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Cats, Comedy and Caring: A Conversation with Comedian Liz Miele
98 Plays4 years ago
Fara, Liz and Grant discuss relationships, hardship, and the crucial role of humour and empathy in overcoming challenges on the path to healing.
Find Liz here:
https://lizmiele.com
https://www.instagram.com/lizmiele/
https://www.youtube.com/user/LizMiele
https://twitter.com/lizmiele
https://www.facebook.com/lizmielecomedy
Guardian Article referenced by Liz:
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2021/may/24/research-reveals-why-some-find-the-sound-of-others-eating-so-irritating
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Transcript
24/7 Accessibility Pressure
00:00:05
Speaker
social media and the internet is telling you, you need to be accessible 24 seven. And that's what's driving people crazy.
Introduction to Doorknob Comments
00:00:15
Speaker
Hi, thanks for listening to doorknob comments. I'm Farrah White and I'm Grant Brenner. We are psychiatrists on a mission to educate and advocate for mental health and overall wellbeing.
00:00:25
Speaker
In addition to the obvious, we focus on the subtle, often unspoken dimensions of human experience, the so-called doorknob comments people often make just as they are leaving their therapist's office. We seek to dispel misconceptions while offering useful perspectives through open and honest conversation. We hope you enjoy our podcast. Please feel free to reach out to us with questions, comments, and requests.
Liz Mealy's Therapeutic Comedy
00:00:49
Speaker
Hi, I'm Farah White here with Grant Brenner and our guest stand-up comedian and writer, Liz Mealy. Thank you so much for joining us today. Yeah, thanks for having me. We're so excited when we reached out and you joined us because I'm a huge admirer of your comedy and it's also very psychological, yeah.
00:01:07
Speaker
It's kind of my dream, honestly, if I'm being honest. Like my therapist actually saw, we don't even know if it's okay that she saw me, but I had told her I've written jokes about her and then her and her husband were in Paris of all places and I was performing there and she's like, can I come? And I was like, sure. I was like, I don't know. I was like, we're also in Paris at the same time. It's so weird. But anytime any kind of psychologist, therapist, anybody says they like my work, I'm like, I'm growing.
00:01:32
Speaker
I'm connecting. I'm getting better as a human. So, and I actually, my therapist has helped me immensely. So I give her 10% credit, even though she really deserves 90% credit. That's nice. She must've really liked the show. Did you guys talk about it afterwards? Um, I think we talked about it like, cause I, I probably only talked to her at this point like once a month and she was also on vacation. I was very honored. Um, and I was in the middle of a tour and then I was actually right
Tour Disruption by Pandemic
00:01:57
Speaker
It was February of 2020, and then I got, my whole European tour got shut down in the middle of it. I was the real victim of 2020. Nobody talks about it. But genuinely, I've written jokes about her, and I always tell her, because I think that's the respectful thing to
Using Personal Stories in Comedy
00:02:11
Speaker
do. But also the reason I think she's been such a good therapist for me is she laughs at my crazy, like, you know, she knows that that's how I want to be talked to. Even like, I remember once early on, she started cursing, and I was like, you don't curse. And she goes, but you do. And it makes you comfortable. I was like, it does.
00:02:26
Speaker
It makes me feel like you get how angry I am. So I think in general, from a respectful point, I always kind of let her know, hey, I've talked about you. And I do that with a lot of like friends and family that are in my acts like, hey, I'm talking about you. If I've crossed the boundary, let me know, because I don't want to hurt you, even though, you know, because like, especially my mom, I'm very honest about my mom.
00:02:45
Speaker
and i'll be like hey this is kind of like about some of the crappy stuff you did as a kid are you okay with it and she's like i'll just pretend i'm it's somebody else i go mom that's okay for a friend but i only have one mom and we have the same face so people are gonna know you hit us like you know what i mean like you gotta you gotta be okay with it and she's like yeah it's fine that's why i'm waiting for my family to die off before i start doing comedy smart that's really the smarter way to do
Freud and Therapists Attending Shows
00:03:09
Speaker
it
00:03:09
Speaker
I think Freud actually talked about therapists going to see their stand-up comedian clients. Yeah. Yeah. Because he had a lot of stand-up comedians, I think, in his practice. And I think he said, as long as the therapist doesn't heckle you or charge you, it's OK.
00:03:23
Speaker
Yeah, I've seen that same document and I felt quite relieved really. It is interesting though because I think there is a part of me that uses a lot of the stuff I read in general.
Dyslexia and Comedy
00:03:35
Speaker
So I don't retain knowledge very well. Like I'm dyslexic and things go in and I feel like I can't regurgitate them back, but clearly they're staying in there because they'll come out in my comedy or like a friend will have a problem and I'll give her advice and I'm like, I sound really smart right now.
00:03:51
Speaker
Like it's in there, but it's like, I don't have the ability to just pull it out at will. Like something has to trigger it. I have to get mad at somebody on the subway and then this like psychological idea will come out and that's how I'll process it. Or a friend will be going through some issue with her roommate and I'll have this thing that I learned from therapy 10 years ago. Like- It's very spontaneous.
00:04:11
Speaker
Yeah and it has to be weirdly like I always say it like it's a filing cabinet but I don't it's not well organized and I can't just like figure it out something has to trigger it and then my brain goes in and goes oh it's right here and pulls it out and that's even how I write jokes which is like I'll have a story I don't know where to put it in a joke so I just kind of put it aside and then something will happen and I'll be like oh that story from three years ago that'll go perfect with this thing that just happened.
Turning Negatives into Positives
00:04:35
Speaker
So I think in general, having anybody in the mental health field like what I do, A, makes me feel better because I think I was lost for quite some time. But it also makes me feel good that even if I'm still a mess, everything I've read and done has had some purpose. All the money I've spent at least is making me money.
