Transcript
Speaker: This is Aisle 42.
Speaker: Welcome back to Aisle 42. In this episode, we chat with Arzina Hamir, a dedicated farmer, community leader, and advocate for local food systems. Arzina shares her journey from studying crop science and working internationally settling into a rural community and owning an organic farm. We dive into the challenges and nuances of small-scale farming, and we discuss cooperatives, ecological practices, profitability, and the consumer obsession with perfect-looking produce.
Speaker: Okay, let's get into it with Arzina from Lush Valley Food Action Society, because the future of food starts now. Arzina, we don't go very far back. Our friendship is new, but we found a lot of common ground when we did connect at a policy convention a couple of months ago. So I'm excited to have this conversation.
Speaker: And I'm going to kick things off with the big question. And that is, what's one change in the food system that would excite you the most? Ooh, um, You know, I think if we could see permanent support for local food, like primary products, I think to me that would make a huge difference all around. And by permanent support, I mean, you know, right now we're seeing a really big ah surge in interest in locally grown everything because of the tariffs that are happening across the board, um across the the line.
Speaker: And we saw a similar surge during COVID. So farmers are not unused to this. But if there was any way to make this more permanent, because as soon as tariffs are lifted, farmers know that, you know, people will start to to choose differently.
Speaker: And by permanent, what I would love to see is actually within government policy, local procurement include food products. And so that when you have hospitals and schools and colleges and all of our public institutions purchasing that a minimum 30% of that low food purchase be from within British Columbia and hopefully within the the local food shed of that institution.
Speaker: I love it. You just nailed like three of my questions, but we're going to go deeper on all of those things. So I'm not worried, but you answered as I hoped and expected. And so I appreciate being able to have this conversation with you because I think it's important and it isn't just about food security on a high level or some sovereignty or some elbows out rah-rah.
Speaker: It's about an ecosystem that's better for everyone. And I think our Our communities need this type of conversation and they need this type of action. So I'm excited to dive into that. So for listeners who don't know who you are, do you mind sharing a little bit about what you do and what it is that brought you to the place that you feel like you have to do more of this?
Speaker: I grew up in Richmond. My dad was in import-export and my mom was a teacher, but I was really drawn to agriculture and ah did my undergraduate in crop science at the University of Guelph.
Speaker: Met my husband when I was studying there and we worked internationally. So I've lived and worked in Thailand, in India, in Jamaica, Bangladesh.
Speaker: We came back to Canada in the 90s. And from then, i started working in food security, in supporting local food systems. And recently, and i've I've just left this organization, i was with the Investment Agriculture Foundation for a few years as a project manager.
Speaker: And that's where I actually got to see how our public dollars, our tax dollars are used to to create programs that support farmers and food processors. So I'm back to working in food security again, but I've kind of, so I've come for full circle, but i've I've had a taste of a lot in the food system.
Speaker: And I also run my own organic farm. So my husband and I own Amara Farm, which is located in the Comox Valley. Now you're going to have to define food security because I feel like, you know, people like us throw this around quite a bit. It's sort of a very common catchphrase, buzzword to use. But I wonder if for the, you know, the everyday person out there who goes grocery shopping twice a week that, you know, is looking at their bank account, that is thinking about feeding their children. And then for those that struggle with those things, what does food security look like from your perspective?
Speaker: Well, you've really touched on like a really big part of that. It is the ability to access affordable, healthy food for you and your family at all times.
Speaker: And so that means that during winter, when we know prices generally go up for fresh food, and it means regardless of where you live in Canada as well. So basically food for all at all times.
Speaker: I've traveled in places in the world where the further you get away, from a city center, those food costs just go up and up and up and to the point where like fresh vegetables and fruit is basically an absolute luxury for so many people. And so that's so tricky. You know, in Canada, we have the technology now that should no longer be a thing, right? That you can, you don't even know, need land anymore to be able to produce fresh fruits and vegetables.
