Transcript
Speaker: know the Oscars went to, but should they have gone there? Welcome to And the Oscars Should Have Gone To, a place where we discuss, debate, and decide certain Best Picture races from the Academy Awards, and then reveal who we think should have been awarded the Best Picture Oscar that year. Maybe our Best Picture pick was clearly the movie everybody loved back then.
Speaker: Maybe it was an influential work that filmmakers still discuss years later. Or maybe it's just the movie that everyone everyone re-watched year after year As always, we recommend that you folks at home watch each nominee so you can make your own determination and then let us know how wrong we are. And with that, we thank the Academy. Let's start the show.
Speaker: And welcome back to In the Oscars Should Have Gone To. I'm Rob from Boston. I'm Glenys in Los Angeles. I'm Dylan in Los Angeles.
Speaker: All right. Two out of three ain't bad. um Anyway, we um we're going to be discussing 2004 or 2004, however you want to pronounce the year. um Again, though, before we start, I just want to say if you have any comments, questions, um please email us at the Oscars podcast at gmail.com.
Speaker: Okay, so the five films we're going to be discussing. Sideways, an American comedy drama film directed by Alexander Payne and written by James Taylor. Sorry, Jim Taylor.
Speaker: I know why he goes by Jim now. Sideways follows two men in their 40s, Miles Raymond, played by Paul Giamatti, a depressed teacher and unsuccessful writer, and Jack Cole, played by Thomas Hayden Church, a pastor's prime actor who take a week-long trip to Santa Barbara County wine country to celebrate Jack's upcoming wedding.
Speaker: Sandra Oh and Virginia Madsen also stars women they encounter during their trip. Ray, an American biographical drama film focusing on 30 years in the life of soul musician Ray Charles. It stars Jamie Foxx as Charles, along with Kerry Washington, Clifton Powell, Harry Lennox, Terrence Howard, Lorenz Tate, Richard Schiff, and Regina King in supporting roles.
Speaker: Finding Neverland, a biographical drama film directed by Mark Forster and written by David McGee based on the 1998 play The Man Who Was Peter Pan by Alan Nee, depicts the life of British author and playwright J.M. Barrie and the family who inspired him to create Peter Pan. The film stars Johnny Depp, Kate Winslet, Julie Christie, Rhoda Mitchell, and Dustin Hoffman.
Speaker: The Aviator. An epic biographical drama film directed by Martin Scorsese and written by John Logan, starring he Leonardo ducapro DiCaprio as Howard Hughes, Cate Blanchett as Catherine Hepburn, and Cate Beckinsale as Ava Gardner.
Speaker: It depicts the life of Howard Hughes, an aviation pioneer and director of the film Hell's Angels from 1930. It portrays his life from 1927 to 1947 when Hughes became a successful film producer and an aviation magnate while simultaneously growing more unstable due to severe obsessive-compulsive disorder.
Speaker: And finally, the winner in 2004, it's Million Dollar Baby, an American sports drama film directed, co-produced, scored by and starring Clint Eastwood from a screenplay by Paul Haggis.
Speaker: um The film follows Maggie Fitzgerald, played by Hilary Swank, an underdog amateur boxer who is helped by an underappreciated boxing trainer, played by Clint Eastwood, to achieve her dream of becoming a professional. Morgan Freeman also stars in this film.
Speaker: Dylan, why you help us out with Sideways? Tell us what you thought about that movie. Oh, what a delight. I quite like Sideways. um How do you describe Paul Giamatti's character? Say it one more time, Rob.
Speaker: Oh, a depressed teacher and unsuccessful writer. Yeah, it's basically every role he's done. Yeah. sells at it Pretty much. and Vaguely alcoholic sad sack who's smarter everybody else, but not smart enough to get his life together. Anyways. ha Yeah, sideways. I quite liked it. I'm a big Alexander Payne fan. um I thought it does. There's not much of a story like a lot of his movies, but I get swept up in the characters and he always picks these out of the way places like Nebraska.
Speaker: um um some college in new england in the suburbs or new hampshire i forget and then this one it's solvang which i mean rob do you know where solvang is had you ever heard of it before i don't and i've never heard of it yeah in california we know it looks just like that or the touristy parts like all german windmills and beer halls. it's It's very kitschy, but it's very pretty. It's like wine country. So very idiosyncratic. Everyone is vaguely unlikable except for the Virginia Madsen character um who makes up for for being overly naive. So the characters are all wonderfully flawed and realistic.
Speaker: um Thomas Hayden Church has never acted like this. He was great, wasn't he? He was terrific. You know, it's what they all got nominated except for Giamatti, which is odd.
Speaker: It's not funny. That is weird. Just wasn't enough space. I guess. Yeah. ah Virginia Madsen, journeyman actress, sorry, journeyman actor, but she was great in this. Sandra Oh, who's just a TV person. i mean So the acting, I thought, was uniformly great. um Again, not much of a story. So if you're looking for kind of plot movement, it's not really there. It's more like, I to say it's a series of vignettes like Robert Altman or something. there is a There is movement and it takes place in a weekend. So there is kind of ah an end goal where Thomas Hayden Church is getting married. This is kind of their guy's bachelor trip.
Speaker: And the Paul Giamatti character wants to discuss wine and literature and Thomas H. Church just wants to get laid before he gets married. So there's that kind of tension. um But I found it really funny while being realistic and ah no lessons learned. People learn about themselves, maybe at least the Paul Giamatti character, maybe the Virginia Madsen character. And it ends on a hopeful note.
Speaker: but I don't know, slightly bitter, I guess. Um, so I, if you like Alexander Payne movies or you like deliberately paced kind of low key comedies, it's almost like a Hal Ashby movie from the seventies, it's just characters, uh, kind of doing odd things. So if that's not your speed, then, you know, definitely don't watch it because it it can, it can be very, uh,
Speaker: I can see it being tedious for somebody, but I thought it was great just watching the actors play these kind of unlikable characters, just kind of bouncing around this place that is very unique and, and again, weirdly charming despite all its kitsch. So I don't know.
