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The 2012 Apocalypse - Andrew Kinkella - Aliens 63
485 Plays4 months ago
oday, we dive into a topic that captivated the world's imagination: the so-called apocalypse of 2012, which was supposedly foretold by the Mayan calendar. This phenomenon sparked a frenzy of movies, books, and even TV specials, with many experts cashing in on the hysteria.
Joining us in this episode is Professor Andrew Kinkella, not only the host of the Pseudo Archaeology podcast but also a seasoned expert on Maya history and archaeology. Together, we will explore how the year 2012 became a fixture in pop culture and examine the pseudo archaeological interpretations that have shaped our understanding of the Mayan civilization. We'll delve into the historical and cultural contexts of the Mesoamerican calendars and debunk some of the myths surrounding them.
Special thanks to our Patreon supporters and members portal subscribers, whose contributions enrich our exploration of these mysterious topics. Your support keeps our investigations thorough and grounded.
As always, you can find additional resources, source citations, and contact information on our website at diggingupancientaliens.com. If you enjoy the podcast, please consider leaving us a five-star review—it really helps!
In "Digging Up Ancient Aliens," we explore the fascinating intersections of alternative history, archaeology, and the claims surrounding ancient alien theories in popular media. I'm your host, Fredrik, guiding you through the world of pseudo-archaeology.
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The intro music is Lily of the woods by Sandra Marteleur, and the outro is named “Folie hatt” by Trallskruv.
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Transcript
Introduction and Theme
00:00:00
Speaker
You're listening to the Archaeology Podcast Network.
00:00:18
Speaker
Welcome to Digging up Ancient Aliens. This is the podcast where we examine strange claims about alternative history and ancient aliens in popular media. Do their claims hold water to an archaeologist or are there better explanations out there?
2012 Apocalypse and Maya Calendar
00:00:33
Speaker
We are now on episode 63. I am Fredrik, your guide into the world of pseudo-archaeology. And this time we will look at the apocalypse that never happened.
00:00:44
Speaker
the end of the Mayan calendar in 2012, a end date that have spawned movies, books, TV episodes and, well, people making a living lecturing on it. But December 2012 came and went with no apocalypse in sight.
00:01:03
Speaker
With me today I have Professor Andrew King Keller, host of the pseudo-archaeological podcast, but also expert on the Maya, and we will try to figure out where this pop culture icon had its origin.
00:01:19
Speaker
We will look at the pseudo-archaeological history of Maya studies and the calendars of Mesoamerica. We also have some clips from the ancient alien special the Doomsday Prophecies.
Guest Introduction and Expertise
00:01:35
Speaker
And as usual, you'll find reading suggestions and sources on the website, diggingupangerylands.com. I also want to thank all of you who support the show through financial means. It's really helped the upkeep of the show, and I'm extremely grateful for your help and support. So thank you very much, my patrons out there. And if you want to help out, I'll tell you where to go later in the episode.
00:02:03
Speaker
Now that we have finished our preparation, let's dig into it. So I'd like to welcome a, well, returning guest, Dr. Andrew Kinkela, or Professor Kinkela at Santura County Community College in California. He has written several papers on Cenotes and their ritual use in the Cara Blanca region in Belize,
00:02:31
Speaker
He's a diver and he hosts Kinchella Teacher's Archaeology, the pseudo-archaeological podcast CRM Archaeology and was recently seen in Wired answering questions from people from Twitter or X or whatever it's called right now. Welcome back Andrew!
00:02:49
Speaker
Hey, Frederick, it's so nice to be here and thank you for listing every part of my media empire. So it's again, it's just great. It's great to be back. It's fun to talk about these kind of things. And it's it's just nice to discuss this with a kindred spirit. Yeah, it's all suffering is always better than several doing it.
Teaching During 2012 Hysteria
00:03:16
Speaker
Well, this is going to air in May and therefore we talk about the Maya and in the previous episode we discussed general history and pseudoscience regarding the Mayan. Today we will focus more on the 2012 apocalypse that
00:03:33
Speaker
came and went and the Maya calendar. You were teaching in 2012, right? I was. So I was teaching in 2012 until the Earth ended, you know, and I died along with everyone else. And that was that was a tough day. That was a tough day back in 2012. It was, well, a bit surprising. Did you get a lot of questions from students regarding 2012?
00:03:58
Speaker
Oh my God, you know, it's just like that whole year. I got questions from everyone, which I don't mind. You know, I enjoy talking about this stuff. I'll if a hundred different people asked me about 2012, I'll answer kindly and take time because I do find
00:04:17
Speaker
One thing that a lot of professional archaeologists do is they they're just too harsh on that stuff. You know, when if somebody asked, oh, hey, did the Maya think that the earth was going to end? They'll be like, of course not. What's wrong with you for thinking that? And I hate that attitude. You know, you have to be open and honest and understand, as we both know,
00:04:42
Speaker
That there's so much pseudo archaeology out there that it's hard for the general public to actually know what's going on And you know people really just want to know the truth They're asking in honesty, you know that they just want to know and they know that it's like somebody from like me Who's it not only an archaeologist but a Mayanist? I'm the guy to ask, you know, and I and I Take that seriously and it makes me feel good, you know when people ask so the answer to your question is good God Yes in 2012
Maya Calendar Explanation
00:05:10
Speaker
I mean, not a week went by, you know, where people were like, hey, I know that you work in Belize, you work on the Cenotes, you know, what do you know about 2012? What's the deal? And I would tell them, you know, the short answer is that no, the Maya didn't think that the world was going to end in 2012.
00:05:30
Speaker
It's just that that moment, being December 21st, 2012, was the end of the biggest cycle in the Maya calendar. Because the Maya calendar just works on cycles within cycles, right? And the biggest one is a 400-year cycle. So that 400-year cycle was indeed ending. But of course, just like our calendar, where 1999 became 2000, a new millennium,
00:05:58
Speaker
We didn't die like Frederick, you know, I'm pretty sure on the morning of January 1st, you didn't wake up to the cinder that was once the earth. You know, we didn't explode. Same thing with the Maya calendar. It was just the beginning of a new 400 year cycle. And it really is that simple. But this
00:06:18
Speaker
Because it's just a big number ending thing, people have added meaning to it that was never there in the first place. And if you do a deep dive in this in this world, you find that a lot of that meeting was really added in the last hundred years by like movies and TV and pseudo archaeological stories and stuff that the Maya have nothing to do with. They were just counting their time. You know, they were just using a calendar.
Atlantis Theories and Maya History
00:06:47
Speaker
Exactly, but did you have any students who used it as an excuse to not turn in any papers?
00:06:55
Speaker
of man, I would have if they asked, I might have allowed it just because it was so hilarious. But unfortunately, since it was December 21st, school's already out. You know what I mean? I just by that point, I've just finished the semester. So I got them. I forced them to do their final before the end of the world. You know, because that's the kind of professor I am. That's a bit mean. You should have saved it too. I know. I know. But that's who I am. I am a cruel, heartless professor.
00:07:24
Speaker
And you weren't nervous, you know, feeling the bathtub on December 21st just in case. I want to lie and say yes, but no, my favorite side story to this, though, is.