Speaker: But really, it looks like it's political will and support for for communities that, like you said, are far from our distribution systems and where the cost of fruits and vegetables is just through the roof. So we need to maintain maintain and ensure that all Canadians have access to healthy food.
Speaker: And you have your own farm. I'm curious what you grow, produce, raise, nurture. do you Do you have an Instagram feed where you cuddle cows or goats or like Kevin Bacon play guitar for your animals?
Speaker: ah Not that I recall, but we have had some fun things like we were primarily a vegetable and fruit farm and now nuts. Hazelnuts are the newest crop. At one time, we were growing over 47 different fruits and vegetables.
Speaker: It was a lot. We ran ah a full CSA, community supported agriculture program from our farm that required a lot of diversity of products. And we've scaled back a little bit. Neil and I are in our mid fifty s So what we've now done is we are primarily focusing on our perennial fruits and vegetables and nuts, and we've leased out the vegetable side of the the farm to a young couple who are just getting their feet under them. And by next year, we fully see imagine that they're going to be going gangbusters on growing vegetables.
Speaker: So no sheep cuddling or fun things like that, but We did start at our farm, the Comox Valley Garlic Festival, and that has now emerged as its own thing, and that happens in August, so lots and lots of garlic.
Speaker: We still have lots of fun, beautiful things happening, just not a lot of furry creatures except for my two dogs. You know, I'll cuddle garlic. Yeah. I would do that. I would do that for you. I would sing to garlic. Yeah.
Speaker: stroking the garlic as it grows Yes. yeah Yes. i would I would make clothing out of it. i would i love i love garlic gas It's my favorite vegetable to grow. Yeah. it's Maybe sometimes to a fault, but i do love it. It's great that you guys grow it. And think festivals of any kind around agriculture can be a really wonderful way to gather a community.
Speaker: to celebrate the things that we grow and to celebrate the people that grow them. And that's really cool. I've been to your neck of the woods a few times. Well, many times, actually. do a lot of camping.
Speaker: I carry on past, go up north on the island, do a lot of camping up in that area, and I love it. So that's really cool. But when we think of these farmers, I mean, i' I've been around agriculture my whole life and my family had farms and ah co-ops were very, I'm not specifically talking about the store just yet, but like gatherings of farmers that, you know, sort of all contribute to one governing body that sort of gathers up produce, gathers up things and then redistributes them and sells them to a wholesale rate.
Speaker: These are not new. That's not a new thing. But I worry that it's actually becoming almost antiquated, and that we're seeing some of these co-ops really struggle to support farmers and everything's just getting more expensive. And the path to market seems to be breaking down at a time that we needed to work better than ever.
Speaker: What do you see on that side? I've had some time to study yeah cooperatives as well. you know i worked with Vancity on this about eight years ago, studying cooperate the cooperative movement in Italy.
Speaker: And we desperately need farmers to work together and access the the dollars for infrastructure that farmers really can't access on their own. you know i have started a couple of organizations.
Speaker: One is a cooperative that that works off of my farm. whereby we have about five farms now that are marketing collect collectively. like As much as I enjoy going to the farmer's market every Saturday, it's nice to have a day off sometimes on on a weekend and to be able to go camping during the summer months.
Speaker: And so... Marketing cooperatively allows farmers to take some time off during the summer months to share in the costs of tent and all of the infrastructure, coolers, trucks, wash stations.
Speaker: We have a system that we share a lot of our equipment because we've built it up over time. And we realize that new farmers are really struggling to be able to afford all of that infrastructure. So for us, it's almost like a farm incubator program that we have going on where farmers We're just asking farmers to concentrate on the growing.
Speaker: And then when it comes to the marketing, we'll take over and, you know, you get paid. And so, you know, that that's what I would love to see more of. I think one of the issues is that there seems to be within the North American culture, this desire to constantly get bigger and bigger.
Speaker: And I think that there is a point when you start to lose the democratic voice of of individual farmers when you get so big and, you know, you need management um and i'm I've got BC Tree Fruits in mind, right?
