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Ep 144: Keith's Revenge
141 Plays1 year ago
Keith back to talk about the new "Jaws the Revenge" and "The Shark is Broken" challenge modes. There's also a ton of juicy nuggets you're not going to want to miss!
Recommended
Transcript
Podcast Introduction
00:00:07
Speaker
Thanks for tuning in to loser kid pinball podcast.
00:00:09
Speaker
I am Josh Rupp with me, my co-captain as always, Scott Larson.
00:00:14
Speaker
And we've done this already once or twice.
00:00:15
Speaker
Did I say it was episode one 44?
00:00:17
Speaker
Uh, you did now.
00:00:18
Speaker
So that's great.
00:00:19
Speaker
Perfect.
Special Guest and Game Discussion
00:00:20
Speaker
Scott, we have a special guest on today.
00:00:22
Speaker
That's going to talk about his most recent game and, uh, about the new code that just dropped.
00:00:27
Speaker
If you're going to buy this game, where are you going to get it?
00:00:29
Speaker
I'll contact Zach and Nicole mini at flipping out pinball.
00:00:32
Speaker
Uh, they can definitely get you hooked up with the jaws of your choice.
00:00:36
Speaker
and see what they have.
00:00:37
Speaker
I know I personally just ordered a black and white Godzilla that I'm putting at my friend's house.
00:00:42
Speaker
And so I'm really looking forward to seeing that in person.
00:00:45
Speaker
So if you want to get your pinball needs, just go ahead and contact Zach and Nicole Manny at Flipping Out Pinball.
00:00:50
Speaker
Awesome.
Jaws Game and 8-bit Nostalgia
00:00:51
Speaker
Well, we have the legendary Keith Elwin on with us today, and you've dropped quite the juicy little mode on this Jaws game called Jaws the Revenge.
00:01:02
Speaker
Where did this even come from?
00:01:03
Speaker
This is pretty epic, in my opinion.
00:01:05
Speaker
I love 8-bit.
00:01:06
Speaker
I love the nostalgia, so this is right in my wheelhouse.
00:01:10
Speaker
Whoa, where to start?
00:01:14
Speaker
So this was born out of my...
00:01:17
Speaker
ADHD towards pinball.
00:01:21
Speaker
As you can see, I love older games.
00:01:24
Speaker
Yeah.
00:01:26
Speaker
I think they're, you know, they're great for, you know, playing with people, you know, playing a quick game.
00:01:32
Speaker
And so when I was making Godzilla, I was like, man, I love Godzilla, but I don't always have like a half an hour or 20 minutes to dedicate to playing a game.
00:01:42
Speaker
Sometimes I just want to play a really quick game, which is why I have so many older games in my collection.
00:01:48
Speaker
So it was kind of born out of that where I was just like, you know, it'd be fun just to have, you know, an existing play field with a totally different rule set, a much simplified rule set.
Creating New Game Modes
00:02:00
Speaker
So that was an idea I had towards the end of the Godzilla.
00:02:04
Speaker
And then when we were talking about doing Jaws, I was like,
00:02:11
Speaker
oh, I want to make a simple rule set, you know, probably not going to get many assets, so, you know, this will be perfect.
00:02:18
Speaker
And then Jody's like, here, and he dumps all these assets on me.
00:02:22
Speaker
So I'm like, okay, so I've got to make a lot of modes to use up all these assets.
00:02:26
Speaker
So, you know, I kind of just, all right, whatever, you know, I'll make a simpler game later.
00:02:32
Speaker
And then when, you know, Bond 60, it actually kind of came out right after I started Jaws and
00:02:38
Speaker
you know, the response is like, oh, this is great.
00:02:39
Speaker
I mean, I could play a game in 10 minutes.
00:02:41
Speaker
They have a lot of fun.
00:02:41
Speaker
So then I just got thinking, what if I just make an entirely different rule set on the same, you know, based on the same play field, using different assets, you know, just its own thing.
Inspiration from Nintendo Classics
00:02:54
Speaker
And that's how it was born.
00:02:56
Speaker
Nice.
00:02:57
Speaker
Now, did you grow up?
00:02:58
Speaker
So I, I grew up playing Nintendo and this feels like a classic Nintendo Entertainment System game.
00:03:05
Speaker
Is that kind of what you're going for here?
00:03:07
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I used to, there was a circuit city down the street from where I grew up and I used to ride my bike down there and they had a Mike Tyson punch out, you know, on display mode.
00:03:18
Speaker
So you can play, it was like two and a half minutes or something.
00:03:20
Speaker
You can play it.
00:03:21
Speaker
I would go down every day, hang out there, play that, you know, finally bought my own Nintendo and yeah, I had pretty much every Nintendo product since, but yeah, it was definitely inspired by my childhood.
00:03:34
Speaker
Nice.
00:03:36
Speaker
I will say it seems like with Mike Tyson's Punch-Out, when I first saw this mode, it totally reminded me, at least the vibe, of the training.
00:03:45
Speaker
You know, when he's going from the circuit and he's running.
00:03:50
Speaker
Yeah, one of my favorite games was Contra 3, so I pretty much just took that intro and rewrote it for Sharks.
00:03:58
Speaker
Nice.
00:03:59
Speaker
That is awesome.
00:04:01
Speaker
Yeah, if you're a Contra 3 fan, you probably recognize the, let's attack aggressively.
00:04:05
Speaker
That's straight from Contra.
00:04:07
Speaker
Okay, is there a way of doing the up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, BA code?
00:04:10
Speaker
Because that would be
Music Influences
00:04:12
Speaker
awesome if you can get 30 guys on there.
00:04:13
Speaker
Yeah, infinite power up.
00:04:15
Speaker
Yeah, you can.
00:04:18
Speaker
you never lose health.
00:04:18
Speaker
You just get to go right through the game.
00:04:20
Speaker
God.
00:04:20
Speaker
Yes.
00:04:21
Speaker
Yeah.
00:04:22
Speaker
Oh my goodness.
00:04:23
Speaker
I got it.
00:04:23
Speaker
I don't know if you can confirm or deny, but the invincibility song reminds me of rally X from Atari.
00:04:30
Speaker
Is that, is that where that came from?
00:04:32
Speaker
Or is, is that different?
00:04:33
Speaker
I have no idea.
00:04:34
Speaker
I, um, I say, Hey, Jerry Thompson, I need, you know, I need some power of his things.
00:04:39
Speaker
And he sent me a few different, um, things that he bought.
00:04:42
Speaker
And I was like this one.
00:04:44
Speaker
And, uh, yeah, I don't know exactly where, uh,
00:04:48
Speaker
uh it came from or uh you know but it it sounded it had a very uh i thought very mario vibe so yes it's kind of what i went with it's kind of what i was looking for so yeah and it sounds great it sounds perfect because it's like you're just intensely in this game and all of a sudden it's like boom you know you're you've leveled up and you've got you've got some power now yeah we got all the rgbs like you know cypene rainbow colors and it's like yeah it's like oh this song's perfect
00:05:15
Speaker
Well, I've got to ask too.
00:05:16
Speaker
So I was listening to Triple Drain a couple days ago, and Joel asked a question on there.
00:05:20
Speaker
And I figured, well, I'll ask you and see if you can
Game Concept Approval
00:05:23
Speaker
answer this.
00:05:23
Speaker
But how do these concepts get greenlit?
00:05:26
Speaker
Like, in other words, these games don't have modes like these.
00:05:30
Speaker
So what was the thing that convinced the higher-ups to say, yeah, we're willing to invest in a project on this?
00:05:37
Speaker
Oh, you just, I mean, there was no convincing.
00:05:39
Speaker
I just, hey, I have this cool idea.
00:05:44
Speaker
So my pitch was, Johns is, you know, it's a very dark game.
00:05:47
Speaker
It's a very serious game.
00:05:49
Speaker
Obviously it has little sprinkle elements of humor with, you know, Quint singing, dancing, being drunk or whatever, but all in all, it's a very serious game.
00:05:58
Speaker
And I remember early in development, Elizabeth was like, man, this game's so dark.
00:06:02
Speaker
Can't, you know, can't the swimmers ever win?
00:06:04
Speaker
And I was like, well, no, because we can't modify the assets to make that happen.
00:06:09
Speaker
So that's kind of when I got the idea.
00:06:11
Speaker
It's like, well, you know, if we make our own
00:06:13
Speaker
you know, little eight bit things, we can do whatever we want, because, you know, they don't look like anything.
00:06:18
Speaker
So, you know, we're not using anyone's property to do anything else.
