Transcript
Speaker: sometimes to assume that these things come easily to me and I'm not disturbed or upset but I am I just don't say them because I'm not good at expressing myself a lot of the times all right well I can tell you have an urge to identify those people but we won't ask you to do that here a rich man's world I have turned the storm of this beautiful land but they
Speaker: Hi everyone, welcome and thank you for tuning in for The Pengu Spective.
Speaker: We're your hosts Eric and Michael.
Speaker: And we have a special guest today, special Pengu if you will.
Speaker: Michael, if you do the introduction.
Speaker: Yeah, so she's a very special guest.
Speaker: She's a movement disorder neurologist and a very accomplished artiste.
Speaker: And she dabbles in all kinds of art from digital to pottery.
Speaker: And she's none other than my dear sister, Nita Chan.
Speaker: Whoa.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Are you there?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Hello, guys.
Speaker: I didn't know when I was supposed to chime in, but hi.
Speaker: I'm Nita.
Speaker: I'm Michael's older sister.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Thank you for joining, Nita.
Speaker: Thank you for having me.
Speaker: So I had my co-host send you some, you know, we like to start with some icebreaker questions to get to know you just a little bit before we dive in.
Speaker: So let's start.
Speaker: I'm going to give you an off the dome one that I didn't send you.
Speaker: So first question, a recent purchase that significantly improved your life.
Speaker: Oh, that's an easy one.
Speaker: A wagon.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: What is that?
Speaker: I don't need that.
Speaker: I can just carry everything myself.
Speaker: You know, it's not that difficult, but the tables are really heavy.
Speaker: And eventually I caved and I bought the wagon.
Speaker: It was like $70, I think.
Speaker: And it was the best purchase.
Speaker: I know.
Speaker: That's why I was like, I don't want to buy something so expensive just to transport.
Speaker: But it has made a significant difference in my vending experience because it is a lot easier to set up and especially to close down at the end of the day because you're tired after a whole day of vending.
Speaker: You really don't want to be carrying a bunch of heavy tables by yourself.
Speaker: Oh, yeah.
Speaker: I mean, I think that's $70 well spent.
Speaker: Oh, yeah.
Speaker: So, all right.
Speaker: Second question.
Speaker: What do you wish people assumed less about you?
Speaker: So I wish people didn't assume that my accomplishments were something easy to come by.
Speaker: And I think that's kind of confusing sometimes because people think, oh, wow, of course, you know, being a doctor is hard.
Speaker: Medical school is hard.
Speaker: Residency is hard.
Speaker: But I think maybe it's the way I come off or maybe when you're surrounded by people who are also very well accomplished, people feel like, oh, this is something that comes easy to you because you never show that you're struggling or
Speaker: You don't never show that you're having a hard time in the workplace.
Speaker: And during training, I wasn't really much of a complainer.
Speaker: I was always there to listen to other people's problems because I'm very empathetic.
Speaker: But I never really complained just because I felt like I didn't want to bother people.
Speaker: But sometimes I feel like people find that unsettling because they feel like, oh, you never complain.
Speaker: It means that everything is going well and it means everything is going smoothly.
Speaker: So I think people...
Speaker: Sometimes I assume that these things come easily to me and I'm not disturbed or upset.
Speaker: But I am.
Speaker: I just don't say them because I'm not good at expressing myself a lot of the times.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Well, I can tell you have an urge to identify those people, but we won't ask you to do that here.
Speaker: I think anyone who's been to your Instagram will know that, you know, it's a struggle.
Speaker: I mean, I've checked it out.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And you share some candid moments there, so...
Speaker: Yeah, I think it's definitely like if you're surrounded by people who compare you up the ladder, you're always going to get that perspective.
Speaker: That's why for the longest time I hid from my parents that Michael's going to specialty school.
Speaker: really yeah in fact dude i never said it it was uh charles who spilled the beans i don't think it's like something that you know they would like it's more that you know what i'm saying i think like you're doing fine i don't think i mean you know they're not gonna see it like that though now now it's and now it's like so eric why don't you think about look what you've done michael no it's really charles's fault he he spilled the beans and uh
Speaker: You know, these days, you know, I'm pretty happy.