Speaker: You know, the demise of that cooperative, you know, over 400 members, where, you know, I think management and the membership, really, there was a big disconnect. So instead of constantly having to grow and grow, i mean, why not have a number of small cooperatives, regional cooperatives that meet the needs of of ah farmers?
Speaker: And then, you know, once you're established and stabilized, then you can consider whether or not you want to grow. But Growth for the sake of growing, I think, is is a really big issue that we have to consider that maybe it's just not appropriate for all types of of cooperatives or groups of farmers.
Speaker: But Absolutely. Hazelnut, that's a ah new crop for us in the Comox Valley. The province really put a big effort into encouraging farmers to plant hazelnuts by so subsidizing the cost a few years ago.
Speaker: So we now have like almost 20 acres of hazelnuts that are going to be coming into production here. And, you know, a dozen or so farmers who are all big trying to figure out how are they're going to sell this nut,
Speaker: That quite frankly needs to be shelled before there's a good market for it. And shellers are running anywhere between 30 and $40,000. That's a lot of money for an individual small farm, and but it makes way more sense if you are working collectively.
Speaker: So those are the types of like coming together of farmers that I'm really trying to encourage. That's so cool. Yeah. And it seems like at the food system side, everyone talks about scale and growth and doing it all faster and bigger and export markets and all these wonderful, you know, very GDP like conversations.
Speaker: But the reality is, is that you can only do this that type of stuff at a commercial or industrial level in so many places and spaces and with so much investment.
Speaker: When the small farmers go away, and that land turns into suburbs or just is abandoned, we lose ah piece of our humanity, don't you think? Oh, not just our humanity. i mean, i actually think of like food.
Speaker: i mean, i you literally are what you eat. You know, if you think about the vitamins, the minerals that you are getting from your food, that is coming from the soil.
Speaker: So, you know, to be able to eat something that is grown here from this place, I'm literally eating the minerals of the soil from here.
Speaker: I'm becoming, you know, more connected with this land when I eat food from this land. So it is, it's also a very physical connection as well as spiritual and emotional. yeah.
Speaker: All kinds of important connections are lost when you no longer know where your food is coming from. You win the Poetic Answer of the Year Award, by the way. Well done.
Speaker: Let's stay with the nutrient side. Let's stay with the soil side. When we look at things like organic and regenerative organic or regenerative farming or all these wonderful words that get used to describe the, hopefully the thoughtful and careful, you know, use of,
Speaker: chemicals or tools or supplements or whatever it is. When you look at and look at small farmers, small scale farmers, do you feel like that element is easier for them to embrace or it's infinitely harder for them to embrace?
Speaker: Oh, that's a really good question. It's not really one that I've thought about at scale. What I do know is that organic farmers, you know, really do concentrate on the health of their soil. And in order for them to you know continue farming ecologically, healthy soil means plants that are less susceptible to disease and to pests. It all starts with the soil.
Speaker: But I know there are also practices within the organic sector, especially in the vegetable side, rototilling, we do disturb soil in order to plant things like carrots that need a really fine seed bed.
Speaker: And I've seen some farms try and implement regenerative vegetable practices, and it requires about five times more labor.
Speaker: And that's just where I'm like, financially, this just does not make sense. I know ecologically it does, but I don't know anybody who would be able to afford this carrot if I farmed this way.
Speaker: Right. So I know like on a commercial scale and, you know, small scale farmers still need to make a profit in order or at least have their theyre costs paid for.
Speaker: So few farmers pay themselves, by the way, when they you know put together their pricing. So when I say a profit, that's basically what farmers are paying themselves. In order for them to do that, they really have to look at their labor costs. And for farming, it is all about labor, quite frankly.
Speaker: And how you, if in order to keep food affordable and accessible to people, there are some compromises that have to be made with the technology that we have right now.
Speaker: You know, I don't spray all of my weeds with Roundup in order to not rototill. So here are some, you know, checks and balances. I'm i'm not sure um at what scale fully regenerative like so that there's no soil disturbance where your cover crop, your soil is protected all the time.
