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What's wrong with the Cardinals from the top down.
112 Plays2 years ago
I talk about the 2023 St Louis Cardinals from President of Baseball operations to the players.
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Transcript
Introduction and Opening Remarks
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome folks to my spot up here on the bleachers. I'm glad you stopped by and as J.D. Clampo would say, come on up and sit a spell. I'm Don Glenn and this is Talking Sports on the Bleachers. You got to get it done. This is Gateway City Sports. The rumors are true.
00:00:24
Speaker
This is Talking Sports on the Bleachers with Don Glenn. A confident young man. A superb athlete. A look at the sports issues of the day. Grab a seat, top a cold one, and let's talk some sports. See, that sounds kind of interesting. Gentlemen, start your engines!
Iconic Sports Moments and Emotional Connections
00:01:00
Speaker
Grown on the shotgun, here's a snap, Romo looking, dumps it off right, and her sentence! Her sentence was goal-lined by the Woodson! And there is your Gallagher! Rule for the widespread stance, arms out over the place. Bickford from the threat. The one-time hit. A play, and there it goes!
00:01:47
Speaker
Playoffs? Don't talk about it. Playoffs? You kidding me? Playoffs? Are you crying? There's no crying! There's no crying in baseball! You don't understand I could have had class.
00:02:11
Speaker
I could have been a contender. I could have been somebody. Holy cow! Hey, Dad?
00:02:44
Speaker
You want to have a catch? I'd like that.
Focus on the St. Louis Cardinals
00:02:54
Speaker
Well, welcome back everyone to my spot up here on the bleachers where we sit and talk sports. I got a brand new sponsor. I'm going to be revealing later today. I hope you got your favorite cold frosties, Mike Shannon would say. So pull up a seat cushion and we'll get into it.
00:03:10
Speaker
I want to let you know that Talking Sports on the Bleaches is a proud member of Gateway City Sports and GatewayCitySports.com. Check out GatewayCitySports.com for articles and podcasts.
00:03:23
Speaker
I don't have a guest this week so it's just you and me. Now normally if you ever been around the show you know that I try to do a little bit of everything and you know maybe some golf here and there we do a little bit of football or NCAA but today is going to be all about the
Cardinals' Performance and Social Media Reactions
00:03:40
Speaker
St. Louis Cardinals so if you're not a Cardinals fan I apologize for this being not what you want to listen to but I hope you listen anyway because maybe
00:03:52
Speaker
Maybe I don't want to convert you, but yeah, maybe you disagree with me, and if you do fine shoot me a line See I'll give you contact info a little bit later But you know as always if I've got something I hear and I say something you guys don't don't agree with me Let me know about I really want to hear I really want to know what you guys think so I'll give you information about that later and I just want to get this cardinal stuff off my chest because I've been holding it in a little bit and I've been
00:04:20
Speaker
You know, as I go on Twitter and Facebook and I see all these keyboard GMs and managers proclaiming to be experts about everything and, you know, they know this and this is why the Cardinals didn't do this or, uh, I have proof that, you know, no, you ain't got nothing. Okay. So yes, there are reports out there all over the place.
00:04:46
Speaker
and you can find anything, whether you go to the athletic or you go to Redbird Ranch or you go to any other Facebook page or listen to different podcasts, locked on Cardinals, meet me at the unusual Redbird Report.
Insider Knowledge and Management Frustrations
00:05:04
Speaker
I mean, there's a ton of them out there.
00:05:09
Speaker
But nobody's got the real clue. I mean, none of us really do. Because we're not in the meetings when Mo talks to Ollie. And we're not in the clubhouse when Ollie talks to the team. And we're not on the field when the players are playing. So we don't know. All we can do is give our best guess. So I'm going to take things down one at a time.
00:05:36
Speaker
And again, I'm going to put my disclaimer out there that I have no knowledge. Uh, this is not from the brother of the neighbor of Mo's Taylor or anything like that, or it's not from Mo himself. It's just what I think. Uh, just like what you think. And again, if you disagree with me, love to talk to you about it. Okay. Uh, maybe even you want to come on the show and we can have a little discussion about it. Love to have that too.
Listener Engagement and Feedback
00:06:00
Speaker
So if you have questions or you've got comments, hit me up. Whoops. Excuse me.
00:06:06
Speaker
Uh, if you have questions or comments, hit me up on Twitter at T S O T B G C S. So, okay.
Cardinals' Performance Statistics
00:06:13
Speaker
This season is not going according plan. We all know that if you would have asked Cardinal fans earlier this year, say January or February, if you said, where will the Cardinals be on June 13th? Okay. Uh, I'm using June 13th as my cutoff. I mean, I'm a few recordings a few days later, but as of June 13th,
00:06:34
Speaker
If you said, where would the Cardinals be? I don't think many people would have said we'd be 15 games under 500 and last place in the central vision with the worst record in the National League. I do not believe that would have come out of anybody's mouth. Nobody would have thought that. Yeah, we had questions on the pitching staff. We knew that. But nobody would have thought we'd have been there. Been where we're at at that point. On June 13th,
00:07:03
Speaker
The Cardinals were 27-42. Eight games under 500 at home. Seven games under 500 on the road. Three games under 500 against center division opponents. And 12 games under 500 against everybody else. Okay? Worst record in the National League at the time.
