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The Impact and Benefits of Biophilia in the Workplace
57 Plays2 years ago
As people become more aware of the current issues in architecture associated with human healthcare, the adaptation of the biophilic design concept is on an influential run.
The biophilia hypothesis claims that humans have an innate affinity towards nature and that their connection is beneficial. Learn more on how the integration of greenery, light, water and all sorts of natural elements in interiors positively affects people’s perception of space and the time spent on it.
Benefits of Biophilic Design in the Workplace
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💼 Incorporating biophilic design principles into our workplaces can have positive impacts on our health and well-being.
🌿 Biophilia focuses on respecting both nature and people, creating spaces that incorporate literal nature and support health and well-being.
💡 Wellness is not just about surviving, but thriving on a daily basis by practicing healthy habits that encompass social connectedness, exercise, nutrition, sleep, and mindfulness.
🌿 The presence of environmental features such as greenery, natural materials, and views can greatly enhance the workplace environment.
🏢 The application of biophilic design in commercial offices has been scientifically proven to have positive impacts on employees.
💼 Implementing biophilic design in workplaces can lead to higher productivity and reduced absenteeism.
😊 Restorative environments in the workplace, created through biophilic design, can improve mood, motivation, and productivity, making employees more willing to come to work.
🌿 Bringing nature into the workplace, such as incorporating views and vistas, can positively impact employee wellness and productivity.
Importance of Nature in the Built Environment
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🏢 Biophilic design goes beyond sustainability and green practices, emphasizing the need to create meaningful and beneficial connections between humans and nature in the built environment.
🌍 Biophilia can be applied to any scale and task in architecture, offering endless possibilities for creating nature-inspired spaces.
🌿 Biophilic design focuses on sustainability, biodiversity, health, and well-being, showing that it can have economic benefits as well as human benefits.
😱 The lack of natural light in workspaces can have a severe impact on well-being and productivity.
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Transcript
Introduction to the Series
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello everyone, my name is Dunja and you're watching your fifth episode of the pre-new Perspectives Launchpad, a webcast series dedicated to sustainability. In the previous four episodes, we talked about wind power, solar power, sustainable fashion and environmental communication, so if you haven't watched those episodes, please do check them out on our channel.
Biophilic Design: Benefits and Applications
00:00:18
Speaker
And today we're going to talk about biophilic design and going to give you the answer to the question, is it good for our health and how to use this kind of design at home or at our workplaces? So, in short, biophilic design is a human-centric approach to interior and building design that focuses on the human connections to the natural world.
00:00:39
Speaker
So we're going to try to learn more about this movement.
Expert Insights with Dr. Yelena Brajkovic
00:00:42
Speaker
And like I said, how to incorporate by field design principles into our own homes or our workplaces and maybe both since a lot of us are working from home at the moment. My guest is Dr. Yelena Brajkovic, who is an expert on this field. She's a research associate at the Faculty of Architecture, University of Belgrade. So stay with us and hear what this awesome lady has to say.
00:01:13
Speaker
OK, hello, Yelena. Welcome to Green New Perspective Launchpad webcast.
00:01:19
Speaker
So can you tell me how did you get into this field of biophilia?
Understanding Biophilia in Architecture
00:01:26
Speaker
How did you start? Because I mean, let's say it's not a new subject, but only recently it became popular since sustainability is more and more popular by the year. So biophilia is kind of
00:01:44
Speaker
connected with that with sustainability. So I guess that's why we talk about it more in architecture or in everyday life. So what is biophilia and how did you get into that? Thank you Dunja for inviting me for this podcast. I would be very glad to share some of I think interesting insights on biophilia as it is really also a new trend.
Health and Environmental Benefits of Biophilic Design
00:02:11
Speaker
which also is becoming more and more popular each year. Anyway, I am a research associate at the Faculty of Architecture, University of Belgrade. I have PhD in new media and architecture, and part of it was actually, let's say, dealt with these boundaries between artificial and natural. And how do we actually connect to natural world? How do we treat nature? And what are actually the opportunities
00:02:41
Speaker
of technologies and media to actually reconnect us with nature or similar. I know it sounds like maybe a little bit like it's the opposite, like artificial and natural, it's technologies that are always considered unnatural and artificial, but and yes, they in a way are, but again,
00:03:05
Speaker
When we look at some studies, they can be understood as part of nature, like maybe artificial intelligence is our ancestor in the future, maybe it will collide actually into something which Roy Ascot called Neo-Nature or Nature the Second or Nature after the rise of new media. But anyway, it's just a brief
00:03:30
Speaker
introduction. I think also it's an interesting topic, but it is topic for itself, not for now. Anyway, this bond is between artificial and natural, how also with this overall connectedness, let's say, we again can maybe be more in a way part of nature and enjoy nature as we have these opportunities of remote working and similar.