00:07:38
Speaker
that it took Maya archaeologists a long time to match the ancient Maya calendar to our calendar. Right. So so that we could actually know what day the Maya we're talking about corresponded with our calendar. Right. It took a while. It took some calculations and to understand that, oh, the Maya world, the
00:08:03
Speaker
400 year cycle is going to indeed end on our equivalent of December 21st, 2012, right? There was a small group of people who thought that it was two days different, that the correlation was like two days different, and that would have actually made it December 23rd.
00:08:21
Speaker
And I thought the funny thing would be is if nothing happened on December 21st, 2012, and everyone relaxed and went, ah, yeah, what a bunch of BS. That never would have happened. And then the Earth exploded on the 23rd. But alas, neither happened.
00:08:39
Speaker
neither happened. But what's interesting about the Maya and this idea that the world would end and the prophecy is that almost from the beginning it started to come, not that the world would end by the Maya account, but the thing it was Columbus who started to connect the discovery with America with prophecy and
Cenotes and Maya Rituals
00:09:04
Speaker
he started to write a book
00:09:07
Speaker
suspecting that they would, this second coming on visas and all of that and that Maya would help take back Jerusalem for Queen Isabel of Spain and you know all of that. So from the beginning we start to see these prophecies and ideas and Atlantis, our favorite topic.
00:09:33
Speaker
And one of those who maybe contribute quite a bit is Le Plonjon that you're quite familiar with. Yeah.
00:09:45
Speaker
How much can we blame him for the prophecies and the Atlantis, Maya? Okay, so there's a lot of blame. This gets really complicated. On my own podcast, what's funny, one of the ones I do is the pseudo-archaeology podcast. And kind of like you, I just talk alone, just myself, and I just do my own show.
00:10:08
Speaker
And you would think on the pseudo archaeology podcast that I would do Atlantis like right away, you know, because it's like one of the it's the one that always comes up. It's definitely top three. Right. I didn't do it, man. Frederick, I didn't do it for like two years. I just did it recently
Critique of Ancient Aliens
00:10:22
Speaker
because there's so much to it, as I'm sure you've experienced. There's so many layers.
00:10:29
Speaker
to the BS story that is ultimately Atlantis. And so I felt that it was my job to take the layers away one at a time to explain it to people. And I was like, man, this is complicated. So actually, there's so much to it. And again, the short answer is Plato makes it up originally. But then it just gets re-upped because the story is so interesting. Nobody cared about Plato's point in making up Atlantis. He had a philosophical point.
00:10:57
Speaker
You know, to be like, oh, what's good and what's bad? And, you know, how should human beings acquit themselves while they're on Earth? All these deep philosophical points. But as he told the story of Atlantis just to show, you know, just to make kind of make a point, everyone listening was like, yeah, we don't give a crap about your philosophical stuff.
00:11:18
Speaker
Where's that Atlantis place you were talking about? That place sounds cool. And he's like, no, no, no, no, I'm just trying to make up. And they didn't even listen because he was too good at making up his story. And so because the story is so good, it just lives and it lives and it lives and it lives, as you know, dude, you and I know this better than just about anyone else. It never ends. But so there's this layering. So after Plato's gone, there's other people
00:11:43
Speaker
one of whom, as you bring up, is Augustus Le Plonjon. I don't want to blame Le Plonjon too much. I give him a little blame, because there's actually more blame for a couple people later, like Ignatius Donnelly. I would give Ignatius Donnelly more blame than Le Plonjon, but here's Le Plonjon's deal.
00:12:03
Speaker
And honestly, I always get Le Plungeon mixed up with Brassiere de Bourbon because both of these guys come at around the same time and they kind of do the same thing. And what I mean by that is we'll take Le Plungeon as an example. Early in his career, so Le Plungeon is an interesting guy. He's a smart guy and he kind of takes
00:12:28
Speaker
It takes history in the past seriously, right? He ends up doing real work in the Maya area. He uncovers some things. And of course, this is in the 1800s. So I'm not here to say he does excellent archaeology, because he doesn't. But you give him half a pass, because this is very early days. So what he was doing was sort of half a step away from
Genuine vs Pseudo-Archaeology
00:12:53
Speaker
looting. But he wasn't there just to like,
00:12:56
Speaker
steal a bunch of artifacts or something. He really did want to learn about the ancient Maya past from these artifacts he's seen, because again, he's there. He's there in southern Mexico. He's there in Belize. He's there in Guatemala. Right. He's he's doing all the all this like real stuff. And so I really appreciate that he he and his wife actually had first person experience with these things. Right. And really trying to make sense of the past.
00:13:24
Speaker
And he actually did one or two things that are really worthwhile, even now, like that. That was the beginnings of photography. And he took some photographs in like, you know, 1880s and this kind of thing that are really worthwhile now because some of the things he took photos of aren't in nearly as good a shape now as they were in like 1879.
00:13:44
Speaker
You know, so I got to give the guy credit for at least bringing a camera down. Do you want to take a camera down to the Yucatan in like 1879? Oh, my God. You know, that's heavy. Yeah. Yeah. Heavy. You have to be so careful with it, you know, to make sure it doesn't break. And oh, my God, just dealing with the negatives and stuff, you know, like real difficult. So he took some photos that are like, hey, thanks, Leplon, John. These photos are awesome. But but.
00:14:14
Speaker
with all his good work, he then used it to say, and that's why this is related to Atlantis. And you're like, oh, damn it. You know, because it's just all like real work and then a foolish, foolish ending to it. So and you know, the true thing I blame them for is that
00:14:41
Speaker
He, it's OK to be wrong, you know, at first, but other scientists of the day started to critique him and be like, hey, Lépland Jean, you're kind of wrong with the whole Atlantis thing. The part that I really critique him for is he doubled down on the Atlantis thing. And then he just started writing these like fantasy books. Basically, what would he fantasy books today? Right. But saying that they're true and he he made up, I forget, it was like
00:15:10
Speaker
King Choc Mool and Queen Moo or something. He just made up, you know, he made up these names. He made up these like characters. It sounds very much like, you know, like a Marvel movie or something. But that's. Yeah, I blame him for not taking the criticism.
00:15:26
Speaker
and just doubling down on his foolishness. But his original work. So he's one of those funny in between guys. You know, not like Ignatius Donnelly, who comes later. Ignatius Donnelly is just totally full of it. Ignatius Donnelly never went to the Maya area or anything. He just made up some stuff. So again, I blame I blame Ignatius Donnelly more. Yeah. And Helena Blavatsky. But yeah. Oh, right. Yeah.
00:15:49
Speaker
But Planion was not the only archaeologist of the time taking Atlantis for real. We have, for example, what's his name, Edward Herbert Thomsom, also a 19th century archaeologist. But he suggested that Atlantis was, well, not a myth, but also located in the Cenotes in the Maya region. I think it's the Puk region.
