I know we have their creepy cuisine up there, but you know, so not the same. Is the wellness worth it?
00:43:41
Speaker
And I think I bring that up because I think that's something for people to understand. it And I talk to people about that. What would make it worth it? What would make whatever it is that you are giving up,
00:43:53
Speaker
worth it. And that has to be the vision of the life well lived that you are actively cultivating, right? And you are aligning yourself, whether it be in a place, a certain kind of value system or what have you, that you are seeking and you are working towards.
00:44:11
Speaker
That's the type of reframe um or a type of mindset that you have to go abroad in order to make it worthwhile for you to be actually really real for yourself and not have these like it's just going to be better.
00:44:24
Speaker
yeah It's just going to be better. You're like, better how? you know and and And so that you don't sell yourself a dream. So that's, I would say, I have lots of other things that think people ask me about, but that is the core, is and so what wellness are you willing to give up and what are you willing to do and what would make it worth it?
00:44:43
Speaker
That's really timely, especially because umm I'm really appreciating the intentionality um And the like, I'm going to take you on the like, you know, 50,000 foot level or like, or maybe it's the opposite. Maybe it's like, I'm going to take you to the roots.
00:44:59
Speaker
Like, what is this really about for you?
Intentional Living amidst Global Politics
00:45:03
Speaker
And I think especially now that's extremely important because We're in a fear cycle, particularly the realities of what is happening. And it's been interesting to watch over the last, what has been six months since the election, US election.
00:45:19
Speaker
You know, there was so much, quicklyly literally like the day after the election, people were putting out just like, um Like really feeding that fear body of like, oh, you ready to leave? Like, come on and buy this course and do this thing and make your plans and call me, I'm a lawyer and blah, blah, blah, blah. blah And I'm like, yo, calm down.
00:45:38
Speaker
You know what I'm saying? Like, just first of all, give people a minute to like process what's actually happening, but to like, you know, making decisions from that fear place is, regardless of what it is in your life, is never going to end up well.
00:45:51
Speaker
You know, like that's not that's not wise. And so I'm really appreciating how you're like, no, there's layers and levels to this. There should, you know, and again, i think you You were very frank in saying, hey, I moved and I didn't really know what I was doing, but it was a process that you went through and and worked through so that you can create a life that you love so that you can live with intention and that you can set yourself up for success in a myriad of ways.
00:46:17
Speaker
And. um What I'm really interested in is how this is the current U.S. context, geopolitically, how is that impacting, you know, the the work with your clients and also your own life in in in Spain? And a friend of mine, um she was on a previous episode of the podcast, having this conversation about, like, Black women moving and living abroad.
00:46:41
Speaker
She's in Portugal and she sent out an email and she was talking about like recent elections and how things went right, you know, in terms of, of, of that piece. But at the same time, you know, reaffirming her again, intentionality, her quality of life, but acknowledging the complexities of, you know,
00:47:03
Speaker
and I think this gets lost sometimes, is that we don't what happens in the United States, especially us as Americans or you know folks from the US, is going to impact global politics.
00:47:14
Speaker
So to your point, you can go somewhere. One, you can't run away from yourself. If anything, like you said, your yourself is going to be like, hey, hey girl, I'm here. You've been trying to outrun me.
00:47:26
Speaker
you know, but also that how the politics of the United States, you can't really escape that either. So I'm curious what you're seeing in terms of clientele and just, you know, daily life conversations, tariffs.
00:47:43
Speaker
Yeah. I, I, I have a lot more people who are interested in, in building businesses who are like, we've got to figure this out. yeah I would say that, um,
00:47:57
Speaker
How does it affect me? i mean, you nailed We live in an interconnected world in which the United States has been the top dog or one of the top dogs for a very long time, least within our lifetime. And um it's it eye-opening.