Speaker: I liked it. Glennis? Yeah, I think you're, i get i always get the feeling you're a a big fan. Yeah, but I do really like Sideways. I think that I like this on rewatches too. Like, I think the first time I watched i was like, oh yeah, that was pretty good. I think everybody, recalling everybody signed, kind of was surprised by it and liked it at the time. um And on subsequent watches, it just, to me, it gets better. It's like hard to pull off a movie of unlikable characters. And that's what this is. Like there's maybe one, Virginia Madsen is the one kind of sympathetic character. um Even Sandra Oh's character is like slightly unhinged and like bashes Thomas Hayden Church's face in, which is hilarious. um But everybody's a little bit unlikable. But I think somehow he pulls it off. Like I i like Paul Giamatti in this. just a little bit schlubby and a little bit, I don't know, um downtrodden. um And I think he pulls that off in this. And I think there's just some really wonderfully over-the-top moments, which I feel like is missing in modern-day moviemaking. Like, he's getting frustrated. He's out of wine tasting, and he just takes the... wine bucket that everybody has spit their wine into and just starts guzzling it. And it's like so disgusting and hilarious and like perfectly illustrates the how um fall but far down this character has fallen. Like he's stolen money from his mother and yeah
Speaker: Yeah, he's just she's just kind of a real shit hit. But somehow, somehow, I'm ending up rooting for him somehow. um And I just think all the characters are great and like surprise, awesome performance from Thomas Hayden Church because what really aside from wings did he ever do? oh I guess he was in one of the Spider-Man movies or something, but... Honestly, he's pretty good in this, I think. And yeah, I think for a Californian, it's fun to see all the live, the the the ah locations that they're at. Like they're actually at the locations, I think. I think they actually are in Solvang. And yeah um it's it's great. It's like the Southern California wine country, so which is less well known than the Northern California wine country, right? that They just go to the Central Valley. Yeah. The Central Coast, I mean. The Central Coast. Yeah. so So this is a lesser known wine area, but it's just like I think it's fun for a California to see too. um
Speaker: Yeah, I really like I really do like Sideways and I could probably watch that every few years and just be have fun watching it. So that's no, no, no notes on this movie. Like, I think it's a pretty perfect movie.
Speaker: yeah Yeah, I know it is. It's a very, very enjoyable movie. I think it's better with rewatches, which is um you know, a sign of ah of a good movie. Characters are multilayered characters. And, you know, they want to make sure, you know, that that Miles, Paul Giamatti's character is not the greatest guy when they show him stealing money from his mother, his own mother, you know what I mean, on her birthday. um And, you know, Thomas Hayden Church's character, Jack is, you know, seems good on the surface, but he really has some, you know, ill intentions. And Sandra Oh's character is kind of unhinged, as you mentioned, that you discover kind of later on. And she seemed really nice on the surface. Right. She leaps into this thing and then and then thinks they're like together forever. And then like, yeah. So every yeah even she is kind of a little bit unlikable in this. Yeah. exactly exactly yeah which which makes for a fascinating movie i think but um definitely the funniest of the five movies it's both like comedic and somewhat moving i think at the same time and um i laughed out loud a couple of times ah the scene where he's uh drinking the wine running down the hill yeah
Speaker: He's being chased. You got to see the movie to know what I'm talking about, but definitely worth seeing. I think all three of us can recommend it. um Did a lot for the wine industry when it came out. Except for Merlot.
Speaker: Except Merlot. It's funny. you year yeah do that Someone tell that anecdote, one of you guys. Yeah, the um he he likes Pinot Noir, Miles, Paul Giamatti's character. Loves it loves it. it's its it' so He talks about the grape and how delicate and gentle the grape is and and how it makes for a great wine and it's misunderstood, this whole thing. And he and he's like, Merlot, don't get that thing near me. you know what I mean? like um So, you know, he hates Merlot. So Merlot sales, I guess, dipped 2% across the country. after this movie and a 19% increase in Pinot Noir.
Speaker: Uh, so how i a weirdly influential, I guess it kind of was, which I didn't realize. Yeah, yeah. um it's it's I think it's the only movie of the five that has a three-day festival every year in California. There's a sideways fest every year. what? It's in California. you can read about it online. Just Google it. It'll it'll come up. It's a sideways fest. We're going to that. some Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Holy cow.
Speaker: probably the uh actually one of two that was adapted into a stage musical you hold on yeah yeah go back do we get to drink like spit yeah you get to wine from a bucket at the festival if you so choose that's what i want if it's your choosing to drink the secondhand wine yeah sorry that you just blew my mind i didn't even know yeah i don't think anyone's gonna stop you put it that way but okay um But i've always I always kind of hope they did a sequel to this movie because there's been sequel books. it was um Really? Yeah. There was some three books that came out by the author after this that were there was sequels and he's been hoping to get them made into movies and hasn't been successful. Same characters?
Speaker: Same characters, yeah. oh I don't want to know more. i feel like that. don't? oh No. I mean, I might read the books, but I don't want to know more from a those characters in a movie. I think it's just going to fall flat.
Speaker: um I agree. i would maybe read a book. but i'm I'm against sequels. Usually. Yeah. Well, I mean, if we read the book and fed, we could feel differently, but I haven't read the book. So, um, nominated for five Oscars, one for best adapted screenplay, which I think was very deserving. Uh, very good screenplay.
Speaker: But, uh, I think all three of us love this movie. We highly recommend it. Go see it. And that's sideways for you. Uh, let's move on. Uh, Glenis, you want to go first and take, uh, take Ray?
Speaker: Yeah, this was the first time I'd ever re-watched the movie. like I think I saw it at the theater in 2004. And I don't really remember what I thought of it at the time. I think I remember like, oh, this Jamie Foxx guy is pretty good. like That's a pretty good Ray Charles impersonation. And i so i don't remember thinking much more about the movie than that. So honestly came into it with fresh eyes. And i was surprised at how I really didn't enjoy it the second time around. Didn't enjoy it? I did not. I thought the direction was really hackneyed. Jamie Foxx is the best thing about this. ah did he get the He got the Oscar that year. for Oh, yeah. He's nominated twice that year. I know Dylan has feelings about like this being an impersonation, but he did do a pretty good Ray Charles impersonation. um Otherwise, the acting from the other characters feels really weird and unnatural and kind of old-fashioned. Maybe it's supposed to be that way, but it just feels like I'm watching a movie made in the eighty s about a movie set in the 40s and 50s i don't know so i didn't think that the other actors were were great um i was just like that the whole framing of him becoming an addict because he was traumatized as a child maybe that's true i think maybe he even has has mentioned that like he's always trying to run away from the events of his childhood but Honestly, just to, I think it's kind of, like i said, heck need direction to draw a straight line from those traumas to like, and here's why I'm like this today. I just think that a more skillful direction would have...
Speaker: made that more subtle. Um, I just thought the whole thing had this very 21st century therapy. What is your trauma? Um, I, I didn't like it. I didn't like that part. Um, you know, the overall trajectory of his life is he's like this super successful musician and things just keep getting better and better without a lot of friction. It seemed like, but that he's just got this addiction. so it just felt like a lot of manufactured drama to me. yeah,
Speaker: There was a part of his early life that I was kind of like his early musician life that I was kind of interested in that they just kind of, I felt like they kept glossing over very quickly. Like, it I don't know. I just wanted to know a little bit more about, obviously, it's always a struggle to become a famous musician. I mean, I think it usually is. um And it just seemed like he kind of sailed through. i think that that's,
Speaker: Probably not true. I would have liked to see more. So I think maybe, maybe this movie just didn't cover the bits of his life that I would have found more interesting. um There's a lot of repetition, like so many gigs and recording sessions. Like I get the point. He's a musician and just like overwrought and,
Speaker: overly long very salacious detox scene like we get it heroin's bad like how many minutes do you need to devote to this and um i don't know there's a recovery dream scene that i didn't like i would say just the whole thing fell flat for me i was like oh this is tedious um fun watching jamie fox but like you get over that and then you're looking for a bit more of a finesse in finesse's story so i guess i'm saying i didn't love this movie Did you like it?