00:16:18
Speaker
Yep. And I know that you are an expert on Cenotes. Do we find Atlantis down there or what role did they feel in the Maya society? It's good I've come here, Frederick, to this podcast because, yes, I'm here to announce that Atlantis is indeed
00:16:39
Speaker
in the bottom of the cenotes in the Maya region. Edward Thompson, and for anyone listening who's into the Maya stuff, there's actually two Thompsons, two famous Thompson archaeologists. There's Jay Eric Thompson, who comes a bit later. It's kind of a famous British
00:17:00
Speaker
archaeologists who work in the Maya area said, don't mix up don't mix up your Thompson's class. That's what I always always tell them. Don't mix up the Thompson's. The earlier one is Herbert Thompson. And he's going to be working, especially in the sacred cenote of Chichen Itza. And that's right in the beginning of the 20th century, you know, like 1905, 1910, right there pre World War One.
00:17:25
Speaker
Herbert, Herbert Thompson, Edward. I think it's Edward Herbert Thompson. It has has a bit of the same. I give him a bit of the same of a half pass as Le Plunge on because he's got this funny story where
00:17:41
Speaker
He he has these kind of wild ideas, but on the flip side, he's the first person to dredge the sacred cenote. So now we wouldn't do that today because it would ruin like the stratigraphy under at the bottom of the cenote and that kind of stuff. But the stuff he found so and meaning by dredge, right? He literally takes this like
00:18:06
Speaker
huge bucket and goes down in the water. And the sacred cenote is like 40 feet deep or so. But but there's a bunch of air before you get to the water. Right. It's a long way down to that. That big cenote is like this big sinkhole. And there's kind of water at the bottom.
00:18:22
Speaker
So the water itself is like 40 feet deep. And he had this whole bucket dredge thing that took a lot of time and effort and money to build, right? This sort of crane thing that goes over the cenote and then this bucket dredge that goes down. And as he dredged that area, he did find a ton of really interesting, really rare Maya artifacts. And of course they're so interesting and rare because they've been preserved in the water. And so you get things like,
Media's Role in Pseudo-Archaeology
00:18:50
Speaker
like a solid rubber ball, like an actual Maya rubber ball used to play the ball game. You know, made out of rubber. You're never gonna get that on an on-ground site. So he does find all this interesting stuff, and he does move Maya archeology a little forward with that. God, give him that. But then at the same time, same idea as Le Plungeon. Hey, I found all these great artifacts, and I'm trying to explain the Maya, and therefore that's why Atlantis is down here. Oh, damn.
00:19:20
Speaker
You know, two for two. But what was the function of the cenotes? Okay, so the cenotes themselves, the real aspect of them is that they were places where the Maya would go to perform rituals in order for the rain to come. Now,
00:19:42
Speaker
You want rain because rain brings you crops and of those crops you get corn in
Gobekli Tepe Misconceptions
00:19:50
Speaker
the Maya world when in doubt everything's about corn at like sort of the basis of everything like you have the corn god is one of the main gods in in Maya mythology human beings were originally made by the gods out of
00:20:07
Speaker
corn, right, as I say to my students, when in doubt, if you're taking a class on the ancient Maya, the answer is always corn, right, underneath it all. So that's what the Maya are doing at cenotes. They're basically doing rituals for the rain to come. So the rain comes down and makes the corn grow, right? Not every cenote is
00:20:30
Speaker
a kind of a ritual site. Some cenotes are just there for water. Some cenotes, you know, the farmers would just use for water and that's fine. But some of them you you do find really good evidence for ritual. A lot of times I have a little tiny building on the side, which is kind of this like water ritual platform. The sacred cenote where Thompson worked that has one of those little buildings like this water shrine and some of the places I've worked had that too and some don't.
00:20:59
Speaker
So we have talked a little bit about Mayan calendar already, but let's see how ancient aliens deal with it in their show. Oh, I can't wait. I prepared a couple of clips. So I have a clip here dealing with the Mayan calendar.
00:21:22
Speaker
It is a true thing to say about the Maya that they created the most elaborate calendar system of any culture in the world. They had a solar calendar, but before that they had the sacred calendar.
00:21:35
Speaker
When you look at the ratio between those two, you get 365.2422 days for an actual
Maya and Aztec Calendar Comparison
00:21:44
Speaker
year. The atomic clock says that it's 365.2420, but they admit that at the fourth decimal point, they could be plus or minus five wrong. So, we're not sure who's more accurate. Is it the Maya or is it the atomic clock?
00:22:04
Speaker
What do you feel about this statement?
00:22:08
Speaker
All right, so this is one of those things, man. You can hear my voice is a little bit lower. It's depressing because it's just a stupid waste of time. That little minute that we both experienced, we're never gonna get that back, Frederick. That's gone. And so what that is, and it's so funny, just watching that, it wasn't even a minute, 38 seconds or whatever it is,
00:22:36
Speaker
It's like there's the problem with modern pseudo archaeology or just pseudo archaeology in general. You know, it's just a gobbledygook bunch of BS that where they where they do what, of course, we call cherry picking where they take one or two little
Simplistic Narratives of Pseudo-Archaeology
00:22:52
Speaker
facts.
00:22:53
Speaker
you know, from a little fact from here, a little fact from here, but then they blend it into this mix of nothingness. Like that whole 365.242, I'm like, what? And then you do have, so the reality of this is the Maya actually have, and as always,
00:23:11
Speaker
Oh, it's just it's just this bumps me out. As always, the reality, the real story of the ancient Maya calendar is much more fascinating than the B.S. we just watched. Right. The true story is the Maya have three calendars going at the same time. They have the two 60 day calendar, which is basically like an almanac. It's very ritual. You know, it's like, oh, you're born on this day and the two 60 day calendar. That means you're this kind of person. Right. Very sort of.
00:23:40
Speaker
into belief and mythology then they do have a 365 day calendar but it just counts normally 365 although they do their months different than us they split it up a bit differently which if you think of it it doesn't matter how many or few months you have out of a year you just have to land on
Conclusion and Future Episodes
00:23:58
Speaker
365 you know so they just have a different way of
00:24:01
Speaker
landing on 365, and then they have the long count, which is simply a count of the days since what they define as the beginning of time or the beginning of people, which is in 3114 BC. I want to say it's August 17th. I wrote it down somewhere.
00:24:22
Speaker
Oh no, August 13th, August 13th, 3114 BC. That is what they see as like day one. And so the long count calendar is simply again, a count from that day. Like it's the equivalent of saying, today is today 1,256,459 since the beginning of time. Tomorrow will be day 1,256,430 since the beginning of time, right? You get, that's what it is. And that's actually what makes the long count so great.
00:24:51
Speaker
Um, because we as archaeologists can match our calendar to that, like the long count is what we use, um, in order to figure out, Oh, they meant December 31st, 2012. Right. So the Maya have this fascinating, multiple calendars going on at the same time. Um,
00:25:09
Speaker
You see how important the measurement of time was for them. And that's so great. But then you have this like empty show that is just gobbledygook mishmash where it's like, oh, they are more precise than an atomic calendar. No, they're not. It has nothing. It's just a dumb story made to like fill in TV time and confuse everyone.
00:25:33
Speaker
Yeah, because as far as now, I'm not a Mayanist at all, but as far as I understand, the Maya did not have the leap year. So the 365 cannon would get out of whack and the priest would have to repair it by, you know, making adjustments to the calendar to get it back into place. Sure. But you can also think that, like how I just explained the long count, the long count doesn't care about leap years or anything. It's just the count of the days. You know what I mean?