00:04:54
Speaker
Well, you're kind of a genius, right, in that ability to pull things together. And your comedy really resonates with our work. You know, a lot of what I've written is about learning to be self-compassionate and to pivot from blame to curiosity. There's a third book that I've co-authored coming out in a couple of months called Making Your Crazy Work For You, from trauma and isolation to self-love and something like that. But Making Your Crazy Work For You, it sounds like you've done that very effectively.
Comedy as Therapy
00:05:24
Speaker
I've always said I've been because you know I'm extremely sensitive that hasn't gone away. I handle it clearly so much better but I always said from it because I started doing stand-up when I was 16 I've always had an advantage over at least other girls and women in my life because comedy was so important to me that when a guy broke up with me when a friend hurt me when I didn't get an opportunity if I could spin it into a joke
00:05:49
Speaker
I could mentally go, well, at least it happened for a reason, or at least I got this bit out of it. And then I think there's some probably psychological brokenness to me repeating stories over and over again, but in repeating the stories over and over again and honing them and then getting the power of them, like getting laughter out of it, being on TV because of it,
00:06:12
Speaker
People coming up to me afterwards saying that they felt the same way or that made them feel less alone or whatever. But all this positivity I get from what was originally negative and I was really upset about it to now it is the reason I'm touring the world. It's the reason I'm on TV. It's the reason I have a fan base. All of a sudden I can not even all of a sudden, even just at a young age before all those things, I can take something negative.
00:06:35
Speaker
and very quickly spin it into a positive the way most people can't because they don't have that outlet. I was gonna say, and in working out the joke, I often heal myself because it might be like I got dumped or this person said something negative to me about me.
00:06:50
Speaker
And in trying to really dissect the joke, I'll be like, actually, I was wrong. Or actually, this was the best thing that could have happened to me. And I forced myself to process feelings that most people wouldn't, because most people are like, I don't want to feel this. I'm going to go drink or eat or sleep with other people. And I'm like, every day,
00:07:07
Speaker
I'm going to say this on stage and I'm going to keep editing it until it makes everybody laugh. And at some point, I get deep into a layer where I find out what is really connecting with people. And I actually connect more with myself than I think most people would after a bad situation. Totally. I think the reflective power and the ability to build insight, you know, when bad things happen, something probably grant you
00:07:31
Speaker
see that just as much where in our work too we I mean look at things and obviously there are tragedies and traumas and horrible things that happen but in processing them we can sometimes see like either the strengths or the hope that is you know underlying all of that the trauma so that's
00:07:50
Speaker
at its best, I think therapy might have a little bit in common with comedy in that way.
Laughter and Healing
00:07:56
Speaker
Well, I think it sounds to me like you're a healer and through healing other people, you found ways to heal yourself. And I think that laughter can be very therapeutic, though obviously it can backfire and you described testing it, but it has such power for dealing with shame and getting up and telling one story
00:08:14
Speaker
really takes the teeth out of shame just by saying it. And then when other people come and say, yeah, that really resonated for me. I'm not alone, et cetera, et cetera. That is very healing. But of course, in trauma therapy, exposure therapy, actually people go through the same things over and over again, and they learn to become desensitized to the excessive emotional response.
00:08:41
Speaker
and put it into meaning, right? Like they make sense out of what happened to them and hopefully turned it into some purpose. I had a rather difficult childhood in a certain number of ways. And I'm sure that's part of not only being a therapist and a writer, but also, you know, my humor, right? You have a podcast, right, called Two Non-Doctors. Yeah.
00:09:05
Speaker
And I listened to some of the episodes and it's very therapeutic.
Male Depression Discussion
00:09:10
Speaker
I listened to one in particular called Sugar Lust. Yeah.
00:09:15
Speaker
I actually would love your opinion we did one called guys wide shut which was actually about male depression. So I read this great book by Terrence real called, I don't want to talk about it and it was specifically about male depression which I, my running joke was like I think I have male depression like I was raised to be a boy like my dad is very much like a 50s man's man.
00:09:36
Speaker
so many things that was wonderful about him and I told stories where like he had three girls I'm one of five so he had three girls and two boys and very much raised us we were tomboys very much in charge of both you know changing diapers for my little siblings but also cutting the the grass and and doing all this other stuff but my dad changed diapers my dad used to carry tampons in his fanny pack when we were on vacation because he had
00:09:57
Speaker
a wife and three girls was never, like I had a joke blow up called feminist sex positions. Was not happy. I started to get all these like feminist panel shows and all this stuff. And I remember hanging out my dad and being like, I have to go, I have to go do this feminist panel. And he goes, you're a feminist. And I was like, yeah. And then he was like, what's a feminist? And I was like, it's just somebody that thinks women should have equal rights to men. And he was like, oh, I'm a feminist.
00:10:19
Speaker
And I was like, yeah, I've known that the whole time, Dad. But in general, that was just about specifically why men are depressed, why men act the way they do. And that was really healing, I think, for both of us as people that have had, I think everybody clearly, especially with all the mass shooters, which I think we can say is notoriously men, but we've had to be in the face of
00:10:39
Speaker
toxic masculinity and really what is male depression and what is affecting our entire community and is unchecked because we put men in this box and women have, you know, and I'm glad women are doing everything that they're doing to feel freer and respected and we still have a long way to go, but there is this, you're a man, shut up. You have all the power, shut up. And I actually don't think that's true. I think men are just as easily put in boxes that are harmful and they don't even know they're in the box. We have taught them to crawl into the box and to regulate other people in that box.
00:11:09
Speaker
and to call them gay and all the other bad things that you can tell them just so they stay in that box. So I've been really proud of it because we're very honest that we are morons. Don't listen to us. We're just two comedians. But I also think there is a freedom that we're able to talk about some really difficult topics.
