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Dancing with Stillness Through Travel
16 Plays3 days ago
I had a beautiful kiki with my travel and dance bestie Steve Rosa exploring the intersections of travel, identity, and community. We shared reflections about queer identity as travelers, especially the importance of cultural context in understanding gender and identity. We reflected on our experiences dancing together in Cuba and Steve’s sabbatical in India studying yoga and how identity shaped those adventures. We highlight the power of dance as a form of self-expression, the role of elders in sharing wisdom, and the resilience of the human spirit in the face of migration and political challenges. We explore the value of stillness and connection in enriching our travel experiences and personal growth.
Stay in touch with Steve on IG: @srosa24.
Produced and edited by Janna A. Zinzi (jaz) of WanderWomxn Travels.
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Spirit in the Material World'
00:00:01
Speaker
Greetings family. Welcome to Spirit in the Material World. Your audible eat, pray, love, but remix with Old Bay, Shea Butter and Glitter. I'm here with one of my absolute favorite people on the planet. Y'all are not ready because we're about to be cutting up.
00:00:18
Speaker
My BB, my travel wifey, Steve Rosa. They're an artist, educator, dancer, and to be ah clear, the chair of the dance department at Saddleback College in California.
00:00:32
Speaker
ah photographer. I know them as STV. yeah So welcome to the show, Steve.
The Power of Friendship and Dance
00:00:44
Speaker
Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it. I'm really excited to just be here and share and just be with you. You know, selfishly up all your energy. b We're in a beautiful energy exchange.
00:01:01
Speaker
Just so folks know, the listeners know. It's hard for me to call you Steve. I'm like, who's that? But...
00:01:27
Speaker
Shout out to Kati, who is like a powerhouse, y'all. Like, just amazing. I don't have the words to express the depth and level of knowledge and brilliance that she brings to sharing Afro-Cuban dance, culture, music.
00:01:43
Speaker
But we were on a just a magical trip together last year throughout Cuba for two weeks where we were really fully immersed in um afro-cuban dance and music and culture and we were just like from the moment we met peas in a pod it's good everyone was like there they go i was like they put us together in that first homestead or casita and that was it it was over Oh my gosh.
Cultural and Personal Exploration in Cuba
00:02:13
Speaker
It was so beautiful. It was so beautiful. And, you know, we really were able to just develop this friendship. It was just kind of an automatic kinship and friendship.
00:02:25
Speaker
And I just love so much of the conversations that we had there the experiences that we shared. We both have obviously a shared love of dance, a shared love of travel, And, you know, being queer people in the space, you know, and applying that lens and also just a general conscious lens of traveling to that space.
00:02:50
Speaker
In the trip, we were able to go from, were in Havana and then we went to...
00:02:58
Speaker
Why am I blanking on the beach? We were there for only a day.
00:03:06
Speaker
Where do we go next? I can picture it in my mind's eye. We did Cien Fuegos. Cien Fuegos. We had the overnight in, what was that one city? That was such a beautiful place.
00:03:19
Speaker
Yeah, but just that one overnight. But then we did Cien Fuegos for a bit. And then we did Guantanamo. Guantanamo. And then we stayed in. Oh, sorry that we also did a one day trip to Trinidad. Trinidad was dope. And then we stayed in Santiago de Cuba to close out the trip. Yes. And um um Santiago is really, really incredible.
Navigating Identity and Gender in Dance
00:03:39
Speaker
The fall a culture that it reminds me so much of New Orleans. um It has that like Haitian influence, the buildings, the music.
00:03:49
Speaker
It is like very, very African um energy um there. The carnival culture in Santiago de Cuba was incredible. um But before, i mean, we could go for hours talking about all the things that we did, but what I really wanted to talk to you about is, you know, on that trip, the conversations that we were having about gender and traveling.
00:04:15
Speaker
yeah And, um you know, some of the experiences of being in a space that is holding a gender binary culturally.
00:04:26
Speaker
me And what that was like for you. And we experienced it in things like dance partners, like there's the male lead or there's the female part and, you know, those types of things. So I just wanted to talk to you because you've been all over the world and you, I mean, it's really incredible and traveling, you know, as a non-binary person, as a Brown person, a queer person, you know, sharing what some of those experiences are, especially now in a time where
00:04:58
Speaker
um these identities are under attack. Yeah, I mean, you know, I i want to center that we all have such different experiences as folks, right? So my non-binary travel journey is very individual, comparative to other folks, you know, just because of the way we carry ourselves, the way we dress.
00:05:18
Speaker
um I have a beard. i have a bassy voice. So folks will clock me as
Experiencing Liberation Through Dance
00:05:23
Speaker
male. And even though I'm brown, that still gives me a level of privilege when I'm going through security, when I'm ah putting When I'm trying to hail a taxi, when I'm putting my luggage in a place, right? When I'm trying to communicate with a stranger via gestures and grunts because there's a language barrier.
00:05:41
Speaker
In a different country, ah folks are more receptive of me than my siblings that maybe present in a different way. consciously and and then they they have different barriers or boundaries. But, you know, we we left off with, like, I wanted to put that out there first. But since we're talking about Santiago de Cuba, like one of the most profound moments for me while traveling in my recent years, right, that trip was two years ago now for us, right? yeah And I just had this beautiful moment where I realized that we're in class, we're taking this Afro-Haitian class.
00:06:17
Speaker
Well, we took a series of classes, but I'm in a skirt, right? Because this is what we do. We just wear a skirts. And I've been dancing in skirts for years in a contemporary slash modern framework, me just doing my own choreography and going in and Exploring a skirt, exploring the femininity of a skirt, the flow of a skirt, the beauty of a skirt, and really rooting myself with that piece of clothing, right? And being like, what does this mean for me?
00:06:42
Speaker
And then studying with Gatti and doing Orisha movement and other movement and being like, the skirt is an extension of you. The skirt is not just a prop. It is not just an attribute.
00:06:54
Speaker
It is part of you moving, embodying, ah channeling, you know. But for me, i had a personal, beautiful moment where I just remember, and I remember reflecting on it afterwards and then crying many times, even now.
00:07:08
Speaker
But like, we were in class together, and I was like, oh, this is the first time that I'm dancing with a skirt and I'm not like, oh, this feels a little different or I'm doing something taboo.
00:07:21
Speaker
It was the first time where it felt natural. It felt innate. It felt accepted. And that wasn't just myself internally. That was the teacher, the other folks that were there teaching and helping us, right? Like the assistance of the of the teacher.