00:07:23
Speaker
Now we've finally gone up a little bit or through or the other way you can look at it the rocky in the net Rockies and Nationals have gone down Anyway, we're not below the worst record in the National League anymore at least as of the 18th of June when I'm recording this So I'm recording is that for the Mets series, which I'll do a little bit about here shortly But now in a quirk of some good news though even given all that I
00:07:48
Speaker
They're only eight games or eight and a half games out of first place behind first place Milwaukee in the central division. It gives you an idea how weak the central division is, isn't it? So the Cardinals started out with a horrible April going 10 and 19. Uh, may they were 15 and 13. And so far in June, they've gotten back to their April standings and they're now four and 11. Uh, and that's after winning two games, uh, this weekend in New York.
Critique of Cardinals' Front Office Decisions
00:08:19
Speaker
So my first thing about what's going on with the Cardinals and it is with the front office. It has to be. I mean, you cannot say the front office doesn't own this. Uh, but it's John Mosalak and his arrogance. He's an arrogant SOB and I'm going to call him out. If he wants to dispute that, he can get ahold of me and I'll bring him on the show.
00:08:49
Speaker
Honest to God, I have made this, I'll bring anybody on the show that'll come on. I don't care if it's Moselok, Gersh, Rob Manford. I have challenged Manford to come on this show many, many times. I haven't heard back at all. But anyway, if he wants to argue that he is not an arrogant SOB, John, come on the show.
00:09:18
Speaker
Mo, I want to bring you on the show. You come on this show and tell me why you're not an arrogant SOB. Because here's why I think you are. First, you ignore the actual need of this team. And I say that because the last three years, this team has been screaming for frontline pitching.
00:09:47
Speaker
maybe not necessarily ace, doesn't have to be a big ace guy like a Verlander or somebody like that but top pitching a top of the rotation guy that's gonna go out there every five days keep you in a ballgame and give you the chance to win you do not have that on this team now Flaherty has potential Montgomery I think could
00:10:17
Speaker
But guess what, Mo? You don't, you in your infinite wisdom didn't extend their contracts. They're free agents next year. So if you don't do something between now and November, you're not gonna have them. Then who's gonna be your number one starter? Who's gonna be that guy you get out there? Miles Michaelis?
00:10:44
Speaker
Now, don't get me wrong, I like Miles. Don't get me, I like Miles Michaelis. I like the Lizard King. But he's not a top of the rotation guy. He's a good number three. You know, but he's not a top of rotation guy. Steven Matts is a good number five. He's not a top of the rotation guy. Matthew Libertor.
00:11:11
Speaker
Too young to be a top of the rotation. He hasn't proven himself yet. Woodford? I mean, come on, Mo. The last three years, you've needed to bring in somebody to be that top of the rotation guy. And you have ignored it every year. And you know, I don't understand why he does it. Maybe he thinks we're stupid.
00:11:43
Speaker
Maybe Mo thinks we're stupid. And we'll all believe the hype and hyperbole that all Flaherty needs is an injury free season. And Matt's is strong and looks good and he'll bounce back. Now, I will say Matt's did have a very impressive spring training. But then again, when you've got the majority of the big boys playing in the WBC,
00:12:12
Speaker
He wasn't facing
Evaluation of Trades and Player Decisions
00:12:13
Speaker
everybody. So maybe that was part of it. Because he and Woodford both had great spring trainings, got in the regular season, and realistically couldn't pitch their way out of wet paper sack. Woodford did better than Matt's, but this has gone on for three years. After the 2020 pandemic year, and he thinks that, okay, we're gonna go with Martinez and Flaherty and KK,
00:12:41
Speaker
and Michaelis and Wayne Wright. How'd that work out? Well, see, if I remember right, we started the season, two starters short. And then I think it was KK came back, Martinez got hurt. And then Flaherty got hurt.
00:13:09
Speaker
You had to go and get Wade LeBlanc and then aging John Lester and J.A. Happ. Now, you did all right. They came out okay. We made the playoffs. We had that 17 game run. You know, it came out okay. But then the next year, when you're looking at the same situation, you know you're not going to have KK.
00:13:38
Speaker
You know that Martinez has pretty much shot the hell in a handbasket. Flaherty's coming off yet another injury. And what do you do? Not a damn thing. You didn't. Okay, yeah, you sang Stephen Matts. I'm sorry, you sang Stephen Matts.
00:14:01
Speaker
So you got Matt Michaels, Wayne Wright, and then you were hoping like hell you had two people to throw in there. So you make, we're going to make Hicks a starter. How'd that work out? When you had pictures available, that didn't, wouldn't have cost a whole lot to go get. And this last year,
00:14:31
Speaker
You know, you're so worried about replacing Yadier Molina with the best all around catcher, which you did not do. He didn't do that. And then he tries to make us believe that Contreras was the best catcher they could get a hold of. And they're going to pay him $85 million for five years. I don't know who in the world
00:15:02
Speaker
actually believed it a lot of us wanted to believe it we did we wanted to believe this but I mean the proof is in right there in front of you mo and yet you're gonna sit back here and this aloof arrogance
00:15:22
Speaker
tell us that all we just need to be patient everything's going to be fine and our pitching is going to come around and we've got these guys in this okay I'm done defending Mo I am done until he comes up and proves that what he's doing is actually helping this ball club I am done defending Mo
00:15:49
Speaker
I have defended him in the past. I defended him in the Rosarina trade. And I think that one is still to be determined. I think Libertor, he's been showing me some stuff lately. Now that he's in the rotation, I think he's there to stay. So we'll see how that goes out with the Libertor. I mean, that one still, I mean, it's gonna be hard, don't get me wrong, because a Rosarina has put up some numbers. But at the time,
00:16:17
Speaker
I wasn't that upset about the trade of a Rosarina if they made an effort to keep Ozuna, which they didn't, or if they would have actually given guys like Lane Thomas an actual chance and they didn't. I mean some can argue that Lane had a good chance, but you know he
00:16:39
Speaker
He had a problem, I think he was still at 21, he was still trying to recover from COVID from the year before.