00:11:26
Speaker
make them funny so that they're more accessible but also be honest about all the growth that we've gone through and we've been friends for over 15 years so the thing about us is that I'll call my friend Maria up crying and or she'll call me upset and then after we're done I'll be like can I tell you what's funny about what you just said because there is something funny about darkness.
Support Through Comedy
00:11:47
Speaker
I always say if I bomb it's because people
00:11:50
Speaker
people are taking what I say too seriously because I tell sad jokes. Like all my jokes stem from this layer of sadness. And then I build humor on top of it. If you're not in that space, it reads sad. Like I've had people be like, aw. And I was like, I don't want an aw. I already got the aw when I called my best friend. I want the ha-has. Like that's what I want now. And does, do a lot of your ideas for episodes come out of like either personal experience or discussions that the two of you have together?
00:12:18
Speaker
We start with that, like our first episode was about misophonia, which is something I diagnosed Maria with, because she was my friend at the time for probably over eight years. Are you a loud chewer? I'm not a loud chewer, but I did like gum and I gave up gum for her. We don't even live in the same country anymore. And I still don't chew gum because she like, I gave it up for her and I just don't do it anymore. It's very kind. She's my favorite person and she was also scary.
00:12:49
Speaker
I just ate an apple with Grant on the phone. Yeah, yeah, that's real friendship. Sorry. But it's something I noticed about her. And so a good friend, you know, I listened, she goes, hey, this really bothered me. And I said, okay. And so I just, but I remember how insecure she felt about little things like having to tell somebody don't chew gum or hey, when you, cause I would play with my hair, especially when my hair's straight, it's so soft. And I just play with my hair a lot. And she literally, literally like a mom would be like, stop.
00:13:16
Speaker
I just, you gotta stop. And, and I was, I would, I would listen, but I'd also, I didn't understand it. And then I found this article about misophonia, printed it out and I was having dinner with her. And I go, I don't want you to be upset, but I think you might have this. And I handed it to her and I watched her read it. And she goes, I always thought I was a freak.
00:13:35
Speaker
She's like, I always thought there was something wrong with me and now I know it's a disorder. And she's like, thank you so much. And now she's like, we probably, we just taped an episode today and we talked about, cause some fans sent us an article about why they think people develop misophonia and why they have the reaction they do. It was actually really fascinating, but she has jokes about it on stage and has had other people with misophonia connect with her. We've had fans from the podcast be like, nobody else talks about this.
00:14:01
Speaker
my husband has been married for me for 20 years. I could never explain it. You guys explained it perfectly. So I just send the podcast to him. So it's also like been a really good vehicle of like, we've discovered so much both in just being people, being comedians, but also because we've been such close friends for so long that like we've, we've learned how to deal with each other's idiosyncrasies and issues and what I'm,
00:14:25
Speaker
I'm a hothead. Like, I go from zero to 60, and she's seen it, and it's not fun, and I don't feel good about it. And she also has seen me unleash on people. And so she knows how to calm me. She also knows when to just let me go. Like, you know, she's also the same person that now she's the barrier. So it used to be me yell at strangers, and now I just yell at her, and she goes, what do you need? And I was like, can I just yell? And she's like, absolutely, just yell. Just be your crazy self. And so it's also letting people know that this is what a friendship should look like.
00:14:54
Speaker
We get in fights all the time, but she's a person that we've learned to accept. And we're weirdos. We've learned to accept it and open up. And I can just tell her everything. And I don't think a lot of people have that. And so I also think, as well as just bringing up different topics and showing our curiosity, because we're very curious, I think we're showing people how to be supportive of each other. I definitely think modeling that sort of interaction and that behavior. And I have listened to the podcast. You really like it.
00:15:23
Speaker
And the way that you guys can joke, but you're also still like super kind and respectful and supportive of each other. That's really awesome. And Grant and I did an episode on dependency and basically like trying to talk about the healthy side of it that humans are social beings and we need each other.
00:15:42
Speaker
and not to kind of shy away from that. That goes back to the male depression thing because a lot of it is male trauma and vulnerability. Yeah. What did you read about misophonia out of curiosity? I've worked with some folks and it's poorly understood and it leads not just to suffering, but a lot of shame and isolation. It also reminds me of something called, you know, it's called bashful bladder syndrome.
00:16:07
Speaker
But it's usually men, sometimes women who are afraid to go to the bathroom in public. And there's all kinds of weird myths and misconceptions about it. So basically through brain scans, they basically, something about the sounds are activating the motor area. So if you're triggered by chewing or swallowing or whatever,
00:16:28
Speaker
it's actually activating something in the person, not to say that they're swallowing, but it's like the way I, and I don't know if I'm smart enough or if this is accurate, but the way, you know, you might hold like meat in front of a dog and they start salivating and to the point where then you don't, or you ring a bell, what is it? Like you ring a bell, you hold a, eventually you just have to ring the bell and they start salivating. It's, I think it's kind of the same thing where like they, they hear the gum chewing and it's activating something in them and it's making it physically uncomfortable. Like now the sound is inside of them. So there's a,
00:16:57
Speaker
They called it hyper mirroring. And so they're like mirror your mirror neurons, right? Yeah. And so like me and Maria discussed and she was taking it like, well, I don't feel like I'm swallowing when people are doing stuff. And I was like, I don't think that's what it is. I think it's, and she even said that like sometimes she will like start clearing her throat or something as though it like a calming mechanism, but.
00:17:17
Speaker
I think there's clearly a long way to go but the fact that people are even doing studies on it because it was a thing that was like made up or or people didn't believe it for so long and the same way that now people know a little bit about OCD they know a little bit about you know I'm trying to think of some other things that people
00:17:33
Speaker
that are in like the zeitgeist, even just depression, they might know just the baby version of it and everything is never, you know, there's so much more nuance to these things, but just the fact that people at least understand OCD is this compulsive thing. And it's, yes, it's not always hand washing, but there is something that is outside of them forcing them to kind of do this. I think the same thing with misophonia, you know, people are just like put in headphones or it's just, like, why are you having? They don't understand.
