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Key Lessons About Purpose
176 Plays1 month ago
In this special podcast episode of Stepping In we review three previous conversations about transformative journeys, purpose and calling, hosted by Adam Klein Managing Partner of New Ventures West. Adam weaves together conversations with three guests - Amiel Handelsman, Mo Edjlali, and Lizzie Azzolino - exploring four key themes about finding one's purpose in life. The themes include: how external life events can awaken inner awareness, how to productively engage with difficulty, how to recognize subtle internal signals about one's calling, and how to sustain commitment to one's purpose over time. Each guest shares personal stories of transformation, from Mo's experience with business failure leading to deep mindfulness work, to Lizzie's journey and profound awakening through illness, to Amiel's shifting relationship with coaching as he ages. The episode concludes with a poem about embracing life's mysteries and continuing forward despite uncertainty. Throughout, Adam emphasizes that while there may be common themes in finding purpose, each person's path is unique to becoming who they're meant to be - the importance is staying present to life's unfolding.
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Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Overview
00:00:05
Speaker
Hello, welcome to the Stepping In podcast. I'm your host, Adam Klein, senior faculty member, managing partner at New Ventures West. And we have a little bit of a treat in this episode. We're going to be doing a synopsis of the last three. So in the previous episodes, I was in conversations with Emil Handelsman, Mo Ajolali, and Lizzie Azolino. And we were looking at different dimensions of calling or purpose or vocation.
Themes of Reflection and Orientation
00:00:32
Speaker
And in this episode, I'm gonna take a look back at all three of those, pull out some themes. I'm gonna give a little introduction on that theme and then play clips from each of those episodes so that you can hear in each of their voices how this particular theme showed up for them. And the hope around all of this is that in looking at these themes and then looking at different ways it shows up, that you might be able to find a thread, a breadcrumb, a nugget that is helpful for you.
00:01:02
Speaker
as you discern your own sort of direction in life, purpose, calling, whatever you might be in the middle of related to this question.
Stories of Transformation: Amiel, Lizzie, Mo
00:01:10
Speaker
So I'm thrilled to be reintroducing you to Amielle Moe and Lizzie. And the themes we're going to be looking at, up the first one is, what is it like to look at your life sense the events that are going on, and then how does that then also in turn awaken an inner voice? So it's looking at external circumstances, things that may happen, and then what happens inside of us and how can we pay attention to both of those things in a way that's helpful for us. The second theme is looking at how we can really turn toward difficulty or resistance in a way that can be helpful for us.
00:01:54
Speaker
Not to say that it's going to be easier, but that it might be more generative and help us on our path forward. And how can we orient to it in that way? So we'll hear from each of them around that.
00:02:07
Speaker
The third one will be looking for what are the internal signals, the impulses or those little inner whispers that we can help pay attention to that might give us some indication of how to orient our life and discover and connect to really um what our vocation might be. And then in the last ah vignette or the sorry, the last theme,
00:02:34
Speaker
And then the last theme will be looking at what are ways of sustaining this um orientation of life, of discerning and living into purpose. So without further ado, we'll start into this first one. And really the first one is, as I was saying, centered around things happen in our life. We lose a job, somebody dies, we get a medical diagnosis, it's very unexpected.
00:03:01
Speaker
big catastroic catastrophic events. And then it's really looking to see what happens inside of us and what's our internal responses and how can those two things live together in a way that's helpful for us. So I'm going to pass it off to our friends, Amiel, Lizzie, and Mo, and hear from them about this.
00:03:25
Speaker
It's kind of this whiz kid boy wonder. The company went from 0 to 30 people. We were a multi-million dollar company. I was literally a poster boy. Microsoft had a big conference in Washington, DC, and they put up my picture on posters across the DC metro. I was literally a poster boy. um And then the company collapsed. And in 2009, we were overextended. We were doing ecosystem recruiting, essentially.
00:03:51
Speaker
I overextended everything and suddenly I found myself in a position that I had kind of gone through this process of becoming a certain type of leader, operating in a certain way that was very aggressive, very kind of alpha male, gangster like, ruthless like, reinforced through some of the different coaches and and folks that that I considered mentors at the time. And when the company collapsed,
00:04:17
Speaker
I found myself still operating like that. I still had this mentality. And when I would look at myself in the mirror, I didn't like who I've become. And I was disgusted. And I wouldn't hang out with myself. I was like, who is this guy?