00:48:18
Speaker
Well, not eye-opening. I kind of expected some of these things. But one, a lot of people are recalibrating away from the United States. probably as they should have been though. So there's that. um On the ground though, I guess this is where being a black American is so clutch because this is I swear you you only feel the the weight of being an American outside of the United States or the privilege of it.
00:48:45
Speaker
Yes. Because, you know, when the the after the day after the election, I went to one of my favorite bakeries and, um, There was ah another giddy, which is like a, i don't think it's serogatory, but it's ah it's a name for a foreigner. And he was like, yeah, it was just a horrible day. and it was well it i was just like, all right. You know, it was a white man. So, you know, it was that.
00:49:14
Speaker
And then I get up there and they know me. They're like, oh, hey, Chrissy. And they're just like, you okay? And I was like, chilling. And they're like, all right. I actually think that for at least like the younger generation, the the generations here in Spain that actually interface with more foreigners, they understand the distinction of the experience between, or at least they they are starting to understand the distinction or there are distinctions between the experience of a black American or white American. So they're just like, wow, can't believe these white people did this to y'all.
00:49:47
Speaker
Okay. Y'all know, y'all know what it is. ah But um I think... it does it It does create a lot of concern or there's a lot more pep in your step on some things, right? A lot of us, a lot of my friends around Europe, we're already gonna get second citizenships. And now we're like, oh, we gotta lock it.
00:50:08
Speaker
got space Gotta to get the second citizenship or the third. Like I'm in the process of getting my Trinidadian passport. So um there's that. And also being even more proactive. When you live like in Southern Europe i think I assume it's similar in Portugal and Italy, but here in Spain, where things take 5 million years, like you have to be so proactive on things. So you're just like, you know what, let me just go ahead and renew this early. You know what, let me just go ahead and do that.
00:50:35
Speaker
Like I went and I sent off my passport to get renewed. Usually only takes like two weeks, if anything. And I'm like, oh, I don't know when this thing's going to come back. I hope the embassy in Madrid gets it done. You know, I'm hoping it to come back this week, but we will see. like yeah It requires you to really start thinking just even more strategically, you know?
00:51:00
Speaker
say this, since I've lived abroad, the United States has not only disappointed me, but broken my heart every year. And in a way that, I know lot of people are like, oh just F the States and da-da-da.
00:51:13
Speaker
But I think you'll be surprised at how much connection you have to a place. And by their decisions, you're like, oh, so you really don't give an F about me. Oh, you really don't ever be like that? You really don't ever be like, for real, for real?
00:51:26
Speaker
Wow, wow. And I feel like i've I've felt that every single year of of living abroad. um I'll honestly say, I guess it was a bubble that i was in. I only wasn't in a social media bubble. Like I got just voted. I did my early ballot and sent it off. I was like, all right, y'all, got, you know, things to do. Plus in late October here in Valencia, we had these horrible floods. So like my brain was somewhere else. Like, so when the elections happened, I was like, oh, so y'all really hate everyone. Like I was,
00:52:00
Speaker
I was surprised or shocked. I was just like, oh, so you will burn down your house in order to F everyone over. hu Interesting.
00:52:11
Speaker
um But that's the thing, like living abroad, you don't actually escape the politics the United States. I mean, I had some um friends that I know that were in taxis that were like, don't worry about Donald Trump.
00:52:24
Speaker
you Give him some time. They're like, don't. Talk to me, taxi man. If you want to get, if you don't want me to run off with your fare, it's going to be like that. and And I mean, that's what's also so insidious that this, you know, nationalism's weirdness is an infection going around the world and we'll just see how far it spreads.
00:52:44
Speaker
A lot of countries have different safeguards that they're just not willing to go the way of the United States because they have like social safety nets of people like, Oh wait, as soon as you start messing with my money, my, my pension, my healthcare, everything will be ablaze. And they're actually about that.