00:18:01
Speaker
Exactly. And I think slowly, like almost eight or so years ago when she first learned about that, there was nothing on it. There was maybe like one group and now there's been TV shows on it. The Guardian's doing articles, like, you know, so I think it's becoming more and more in the zeitgeist of something that people are at least acknowledging as something real because she just has noise canceling headphones. Like, I've seen her have a meltdown because she forgot them. And I'm like, do you want my headphones? And she's like, your headphones suck.
00:18:29
Speaker
Like I want my headphones. So she's found what she has to do. Her boyfriend knows about it. Like, you know, she's found coping mechanisms but I think this is the beginning of them seeing how do we fix this or how do we make this so it might, how do we have therapies so it could actually go away as opposed to just covering up a symptom.
00:18:50
Speaker
there's a lot of things like that that are called like central syndromes because they're going on in the brain right and it's the kind of thing where someone might say it's all in your head or don't be hysterical or you know it gets stigmatized it goes all the way back to a guy named Charcot who used to work with hysterics and they would
00:19:13
Speaker
flip into different personalities or their bodies would be in strange positions, right?
Misophonia and Validation
00:19:19
Speaker
Like we understand with things like fibromyalgia, chronic pain syndromes, mesophonia, a lot of these things that we don't understand as conventional medical problems have a biological basis and you can see it.
00:19:33
Speaker
with something like an MRI, you know, like functional brain scans. And then it becomes real. And actually, with trauma, this is really helpful, where even if you explain to someone how trauma is affecting the brain, and it's not like there's something wrong with you, there's something real, real, quote unquote, going on, all of a sudden, it's like a game changer.
00:19:55
Speaker
some people kind of shame you where you're like, why do you need a diagnosis? Why do you need to have a label to it? And you're like, a label can be so freeing when you've spent your whole life not thinking there's something wrong with you. And thinking like, I even dealt with that with myself with definitely wasn't diagnosed with, I was diagnosed with generalized anxiety disorder when I was 25 and I went to therapy and I was like, I don't have anxiety. I have anxiety my whole life, my entire life. Sorry, my cat is up and she's,
00:20:23
Speaker
She wants to be held. This is pasta. She has a whole book about her. I've read about you, pasta. Yeah, she's famous. She's a big deal. You're welcome for having her free on your podcast. Otherwise she cries. Oh, so for me, like one of my therapists diagnosed me with generalized anxiety. I fought it a little bit. I was like, I don't have anxiety. And then I was like, Oh, I've had it my whole life.
00:20:43
Speaker
I just didn't, I had no idea and now I can acknowledge it. And sometimes I have the coping mechanisms and the tools to handle it. Sometimes I have to take Xanax and sometimes all I have to do is just sit with it and be like, it's really bad. I have no tools right now and I just have to figure out how to wait it out. And I had probably
00:21:02
Speaker
And I've had panic attacks, I've had all this stuff. I've realized I probably had panic attacks when I was a kid and that's what they were and I had no idea. But now understanding it, having the tools, and then also being able just to call it out, this is anxiety.
Managing Anxiety
00:21:16
Speaker
It's so much more healing than what I was going through before, which is just, I'm freaking out and it's everybody's problem.
00:21:23
Speaker
Everyone's going to have to deal with this. And now to the point where like I can have the worst week ever and nobody knows about it, not because I'm hiding it, just because I'm going to go for a walk. I'm going to journal. I'm going to do X, Y, and Z to make sure that I process this and handle this. And it's only when things are really bad that I have to call somebody and be like, I just need somebody to listen to me. I'm going crazy. I think it takes a lot of work.
00:21:46
Speaker
to get to that point. But I do think that the first step is really understanding kind of what we're up against and for something like anxiety or depression. There are treatments that really do work. And I think when people are standing in front of it and the anxiety is so uncomfortable and it feels so scary and it feels like we'll never get a handle on it to be able to hear that, you know, it takes a lot of time and effort and energy, but it's possible, you know, manage to have a great life even within that.
00:22:15
Speaker
And just to know what it is, because it used to be I was uncomfortable and I didn't know why I was uncomfortable. And now I can be like, even if I can't solve it, I at least know it's within as opposed to like before it felt like things were happening to me. And now I'm just like, this is how I'm processing it right now. I'm clearly extremely overwhelmed.
00:22:36
Speaker
And I even had, when I was, I was really, really stressed last week. Like it just felt like it was a mixture of like hadn't done anything in a year and then everything I would have normally done in a year was happening in a week. And I was like, too much. This is too much. It's honestly, it's a running joke. I think either with freelancers or comedians specifically that you'll have nothing in your calendar. And then somebody will ask like four people on one day will be like, can you do a gig on this day? It's always the same day. You're like, my whole calendar is empty. And everybody wants, you know, July 10th, like this is garbage.
00:23:04
Speaker
But that's how it felt. It felt like every task I needed to do, every gig, everything was all within the span of three days. And I was like, not okay. And I had to just be like, I'm not okay right now. Like I'm really, really, really stressed and it's causing me to
00:23:19
Speaker
I didn't have a panic attack, but I had to sit there and be like, if I still feel this way tomorrow, I might take Xanax. I don't want to. I have it. I really try not to take it, but I'm this close to having to take something. Let me do X, Y, and Z to see if we can prevent that. Let me see if I get this one thing off my plate, if that'll bring it down, because I was waking up every morning.