00:06:22
Speaker
And so that's kind of why it's its own little standalone mode and not built into the game.
00:06:27
Speaker
But that's how that started.
00:06:29
Speaker
And it like I said, I just
00:06:31
Speaker
I pitched that early on and then when the game was released, I think George made a video saying, you know, turn the tides and play as the shark.
Standalone Mode Development
00:06:41
Speaker
At the time, I had no idea what we were doing.
00:06:45
Speaker
That's how last minute this thing was all cobbled together.
00:06:48
Speaker
I was like, yeah, I have this idea.
00:06:50
Speaker
I'm going to play as a shark and it's going to be goofy and stupid.
00:06:53
Speaker
And, you know, it's going to be action button base.
00:06:56
Speaker
So it was just, I just wanted something to become total opposite of the main play where lighthearted, dumb, and you're not doing stuff you would normally do in a pinball machine, which is, you know, constantly having to hit the action button while juggling, you know, multiple balls.
00:07:12
Speaker
Oh, I love there's a purpose to hitting the action button.
00:07:15
Speaker
Like,
00:07:16
Speaker
It just made me chuckle.
00:07:17
Speaker
I'm playing this and I'm like, Tealus is going to hate this mode.
00:07:19
Speaker
That's what I was just wondering.
00:07:21
Speaker
What's Jeff going to say?
00:07:23
Speaker
Yeah, I think he's boycotting it.
00:07:29
Speaker
You're going to have an action button mode champion or something like that now?
00:07:35
Speaker
Those chomps, yeah.
00:07:36
Speaker
I think he's just going to wear a strap on a hand to his belly button so it just goes up and down and just hits it all the time.
00:07:44
Speaker
Well, it is fun to like trap up and use your chin or belly or whatever.
00:07:48
Speaker
Yeah.
00:07:49
Speaker
Well, I love it because my son loves this game.
00:07:52
Speaker
We're never getting rid of Jaws.
00:07:54
Speaker
It's his favorite.
00:07:55
Speaker
He's now into sharks.
00:07:56
Speaker
He wears shark something every day to school.
00:07:59
Speaker
It is what it is.
00:08:00
Speaker
And so the other day when this code came out, I'm like, buddy, you hit the action button.
00:08:03
Speaker
So I guess I was kind of cheating.
00:08:05
Speaker
I don't know.
00:08:05
Speaker
So I'm playing the game, and he's chomping.
00:08:07
Speaker
He's like, yeah.
00:08:08
Speaker
He was way into it.
00:08:09
Speaker
He's just – let's eat these people.
00:08:11
Speaker
That's a team-up mode, Josh.
00:08:13
Speaker
Team-up.
00:08:13
Speaker
Exactly.
00:08:14
Speaker
Yeah.
00:08:15
Speaker
He was giddy.
00:08:16
Speaker
Yeah, that's definitely a team of fun.
00:08:18
Speaker
I know Josh, I mean, Jack and Kyle were joking about that on the stream.
00:08:22
Speaker
It's like, you hit the action button for me.
00:08:24
Speaker
You know, it's kind of like a co-op.
00:08:27
Speaker
All you do is chomp and I'll swim to different beaches.
00:08:29
Speaker
How's that?
00:08:31
Speaker
Yep.
00:08:31
Speaker
Actually, this is a really good way, though.
00:08:34
Speaker
There's a lot of games, as you said, there's a lot of your games that tend to be a little longer playing.
00:08:39
Speaker
And basically repurposing the existing game that you have so you can have, like, a party mode or a challenge mode or things like that that you can do with four buddies really quickly.
00:08:49
Speaker
It's like, hey, you know, in some ways you do, you know, like a speedrun or a competition or who can get the most points in two minutes or whatever, like unlimited balls, something like that.
00:08:59
Speaker
And so...
Multiplayer Features
00:09:00
Speaker
it seems like a smart way to transition toward the next phase of pinball because a lot of us have run out of space in our downstairs.
00:09:10
Speaker
And, you know, so if we have different ways of playing the games, then that's actually a great option.
00:09:15
Speaker
And you guys already started that with, you know, the, you know, you can jump to, you know, jump to a mode or, you know, the escape from Nublar, you know, things like that.
00:09:24
Speaker
And so this is a great way of continuing expanding the asset that you already have.
00:09:30
Speaker
Yeah, this is I wanted to gear this towards multiplayer.
00:09:33
Speaker
So, you know, the mode cost shark teeth to play, but only player one gets charged.
00:09:40
Speaker
So if you want to play with your buddies, they don't even need to log in.
00:09:43
Speaker
They can, you know, they can join a four player game with just, you know, as long as one of you is logged on and charged teeth, the rest, you know,
00:09:52
Speaker
is free.
00:09:53
Speaker
Well, it's nice too, because it costs less teeth too.
00:09:55
Speaker
It's only 10 teeth versus 20.
00:09:57
Speaker
Yeah.
00:10:00
Speaker
So this mode took way longer to come out than we'd hoped.
00:10:04
Speaker
We'd hoped to have this pretty close to launch.
00:10:07
Speaker
So kind of make up for that.
00:10:10
Speaker
We decided to just reduce across the board the number of shark teeth.
Scary Elements in Jaws Game
00:10:14
Speaker
You don't want to frustrate people who
00:10:16
Speaker
you know, spent all their shark teeth playing, you know, the video mode because that was all they had.
00:10:20
Speaker
And so that was a decision we made.
00:10:23
Speaker
They had tons of problems with the shark during the movie, but in addition to it, they actually had like an earlier jump scare.
00:10:32
Speaker
And when they were testing the testing the video in audiences, they actually found that when he jumps out of the, uh, out of the ocean to get the, uh, you know, get the chum that he's, he's putting in, it actually became like a less of an impact.
00:10:50
Speaker
when they had the earlier one.
00:10:52
Speaker
And so they took that out, but it's, it, it, it's an interesting thing about, you know, building a, building a scary movie.
00:10:58
Speaker
It's like, you have to, you have to time it so it can't just, everything's a jump scare.
00:11:03
Speaker
Yeah.
00:11:04
Speaker
Yeah, like in Jaws 2, the entire time you're following the shark.
00:11:07
Speaker
Yeah.
00:11:08
Speaker
And I actually think it's a solid movie, but it's just more online what we expect from a action monster movie rather than Jaws 1, which I think is more of a buddy, intense, bonding movie for its time, which was a great movie for its time, for sure.
00:11:28
Speaker
But I think if he made that today, probably, you know, people wouldn't have the patience for it.
00:11:33
Speaker
But, you know, like Jaws 2, which is kind of just action, action, action.
00:11:38
Speaker
You're seeing the shark.
00:11:38
Speaker
That's probably more of a modern movie.
00:11:41
Speaker
I actually like Jaws 2 even more than Jaws 1 just because it was a little different.
00:11:47
Speaker
And also it was him convincing that, hey, there is another one out there.
00:11:52
Speaker
And people were just kind of blowing him off.
00:11:54
Speaker
So that was that was an interesting tidbit for the movie.
00:11:58
Speaker
And of course you have kids in danger.
00:12:00
Speaker
So, you know, I think a few kids got eaten.
00:12:03
Speaker
So that's always good.
00:12:03
Speaker
And helicopters got eaten.
00:12:04
Speaker
I mean, come on.
00:12:07
Speaker
I just knew I had to do something with that scene.
00:12:08
Speaker
So I was, oh man, that was just so epic.
00:12:12
Speaker
Does the shark bite the cable at all in your game?
00:12:17
Speaker
We have the assets.
00:12:20
Speaker
So we still have three more modules coming.
00:12:23
Speaker
So for sure you'll see everything you're expecting to see.
00:12:28
Speaker
That includes fighting cables, slapping widows, you know, everything that you think should be in the game will be in the game.
00:12:35
Speaker
What about the terrible underwater scene when, you know, Jaws comes and breaks through the glass?
00:12:44
Speaker
I can't remember which one that was.
00:12:46
Speaker
You're just like, really?
00:12:48
Speaker
Jaws 3, yeah.
00:12:50
Speaker
We took all the Jaws 3 assets and threw them into our little...
00:12:56
Speaker
kind of the challenge modes, not the challenge modes, but when you replay a mode, we threw them in there just to use them.
00:13:02
Speaker
I was going to say, I've seen it, but yeah, you have to complete all the modes once, and then when you go back through, you see them again.
00:13:07
Speaker
Yeah, I had no other use for those other than, you know, hey, check it out.