00:07:37
Speaker
Obviously, y'all, because y'all are a BOMB community. um Kati, it was just so common. for a male body or a male assigned at birth body to dance in a skirt.
00:07:48
Speaker
And I just was like kind of liberated in a way. And I know it might seem minute or small to some folks, but to be able to, as a mover, as an educator, as someone who's just really, i guess, critical of a lot of things when it comes to my body. And honestly, Altie have been unkind to my dancing body in my years on on this on this earth, in this timeline.
00:08:11
Speaker
um that moment was one of those like shining moments where I was like, yeah, girl, like do the thing, you know? And it was just, ah, it was such a beautiful experience to have that liberation, that acceptance and to be able to walk around in that, it very much in that,
00:08:29
Speaker
small experience right of a set classroom on the theater stage with these folks. ah Could I saunter off into the street in a skirt? That's a different thing.
00:08:40
Speaker
Right. but Right. great Yeah, but to have that experience as an individual was just was just so rooting and so ah like just opening, broadening, right? It wasn't just me being like, oh, this feels good. It really allowed me to a root into different sides of me.
00:09:01
Speaker
um I've been receiving from a lot of different healers around me that I've been tasked with healing a lot of ancestral trauma in the maternal framework, right? And and it's just like, well, why why, why was I the one supposed to receive that?
00:09:19
Speaker
Who knows? I'll find out later as I keep this journey of like dancing and healing and understanding my body. But I feel like this is part of that, right? And it's not just like, skirt to cure all. That's not what I'm trying to say. Right? It's not like- There's the Amazon link, right? i like No, no, no.
00:09:36
Speaker
But then again, throw on a skirt, throw on some heels and see what happens to you because you will- Okay. Like, let's be real. you you Regardless of gender, it's a true story. Yeah. Like, it doesn't matter how you identify how you walk this earth, put on some heels.
00:09:51
Speaker
they can be a little kitten heel you know they could be the little the little half-inch babies or you can put on a six inch stiletto right a pleaser whatever you want to it will change something about you you will never walk ah on this earth the same i'm telling you right now this is facts on facts okay you'll be like like i like to say you'll be flouncing and bouncing all through the world just I'm gonna, I'm gonna have that in my mind now when I go out wearing skirt and heels, like, let me go flounce and bounce. Okay. It's the only way to live. Living. I love that.
00:10:27
Speaker
i love that.
Transformative Yoga Journey in India
00:10:29
Speaker
But yeah, like, you know, that was just one very small experience that has resonated with me as, as a person traveling and as a mover, as a dancer, I've been very blessed. Like you mentioned, I have traveled a lot in my life.
00:10:42
Speaker
and for different reasons and in in different capacities. Recently, I also did my 300 hour yoga teacher training in Rishikesh, India at Yoga Vidya Mandram, which is ah school out there.
00:10:56
Speaker
My, oh my God, it was such a beautiful trip. I still, that was, I came back from that trip in November. i feel like, you know, it's now June. I feel like I'm still integrating so much of it because it was four weeks, six days a week, 6 a.m. to 8 p.m.
00:11:15
Speaker
of classes. And, you know, they fed us, they fed us the yogic diet. They, you know, they, they, we had classes of, um, anatomy, philosophy, ah meditation. we had chanting, we had Asana, which is a physical practice and so much more. And then also the exchange within folks who were on the campus at the school, it was just beautiful, but like eating the food, being in nature, it was being next to my Ganga, the Ganga river, which is so such a powerful.
00:11:46
Speaker
nurturing, cradling energy. um Yeah, it was just such a profound experience as a human. And then id like it was, and having that experience where it's like,
00:11:58
Speaker
Yes, I'm aware of like my male presenting privilege, right? But really this trip was about me as a person, as an individual, as a human versus like, you know, gender wasn't at the forefront of things.
00:12:11
Speaker
Is there a gender binary there? Of course. Is there a patriarchy there? Of course, right? Who's checking us in? Who's, you know, who's driving the cars? Who's doing these things? Right. But it's also different. Like we had,
00:12:26
Speaker
the men prepare all our food, right? Men were cooking for us. And so just that little shift was interesting. And that's that's just a cultural thing. Everyone takes care of the cows. There's cows everywhere, right? And that's beautiful, but everyone's throwing food on the street for them or taking care of them or tending to them.
00:12:45
Speaker
um Cows be walking into bakeries, y'all. It is just... yeah It was one of the best experiences. i was just walking down the street and this big, beautiful um cow is just like walking slowly, just hoof by hoof, clopping and just wants to smell the bread. And it's just like full on 40% of their body in the bakery. And then the owner's just like, like just doing little sounds. They'd be like, get out, like go, go. Right. I was like,
00:13:15
Speaker
I love this. I love this, right? I love that visual. I'm not mad. That's me when I pass the bakery too. So relatable content. If there's a concha being made, i will be in that bakery.
00:13:29
Speaker
That panaderia will see me. Let's be real. Oh, I love that.
00:13:34
Speaker
oh i love that oh But yeah, Rishikesh was like a profound experience, right? Being in India. But it, and for me, one of the main things was like, I was just able to exist and integrate and have these hugely deep energetic experiences and also have my, like, my mind blown by just what I'm learning in terms of history and the sutras and also right understanding my anatomy being that of the Western anatomy, right. Our bones or nervous system, but also the yogic anatomy and how they, ah how they relate to one another, right.
Cultural Insights and Misconceptions in Yoga
00:14:12
Speaker
Where your chakras are, where you have your nadis, which are energy centers, how you have energy flow through.
00:14:19
Speaker
And, you know, unfortunately here in the West, there's so much appropriation and so much stealing of, of Indian culture and, and, a lack of understanding of what yoga really is.
00:14:30
Speaker
And it becomes all about, you know, ah terrible companies that don't even want to name and like yoga pants and, you know, things like that when it's like, nah, like, you know, pants are yoga pants, like a shirt is a yoga shirt.
00:14:44
Speaker
It is just about how you show up for your practice. And it is not about doing these huge postures that, you know, oh, you're standing on your head. That's the main thing you want to get to.
00:14:55
Speaker
There is no pose hierarchy. There is, you know, they were like, I'm a thicker body. Like your girl has, you know, some thickness throughout her body. We love it. She has curves and swerves. ah she yeah And, you know, being in India, I was, I did, I'm not going to lie. I did enter, right. With like, damn.