00:23:38
Speaker
Sick to my stomach like I was nauseous I had pain in my stomach and I was like I remember this from four years ago When I was getting ready for a big trip and I was really scared So I know that what this it like and I was able to kind of talk to myself Acknowledge what it was Acknowledge that it's probably not gonna get better until this one thing's off the table And then also I have x y and z to get and like and not holding Xanax over my head like it was a treat but it was just like if it gets to a point where I can't function I do have a backup and
00:24:04
Speaker
It's good to have that safety net. You know, naming things is important and also recognizing that it's temporary.
Storytelling and Trauma
00:24:11
Speaker
A lot of times when people feel overwhelmed, you lose your sense of time. With anxiety, distress, with trauma, it's like you're inside of it. It's not inside of you. And so you learn to tell a better story.
00:24:24
Speaker
I've had some experiences that reminds me of what you talk about with your comedy where I've written about usually complex trauma, complex PTSD. And I have gotten messages from around the world where people say, now I know what I'm dealing with. A lot of times people might, maybe they're diagnosed with borderline personality disorder, but no one has looked at the developmental trauma and how that shapes our ability to regulate ourselves and executive function. But yeah, I think this week is better.
00:24:53
Speaker
Yeah, no, I do. I feel so much better, and it really was. I got this one thing off my plate, and then I had a day where I had to shoot a thing for HBO, and then I had two headlining shows. I hadn't headlined in a month. I had my agent coming out. I had another prospect of an agent coming out. I was just like... It was like...
00:25:09
Speaker
And I, it was all good things. Nothing was bad, by the way. That's the other thing is that I used to not be able to differentiate between like, this is I care too much anxiety. And what if something bad happens anxiety? And I had to be like, this is good, like good things are happening. And I want to make sure they still happen, but I don't have that much control over it. So it's like,
00:25:30
Speaker
You know what I mean? So like there's some things I had to prepare for. I had to prepare for this taping. I had to prepare for my show. There's things, and I know that with myself, like sometimes when I'm about to do an hour and I haven't done it in a while, I have to do homework and I hate homework. It doesn't even matter that I wrote all these jokes. It doesn't matter that I like these jokes. I hate that I have to practice because it's not like a band where you get all your friends together and you strum some stuff and at least you get to like hang out. I have to stand in my room and recite my bits to my cat and I hate it.
00:25:57
Speaker
And, but I have to do it. Otherwise I'll be on stage. I won't be in the moment. I'll be really stressed. And I was like, you can either have be stressed the whole time and be stressed on stage and not be able to enjoy yourself. Or you take 45 minutes and you practice your shit. And so it was like, just once I practiced it, I felt a little bit better. It took about 20, you know, 20% off the top. Then, you know, I practiced again. That took another two. And it's just like, sometimes it's just me being a baby and just being like, I don't want to do work. I tell jokes for a living. I don't have to do any work.
00:26:27
Speaker
And I have to kind of talk myself off that like, you barely do any work. Just do the little bit of work you're supposed to do. Like I almost, Elizabeth, go do your homework. Although I think with any job, there are the parts that are really, really awesome and fun and why we get into the field. And then there are parts that are just a real drag. We have, where we have to write notes or do like administrative stuff and it, it.
00:26:49
Speaker
you know, can be tough, but I'm wondering if things are a little bit different or like what it was like for you, because I'm guessing for a while there were no
Pandemic and Career Reassessment
00:26:57
Speaker
live shows going on and what it has felt like to be back in front of an audience. I'm so much happier. Like even, that's the other thing is like, I have all this anxiety, but I'm like, this is what I want to be doing. So sometimes you're just mad at your brain. Cause you're like, you wanted this.
00:27:11
Speaker
Why are you being a baby? This is what you wanted. And I was like, yeah, but I wanted it a year ago. Like there's just like this part of you that's just like, yeah, but I wanted it when I wanted it. I don't want it now. And also I got used to being a sack of shit. Like I got used to being lazy. Like it was kind of dope. The government was giving me money and I didn't have to leave the house and it was awesome. Like I have a new joke where I was like, where I'm like, like, remember when they were like, Hey, if you give people that don't make a lot of money, they might not want to go back to work. That's me. I don't want to be here right now. It was awesome. It was the best time of my life.
00:27:39
Speaker
And I like what I do and it was still awesome but I think the last year gave me so much perspective on what's important to me, how much I wanna work. I was absolutely burnt out and had been burnt out for years and a lot of comedians and a lot of performers because we're gig to gig felt that way and we were never gonna take a break. We were never gonna slow down and most people slow down when they get sick, when they get cancer, when they get fired and that's just the way the freelancers life is, the performance life is. I was never gonna take a break.
00:28:08
Speaker
And so I was very grateful, even when I was scared and even when I wanted to go back to work to have the break. After about two months, I was like, I'm good. Like if we could get the message to the world, I'm good now, I'm rested. But coming back, I'm grateful. I have a better understanding of how I want my schedule to look. I've situated myself both mentally and financially and physically.
00:28:33
Speaker
to be more aware of what my goals are, where before it was like, just keep going. Like literally the goal was just keep going, keep building. There was no like real plan. Like it was kind of like, if I had somebody, I have a manager, but like if I had, let's just say somebody opening the door to my career, it would just be like, everybody come in.
00:28:52
Speaker
Just, you know, put money on the table and just tell me what you want. And now there's a little bit of an entry fit. There's a little bit of a like, how much time do you want to do what? No, thank you. Like self care. Yeah, that would be the simpler way of what I just said. Yeah.
00:29:07
Speaker
No, I mean it's, it's overly generalized and people usually think it means like exercise and eating right, but you're sort of talking about your relationship with yourself, setting, being able to set boundaries.