00:13:11
Speaker
Here's some assets.
00:13:14
Speaker
So I'm going to ask the question again, because I'm assuming, because this is saying take two, so I'm just going to ask the question again.
00:13:19
Speaker
So Keith, you guys revealed a new mode today called The Shark is Broken.
00:13:24
Speaker
Where did this mode come from?
00:13:26
Speaker
Yeah, where did it come
The Shark is Broken Mode
00:13:28
Speaker
from?
00:13:28
Speaker
Is it exclusive just to the topper, or is this going to be added to the game later as well?
00:13:32
Speaker
It is exclusive to the topper.
00:13:33
Speaker
It's its own standalone challenge mode.
00:13:36
Speaker
And I put Elizabeth Gieske in charge of this mode and one of her favorite things about reading up about Jaws and the lore of Jaws is all the trouble they had filming this.
00:13:50
Speaker
And so her idea was like, hey, wouldn't it be cool if instead of being in the movie or being the shark, here's this third take, you're on the movie set and you're trying to get this thing to work.
00:14:01
Speaker
Her imagination just kind of ran from there.
00:14:03
Speaker
And so you'll see they're trying to record, but this is a black screen with static.
00:14:07
Speaker
So they get the shark moving and then all of a sudden the assets start working.
00:14:11
Speaker
So yeah, it's kind of a brilliant take on a different view that I don't think has been done before.
00:14:17
Speaker
No, I agree.
00:14:18
Speaker
It's way cool.
00:14:19
Speaker
And I love how when she's getting these little glitches, as you guys were revealing in the stream today, it was like, oh, I ran across this bug, so I decided to put it in this mode.
00:14:27
Speaker
I just found that out on the stream.
00:14:30
Speaker
I almost complimented her, right?
00:14:31
Speaker
It's a really good glitchy effect you put there.
00:14:34
Speaker
She's like, oh, thanks.
00:14:35
Speaker
And then on the stream, she's like, yeah, that was an actual bug, but I liked it so much, I just kept it in there.
00:14:40
Speaker
It's like the pop bumper flipping the mini flipper.
00:14:42
Speaker
It's like, yeah, I'll throw that in there as well.
00:14:44
Speaker
That really messes with your mind.
00:14:45
Speaker
It's like, wait, what?
00:14:46
Speaker
I didn't.
00:14:47
Speaker
Wait, I can't do this.
00:14:48
Speaker
What?
00:14:49
Speaker
Yeah.
00:14:51
Speaker
People try to time it out and everything.
00:14:52
Speaker
How do I use this to my advantage?
00:14:55
Speaker
Yeah.
00:14:55
Speaker
Okay.
00:14:56
Speaker
Speaking of the jaws, the little mechanical thing, you know, at Universal Studios when, you know, back in the 80s, they have the ride where you go through and jaws comes out of the water.
00:15:06
Speaker
If you remember back in the day, so Jason Bateman.
00:15:11
Speaker
If you know the actor, he was on silver spoons and they filmed on that lot and they actually had to go talk to him because there's like, Hey, um, when you guys are on break, you and Ricky Schroeder go down and you're like playing in the pond with the shark coming out.
00:15:26
Speaker
And it kind of ruins the ride for people because they're seeing two kids just swimming around and the shark jumps up and like, Oh, okay.
00:15:34
Speaker
Okay.
00:15:35
Speaker
Yeah, I remember the original iteration of that ride.
00:15:37
Speaker
They called him Carrot Tooth because he had such goofy teeth.
00:15:41
Speaker
There was actually a Columbo episode too where they filmed there.
00:15:44
Speaker
Yeah, that's awesome.
00:15:46
Speaker
Okay, one thing I was noticing in the stream is there's a one-handed mode.
00:15:51
Speaker
So is this just activated when you hold the center button or do you have to start from the beginning?
00:15:57
Speaker
Yeah, when you press start, if you hold down the action button, you enter the one-handed mode.
00:16:02
Speaker
I believe it's 5x scoring.
00:16:04
Speaker
And in order to flip, you have to be holding down the action button.
00:16:08
Speaker
So right flipper or left flipper, if it senses both flippers, you just tilt out.
00:16:14
Speaker
Oh, so you always have to.
00:16:15
Speaker
So, okay.
00:16:16
Speaker
So you can't really swap unless you're doing the whole Indiana Jones idle swap thing.
00:16:21
Speaker
You can't put your gut on the action button and use both flippers.
00:16:25
Speaker
It'll sense that.
00:16:26
Speaker
Yeah.
00:16:28
Speaker
So long as you're not holding the center button, because there was like multi balls you went into as well.
00:16:33
Speaker
Once you get the shark working, which means it brings up to 100%, then it restores power to both flippers and you play as normal.
00:16:40
Speaker
And then once that multi ball lands, you enter back and the shark is broken again.
00:16:44
Speaker
And then you got to do the repairs.
00:16:46
Speaker
That's the percentage you see on there as you're making shots until you get to 100 again.
00:16:50
Speaker
Are you also going to have a mode where you can't trap up, where if you hold the flipper, it just flips and then goes all the way back down?
00:16:57
Speaker
No, but I told her she should do a mode where you have to use the action button to flip the upper flippers.
00:17:02
Speaker
Oh.
00:17:04
Speaker
So will you get to the Shark is Broken through the startup menu, or will you encounter in the game with the topper?
00:17:11
Speaker
No, it's strictly a challenge mode.
00:17:14
Speaker
So you enter the menu.
00:17:16
Speaker
If you have the topper connected, it'll show up.
00:17:19
Speaker
If you don't have the topper connected, you won't say anything.
00:17:21
Speaker
So you don't have to be online or anything.
00:17:23
Speaker
It just has to have the topper connected.
00:17:25
Speaker
Gotcha.
00:17:27
Speaker
Okay, cool.
00:17:30
Speaker
Okay.
00:17:31
Speaker
When JAWS was pitched, so here's the question.
Why Jaws as a Theme?
00:17:35
Speaker
I know there's lots of ways that themes come about.
00:17:38
Speaker
Were you in a meeting where they said, these are the potential licenses, and you said, I want JAWS, or did you come to them and say, I really want to do JAWS?
00:17:49
Speaker
I was given a couple choices, and I chose JAWS.
00:17:52
Speaker
Okay.
00:17:53
Speaker
And honestly, I was a little worried because I wasn't sure.
00:17:57
Speaker
how well it would work as a theme because like I said, it is so dark.
00:18:00
Speaker
It is so, you know, kind of gritty and it's more of a buddy movie than it is like an action movie.
00:18:06
Speaker
But the more I studied it, the more I was like, you know, there's a game here.
00:18:11
Speaker
And so I threw my hat in the ring and said, yeah, I raised my hand for this one and the rest is history.
00:18:19
Speaker
So when you're choosing a game, like, what, I guess, what elements go into you selecting to say, yes, I think this can be a pinball machine?
00:18:31
Speaker
Well, in this case, the really appealing thing is this theme has never been done.
00:18:36
Speaker
And there's very few water-themed games.
00:18:38
Speaker
There's very few, you know.
00:18:40
Speaker
Shark games, you know, it sounds stupid to say, but I can't think of any other shark related pinball machine.
00:18:46
Speaker
So that was, you know, a huge thing for me.
00:18:49
Speaker
It's like, you know, I, you know, I don't always want to do something that's already been done a hundred times.
00:18:53
Speaker
It's nice to take a fresh take on a fresh license.
00:18:56
Speaker
That was the number one thing.
00:18:58
Speaker
And then of course we'll just like, well, what next do we make around this?
00:19:02
Speaker
And, you know, we just talked about, I kind of wanted, you know,
00:19:05
Speaker
the playfields and ocean, that's kind of a given.
00:19:08
Speaker
I want to have a shark under it and then the boat on top of it.
00:19:11
Speaker
And that's how the whole design started.
00:19:14
Speaker
Well, and credit to Michael Bernard.
00:19:16
Speaker
I mean, the artwork on this is amazing.
00:19:18
Speaker
Like it's not like, it's not busy, but it still fills the space while filling like it, like that it is full.
00:19:26
Speaker
You know what I'm saying?
00:19:27
Speaker
I mean, looking at like Deadpool and looking at Godzilla, it's very packed.
00:19:30
Speaker
Like Jeremy Packer does a fantastic job with that.