00:15:14
Speaker
All right, like there's going to be a certain type of person who's going to be there to do this training. And there was there was like a certain when you think of like a yogic, or someone going to India to study yoga, you already have a person in mind, right? That very much did exist there. There was some some melanated folks there. and And ah but folks from all over the world came to this one school and there were some thicker bodies, there were some bigger bodies.
00:15:41
Speaker
And I was already ready, kind of like it is in the dance world, unfortunately, to like Be, you know, a little big chested and be like, I deserve to be here. That was not even been a thing.
00:15:51
Speaker
Like when I entered these classes, my asana classes, especially our teacher, Sabaj, you know, he didn't even, he didn't even address it in a beautiful way. Right. It was just like yoga is for everyone.
00:16:02
Speaker
yeah Everyone's at a different level in a different place. This is a 300 hour training. So this is what we expect of y'all. But do you listen to your body and let's go. And that's what it was, right? Like sometimes folks took it really easy and gentle on their body, which we should do as humans anyway, every day.
00:16:20
Speaker
And sometimes we're like, no, you know, what we want to build this heat. We want to push, like, let's go. And it's beautiful. It's just beautiful to be seen as a human, as an individual, as a person, and to be seen energetically. Let's be real.
00:16:35
Speaker
You know, like often when we meet folks here in Western society, in the U.S., I'm in SoCal, I'm in Long Beach, right? We don't really meet people. We just see them. And then we, because we've been potentially conditioned to do this, we just start projecting like what we think of them before we even get to know them. Like we don't try to really understand their energy, where they're from.
00:16:57
Speaker
And sometimes we don't have that time. I get that. But have for I bring this up to say when I was in India, it was the the opposite of that. I was seen as ah as the person that I am. a lot of people really poured into me in beautiful ways. They were like, you're so supportive. You're cackle. Your laugh is so warming, right? like It is. Yeah. It is.
00:17:18
Speaker
Yeah. but it is And just that my folks be, to see a different side of myself that are strangers and me be able to be authentic in that way.
Teaching and Learning Through Cultural Exchange
00:17:30
Speaker
I had the the privilege of teaching a couple dance classes out there at the school because the fellow students were interested. So I taught a West African class in one of our studios and to like, to as Baba Yaya says here, to a tape, to a recorded tape, because obviously I didn't have live drummers, so I made it work.
00:17:49
Speaker
But it was beautiful to have these. I literally taught a class for folks and facilitated this experience for folks from all over the globe. like And it just happened because folks were interested and they wanted, you know, it wasn't like me advertising and being like, I'm going to at this conference. Like, it just naturally came about.
00:18:06
Speaker
And then I also taught a Bachata class oh on the roof of one of the buildings. And I'm like, look at this, y'all. Like, we're over here. you know, doing our thing by Chata, moving these hips, partnering, right? yeah And look at these mountains around us. Like, this is wild.
00:18:22
Speaker
Monkeys running around. Like, it was just... It was such a beautiful experience to be able to offer in that way, you know, and and I was able to because I felt so poured into I felt so as an energetic person as like, you know, human versus like, oh, you're a male body, you're a male like this, you know, so it was it was a very unique travel experience for me in that way, for sure.
00:18:47
Speaker
That is such a blessing, um you know, to, and I think that's the the container was set in a place like that. And that that is so important, like that context. um The previous, a couple of episodes ago, i had on a dear friend of mine, Emily Williams, and her best friend, a black trans woman named Taylor Casey, disappeared in the Bahamas last year at a yoga retreat.
00:19:14
Speaker
And the yoga retreat, you're like the juxtaposition of the two is so present to me um because the Western idea of what yoga has become this like capitalistic, you know, um very again, it's it it tends to be in a like white um Western, capitalistic, you know, um gendered type of framework that a lot of these yoga retreats um come to. And the thing is, she was having issues, you know, showing up as a as herself being seen as herself as a black trans woman, not as like, you know, all these, like the projection of the identities, right. And
00:20:00
Speaker
what what whiteness or what
00:20:06
Speaker
ah projection of like who she should be or how she should show up you know i wasn't there but just hearing the you know reflections from people who were there you know via emily um it was like the opposite experience and when she disappeared and went missing you know that's a whole other ah situation of again the way that like transphobia shows up the way that anti-blackness and racism shows up you know even in a country that is you know, full of black people, you know, run by black people, um, you still have that transphobia. And then, plus you add in this, you know, wellness yoga centers cause she was doing a teacher training and the way that they just like cut rent, you know, closed ranks, um, when people started to ask questions about where she was. And so I'm really grateful that you brought that point up about, you know, going to have this experience, you know, in, um,
00:21:07
Speaker
in India with these teachers and like what yoga is actually about and and what the spirituality and the practice is really about, um you know, and and being able to show up as yourself, to be seen as yourself.
00:21:21
Speaker
um You know, and again, acknowledging that like identities are different and people respond in different ways. um But also that container matters, like the context matters, you know, and even I think when we,
00:21:36
Speaker
you know, the container that was set when we went to Cuba with Kathy, right? Like that, that container is set in a loving way and in in ah in a way of respect. Um, and, and so much of that matters when we're, you know, not just like running trips, but like when we're,
00:21:52
Speaker
If we're hosting, like you're a teacher, you're a professor. You know what that means, the difference of um what that means to set that kind of context where your students can show up as themselves um you know and and a place of of safety.
00:22:08
Speaker
and And that means like physical safety, but also emotional safety you know to really like show up you know as you truly truly are. um from like a spiritual perspective and also like that, that, that artist perspective. So, um, it's just really interesting to hear your, that experience, um, you know, and the like real roots of how yoga is intended to be.
00:22:39
Speaker
Yeah. 100%. I totally agree with you on, you know, like, you know, using your same framework or your same, words here, but like the container is so important and being where in my training,
00:22:52
Speaker
Of course, they do cater to like the European and the white women from the US s that come over for the training because they got to they got to make money, right?
00:23:03
Speaker
they They understand that these folks will come through and do the training and then do what they will. It doesn't seem like they're really changing how they're teaching to pander to that, right? They're like, this is what yoga is.
00:23:16
Speaker
Yoga is sitting with yourself. yoga We're doing all of this so that you can sit for a prolonged period of time. and meditate and and really be with yourself.
00:23:27
Speaker
That is why we're doing all our yoga asana, these physical practices. It is so that you can sit down, right? And that itself is so beautiful. Like we need to sit, we need to sit and root, right? we And you know using sit as a metaphor, right? For some folks sitting down maybe is not as accessible, but it's more but it's not just about the physical seated, the sukkah asana, the easy seat.