00:04:32
Speaker
But I didn't have the company to hide behind me. I didn't have a reason to operate that way or be that way. And so I always went through a very difficult time. I was financially the most successful in my peer group and my family. And suddenly I got wiped out, flipped upside down. And in that journey, just trying to make sense of things, I asked myself, what's this all for?
00:04:54
Speaker
Why chase after something where just like that it could disappear? And why cause so much pain and suffering chasing after this thing that didn't really matter? So I asked myself what's important and I was open to exploring. Very fortunate to be in the DC area and have a supportive family who really helped help me together and helped me as I was sorting these things out.
00:05:24
Speaker
stumbled into a meditation class, um which blew my mind. I have a science skeptical background, and everything I was exposed to in that class resonated. Later, I found out that my teacher, Jonathan Faust, was the former executive director at Kapalu, the large yoga center, and his wife happened to be Tara Brock. But at the time, he was just an amazing teacher that that made a lot of sense to me.
00:05:53
Speaker
um I also checked out a bunch of books and went to the Shando Mountains. I'd hate to be cliche, but I actually did do that. And so went to the mountains, got away from everything, spent four days up there with books. One of them happened to be Coaching to Excellence by James and I was blown away by it by that book among among others and you know I remember it was a book on leadership and it's been a while since I read it so correct me if I'm off but with with anything but it started with talking about death and I was like I've read a ton of books on leadership and
00:06:32
Speaker
death that it's such a critical component of our our sense of life and um in our understanding just gets overlooked and I thought it was brilliant and I was very much influenced by that.
Midlife Reflections and Evolving Practices
00:06:45
Speaker
I signed up for the new veterans west course time in San Francisco shortly after did my first 10 day silent meditation retreat started consuming and looking for anything that that might expand my understanding like I just felt that everything I had learned up until then, specifically around leadership and and and how you're supposed to be effective and what I'm supposed to be um was all nonsense and that there was another way and that I just was blown away and kind of cracked me open. And so that started my journey. And to fast forward a little bit, I had bills to pay. So I went back to doing IT t program management for NAS and DHS.
00:07:26
Speaker
Started, did the New Adventures West course, got plugged in in a great deal with the mindfulness community at the time. This is around 2010. Eventually we launched our first Mindful Leaders Summit in 2013. And fast forward to today, we're one of the leading voices in the workplace mindfulness field and we're the largest provider of mindfulness-based stress reduction.
00:07:53
Speaker
And who are you? And the question was so real to her and it was real to me because I realized I didn't actually know that answer. And so, so much of who I thought I was and what I thought I was working toward, it just started to unravel from that point on and There's a lot that happened. I enrolled in New Ventures West for like all kinds of reasons. And um New Ventures West opened my worldview in a big way. And leaving my full-time job, choosing to follow my intuition, to leave my full-time career without really knowing what was next, but knowing I needed to figure that out was a big move.
00:08:49
Speaker
um And I, about four years into that was, I got extremely sick and spent a lot of time searching for what was wrong with me, like so much time searching. And at one point was diagnosed with an incurable cancer. And this was in my,
00:09:20
Speaker
early-ish 30s. And that experience changed me in a really big way um because it was, looking back now, it was a gift on my path ah to allow me to start to pay attention to my body.
00:09:47
Speaker
and to start to experience who I was in a different way. And that opened up a lot for me. um
00:10:00
Speaker
And i yeah, there's there's a long version of this story, but I no longer have cancer. And I really healed a lot from that experience. There are a number of these things that it's like,
00:10:16
Speaker
these moments in life meet me and I actually do take them as openings, which is i at the time what New Ventures West called um called them. I really do see them as openings to say, what am I not seeing? Like what world exists outside of this one that I've been living in? So there have been a number of moments where I feel like my world just keeps expanding.
00:10:47
Speaker
What were you hearing or what were you seeing that had you like more directly turned toward these big complex things without feeling the need to thread it into leadership or um otherwise um weave it into some other topic, but just really turn toward it more directly? That's a great question. Just to reflect on that.
00:11:10
Speaker
I think since I turned 50 or since I became aware that I was going to turn 50, like six months before that, which is now going back for four and a half years, I became aware of, I felt like it's more than a halfway point in life, most likely, something about that date. And I started to feel quite a bit of anxiety and getting in touch with the fear of death.