00:19:34
Speaker
But Michael Bernard was able to,
00:19:35
Speaker
make it feel like an ocean but not feel like make it feel barren so yeah yeah yeah we had a lot of conversations i was you know this is obviously gonna be a lot of water but i think at the bottom of the play field we can probably do something unique and then the top half of the play field with a shark fin and the shark are you know it's gonna be water i don't know we can do some variants on the plastics and stuff but you know i actually really like the artwork on this so
00:20:01
Speaker
And I think there was a limitation of, well, there's not much you can draw because we're in the ocean.
00:20:05
Speaker
But, you know, it works.
00:20:09
Speaker
So I can't remember if Scott asked this earlier or not, but how close are we to 1.0 and what's preventing it from being at 1.0?
00:20:17
Speaker
Well, we just spent a boatload of time making this 8-bit mode.
Challenges of 8-bit Mode Development
00:20:21
Speaker
So if you guys haven't noticed, there hasn't been many updates lately, and that's why.
00:20:24
Speaker
And up until two weeks ago, it was awful.
00:20:30
Speaker
So you can ask anyone who played the beta, they were just like, yeah, this is all right.
00:20:36
Speaker
Because normally the way we do it is like we'll implement the rules and we'll add the assets later.
00:20:41
Speaker
Well, this was backwards because we had all these 8-bit animations.
00:20:45
Speaker
We also needed 8-bit UI, 8-bit background screen, all this stuff that went into the standalone mode that we had to put in before we can even start on the rules.
00:20:55
Speaker
So when we first just got it functional and we put it on beta here at Stern, everyone was like, no.
00:20:59
Speaker
oh yeah, this looks cool, but man, it's boring.
00:21:01
Speaker
I was like, yeah, we know.
00:21:04
Speaker
It'll get there.
00:21:05
Speaker
And even like a week, up to a week before the stream, before we got all the rules in, like the multiball progression stuff, the little bonus game in there and everything.
00:21:13
Speaker
Yeah, it was very just, oh, this is all I do forever?
00:21:17
Speaker
And it's like, yeah, we'll get there.
00:21:19
Speaker
Don't worry.
00:21:20
Speaker
And then sure enough, the 11th hour, we got everything in.
00:21:23
Speaker
We were trying to get in.
00:21:24
Speaker
We're still missing a couple of things, but it'll be in the next release.
00:21:29
Speaker
Okay, so walk me through the mode.
00:21:30
Speaker
I did see the stream, but for people who haven't seen the stream, describe what the mode is and how you actually, because there's different lanes that you choose and how you eat things.
00:21:41
Speaker
So walk me through the mode.
Gameplay Mechanics
00:21:45
Speaker
So the idea of the mode is, word gets back to the sharks that Bruce has been killed, and they are mad.
00:21:53
Speaker
And they are so mad that they are teaming up the Mako, Thresher, Tiger, Hammerhead,
00:21:59
Speaker
and they're led by the great wife.
00:22:01
Speaker
He was like, hey, Bruce was killed.
00:22:04
Speaker
Let's go get revenge on these bounty hunters.
00:22:07
Speaker
They're all hanging out in Amity.
00:22:09
Speaker
Let's just go get their attention.
00:22:11
Speaker
Let's just start wreaking havoc.
00:22:14
Speaker
So you start off.
00:22:16
Speaker
It's just a normal day.
00:22:18
Speaker
You have five shots, the main shots of the game.
00:22:22
Speaker
They all represent a beach.
00:22:23
Speaker
These are all labeled on the play field themselves.
00:22:27
Speaker
So you start off
00:22:29
Speaker
at the pond and there's already a swimmer there.
00:22:31
Speaker
So as soon as you launch, you'll see the action button start flashing.
00:22:34
Speaker
He's like, oh, there's a swimmer there.
00:22:35
Speaker
So you start hitting the action button and you'll start chomping on the beach goer until you chomp them enough to make them perish.
00:22:44
Speaker
And then for every, you know, every shot you hit, you move to that beach.
00:22:48
Speaker
So if I shoot the middle ramp, I move them to the north beach.
00:22:52
Speaker
I shoot the right ramp, I move them to the east beach.
00:22:55
Speaker
So wherever you see, you know, swimmers, and you see these on the inserts too, the beachgoers, you also see boats, which are represented by the color arrows.
00:23:04
Speaker
The mode lights are used to show you the position of the shark that shows you where you are.
00:23:08
Speaker
And if you see the beach closed, that means there's a police boat on that beach and there's no swimmers to be eaten.
00:23:16
Speaker
So you have to destroy that police boat to open that beach back up.
00:23:21
Speaker
So you're just kind of swimming around, you're going to different beaches, you're chomping on beach goers, you're destroying boats.
00:23:26
Speaker
Well, the more you do that, the bigger bounty you build.
00:23:30
Speaker
And once you get a big enough bounty, then you start attracting bounty hunters.
00:23:33
Speaker
And this is a completely different stage.
00:23:35
Speaker
So after your bounty reaches a certain level, you'll get this whole timer warning, hey, bounty hunters are coming after you.
00:23:41
Speaker
So we enter this stage where it's a showdown versus the bounty hunter.
00:23:45
Speaker
So now you're in a stage where there's these roving green shots, you have the green shots,
00:23:52
Speaker
Ideally, if you combo them, they do twice as much damage.
00:23:55
Speaker
But you can also just shoot the boat itself, Ben Gardner's boat in the middle.
00:23:59
Speaker
And you're just, you know, working down their health until you can finally destroy them.
00:24:03
Speaker
And the higher rank you are, which is, you know, Mako Thresher, Hammerhead Tiger, Great White, the bigger rank you are, the more bounty boats that will come after you.
00:24:12
Speaker
And you also have things like power-ups.
00:24:15
Speaker
If you knock down the drops or in the pro, if you complete the stand-ups, it'll light one of the shark tower targets that roves around.
00:24:21
Speaker
When you hit this, you're now invincible.
00:24:23
Speaker
Not only are you invincible, but you get like one chomp kills.
00:24:28
Speaker
So in the case of the bounty hunter, when you're invincible, you don't take any damage, and each green arrow you hit or the bow does double damage.
00:24:36
Speaker
Okay, nice.
00:24:38
Speaker
So it's definitely beneficial to go after that.
00:24:39
Speaker
You're just kind of making your way through.
00:24:41
Speaker
You're just wreaking havoc on Amity.
00:24:44
Speaker
Your ultimate goal is to get your bounty level up to $10,000 to lure Quint out after you.
00:24:49
Speaker
So Quint's the boss level.
00:24:51
Speaker
Quint will be the final boss.
00:24:52
Speaker
It's not in yet.
00:24:53
Speaker
He should be in soon.
00:24:56
Speaker
But we kind of made it artificially hard, so you should probably, it's really hard just to get your brownie to 10,000.
00:25:02
Speaker
But once we get Quinn in there, we'll dial down the difficulty a little bit and give you a chance.
00:25:07
Speaker
Yeah, I think I got to level four, which is four balls.
00:25:11
Speaker
And every time you drain, you lose health.
00:25:13
Speaker
Yeah.
00:25:13
Speaker
Yeah, and I think I was only at like 3,500 or 4,000 on bounty.
00:25:17
Speaker
I was like, how are you going to do this at like six balls?
00:25:20
Speaker
It's like impossible.
00:25:23
Speaker
Well, one of the, you know,
00:25:26
Speaker
One of the key things is knowing when you have to panic and when you have time.
00:25:30
Speaker
So you have to reach a certain amount of kills before the bounty hunters are triggered.
00:25:35
Speaker
So it'll tell you, it'll say bounty and you'll see a little number there.
00:25:39
Speaker
That's how many more people you can kill before the bounty hunters start
Strategy Tips
00:25:43
Speaker
coming after you.
00:25:43
Speaker
So you can actually play a little bit strategic, like if it's a two ball, multi ball, you can trap up.
00:25:47
Speaker
You're not in any hurry at this point.
00:25:49
Speaker
And you can hit the chum bucket to add beachgoers.
00:25:52
Speaker
If you hit the ramp on the upper playfield, that maxes out all the beaches for all beachgoers.
00:25:56
Speaker
So that's something you really want to do.
00:25:59
Speaker
And then once you have everything set up, then you can start shooting shots and just chomping away.
00:26:02
Speaker
And then that'll get you a lot of kills and get your bounty up really fast.
00:26:08
Speaker
How do you get health back?
00:26:09
Speaker
Because I was noticing like you obviously you take damage and stuff.
00:26:14
Speaker
The things that give health back are the... If he rolls over the mini flipper lane and you shoot the harpoon gate, that gives you health back.