00:16:50
Speaker
You know, and he's not doing that great. So, you know, maybe I was wrong on that, you know, but I thought Lane Thomas was a good ball player. So we had Bader and we had O'Neill and Carlson was coming up. And, you know, so I figured, okay, we're trading from our strength. That wasn't that big of a deal. I didn't expect a Rosarina to go off like he did. I mean, I knew he was going to be a good player, but I didn't think he'd be anywhere expecting MVP performance out of the guy.
00:17:17
Speaker
But then you go back and let's go back and look at the Ozuna trade. People are pointing at that one. Well there's another trade he's screwed up. Okay well at the time we're trading four prospects for a proven 30 home run 100 RBI guy. Which we needed in the middle of that lineup. Now
00:17:35
Speaker
We got, uh, I think a damaged bill of goods. So yes, I think maybe most screwed up there and not getting a true health assessment on those. Um, but I don't think anybody expected Sandy Alcantara to be a Cy Young award winner.
00:17:50
Speaker
He was going to be a good pitcher. There was no doubt about that. He was going to be a top major league starter. I don't think anybody thought he was going to win a Cy Young. But look at what the Marlins have done. I mean, have they won a championship with him? No. So while, yes, we missed out, there's also nothing that's going to suggest that Alcantara would have done that for St. Louis.
00:18:21
Speaker
So while the trade does look bad at this point, I'm going to leave this little tidbit out there. We did get a compensatory pick for not being able to sign Ozuna. And with that compensatory pick, we did get Tink Hints. So that trade still has some legs yet to figure out how good it was actually going to be.
00:18:48
Speaker
uh... and i think because of those two trades in particular and the uh... sale if you will of a dolus garcia to uh... for cash considerations i think with those three deals that have turned so sour uh... in a lot of fans minds and i think it's kind of played with mo i mean and again mo if i'm wrong come on the show and tell me i'm wrong i dare you
00:19:15
Speaker
So if you don't come on the show and tell me I'm wrong, guess what? I'm gonna believe I'm right. Anyway... Yeah, I like that it's gonna make Mo come on my show. Anyway, but I think he's been scared to cut loose of some of the prime prospects, if you will.
00:19:32
Speaker
to get proven talent. Now, having said that, would I have wanted them to dump Walker or Win for Juan Soto? No. And I will defend that to my last breath.
00:19:51
Speaker
Juan Soto was not worth our number one prospect. No, not in the least. Because here's why I say that.
Debate on Juan Soto Trade vs Jordan Walker
00:20:01
Speaker
And I've said this before, but I think Jordan Walker, before it's all said and done, will probably end up with a better career than Juan Soto. Because he's a
00:20:17
Speaker
He's a better, he has more tools. Juan Soto's a phenomenal hitter. Do not get me wrong on this. Juan Soto can hit a goddamn baseball, okay? Like nobody business. But he's not that great of an outfielder. He doesn't have a lot of speed.
00:20:40
Speaker
He doesn't really hit for that much of a good average. He's OK. He's better than most. Doesn't have a strong arm. And I think Walker, even though he is learning the outfield, I think he'll end up being a better outfielder than Soto. I think he's going to have a better arm than Soto.
00:21:02
Speaker
Um, and I think he's actually going to be the better hitter because if you, I mean, if you look at what Walker does and the way the ball comes off his bat, um, he just phenomenal. I think he's ever bit the hitter that Juan Soto is. And, um, I would not have given up Walker for Soto because you're only going to get, you were only going to get Soto for two years. So why are you going to give Washington?
00:21:31
Speaker
seven years of Jordan Walker. I mean, come on.
00:21:38
Speaker
Now, a lot of people say, well, Carlson was the fly in that ointment. No, he was not. I mean, he was, to a certain extent, in that I think the trade for Bader was already in the works and just needed to be signed. So they knew they weren't going to have a center fielder. So I think maybe that might have been the one reason they were holding onto Carlson, because Juan Soto was not going to be able to play center. I don't care if you would have given him a flipping go-kart. I don't think he'd get a covered center.
00:22:12
Speaker
So there is that. But I think the big sticking point was they wanted Walker and I agree not to give up Walker in that respect.
Offseason Moves and Roster Impact
00:22:24
Speaker
So it is what it is and we'll see if Moe was right on that one. But I'm not as upset about that one.