00:11:41
Speaker
which Ernest Becker says we we deny death and we even deny the fear of death in many, many different ways and how we deny it changes from when we're a kid to teenager, young adult. So I began to viscerally feel it. It's a terror. It's an immense terror. And so that feeling, which I still periodically encounter, had me saying, oh God,
00:12:11
Speaker
And then I was, what, what if I died? And what what hasn't been given? What hasn't been received and what hasn't been given? So that was one thing. What really matters? um A second is I noticed myself in one-on-one coaching, not being as interested as I have been before. Now I'm still coaching.
00:12:39
Speaker
And when I coach people, I'm interested in them. So if any of my clients are listening, I'm interested in you. And something about it has felt different. Like I don't have enthusiasm to start with new people. And right now I'm just working with people that I've worked with in the past. Very different.
00:13:10
Speaker
Yeah, often it's a case where coaches are, how do I grow my practice? How do I get more
Personal Growth through Difficulty
00:13:16
Speaker
clients? And I'm hearing a a contentment with what your coaching practice looks like these days. Absolutely. um There's also been an enthusiasm to speak. And this is really a big part of what we're looking at here with my writing and my podcast is that moving out of the place of I'm asking questions, I'm bringing forth other people's lives and supporting and challenging them and growing and and the podcast, interviewing them and researching them and helping them give the best version of themselves.
00:13:54
Speaker
What's also emerging is, gosh, I have a lot to say and it is killing me. It's burning me to not say it. Really? yeah Like it's painful. And it's not only painful for me, but I'm an unpleasant person.
00:14:13
Speaker
When I'm not saying things that are coming through me, thoughts about the world, passions, perspectives, critiques, those are going into my conversations with my family and my friends. And they're leaked things are leaking out. Power is leaking out in strange ways. Listen, this is what I've noticed. And I've not noticed it in that way. I've noticed it that when I feel like I'm expressing myself, I'm more pleasant to be around. It's only by writing more fully and sharing my perspective even in my podcast that I realized for the next hour four hours a couple days Hey It's all good. I feel great. I don't need anything from people. I'm just here that's so different because when I need something and I'm not getting a chance to Respond to the call Respond to the calling
00:15:12
Speaker
then I'm looking for it in these other interactions. And I hope that was helpful for you, listening into their different stories about external events and what happened for them. And maybe taking a moment for yourself to think about what's going on in your life How is that then showing up internally for you around what you're thinking and feeling? And what sense might you make of that that could be helpful?
00:15:45
Speaker
ah The second theme but we're going to look at is really difficulty, which we all face in differing degrees. Sometimes it feels like it's all difficulty for a long time. And what is it to have that be something that can be helpful for us? So one of the ways I sometimes talk about difficulty is it's like a massage. And sometimes a massage has those moments when it can feel a little intense because we're really tight. So sometimes difficulty can be that type of pressure point trying to work something out in us that we're needing to learn about ourselves or how we are orienting to life that we might be able to let go of.
00:16:32
Speaker
Another way of looking at difficulty is how can we internally find some resourcing, some ease, some stability that helps us feel more supported and at ease as we turn toward difficulty. And then the last one is just how can we keep with some kind of resilience and be persistent about it?
00:16:58
Speaker
So you're going to hear from Amiel, Mo, and Lizzie around this idea of difficulty and how it can support us and how it impacted their journey.
00:17:12
Speaker
But acknowledging, I've got a physical thing that needs to be attended to. Like I have an issue. And I, at one point, my wife said, why don't you talk to someone so he has sleep apnea. And I was so resistant. I didn't want that, I didn't want that, um felt like a pathological label. I don't want to be a person with sleep apnea using a CPAP machine and putting a mask on every night. I don't want to be that type of person. Well, I went and talked to him and heard his story and how it was helping him. Like, oh, there's a possibility here. New possibility. And so I went and got tested and sure enough, I had sleep apnea.
00:17:57
Speaker
So I started using it and I've been very compliant as they say.
00:18:04
Speaker
You got to be compliant. But I think that a lot of us have things, as you said, being confronted with like she confronted me with it. And my own just moods in the morning confronted me with it. There's something here that needs to be attended to. And so now that is a practice. I mean, it doesn't the mask doesn't put itself on. Right. The little water tank doesn't refill itself with distilled water. And when I travel to other countries, the hotel doesn't have distilled water in my room for me.