00:03:56
Speaker
So there are many trends in different, I would say, European projects and also above Europe. I mean, more wider than Europe, but I have been involved in some of different projects and they're all dealing with different maybe aspects of sustainability. So, for example, one is treating this, let's say, future of work and how actually what is the geography of new working spaces. So it's also a topic. Yeah, that's interesting.
00:04:25
Speaker
Because yeah, we work from home and so we work from everywhere.
00:04:30
Speaker
Yes. It's really interesting, really, really nice project. Of course, people can search for it if they are interested, literally just type in geography of new workspaces and workplaces. But to come back to sustainability through my, let's say, research, of course, I encountered other people that were dealing with sustainability in, let's say, even more, not sustainability, also,
00:04:59
Speaker
It's, let's say, a very wide concept. Biophilia goes, I would say, even beyond, as it also focuses on how we perceive and what do we need from the built environment. So it focuses on people as well as nature, respecting both sides. And sometimes some spaces can be biophilic.
00:05:22
Speaker
that was actually involving literal nature. But let's first explain, of course, what biophilia is. So there are definitely core benefits of using biophilic design, both for people and for the environment. So I think this is a very interesting topic, I would say, for a wider audience, as I'm sure everybody can relate to this topic.
00:05:48
Speaker
Anyway, before explaining what is biophilia, I would really like to remind us all what is actually health, because biophilia and biophilic design has the aim of supporting health and well-being, and it's in a way a salutogenic approach, which means we want to nurture our well-being before we actually lose some of our
00:06:12
Speaker
let's say, stronger points in health and similar. So how can we actually support ourselves through design of the built environment? This is what biphilia and biphilic design is about. But first, just to remind everybody that health is actually, and I'm using the whose definition, is not is a
00:06:31
Speaker
not merely the absence of disease or infirmity, is it actually a state of complete physical, mental and social well-being. So physical, mental and social well-being. And what is well-being at all? And wellness. We all know that we have this wellness and spas everywhere and similar, but what actually wellness is? Well, it is actually practicing healthy habits on a daily basis
00:06:58
Speaker
that help us not to only survive, but to thrive. So if we thrive on a daily basis, then we are definitely good. We are definitely, let's say, in the state of well-being. So how do we thrive? What are these main dimensions of our everyday life that are very important, that are, let's say, key dimensions? So it's social connectedness, exercise, nutrition,
00:07:27
Speaker
sleep and mindfulness. So do you have any idea? Yeah, I just wanted to ask what about the biophilic design and how it taps into a connection to nature, not just our health. I mean, it's interesting. Yeah, I don't think that people are actually thinking that much about the connection between, let's say, design and architecture and our health, like you said.
00:07:54
Speaker
But I would like to know also about our connection to nature, I guess biophilia connects all those dots. Yes, yes, of course. So as I said, all these dimensions of health and mental well-being, we need to support it through the design of the built environment. So when we talk about the built environment, we definitely need this connection with nature in many levels. So Eric from
00:08:23
Speaker
was actually the first one who coined the term of biophilia. And he was a psychologist, of course, and he defined the psychological orientation of being attracted to all that is alive and vital. Later, Edward Osborne Wilson, in 1984, was it coined the biophilia hypothesis, which says that we have this innate
00:08:49
Speaker
affiliation to other living organisms and nature. That means that we need to connect to nature and natural processes on a daily basis. And later then, Kellert, Stephen or Kellert, together with Wilson, actually operationalized this concept of biophilia into biophilic design.
00:09:13
Speaker
So I would say that part of our mental health, part of our well-being is to be connected to nature. So we definitely have this need of being connected to nature on a daily basis. And how can we do it? How can we, of course, also need to build environments? So how can we design this built environment in a meaningful way?