00:22:33
Speaker
I guess said but you know other deals that he's made I mean it well up two years ago and it was I think it was 19 or excuse me not 19 2020 yeah the only free agents we signed that year were Adam Wainwright and Matt Wieders and made no trades other than some low-level minor league crap
00:23:02
Speaker
Well, outside of the Aruzzerina trade. Aruzzerina for Libertore was the big trade we made. But, you know, that was not a trade that improved the team for the next season. And in some respects, people might say it made the team weaker. 2021, yeah, he brings Aaron Otto in, and nobody's arguing about that trade.
00:23:30
Speaker
But, what's he do after Aeronado? Okay. Well, we signed two free agents, or three free agents. Yeah, Wayne Wright, Molina, which he knew we were gonna sign anyway, and TJ McFarland. But he was signed to a minor league contract. Now, he ended up helping the team, so that's not that bad of a deal.
Steve Matz and Bullpen Role
00:23:56
Speaker
Then, last year, picking up Steve and Matt,
00:23:59
Speaker
Of course, I think if he hadn't got hurt, maybe he would have had a better year. This year, he's horrible as a starter. He's in the bullpen now, not doing that bad. But then you're looking, you're not paying him $44 million to be in the bullpen. I mean, he's not a closer. That's not a place you're going to put a player for $44 million. So I don't know what's going to happen with Matt.
00:24:30
Speaker
And then this year we signed Wilson Contreras and don't do anything else. I mean, it's like he doesn't care.
Defensive Decisions: Contreras vs Murphy
00:24:40
Speaker
There's no urgency to fix the issues. And he just thinks that everybody, you know, oh, be patient. You know, things will change. We'll get this worked out. And, you know, I'm not sure who he's trying to convince us or him. But that's one thing that that's one.
00:25:02
Speaker
So, you know, in the last three years, the only appreciable off-season deal that Mo has made has been Aeronado. The only one that's really done anything was trading for Nolan Aeronado. So, if you've got that kind of a record, you know, how are you going to, how do you not say that he is not part of the problem? How do you not say that? I can't say it.
00:25:28
Speaker
He is part of the problem. He's ignoring the issues Because he thinks he's the smartest man in the room and I just don't think that's the case So Who did they pass up when they got Contreras this year? Oh Sean Murphy, I mean that was the odds when he says I'm gonna go out get the best catcher available
00:25:58
Speaker
or best all-around catcher available. I did not think Wilson Contreras. I mean, he was the last person I would have thought of for best all-around catcher. Good hitter. Man, he's never been known as a defensive specialist behind the plate. But then again, we have been very spoiled in St. Louis and with the likes of Molina behind the plate. And then actually Metheny before him,
00:26:25
Speaker
So you know, we've been very spoiled with good catching and, you know,
00:26:34
Speaker
That's why I don't understand what the rush was to sign Contreras when they still had room to negotiate with Oakland for Sean Murphy. If you look at what was reported, there were two different purports come out. One said Donovan, Newt Barr, Grassifo for Murphy. The other one was Donovan or Newt Barr, Grassifo and somebody else, another minor leaguer, supposedly or presumably.
00:27:04
Speaker
Um, for Murphy, uh, the Cardinals didn't want to do any, either of those deals. So they gave him an options thing. You get two of the four and they threw up Gorman, Yepes, Burleson and Carlson. Uh, the A's said no. Um, you know, and I think Mo thought he could bully him like he did Colorado, but the A's weren't having none of it. They said, no, we'll find another way to get this done.
00:27:34
Speaker
you know they wanted they wanted a little more value for Murphy I think they would have got it had they taken Gorman you see what Gorman has done but you know it is what it is but then they turn and the minute he runs into trouble let's go find Contreras and then the whole thing of oh well he you know what he he really sold us on himself and
00:28:03
Speaker
He really is worried about doing the right things. And he's going to be doing this. And he understands what we're trying to do. And then a month later, they remove him from the catching position. I thought you said everything was fine, Mo. What's this? What are you doing? I don't understand it. So Mo's aloofness is costing the Cardinals in that respect.
Sponsorship Introductions
00:28:33
Speaker
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Speaker
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00:29:28
Speaker
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00:29:52
Speaker
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00:30:22
Speaker
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Manager Ollie Marmol's Strategies
00:30:32
Speaker
So we've identified most shortcomings. Well, what about Ollie? Well, first, I don't know what you guys think, but throwing Tyler O'Neill under the bus for not hustling, which was bogus to me. I saw the play and yeah, he may not have been running full, what some might call full speed, but
00:30:53
Speaker
he had been saying that he was trying you know they've been worrying about him uh... an injury situation and you know he had reportedly you know kind of tweak the hamstring a couple weeks uh... after during the uh... wbc so maybe he was not running and he was trying to protect himself from pulling a hamstring and i can understand that and calling him out publicly like ollie did
00:31:23
Speaker
was stupid, childish, and quite frankly, not what you need to be doing as a major league manager. You know, he should have talked to Tyler and they should have kept it in house. And when that question came up in the conference, in the press conference, all he had to say was, well, I've talked to Tyler and we're handling that internally. End of story, nobody says nothing.
00:31:51
Speaker
But no, he makes this big deal. That's unacceptable and then doubles down by holding him out for a game. You know, now Tyler was the pro and said, yeah, well, you know, I, I didn't really, yeah. Okay. You know, it's not, if I'll, you know, I think he took offense to it, but I mean, you could tell he was not happy with it, but
00:32:16
Speaker
He was at least accepting it. He said, I'll accept what the punishment is. I didn't do what I was supposed to do. Okay, fine. But it kept going on and people kept mentioning it. Ollie kept doubling down on it, you know. And then there's the Wilson Contreras issue, which I mentioned earlier.