00:18:34
Speaker
right to go out and get it. So that's... um There's a lot more, but maybe that gives... Well, it's very shocking to me. And when I saw that, you know, I felt kind of the the Spidey sense tingling, right? Like there was something there. I was like, hey, wait a minute. And and that feeling of like, ooh, like kind of, ah the you know, that align this. And I realized that Hey, this has got me curious. And if it's got me curious, maybe maybe others will be curious. And if not, so what? I'm feeling it. So let let me let me pursue this. yeah And I did. And I found that um the lead plaintiff was this woman by the name of Candy Brown. Found out she was a professor at the University of Indiana with a PhD in Divinity Studies from Harvard. So she was a legitimate, credible person.
00:19:28
Speaker
um And I engaged with her over email. Next thing you know, we did a one-on-one interview for an online event that we were doing. She did an article for us and I was just mind-blown. It was refreshing and exciting and um and and it got me feeling alive where there was this woman who disagreed with fundamentally a lot of the things that we were trying to do.
00:19:53
Speaker
but that was willing to approach things with rigor and with a level of rational intelligence and a voice that had been silenced everywhere else. And I engaged her and just found, I felt enlivened
Embracing Diverse Perspectives and Ease
00:20:10
Speaker
by it. It challenged me, questioned some of the stuff that we were doing. And next thing you know, I invited her and she was part of a keynote thing at our summit, we do a couple of different keynote things. And I paired her with Barnaby Spring, who at the time was running New York's Department of Education mindfulness program, overseeing the program that would potentially impact a million students, one of the largest in the world. And they had a debate. And no one, no one told me that this was a good idea. No one encouraged this. No one suggested it. It was like, it was like the opposite advice. Exactly. Like, what? Why?
00:20:50
Speaker
But at the event, the people who experienced that, they felt that spark that I felt. They felt alive. They were energized. They didn't agree necessarily with everything, but they felt a alive. And for me, um it was it was a sign that, hey, there's something here.
00:21:11
Speaker
and
00:21:14
Speaker
I had this.
00:21:18
Speaker
unconscious belief that my life was supposed to be hard, that I was the person who, that my value was because I could experience these miraculous things through the hardest moments being diagnosed with an incurable cancer, like this count countless things where I've,
00:21:47
Speaker
over overcome through really hard things,
00:21:56
Speaker
real transformation. And this was this was something that was programmed in in my early childhood. um And so my move to New York made a ton of sense because it's a really hard city to live in. And everyone who I met there reinforced how hard it was. They're like, yeah, it's hard. And I started to realize everyone that was there, it was like they loved it because it was hard. And that's like a part of the culture. And I was like, wait,
00:22:40
Speaker
and know and And I'm saying and I'm laughing because everything is like laughter, but it was incredibly painful um to realize that, oh, that that was like my safe zone, is things being really hard. And so I ended up writing a letter to myself that I am now trusting that the things that are truly meant for me will happen with ease.
00:23:07
Speaker
And which doesn't mean it's not hard work because it's a different kind of hard, but it's a trusting in the process and like meeting life in each moment and just a completely different embodied experience. yeah
00:23:26
Speaker
Welcome back.
Purpose and Inner Signals
00:23:28
Speaker
So hopefully that's giving you something to think about and reflect on as you navigate whatever difficulty showing up in your life. This third theme we're going to be exploring through different vignettes is the emergence of purpose or calling and how do we pay attention to these subtle clues or internal impulses along the way that can help us navigate our life.
00:23:57
Speaker
One of the things that I was struck by in these conversations is how purpose is really an ongoing emergent phenomenon, meaning it's something that happens over time and that we're continuing to discover as we go on. So I'm excited for you to listen to how this showed up for Mo, Lizzie, and Amiel, and then in turn, how it might be showing up for you now.
00:24:27
Speaker
I would say a really significant shift for me in every chapter of my life has been learning to trust what I know is real and express that and manifest that. And in early childhood and then in early adulthood,
00:24:54
Speaker
most likely leading up to the point that I met you during New Ventures West training. I knew the truth, but I shared it out of fear and out of a need to control, out of a need to protect myself from more of a place of lack.