Speaker: No. Okay. no No, interesting. I wouldn't i don't want ever want to watch it again, basically. I i i did was not left with a strong impression of it in 2004, and I can see why. And it's just like, eh, this left me. It just left me flat.
Speaker: the music and Jamie Foxx's performance alone would have been for a great movie. The fact that they dug into his life and, um, had made a biopic, made a biographical, showed him as a child and showed the trauma he went through as a child with his brother dying right in front of him. And,
Speaker: And that that kind of thing was, to me, it was all like a bonus. um just I think Jamie Foxx was just so incredible. I know you're talking about it being an an impression, but well that was me else as he's supposed yeah yeah but what else is he supposed to do? I mean, he'd see he's supposed to be Ray Charles. And he is Ray Charles. I don't know they should award it necessarily. but But they were like one person. like i I mean, after a while, it's like I forgot it was Jamie Foxx. I thought I was watching Ray Charles. um i don't know if that's just me. But you know what's interesting is Charles himself planned to see the movie um in its finished form, but never got to it because he died four months before the premiere. Oh, man. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Right. During the year the movie came out. But yeah.
Speaker: It shows all the scars of of him. His nate real name is Ray Charles Robinson. Charles is his middle name. It shows all his scars, his drug use, his affairs, and everything. It just doesn't hold back. I don't have a problem with that. I just think that the direction is is not good in showing that.
Speaker: Okay. Okay, well. that's That's more. it i You know, I don't have a problem with Ray Charles' life. It's just more like. Yeah, I mean, it is his life is what it is. They, you know, they embellish some things and made it Hollywood in a certain way. Like they said that the um him getting banned in the state of Georgia and then coming back in 1979 and getting that ban lifted was all fiction. He was never banned in Georgia. Oh, really? Yeah. oh Yeah. I didn't know that. I just assumed. OK, they did the research. I don't know. yeah every Everyone does because it seems like it was logical. it seems like that would be something that would happen. oh that But um Fox played the role blind. He wore prosthetics over his eyes and couldn't see when he was playing Dre Charles, which I thought was was really like getting into the role. He also played the piano himself. um I think people know he went to college on a classical piano scholarship, so they didn't have to
Speaker: to dub in like hands playing the piano it was really jamie fox which i don't know to me is oscar worthy in and of itself but um another interesting thing that i read about this movie just to kind of expand upon it a little bit but uh he read charles himself read the script and cut two parts out oh really uh he said they they had a part in there of him grudgingly learning the piano like oh i gotta practice it he says that never happened he says i always loved the piano and was always like always loved to even practice the piano. And then they had another part of him showing his mistress how to shoot heroin, and he said, that never happened. Ty feels strongly, that's got to come out. So they took those two parts out, again, making it kind of Hollywood. sure He didn't like that at all, but he left in the part about Georgia, which I thought was interesting. Yeah. Budget was $40 million. Took 15 years to secure the financing, but was ah was a huge, huge success.
Speaker: Could you picture anyone else besides Jamie Foxx playing Ray Charles? I couldn't. Eddie Murphy. was Maybe Stevie Wonder. He could good play Stevie Wonder. Not Ronnie Millsap? Yeah. I don't know. um But I loved it. I love this movie.
Speaker: Go see it. Dylan, what do you think? I think it's somewhere between us. It was okay. I mean, okay i remember seeing it the first time. I just, oh, Jimmy Foxx. Oh, cool. Right. I never saw it again. not because I was avoiding it. Just like, meh, whatever.
Speaker: So we watched it again. and I didn't realize kind of how um treacly it was. Mm-hmm. Yeah, this isn't to criticize Jamie Foxx. No, he did what he was supposed to do. But that's like saying, you know, ah wow, Chris Evans is so fucking good as Captain America. He's like, oh he he plays Captain America. Well, he did what he's supposed to like Yeah, yeah, no, he did what he's supposed to do. Like, yeah.
Speaker: So Jamie Foxx imitated Ray Charles. that That's cool. It's not a skilled acting job. He doesn't to create a character. doesn't have to come up with own nuance. So it's not that hard. It's an imitation, which is what the role calls for. I'm not... denigrating it and we'll get into your and just to be clear Dylan you all you feel like that across the board it's not just Jamie Foxx like you said the same thing oh yeah it's like Joaquin Phoenix playing Johnny Cash yeah well we talked don't like that yeah who's the guy don't like actors getting rewarded for that Oh, Chalamet. When he's doing Bob Dylan, like, yeah, super. he He seems like Bob Dylan.
Speaker: All you have to do is imitate Bob Dylan. You don't create a character called Robert Zimmerman and think of his thoughts and think of his back. like, you just look at Bob Dylan and imitate him. I mean, I'm not denigrating Jamie Foxx's performance. I'm saying it's not that hard compared to creating a character and stuff. he did what wants to do. But don't you think Sorry to interrupt you. Don't you think that's that's that's harder, though? Because it's like there's no room for error when you're imitating someone. Everyone knows what Ray Charles is like. People know what Bob Dylan is like. And there's no room for error. If you're trying to create your own character in a fictitious story, people ah you you can do it how you want to do it.
Speaker: you you know you know there's There's plenty of room for error and no one will ever know. No, it's like paint by numbers there. There is no room for error. You just paint the numbers and you did it like it's easy. That's right little kids do paint by numbers like that's why you disagree easier. You can just copy you just copy. That's like pretty simple. And most people like you said, I didn't know about Georgia. I mean, they're making shit up anyways. I don't know. I don't know Ray Charles. I barely know him, so they can do whatever they want. I knew a little bit about Bob Dylan, but I don't know what his private conversations were with Joan Baez. So like, especially maybe compared to Paul Giamatti, who we just talked about, who had to complete make a very kind of complex character where I kind of liked him, even though he's kind of a prick. Like that's really hard.
Speaker: And that's him acting. That's him making me care about the character, um which is a lot of skill. um And Jamie Foxx was very skillful as Ray Charles, but yeah, whatever. Hmm.
Speaker: Meryl Streep, I think, got the award for playing Margaret Thatcher. Oh, Streep got for, ah what a stupid award ah for Margaret Thatcher. It's like, you know, of all the 20 other incredible roles she got nominated for,
Speaker: She won for an imitation. A very good one. But it's like, again, compared to like, I won't say Sophie's choice compared to the devil wears Prada where she's kind of playing some of a kind of not. See, that's a good imitation. Like, wait, is that what that woman's really like? Cause it's not really, right she's not really playing on a winter. She's, yeah she's, that's snake that's a good thing. Yeah. Yeah. Kind of an analog for her.
Speaker: The other thing is I like Ray Charles's music. If you don't, you are screwed. That's one thing. Yeah, I don't. I'm not a big fan. That was also like. Two, I didn't mind the glossing over of things. You have to make a movie. I don't mind that. But here's what's more interesting. Oh, wait. He went to a private school and learned piano as a kid for the bri like by Braille. That's fucking nuts. Instead of like, it was a good, I counted, a good 15 minutes. of Oh my God, my my brother died. Like, yes, yes, your brother died. I know. Whatever. though i don't think it's a bad movie. I don't think it's a great movie. I think it's an okay movie.