00:26:20
Speaker
If you destroy any type of boat, that'll give you health back.
00:26:23
Speaker
And if you graduate to the next level of shark, you get all your health back.
00:26:27
Speaker
Okay.
00:26:28
Speaker
And also the real unimperplate field, that'll give you some health back.
00:26:32
Speaker
Okay.
00:26:33
Speaker
Yeah, this game... To get rid of barrels, you have to kill the bounty hunters.
00:26:39
Speaker
And we might have power-ups do it, too.
00:26:42
Speaker
We'll see.
00:26:42
Speaker
Okay.
00:26:43
Speaker
This game, if you guys haven't tried this yet, seriously, if you don't own a Jaws, get out there, play it at an arcade, just get linked up with it, because this is a really, really fun mode.
00:26:55
Speaker
It's all I'm playing on Jaws right now is this mode.
00:26:57
Speaker
It's insanely cool.
00:26:59
Speaker
Yeah, it's weird to play the normal game.
00:27:00
Speaker
I'm like, oh, I don't really use the action button.
00:27:02
Speaker
Yeah.
00:27:03
Speaker
Can you get beyond six balls?
00:27:07
Speaker
Six is how many are in the game?
00:27:08
Speaker
Yeah.
00:27:09
Speaker
So anything past stage six will still be six balls.
00:27:12
Speaker
Okay.
00:27:12
Speaker
But you should
00:27:15
Speaker
I think even now, I think the match you can get to is stage 7 without reaching 10,000 bounties.
00:27:21
Speaker
When Quint does get in the game, that's where you'll be at.
00:27:25
Speaker
The Pro and the Premium both have 6 balls?
00:27:29
Speaker
Yeah.
00:27:30
Speaker
The only thing you're missing on the Pro is it's probably a little bit harder to light the power up because the drops you can sweep.
00:27:39
Speaker
In the upper playfield, you can't do the power blow to the bounty hunter, so if
00:27:43
Speaker
During the bounty phase, if you shoot the ramp on the upper play field, it'll take the bounty hunter down to 1% no matter where he is.
00:27:47
Speaker
And the real...
00:27:51
Speaker
will heal you during the main play.
00:27:52
Speaker
So you're missing out on a couple features.
00:27:55
Speaker
The radio target and the life ring target will also add to your kill streak multiplier, which is, you know, to reach each kill you make without draining, we'll keep building that multiplier.
00:28:06
Speaker
So it's everyone you eat is, I think it's 250 points times the multiplier.
00:28:11
Speaker
So you can get that up to like 20 or 30.
00:28:13
Speaker
You can get some crazy values out of there.
00:28:17
Speaker
So are you going to stick a timer in this mode?
00:28:18
Speaker
So that way Carl D'Angelo can do like a,
00:28:21
Speaker
another pin quest or whatever he calls it.
00:28:23
Speaker
And, uh, and we, we can all attack this challenge and see who can do it the fastest.
00:28:28
Speaker
Yeah.
00:28:30
Speaker
Oh yeah, we could, uh, there's no timers in it now.
00:28:34
Speaker
Uh, just like there's a timer that kicks in when you've, you know, when you attract a bounty hunter,
00:28:39
Speaker
Yeah.
00:28:39
Speaker
But you can take your time to be in any stage.
00:28:42
Speaker
Obviously, ball one, there's only one ball in play.
00:28:43
Speaker
You can really set up.
00:28:45
Speaker
You know, you get the chum bucket.
00:28:46
Speaker
You can light up all the beach goers.
00:28:48
Speaker
Kind of set yourself up.
00:28:50
Speaker
But once you get two balls in play, that's a lot harder to do.
Beta Testing Feedback
00:28:55
Speaker
I agree.
00:28:55
Speaker
I just, I really liked how Carl was doing.
00:28:57
Speaker
Like we did, what was Avengers?
00:28:58
Speaker
It was a Black Order multi-ball.
00:29:00
Speaker
And it was whoever could complete it the fastest or the least amount of shots or whatever it was.
00:29:05
Speaker
So, yeah.
00:29:07
Speaker
I always like those little concepts that he's been doing with these.
00:29:12
Speaker
You could do a limited number of flips like you did on Avengers 2.
00:29:15
Speaker
So you only have a hundred flips.
00:29:20
Speaker
Really hard not to do that in this game because I've done it two games in a row and I was like, I don't want to do a third game in a row.
00:29:27
Speaker
Of course, as soon as you release this code, Carl's messaging me, hey, I can't get to Quinn.
00:29:30
Speaker
You're like, man, you got there already?
00:29:34
Speaker
I thought I made it hard enough that, you know, mortals wouldn't be able to easily get there, but, uh, well, there he is.
00:29:41
Speaker
Carl's in more than mortal.
00:29:44
Speaker
Yeah.
00:29:45
Speaker
So good crime.
00:29:47
Speaker
If, if everyone's going to do it, it's going to be Carl.
00:29:49
Speaker
Yeah, of course.
00:29:50
Speaker
Yeah.
00:29:50
Speaker
Don't worry.
00:29:51
Speaker
It'll be in, it'll be in.
00:29:55
Speaker
He's like, I'm, I'm bored.
00:29:56
Speaker
I've already beat the main game multiple times and now I've beat the side side mode.
00:29:59
Speaker
I need you to put more in.
00:30:00
Speaker
Yeah.
00:30:01
Speaker
So we're making a chain, a couple of changes.
00:30:03
Speaker
Um,
00:30:04
Speaker
So right now, Shark Alley, we call it the little bonus game you play after every even level.
00:30:10
Speaker
It seemed a little easy, so we changed a couple of cards.
00:30:14
Speaker
So we put like bathing suits on sharks and shark pins on bathers just to throw people off a little bit.
00:30:22
Speaker
You know, honestly, the thing, what I look for is if the legs are dangling down, because obviously sharks aren't going to have those.
00:30:29
Speaker
So maybe if you have like a swimmer more plateaued than sitting.
00:30:32
Speaker
Yeah, we're working on it.
00:30:34
Speaker
Like, you know, the shark fin hoax swimmer, we put that in there.
00:30:37
Speaker
Okay.
00:30:38
Speaker
Just so if you see the fin and you hit that, oh, no, that's not a shark.
00:30:42
Speaker
Yeah, we're just trying to mess with people because, you know, this mode is goofy, stupid.
00:30:47
Speaker
It's just what it is.
00:30:48
Speaker
The first time.
00:30:49
Speaker
Yeah, the first time I was like, 6 out of 10, I really messed up.
00:30:51
Speaker
But the second time, I had it down pat.
00:30:53
Speaker
So, yeah, you're going to have to mess with us.
00:30:56
Speaker
Yeah, we're going to boost the difficulty every time you play it, too.
00:30:59
Speaker
So, like, the first time, it's going to stay the same.
00:31:01
Speaker
But then that timer is going to reduce 100 milliseconds.
00:31:03
Speaker
So, you have almost no time to pick it out.
00:31:06
Speaker
So, that'll be tough.
00:31:09
Speaker
Well, it's definitely awesome.
00:31:12
Speaker
I love this concept.
00:31:13
Speaker
I want to see more of this going forward.
00:31:14
Speaker
This is just, I think this is, it's perfect.
00:31:17
Speaker
And I love that you did the 8-bit.
00:31:19
Speaker
I know that like in Foo Fighters, there was the bot frenzy, which is 8-bit.
00:31:24
Speaker
That was amazing.
00:31:26
Speaker
I think people are craving 8-bit and maybe, I don't know, that's just me, but I'm really, I'm here for it and it's amazing.
00:31:34
Speaker
I love it.
00:31:34
Speaker
What people don't realize it's a lot of work to make something look 8-bit.
00:31:39
Speaker
I kind of helped with the art of animations on this.
00:31:43
Speaker
And those guys gave me a bunch of artwork and I animated a lot of it, but there's some things I had to create myself.
00:31:48
Speaker
And it's just like, man, this is a pain trying to go into Photoshop.
00:31:51
Speaker
Okay, now make this look crappy.
00:31:54
Speaker
It's a lot of work.
00:31:55
Speaker
I had a special pixel brush I had to make.
00:31:58
Speaker
It's so much more work than people probably realize.
00:32:02
Speaker
And then...
00:32:03
Speaker
Some of the stuff I said is after effects.
00:32:05
Speaker
I just gave Rick individual frames as PNG files.
00:32:09
Speaker
That way it's really choppy.
00:32:10
Speaker
It looks something you would see like 8-bit.