00:26:03
Speaker
Every time as long as you don't forget the date is like the weekdays is a very accurate calendar as long as you Remember Tuesday comes after Wednesday and yep, all of that And that again the long count they also
00:26:18
Speaker
trace it in a cyclical way, you know, because they they're counting their numbering system is base 20. So they go ones, twenties, four hundreds, eight thousands. And so you sort of have cycles, cycles like that. The eight thousand cycle, they don't they don't use in the calendar because it's too big. But but they would if if you know, if for some reason you needed that many.
00:26:39
Speaker
But the base in my number is 20, as you say, but why does the calendar start at 13? Oh, yeah. Yeah. And why would it end at 13? Because yeah, sorry, I thought you were asking me something quite slightly different. Yeah. Yeah. Why is it? Oh, well, 13. Sorry, man. We only got 13. Sorry. Oops. Yeah. We just decided as a culture to only have 13 of these.
00:27:06
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's it doesn't it just doesn't make any sense.
00:27:12
Speaker
You know, where the, where again, looking at the Maya calendar, just sort of scientifically and, and straightforwardly, it's obvious. It just keeps going again, just like ours. It would be the same as saying, well, you only get until the year 2000. Sorry, man. Sorry. We don't, we don't, we don't move the number in the thousands place from a one to a two. Actually you just get until December 31st, 1999. Sorry, man. That's it. No more numbers. You know, of course not.
00:27:39
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's Mark Van Stone, who is quite famous, my anologist, who talked about inscription in the Temple of Inscription that's about 4,000 years in the future, but it goes 1.0.0.0.0.8. So he said, yes, that it actually would go to 19.
00:28:06
Speaker
and then count further so the 13 would not be the end of time but just time of that cycle and then just bump up one on the notch
00:28:19
Speaker
Right. One over. Yeah, it's sad. The bummer part is we as archaeologists have to keep going. No, you can go more than 13 because the other side, the pseudo archaeology side just keeps going. But what if, what if? And on top of it all, can't we just go like, hey, everyone's still alive? Nothing happened.
00:28:44
Speaker
You know? But it's a new time, you see, Andrew.
00:28:50
Speaker
It's a new age. You know, I'm growing a third eye now that I didn't have before and I can see. Oh, thank you. This new age of enlightenment. What is that? They always throw that in. It's just this weird thing. All of them do it. You know, since the last several hundred years of pseudo archaeology, it's always this like new age is coming and the old age is bad. It's like, I don't know. The current age is pretty good.
00:29:20
Speaker
But Andrew, you have to see the evidence for how we know that it would end in 2012. Do I? In my opinion, the one and only clear reference to the date in the long count that arrives in 2012 is on Tortugero Monument 6. Basically, the inscription in Tortugero was half destroyed.
00:29:45
Speaker
And everybody assumed that what it was saying was that the nine gods would return on December 21st, 2012. But because there was some destruction on that inscription, certain things were implied.
00:29:58
Speaker
My favorite parts of the music. It's designed to get you excited and awake. But I have a bonus part of this from your friend Erich van Daniken who has some additional info.
00:30:19
Speaker
He seems to be buffering, though. It's because he's communing with the other astral plane. Some scholars believe that the eroded glyphs on Monument 6 suggest that Bolon-Yakti, a god similar to Kukulkan, will return at the end of the Mayan calendar. The Maya specialists can read it, will descend from heaven. God Bolon-Yakti.
00:30:49
Speaker
Bologna Jokte was one of the Maya gods who was present with the creation of man. So they say, will they send God Bologna Jokte? So some gods, some extraterrestrials, were expected to return. And definitely some of the gods will return. There's absolutely no doubt. Who was this Bologna Jokte?
00:31:17
Speaker
According to the documents that have survived, and they're only fragmentary, he was always described as someone with great powers who had the capacity of flight and who had incredible knowledge about the universe. It took a little bit extra there, but yeah.
00:31:44
Speaker
You know, you know, Frederick, why do I come here? Why do I come on this show with you? OK, you really you really know just where to hit me. You know, you just you're like you just reach right in. This is like.
00:31:59
Speaker
This is Indiana Jones, you know, you're just reaching right in, you just grab my heart like right out of there and then light it on fire. Like, that's what this is for me watching this stuff, because like, again, it makes me sad, just like the previous one, because it's like just, it's just a mix. Like, just take, just pick some miscellaneous facts on the Maya and just put them in a blender.
00:32:25
Speaker
And then just blend it up and then just drink it. Like it doesn't it's senseless. Like I don't even know where to start. I'm like, uh, you know, I can't really. This is one of the harder parts, as I'm sure you've experienced in arguing back against pseudo archaeology and pseudoscience that it's so nonsensical that I don't know how to where to start or what to say, except like that's nonsensical and has nothing to do with anything. Like they just.
00:32:55
Speaker
They make this thing out of out of this like Boland, Yachtai God or whatever, which is completely. It's not like that's not a major God in the Maya pantheon and they kind of they're taking other characteristics from other gods and sort of shoving them in there. And then they're sort of selling it to you because.
00:33:14
Speaker
They're just trying to make a point. They're just trying to create a story, right? And then I find just the pure difference between people like you and I and them. We're here to talk about facts and use facts to tell the story of the past as factually as they can. They start with a story, right, that they need to tell, that they want to tell, and then they just pull, they just cherry pick miscellaneous stuff and they throw it in there.
00:33:40
Speaker
That that last bit was nonsensical. I'm like, like, like there. Yes, there is a Stella that has that on there. Yes, I've heard of that stuff before. But all the rest, it's like, no, just no, just no. You know, it doesn't make things do anything. They're they're in there. They did talk about a couple of things that are that are pretty common on a lot of my Estella, like they'll talk about
00:34:10
Speaker
Certain accession dates. That's where that's where like a like a like a young man becomes a king or something the day that they sort of accession to the throne. OK, yeah, that's real. You know, the Maya talk about that a lot. But there's never this extra of like and then he had wings and flew into space like what that I can't even off the top of my head.
00:34:35
Speaker
I can't think of a single Maya script that refers specifically like wings and flying or something. I don't know. There's there's symbolic stuff like when the Maya Lord dies, he goes up the basically up the Milky Way in a canoe. So there's this sort of idea of entering the water. Like if you hear that a Maya Lord has entered the water or entered the road,
00:35:01
Speaker
That doesn't mean that they went swimming or went driving. That means they died because they're on this like mythic journey up to the world of the sky. Right. And it's it's doubly sad, too, because real Maya mythology is fascinating. Like the story of the hero twins. And again, the story of what the how the Maya Lord goes to this world of the sky. What is the world of the sky versus what is Shabbal the underworld and
00:35:29
Speaker
you know, the trials of Shabbal, all this. I love mythology, you know, and that. But that's real mythology, real Maya mythology, you know, not this just pastiche of weirdness that they that the pseudo archaeology world does. They just slap this stuff together. I'm like, OK, wait, your point is that what is it that the that Amaya
00:35:51
Speaker
I guess a Maya god who's also a lord, like, went into space, I guess? Yeah, I think that's the idea, but I've looked up several translations later, and they seem to not agree on really what the god is. It seems to be Bologna of Thea, many strides, nine lords.