00:53:02
Speaker
Right. Um, so it's, you can't escape it. You can't escape it at all. And I think that, I mean, I'm not a white American, so I can't speak for them, but what I would infer is that they're having a hard time, especially if they're abroad, maybe,
00:53:20
Speaker
because they don't know a world where they're not the top dog. They're the top dog in America and in the world. That's right. So now they're like, wait, what if someone else is a top dog? What's going to happen? And you're like, I'm like, don't how to learn Mandarin. I guess I'll be all right. like You know what I mean? ah it out But their assumption is that they're going to be oppressed, which I'm like, you tell on yourself every day. You tell on yourself every I'm just like,
00:53:49
Speaker
all right, so I'll learn Mandarin. I'll be all right. Like, I will figure it out, you know? they' that's their That's the thing. So I think, you know, that's always an interesting, when I do encounter white Americans, which I don't a lot. The ones that are really freaked out, they're like, oh my God, can you believe? And da, da, you know? I'm like, like yeah, I can.
00:54:14
Speaker
Yeah, this feels... I know life. Yeah. Like... This is the decadent period. The decadence of any any country is a decline. This the has to go down. They're like, it can't possibly go down. I'm like, it is.
00:54:28
Speaker
It is. So, yeah. yeah yeah Yep. Well, on that note, I definitely, um this was so rich. Like, I'm just, I'm really grateful for this conversation at this time. And I feel like it's going to be really, really,
00:54:44
Speaker
useful for you know the listeners. And you know I've had personal conversations with women that I've known for a long time about, you know have seen me kind of move and groove and be in different spaces and live in different countries and places.
American Identity and Nationalism Abroad
00:54:59
Speaker
um and are now starting to think about it you know as safeguards for themselves. um And so how can folks, if they want to work with you, you know connect with you more?
00:55:13
Speaker
um And I would encourage people to do that. I really do. I think that um you have a lot to offer. I think your perspective is so important. um And you're doing like an a legit service to to help people prepare.
00:55:30
Speaker
um and really be mindful, really, really be mindful. um And set again, like I've said this before, set them up for success because i was looking at threads, was it today? And there was a post that a friend tagged me in and she the person was saying like, you know, not enough people talk about the challenges of moving abroad and particularly when you're dealing with things and you don't have your, and you said this earlier, the familiarity of a place, but also like your family, your besties, your family,
00:56:00
Speaker
you know, whoever, your person at the post office that you know, or the mechanic that you love and you've known since you've been, you know, 16, and that that that's not um talked about enough.
00:56:13
Speaker
um So how can folks work with you? How can they reach out to you? I'm going to, of course, post the the link to your podcast, which is fantastic. Um, tell the, tell the folks how to find you.
00:56:25
Speaker
Yeah. Um, but to your point, I think a lot of people talk about it living abroad, not being easy. It's just not what's sexy. It's not what is on TikTok.
00:56:37
Speaker
It's not what's on the reds or IG. It's not, it's not IG sexy. And, and a lot of people have to admit that they don't want to hear that. They want hear that. Right. That's right. Um, they don't want to hear that they will have to,
00:56:51
Speaker
get some resilience and move on or or stay home. um so front out like right Like you got to be curious and you got to have resilience. I'll also say that those of you who are thinking about moving abroad, i want you to think about it as um how it is how it it may affect your lineage. Right.
00:57:12
Speaker
And mil lot of people don't think like that. My grandmother moved to the United States in the seventies. I would not exist if she had not done that, like straight up. Okay.
00:57:24
Speaker
So think about how that will change your lineage and just think about how you feel about that. Right. And a lot of people don't think about migration like that. Like if you're from Chicago, but your family is really from Mississippi, think about how you living in Chicago changed things.
00:57:43
Speaker
And that's only one or two generations or you from Louisiana or or your family's from Louisiana, but you live in California. Like, think about that because it's very, it's the same.
00:57:54
Speaker
It's not a vacation. That's right. and And to your point, we didn't really get to talk about it, but living abroad as pathway to wellness is one thing. Living abroad as a pathway to liberation is also something very different as well, right?