Speaker: Moving on to Finding Neverland, a third of our five movies. i might as well go first to during this one. um I didn't really care for this movie that much. um Oh, yeah. I don't know.
Speaker: it it was i don't think it should have been nominated even. So, you know spoiler alert, I'm not going to pick it for my best picture at the end. So we're down to four. um i i i had trouble, maybe it's just me, but I had trouble seeing how this family, that Johnny Depp's character, J.M. Barry, drew a true person, a real person, how he this family inspired him to write Peter Pan.
Speaker: Yeah. i don't know. ah You know what i mean? I'm just like ah of all the families out there, they seem they didn't have a ah father. Okay, there's lots of families out there without with single parents. um I didn't see how they were, you know, I didn't see the Wendy character. I didn't see the i didn't even see the Peter Pan character. I didn't see how the the little boy was much like Peter Pan. Yeah.
Speaker: Just to kind of run through it a little bit, he was Johnny Depp plays J.M. Barrie, the author of Peter Pan, and he was sitting in a park bench one day. he was kind of a so-so playwright, had some failed um plays, and was just on the edge of this masterpiece, Peter Pan, and it's kind of showing how it all unfolds. And meeting this little boy who was under the park bench who was ah supposedly inspired him to write Peter Pan just by being under this bench and talking normally for a boy under a bench, I guess. He comes to, I mean, he becomes the yeah kind of a, but like.
Speaker: Like a surrogate father. Yeah, I mean, yeah he basically adopted the kids in real, in real life. This actually happened. So he actually kind of ended up. Yeah, I think. Hey, Winslet or did he have a, like a. No, no, she dies. Remember? Oh, yeah. No, I don't. Yeah.
Speaker: I actually fell asleep. had to re-watch. I'm serious. to re-watch the ending again because it it put me to sleep and I'm like, oh yeah, she dies. yeah the first The first time through, I didn't see her dying. right Second time through, I did see her dying. And I'm like, oh yeah. I had seen it back in 2004.
Speaker: yeah yeah I didn't remember that she died. yeah yeah Well, we didn't either. We couldn't remember the ending when we first started watching it. We're like, what happened? at the end of this movie and then it was like oh she dies so right in real life he does sort of adopt these in a sense or at least financially he adopts this family which I think is kind of an interesting story but anyway I'm not going to jump in yet but um yeah Yeah. More historically inaccurate, I guess, though, than even Ray Charles' movie was. though title Taking lots of Hollywood liberties during this um during this play. But I think the only thing I liked was the the score. And that one it won the Oscar for best score. And that was the only... Yeah, the only Academy Award it won was the the score. good The movie occurred exactly 100 years after the play, which I thought was another thing that was kind of an interesting fact. um
Speaker: I guess Johnny Depp and Freddie Highmore got along pretty well, and he chose Freddie Highmore to play Charlie Bucket and Charlie and the Chocolate Factory after this. Oh, do they both throw wine glasses at Amber Heard? That's cool.
Speaker: yeah Allegedly. Perhaps. perhaps Allegedly. um $25 million dollars budget made $115 million, which I think is pretty and impressive. Undeservingly.
Speaker: If it does appeal to people, you know they they say they they market it as a a movie that would appeal to people of all ages. I don't think it's a very appealing movie, but if it is appealing to you and you're of any age, then I think that...
Speaker: that was their goal to appeal to people of all ages so wait are you saying it's equally unappealing to equally unappealing to people of all ages how about that i like that i like that better than my uh yeah than my description of it um the actors are good actors obviously kate winslet's ah a good actor johnny depp's a good actor freddie highmore is a good actor obviously dustin hoffman but no one is pushed to their limits here um no one you wouldn't if you if this was the only movie you saw with those people in it you would probably think they were all nobodies i mean yeah you wouldn't you wouldn't know i mean was dustin hoffman's accent british or american like i i couldn't tell yeah we were talking about that weren't we glennus because you're saying oh he's playing british and somewhere along the line like wait do i think he's from new york or something i can't tell yeah I couldn't tell. I'm making plays here. Like, okay. To be honest with you, I've forgotten everything about the movie. And I, when you said Dustin Hoffman was in, it was like, oh yeah, that's right. Oscar winner, Julie Christie, like, oh, you need a new house or something? Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: yeah I mean, if i if i if I did have a positive thing to say about it, I think maybe Depp and Winslet had some chemistry going a little bit. Wait, can i say you said if I had something positive, implying, I mean, I don't, but if I did. if I did, this is what I would say.
Speaker: um I'd like to actually see them in something else. um Depp and Winston, have they been in a movie together other than this? I don't think so, but I'd like to see them together in something else, but not a lot of, not a lot of good things to say about this movie. It's not a bad movie. You don't watch and say, oh, this is horrible, you know, but it's just to the fact that it was not one of the five nominees for best picture. It just kind of, it's very, makes it disappointing. So that's what I have to say. What'd you guys think? Who's going next, Dylan? Oh, yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, again, it's not like it infuriates me. It's just, why was this made? um Yeah. Yeah, you're right. I mean, Johnny Depp's a good actor. He got nominated for this, which again is one of those things where it's like he's had such- Over Giamatti.
Speaker: Yeah, i' right. Yeah, it's so weird. Like you're giving Depp the nomination for this and not like a million other things. um ah Fair enough. ah Yeah, I mean, I just didn't care. I think the characters were very- They're like caricatures I didn't really get sense their inner life.
Speaker: And i don't know, Johnny Depp's having marital troubles, I guess. I don't know, because he's whimsical. i didn't really understand that. And don't know, Kate Winslet's sick with, I guess, consumption or melancholia. I don't know. And I- Wait, was the, you know what? You just reminded me something. Was the subtext that he's gay?
Speaker: Well, kept wondering because he's like, you don't want to fuck Kate Winslet? and Okay. And it's like, yeah, I kind of got there some subtext. Or your wife. Yeah. I'm trying to remember if in the real life that was. maybe not gay, but like he's such a child. He's almost asexual. Like, I'm really not interested interested in that. I want to, you know, fly in the clouds and shit. So I i took it more like that, although i don't know the real person. In real life, people I assume he probably was gay. But it seemed more he was like childlike. In the movie, I'm not saying the real person. I don't know anything about him.
Speaker: that's why, oh, I relate to the kids and I have this rich fantasy life and, and you know, I have trouble relating to adults. So that was my take on it. But, you know, who cares? Oh, if you read the Wikipedia, it says his relationship was unconsummated and the couple had no children. so yeah take with that but take from that what you will.
Speaker: Well, I'll take nothing because I'll never watch this again. ha It was fine. i mean, again, it's not something to get angry about. It's just more like, no yeah, I mean, they do their things and they act and they say their lines. And I guess it's supposed to be sad because she dies. You know, love story, callback.