00:29:22
Speaker
And you know, people need to set it in a work
Digital Boundaries
00:29:25
Speaker
environment. Cause like, I know people like friends that have real jobs that are like, I'm not answering emails after 6 p.m. You don't pay me to work 24 seven. I'm not doing that. And that's respectable. But I had to say, I'm not answering fan emails after 10 p.m. What? First of all, it's weird. Like stop answering fans at one in the morning. Like that's like crossing. Like I had to be like, stop. That might be the wrong signal.
00:29:49
Speaker
Yeah, of course. And they're just being like, when are you gonna be in Ohio? And it's 1 a.m. and I'm like sending links. But I do everything. And so I would just fill in, like, there's no time to do social media. You just, I'm doing it when I'm waiting for the subway train. I'm doing it when I'm, you know, on hold waiting to talk to the bank. Like, I'm doing it in my in-between time because it's an extra thing on top of the million things I have to do. But I had to set a boundary for myself because I was doing it late at night. And sometimes you get an email and you're like, I don't know.
00:30:18
Speaker
fucking be reading this at one in the morning before I go to bed. This is distressing. This is boundary crossing. And like, I'm blocking people left and not right. I'm restricting people. There's tons of unfun stuff that goes with having a fan base. The time to do that is during the day, not before I go to bed. And so, and that's also the blurred line between I'm posting pictures of my cats and my niece and nephew and also posting my dates for my tour. And so I have weirdos that are seeing everything that think,
00:30:45
Speaker
Personal is is professional is so it's I'm also have to create those boundaries for myself as well But no one teaches this I'm the one learning it and then teaching it to my friends when they get some crazy person I go this is what you got to do because I went through that two years ago and this is how I've learned to set boundaries with fans none of this is taught to performers or to Personality people or what have you and it's they're taught the opposite usually
00:31:09
Speaker
Yes, and also social media and the internet, and I think it's bleeding into regular life, is telling you you need to be accessible 24-7. And that's what's driving people crazy. And so during the pandemic, it was really hard to set boundaries. Hey, are you free?
00:31:26
Speaker
Technically, yeah, technically I'm free until 2022 if you look at my calendar, but no, I don't wanna have this phone call right now. No, I'm not gonna accept this crap money. And letting myself know that it's okay to say no and that money will come or gigs will come in another way because this is belittling to my work and all that I built up for myself.
00:31:50
Speaker
you have to have a healthy relationship with yourself. And that's self stewardship is a skill a lot of people don't learn until, if at all, until later in their life.
Email Management Strategies
00:32:00
Speaker
You know, email also has this schedule send thing that I use a lot because I'll be up late and I've learned not to reply right away, but I'll write the email and then I'll schedule it to send at like 10 a.m. the next morning. And I run a company and I made a rule that unless it's urgent, email is between eight and six, you know?
00:32:18
Speaker
unless they can't wait, then you can text. So why did you agree to come on our podcast? I feel even luckier. Because I'll say this, I think for me personally in my career, podcasts have a value because your fan base might never know about my comedy. We might have no cross lines and who listens to you guys and who listens to us, but I do think they might enjoy me. So I did a podcast during the pandemic. It was very hard to say no during the pandemic. I'll tell you that much.
00:32:47
Speaker
Um, but I did these three young guys, they were like 19, 20 years old and they're like, they were so honest. They're like, we're pretty sure we have seven listeners and two of them are our moms. Would you come on our podcast? We're a big fan. Sure. And I actually had some anxiety. I was like, are they going to make fun of me? Like, I don't know why, but my first instinct was to think they aren't really fans. And this was like a weird setup or whatever.
00:33:08
Speaker
the nicest boys, like truly the nicest guys. Had this great podcast, had so much fun. I'm an older sister, so I like older sister mother bared the shit out of them. It was really funny, really silly. And they were super grateful and they were super generous. A couple of people were like, this was our favorite episode. Maybe I made two extra fans. But to me, it was an exercise in talking to other people, talking to people. I'm not talking to 20-year-old boys. I actually have no interest, but here it is.
00:33:35
Speaker
to even know that my comedy is accessible to them is actually really interesting to me. And then I learned something about myself. There's a chance that that lives
Podcast Opportunities During Pandemic
00:33:44
Speaker
on forever. So something like this, it's interesting to me. I get to meet some great people. Hopefully this expands even just in a 1% way to people that might not find what I do. But I actually think going outside your box and making time for things is really important.
00:34:02
Speaker
But I've also, I've said no. I've said no. And then also I've misstepped and done some bad podcasts. And then what happens is I send it to all my friends. Because I've said like, you know how they're learning about word of mouth? More so because social media is technically word of mouth. I have the loudest mouth.
00:34:21
Speaker
in general. You hurt me. There's a joke that will be on TV within a couple of months. Don't fuck with me. I love writing and I love complaining, but I've done some podcasts where instantly I'm like, this was a bad idea. These people are crazy. That's not you guys. You're doing great. I was going to ask. Yeah, you're doing great.
00:34:40
Speaker
Um, but then I try to save my friends because we're pretty tight knit circle. Most people know, especially female comics. We have a kind of tighter knit because we have to make our friend like guy comics. They'll be on shows together so they can have a casual friendship because they're accidentally going to see their friends every night. Usually one.
00:35:00
Speaker
Possibly two female comics are in a show. It's very rare So all my girlfriends like we do a show and then we have to text each other and find when they're gonna be doing Like you really have to work to have a female friendship in comedy So we're super tight so that I'm like, hey these people are nuts They'll probably email you do not do I like to save other people like a woman's comedy special or a comedy event every year or something like that. I
00:35:23
Speaker
I've done panels and stuff. I did a panel a couple of months ago where it was female comics talking to younger female comics. I get back to any comic that wants advice, but especially female comics because it is harder. I just feel like you should start something like that. I want to say something off color for the name, but I won't.