00:58:09
Speaker
Liberation has to, is is a praxis, I think, and living abroad can be that praxis, but it has to be exercised and it has to be something that's fitted for you.
00:58:23
Speaker
But you have to want to get free as well. You can't want to move to Portugal and try to bring and recreate Atlanta, okay? There's only one Atlanta.
00:58:33
Speaker
Forever I love Atlanta. No matter The slander people have of my city. I know the real city, okay? but Forever I love Atlanta. But you cannot expect that and you cannot want to do that because you are then participating in American imperialism. And a lot of Americans, and a lot of Black Americans don't understand that we are steeped in it.
00:58:55
Speaker
So you have to be cognizant. to be able to even try to unlearn and not to replant that, right? That goes into colonization, that goes into, you know, gentrification. Can black people participate?
00:59:07
Speaker
Black people can be American imperialists. Yes. But that's a conversation for another day, right? we'llll We'll come back to that another time. I will have you back on because I talk about this all the time, all the time. yeah And I will come back and gladly talk to you about Because that's why I'm like, people people want to want this book. And I'm like, don't know if you're going to like this book because I'm going to.
00:59:28
Speaker
I'm going say what I feel. You know what I mean? It's not going to be like, how to move abroad. That's not the book. Ration, especially within a context of racialized, a system, a systematized racial caste system of the United States, which, i mean, you can extrapolate to other parts of the world, but we'll say with the United States, why would you want to take that abroad? But you're going to say minus the racism when we know that There's nothing minus the racism because the racism is the whole point.
00:59:57
Speaker
Therefore, moving abroad, living abroad as a pathway to liberation has to be an act of daydreaming, dreaming of something new, a different paradigm, and then building it into that vision.
01:00:11
Speaker
That's what you have to seek. If not, you just want to go on vacation, which is fine. Just go on vacation and go back to the States. Don't expect it to be Emily in Paris.
01:00:22
Speaker
You are not white.
01:00:25
Speaker
You know, but anti-blackness is global. global ah There's a lot of things going on. Can you leverage your, you know, there's there's a talk about can you can you be an ah can you not be an American imperialist and leverage your American passport?
01:00:41
Speaker
It's conversation I'm willing to have and I have it in my book too. about when how to leverage privilege and is it Black people can never leverage their privilege and da-da-da-da. I have thoughts on that. People might disagree, but I feel like getting where you fit in, but being conscious and be able to utilize the tools that you have in order to to recreate and reimagine and create a space of where you can dream, place where you can actually rest, a place where you can experience a soft life that, again, has something that's more than consumerism.
01:01:14
Speaker
And I love consumerism. i always tell people before, before the, before the target strike, I was like, I miss target. I miss just going in there and buying things. I don't mean, I miss it, you know, so there's that, but soft life is not consumerism right for it to be sustainable, for it to be impactful for black people, black women. It has to be embodiment.
01:01:36
Speaker
And the embodiment is a paradigm shift. It's a mind shift. It's boundaries with yourself. It's discipline with yourself on how you're going to behave and act and you how you're going to leverage your time, your energy, your attention, your labor, and how you're going to intentionally um execute those and enact those.
01:01:56
Speaker
So I said all that to say that if that sounds interesting to you, because this is what you're going to get. If you want something else, go to somebody else. like If you're looking for I don't know because generally anyone else I follow in this space are legit people.
01:02:12
Speaker
But if you're looking for something like move abroad in 30 days or some nonsense, go to that. i like Do that. That's not what this is. If you want to work with me, I have a course. I have a one-on-one program, which I am going to discontinue in 2025. So if y'all want to get in, come on. Get on it right now. Come on.
01:02:35
Speaker
If you want to start off slow, get my Move Abroad with Intention guide. You can get that at Flourishinofloreign.com for all my guides. I'm actually gonna put up some more resources that I have up there.