00:09:35
Speaker
So biophilic design goes, let's say, beyond sustainable green. It respects nature, nurtures human, also beneficial connections with it. So if you ask if anybody is interested in how to practice and how to use biophilic design, there are, of course, elements and attributes of biophilic design.
00:09:58
Speaker
And I would just point out a few of them. So one of them is environmental features. So we need both in indoor or outdoor design, urban design or interior design. We need definitely, let's say, presence of some environmental feature. This is, of course, dealing with color, with air, with water, with greenery. This is something very down to earth that anybody can understand, of course.
00:10:25
Speaker
natural materials, of course, colors, views, and vistas. Everybody likes to have nice view, right? But also we can, let's say, design this view. It's that it's, let's say, colors. So when we deal with the location,
00:10:40
Speaker
This is something really, really important. Then we have natural shape and forms. So this can be also analogues. We can also simulate nature. So for example, and also there is a bit biomimicry. So for example, even in, let's imagine interior space, a conference room,
00:11:00
Speaker
Maybe we don't have enough natural light, but maybe we can do a ceiling that imitates some, let's say, natural motives, and it already feels better. So some space doesn't really have to be, let's say, in touch even with real nature, it has to mimic it, at least, so that we can achieve something which is beneficial for human perception of space.
00:11:26
Speaker
Then we have natural patterns and processes. This is, of course, something that changes in time. That's why it is processed, not a form or a material. So, for example, information richness. For example, if we talk about landscapes, we don't want flat, right, too monotonous landscapes. We need a focal point. We need some kind of, let's say, change in a landscape, for example, or sensory variability. I am sure you will show pictures to the audience.
00:11:56
Speaker
what sensory variability is and why do we enjoy it. Then we have, of course, light and space. Light is, of course, very important in so many ways. It can shape our perception of space very, very heavily. So this is something that always has to be done carefully. So is it the color of light? You know, many different parameters.
00:12:19
Speaker
Then we have two very interesting dimensions, place-based relationships and evolved human-nature relationships. I hope this is not too abstract for the general audience, and I think it isn't. So place-based relationships, we have this, let's say, when we design something,
00:12:39
Speaker
We need to let's say connect to the place historically or geographically. We need to have this cultural connection to place. We should let's say definitely achieve a spirit of place and avoid placelessness. So this is very abstract.
00:12:57
Speaker
Yeah, but what do you think? Is that actually happening? Because the world is getting more and more globalized. So how are we actually tapping into our historic knowledge, our historic places?
00:13:14
Speaker
Well, I still think it's there. I think that's why people like to travel because they definitely experience different culture. They meet this sense of place in different locations, I think for sure. Of course, there are some generic architectures that can be found in any city.
00:13:34
Speaker
and they actually don't give us much perception. That's why also everybody likes to visit the, let's say, old town in cities that have this kind of, let's say, historic district and similar. So this is something that we should always nurture if we, of course, have it. And this is this place-based, let's say, literacy for designers.
00:14:01
Speaker
For the last one, evolved human nature relationships. This is something that is stepping also a little bit in psychology and mental dimensions of space, where we need to create some kind of, let's say, environment. If we are in a hospital, we want a calm environment. If we are maybe at a public space, we want to
00:14:24
Speaker
around this social interaction and we can do it, of course, through, let's say, transitional spaces, through spaces that actually change, allow you to be playful and similar. So just to say a few, curiosity and excitement, exploration and discovery, we definitely need discovery in space.
00:14:44
Speaker
Then we have this part that needs information and cognition, but also another part that needs just to feel safe and to feel maybe playful, depending on how we shape, let's say, the environment, we can actually achieve this.
00:15:05
Speaker
Okay. Can you give us some of the examples of biophilia in architecture that are existing in the world? Yes. Well, there are many, many differences, let's say.
00:15:18
Speaker
many different examples that we can show. It really applies to any scale and any task. I would, for example, point out if somebody is really interested in this topic, then the one can explore further, of course, on the Internet. I would do, for example,
00:15:37
Speaker
point out, maybe the Terrapin Bright Green, it's a consultancy firm, it's based in New York, for example, and I think they're a good example of, for example, an office which gives a lot of different actually services.