00:23:50
Speaker
It's about rooting. It's about being with yourself. It's about understanding and processing that non-attachment, releasing so much of ourselves that we have been...
00:24:04
Speaker
shifted in our societies that we've grown up in to to carry ourselves in a different way. you know it's like you're It's believed that you are meant to be a joyful person. You are born into this world with joy, with with excessive amounts of joy.
00:24:18
Speaker
But then as we live our lives, that joy is shifted. It's not that it goes away, but it's shifted. Right. And then so some of us then know maybe we don't have as steady access to our joy as others do that we did when we came into this world.
Travel as Nourishment and Healing
00:24:35
Speaker
And so by for me, my yoga practice has been very much about that. You know, like one of someone I've known since I was 18, Tina Kennedy, shout out. Love me some Tina.
00:24:46
Speaker
Tina's a lighting designer at Cerritos College and she's known me since I was a dance baby, since I was a baby baby. I was 18. Like, you know, who was she? Who was this person back then in a relationship and all of these things?
00:24:58
Speaker
Tina has seen me through everything. And we just had an informal concert a few months ago, like a month ago. And she was like, there's something different about you. And I was like, oh, oh, like, am I like, am I frantic or stressed? She goes, you have like this,
00:25:12
Speaker
ease and calm about you. And I was like, Ashe, thank you. like yeah Not to say that like I'm doing it for recognition, but it's nice when someone that has seen the various iterations of myself, right? Because we all have so many versions of ourselves, to be able to recognize the work that I'm doing.
00:25:31
Speaker
Yes, you know, and we don't do the work for the accolades, but we do the work to to really pour back into ourselves to nurture ourselves and to let's be real to heal, you know, like to really understand what we carry with us, whether it's ancestral, whether it's something that happened in this lifetime, whether it's something that happened last week, you know, and it can be a microaggression that you weren't really aware of. But all of a sudden you're just chilling on your couch and you're like, oh, hmm.
00:25:58
Speaker
I feel a little unsettled, you know, and taking the time to do that versus just being being a part of this grand mechanism in this big machine of just eat, work, sleep, eat, work, sleep, eat, work, girl, bye. Like we do not, especially in our current political times, especially in our current global climate, we do not have that luxury. Like we have to tend to ourselves so that we can then you know, reach out to our community and heal our community and facilitate maybe if we need to for our community, whether that's like having a little kiki at your house and checking in on your friends, right? Or like ah making some food and dropping it off at the homies house. Like all of these things really go a long way, but we don't have the capacity to do that unless we really pour it back into ourselves and do that work.
00:26:47
Speaker
And so for me, yoga has been a vehicle in that, but also traveling overall, like, traveling is, I would like, or when I met my partner, i was like, one of the first things I was like, we're we're celebrating our one year in two weeks. Woo woo.
00:27:01
Speaker
Oh my gosh, time goes so fast. Congratulations. Thank you. Our anniversary is Juneteenth, which is very cute. Oh yes. Yes. He's so cute.
00:27:14
Speaker
He was like, I love that for my black love story. That's what my partner said. I was screaming. Me too. and The ancestors are so happy. It was, yes, this relationship has been very beautiful, but that's another thing, big part of my healing journey for sure. i say But I was telling my partner, I was like, hey, like I travel, like from the jump, that was one of the the first things I was like, I just travel. i travel a lot. i wander, I explore. He and I just did a road trip this past weekend, which was beautiful.
00:27:45
Speaker
Yeah, my first road trip with the partner going to a couple of the national parks in Cali. And then going to SF for three nights and then taking the coastal route down to Big Sur and then coming back to Long Beach. Yeah, it was a beautiful trip. And we just flowed the whole time. Like we just allowed things to to flow and be. And that's really that really does nourish me in a lot of ways. Right. Like traveling overall really nourishes me in a lot of ways.
00:28:11
Speaker
Yeah. And every travel experience is just so different based on just where I'm at in life. And. who I'm with or where, you know, the framework. Like I did the Cuba trip again year. Right.
00:28:23
Speaker
And it beautiful. I know. i was like, it was beautiful, but it was so different. everything Everything was so different. Like i didn't have my hubby there with me. Jana wasn't there with me. So I was like, this feels, I was a little like, hmm, like going low fit in the corner. was like, where's my boo?
00:28:44
Speaker
I know, like never again. I But then also like recognizing how different, because we both love Santiago de Cuba our first time, just that one city, how different it is now from last year.
00:28:58
Speaker
12 months, like 12 months, there's been drastic changes. In what ways? the The youth, for a lack of a better word, the younger folks were gone.
00:29:10
Speaker
Like, do you remember when you and like, we would be walking around and we would walk around that main street with all the shops and you would see all these little baby kids running around and like yeeking and kicking it.
00:29:21
Speaker
Not anymore. It's just, it's, and so I was talking to our host and I was like, Hey, I noticed like this street, like it was last year was popping. Like folks were just chilling, you know, listening to music, walking around, getting having ice cream.
00:29:36
Speaker
She was like, she was like, i amm miho she's like everyone, out they're all gone. Like they're all leaving the country. And so it was a beautiful moment to talk with her. And she was like, look, we worked hard. This is my, this is me. This house is me. This is this is mine and my husband's. Like we worked hard for this, for this to be in, in our possession. Like she didn't use that, those words, but like in us, it was, it was so much more than like owning a home. It beautiful way that she phrased it in Spanish. It's kind of hard to translate it, but she was like, you know, like this is mine and I'm never going to leave.
00:30:11
Speaker
She's like, but the younger generation, is they're they're leaving. They're just... So there's a big shift there. like There's still a lot of beautiful things that Cuba has to offer.
00:30:22
Speaker
yeah But you know just because we were able to have that privilege of engaging with Cuba in such a different way through Kathy and through everything that she facilitated, through the connections we made individually...
00:30:34
Speaker
And to be there again and be like, oh wow, there's some there's some big shifts. wow Just from one year to the other. And it's it's something that is felt in the country overall. Yeah, could imagine. it was it was it was kind of wild. It was kind of wild to experience that.
00:30:50
Speaker
And it makes me think there were a few things that you shared that really um just touched me. I think one quickly about cute about when you were sharing that story about Santiago de Cuba and the idea of like having to leave your home to find opportunities for survival, literally,
00:31:09
Speaker
for survival and and literally you know um And thinking about migration, thinking about what that means in our current political climate, like choices to stay, choices to leave. And you know um we have a different, clearly a different economic system than Cuba, but like you know there's a level of privilege that we we have, but also how what's happening politically and socially, how that's impacting quality of life, you know, what's going to happen to the economy, um what's going to happen to, you know, quote unquote, marginalized communities um and our ability to like move through space.