00:36:16
Speaker
So there seems to be disagreement. What's what's that? Like, again, you're talking to somebody who's a Maya archaeologist who's heard this stuff for decades, you know, and and just who has a real interest in it. Like, I enjoy hearing the real Maya myths, you know, and I enjoy hearing them told well. But this has the whole bull on the octet thing. I that's another thing that I get in the pseudo archaeology world. They list some weird like
00:36:46
Speaker
second string or God that they've actually kind of almost made up because they've pushed together a couple of things like like I don't know. I the only time I've ever heard heard belong. Yachtay is in this stuff like I've I've never dealt with it or heard about it in normal. Good old Maya archaeology. We're dealing with the real Maya gods like shock, which is the rain god or the corn god, the big, the heavy hitters that are in all the mythology, not some
00:37:15
Speaker
You know, if if you're going to have a Maya God fly to the stars, isn't it going to be chalk, the rain god who's in the sky already? Does he has a shorter trip?
00:37:25
Speaker
Yeah, you could think about it. But the Maya lords, if I'm not mistaken, tended to dress up as the different gods and ceremonies. Oh, yeah, that's true. Like that's fair that they would take aspects of certain gods depending on what the point they wanted to get across. You know, like if if you're a Maya lord and you want to show to your city that
00:37:51
Speaker
You've done the correct amount of ritual to get the rain to come. You might impersonate or bring into yourself like the rain god Chuck, you know, or this this kind of thing and use symbolism of water like water lilies and fish, you know, this kind of stuff.
00:38:08
Speaker
Sure. And that makes much more sense, right? It's not this weird. Yeah, because one suggestion by my honest of the translation of this data is that on that date, the Lord that's depicted on the Stella will impersonate Paul on the octave four. And then it kind of breaks up some Germany probably, which makes sense. That makes. Yeah.
00:38:33
Speaker
Thank you. See, all that other stuff was just fluffy nothingness. That sentence you just said, there you go. That's what it says. I've seen that kind of stuff a lot. That totally makes sense. You know, that's what that's what they're going to write. And and these Stella where they would chisel this stuff in is propaganda in the most basic sense. Right. It's just to show the my lord at his best, just like we do with our own politicians or whatever.
00:38:59
Speaker
Show him his best and be like, on this day, he's going to impersonate this God and our city is going to be doing just great because of him. Right? Of course. And I mean, my prophecies, while there are some prophecies, they're really boring, have realized.
00:39:16
Speaker
I mean, if I'm born that 137 years hence, it will be a Tuesday and it will be the 200 year anniversary of our King's birthday. I mean, it's just not much of a prophecy more than a statement that time passed. Exactly. It is. And it's just a soda show longevity. But they have more evidence.
00:39:43
Speaker
Oh, look, look, I don't know. I don't know. I think I need a doctor, some sort of nurse just with Frederick. OK, just do it. Just do it. It's one of thousands of mud bricks that we found at Kamal Kalka. A very few of them have hieroglyphs on them. One of them has a date inscribed on it, which is very rare. And it says for a how.
00:40:09
Speaker
which is the calendar round date that's going to occur in 2012. Well, a Como Coco brick is important because it is verification of inscription in Tortogero. The brick has shown that the people who thought that it meant the nine gods were going to return were right. Okay.
00:40:36
Speaker
I don't know. It's again, it's so it's what's funny is this gets really sort of nerdy in the Maya world. But when he said for a how, I thought he was going to say for a how eight kumku, but he said for a how three kumku for how eight kumku is like, I believe it's the first day of the Maya calendar in 31, 14 B.C. But he was like, oh, for how three kumku like what?
00:41:01
Speaker
Again, I don't know. And that the four, how three kunku thing, that is a reference to to that, like the two sixty and three sixty five day calendars, like the smaller cyclical calendars. So that that's what that is. But I don't know, you know, I.
00:41:22
Speaker
This happens a lot too in pseudo-archaeology. In their cherry picking, they just bring up the most sort of to the side, no big deal example. It's the equivalent of being like, but what about this rock? What about this one? And you're like, what? So what? Yeah, I don't...
00:41:43
Speaker
It's a nothing basically. I wish I had something more just funny and winning to say, you know, but I'm just like, I don't know what they're. But I know what they're getting at. You know, which is which is that, you know, 2012 is a thing and it's the Maya culture started from outer space and, you know, all that all that BS. But it's just.
00:42:07
Speaker
It's in terms of comparing it to the real world, the real scientific world, it's just nonsense. So I can again, I have that feeling that people like you and I get if you're trying to argue against this that you just you can't because it's just.
00:42:27
Speaker
empty gibberish and then of course when somebody like me goes look i can't really say anything about that because it's just empty gibberish they go see see you don't know you're just part of big archaeology trying to shut down the truth it's like no i mean honest that like this inscription while interesting and cool it doesn't
00:42:46
Speaker
relate to anything more. I'm sure the reality is just like with the bolomiyak day thing we were just talking about, where it's like, oh, it's a, you know, specific date that just talks about, oh, on this day, this happened. The Maya have so many of those. But it's not, it's not about the end of the world. It's not about the end of the world. It's not about dates. We don't really get a year, right? Or would this be a date that only occurs once in this cycle?
00:43:09
Speaker
It those cycle all the time. So even with them. Again, not to get too technical, but like those two dates together, you can get something like that once every 52 years or even sooner, I forget. But but there's sort of a great cycle where the where the 268 calendar and the 365. Remember, we're not even talking about the long count. That's like.
00:43:32
Speaker
separate, where the 260 and 365 kind of come back to sort of zero each other. It's once every 52 years, again, called the great cycle. And and funnily enough, I, you know, I just turned 52. And one of my mentors, I was talking to her, she was like, hey, great cycle. Good for you. You know, like, oh, my God, that's right. So Frederick, I'm one great cycle old. Yeah, that sounds better when you introduce yourself, maybe. Yeah, I think so. I think so.
00:44:03
Speaker
Maybe I should do that. I'm a bit over a half cycle. Just enjoy the cycles, man. The cycles go too fast. And if you weren't angry at me before, you might be... I was angry at you before, by the way, just so you know. Okay, then you can only be more angry. The Mayans were incredible at what they did. The big question is, how did they know this?
00:44:30
Speaker
You have to say to yourself, perhaps civilizations might be much older than we think, and they pass down knowledge for hundreds and hundreds of thousands of years, or somebody came down and taught them.
00:44:50
Speaker
Well, obviously that's true. It's like and based on nothing like like this is one that comes up all the time. This is one the theme of stepping much older than archaeologists say.
00:45:06
Speaker
This is one I probably get more pushback than almost anything else, like on my YouTube channel or people who hate me for telling them factual truths. This one, it's like, you don't know, like that the age of the Sphinx is much older. Oh my God, that one never ever ends. It's like, dude, the face on the Sphinx is the face of the guy in the pyramid right behind the Sphinx.