00:15:53
Speaker
of which one is really internal studies of biophilic design. So, inside, you can meet the architects, environmentalists, it's really different, it's really a little bit different professions, of course, and their main goal is actually to reach this sustainability, different sustainability, let's say, goals. So, they are dealing with biodiversity, health and well-being, profitability, why not? Biophilic design is known for economic benefits also,
00:16:23
Speaker
as well as human benefits of users of these spaces. Then system integration, of course, climate resiliency, energy utilization, water management, of course it's all interconnected.
00:16:42
Speaker
They did something which is called also 14 patterns of biophilic design. I'm not going to talk much about them. I already mentioned some of the parameters, but let's say three main division inside of these patterns is nature in the space.
00:16:59
Speaker
nature of the space. So nature in the space is literally natural analogues or natural processes or literal nature in the space. Nature of the space is that what we already mentioned. What is the sense of the place? Do you feel good? Do you feel, again, these other dimensions of space that should speak to us if we created a proper place? And of course, there is this natural analogues.
00:17:27
Speaker
Being said that I would say that they also did a very good reason to publication actually of different case studies that people again can search for in the on the internet. I would just say it applies to different scales.
00:17:42
Speaker
And for example, we can have a pocket, little small urban parks and not only parks but also let's say urban hacks in a way it can be in the yard, it can be even intersection of the streets where you can apply some of the let's say biophilic principles. Then you can use it of course in commercial offices.
00:18:01
Speaker
as there are many beneficial things that were already measured in a scientific way as well. Then we can use it in hospitals, in health institutions, in schools, of course, educational institutions. We can use it, of course, in interior design living space.
00:18:21
Speaker
So what actually people can expect if they use properly biophilic guidelines, building managers can retain higher-end companies, should improve productivity, absenteeism should be really reduced because there is actually frightening numbers that we heard in London to
00:18:44
Speaker
2019 about burnouts, about people really having to be absent and we're actually quickly giving, let's say, resigns. So there is actually a lot of resources that employer has to put in to actually put someone new.
00:19:04
Speaker
So biophilic design is actually good for workplaces. Like you said, it's good for worker mentality, which is also beneficial for companies, of course. Yeah, that's really, really cool. Yeah.
00:19:20
Speaker
It can provide something which is called restorative environments and restorative environments are those who actually give us good mood endorsement. They, let's say, lift up a little bit our physical or even social interaction activities and they induce, let's say, this feeling of pleasantness and safety. So people are literally
00:19:42
Speaker
willing to come to work, they feel more motivated, they feel productive, they feel respected and that is really something that I guess all of us need. So what do you think about this? I'm interested to know.
00:19:54
Speaker
Well, I'm thinking at the moment that I have never worked in that kind of environment and I would really like to see how it affects my mind. And I wanted to ask you, do you know about some of those workplaces? Have you been in one? I haven't read the research about that. I think that I'm going to find it. Maybe I'm going to leave if I find them or if you send them to me, we can leave them.
00:20:20
Speaker
the links in the description of the video so the viewers can also read them. But yeah, I wanted to ask like, what are the advantages are like, what did the research have shown, the percentage of productivity that is increased maybe, or let's say, like you said in the beginning, like overall well being of a single person or a team or, you know, everyone who works there,
00:20:47
Speaker
Yeah, well, I see there are different. I must say, for example, I think you will show the pictures also that I will send you.
00:20:55
Speaker
In 2019, we really were at this symposium in London. It was only about wellness and biophilia at workplaces. So we definitely visited offices in London that applied this in a different way. Some of them actually dealt with more with the lightning issue. Some of them brought literally nature into the offices. We also discussed views and vistas.
00:21:20
Speaker
And for, I would say, in different regions of the world, there were people from everywhere around the world. The workforce is facing different challenges. So somewhere is literally about the quality of air, but somewhere it's about this motivation because it's really, I think the new generations also are more and more demanding considering the
00:21:43
Speaker
Let's say the work conditions, and this is actually good. But besides the design of workplace, of course, I mean, if you work for 12 hours a day or 10 hours a day, never mind. The restorative environment, of course, is too much. So it's not to go back to health and healthy habits and wellness and well-being.
00:22:05
Speaker
I think each of us should definitely think about the time we are able to dedicate to work, to personal life, to the social connectedness that we need. So definitely everything has to be in balance. Yeah, it kind of makes sense. The biophilic design goes hand in hand with ethical practices, ethical working practices.