Speaker: Right now I can see that working on the large scale on grain farms, for example, or, you know, with ah with beef production, with ah rotational grazing, but with vegetables, it seems there's there's a really big tension there about how to produce in a way that is still practical.
Speaker: It is a balance for sure. When we talk about scale, let's also talk about the size of the produce that's being made. I was at the grocery grocery store two days ago and I went to go get some sweet potatoes and they were the size of a football, each of them.
Speaker: And next to them were these carrots that didn't really, they looked like something from a like from an animated film. They were just gigantic. Now, maybe that's a breed that I'm not aware of. But anyway, looked weird. looked like like from some dinosaur or movie or something.
Speaker: Prehistoric is how it looked. What is, you know, the consumer sentiment out there is they want big and they want shiny. They want their tomatoes to have a gloss on them. what What are we going to do about the food system when everything is sort of made to look, you know, very unrealistic?
Speaker: Yeah. And here's where I was hoping, you know, a few years ago, Loblaws made the commitment to selling like irregular vegetables and like these inglorious vegetables.
Speaker: weirdly shaped stuff that would normally get either composted or, you know, maybe moved into the food processing side that people would be willing to, to purchase, you know, food, vegetables and fruit that may maybe cosmetically don't look, you know, like these, you know, fantastical vegetables you've seen.
Speaker: And I guess I have a little bit of an immunity um at the farmer's market because I am finding people are attracted the flavor of produce more so. And and it it can have, you know, because we're organic. Yes, we'll have some leaves that have small holes in them sometimes.
Speaker: And I think my customers are very aware that if it's too perfect looking, something has gone wrong. like That is not a food product that is part of the ecology or any you know is there's there's something that's been sprayed or that's been pumped into the vegetable to make it look that way. that way so I, yeah, I really hope that um people don't lose that aspect of like, what does food, what does this taste like?
Speaker: And choose flavor. And because with flavor comes nutrition, you know, as we know, these things that we're picking up within carrots, for example, I'll use carrots because that is the one vegetable that people can really taste the difference between a locally grown, organically raised,
Speaker: carrot versus like a more industrially raised one. The flavor just really stands out. And that's what's something that our customers are really looking for.
Speaker: But I know not everybody shops at the farmer's market. And so i think we need to do a better job at really pushing the things that matter, for which is not size, quite frankly. Yeah.
Speaker: Many years ago, I was in food service, and remember thinking so many times back then, when you know you you glean from the people that you are learning from and that are above you in the hierarchy of a kitchen.
Speaker: And the chefs I worked with, many of them, especially a couple of them, you know, if they saw really shiny vegetables, they were angry because they're like, they've done something to this. Like, this isn't going to be good. You know, if the garlic, ah not garlic, sorry, the ginger, if it just looked a little too pretty, they would just be, they're like, nope, send it back.
Speaker: Whereas at the grocery store, it's like, almost like it's merchandised, right? Like it's on display. like Well, we know, right? That, well, more so in the EU, but I think here too, you know, if the curve, well, I'm going to use long English cucumbers, for example. Like if there is any sort of curve in a cucumber, that's rejected because we're so used to these straight, pencil straight cucumbers.
Speaker: And they don't grow like that naturally. a few do, but often they they do curve and there's absolutely nothing wrong with the flavor, but it's so sad that we constantly are rejecting fruits and vegetables just for the way that they look.
Speaker: I agree. Well, I've really enjoyed our conversation. Thank you for the time. i have a feeling we could probably talk for hours on these things. So very cool. And I'm glad we're connected and i appreciate all of the good things that you're doing and that you're doing it on your farm.
Speaker: Thank you. It's my
Speaker: Thanks for listening to this conversation. i hope it inspired you to take a closer look at the producers and the growers close to you and to support them with your wallet, filling your fridge and your cupboards with the best your community has to offer.
Speaker: That's it for me. I'm Corwin Hebert. I'll see you in the future.