00:32:32
Speaker
You know, pitching staff not doing well. Well, Wilson's gonna be benched. We're gonna be using more of DH in the outfield. And then Moe had to walk that back. No, he's not playing the outfield. He's just gonna DH for now and then we'll see what we can do to that. You know, and they ask Ollie about him getting back to catching. Well, not at this time. And then Moe had to walk that back. Well, the object is to get him back behind the plate. Ollie has no idea what he's saying.
00:33:02
Speaker
and even less of an idea how to manage I mean he manages by a spreadsheet he doesn't manage by what's going on on the field he looks at the spreadsheet okay fifth inning I'm supposed to do this and we're supposed to have this and if they have faced this okay I gotta do he doesn't have one clue what he's doing I think the only reason that he did as well last year was because
00:33:32
Speaker
He had a couple old veterans sitting there in Pujols and Molina who said, hey, Ollie, maybe you want to do this. Why don't you try this? Then you look at, he continues to bat Contreras fifth. Contreras is in a horrible slump, but he continues to bat him fifth.
00:33:56
Speaker
saying that you know he doesn't want to hurt or hurt his feelings or whatever and that wasn't the actual word but you know that kill his motivation I guess or something of that nature and I had to think we've already done that you already did that look at after after they removed him from catching and then brought him back and then he had that good week he hasn't done jack's
00:34:27
Speaker
Jack shit since then. And he's hitting less than a buck and he's listening, hitting like a buck and a quarter, something like that in the month of June, maybe even less than that. And yet he's still batting fifth. And you've got Alec Burleson, who is for the years hitting 219. And I don't think he's, he's even hitting that well here in the last few weeks or last couple of three weeks.
00:34:57
Speaker
He's still on the bench. Jordan Walker starts out his career with a 12 game hitting streak. And then Ollie says, well, we need to send him down so he can not hit as many ground balls. Well, they bring him back up because they need to. Guess what? He's still hitting ground balls. And he's got another 11 game hitting streak. And then you look at, again, like I said, you look at another guy they brought up, Mercado.
00:35:27
Speaker
who's a good hitter for the most part, and he's not bad, good defensive player, and he's sitting there on the bench. You bring up Luke and Baker, who's absolutely crushing it in AAA. Leading the league in home runs, RBIs. He plays in four games, he's got four hits in 11 at bats, and now he's sitting on the bench doing nothing.
00:35:57
Speaker
I don't understand how Marmo is considered a good manager by Moselok other than the fact that he's Moselok and I've heard this said by J.D. Haffron of locked on Cardinals and I'm going to agree with J.D. Ollie is their hand-picked man.
00:36:25
Speaker
Ollie is the one that they wanted because he's going to do what they want when it comes to analytics. He's going to follow the answer. That's why Shilt was fired. Shilt got fired because he used Reyes in that playoff game. That was not why he was fired. Mike Shilt was fired because he pushed back.
00:36:55
Speaker
and said, I'm not going total analytics. I'm going to go by what I see, not what the spreadsheet tells me. And then he also made comments during the year, well, I can only play the players I've got. That was a direct shot at most, saying, if you can get me better players, I can win more ballgames. So he was pushing back. That's what got Schilt fired.
00:37:25
Speaker
You know, I'll tell you what, right now I'd rather have Mike Shilt than Holly Marmal, to tell you the honest to God truth. I think Marmal is just doing exactly what John Mosalak wants him to do, what John Mosalak tells him to do, and as long as he does that, Mosalak's not gonna get rid of him. Now, that's not to say that after the year, Bill DeWitt is not gonna go to Moe and say, look,
00:37:55
Speaker
If you want to continue here, we need to change direction. Well, Bill DeWitt will do that and that's not the story. But we'll have to wait and see. But I'm agree with Jay. I don't think we're going to get rid of Marmo any time soon, unless Bill DeWitt fires Mosaillock first.
00:38:19
Speaker
If he does that, brings in a different general manager, then I think you see, well, President of Baseball Operations versus General Manager, then you might see Marmole's job in jeopardy. And his seats gotta be getting warm. And so's Mo's. Both their seats are gotta be hot. And I think Marmole's is hot because of Mo. So, there is that part. So, we've identified
00:38:49
Speaker
The management problem, both front office and field, so we'll look at the players next.
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00:40:15
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Individual Player Performance Critiques
00:40:32
Speaker
Okay, so now after railing on the management side of it, let's look at the players. Do they deserve some blame? Yes, I don't think anybody's gonna say they don't.
00:40:43
Speaker
because look at some of those guys the way they're playing. They're playing like crap. I mean, let's call the spade a spade here. But let's look at the first part of it. Well, I don't see all of it's bad, but not all of it, but a lot of it's bad. But let's look at the most obvious part, which I mentioned with Mo, is the starting pitching. This year, St. Louis has used seven starters.