Speaker: You know, I feel pretty relaxed.
Speaker: I work part time and I try to make money other ways.
Speaker: Kind of like you, Nina.
Speaker: And because I feel so stress free, they just think that the job that I do is inherently easy.
Speaker: Right, right.
Speaker: You must be suffering.
Speaker: And they don't realize that like I've already been through the corporate route.
Speaker: And I'm like, this is a deliberate decision that I made for my own health.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And it's just people just kind of get used to it.
Speaker: So I can definitely relate to that.
Speaker: Well, I think I can relate to that in a different way.
Speaker: Kind of like you, like this year, I feel like I finally found a job that is really good for me mentally and physically too.
Speaker: But before that, you know, when I was struggling a lot, having a lot of physical pain after my car accident and then just working, I felt like I almost had to act a little bit because my parents didn't think it was that hard when I was doing okay.
Speaker: Like if I didn't express that I was struggling, they didn't really believe me that I was having such a hard time.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: You know, I have to like look a little down, you know, like, and I'm not just pretending, but it's like when you're feeling down, you want to try to be positive to feel good.
Speaker: But I felt like if I tried to be positive, they kind of saw it as like, oh, he's doing okay.
Speaker: It's not a big deal.
Speaker: You know what I'm saying?
Speaker: Right, right.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, I mean, it seems kind of disengaged, but I think I totally relate, man.
Speaker: Yeah, people should know what's going on.
Speaker: They're going to make judgments about it.
Speaker: Sure.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: Transition.
Speaker: Elegant.
Speaker: Smooth.
Speaker: So, yeah, a transition right here.
Speaker: So...
Speaker: I don't know about you, Michael, but I separated the things that I was curious about, Nita, into three sections.
Speaker: One is arts.
Speaker: One is anxiety, depression.
Speaker: And the other one was wealth.
Speaker: Nita, I wanted to give you a choice of which one you wanted to explore first.
Speaker: I'm down for whatever you guys want.
Speaker: No, just pick one.
Speaker: This is Eric's thing.
Speaker: It makes it fun.
Speaker: Okay, fine.
Speaker: Let's do art then.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: Actually, Michael, why don't you, I'm sure you have some questions about art.
Speaker: Why don't you start us off then?
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Well, I actually thought, you know, this would be a fun topic for you too, because you have a, like a creative thing with your t-shirt design and business.
Speaker: So I actually have quite a couple of questions, but I think my basic one is for Nita, why do you think you're actually doing pretty successful in turning kind of your art into a business, you know, like with selling your stickers, your prints and your pottery?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Well, so kind of cliche, but I do it because I like it.
Speaker: And I think that's why it's successful.
Speaker: I have always liked to doodle my entire life.
Speaker: And it's something I've liked.
Speaker: So it wasn't like I went out of the way to look for a skill to hone to...
Speaker: create a business and it really started in unexpected ways because my drawings have always been very private to me I share them with friends and it's like haha that's funny you know this is a funny thing I drew but the more personal stuff I never really shared with anybody I kind of kept it in my own folder and it was really when other people kind of caught a glimpse of it and said hey that is very it's very heartwarming or they found it to be very
Speaker: relatable where I was like oh okay maybe I should share this and I started sharing some of my art and then eventually people said hey I would really love this like if I could buy it or things like that and I always grew up loving stickers you and I had sticker collections growing up so I was like I want a sticker and a lot of my stickers come from a place of wanting representation
Speaker: Like a lot of the healthcare field, you know, you think doctor, nurse, really, that's kind of it, right?
Speaker: There's so many different fields, and so many different sub specialties in healthcare.
Speaker: And it really is that kind of desire that everyone gets represented.
Speaker: That's kind of how I started with the stickers, I kind of asked all my friends and their different specialties, you know, what is a tool of tray?
Speaker: What is something when you see it, you're like, Oh, that is my field, that's represent representation right there.
Speaker: So and then I started drawing those, they got really popular over time.