00:25:17
Speaker
And now I,
00:25:23
Speaker
have come into this gift of seeing the truth in people and in systems and in our world and sharing it when the time is right, when the invitation is there and from my heart entirely. So from a place of wholeness and So much of what I know about myself is I'm here to be a storyteller and to help us all through this collective transition to really know and be ourselves individually and collectively in a new way. And I do that through stories and I do that through personal stories and I do that through helping people
00:26:21
Speaker
and groups change how they've seen their path.
00:26:28
Speaker
There's something here worth exploring. And so to fast forward to where Mindful Leader is at now, um they exploring the critics and and taking a critical view has been really essential to how we're looking at mindfulness and looking at the future and and really providing a vision for mindfulness with the work that we're doing, where we're able to look at the past and look at the wonderful contributions of people in the past, um the frameworks and and and the the different areas of us particular, MBSR, but then also looking to the future and figuring out how does this work evolve? How do we create the right atmosphere, structures and frameworks where we're able to carry this work forward for generations and generations to come
00:27:13
Speaker
and address some of the baggage and address some of the unaddressed things from the past and create something that truly, I believe, um connects with the the original passion and and reason I got involved with mindfulness. And I think a lot of the original promise and excitement around mindfulness that that maybe has been lost with some of the um things that people have experienced and seeing out there now.
00:27:39
Speaker
what were you hearing or what were you seeing that had you like more directly turned toward these big complex things without feeling the need to thread it into leadership or um otherwise um weave it into some other topic, but just really turn toward it more directly? That's a great question. Just to reflect on that,
00:28:02
Speaker
I think since I turned 50 or since I became aware that I was going to turn 50, like six months before that, which is now going back for four and a half years, I became aware of, I felt like it's more than a halfway point in life, most likely, something about that date. And I started to feel quite a bit of anxiety and getting in touch with the fear of death which Ernest Becker says we we deny death and we even deny the fear of death in many, many different ways and how we deny it changes from when we're a kid to teenager, young adult. So I began to viscerally feel it. It's a terror. It's an immense terror. And so that feeling, which I still periodically encounter, had me saying, oh God,
00:29:03
Speaker
And then I was, what, what if I died and what what hasn't been given, what hasn't been received and what hasn't been given. So that was one thing. What really matters. Um, a second is I noticed myself in one-on-one coaching, not being as interested as I have been before. Now I'm still coaching.
00:29:31
Speaker
And when I coach people, I'm interested in them. So if any of my clients are listening, I'm interested in you. And something about it has felt different. Like I don't have enthusiasm to start with new people. And right now I'm just working with people that I've worked with in the past. It's very different.
00:30:02
Speaker
Yeah, often it's a case where coaches are, how do I grow my practice? How do I get more clients? And I'm hearing a contentment with what your coaching practice looks like these days. Absolutely. um There's also been an enthusiasm to speak. And this is really a big part of what we're looking at here with my writing and my podcast is that moving out of the place of I'm asking questions, I'm bringing forth other people's lives and supporting and challenging them and growing and on the podcast, interviewing them and researching them and helping them give the best version of themselves. What's also emerging is, gosh, I have a lot to say and it is killing me. It's burning me to not say it. Really? Yeah. Like it's painful.
00:30:58
Speaker
And it's not only painful for me, but I'm an unpleasant person. When I'm not saying things that are coming through me, thoughts about the world, passions, perspectives, critiques, those are going into my conversations with my family and my friends. And they're leaked things are leaking out. Power is leaking out in strange ways. Listen, this is what I've noticed. And I've not noticed it.
00:31:24
Speaker
In that way, I've noticed it that when I feel like I'm expressing myself, I'm more pleasant to be around. It's only by writing more fully and sharing my perspective, even in my podcast, that I realize for the next hour, four hours, couple days, hey,
00:31:47
Speaker
It's all good. I feel great. I don't need anything from people. I'm just here. And that's so different because when I need something and I'm not getting a chance to respond to the call, respond to the calling, then I'm looking for it in these other interactions. And that doesn't go so well, I think.
00:32:14
Speaker
Welcome back. So the last piece we're going to be exploring is what does it look like to find some support or some sustenance or some way of feeling encouraged along this path of discovering, location, purpose, calling. And in each of these different vignettes, you're going to hear really distinct ways that each of these three found support.