01:02:48
Speaker
you want to work with me one-on-one, you'll learn about that at Flourishinofloreign.com. If you want to get on my book wait list, you can get that at Flourishinofloreign.com. If you want to learn more about my book and more about my personal, what I'm calling truths and musings,
01:03:02
Speaker
You can join my sub staff, which I'll be way more active on once I finish this season of the podcast, which ends at the end of April, which I'm very happy. I love the podcast, but I got wrap it up. I got wrap it up.
01:03:15
Speaker
um Come and find me there. And you want to learn more about business strategy and my personal thoughts on business, especially with women, black women and women of color, leveraging our own intellectual property, our experiences to build assets for ourselves,
01:03:32
Speaker
that can finance the soft life, that can finance this life well lived, get at me, christinejobe.com. And if you want me to speak at your organization or your whatever, i do paid speaking engagements as well. You can learn more at christinejobe.com.
01:03:48
Speaker
And of course, listen to my podcast, Flourish
Conclusion: Intentional Liberation and Resources
01:03:51
Speaker
in the Foreign. It is award winning. It is critically acclaimed. It is that girl. i'm very proud of that. um By the end of this season, I'll have 151 episodes. And I don't know how that happened.
01:04:04
Speaker
Girl, do not even know. That's huge. But I'm grateful. I'm grateful for all the stories, especially this season, season six. We started talking about aging abroad. That was a hit. We're going to bring that back.
01:04:16
Speaker
um Really getting into what it means to live ah well abroad, age well abroad. um Just everything that these women have have journeyed through. And I'm really grateful that they feel comfortable to share that with me and I can safeguard these stories.
01:04:35
Speaker
And so that is, I think those those are all my things, I think. that are That's all like all fantastic, a myriad of ways folks can engage with you, work with you, collaborate, learn from you.
01:04:49
Speaker
um And i'm really um I'm so happy that you ended it on this note of liberation um because fundamentally, I think that's ah something obviously that's close to my heart, but I think that that's,
01:05:04
Speaker
um what a lot of our work is in service of and a lot of what we're tapping into the needs of that kind of liberatory expansiveness and in in our thinking, in our ways of being, um in the conversations that we're having. Again, you know, taking it out of the to-do list and taking it out of the, like this tactical things, but really, um, internalizing and sitting with what does liberation mean for us personally and collectively?
01:05:36
Speaker
Um, and how there's momentum with us everywhere around the world. As much as there is, you know, um nationalism, authoritarianism, et cetera, like we come from liberatory people. Our ancestors were dedicated to liberation, and we are an extension of that.
01:05:57
Speaker
And how... we can we can do that and incorporate that lens and and framework into our our day-to-day lives and in the lives that we create feels like incredibly important, timely work. So thank you so much. I'm so full after our conversation today, for sure. Oh, thank you. I'm always so happy to to speak with people who resonate with the message and who I get to I mean, I speak freely no matter what, but who are going to catch it? You know what i mean? Some people are just like, I heard soft life and that's what I'm about. And I'm like, and that's fine. You know, however it can get in.
01:06:34
Speaker
I'll let it get in. So it's okay. Right, right. It's, you know, pick your point of entry. And, and again, uh, since it is newly spring is planting seeds, right?
01:06:46
Speaker
So, you know, we plant seeds and, and, and shine our light and let go of the rest, um, and let people, you know, enjoy their, their journeys and their entry points. Um,
01:06:58
Speaker
and their sprouts and their harvests. So I'll end on the farming analogies, um which I'm also grateful you brought back that the Black farmers, ah you know, and and the agrarian culture. Like there's so many things we could dive into.
01:07:14
Speaker
I'm trying to shut this podcast because it's been over an hour and I want people to, you know, stick it and listen to it, but we'll definitely um reconvene and talk again. And um I'll definitely be listening to the, the aging well abroad series for sure, for sure. So thank you again for listening to this episode of spirit in the material world here with Christine Jobe. I'm Jana Zinzi, also known as jazz.
01:07:40
Speaker
Please take care of yourself and others. Peace, until next time.