00:32:14
Speaker
Here's a little pop-up window with a crappy animation of a guy slam dunking.
00:32:18
Speaker
That was kind of our baseline to how this was done.
00:32:21
Speaker
Or like you said, Punch-Out.
00:32:22
Speaker
I think it's just two frames they play over and over.
00:32:24
Speaker
It's just like, yeah, this is an 8-bit animation.
00:32:27
Speaker
It looks terrible, but people love it.
00:32:29
Speaker
I love it.
00:32:29
Speaker
It's very sentimental.
00:32:33
Speaker
So I don't know if you can confirm or deny, but the ape animation of you at the very end, you're wearing a hat.
00:32:38
Speaker
Is that a Stern Jamal hat or is that a loser kid hat?
00:32:44
Speaker
I don't even know who made that or why.
00:32:45
Speaker
It's an awesome hat.
00:32:46
Speaker
I will say that.
00:32:47
Speaker
It looks, whatever it is, it is great.
00:32:49
Speaker
It looks great.
00:32:49
Speaker
Fantastic.
00:32:50
Speaker
I guess one of the artists just grabbed something from Facebook.
00:32:52
Speaker
I don't know.
00:32:53
Speaker
The first time I saw that, I was like, huh.
00:32:56
Speaker
Joel's like, it's Loser Kid.
00:32:57
Speaker
I'm like, I don't know.
00:32:58
Speaker
It's a little.
00:32:59
Speaker
It might be.
00:32:59
Speaker
You know what?
00:33:00
Speaker
I'm just going to go with it.
00:33:01
Speaker
I'm just going to go with it.
00:33:02
Speaker
We're claiming it.
00:33:03
Speaker
Yeah.
00:33:03
Speaker
Yeah.
00:33:03
Speaker
See, I wore the white one today for you.
00:33:05
Speaker
Perfect.
00:33:06
Speaker
Yeah.
00:33:06
Speaker
That's a good looking one.
00:33:07
Speaker
So we joked one time that – so Bond, Gomez's Bond, you know, the drop targets in front, how they have the little like Japanese symbol or whatever it is.
00:33:16
Speaker
With the line through it.
00:33:17
Speaker
Yeah.
00:33:17
Speaker
We drew a line through it and there are little eyes and stuff.
00:33:19
Speaker
We're like, look, Loser Kid's on Bond.
00:33:20
Speaker
Loser Kid.
00:33:21
Speaker
People still come up to us like, we can't believe they put you in bond.
00:33:24
Speaker
I was like, yeah, yeah.
00:33:25
Speaker
The licensor made an exception for us.
00:33:28
Speaker
Yes, just for us.
00:33:29
Speaker
Those guys are awesome.
00:33:31
Speaker
Yes, we heard all about that.
00:33:33
Speaker
The licensors were very forthcoming with all of their products.
00:33:38
Speaker
Oh, ninja shoes.
00:33:40
Speaker
That's all I can think of now.
00:33:41
Speaker
No, it's ninja booties.
00:33:43
Speaker
Ninja booties.
00:33:44
Speaker
Ninja booties.
00:33:45
Speaker
Booty, booty, booty.
00:33:46
Speaker
All right, Keith, we have you on.
00:33:50
Speaker
I've got to ask because we're probably about midway to your next game, I assume.
00:33:54
Speaker
Are we going to see your next game in 2025?
00:33:56
Speaker
I can either confirm nor deny that.
00:34:01
Speaker
Okay.
00:34:03
Speaker
Okay.
00:34:03
Speaker
But it will be coming out.
00:34:05
Speaker
So, okay.
00:34:05
Speaker
Okay.
00:34:06
Speaker
I have another game.
00:34:07
Speaker
Yes.
00:34:07
Speaker
Okay.
00:34:08
Speaker
You have, you have been teasing.
00:34:10
Speaker
I'm pretty sure that it has at least more than one flipper.
00:34:15
Speaker
So now it's one footer.
00:34:17
Speaker
Actually it's one foot.
00:34:18
Speaker
Wow.
00:34:19
Speaker
Yeah.
00:34:21
Speaker
Screw Italian bottom.
00:34:22
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:34:22
Speaker
Yeah.
00:34:22
Speaker
Yeah.
00:34:27
Speaker
Okay, that would be a challenge, actually.
00:34:29
Speaker
A one-flipper game.
00:34:31
Speaker
It's all action buttons.
00:34:32
Speaker
I know at least one one-flipper game.
00:34:35
Speaker
It was an old EM.
00:34:36
Speaker
There was one flipper on the right side.
00:34:38
Speaker
The other side was a pop bumper or something.
00:34:39
Speaker
I was like, wow, this is weird.
00:34:42
Speaker
And both flipper buttons activated the same flipper.
00:34:45
Speaker
That would certainly be interesting.
00:34:47
Speaker
That is weird.
00:34:50
Speaker
Can we ask how many flippers are going to be on your next game?
00:34:54
Speaker
You can ask.
00:34:56
Speaker
Four.
00:34:57
Speaker
Four.
00:34:58
Speaker
Okay.
00:34:58
Speaker
Nice.
00:35:00
Speaker
I'm a big fan of multi-flipper games.
00:35:02
Speaker
Same.
00:35:03
Speaker
Well, I think some of your best games have had four flippers.
00:35:05
Speaker
Well, I guess Godzilla's the king, so, I mean, that's why I had three flippers.
00:35:10
Speaker
I got Iron Maiden over my shoulder here, so.
00:35:13
Speaker
Yeah.
00:35:13
Speaker
I will say this is probably my favorite layout, so.
00:35:19
Speaker
Nice.
00:35:19
Speaker
Really?
00:35:20
Speaker
Stay tuned.
00:35:21
Speaker
Okay.
00:35:21
Speaker
Okay.
00:35:22
Speaker
Okay.
00:35:23
Speaker
What's your favorite released layout so far?
00:35:26
Speaker
Avengers.
00:35:28
Speaker
Avengers?
00:35:28
Speaker
Okay.
00:35:30
Speaker
That is a great layout.
00:35:31
Speaker
It flows beautifully.
00:35:33
Speaker
I think that game is very underrated.
00:35:35
Speaker
I think it has the longest ball paths.
00:35:37
Speaker
Like legitimately.
00:35:38
Speaker
Like the way the balls just circle around and it gives that feeling of motion.
00:35:46
Speaker
But it doesn't feel too frenetic.
00:35:48
Speaker
Like you can still hit shots, but the ball has definitely...
00:35:55
Speaker
I would say unique ball paths which have not been on any game.
00:35:59
Speaker
So I, yeah, I. And Bond 60, I designed a game in like two weeks and it's one of my favorite shooting games too.
00:36:07
Speaker
Yeah.
00:36:07
Speaker
I think, I think when I, I guess the crunch, it seems to be, you know, I don't overthink things.
00:36:13
Speaker
I was like, I, you know, this needs to work first time.
00:36:16
Speaker
And both those games didn't really get much revision from the initial Whitewood.
00:36:21
Speaker
And Bond 60th is great.
00:36:23
Speaker
Actually, the first time I played it was when we came up there in May for the media thing.
00:36:26
Speaker
And that was, it really is a great game.
00:36:29
Speaker
Thanks.
00:36:30
Speaker
I mean, obviously, softer and everything.
00:36:33
Speaker
But I just kind of, you know, I know George was getting crushed with, you know, getting his Cornerstone game out.
00:36:41
Speaker
And he's like, oh, yeah, we're going to do a simple single level play field.
00:36:47
Speaker
And I was like, hey, if you need help, you know, I'll do it for you.
00:36:50
Speaker
And then, uh, yeah, a couple of weeks later, he's like, you know what?
00:36:53
Speaker
It's yours.
00:36:54
Speaker
So, uh, kind of pause what I was doing and, um, you know, knock that out.
00:36:59
Speaker
And that the first whitewood, you know, we shot, I was like, wow, hardly anything needs to change on this.
00:37:04
Speaker
So, uh, I got lucky.
00:37:05
Speaker
Uh, don't, that doesn't happen too often when you make a whitewood and every, every shot is just does exactly what you think it does.
00:37:13
Speaker
Cause it's usually, you know, I got to move this, I'm going to move that change this angle, change that angle, realign the flippers.
00:37:21
Speaker
So it kind of worked out, thank goodness, because I didn't have a whole lot of time to do it.
00:37:27
Speaker
When you're designing a game, shots are different if you trap up or you're hitting them at velocity, if it's coming down.
00:37:38
Speaker
So how do you adjust for that?