00:45:35
Speaker
The guy you know it dates you guessed it to when the guy died You know, which is about four and a half thousand years ago, but they always do this water erosion hypothesis BS I can't even say the word water erosion anymore. I've heard it so many times I'm like, no, this is not true. Stop stop stop stop, but they won't it's like you can you can
00:45:56
Speaker
date the Sphinx other ways to show it's like okay yes it's only you know it's only about four and a half thousand it's not tens of thousands hundreds of thousands whatever it's just not none of this stuff whether it be the Maya whether it be the Egyptians you know it is not hundreds of thousands years the other one they bring up all the time I know this goes beyond the Maya is Gobekli Tepe. Gobekli Tepe they bring it up all the time and they always say that
00:46:21
Speaker
the archaeologist can't stand Gobekli Tepe. I'm like, what? Look, I am an archaeologist and I love Gobekli Tepe. OK, so just when you say all archaeologists can't stand Gobekli Tepe, you're already like telling a lie because I like Gobekli Tepe a lot. What's what makes Gobekli Tepe interesting is that it's an
00:46:40
Speaker
It's very early for what we call megalithic architecture, right? Big, like big stones, like stones that are like 10 feet tall, you know, to be carved and stuff. So the site itself is really fascinating. And it dates to around, oh, God, 9000 B.C. or somewhere in that vicinity. I forget the dates specifically. But yes, Gobekli Tepe is real. It's interesting. It brings up interesting questions of what
00:47:05
Speaker
like social organization was at the time in the Near East where it's found. It doesn't prove that it was some big city or something, it wasn't. But was it just sort of like a village level society or did they kind of have a main chief who had this done? And those are all super interesting questions, but they're easily explained
00:47:29
Speaker
in the natural world of, you know, human beings and archaeology and fascinating. So that these guys hang on all those like, like somehow like, like right after I say that, they'll still say, you know, you don't know, you don't believe, you know, I'm like, I, you weren't there.
00:47:48
Speaker
Yeah, Gobekli Tepe doesn't ruin my hypothesis, if that makes sense. All four Gobekli Tepe, you know, but Gobekli Tepe is not a hundred thousand years old as as none of this stuff is. You know, we just had yesterday.
00:48:03
Speaker
My students were asking me about the Ganang Padang Pyramid, right? The one in Indonesia that is a hill. It's a natural hill with a little bit of archaeology on the top. Not a little bit of archaeology in the top is really interesting. But if you date the bottom of it, you are dating the earth.
00:48:23
Speaker
So it's like, oh, this pyramid's 50,000 years old. It's like, no, that's the earth that you're dating. The human being didn't build that hill. They built some stuff on the top. So look at the stuff at the top, but they just won't stop with this. You know, and you can even this is another thing they're going to say. Even me, they're like, look at him. He's getting so angry.
00:48:44
Speaker
Right. Right. And it's like I'm not angry. I jump about it. It just it makes me like energized to talk about this stuff because I want to have people know the real facts and also just that this foolishness needs to be sort of exposed and talked about. And it's
00:49:06
Speaker
What you also notice underneath these is how flimsy all their stories are. They made them up in 10 minutes just to have a show or just to write a book. I want more sophistication in my pseudo-archaeology. I want more deep thinking in my pseudo-archaeology, but George Lucas made Star Wars and that's way better than any of the pseudo-archaeological crap stories.
00:49:31
Speaker
Yeah, that's a lot better. And I mean, pseudo-archaeology can be very good fiction, but they kind of stay there and don't really evolve their questioning, like, how did the Maya calendar get to existence? I mean, there's a real answer to it somewhere, but they don't go and look for it. No, because that's the hard work.
00:50:00
Speaker
Right. That's what I have to do. That's my day job, you know, and it's and it's fascinating, but it's slow and it's difficult. Yeah. When did that when did the Maya calendar actually start? When did they bring it in? Whoo. It's it's probably the late pre classic. So, you know, let's say though, 250 B.C., that that's, you know, sort of throw the long count comes later, the long count aspect to the calendar is probably stuck on around
00:50:31
Speaker
Like 250 AD. But the original, the 260 day calendar is probably the oldest one of all. The 260, 365 day ones are probably, you know, 500 years earlier, a little more. Hard to say. Hard to say when Maya Hieroglyphics first came in too. Probably around the same time, give or take in 250 BC.
00:50:54
Speaker
because there's some early ones. What's really interesting about the Maya hieroglyphics, the earliest ones, some of them are really hard to read, and it's probably because they weren't quite standardized yet, meaning this group was kind of writing hieroglyphics this way, and this one was kind of writing hieroglyphics this way, and it wasn't like standardization across. But those are the fascinating questions. Okay, when did they actually get it together? When did they standardize this sucker? That's fascinating. It's not like,
00:51:22
Speaker
Oh, and then they grew wings and flew into the cosmos. Yeah, and they're depicting a snake, so it must be a spaceship, but... Oh, God, I know, I know. But, I mean, it was only Maya, right? And I saw some name Istmain, Istmain, that used a long count. There were only two...
00:51:47
Speaker
groups. I don't think the Aztec use a long count calendar, right? They had a calendar, but they didn't have a long count. The Aztec one is still, funnily enough, sometimes a bit tougher to me aspects of it to translate. The Maya hieroglyphics are much more
00:52:07
Speaker
Dense, I would say. There's just much more to them. The Aztec ones, there's a little bit, they're a bit thinner. It's my own feeling on these over time. The Maya are kind of deeper and denser and there's more.
00:52:24
Speaker
Uh, so, uh, I, I think, I think the other group is, it might be a Zappa. I'm not, I'm, I'm, I'm not sure what's on there, but, but it's, it's all the same. What we have to realize is all of this, whether it be the, the Aztec, the Olmec, is Zappin culture, the Maya, it's all under the umbrella of Mesoamerica.
00:52:45
Speaker
This is where there is connections, right? So often pseudo-archaeologists make connections that are totally not there. They just make them up. Here, there is. There are obvious connections, like anywhere from early Olmec times, which 500 BC, 1000 BC, all the way up to the latest Aztec times of contact period, like 1500 AD, so we're talking about 2500 years. You see stuff like the rain god through the whole thing.
00:53:13
Speaker
You know, and in the Maya world, it's chalk. And in the Aztec world, it's Tlaloc. This is the same guy. You know, so so there are tons of connections there. And it's interesting.
00:53:25
Speaker
over time, kind of which area of Mesoamerica kind of comes to prominence and which other area kind of falls apart, you know? And again, those are the interesting questions. Teotihuacan and all of this Teotihuacan is a huge city on the outskirts of Mexico, right? That really, it was the center of the Mesoamerican world for a little while, like 500 AD. So there's so many interesting things happening.
00:53:53
Speaker
Something they do like to do, however, is to mix up the Aztec stone calendar with the Maya calendar. Yeah. It happens. Again, the Maya stuff I know really, really well and I feel good doing a real deep dive. The Aztec stuff
00:54:20
Speaker
There's a little difference, a little layer, and even like the Maya, I mean, the Maya, see, I'm already doing it. The Aztec calendar stone, it's not even necessarily a calendar in the exact same way that the Maya stuff is. It's more, a little more symbolic there. My favorite part, actually, ah, this is, okay, this is fun. My favorite part of the Aztec calendar stone is on the edge. Like, I'm giving,
00:54:48
Speaker
I'm going to give pseudo archaeology. I'm going to give ancient aliens another show right here. So on the edge of the of the calendar. So the calendar is this big circle, right? On the edge, there's these little like dot patterns. Like, obviously they made it. These aren't just little scratchings or something. It's like.