00:35:42
Speaker
I just- Something Palooza. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I've started doing- You don't have to, it's okay. No, no, no, of course. I'm more of a casual helper than I am a formative helper because then there's, whenever you start to make money or have to organize stuff, I either feel slimy or I get resentful.
00:36:05
Speaker
And I've just learned that like, I'm already overwhelmed with all that I do for myself and for the people around me that I don't wanna add an extra layer of it. What do you think about that Farah? Oh, I think that's great. But it's reminding me a little bit not to get too much into like the 12 step kind of model, but that people really like once they reach a certain point are generous enough to kind of like do service for someone who might be struggling with something that you could very easily help with. And I'm wondering,
00:36:34
Speaker
If you think it's just because of that big sister role or because people were kind of helpful to you when you were starting out, what has sort of led you to access that generosity?
00:36:48
Speaker
I would say a combination of both. I mean, I definitely feel like I was raised to be a caretaker, whether I wanted to or not. So I'm very close with my siblings. I have friends that are five, 10, 15 years older, and I'm the one they go to for advice. I'm very much a perpetual big sister. And I'm a vivacious, vivacious, is that a word? Vivacious. Vivacious, thank you. Or voracious. I don't know. Voracious, that's a...
00:37:15
Speaker
I just say words and hope that they're right, but I read a shit ton. You're very bright, I can tell. Thank you. It's very kind. It's all facade. I just read a lot of books and I regret to taste stuff, but I do. I like to read. I like to experiment. I take a lot of risks. I have a friend that's like that to me that I went to high school with. We're the same age, but I always say she fucks up two years before me so that I can learn from it.
00:37:38
Speaker
And so I feel like I've passed on that quality. Like she did that for me and then I do that for my literal little sister, but then also my friends. I think in general, it makes me feel good. In general, it makes me feel like I'm utilizing all this stuff I do in my free time because I love to read. I love to learn. I love to experiment. And then so many people helped me. I mean,
00:37:59
Speaker
It's almost insane. I started when I was 16. I wasn't aware enough to know how scared and fragile I should have known it was for a 16-year-old girl in New York City the year after 9-11 to be running around doing stand-up.
Early Comedy Career
00:38:15
Speaker
What was your first gig?
00:38:16
Speaker
I did a bringer show which a bringer show is when you bring paid guests and you get stage time so I did a bringer show at the Comedy Cellar which they don't even do anymore and I now work there so I remember telling the booker I was like oh when I was 16 I did a bringer show and she was so embarrassed because I was like oh I can't believe we used to do that but it was 19 years ago. Enough people knew
00:38:37
Speaker
Oh God, there's a 16-year-old girl running around doing open mics. Let's make sure she's okay. And there were so many people that looked out for me, that took care of me, that I'm still friends with, gave me advice that I did not want and should have listened to. Took me a while to listen to.
00:38:56
Speaker
there's even now looking back I'm like those people were so busy and so important and they took the time to answer my questions look out for me recommend me for stuff so I think a lot of I feel a lot of warmth towards how I was treated at such a young age and I reap so much of those benefits that I especially love when young comedians guys or girls when they're in anybody in their teenage years I'm just like oh my god I see my
00:39:22
Speaker
myself in here, like cheesy, like, oh my God, my little, I remember being you. But then just even, you know, a lot of my friends started in their late twenties, early thirties, and they've always felt super behind where they're like, you know, when I was 30, I had all these TV credits and they hadn't even started yet and they're catching up. So I also have that perspective because I've heard my friends. So then there's somebody that's like, Hey, I'm 32 and I'm just starting. And I feel like I failed. And I'm like, you haven't failed. My friend's been on Conan and Colbert. She started at 30. You're fine. You're fine. You've got this.
00:39:51
Speaker
I think doing what you wanna do is so scary, especially when it's in the arts, because everybody's like, I think the coolest thing that came out of the pandemic is nothing is safe. I know there's a negative to that, which is like, oh God, nothing is safe. But on the other end, if you were gonna do something unsafe, like become an artist,
00:40:10
Speaker
People lost real jobs that they thought they would never lose. So why not take the risk and go do what you actually want to do? So there's so many young comedians that you wouldn't think have started during the pandemic and they have, and I think it's awesome.
New Comedians Emerge
00:40:23
Speaker
Like I think it's clearly even harder, but I think if you can do comedy during a pandemic, what is this? Hollywood doesn't even, it's not even going to hurt you.
00:40:34
Speaker
There are a couple of times in my life where I've almost taken comedy training, stand-up classes, but maybe Farah has some other questions. I see where we're coming to the end of our time. I wish we had more time, but I've got to ask you, what is it like getting these tremendous laughs from a huge group of people?
Euphoria of Laughter
00:40:53
Speaker
Acceptance? I don't know. I've done drugs, so I should be able to make a comparison. I always did drugs when I was younger to numb out, and this is the opposite of numbing out. They actually say people that do drugs or drink or whatever, you're just looking for connection, and this is the closest thing to it.
00:41:15
Speaker
Is it true connection? Probably not. These are strangers. I'm never going to see them again. I have true connection with my friends and my family and I can be my absolute self. But to have something similar, to have something, I have these ideas. You don't know who I am and I've connected with you. It just feels like
00:41:35
Speaker
maybe like a shortcut to connection. Cause it's frivolous. Cause I, God knows I know so many comedians that drink and do drugs and it's clearly not good enough. And I'm grateful that I have the real stuff at home with my friends and stuff, but, but it, it feels like acceptance. It feels, it's just, you're just hitting the face with like, I knew I was right. You know that feeling when you're right? It's like that all the time. It's awesome. I feel like that a lot, but you feel like that every minute of every day.
00:42:03
Speaker
I used to hate business and now I'm a businessman and entrepreneur, which is a whole other story. Maybe we can talk again sometime. I'd be happy to be a guest on your podcast if you're interested. But do you feel more present at those moments?