00:37:39
Speaker
And do you intentionally say, well, this shot here, you probably really need to trap up versus, no, this one, you really need to have some ball speed so you can hit that angle.
00:37:50
Speaker
Well, so if you notice in JAWS, I have the ramp feeds feeding really close to the flipper.
00:37:54
Speaker
And that's one of the reasons because I didn't want the ball flying down the in lane because then that, you know, trying to shoot the ball at the middle off of that is going to be almost impossible.
00:38:03
Speaker
So I do the late in lane feeds.
00:38:07
Speaker
Angle the flipper, the flipper angles higher, the resting position angle is a little higher.
00:38:12
Speaker
Uh, jaws is the highest angled one I've done.
00:38:14
Speaker
So that should be friendly towards the middle of the play field and make kind of the edge shots a little harder, but there are no real edge shots and jaws like the Rosanna iron maiden or a Jurassic park.
00:38:27
Speaker
Hmm.
00:38:30
Speaker
I do notice that just the way the flippers are positioned, it certainly affects the game.
Flipper Alignment and Gameplay
00:38:35
Speaker
I'm actually one of the few people who have not adjusted my Attack from Mars flippers.
00:38:40
Speaker
So it's right next to Medieval Madness.
00:38:43
Speaker
So, you know, it's a very similar shot profile.
00:38:45
Speaker
However, when you jump from one to another, if you have the drop flippers, which Attack from Mars does have, it really does mess with your timing and your mind, unless you're a much better player than I am anyway.
00:38:57
Speaker
Yeah, that drives me crazy if I go to a tournament and play a game that's supposed to have dropped flippers and they align it with the inline because Steve Ritchie told him to.
00:39:07
Speaker
That was the funniest thing I ever I do some tournament I played and I was like, well, Steve Ritchie said all his flippers are aligned.
00:39:13
Speaker
It's like, yeah, that's Steve.
00:39:14
Speaker
But it depends on, you know, the game designer trust us, each one of us.
00:39:20
Speaker
you know, goes through and figures out what angle to put those at a default before we ship.
00:39:26
Speaker
If you move them up, it really, it really does script a lot of stuff.
00:39:29
Speaker
Like if you drop the flippers on jaws, good luck shooting, you know, anything up the middle.
00:39:33
Speaker
Yeah.
00:39:36
Speaker
So I have one question.
00:39:36
Speaker
I don't know if you can confirm or deny this one either.
00:39:39
Speaker
One of these again.
00:39:40
Speaker
Yes.
00:39:41
Speaker
One of these again.
Hints at Next Pinball Game
00:39:42
Speaker
Okay.
00:39:43
Speaker
Gomez has named you king of the monsters since the licenses you've been dealt.
00:39:47
Speaker
I'll deal with monsters, or the vast majority of them.
00:39:49
Speaker
Will your next game stay in that lane, or are you going to stray to new territory?
00:39:54
Speaker
Both.
00:39:56
Speaker
Ooh.
00:39:58
Speaker
All right.
00:39:59
Speaker
That's a good tidbit.
00:40:00
Speaker
It's a hybrid.
00:40:03
Speaker
It's E.T., everyone.
00:40:04
Speaker
It's E.T.
00:40:07
Speaker
Okay, ET, okay, seriously?
00:40:09
Speaker
Just Google all the crap they sold for ET.
00:40:12
Speaker
There's zero chance they would be selling any of that now.
00:40:15
Speaker
I could not, like, all the, let's just say there's a lot of very interesting looking swag that people bought that were ET related that I'm like, I don't know if, I think someone would crusade against that nowadays.
00:40:29
Speaker
Has anyone caught ET in, when he plays the shark?
00:40:35
Speaker
Oh.
00:40:35
Speaker
I didn't know you could.
00:40:36
Speaker
Man, I have to look for that.
00:40:41
Speaker
That's awesome.
00:40:43
Speaker
What would be great is if E.T.
00:40:45
Speaker
were in the basket and riding in front of the moon and the shark jumped up and grabbed him and just made him disappear.
00:40:52
Speaker
That'd be awesome.
00:40:53
Speaker
Yeah.
00:40:54
Speaker
I should say there's an E.T.
00:40:55
Speaker
Easter egg in there somewhere.
00:40:57
Speaker
Okay.
00:40:58
Speaker
There's also E.T.
00:40:59
Speaker
in whatever, which one of the Star Wars when they're at the Senate.
00:41:03
Speaker
Did you guys realize that?
00:41:04
Speaker
There's like an Easter egg in the Galactic Center.
00:41:06
Speaker
There's like a whole bunch of E.T.
00:41:08
Speaker
's down there.
00:41:09
Speaker
Yeah.
00:41:11
Speaker
Yeah.
00:41:11
Speaker
They're from one of the galaxies or whatever.
00:41:14
Speaker
Yeah.
00:41:15
Speaker
I wouldn't be surprised.
00:41:16
Speaker
Go ahead.
00:41:18
Speaker
I was just saying I wouldn't be surprised if it's like when like Mark Silk is talking like his little dude because it shows a whole bunch of different alien races there.
00:41:28
Speaker
I don't know if that movie holds up.
00:41:30
Speaker
I haven't seen it in so long.
00:41:32
Speaker
E.T.?
00:41:33
Speaker
Yeah.
00:41:34
Speaker
I don't think it does.
00:41:36
Speaker
I think I remember more from Mac and me than I do E.T.
00:41:41
Speaker
I remember seeing it.
00:41:43
Speaker
I remember seeing it as a kid and the first time you see it, you know, everybody, you know, everybody's emotional and it's really a thing.
00:41:48
Speaker
And I think they re-released it a year later.
00:41:51
Speaker
And so I was a year older and we went and we're like, oh, we want to see it.
00:41:54
Speaker
And I didn't, it didn't hit at all.
00:41:58
Speaker
Like everybody in the audience was like, okay, well that happened because back in the eighties when we didn't have a VHS, uh, you know, cause everything was so expensive back in the eighties, you'd buy a movie for like 70 bucks, which if you consider that was like 300 bucks.
00:42:12
Speaker
So that's why everyone like recorded, uh, had a whole bunch of pirated, uh, recordings of, of movies, but, um, they would do these things.
00:42:23
Speaker
They would re like, I think star Wars was re-released into the theaters like six times.
00:42:28
Speaker
And of course we went every time, but that was just, it's, it's really interesting growing up now versus then that kids don't understand.
00:42:36
Speaker
Kids do not get that.
00:42:37
Speaker
The, the amount of depravity that we had to, to suffer through a lot of boredom.
00:42:43
Speaker
Kids aren't bored now.
00:42:44
Speaker
My kids have never been bored in their life, but I think, I think most of my childhood was boredom.
00:42:50
Speaker
But you know what?
00:42:51
Speaker
When I was a kid, I would take hammer nails, rubber bands and go make a play film.
00:42:55
Speaker
And that's, you know,
00:42:57
Speaker
My childhood was spent either building things or tearing things apart to see how they worked.
00:43:01
Speaker
Nice.
00:43:02
Speaker
And everything was put together with like a Phillips head screwdriver.
00:43:05
Speaker
So I think every toy that I ever had, I took apart and saw how it worked and then put it back together.
00:43:10
Speaker
And there was usually some extra pieces that I never figured out where they were.
00:43:13
Speaker
Just like when you shop a game at it.
00:43:15
Speaker
All these extra pieces.
00:43:16
Speaker
Yeah.
00:43:22
Speaker
Well, awesome, Keith.
00:43:22
Speaker
We appreciate you coming on.
00:43:24
Speaker
Scott, do you have any other questions before we let Keith go?
00:43:27
Speaker
Let's see.
00:43:30
Speaker
Let me think about that because we did go through most of our questions.
00:43:34
Speaker
Yeah, we went through all of our questions.
00:43:35
Speaker
Okay.
00:43:37
Speaker
I do want to know what is the hardest shot on any of your games for you to hit?
00:43:46
Speaker
The M target on Bond 60s.
00:43:49
Speaker
Oh, okay.
00:43:50
Speaker
Yeah, no, that's a, that actually is, it's one of those high, like it's a time shot.
00:43:57
Speaker
And so you, you have to hit it at the right time.
00:43:59
Speaker
So you can't just take a whole bunch of shots.
00:44:00
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:44:03
Speaker
To further illustrate my point of flipper alignment.
00:44:06
Speaker
I think that shot's at the exact same position as the, the far right ramp on Jurassic park.