00:31:55
Speaker
And that's like a bigger, that's just ah a bigger thing i' I've been thinking about. I think a lot of us have been thinking about it. I've done a few podcasts episodes um with folks who have um left the United States, particularly black women.
00:32:08
Speaker
And also that idea would to bring it back to the idea of stillness. And it seems like that it's like, um, in contrast to travel, but it's actually to your point, I feel like whenever i leave the country, i find a you know And again, this is because I'm out of my house and my like daily routine of, like I got stuff to do. I got work. I got you know gotta to wash these dishes, gotta you whatever. right um But that travel really does connect me to an ability to be still in a different way and to be observant in a different way than when we're, one, we're in the capitalist like cycle. Like you said, eat work, sleep.
00:32:52
Speaker
you know or like Hopefully we're eating. Sometimes it's like working and I'm like, oh, didn't eat for six hours or whatever. Maybe I should go do something. know, and you know and The blessing, I think, of travel is one, you do have that break from your like daily routine, but also to be able to see in different cultural contexts like flows of life.
00:33:15
Speaker
um And so I joke around and I say, I joke around, but this is like actually very true, that Costa Rica prepared, living in Costa Rica prepared me to live in New Orleans. Because as a New Yorker, I'm type A. I think just naturally I'm type A, and then you add the New York um rhythm of life to that. It's like, no.
00:33:37
Speaker
This is supposed to be, not to say that New Yorkers are always on time, like they're still CP time, but it's like, yo. People got stuff to do. We ain't got no time to wait. like is Going with the flow is like not a thing.
00:33:49
Speaker
Ain't nobody got time for that, right? So even moving to the South is and a place like New Orleans, which is very the northernmost city in the Caribbean, as they say, and it is true. I don't care what anybody says.
00:34:03
Speaker
that has been teaching me to slow down, but I'm still in an American or a U S context. And so sometimes that's really stressful, right. Or like, yeah um, they bump up against each other. But what I, what I'm getting at is that when you're able to go to other places, you see how people value time, right. Or, and value, like going with the flow. A lot of times it's infrastructural is like,
00:34:29
Speaker
I'm gonna get there when I get there. know what I mean? The lights went out, there's pop, whatever. There's all these different things, but also culturally, um the way that like capitalism plays into morphing these things, like you were talking about, yoga, how capitalism like totally distorts that, how capitalism distorts so many different things. you know And yes, we need to make money, of course. And I love, I'm grateful for the work that I do. I love it. you know But travel and and solo travel, and also even in group travel, really does challenge
00:35:08
Speaker
but especially internationally, a lot of times it really like there'll be an enforced slowdown or it it can facilitate this like ability to be still because you want to immerse yourself and just like be in the moment.
Global Travel and Cultural Reflections
00:35:24
Speaker
um So it was just so interesting to think about that because I'm definitely someone that um in general day to day life, works on sitting my behind down.
00:35:37
Speaker
yeah Like sit your behind down girl. Like you're doing the most. and It is not my natural inclination to be still. I mean, who you telling? Like literally yesterday, my partner was like, just chill. Cause like he was, he was making food and he was like, just chill. And i was like, he's like, enjoy the fruits of your labor. And I was like, what?
00:35:56
Speaker
And I was like, what are you talking about? He's like this home. Like, yes. Like you've done so much, like just, Chill. Like, I mean, how blessed am I? My man's over here making me this bomb ass sandwich in the kitchen.
00:36:08
Speaker
I know, I know, it's a sandwich, but let me tell you, I don't know what he be doing to this bread and everything, but seasonings on seasonings, i am here for it, right? I was like, it's just jelly meats and cheese, y'all. Like, there is. A little magic ashe on it. i mean Yeah, what about me? It's ancestral, just seasoning right there, just chatteling while he's cooking. I'm here for The pheromones, you know what I mean?
00:36:32
Speaker
yeah through all the herbs and spices. But you know, i'm I'm with you. Like, I find it difficult. I used to find it difficult to say no when it came to work, right? Because I love what I do. I am blessed. Let's be real. Like, I am an educator. I'm a dancer. I'm a dance teacher.
00:36:50
Speaker
i i I'm a professor of dance. I now get paid to profess dance. That is wild to me. Like, I never thought, little, young, queer, gay me never thought that I would be dancing. like and like i I've always loved to dance. like I have but all these beautiful memories of me as a little dancer, but I never thought that this would be my you know my livelihood. like I travel for dance. I have this beautiful opportunity to meet people every semester or in every offering or workshop and just share and be in community and energetically dance with folks and allow them to show up in the best way that they can or in the way that they want to show up that day.
00:37:34
Speaker
Right. And embrace that for them. Give them that space. Right. Right. And I've been able to do that now and understand that a little more through my yogic training but also through all the traveling I've done through having these moments similar to like what you shared like i remember when I was in Lebanon in 2015 I went right after I graduated grad school with my then mentor and so I had such a different experience because we stayed at her mom's house right and so I was like staying with family the whole time But you're talking about like going with the flow. Like we would go visit this person.
00:38:08
Speaker
You would sit down, chat, get to know one another. the tea's coming out, the food's coming out. And then, you know, cool, we're there. We're supposed to be a 20 minute little pull up. It's going to be now three hours that we're there.
00:38:21
Speaker
And then we're going to see this next person. There we go. More tea, more food. And I'm like, oh, where do I put it? Like, I am so stuffed. But just like, you know, just to have that where like you're just visiting folks and it becomes a whole thing, right? a a whole experience because folks just want to get to know you or you're just enjoying your time with these people.
00:38:44
Speaker
Right. Regardless of all the vibrations and the clutter around of everything happening in political climates and in societal, whatever is happening in each a country or culture in their society, be able to take a moment and be still.
00:39:00
Speaker
Or like you said earlier to sit. Right. Like even though traveling, we're shifting, we're leaving our routine, but I i am not a heavy itinerary traveler. Like I do not.
00:39:11
Speaker
I plan stuff. If I hit it, awesome. If I don't hit it Cool, we're good. So like, i in my experience, traveling has very much been that as well, right? Like Lebanon, or after I went to India, I had the beautiful privilege of going to Cambodia and go with my bestie. My bestie is first generation, born in Long Beach.