00:41:07
Speaker
uh... and you know while there haven't been really great stellar efforts you've had some pretty consistent uh... pitching from miles michaels uh... jordan montgomery jack flarity but they've all had their issues i mean montgomery uh... you know he's been lacking from run support and he's three and seven uh... with a three point nine one e r a
00:41:35
Speaker
And they were losing ball games. He was leaving a ball game winning only to have the bullpen blow it. He had a couple of games where I know that he came out of the game. And we were only down by a run, and we couldn't score. The bullpen did their job, but the offense didn't. So Montgomery's been a victim of circumstance.
00:42:03
Speaker
I think, quite frankly, he could have a good lawsuit of non-support if he wanted to push it. Michaelis is pitching fairly well, I mean, up until this last couple of games. Up until this last game with the Mets, he was 4-3 with a 4.02 ERA. Jack Flaherty has pitched fairly well, 3-5, 4.64 ERA. He had some early issues, but he seems to have got everything straightened out in that respect.
00:42:34
Speaker
Um, now Michael is, like I said, he's pitched well, but he had a rough start. I mean, he gave up 15 runs, 16 runs in his first three games, but then he only gave up 15 runs over the next 10 games. So that tells you where he came from. Um, so he's having a pretty decent year, but none of these guys, I mean, you know, Montgomery has probably been the most consistent. He's pitched 14 games. He's gone five plus innings, 12 times.
00:43:02
Speaker
And seven of those times he's gone six or more. Only three times has he been touched for four runs or more, and eight times he's given up two runs or less, and yet he's got a three and seven record. So it's not all the starting pitching.
Adam Wainwright's Transition
00:43:16
Speaker
They've had their issues, like I said, you know, early in the season, Michaelis and Flaherty, neither one looked like they were going to be worth anything. They've all, they've turned it around a little bit. But then you've got an Adam Wainwright, 41 years old. He's pitching like a 41 year old.
00:43:32
Speaker
I hate to say that about Wayno. I love Wayno, but he's not it. At best, Wainwright is a number five starter. I mean, probably if they had other pictures available, I would say Wainwright would be my long relief guy because I just don't think you can trust him as a starter anymore that's going to get you
00:44:03
Speaker
five plus innings or six innings per game. Now he's got 199 wins after a win in New York this weekend. So maybe when he gets that 200th win as a starter, maybe they'll think about moving him to the pin, which I think might be the best idea for him. Steven Matt's been horrible as a starter. I mentioned that earlier. He's picked it up a little bit in the pin. He gave up three runs against Frisco, but
00:44:32
Speaker
For the most part, he's done well, he's done okay in the Henderson and say well. But, you know, he was a starter you were counting on. You don't have him. So now you bring up Libertor. Woodford's been in there. You know, again, and I go back to Moe, these guys are not performing the way you need them to. So why aren't we going out and getting somebody? You know, you can't just keep waiting on these guys to get it all put together.
00:45:03
Speaker
You know, because I, like I said, I don't think, it's not that Monty's pitching bad. It's not that, that Michael is his pitching bad. They're just not top of the order or top of the rotation, excuse me, guys that go out there and get you a steady outing every five days. Um, if they're just not, and you need better than that. I mean, the, I can describe the pitching staff or the rotation.
00:45:33
Speaker
By a quote from Tom Hanks in the in the Forrest Gump movie life is like a box of chocolates You never know what you're going to get and that's true with the starting rotation You don't know from day one to day five what you're going to get out of that rotation You really don't now the bullpen is much the same story. You don't know where to get from them either who to count on I Mean early in this season Hales Lee had some issues Hicks was horrible early in the season
00:45:59
Speaker
Gallegos was hit or miss. About the only two guys that really have been pitching fairly decent have been Drew Verhagen and Chris Stratton. Both of them have fared fairly well. You had a lot of left-handers, and now you've only got one in Cabrera. Well, Matz now is in the bullpen, but Romero's been hurt.
00:46:23
Speaker
one of our better left-handed relievers in Zach Thompson, they sent him to AAA to become a starter. And once he done down there trying to become a starter, he has struggled. So again, this goes back again to the management thing. Mo and Ollie have their head up their ass. They're not using their pictures in the right way.
Cardinals' Bullpen and Management Issues
00:46:47
Speaker
This goes back to again, like I said, he's managing by a spreadsheet instead of by what he sees.
00:46:53
Speaker
He's not letting his eyes do the work for him. Because you can see the starters we've got are not getting it done. And you've got guys that are in the bullpen getting it done. Well, let's go make him a starter like they did with Hicks a couple of years ago. See how that turned out. There are guys on this pitching staff that are relievers. There's guys on the pitching staff that are starters. Why try to make them something they're not?
00:47:23
Speaker
Now, I was very pleased with Hicks this weekend, back-to-back days coming in because of the absence of Halesley, back-to-back days coming in and basically closing the door on the Mets, very impressively. So, you know, maybe he's getting back to form as a back-end guy you can use, but, you know, Palante's had his issues, Cabrera's had his issues.
00:47:54
Speaker
Like I said, I mentioned Stratton and Verhagen. For the most part, they've done well, but even they've given up a couple runs here and there they probably shouldn't have.
00:48:05
Speaker
Then you got Giovanni Gallego, so you know he'll pitch well for three or four games And then you come up in this next thing you know he's giving up a home run and three base hits Just no consistency in that pitching staff. You know hopefully now Gio's had a few good games now in a row now with Hicks having a couple games if they can get Hellsley back and he can come back to form and
00:48:30
Speaker
You've got the makings of pretty good back end. And if they would just give up on the Zach Thompson as a starter thing, bring him back, put him back in the bullpen, I think things would level out very well. But now let's look at the hitting consistency.