00:55:06
Speaker
obvious dot patterns on the far edge. Those are likely constellations, you know, and I love that to try and figure out which constellations they actually are, you know, and this kind of stuff. One of them is probably Orion, but of course you can. Yeah, you know what? I already hear that Orion's belt.
00:55:26
Speaker
Yeah, of course. And then I dude, I want to it's like I want to take the challenge and write a better ancient aliens episode than they could write. Like based on that, because of course you can do the whole Stargate thing of like, OK, there's these like various constellations around the edge of the thing. So, of course,
00:55:47
Speaker
During December 21st 2012 it'll have a dull glow and then it can turn and then of course Whatever side you turn the Aztec calendar to that's where your spaceship goes like so you want to go to like the Orion's belt you just make sure Orion's belt at the top and then you go to Orion's but see
00:56:08
Speaker
I mean, I can help too, because while the Maya don't have an end time prophecy, the Aztec actually have. They have, for example, they mentioned four movement in the second read year. Next time that happens is in 2027. So we can always have one. We got to look forward to a new apocalypse coming up at 2027.
00:56:36
Speaker
Well, as as before, I was lying. I was hiding in my bathtub cowering. I'm going to do that again. Twenty twenty seven. I'll mark my calendar. Oh, God. I think even the Mixitec have an end time in the second day or 13 rabbit whenever that is. I didn't find out. Yeah, I don't know.
00:57:01
Speaker
Right, the Mishek. The Mishek are another one. So that's another culture in Mesoamerica. So all these cultures are sort of vaguely interrelated. It's really, really cool. And we will maybe start to run off, but I will show you one last thing. OK, you see that I'm still breathing, so you've got to take me there. Yeah, and it's actually because I have no idea what's going on here. And it's with Mark Van Stone.
00:57:28
Speaker
Okay. And I have shorted this with pins and I think it's added out of context, but I can't really get this. And that can happen. Like I feel for these guys, you know, and just on an aside, I would just say that
00:57:43
Speaker
I do think that archaeologists in general should continue to actually do their best on these shows and that kind of stuff and just keep pushing because we've lost the fight with pseudo archaeology in terms of the media, pseudo archaeology is everywhere. So I think it's better to just go for it. Even if you're edited out of context, which just happens, just go for it. The more of us, if there's just a ton of real archaeologists at the gate who just
00:58:09
Speaker
push through the system, we could actually maybe start to turn the needle. It's okay when I don't feel, I don't blame him, you know, if he's at it out of context. So anyway, yeah, let's see. Let's see if it's plays also. The Mayans were timekeepers above and beyond all other things. Keeping up with time was magic. It was power to the Mayans.
00:58:33
Speaker
They were tracking in particular Venus, phases of the moon, eclipses, but they also tracked precession, which is an extraordinarily long cycle. What it means is that every year on, say, March 15th, the Pleiades rise for the first time in the sky. If you wait 72 years, the day of the rising of the
00:59:02
Speaker
The Pleiades will be one day earlier. If you wait another 72 years, it'll be a day earlier still. And if you wait 26,000 years, the Pleiades will move back to that same day.
00:59:14
Speaker
Uh, I'm I'm I'm kind of like, yeah, I'm not sure I can see how this could be taken out of context. You know, I'm not sure what they're I get. You know, I think what they're going for is that the Maya had this like twenty six thousand year plan or something. And I don't know how much they're actually tracking or not tracking procession. Like, like, um, preset, procession is where there's a little, um,
00:59:42
Speaker
It's it's it's where like the north star won't be exactly in the north after that. Like there's a slow, you know, turn of the night sky because basically the earth like wobbles like a little bit. You know, that's the session and it does take thousands and thousands of years. But in terms of. Did the mind where the mind just sort of tracking that on the short term sort of calendarically or were they were they actually doing a 26, you know, it doesn't I don't know what they're saying. I mean, I am I'm not here to say that the Maya were
01:00:12
Speaker
Having their procession maps all over the place or something, you know, but but they were He's right about that first part about tracking Venus and and you know and that kind of stuff to the moon and that was a big that was a big thing like like Venus Venus as the
01:00:31
Speaker
Morningstar Venus is the evening star. That was a that was a common theme in for the ancient Maya So those portions are it's like yeah, you know, but the but that later thing I don't know I don't know what they're saying
01:00:47
Speaker
Yeah, I think they want to use that part because they later claim that, I think it's Tikal. They claim it's laid out as Pleiades, the temples in Tikal. It's laid out to match exactly Pleiades.
01:01:03
Speaker
Gotcha. That's what they needed. Yeah, that that is that. So the idea that to call is laid out like the Pleiades is pure fiction and just total BS. That has nothing to do with reality. That has nothing to do with anything. That's just dumb. Right. It's just that is a dumb waste of time. And it's so common. That's what happens. Right. It like trace this trace this story as it goes. The first 15 or 20 seconds.
01:01:31
Speaker
That was real stuff, right? Like, oh, yeah. And the Maya traced the Venus and the phases of the moon. That's true. They took that stuff really seriously. And then he's like, hmm. And then they show the rising of the Pleiades. I'm like, I don't see that that much. And then he's like, and then it's every 26,000 years. I'm like, I don't see that at all. And then they're like, and that's why Tikal is laid out like the Pleiades. He's like, no, it's not. Right. So it just spins out and out to nowhere. Right. A very common
01:02:00
Speaker
construction of one of these stories, you know, starts with some reality of of some some real facts and then and then just moves to to Crazy Nowhereville. You know, if you watch if you watch Graham Hancock's ancient apocalypse, he does the same thing. He does it actually episode by episode and also throughout the series. Right. So if you watch the very first episode,
01:02:26
Speaker
It's not that bad. It is full of some total BS, but it's not that, you know, on the BS scale, it's pretty it's medium BS. But by the time you get to the end, it's a pure flight of nothing empty fantasy. Right. So that's that's their structure.
01:02:43
Speaker
Yeah. And they have the similar structure in here. So we put the Mark van Stone and others in the beginning and then more and more when done again, so close and others take over. Who they're interviewing, you know, as they go.
01:02:58
Speaker
But they have a lot of strange claims about especially how things line up, Orion's Belt. There is all those comments and stuff that just keeps popping up. My favorite is about the city of Teotihuacan.
01:03:16
Speaker
where they also have Orion constellation there, of course. But my favorite is that Teotihuacan is laid out as a supercomputer with three CPU processes.
01:03:30
Speaker
Oh, I get it. OK, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because it looks it looks like a motherboard, I'm guessing. Yeah, that's the idea. It's a motherboard in place and you need three CPUs because, you know, supercomputers need three CPUs. OK, OK. You know what, you know, Frederick, I've I've gone through the looking glass with that one because that one is so stupid that it's just funny. Like, I kind of like that one.
01:03:54
Speaker
You know, I've like three CPs. I think I think I'm going to rip that off. You know what? The pseudo-archaeology world rips us off all the time. I'm going to rip them off. I'm going to use their joke. Too bad, ancient aliens. I'm going to use that joke and I'm not going to give them credit. Ha. Yeah. That is that is.