00:39:33
Speaker
Parents fled Cambodia because of the Khmer Rouge and and the genocide at the time. And to be able to explore his motherland with him, ah i I like I love this man. The best he's been. He's like one of my folks, right? Like we've known each other for 12 years and talk about like different iterations of one another. Like through our friendship, we've really grown, shifted, peeled away and and rooted into so many different versions of ourselves.
00:40:01
Speaker
And Cambodia with him was just stunning. I tell him, i was like, I saw a different light of you that I never, I've never experienced. Like to hear you speak your language with people, for you to hear your language all around you and it not be mixed in with, you know, English or Spanish or other languages But and for you to be in your in the actual earth that your ancestors came from, like that allowed me to be still and sit in a different way.
00:40:30
Speaker
And also recognizing that I am a guest in this space. My Salvadorian ancestry is different than that of Cambodia, right? So i it was a heavy, I'm getting chills now. It was a heavy emotional experience because I've known about the Khmer Rouge. Of course, they didn't teach it to us here in school, right in public school. yeah Not at all. Once I got to know my bestie and I was like, okay, Cambodian, a Cambodian household is different. It is a very unique household.
00:40:59
Speaker
And a lot of that is because of this recent history of this genocide. um One major thing is that the elders don't talk about it. They simply like, and I've heard it through many, many other families as well, not just my besties family. and And it is known you do not ask about it You do not, you do not. If the elders decide to talk about it, it's on their terms and when they want to, but there's some severe hurt, harm, trauma that a lot of that generation is carrying with them.
00:41:29
Speaker
So me being in this land, I'm very much a guest, like I'm learning by going to like what they call the killing fields, which is essentially like a camp where folks are prison and, and, and so many terrible things are happening.
00:41:42
Speaker
But also walking down the street and seeing an elder like Ye or or my my besties mom's age. And I'm like, you live through this. Like you live through all of this harm, this genocide.
00:41:54
Speaker
i think it's a quarter or 30%, 35% of the population wiped out in a matter of a couple of years. ah And you lived through this and now you're just chilling right here going to the grocery store or going to get some fruit from the stall down the way, you know? And it just, it really shifted a lot of things in my mind, like how i how as a traveler I am in these lands, in these spaces, going to Angkor Wat, which is wild. Like to see this in person, to see these temples in person, of course, little gamey, I'm like, ooh, Tomb Raider, Lara Croft, like, i
00:42:32
Speaker
That's fair. Angelina Jolie right now, like I'd running around, but I'm not going to run because I don't disrespect the grounds. but like i mind That's what I'm doing. Very much, right?
00:42:46
Speaker
But just having, because i had I have this privilege of having my bestie, right? And having this different, um, just this different way that I can show up in this land, but being very much aware like, okay, girl, you're a guest here. Like, you know, you are, you are very privileged to be on walking this earth and walking through these, you know, ancient temples like Angkor Wat and all of that, but also the temples where you're going to give offerings for Da, his dad who passed ah ah two years ago on the second. So two years ago and three days.
00:43:17
Speaker
um Right. Like I wanted to honor him too, because, This man fought in that war. and So this man, like, he would always walk around the house like elders do sometimes without a shirt, and like more booty shorts on or whatever, right, or in his wheelchair.
00:43:33
Speaker
But he had like bullet scars and and knife scars and he had protection tattoos on his hands and that will talk to you forever, right? In broken English or in Khmer.
00:43:45
Speaker
And I was here for it. I was always just perched up and I was like, that, like this and that. And he shared so much. He was so generous when he was with us on this earth that I was like being on that land. I was like, I can't even imagine what it was for like for him, right? To be on that land.
00:44:02
Speaker
And all of this to say that all of that invited stillness in me when I was in Cambodia. Invited for me invited like for me to sit and be with myself in a different way.
00:44:16
Speaker
So I wasn't like physically physically seated for 10 days, right? But i was I was so seated in myself.
History, Identity, and Resilience in Travel
00:44:24
Speaker
as I'm like trying this new food with the bestie, going to a gay club, going to get massages that are dirt cheap and amazing, right? Like doing all the touristy things and also like the smaller things and just talking to the tuk-tuk driver or talking to folks at the hotel.
00:44:40
Speaker
um The besties like me were social butterflies, but in different ways. So, you know, it was just beautiful to be able to be still and sit in a different way than when I was in Lebanon, when it was like,
00:44:51
Speaker
Oh, no, you're going to sit on this couch and just enjoy the kiki that we're having. Right. Like, which we love, which we love. But also, like, being in Cambodia invited a different kind of stillness because of the history, my personal relationship to my bestie and his family.
00:45:07
Speaker
That's that's my second family. Like, his mom is my mom, you know, um and just to be able to. you know, to sit in a way where you honor and you make space and you understand your position in this land or as you're traveling through, recognizing my privilege because I come from the U.S. and I have a salaried position. I'm a tenured professor. Like, did I put the work in to to be a chair and to be I'm a professor, I'm professor, professor, professor, I'm professor, professor, I'm professor, I'm professor, professor, professor, professor, professor, I'm professor, I'm professor, professor, I'm a professor, professor, I'm professor, professor, I'm I'm a professor, I'm professor, I'm professor, professor, professor, professor, professor, professor, professor, professor, I'm professor, professor, professor, professor, professor, professor, a professor, I'm a I'm a professor, professor, I'm
00:46:04
Speaker
how we get to know ourselves when we are put in these different contexts, especially like that's why i love you know history and learning history. There's so many things about what you shared about you know understanding again, the context of like where we're going and what is the history? what is you know so There's so many places around the world where like intense war, genocide,
00:46:31
Speaker
like these really, really heavy, um violent situations happened very, like within our lifetime or close to it, like extremely recently, you know, let's say the last 60 years, like I went to Vietnam and for me, it was like,
00:46:50
Speaker
I watched the Ken Burns documentary about the the Vietnam War before I went. And that gave me so much of a different context of when I was there, like how i could how I was like observing things or relating to things as someone from the United States going there and where that the aftermath of that war and that history is still present. you know And even in the fact of like what you're saying about the the elders don't talk about,
00:47:19
Speaker
what happened. And ah it makes me think about like the trauma of that. um And I was having a conversation with a dear friend of mine who is born and raised new orleanan Native New Orleanian. And we were talking about, I was interviewing her for an article about um how to experience New Orleans as a local.
00:47:41
Speaker
And one of the things she was sharing with me is that she said, Don't just ask people their Katrina story. When you said that, it really made me think about, oh, would people ask about this? But could see that happening.