Speaker: And um it just i just thought it was was pretty lifeless and not a lot was going on. And I thought it was a waste of those two actors. Giant Deb kind had to be like a toned down version of Willy Wonka and Kate Windsor is just supposed to kind of cry and look, you know, and fetching or whatever.
Speaker: And Julie Christie's like a content and Dustin Hoffman's like this, you know, i think vaguely Semitic money grubber. um So that was subtle. um So I don't know. It's okay. I mean, if you're into Peter Pan, I guess, or you like these two actors, maybe see it, or maybe you like that time period of a hundred years ago in England, or I don't know, I guess you could get some value of it, but it was just such a dull movie and I didn't get anything out of it. And i don't know, me and Peter Pan.
Speaker: That's cool. like I agree. let us Well, no notes on either of those reviews. I really agree with ah Rob and also Dylan that this movie, I had no recollection. and Like, I watched it at the time in the theater and I don't remember anything about it. And... um i i had to i I even had to pull up my notes that I made when I was watching it because I couldn't remember what I thought of it um this last time. But basically I said it was really boring, bland. um Not bad, but also not good. i think, you know, the thing about Johnny Depp is when he plays straight characters, he's not good at playing like a straight regular human um character. Hasn't been for a long time. Like he just comes across as very bland. He's not that compelling. actual... Acting is all pretty good, but there's just like nothing exciting going on. And i agree, Dylan, why did this need to be made? um
Speaker: It's just, it's, you watch it and you're going to immediately forget about it. And right yeah, I don't, I don't, there's not much more to say about it. that's You could skip it. There's not, you're not going to add anything to your, to your movie knowledge by, by watching this. So you can easily skip it Okay. So I guess that's everything we have to say about Finding Neverland. That's really all it deserves. Okay. All right. Let's move on to the last movie that was not a the Best Picture winner, The Aviator.
Speaker: I think, Dylan, it's your turn to go first on The Aviator. So what do you have to say about this? Scorsese is our weirdest national treasure. Yeah. But still a national treasure. Still a national treasure, yeah. he's He's probably the most talented director that's ever come out of America since Charlie Chaplin or DW Griffith. um In terms of his scope and his skill and his productivity,
Speaker: um And I think he gets a lot of kudos in popular culture for things like Goodfellas and Taxi Driver, but he's he's weird. He has European sensibilities.
Speaker: And for every Goodfellas, there's an aviator, which is not to say aviator is a bad movie, although I may think it's a bad movie. You'll find out. But it's like, this is a strange long movie about Howard Hughes, a guy who's kind of almost forgotten.
Speaker: And it's just about his kind of weirdness and his drive. You don't really learn much. I mean, there's little hints like, oh, I had polio or whatever he had. So that's why I'm the way I am. Or I don't know. i didn't really understand exactly. But it's an odd movie about this megalomaniac who seems to have zero self-awareness and is kind of callous to the people around him.
Speaker: But he's but he's i I don't think we're supposed to get ideas just because he's rich. People bend to him. I think we're supposed to get there like he's this driven. Visionary and that's why people want to be around him.
Speaker: And i don't know the truth of things. I i know Catherine Hepburn was a was a strong willed motherfucker. So I don't know at the actual nature of her relationship with Howard Hughes. Maybe he just was that magnetic or game recognizes game. But it's a really odd movie with some very interesting shots and very interesting sequences. Great supporting character. Well, like Kate Winslet, who won the Oscar. i sorry, Kate Winslet.
Speaker: Kate Blanchett, who won the Oscar. John C. Reilly pops up. My old friend, Matt Ross. um you know Alan Alda, his only Oscar nomination. Bob. Great supporting cast of just really finally drawn...
Speaker: character characters and and and almost every scene is kind of interesting but it just adds up to this long movie about a guy i never cared about and Scorsese doesn't give me a reason to care about him but it's it's like a weird art piece it seems like it's a populist movie and I I'm sure it did well it's got Leonardo DiCaprio who who's always just such an interesting actor, especially as time goes on. He always he always plays unlikable people, or at least complex people, um which is real thing. So again, it's an odd movie. It's it's ah America's Sweetheart playing this this kind of odd, weird guy, ah this sc Scorsese who, you know, kids wear his Goodfellas and Taxi Driver T-shirts. he's He's really in the popular consciousness, but every other movie is something weird like this, where it's just...
Speaker: technically dazzling and kind of interesting, but, but in the end doesn't add up to anything and it was pretty dull. And then he'll, you know, he probably followed up with like the departed or something. So I, because it's almost three hours, I cannot recommend this movie. It's three hours of Howard Hughes trying to get an airplane built and trying to show, um, I figure her name, Jane Russell's tits or whatever. And each individual scene, again, is kind of interesting, but it adds up to just a long, like, yeah, he just goes through his life, getting what he wants.
Speaker: And then I don't know. I don't know. So I wouldn't even say it's worth to see Cate Blanchett because again, great Catherine Hepburn impersonation, like wonderful. But yeah she's done so many other incredible roles and she did get the Oscar for Blue Jasmine, for example. so um I don't know how it uses like, so I don't know what we don't know. Capri was doing. So I don't know. there I didn't find anything compelling about seeing this movie. And I don't know why Scorsese made it, except he's kind of weird. and he does weird movies. I think, you think his' pop Dylan, i mean do you think that he likes to make movies about Hollywood and making movies? Cause I'm thinking about Hugo.
Speaker: Oh yeah. And, and then this, and maybe it's just, that's, that's a special little niche project for him to make movies about making movies. Oh, no. He's one of those guys that that he makes documentaries about movies. He has a whole series, which I quite recommend, um My Voyage to Italy, where he goes over the post-war realism of Italian movies in the 40s, 50s, and 60s. He's one of those guys like, oh, I'm part of the you know Federal Film Preservation Society. Yeah, yeah. No, he's totally into movies. that That's absolutely... And I do think he likes making...
Speaker: movies about uh movie makers which howard hughes was um so no i think you're on to something there glennis uh and that's why i mean it's almost like this is my personal he's one of those guys one for me one for them he always has been so i'll be like i'm gonna do the color of money which was very popular got paul newman an oscar then i'm gonna do the temptation of christ with nuns picketing outside like he's always been like i'll do one for you then i'll do one for me he does good fellows he does like age of innocence you know so which was hugo was hugo for him you know that was pretty um I think so. Yeah, I think that was for him. him Because i I think when we did this, i had to look into It didn't do that well.
Speaker: um So yeah, I think that was for him, like the magic of movie making. So I think i think you're both right. I think, Glennis, you're right. Part of this was sort like, he's not just the aviator, Howard Hughes, even though that's the name. but He's this movie producer who's trying to get his vision across. And then Rob, yeah, I think this is, even though I i assume this is wildly popular,
Speaker: it It is kind of a one for him because there's no real plot or story structure or all the characters around him grow, but he himself never grows. He's always, I mean, he goes crazy, but he's still kind of him. So I really can't recommend this. It's way too long and you don't get anything out of it. And all the actors have performed way better in other movies. So I, I really have no rec. I don't think you should see this, but you have at it, Rob.