00:48:51
Speaker
You know, and, uh, I'm gonna tell you what, oh, hang on. Let me, let me back up one quick second here. I want to, want to make one thing here. Uh, when I was talking to back in, when you look at it, where you have Gallegos who's got 14 saves, um, in 21 and in 20, he's got 28 saves in the last two years. You got Hicks who's been, you know, blowing people away with that hundred and 304 mile an hour fastball.
00:49:19
Speaker
Uh, you know, this, this slider goes in at 95. So yeah, you've, again, you've got that back in making, but you've got to get something that's going to get you between that back end and the starters. So that's either the starters are going to have to go longer. We're going to have to start getting six and seven innings out of starters or.
00:49:42
Speaker
We're gonna, like I said, you're gonna have to bring Thompson up, put him back in the pin. Woodford is in the pin now. So you've got some long relief in there. We'll see how all that works out, so.
Fan Experience Analogy
00:49:51
Speaker
We're gonna get into hitting for a minute. But before that, you know, this whole thing is stressing everybody out. And it's, yeah, I try, when I try to do these podcasts, I try to come up with something that's positive, and it's just been hard lately to try and come up with anything positive. It's in, you know,
00:50:11
Speaker
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00:50:41
Speaker
give brandon or don a call today 573-259-1306 that's 573-259-1306 and tell them Don Glennman talking sports on the bleachers sent you okay the hitting
00:51:00
Speaker
We've got guys that are doing a good job. I mean, Goldsmith has been pretty steady all year. Walker, before he got sent down, was doing well. And now that he's come back, he's doing even better. Donovan's been fairly steady. We had good early hitting from DeYoung and Edmond, Contreras, Gorman. But those guys have started to fall off a little bit. Hopefully Gorman is having a lot of strikeout problems. The last couple of days, he's
00:51:30
Speaker
hit, at least hit the ball and not struck out as much so maybe he's coming back around. Contreras is just lost at the plate. Edmond, he's starting to come around again as well. DeYoung had a good series in New York.
Key Hitters' Performance Reflection
00:51:48
Speaker
But then you got other guys who have been inconsistent. Aronado was horrible in April. Now he's picked it up.
00:51:53
Speaker
He's cracking it out. Newt Barr had off and on, up and down, and now he's hurt. Hopefully he'll be back in a couple days. I think by the London series, he'll be back. Carlson has been up and down, had the wrist injury, or excuse me, the ankle injury. Burleson has just been, I mean, he's, I don't know why he is even still on the club.
00:52:18
Speaker
I have somebody needs to explain that to me why Alec Burleson is still at the Major League level. I mean he's hitting like 194. Get to stay out. No he's hitting 219, 273, 77, 5 Romans and 15 RBIs. And you know you're counting on him as a bench bat. You got Wilson Contreras who's hitting
00:52:49
Speaker
Like I said under 200 and You're thinking he is still a number five hitter Why how give me a break? I don't understand it You know, I guess Jordan Walker's put together a couple of good stints so far I Just I just don't understand
00:53:14
Speaker
These guys can hit. We've all seen it. Contreras is a lifetime 270 hitter. Edmond is a lot better than hitting his 240, I think, is what he's at right now. At Aeronado, he's finally picked it up after, like I said, a horrible April. He hit only at 239 in April. Carlson, he's only hitting in the 240s, but he's
00:53:44
Speaker
still a couple weeks off of that injury so maybe he's gonna start getting better and he had a couple good hits in the Mets series so you know maybe that's gonna turn it around Tyler O'Neill is on the 68 day IL who knows what's gonna happen with him
00:53:59
Speaker
So the hitting's been an issue. Now maybe some of it's gonna come around, maybe this Mets series where they were able to get some runs and add on and fight back and get the hits when they needed.
Impact of Coaching Changes
00:54:10
Speaker
Maybe that's gonna turn this around. But I don't think anybody, at least nobody's blaming Tyler Ward yet like they did Jeff Albert. I mean, Jeff Albert was the whipping boy for a few years here. I think we've realized that it wasn't Jeff Albert.
00:54:28
Speaker
you know that it was the players that there's something going on uh... but to have this many guys go south so to speak uh... i don't know what the interest i don't think anybody does i mean you know by all accounts guys are putting in time at the plate you know and they are at the uh... in the batting cage uh...
00:54:49
Speaker
you know extra time and then the aeronautos work his tail off to get back his hitting stroke back hopefully the new bar comes back he had a good game for memphis uh... the other day uh... so maybe he comes back he's going to get back into into the shape because what this team needs is missing or what they're missing i should say is like i said they're missing a consistency at the top of the lineup uh... that's why you got goldie batting second which i don't think he needs i think goldie needs to be batting third i think gorman needs to be batting fifth
00:55:18
Speaker
I think Contreras needs to be batting eight. You know, maybe when Newt Barr gets back, we'll see a Newt Barr, Donovan, Goldschmidt, Aeronado, Gorman lineup with Walker batting six. I think that'd be perfect to me, but, you know, again, we have the Ali managed by numbers system, so who knows what's gonna happen.