01:04:13
Speaker
Genius. It's a great theory. I brought it up in an earlier episode. It's the first time I quoted Linus Tech Tips regarding three CPUs competing because it's a silly idea, even in modern standards. Because if the aliens travel through space, I think they could make a CPU that you only need one of. No, that's where you're wrong, Frederick. They need three. It's three CPUs.
01:04:42
Speaker
like we needed in the early 90s because it's the technology they are stuck in. Yeah, that's all I got. That's so funny. But what's so sad is that the reality of that, the reason why they say the three CPU thing and all that stuff is that Teotihuacan as a city was so advanced and so complex that they gritted out the whole thing right before they built it. And I always say this, even though I'm a Mayanist and I love studying the ancient Maya, you know, it's my favorite thing.
01:05:12
Speaker
The Maya cities are not laid out like that. So I always have to say, I'm like, you know, even though I love the Maya Teotihuacan as a city is sort of one order of magnitude bigger and more complicated than any Maya site, because the whole thing is planned out and gridded. And it's amazing what a good job they did with it and how they stuck to the plan, you know, for hundreds of years as they're building it, they build out this huge thing according to a master grid plan.
01:05:39
Speaker
That's the impressive part of the city. And on that bombshell, we will close out the discussion. Thank you for letting me torture you with the ancient alien.
01:05:55
Speaker
You know what? It's because it's been just long enough since we last talked that I forgot the pain. You know? I forgot. I forgot how long it took me to heal. Yeah, but I didn't force you to watch the whole episode. I mean, it can always be worse.
01:06:13
Speaker
That's true. That's true. Dude, I don't know. I think I said this in the past. I don't know how you do it. I don't know how you how do you keep your like positive demeanor? Like, isn't this taking a long term toll on you, Frederick? Frederick, I'm worried about you, Frederick. Yeah, like this. I mean, in the earlier episode, I joked that this will be, you know, I look into a man's descent into madness and yeah, it will.
01:06:42
Speaker
But I don't know, man, because I feel because what's funny is, you know, we're both we both do the similar stuff. I have the pseudo archaeology podcast and you have digging up ancient aliens. But over time, I so I think about you and I'm like, man, but Frederick is always, you know, right in the thick of it. I sometimes do other shows that are a little bit lighter, you know, and in other aspects.
01:07:06
Speaker
But you're just covered in it all the time. And I do worry. I'm like, doesn't it? I'm just worried that it's going to give you long term traumatic brain injury. I will snap one time. But, I mean, the sad part is it gets easier watching the episodes or before I used to, you know, spend hours watching one episode now is just, oh, supercomputer, three CPUs. Yeah, that checks out. Right.
01:07:34
Speaker
Do you have like, do you have like a method now where you just where you can kind of make fun in real time or something? Just is it a lighter for you?
01:07:43
Speaker
I mean, the thing with ancient aliens is even if they have the opportunity to make amazing fiction, I mean, we can do great stuff. I mean, as I've seen in screen games and things like that, that take the ancient alien idea and just make a narrative of it. Super great.
01:08:06
Speaker
they are such a lazy writer. So you're just repeating the same thing. So you're just sitting there, oh, that's bad claim again. Oh, that's bad claim again. And I mean, after a while it's just reruns of reruns. And then all of a sudden, oh, we talked about Rasputin, but what has Rasputin with ancient aliens to do?
01:08:28
Speaker
They got nothing. I totally agree with you. I noticed the laziness. They're lazy. That was the Star Wars joke I made earlier. It's like, no, Star Wars is a real story. Ancient aliens is not. It's just thin, bogus.
01:08:46
Speaker
Lazy. Yeah. I mean, great fiction, but other than that, if they would stick with the fiction, I mean, no worries, but yeah, it's just lazy. So, I mean, it's nice to see how it evolves, but yeah, we'll see how it goes. We'll see how it goes. Yeah.
01:09:09
Speaker
OK, man. So I guess I'll I guess I'll see in another, you know, year or half or something when I've forgotten again the pain of this show. You know, next time I will trick you into watching the whole thing. Exactly. I do it. You know, at some point, I've done that stuff before. I had to watch that. There was another podcast they do on movies and I watched the whole 2012 movie. Right. And we did a full on, you know. Yeah, they had me watch the Atlantis movie.
01:09:39
Speaker
Oh my god. Oh, that's so funny. It was fun though. Yeah, it was nice. I don't remember the 25. I remember seeing it, but I think I forgot it in self-defense along the way. You did. You did. It was in order to keep your body alive. It's the one that came out in 2009. It was with John Cusack. And it's funny at the time,
01:10:01
Speaker
When we were talking about the movie, I said, jeez, I forget huge parts of this. I'd just seen it, too, like a week before. And that's the hallmark of a bad movie, right? You forget parts of it really fast because it doesn't really make sense and certain scenes didn't even need to be there. Yeah, exactly. But I will let you go on that note. And if people want to hear more from you, where should they go?
01:10:25
Speaker
So my various social media and my media empire outlets, I think the best places to touch base with me are on my YouTube channel, Kinkella teaches archaeology. You can always feel free to leave a comment anywhere because I'll see the comments every so often, you know, on any of the videos. And then my
01:10:46
Speaker
my two podcasts, which are the pseudo archaeology podcast, which is very similar to this one. And then I'm also a part of the CRM archaeology podcast, which talks about like modern local issues in local archaeology. Well, thank you very much for your time. Hey, man. Thanks for having me. This was fantastic.
01:11:05
Speaker
And if you want to hear more of King Kela, you can head over to the pseudo-archaeological podcast, or check out his YouTube channel, King Kela Teachers Archaeology, where you can find more amazing stuff from King Kela and
01:11:24
Speaker
next time we meet I'm not sure what we're going to talk about yet this is recorded a bit beforehand due to me traveling but until then please spread the word by leaving a positive review on platforms like iTunes or Spotify or even better recommend the episode or two to one of your friends or several of your friends have them listen to an episode in the car on a long road trip where they have no escape
01:11:52
Speaker
And if you want to find out more about the show, check out the digging up ancient aliens dot com. And as usual, you find a bit of sources and resources and where you can go and find more info about these topics on the episode page over there. And if you want to support the show.
01:12:11
Speaker
You get some bonus episodes, early content, extended episodes sometimes even. Just head over to patreon.com slash digging up ancient aliens. Or if you prefer, we have a members portal. You're over at digging up ancient aliens slash support.
01:12:28
Speaker
And if you want to find King Kela's show and all the other great content we have on the archaeological podcast network, just head over to their website, archaeologicalpodcastnetwork.com.
01:12:43
Speaker
And if you want to contact me, it can be done through most social media sites. If you have comments, corrections, or want to write an email in all caps, my email is frederick at digging of ancient areas.com. Sandra Martelor created the intro music. The outro is by the band called Transcribe, who sings their song fully hot. Links to both of these artists can be found in the show notes. Until next time, keep shoveling that science.
01:13:16
Speaker
I've been waiting for you for so long I've been waiting for you for so long I've been waiting for you for so long I've been waiting for you for