Speaker: Yeah, i agree I agree with everything you said. i don't i don't have ah a lot to expand upon there. it just I did feel a little empty after having watched this movie. um i I felt like i I knew him, yet I didn't know him meeting him, meaning Howard Hughes. I was more impressed with DiCaprio's performance.
Speaker: But again, couldn't really check it against Howard Hughes because none of us really knows what Howard Hughes is like. Good point. like Is he doing a good job? like I don't know. He's a record. I don't know. yeah He's no Ray Charles. You know what i mean? Kind of kind it different. um I don't know. Maybe I'll focus on some some of the other facts of the movie because I don't like you said it so well. I couldn't really expand upon that. And I don't think it's worth getting into anymore. Yeah.
Speaker: Budget of $110 million grossed $214 million. So, you know, there it is. um He was at the beginning of the movie, he was an eccentric billionaire. And I guess what billionaire isn't eccentric, you know what i mean, in a certain way. right um Then he becomes like a reclusive madman at the end. But again, they they didn't really, they they just showed things like one quick time. Like they showed him washing his hands in the bathroom because he had OCD. And that's one of the main things that people with OCD do is they're obsessive like hand washers.
Speaker: But it shows like his hands bleeding because he washed them so much. So that's supposed to cover like a whole part. Like you're supposed to know that he has major OCD because his his hands are bloody. um He repeats things, he repeats phrases over and over again. um I forget, what what what did he say at the end of the movie?
Speaker: There was something. i I forget what it was. Maybe you'll think of it as close as talking. yeah But he he repeated it like over and over and over. So that's supposed to be his his OCD. A lot of movies that were made or attempted to be made about Howard Hughes, people just think he's such an interesting character. But I don't think this movie did it did him justice. i I don't think the character that... Oddly enough, I don't think the character that they... made in this movie would have liked to this movie.
Speaker: You know what i mean? Yeah. Yeah. um you know is you know there's some interesting parts like you know he's he's trying to film like aircraft and they didn't have cgi back then so they use model airplanes in the sky and he said you can't tell how fast i'm moving because there's no clouds give me some clouds give me some clouds you know so they're like they' they're calling all over the place to find out where there's clouds and what was it like oakland or something like they go from southern california to northern california to find some clouds so they're all you they're all up and going to oakland to try to find some clouds to fly these planes because they don't have the technology to show how fast they're moving something like that was mildly interesting but um no still not worth worth seeing but some of the actors that were looked into to try to play howard hughes or johnny depp edward norton they were gonna actually slate it to star as hughes but the movie they uh They got, they backed out. This is an interesting one. Later they were considering John Travolta and Jim Carrey.
Speaker: I would have liked to see Edward Norton actually. And Norton would have been interesting. I think he looks a little bit more like Howard Hughes too. Yeah. Does he? Yeah. But the interesting part is Michael Mann stepped in after that time to direct. And he was the director of the film and was ready to direct. He's the one that picked DiCaprio, not Scorsese, even though they are buddies. And then Scorsese came in after DiCaprio was cast and directed the movie. Yeah.
Speaker: And another another interesting fact is that Hughes' OCD began to affect his everyday functioning. DiCaprio had OCD as a child and had to go through therapy to try to overcome his OCD so he could kind of relate to it a little bit. Was his OCD that he can only date women under the age of 25? It's a compulsion. Don't judge. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. um and And they didn't really cover Howard Hughes' early life, which was a major complaint of mine. Just throw, I mean, just like in in the Ray movies, throw something in there when he's when he's younger. Hey, that's a good point. I wasn't clear, like, is this his family's money or is he a self-made man? That's point. don't tell you Yeah, so i was like, how risky is this venture? Where he's like, well, it's my money. It's like, but I don't know, are you extremely wealthy and this is nothing to you? Or is it really like I could lose everything? So I didn't understand the stakes. That's a good point. Like, I guess we're as we're supposed to know that.
Speaker: Yeah. Well, the guy died fucking 50 years ago. where I looked it up on Wikipedia. So. yeah Oh. Yeah. Interesting. I think he was very rich. Yeah. I think they were just. the He was like a billionaire in a time where millionaires were the thing, you know? Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, Glennis, what'd you think?
Speaker: um Again, no notes for either of those reviews. I'm pretty much in agreement. It wasn't a horrible movie, but at three hours, i don't i don't know if there's a point to seeing this about Howard Hughes. who i still At the end, I still wasn't entirely sure what he contributed. i mean, I guess some aviation stuff. but um Yeah, good point. In my mind...
Speaker: In my mind, he built a big wooden plane. Did that happen in the movie? like this wars Wasn't that the spruce goose? language and And then in my mind, it was also the one that crashed, but no, he actually flew it. So the things I had remembered about this movie were all mishmashed up. And and and in the end, it just... it Rob, you said it perfectly. You said, it left me empty. And I was like, yes, this left me empty and yeah um robbed of three hours, which I did not appreciate. And I do like a lot of Scorsese. I wouldn't say I'm a Scorsese fan, but, you know, like you said, he does one for us and one for himself, I guess. um I think this was for himself. Yeah.
Speaker: I wish, now that you'd said I wish um Edward Norton had played. ah Yeah, think that would have been interesting. Yeah, I think that would have worth been more interesting. and i this was that i DiCaprio hadn't won me over at this point. I think he's, as an older actor, he's won me over. But in this movie, I still find him very childlike, which is just like, oh, what is this child doing with kate ah Catherine Hepburn or Cate Blanchett, right? It just seems like she's...
Speaker: almost like his mother, even though I'm sure they're similar in age. But he just, I think he lacked the gravitas to play an adult at that point. He always seems that he seemed like a kid up until Wolf of Wall Street, then he finally looked like he had turned into a man. This was probably around age 40 for him. so um So I would say, like, DiCaprio's not at his best in this either. So I don't know. There's just not a whole lot going on with this movie, I would say, that that you need to see.
Speaker: to expand your movie knowledge. ah I wish I had more to say about it, but I don't. I didn't even i didn't even make notes. I was just like, oof. Yeah, no, that's well said.
Speaker: Okay, so the final movie. Glennis, why don't you take us to A Million Dollar Baby? Oh, Mokushla. Double Glennis here. Mokushla. You know what? I remember seeing this and thinking, wow, that was a really good movie. And I was really curious if it was going to hold up like nearly 20 years later. And I would say that it in fact did hold up. um Yeah. i think there's only two things I didn't like about this movie.
Speaker: One was i just don't like a a voiceover, like a narration. um it was just too much. I do love, of course, listening to Morgan Freeman talk. but Yeah, they had him at their disposal, so I can use him as the yeah voiceover guy, too. You're going to be in every scene, Morgan. um I just generally don't like voiceovers, and I've always thought that's a lazy um storytelling technique. i um I think that it allowed him to maybe...
Speaker: Not have to tell parts of the story with just the acting, but it's a small quibble. It's not terrible. And then, like, honestly, the only other thing that bothered me, it's such a small thing, and it's only probably going to bother me, is that Jay Baruchel's fake Texas accent is terrible. And Jay Baruchel's not a good actor. So, like...