Gateway City Sports Promotion
00:55:38
Speaker
Oh, so my final conclusion I'll tell you about in a second. You say you need to find a place with sports news and opinions on St. Louis area sports. I got a spot for you. Head over to GatewayCitySports.com. At GatewayCitySports.com, you can find news and articles about the Cardinals, the Blues, Missouri Tigers, the Illinois Fighting Alliance, and even some high school sports. You'll find articles and content from guys like Russ Robinson, Brian Swope, Gene Bonds, Derek King, even I read an article or two.
00:56:08
Speaker
You want more podcasts, then check out our lineup for those people who may have a Cub fan in a family or a neighbor to Cub fan. Hey, invite them over for a couple of brewskis.
00:56:19
Speaker
Listen to the team of rivals with Ron Nuddle, Pete Geddes and Elliot Dewey. If you prefer Cardinal talk with some interesting guests, then give a listen to That's a Winner with Ryan Jenkins and Josh Brown. If there's not enough Cardinal content, then check out that two for three with a mighty moose, Mike Stevenson. And back by popular demand is the often imitated, never duplicated, Derek King sports show with the man himself, Derek King.
00:56:47
Speaker
So head on over to GatewayCitySports.com. Look us over and always, if there's a sport you follow and we don't cover it, drop us a line. We'll see what we can do for you. That's GatewayCitySports.com.
Systemic Issues and Need for Change
00:57:01
Speaker
Okay, so my final thoughts. So what's wrong with the Cardinals? Well, multiple issues. A front office that does not recognize the shortcomings and shows no urgency to try to fix them. They don't. They prefer building a team that can and should
00:57:17
Speaker
compete for a and dominate the central division then they take their chances in the playoffs they don't build a team for the postseason they build a team to get to the postseason as Mo has said before then you take your chances that's not the way you win a championship okay manager well
00:57:37
Speaker
It seems that more times he's using a spreadsheet than what's going on on the field. I mean, I saw I saw a really interesting meme the other day of or a gif, however you want to call it, of Ali Marmal. And obviously he was looking at a spreadsheet or some kind of detail book, the analytic book they use. But somebody had taken and photoshopped in managing for dummies.
00:58:07
Speaker
Because that's what it looks like. You have an inexperienced pitching coach, inexperienced bench coach, Turner Ward, he's got some experience as a hitting coach, but you've got three guys there that are fairly inexperienced at their jobs. Dusty Blake has never been a pitching coach for anybody other than Duke University.
00:58:37
Speaker
And then you how Ollie has handled the whole O'Neill situation, the Contreras situation. And I said, not a lot of it. I mean, I shouldn't say a lot of it, but there's some of it. You know, you can't blame on Ollie because just like Shilt before him, and in some respects, Matheny, Moe's not giving him the right players to do anything with. And if you don't have the right players, I don't care how you manage, but his management style is just not that great.
00:59:07
Speaker
Now the players, Goldschmidt, Arenado, Wainwright came out publicly stated that the issue belongs with them. And I'm not saying they're wrong because they're right. I mean, they're the ultimate ones doing the job on the field or not doing the job in this case. So what happens? How do we do this? Well, I know one thing, the fans are sick.
00:59:34
Speaker
Tired of hearing the word patience We have to be patient. You got to give us time. We need to be I just asked our fans if they'll be patient with us We're tired of hearing the patience part The time for patience is over Okay, you know you've got just a little over 90 games left in this season if you want to get to a winning record You've got a win
01:00:04
Speaker
at least 60 of those games or close to 60 of those games. You're going to have to play 600 ball or 650 ball the rest of the year and you haven't proven you can do it because you're not paying attention to the players or what you need I should say in the players.
01:00:26
Speaker
A lot of people want to see Marmo fired and I'll go over it again. I don't think he's going to get the axe unless Mo gets the axe first or unless Bill DeWitt says, okay, we're going a different direction and we're going to start now. I don't know if that's going to happen.
01:00:43
Speaker
Well, I mean I would doubt as long as you got three million fans going into the ballpark bill to which discounting his money I Mean don't get me wrong. He would like a winner. He would like another championship in st. Louis But as long as he's making money, he doesn't it's not it's not the ultimate priority for him at this point
Conclusion and Future Plans
01:01:08
Speaker
So I think my next podcast, I'm going to look more into moves they can make, players they can get, things like that. I hope to get Russ on here sometime in this next month. We'll do a little recruiting, a little more recruiting talk.
01:01:22
Speaker
So that's going to do it for me today. Don't forget to check out Liquid IV and remember the promo code GCS at checkout on liquidiv.com or using my special link zen.ai slash talking sports on the bleachers and get 20% off at liquidiv.com.
01:01:43
Speaker
Also, don't forget to check out GatewayCitiesForce.com. And if you've enjoyed this podcast, tell your friends we can be found on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, anywhere you get your podcasts. Or go to GatewayCitiesForce.com, you can find me there. If you want to make a comment, ask a question, hit me up on Twitter, at T-S-O-T-B-G-C-S. I'm probably going to have a Facebook page coming soon for the show, so be looking out for that. So until next time!
01:02:11
Speaker
Have fun, play safe, and we will see you again when we're talking sports on the bleachers. Bye now. Thanks again for joining us, and you have been listening to Talking Sports on the Bleachers. Here's hoping you have a great sports day.
01:02:36
Speaker
So,