00:48:00
Speaker
but i could see that you know happening and so um you know i think And shout out to um aloeun ian e fa fat tuininu that's that's my dear sister, chief and friend who is a native New Orleanian that continues to be a guiding light and and helping me understand New Orleans and helped me understand a lot of things. but um It's that same thing where like sometimes our role is just to sit.
00:48:30
Speaker
or like and And again, we're using that in a term of not necessarily physically, but like to observe, to listen, to be. you know Still to develop ourselves and like develop those kind of like observational, intuitive skills and like emotional intelligence.
00:48:47
Speaker
um you know And also to just really learn about things. And I think you know bringing it back to the type the the days that we're in in the United States. you know like so much of what we're experiencing and why people why some of these things are being allowed to happen and there's less resistance is because we don't know the history around the world. We don't know global history. We don't know our part in global history. And we don't also know what happened, these genocides, these wars, these violent insurrections, coups, all this stuff. We don't know that as a general populace. And I think about you know your background being Salvadorian.
00:49:25
Speaker
like these, having these lenses of um not just the violence that happened, but also the Like what's on the other side? Like you were talking about his mom and how it's like she lived through this where 35, I think a massive percentage of the population, you know, um did not survive, was killed, was massacred. And it's like, now she's living her life, like, and you know, going to the store and, you know, like she's living her life as just, you know,
00:49:58
Speaker
day to day And I think about that so much, trying not to be in a fear place about like where we're headed as a nation, um but as this reminder of like resilience of the human spirit, but also like what can happen when violent evil forces are allowed to thrive.
00:50:21
Speaker
i know that took a turn, but that to me is like, again, one of the things about travel that I feel like is so important, especially as as someone from the United States, when we we are you know going to places and what a blessing for you to be able to like,
00:50:36
Speaker
have that experience with someone who is from there, like whose family, you know, has that history that you learned even when you were, you know, a younger person here in the US.
00:50:49
Speaker
Yeah, resilience of the human spirit is a beautiful way to like frame it like that's definitely something that's gonna sit with me like, look, thinking about yay, like his mom and her leaving the country at the beginning of everything.
00:51:01
Speaker
And the little bits that I know that she shared, but also my own mom, right, leaving the Salvadorian Civil War. and her leaving and which is this is a whole of it my mama's journey is wild y'all like my mom's journey is intense but her leaving El Salvador and coming through and taking buses and being like it's wild like the the details of her story are are intense and vast so I'll like go through that but like and then she comes to this country and she's so defeated as she's about to cross the you know the the line quote unquote
00:51:38
Speaker
Her her shoes, her her chanclas have ripped off like she's just over it. She is exhausted. And then there's a Border Patrol vehicle there at night. And my mom was just like, take me back.
00:51:49
Speaker
So she just walks in front. And then they didn't stop her. So like my mom was like she was so frustrated and over it that she was like, take me back. And so she walks in front of this vehicle and they don't swoop her up. And so she comes into this country.
00:52:04
Speaker
Right. And then like, like for her to persevere through all of that. And then she's a month pregnant and she don't know. So my mama's then in this country, going to meet up with the cousin. That's a whole other thing. The tea there is wild, but my mom ends up being houseless with a baby bump in the streets of l LA and also Pasadena trying to find work, eating at a trash cans with my oldest sister. Like, and now my mom is retired. She has her home.
00:52:34
Speaker
Right. I take care of her. I have the the beautiful opportunity to, like, you know, provide for her for like the home and stuff. shame And and but I'm like, you're talking about that, you know, that human spirit you're talking about it being resilient. Like my mother is another manifestation of that just in her.
00:52:50
Speaker
Right. And her fleeting. and her need to travel, right? Like we've been framing travel in this beautiful place of like luxury because we want to go and experience these things, but also not minimizing the fact that people are forced out of their land, forced out of where they really want to be, where they have set roots, right? Like my mom and Ye and other people and other lands.
00:53:15
Speaker
And so this forced removal, but because we're so resilient as communities, right, BIPOC communities, indigenous communities, folks will will will survive and will thrive, right? But it's, you know, it's about How do we do that?
00:53:31
Speaker
By sitting. Like we really have to sit with each other. We have to sit. So many things. But sitting definitely helps. Like sitting with each other in so many ways and really being able to to check in on one another, see one another,
00:53:45
Speaker
And also, key, y'all, like laughing is so important. Like totallyly mood sharing food, sharing drinks, just sharing in so many things, sharing in your love of animals, if that's a thing, of plants, whatever it may be, right? Finding your community so that you can further thrive.
00:54:04
Speaker
while you're traveling, whether that's an elected travel because you want experience Cuba and Cambodia and India like myself, or whether that's forced travel and displacement like Ye leaving Cambodia my mom leaving El Salvador.
00:54:18
Speaker
like I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for my mom, po blank period. right like My mom's journey allowed her to then be here in SoCal start her own lonchera business, lunch truck business, before the gourmet food truck thing was a thing, and, you know, really get this off the ground. And she raised all six of us essentially by herself. I'm the youngest of six.
00:54:40
Speaker
So, like, this woman is everything, right? she Her story is wild. And then her journey and her story here, when she came to this country and this land, is is is profound as well. So, yeah, it's just, but I've noticed, just and upon reflection as I get older, like,
00:54:57
Speaker
My mom was able to do a lot and she was working a lot, but she never lost sight of who she was. You know, like she knows my mom is always going to be a kid at heart. She just saw Lilo and Stitch and she was like, I loved it.
00:55:08
Speaker
But my mom is also like, I love kid things because I wasn't allowed to have a childhood. She's the oldest of 13. So she had to take care of her siblings when she was a baby.
00:55:19
Speaker
Wow. like that is so But that's how it is in El Salvador with these big families. like Right. And that was just her truth. And so now that she has the ability to sit and be still and really let her hair down, so to speak, um she got both knees replaced in the recent years. So mama got mama got a tune up, as I say, hey right? I was like, she had that new transmission.
00:55:40
Speaker
So like, you know, we'd be grocery shopping and doing all the things, but like, it's just beautiful to see her be able to to be with herself in a different way. totally like and it's and and it's just we look at our elders and we really have to like look at them and be like hey like and and not be like tell me all the things tell me all these stories but let them naturally come through in these moments of stillness you know in these moments of of of sitting with them and just enjoying and partaking
00:56:12
Speaker
And exchanging energetically, energetic exchange is so important and so profound.