00:42:18
Speaker
It depends, so I love writing new jokes and doing new material and you'll never, once the joke is polished and you know it, like it's memorized, I know where I'm gonna get my laughs, you do start to go in a little bit of auto drive. I do talk in between jokes and I get silly. If the audience loves me, I'm even more present and I'm myself, but eventually you've done this joke 50 times. It's there, you know where it's gonna get a laugh. If it doesn't get a laugh, you're like, you're wrong.
00:42:45
Speaker
But I love doing new material nights. I usually do those at least once a week, if not before the pandemic, even more. I'm constantly writing new jokes. They're not fully formed. You don't really know what you're saying. And you're 100% in the moment. And I think if doing stand up gives the same adrenaline burst as, you know, e-sport, e-sports, what are those? Is that when you're jumping off? X Games? Not X Games. What is it when you're on like a skateboard or stuff and you go off a ramp?
00:43:14
Speaker
Extreme sports. Extreme sports. Sorry. I don't know things. So like applying acts of courage. That's where I think it's the same kind of adrenaline because I'm saying stuff and I don't know how people are going to react. I have no idea. And when that gets a laugh, it's just like it's even more powerful. And so that's why by the time I do my special and all the jokes are polished, I'm proud of myself. I'm glad it went well, but it doesn't feel nearly the same as when I'm doing a five minute set of new stuff and that goes well.
00:43:44
Speaker
The cutting edge feels real different. Awesome, so I just want to make sure that we leave a little bit of time to talk about your book.
Humorous Book on Cats
00:43:51
Speaker
The book is incredible and it's so full of not just humor but also real like important information and facts about our beloved little terrorists, right?
00:44:02
Speaker
Yeah, no, I'm happy because I wanted it to be informative, but also like I always tell people it's 200 pages of cat jokes. Like it is super silly. There's a lot of opinion pieces. Like I have a whole chapter on like how to name your cat and, you know, are you an indoor human or an outdoor human? It's very important to find out. I don't know, but it made me think of one of your webinar YouTube videos where you're fighting, it sounds like you're fighting with a boyfriend maybe, and then it's, I guess it's pasta.
00:44:29
Speaker
Oh yeah, truly. We had some real big fights. My old roommate Carmen, that was part of C3, but she has so many jokes about me and my cat. They're even in the book as well because when she lived with me, this is seven years ago, pasta was in her bitchy phase and was very bitey. They did not always get along. Sometimes people just have a shitty demeanor. Kitties have a shitty demeanor.
00:44:56
Speaker
sometimes people are bullies and you have to talk to them what i've noticed is they get older there's a stage where cats all of a sudden become much more self-aware and they become much more like people at least that's been my experience yeah i feel like at some point they they know you and they're starting to be like
00:45:14
Speaker
What do you need? I think I'm gonna get in trouble if I do this. And some of them don't care at all. Like my cat used to steal chicken, like I'd be cooking. And if I looked even a little bit, like chicken is gone. Like this girl is taking chicken and she is running. She doesn't do it anymore because she's like, I mean, she would get locked out. I was like, you have to stay in the room until I'm done cooking. And now it's, she's a beggar. And I was like, I'll take begging. And that's where the compromise is. I'll throw you a little chicken if you wait until I cook it. Like just give me a second.
00:45:43
Speaker
But yeah, she's, I will say female cats, and I know this is not a feminist thing to say, they got an attitude and they go through some changes. I would say that for myself. Now I feel really intrigued, you know? I just think they're really protective. Like I just think there is something genetically where they're like, I make babies, I have to be protective. And so they're just kind of on edge until they're like, I don't think I'm gonna, like my cat was like, oh, I don't think I make babies. Like I think you took that ability away from me.
00:46:13
Speaker
Right. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for being here. I mean, it was so great to be able to talk to you and really, you know, appreciate your time and everything else.
Promoting Liz's Work
00:46:23
Speaker
Oh, I mean, you know, you do so much good. You've given me so many laughs. A lot of things you've said are really moving. So thank you for sharing just heartfelt, very special time. And where can people find you? And where do you want people to look?
00:46:39
Speaker
Yeah, so all my social media is at Liz Miele. I kind of tell people don't follow me on Instagram. It's all cat pictures. So, you know, be aware. Or do you follow you? Yeah, no. That's what they're looking for. So at Liz Miele on everything. My book is Why Cats Are Assholes. It's available everywhere. I'm touring. So all my tour dates are on my website, LizMiele.com. And my podcast with the very funny Maria Shahada is called Two Non-Doctors.
00:47:05
Speaker
And that's free, and it's everywhere. And we talk about everything and anything with little to no accuracy. Two non-doctors. Also, the only other thing I have to ask today is it reminded me of the band Four Non-Blondes.
00:47:20
Speaker
I think of that too. Like I, in general, I use a lot of double negatives and I think like it's done well for me to use double negatives in my standup because it's a good mislead, but I do a lot of like, in general, I think I'm very negative, but a lot of my stuff is like, it goes into the negative, I'm too non-doctor. So it also is like, don't listen to us. Like that's our tagline, like listen, but don't listen. You're so negative, you go positive. Yeah.
00:47:48
Speaker
Excellent. Thanks so much. Yeah. Thanks guys. I really appreciate it. Had fun. Take care. Thanks for listening to Dornop comments. We're committed to bringing you new episodes with great guests. Please take a moment to share your thoughts. We'd love it if you could leave a rating and review on your favorite podcast platform. You can also find us on Instagram at Dornop comments.
00:48:10
Speaker
Remember this podcast is for general information purposes only and does not constitute the practice of psychiatry or any other type of medicine. This is not a substitute for professional and individual treatment services and no doctor patient relationship is formed. If you feel that you may be in crisis, please don't delay in securing mental health treatment. Thank you for listening.