00:22:29
Speaker
Well, yeah, we're talking about sustainability. But maybe also, I think it would be interesting to mention, first thing, what was interesting, and I was surprised, people actually don't, some surveys show that people actually are not that crazy about open spaces, because then they feel... I'm one of them as well.
00:22:52
Speaker
Really? Why? Because I worked at an open space at a multinational company and you don't have any privacy so everyone is staying quiet during the day and for me it was super boring because I didn't get the sense of productivity, I didn't get the sense of teamwork
00:23:18
Speaker
And I think that themes are formed in smaller spaces rather than bigger ones. That's just my impression. I haven't read any research on that. Yeah, but it kind of looks like everyone is holding to themselves, you know? So yeah, I like smaller spaces because I have the feeling that I'm building stronger connections with my teammates if I work in a smaller space.
00:23:49
Speaker
Yeah, you see how the space does influence your both productivity and satisfaction at work. Yeah. But if someone wants to work alone, I guess for them, maybe that isn't the problem. You know, I'm a person who likes teamwork.
00:24:06
Speaker
Yeah, sure. Well, recent trends are combining these, let's say, spaces and offices, let's say, of privacy and open spaces, let's say, co-working spaces. But now, these co-working, let's say, spaces, dedicated space.
00:24:21
Speaker
is emulating, let's say, some living people usually like kitchen, joint kitchen, then they network. It's a good thing, of course, but definitely to respect this, let's say, private momentum.
00:24:37
Speaker
And I think this is now becoming better. At one point, the open spaces were such a hit. I'm not sure this was supported by actual needs of the workforce, but it does look better when somebody comes to you or notices to have this kind of space. It does look like you're not working, but you are.
00:24:59
Speaker
It should be very, very careful with it. Well, you can do that in an office space as well, to be honest. I mean, it's not a matter of productivity. I guess it's a more matter of a personal connection with other people, because when you're surrounded by so many others, there's no privacy, there's no, you know, the connection is missing.
00:25:23
Speaker
Yeah, it actually goes in the reverse way, you know, it actually should endorse like communication, but actually it goes the other way around. Yeah, because you know you're staying silent because you think you're interrupting someone else. Yes. So, yeah.
00:25:39
Speaker
I know, I know, I know. And I personally, I don't know when I find these boots, you know, this like super small boots where like you can have a hole, but it's really close to phobic and I'm really not sure it's doing its purpose. But that doesn't matter this. I mean, it's only one aspect, this let's say special arrangement and the number of people sharing a same office or a space. Nobody wants, right? Nobody wants to feel like a part of the system in a way that they are just
00:26:07
Speaker
let's say long rows of tables and chairs and these cubicons, of course it's not supporting health and well-being, I mean of course. So this is one thing, spatial arrangements, then of course the lightning can influence severely, you know, the spaces they don't have natural light, it's also, it kills you slowly, then of course the materials, the colors,
00:26:32
Speaker
Actually, everything is important. And also, it was interesting, this microclimate, there was discussion, as I think it's always popular. When you have people sharing the office, everybody likes different temperatures. Yeah, that was exactly the case. Someone wanted to open the window, someone wanted the air condition. So, yeah, it was fighting every day.
00:26:54
Speaker
There were some efforts made, I don't know what actually went with that by the end, to have this local climate as your desk. So actually the desk provides you extra heating, so if the heating is lower, you can actually create your microclimate at your desk, as desk if you have a feature and of course the whole system that supports your actually microclimate, which is again one of the interesting ideas. And you asked me the applications and this is it.
00:27:23
Speaker
Also, I would say, also for example, I mean, I talked about this, that's why I'm pointing out in any area, also for the hospitals in any area, we can talk about this. Also for gyms and spas, for example, and wellness centers, this is, I think, more than important as they are dealing with health, again, physical activity and wellness.
00:27:47
Speaker
And here there are different publications that we've done. There are people are now, let's say, arranging, I think you will show images, arranging their dreams and their spas, again, according to some guidelines for colors, for scents, for, again, the arrangements, the percentage of people in the room and the old things like this. It's very down to Earth.
00:28:12
Speaker
Of course, if you're not a designer that is designing the whole, let's say, maybe a whole district or something, you can be very simple and, of course, use these natural elements, natural analogues, so even a print. Yeah, I wanted to ask you, like, my last question for this conversation would be, like, how can we all, not just designers, but we all as human beings living in spaces, incorporate biophilic design in our everyday lives?