Embracing Identity and Fear in Travel
00:56:17
Speaker
And it doesn't have to be. Yeah, I love how you put that. um That and and I think that goes, it makes me think about your point, you know, about Lebanon and and. um you know, and that's that's slowness of like part of the going with the flow is and what you were talking about really at the beginning where the Western context, especially, you know, California, it's very present because of like the industries that are there, and that the like,
00:56:49
Speaker
ah seeing through people, right? Or like, what can you do for me? Or like assessing, making these assessments of people and who they are based on like seeing them. um And what I think is really interesting is that part about when we are in these different contexts and different spaces of like, oh, like you, this 20 minute tea, uh-uh, it's gonna be three minutes, I mean, third three hours. And, but that's like, to your point, you know, how we get to know each other, how we get to hear stories, how we get to connect that like folks, it's a value in other cultures.
00:57:21
Speaker
and other spaces of like, I want to know more about you. Like, I want to have this conversation. i want to, you know, sit in and kick it. um not just because we're lazy, know what I mean? And we like whatever, but it's about like actual human connection. It's about, you know, um growth in so many, so many different ways.
00:57:42
Speaker
um And I just really love that, especially when we think about the context of our elders and their stories. And, you know, that goes back to me of thinking about how That's also part of how histories are lost when we don't have these. We're not talking to our elders. We're not you know letting them share with us. We're not listening to their stories because they have, always say, like the ancestors have left us.
00:58:06
Speaker
answers, you know, and like the ancestors have have left us so many tools. And so before our elders become ancestors, like what are those tools and what are those lessons? What are you know, what are those gems that they have to to share with us and for us to really, um you know, take advantage of those those opportunities before they're gone?
00:58:31
Speaker
um So I know we went all over the place. And I'm so grateful because what's I'm going to keep the tea, like I'm going to spill the tea because really I was like, I really want to talk about like identity when we travel and, you know, but that's what the blessing of this is. One, if I get...
00:58:48
Speaker
on any kind of communication mode with STV. It's just ah what it is. It's just what it is. um you know i was thinking about like um because of your experiences and your identities, like thinking about how people are having you know so many, there's fear around travel.
00:59:09
Speaker
And like that's fine. we don't We can talk about that another time. I will have you back. Because it's like, you know, that's kind of, if we're going to talk about being in the spirit of going with the flow, right, and intuition, you know, it's like you were talking about, I have an itinerary, but if I get to it, cool. If I don't, it's fine too. We're going to have a good old time either way. Either way.
00:59:40
Speaker
ah Truly, truly. it was so um you know beautiful to have this conversation with you. And I do want to you know continue this conversation, one, from the spiritual level, um you know and also, two, on a practical level for...
00:59:55
Speaker
you know, folks who are allies, you know, I really do want to lift up like what are, you know, ways that fellow travelers, if you're traveling with your queer, trans, non-binary community, your, you know, your siblings, how to be good allies. So if you have a thought about that, we can end on that. And if not, you can think about it and come back another time and share it with me.
01:00:23
Speaker
Oh, I think that's a whole other episode right there. It is! I'm like, wait a minute. Right. That'll be another hour. Right. But, I mean, aside from, like, you know, just, like, seeing the folks you're traveling with, right? Like, actually, like, seeing them and checking in on them.
01:00:39
Speaker
Right? Also, like, as a person of size, like, I can't just sit everywhere. Like, she got thick hips, so armrests are uncomfortable. Or... Yaddy, yaddy, yaddy. yeah Thank you.
01:00:51
Speaker
And I'm like, I don't trust that chair. so I'm not going sit on it because I'm not trying to be horizontal on the ground in two seconds. So, you know, just that way of like checking in on folks and, you know, being like, oh, are you how are you feeling? Right. Things like that.
01:01:06
Speaker
But that, you know, it's also just like a very human approach to folks when you travel. Right. Just being like, hey, how are you? Like, are you Are you cool? Do you need some time? you need space? do you want to go eat this? you know And not making it just about you or the group dynamic, but making it about the actual people who are there with you versus like, ooh, girls trip or friends trip or you know, Galentine's. This is something for like every every kind of like group situation. like Be really considerate of the folks who are there with you, the actual individuals versus...
01:01:41
Speaker
you know, just to be a group. Right. Yeah. look I think that's great. And I think that's, you know, I want to continue that conversation, especially for any folks that are listening that are like organizing events and organizing trips, you know, that's kind of like very nuts and bolts, you know, ah very grounded types of tips, which I think are important. But I think also, you know, the woo woo in me um and you were like going to go on the like, not the 30,000 foot, like the 100,000 foot level of these conversations about travel and spirituality.
Conclusion and Connection
01:02:18
Speaker
um And so, yeah, I would love to know, just let the listeners know if there's any ways that you would like to, you know, people to follow you or connect with your work. um You know, please let folks know what what feels good to you. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, folks can always like, I'm on Instagram, right? I don't do the ticky-talky. I'm too old for that. Everyone around me does.
01:02:39
Speaker
suck Do you? see I just, ain't got time. But my, my IG is just S-R-O-S-A-2-4, S-R-O-S-A-24. But also like, you know, shoot me an email, right? Like, you know, whether that's to my school email or, you know, any other way of contact, we'll put the contact info up.
01:02:58
Speaker
um Yeah, I'm always happy to connect folks, to collaborate with folks, to exchange with folks, whether that's a conversation or some cafecito y pan, to flounce and bounce through a city with somebody. Hey, come on. Let's just do it. so Yeah, that mu all forms of communication for sure. I love that.
01:03:19
Speaker
You are such a blessing. i'm so grateful that travel and dance. And that is another conversation that we could go into about or the the ancestral love and healing power of dance. We will have that as a part three.
01:03:36
Speaker
yeah I'm here for it. I definitely believe that like ancestors brought us together, you know, and big up, uh, Kathy Hernandez, y'all should be following her and doing her online dance classes and in person. I'm going to, um, hopefully get Kathy, um, you know, on the podcast as well.
01:03:57
Speaker
for a whole other level of Kiki and comedy. I want bring you back for that. Then we won't get nothing done and we're just going to be sitting here laughing for like 30 minutes.
01:04:08
Speaker
And that is what? A blessing. so Ashe, Ashe, Ashe. But I'm so grateful to you. You are a true gem and a true light and I'm grateful just to be in community with you um and for all the laughter and the like presence that you bring to all the spaces.
01:04:28
Speaker
So just super big ups. And thank you to the listeners of Spirit in the Material World. I hope you found some delicious soul food and food for thought to take with you. And I pray that you're all well and taking good care of yourselves.
01:04:47
Speaker
Peace. Bye, y'all. Thank you.