00:44:13
Speaker
But since these flippers are aligned much higher, that shot becomes way harder.
00:44:17
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
00:44:19
Speaker
But yeah, that's what I wanted.
00:44:21
Speaker
I wanted to show you're not going to shoot very, very often.
00:44:23
Speaker
But when you do it, it's, you know, it's worth 3000 points or whatever.
00:44:26
Speaker
Yep.
00:44:27
Speaker
Yeah.
00:44:28
Speaker
Okay.
00:44:28
Speaker
Hardest shot.
00:44:29
Speaker
Now I want to know the, the shock that you love hitting the most.
00:44:36
Speaker
It's gotta be the, uh, Oh, shot on the Jurassic park.
00:44:39
Speaker
Cause it's so hard, but when you hit it, it's just so satisfying.
00:44:45
Speaker
I would argue the smart missile too, because I get that about every, you know, every three, three out of 20 times.
00:44:52
Speaker
But when you hit it, you, you feel like an, you know, the amazing player there.
00:44:56
Speaker
That's one of those shots where you look at it.
00:44:58
Speaker
That's not possible.
00:44:59
Speaker
That's not possible.
00:45:00
Speaker
And then you hit it.
00:45:01
Speaker
Huh?
00:45:02
Speaker
Yeah.
00:45:02
Speaker
How'd that work?
00:45:03
Speaker
Yeah.
00:45:04
Speaker
That shouldn't work.
00:45:06
Speaker
Yeah.
00:45:07
Speaker
Yeah.
00:45:07
Speaker
Um, but yeah, there's great rewards to that.
00:45:10
Speaker
So nice.
00:45:13
Speaker
All right.
00:45:15
Speaker
Cool.
00:45:15
Speaker
That's great.
00:45:16
Speaker
Thanks again for coming on.
00:45:16
Speaker
That was awesome.
00:45:18
Speaker
Always fun hearing...
00:45:20
Speaker
hearing the behind the scenes.
00:45:21
Speaker
And also I do love just the little ways you guys at Stern are implementing playing games.
00:45:27
Speaker
And so there are different ways of doing things and it's, it's kind of like a party mode, you know, it's like, Hey, come over and play pinball as opposed to watch me play a game for 30 minutes.
00:45:36
Speaker
It's like, Hey, we got three minutes each.
00:45:38
Speaker
My, my party game is a Beatles because it's so hard.
00:45:43
Speaker
Like, like it's, it's like, okay, we we've been playing these games.
00:45:46
Speaker
Now we're going to finish up on Beatles cause we just get crushed.
00:45:50
Speaker
So you can see behind me all the games that are in my office, all these classics.
00:45:57
Speaker
5.30, 6 o'clock when everyone's done working, they all come here and they all play these old games because, you know, you can play together, play quick, you're done, you're in and out.
00:46:06
Speaker
So, yeah, there's something if we can bring back together playing, you know, playing as a group.
00:46:12
Speaker
playing as friends, playing against your friends, you know, just social game of pinball that we all remember from back then.
00:46:19
Speaker
I think it's important to try to bring that back.
Zelda's Influence on Design
00:46:22
Speaker
And I think you should do a Contra pinball machine where you go through each of the releases, like the original, the super Contra, Contra three.
00:46:30
Speaker
And yeah.
00:46:31
Speaker
I mean, does Mode 7 effects from back then?
00:46:33
Speaker
Yeah.
00:46:34
Speaker
That game was awesome.
00:46:36
Speaker
I got to know then.
00:46:38
Speaker
If Stern got a Legend of Zelda license, would you fight for that license?
00:46:43
Speaker
Or do you think someone else would be more inclined to do it at Stern?
00:46:46
Speaker
I love Zelda.
00:46:48
Speaker
I think I've played pretty much all of them that weren't just exclusive on Game Boy or...
00:46:55
Speaker
Some of those mid-releases in the early 2000s, late 90s.
00:46:58
Speaker
But yeah, pretty much every major Zelda game I've played through.
00:47:02
Speaker
I did all the early ones.
00:47:03
Speaker
Once they got to where my son, he plays, he's gone through Breath of the Wild so many times and Tears of the Kingdom.
00:47:11
Speaker
But he's like, hey, dad, you need to play this.
00:47:12
Speaker
And so I spend like two hours figuring out, okay, this is what I do.
00:47:16
Speaker
And then I get busy for like two weeks and I get back on and I realize there needs to be like a reorientation mode when you get back on a game to say, okay, this is how you play it again.
00:47:28
Speaker
It's been a while.
00:47:29
Speaker
Yeah.
00:47:29
Speaker
You want a refresher?
00:47:31
Speaker
Hey, you're hitting the wrong buttons.
00:47:32
Speaker
Would you like to go through the orientation again?
00:47:36
Speaker
I mean, that's a beauty when you walk up to Frogger or something.
00:47:38
Speaker
You don't have to remember where you left.
00:47:39
Speaker
Yeah.
00:47:39
Speaker
No, no, no.
00:47:41
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:47:41
Speaker
Yep.
00:47:42
Speaker
Yep.
00:47:42
Speaker
Yep.
00:47:44
Speaker
Well, awesome.
00:47:44
Speaker
Thank you, Keith, for coming on.
00:47:46
Speaker
Before we wrap this up, if you love pinball and you love Nintendo like us, check out my shirt.
00:47:53
Speaker
Pinball.
00:47:54
Speaker
It says pinball and it's in the old retro NES font.
00:47:58
Speaker
You can get this at silverballswag.com right now, along with our Loser Kids swag, besides the hats.
00:48:03
Speaker
If you want a hat, I have posted it on Facebook.
00:48:05
Speaker
We're going to be doing a run here soon because Expo is a month away, a month and a half away.
00:48:11
Speaker
So if you want a Loser Kid hat, go on Facebook, Instagram, whatever your favorite social is, and you can sign up there so we can get you a hat.
00:48:19
Speaker
um oh get the jersey the jersey is awesome the hockey jersey looks good i i can't wait for my hockey jersey to show up um last but not least we have content creator of the episode we want to shout out wormhole pinball if you haven't been checking out their stuff they're doing great jobs with the interviews and kind of showcasing what the uh what pinball has to offer and they're doing on youtube so give that give that a check so
00:48:42
Speaker
Scott, you got anything for us before I do our whole spiel?
00:48:44
Speaker
You know, I'm really excited for Expo.
00:48:46
Speaker
So please, if you guys are interested, go and sign up for Expo.
00:48:50
Speaker
I'm still trying to get time off, but I know Josh is going to be there and I'm pretty sure Keith is going to be there.
00:48:55
Speaker
So I'll be there.
00:48:56
Speaker
You're going to, you have to challenge him to a bond 60th game and see if you can beat him.
00:49:02
Speaker
I love that.
00:49:02
Speaker
So fun.
00:49:03
Speaker
I want to play a game, man.
00:49:04
Speaker
He would have to play one armed.
00:49:06
Speaker
There's no way.
00:49:07
Speaker
All right.
00:49:08
Speaker
Deal.
00:49:09
Speaker
One arm challenge.
00:49:10
Speaker
Deal.
00:49:10
Speaker
Deal.
00:49:11
Speaker
If you can beat Keith at a one-arm challenge of Bond 68th, we will get you a hat.
00:49:17
Speaker
How about that?
00:49:17
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:49:20
Speaker
The winner.
00:49:20
Speaker
We might be.
00:49:21
Speaker
Yes.
00:49:21
Speaker
Yes.
00:49:21
Speaker
Keith might not show up to Expo after the second day.
00:49:26
Speaker
I love, I freaking love that game.
00:49:28
Speaker
I'll play it all day long.
00:49:31
Speaker
If you want to get a hold of us, we are loser kid pinball podcast at gmail.com.
00:49:34
Speaker
You can also get a hold of us on all the socials, all at loser kid pinball.
00:49:37
Speaker
If you want some of our swag, like I said, loser kid pinball, uh, sorry, silver ball, swag, swag slash loser kid.
00:49:43
Speaker
And you know, all this shenanigans.
00:49:45
Speaker
If you want to watch us on YouTube, we're on YouTube now with Scott and I got new cameras.
00:49:49
Speaker
So we look a little, we don't look prettier, but we, you can see more definition.
00:49:53
Speaker
Our ugliness is in high def now.
00:49:54
Speaker
Yes, yes it is.
00:49:56
Speaker
So, all right.
00:49:57
Speaker
See you maybe next week.
00:49:59
Speaker
See you in one or two weeks.
00:50:09
Speaker
Thank you.