Speaker: It was fine. and It didn't ruin the movie. But those are like the only two things. So I will say that I do like this movie. I like a lot of Clint Eastwood movies. And I do think he makes movies that are very sentimental, very old-fashioned. But um the acting in this movie and then the ending ah really just makes up for the fact that you think this is going to be like this kind of old-fashioned, sentimental, happy ending, good movie. And then they have this wild ending... ah That just makes you go, what was this about?
Speaker: oh my God, I need to contemplate all of my life's choices. um So I think that it's probably the best acting of Clint Eastwood's career. ah I mean, Unforgiven is also good, but like he's really good in this. He's really like really touching my heart in this. And I mean, it is ultimately an uplifting movie.
Speaker: Maggie, the main character. i mean, let's just give away the ending. Okay. If you haven't seen it. Ah, come on. She dies at the end. Does she? Did you watch it, Rob? Yes, I did. Yes, I did. She has a terrible accident in the ring and basically she's left paralyzed and on a respirator and it's really sad. But really you realize she got so much more out of life than she really ever expected. she died doing the thing she loved most or was wounded basically doing the thing she loved most, having become almost the best at it. And she also found somebody who really loves because obviously her family doesn't. And, you know, Frankie, Clint Eastwood character is redeemed for whatever horrible thing he's probably done, which we don't, I love that they never tell us, but he doesn't have a relationship with his daughter, keeps sending letters. And so I think like without,
Speaker: whacking us over the head with a frying pan as none of us really like. um It really is just a very subtle, like you come to your conclusions about how all of this ended. Was it a good, happy ending or was it a really horrible, sad tragedy? I think it, it, it was a great ending for all the characters. So I do like this movie a lot. It held up all these years later. um yeah i don't know i guess uh i guess i'm a fan other than those two little tiny things that i mentioned okay yeah good yeah i think this was a uh fantastic movie i i really loved it as well um i think if i don't have as much negative to say even as you did i think the only thing i didn't like was maybe the title um Million Dollar Baby. i had to look it up. And it was like from a sunny list in Muhammad Ali fight. One of them called the other a million dollar baby yeah during the fight. And that's the only thing they could kind of come up with online as to why they named the movie this. I mean, she didn't win a million dollars. She wasn't a baby. um But anyway, I love the movie. um What did you love about
Speaker: What I loved about it, I loved the three of them. I didn't mind the voiceover, unlike Glynnis. I can see what she's saying about how it can be a little bit lazy into storytelling, but I think when you have Morgan Freeman and you have a story to tell, And you don't want to make the movie three hours. I think that's the way to go is to some some ah some voiceover work. But I love the the acting. I think Hilary Swank, i mean, why isn't she just a huge, like, megastar? I just don't know. I thought after this movie she was going to go through the roof.
Speaker: but She's got two Oscars. I mean. she Yeah, I know, but still. like Because they don't really make the kind of movies. that They don't make the kind of movies. They don't make as many of them anymore. they yeah you know It's all action films. so yeah you know yeah There's only so many roles available out there.
Speaker: True. Critics loved it. The people in the theaters loved it. It was both a critical and commercial success. um It made $217 million dollars in theaters alone after only a $30 million dollars budget, something that Eastwood, I'm sure, was proud to pull off. But this this wasn't like the a typical Clint Eastwood movie. i think That's what I like about him is he can do a lot of A lot of different things. He can be Dirty Harry and star in The Unforgiven and direct The Unforgiven and and do something weird like Gran Torino or
Speaker: and come back with Million Dollar Baby. i mean, you know, the one best picture. um He had Hilary Swank do a lot of training for this movie. She added 19 pounds of muscle. she was He was real concerned about the fact that she was kind of like light as a feather coming into the movie and kind of like slim and not very bulked up. So he had her bulk up quite a bit, and you can see that paid off during the movie. Yeah.
Speaker: it was sold as kind of, there's another weird aspect, but it was kind of sold as a female Rocky, but did not advertise like how dark it was. And I think they did that on purpose. So you could really be surprised at the ending. Yeah. um You, you don't, you think after the first half of the movie, you think, you know, exactly where it's going to go. Yep. You think you do. Of course, she's going to win in the end, or at least, you know, come and come in a close second and, and have a moral victory like Rocky did in the first Rocky movie or, Something like that. And you're going to feel good at the end of the movie and you're going to tell people to see it because it's a real feel good It's not like that at all. You know, like, like Glenn is spoiled for all of us. She dies. and it's been 20 years. Watch the fucking movie. Yeah. So um yeah I don't think it was too long or too short. Another kind of message that it leaves you with is, you know, some people like with disabilities, like activists and things like that did not like the message that life is a life with a disability is not worth living kind of thing. So it can kind of get you talking. Sure. And it's one of the few movies like, you know, maybe sideways a little bit can get you talking. This one can get you talking. I like things to talk about after the movie's over that are not necessarily
Speaker: but may or may not be part of the plot. You know, it's kind of like a side thing here. Like, you know, is, is, is, is life worth living with that kind of a disability? And there are people out there that think like, yes, it is. You can make the most of what you, what you have. You can go on and give speeches about, you know, ins inspirational speeches. You can go and get a college degree. You know, you don't, you need your brain for certain things and you don't need the rest of your body to excel at certain things in life. And,
Speaker: you know, let's it's a topic for a good conversation, I guess. yeah But they i so I saw, I forget where it was, it was a long time ago when in the movie came out, there was an interview with Clint Eastwood when he was promoting this, and they asked him what his feelings were about the whole, you know, putting putting the character to to death a scene at the end. And He said you know he blew away people with guns in his movies too. he doesn't mean that's what he thinks is the right thing to do. so Right. Yeah, I'm not making a a moral pronouncement on whether somebody with a disus of you know profound disability should live or shouldn't. It's like it's it's what that character was choosing. and It's a movie. yeah And the conflict that puts him in. he's like he's he's kind of He loves this character now. like it This is his replacement daughter, basically. And she's asking him to do the worst thing. And he has to decide, is that like, you know, do I do i do my selfish, you know, needs or do I do what she wants me to do?
Speaker: kind of Right. and yeah It's like you have to really love someone to to death in order to kill them. And and the and and he's not happy at the end. If this character disappears, we have no idea what happens to him, right? Like, it's like he he might say, well, I didn't want to do that. And now I have to live with the misery of having to have done that. So I think, like, if they're making it about whether somebody with disability should make the best of their life or not not, like, you're missing the point of the movie. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. Another good talking point at the end. Like, what do you think happened to him at the end? You know, you know Morgan Freeman wrote a letter to his his daughter telling him, like, what kind of a character, like, he really is, what kind of character he really had.
Speaker: But where'd he go? You know, do you think he just dropped out of society to become Howard Hughes? Or do you think he's just kind of took on a new persona? Do you think he's going to get in touch with his daughter? Did they allude to it that he went and lived in the country or something like that? Did I mention that? I have a theory. I'll tell you later. Oh, okay. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. but Anyway, i can't wait to hear that theory. so let's Let's get to it. but That's what I have to say. Love the movie. See the movie. It doesn't go where you think it's going to go. Sorry we ruined the ending. Casablanca, Humphrey Bogart, and Ingrid Bergman don't get together. Oh my God, what? No, i've been waiting to see that. You ruined it. Dylan, you're up. um Yeah, this is one of those movies I think is great. I never want to see it again.