00:28:41
Speaker
Because I'm sure we can. We're just probably not thinking about it. Some of us, not all of us. Some people are really thinking about it, I guess.
00:28:51
Speaker
Yeah, sure, sure. Well, of course, biophilic design is a part, of course, of the living, I mean, interior design and arranging of your space, living space. So this is something that you can do, your designer of your own living space, at least. If you cannot design your workspace, at least living space you can.
00:29:13
Speaker
And your habits, you can have this biophilic, let's say lifestyle, or let's say, as I said from was talking about about biophilic personality, you can maybe also think about this a little bit. It's also definitely habits.
00:29:29
Speaker
You can, of course, spend some time in nature. I mean, all the normal things, I guess, that are very trendy today. And talking about biophilic design for interior spaces, don't forget, I think, when people are also buying flats or renting,
00:29:44
Speaker
Sometimes they forget to pay attention to the views and vistas or for example orientation. So you should think do you want sun in the morning? Do you want sun in the evening? Do you like the sunset? Then you want the west.
00:30:01
Speaker
or you want east orientation or south or you're an artist and want this, let's say, solid lighting, then you should head to north. So anyway, of course, using natural materials is always better. Pastel colors are calming. You know, you can also Google about which color actually
00:30:23
Speaker
supports which kind of activity. Don't overdo it with, of course, don't overdo it with colors. It's something that's what I guess architects would always say. So it's really as simple as this, for example, for common people to apply. So through materials, I guess, through this connection outside, inside spaces, the amount of, let's say,
00:30:53
Speaker
let's say, glass fuse that you have, I mean, the windows and similar, so it goes to this. But altogether, I will say again, coming back at the end of this conversation, I would also point out that, but this is more for designers, of course, than for a common audience, but you can also practice it at a daily basis. This is a lotogenic approach, which means
00:31:22
Speaker
protecting ourselves. We focus on factors that support health and well-being beyond more traditional, let's say, pathogenic focus on risk and problems. So, we should definitely live like that, that we don't get sick. If we get sick...
00:31:37
Speaker
by any kind of our activities that we eat, we don't eat well, we overwork maybe or something like that, then we have to mend everything that we've done. I think there is an interesting saying, was it Dalai Lama? I think that said,
00:31:57
Speaker
how it is interesting first we sacrifice our health to earn money to earn a lot of money and then we lose our health and then we have to spend this money to restore our health back so it's really like it's really ironic so
00:32:13
Speaker
Yeah, so biophilic design is actually about thinking in advance, like thinking about the future in every way, about our health, about our, let's say, environments, about the way we build our cities, because I'm not sure how biophilic they are today, but maybe that's going to change. I'm hoping that's going to change.
00:32:33
Speaker
I think it's very diverse. It's very diverse, depending really from a city to a city. New developments tend to lose this, let's say, sense of place. Maybe we need this, let's say, human scale. It's very important. I understand that, of course, demands for a lot of flats, for a lot of people being at the same place, it's always growing.
00:32:56
Speaker
And it's really a challenge, but it's really a complex issue. I mean, something called holistic approach is very important, but it's very, very hard to intersect all the systems. I mean, maybe in virtual planning, it's really complex. You do well on one parameter, but you sacrifice another. So, you know, it's really, really, really, really complex. That's why it's very important that, of course, different
00:33:25
Speaker
experts coming from different areas of expertise joined together. And don't forget to actually talk about all the parameters that are reported. It's easy just to talk about one, but if it influenced another, then again, we didn't do anything. It has to be a policy.
00:33:42
Speaker
Yeah, that makes sense. And then, again, goes well with the sustainability idea that sustainability is about communities, about teamwork, is about working together, and not about the individuals and heroes. Exactly. Yeah, so it all makes sense. Yeah, thank you, Yelena. This was a really awesome conversation. Thank you for giving us your knowledge to all of you who are watching this podcast.
00:34:11
Speaker
Please leave us your feedback. We would really appreciate that. I will ask Jelena some questions. I will let her know about them. And tell us if you if you knew about biophilic design before or you just heard about it and what do you think about it. So thank you all. Thank you, Jelena. And thank you for watching. See you in two weeks. Bye.