00:32:40
Speaker
or have a life of practice that helps them continue forward, continue noticing the events of life, continue to pay attention to that internal internal voice, and really in a way keep saying yes to life.
Practice, Community, and Self-Discovery
00:32:54
Speaker
So for me personally, this is a particularly powerful point in each of these conversations where the three of them point to how to um stay in it really and keep going.
00:33:08
Speaker
But there's something here worth exploring. And so to fast forward to where mindful leader is at now, um exploring the critics and and taking a critical view has been really essential to how we're looking at mindfulness and looking at the future and and really providing a vision for mindfulness.
00:33:25
Speaker
with the work that we're doing, where we're able to look at the past and look at the wonderful contributions of people in the past, um the frameworks and and and the the different areas of us particular, MBSR, but then also looking to the future and figuring out how does this work evolve? How do we create the right atmosphere, structures and frameworks where we're able to carry this work forward for generations and generations to come and address some of the baggage and address some of the un unaddressed things from the past and create something that truly, I believe, um connects with the the original passion and and reason I got involved with mindfulness and I think a lot of the original promise and excitement around mindfulness that that maybe has been lost with some of the um things that people have experienced and seen out there now. The other thing I'm
00:34:21
Speaker
appreciating as you've been talking, because you've been talking about this time span of, you know, 20 years, 30 years, 25 years.
00:34:29
Speaker
That's long, it's a long term commitment. And there's like small evolutions of listening and shifting and changing and some of them are micro and then they kind of lead to a big change where or more noticeable pivot. But that noticeable pivot didn't just appear out of nowhere.
00:34:51
Speaker
it's been supported by small things along the way, little ways of listening, little ways of turning towards sleep or diet or food or intake, practices in the morning. So the ah consist I guess what I'm getting to is like consistency over a long time really supports some of what I'm feeling in this more now, like more externally externally noticeable shift or pivot in how your you know, your work is showing up, but it didn't just appear. Yeah. So interpreting my story as a case for ongoing long-term deliberate practice would be a good and hopefully useful interpretation. I want to just say a couple of things about that because I have dived into deliberate practice as not taking it from Buddhism or something like that, but taking it from sports, music, performing arts, math,
00:35:52
Speaker
that reps matter. Getting in your reps, whatever it is your practice, really, really matters.
00:36:02
Speaker
Yes. And you don't always have to believe the yes. That's another thing. Sometimes you can just say the yes and just do it. And then all of a sudden you realize it's happened. Or you start or like you start to catch up to the yes.
00:36:18
Speaker
So one of the things that I always do when I'm, when something becomes very important to me is I share it with as many people as possible. Beautiful. And like by words create momentum, words are energy. It's like the act of sharing.
00:36:39
Speaker
is creation. And so sharing what it is you're up to, a dream you have, it really does create a lot of momentum. And then people love to support you with dreams. It's true. I believe that's true. Yeah.
00:37:02
Speaker
So we're coming to a close for this particular episode. Again, the intention here is to really draw out how in each of our lives, this question of purpose or vocation is going to be very distinct. So in Amiel, Mo and Lizzie's stories, there's yes themes, and also lots of particularities. So sometimes we can maybe have questions about well, why isn't it working like it worked for that person?
00:37:33
Speaker
or how can I learn from them so that ah that can apply directly to me? So while there may be themes, there's also uniqueness. So one of the questions I invite you into as you're discerning this for yourself is how do these themes become helpful for you? And then also what's particular about your life and how do they show up in a unique way, given who you are and the circumstances of what you're living in?
00:38:02
Speaker
And in closing, I want to leave us all with a poem by Rilke, which I think speaks to this. Rilke writes, the mystery speaks to each of us as it makes us, then walks with us silently out of the night. These are the words we dimly hear. You sent out beyond your recall. Go to the limits of your longing. Embody me.
00:38:32
Speaker
Flare up like a flame and make big shadows I can move in. Let everything happen to you, beauty and terror. Just keep going. No feeling is final. Don't let yourself lose me. Nearby is the country they call life. You will know it by its seriousness. Give me your hand.
00:39:01
Speaker
So I'd love to hear from you about how you're being impacted by either this episode or previous episodes. You can email me stepinatnewventureswest.com. And until we touch base again, take care, friends.