Speaker: and Really? it's just It's way too fucking intense. One, Glenn, you make a good point. it's it's not about something about living with disabilities that misses the point of the movie. It's about she fulfilled her dream. She became self-actualized. She became who she wanted to be and maybe who she was.
Speaker: After that, there's nothing left. It's not necessarily like I can't live like this. It's more like, well, I did it. and I can never go back to that. So what's the point? Which is interesting and ah totally defensible. The Eastwood character is apparently a good Catholic. That's why he keeps going to church. So to euthanize someone is against his religion, but it's the right thing to do in his mind. I think he discusses it with the priest who basically says they're both wrong choices, which is very morally complex, right? And that's a hallmark of his films. In one way, he's very old fashioned.
Speaker: hearkening back to Frank Capra and John Ford and Howard Hawks. He's he's like, you don't you't look at a clean music movie like, oh, that's a Clint Eastwood angle or, well, that's a Clint Eastwood directable choice. you know he's He's very much a craftsman like Ron Howard Angley, but almost always, not always, but almost always his movies revolve around complex morality that is rare in movies. I don't think he ever gets enough credit for that. So whether it's Unforgiven or Mystic River or Flags of Our our Letters from Iwo Jima,
Speaker: His movies are always about a moral choice where you're wrong no matter what. That's real complex. He's the last guy that does adult movies. Scorsese doesn't. He does art movies even when they're popular. Spielberg does big budget spectacles. um Alex Erpain likes weirdos. Clint Eastwood's the last one and one of the few.
Speaker: And you can go back to John Ford actually because he was very much about moral choices where almost all his good movies are about someone has to make a choice where either so either one's wrong. So which is the least of all wrongs?
Speaker: And that's ultimately what the the movie's about. um And it's i think it's ah I think it's a great movie. it's not um but Normally he lets the story just unfold at its own pace, and at adult pace. Sometimes it's a little slow, but it's like it's for adults, it's not for kids. And the characters gradually reveal themselves. So in that sense, he is one of the greatest directors, not in a Spielberg way ah where it's technical. And not in Scorsese way necessarily where it's very striking, but he lets the story breathe, which is very rare. He makes movies for adults. The movie itself is great, has a lot of things to talk about, like Rob said, has great boxing scenes. I like boxing. It's like, oh no, they look pretty good. Like they know what they're doing.
Speaker: Morgan Freeman's funny. He's great. um And to answer your question, I don't know if this is what is intended, but the Maggie character says something to Clint Eastwood. And I forget who said I forget who brings it up or who says it But something like you know what heaven is? Heaven is this diner where you have like key lime pie or something like that.
Speaker: I don't know if I'm supposed to get that he's dead or he and he's gone to heaven or it's some sort of emotional resonance where he he got to do something for the Hilary Swain character and that makes up for whatever fucked up relationship he has with his daughter.
Speaker: But it seems to be a hopeful moment where he's at peace and he's in heaven. i don't know if that's supposed to be literal, but they had mentioned it, but that's what heaven is, having the key lime pie in this fucking middle of the woods diner. So I think it's i think it's supposed to be a but ah note of optimism and hope at the end, whether he's actually in heaven or it's just an artistic choice to make us think something that's how I read it. But I think everyone should see it at least once. It's I think it's a great movie. And I think if you don't know the ending and you should, it's still, it still has kind of like a reveal where it's like, oh it's not a sports movie. It's a father daughter movie. Oh, that's kind of more interesting. And then the ending, the last third comes with like, Oh, this is a whole other fucking thing. So I think it's great.
Speaker: I think it's a terrific movie that everyone should see at least once if you can bear and grin at place. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. but and and And again, it won Best Picture. So, and critical and commercial success. So, Dylan, what would you have picked for Best Picture in 2004?
Speaker: Oh, easily Million Dollar Baby. Okay. The Million Dollar Baby did make money. It was critically acclaimed. Yeah. It's the only movie that's even vaguely talked about out of those five. And I think objectively, it's great. Hilary Swank, second Oscar, deserved it.
Speaker: I don't remember who else was nominated, but she's great. Morgan Freeman, he got his makeup Oscar. He probably should have won it for other things, but I get it. It's like, oh, it's your turn. You haven't won one. Um, Clint's got nominated for best actor. He should have won. Um, but you know, happy to be nominated uh, it's, it's clearly the better movie out of the other five. I don't just mean, i think it's more enjoyable cause it's more complex. I think almost objectively it's like classically better than the other movies. Um, so I, I, I don't think there's a I don't think there's an argument between these five to to be perfectly frank. Um,
Speaker: I think it deserved best picture. I think it is best picture. He got best director. um And like I said, should best actor. So I think it's ah i think it's a masterpiece. Great. kinds Yeah, I also picked Million Dollar Baby. I feel like it's rare that I agree with the Academy that they got it right this year, but I think Clint Eastwood deserved the Oscar on this one. Well, I guess the producers get it for Best Picture, but... Well, was producer also, so... Perfect. Yeah, I think i think this was the right movie. It was just, for all the reasons we just talked about, it was... it was
Speaker: pretty much head and shoulders above the rest of the movies um not a perfect perfect movie but almost a perfect movie um and just will leave you with a lot of feelings after and so yeah i'm glad i'm glad this one was picked um is that now rob i have a question is that what you thought we were going to go for or did you think yes yeah yes no i i thought you're both going to pick million dollar baby um And in the end, I went with Million Dollar Baby um because, like you said, the the emotional gut punch of the whole thing to steal one of your phrases um really um lasted for a few days after seeing this movie. The the direction changed. challenging in this movie i think uh and eastwood pulled it off um whereas the dialogue was the thing in sideways i think sideways should have won best screenplay i'm glad it did um the the um the just listening to the the the dialogue and sideways kind is what really made me consider it for best picture but
Speaker: but it's million dollar baby it's doesn't go where you think it's going to go it's multi-layered multi-faceted brilliantly directed brilliantly acted uh kind of a masterpiece a movie that i really wish people were still talking about a little bit more than they are it has lasted people do remember it so million dollar baby is my my my pick uh and wow all three of us agreed with mr oscar Cool. Okay. Pretty good. So let's wrap this up. I think we we did it. We all agree. and We agree with the Academy, and um they know what they're talking about in 2004. Who are we talking about ah for our next episode, or what year are we doing for our next episode? Yeah, Dylan.
Speaker: Well, so we are going to do 1980, humdinger of year. The winner was Ordinary People, and the other nominees were Tess, The Elephant Man, A Coal Miner's Daughter, and Raging Bull.
Speaker: Well, thank you all for for listening. Tune in again next week for 1980 and remember to email us at theoscarspodcast at gmail.com. All right. Thanks, everybody. Bye-bye.