Speaker: And then I started drawing to different healthcare, like the nurses, the physical therapists, occupational therapists.
Speaker: And then people got really excited about that.
Speaker: They're like, oh my God, like if you go online on Etsy or Amazon and you search like speech therapy, there's not a lot of products out there or like, you know, nutritionists, not a lot of stuff out there for that either.
Speaker: Just because they're not as well known.
Speaker: They're just all seen as like the supplementary healthcare, like supportive products.
Speaker: to the main cast of the hospital, but really we work as a whole system.
Speaker: So getting that representation, I think people appreciate that.
Speaker: And I think it was further reinforced when I've been going to these art events and people get so excited when they see that they're like, oh my God, you even have this thing from this field that's so obscure and nobody knows about.
Speaker: And that kind of really brings more joy to me and more motivation to create more art.
Speaker: So it really is kind of self-fulfilling prophecy, I guess, in the sense.
Speaker: I make things that I like.
Speaker: I find an audience that is pretty niche, but a big enough niche where people like it and will continue to support that.
Speaker: Actually, that's kind of interesting.
Speaker: I don't think I ever thought about stickers that way, you know, for representation.
Speaker: You know, I always thought it was like, oh, it's like kids like to have stickers and stuff.
Speaker: But now that I think about it, that can be like a very easy talking point.
Speaker: You know, like a lot of people like to put stickers on their water bottles.
Speaker: in their laptops you know and it could be like anime you're into or even your occupation if people see it they'll be like oh what's that about and then you can like oh well you know start talking about what you like yeah especially if you're even if you're not in your workplace right it's a way to connect with other people who are in your field but may not work in the same workplace as you do and that's kind of where it started and then they'll slowly branched over to other things like i'm a big proponent for lgbtqi plus so
Speaker: I started making different things in that I have a series of mermaid cats and they represent different pride flags and people get really excited because, you know, the standard one is the rainbow, right?
Speaker: And then there may or may not be like a lesbian one, a pansexual one.
Speaker: Recently, these two few years have been the trans flag that's been very popular.
Speaker: But then there's so many other flags and people get super excited when they see their flag because they're like, we never see anything like that.
Speaker: And kind of bring me joy.
Speaker: It's like, yeah, I see you.
Speaker: I hear you, you know?
Speaker: No, I was just kind of surprised that there would be such a crossover between the art that you represent and like, so I'm guessing those customers see you like in real life.
Speaker: Like, I just didn't think there would be like healthcare crossover in those kinds of markets.
Speaker: It's surprising how much there is.
Speaker: I think what I find of the art markets I've done so far, the ones I've done well in are typically people who are kind of adjacent or coming into healthcare.
Speaker: So I see a lot of like medical students or undergrads who are interested in med school and actually have gotten a couple of little mentorees from these art events because they get so excited and
Speaker: Now they're thinking about neurology or thinking about being a doctor, but they're worried.
Speaker: They don't know there are different paths and they see my sticker and they're like, what is that?
Speaker: And then we chat and then they're like, Oh my God, can I shadow you?
Speaker: Can I shadow neurology?
Speaker: And we always need neurologists.
Speaker: So I'm like, yes, come.
Speaker: So it's kind of been a really interesting experience.
Speaker: And I think the other thing is a good market in terms of like people want to buy stuff for other people, right?
Speaker: Like
Speaker: You have a family member or someone you know who got into nursing school, got into PA school.
Speaker: You want to represent them.
Speaker: Dental school.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: You know, honestly, every vendor event, I've had a couple of people who are like, do you have a dentist?
Speaker: I was like, no, it's with Michael.
Speaker: Well, so I just wanted to retrace your Instagram history.
Speaker: So April of 2018 was when you first posted, you know, kind of like the short panel artwork kind of thing.
Speaker: So I'm guessing that's when you got either somebody who inspired you to post or...
Speaker: I'm guessing you did this before you actually started posting it, but you had a particular person or like inspiration to post at that time.
Speaker: That's how you got started?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So I think you're totally right.
Speaker: It was, it started with a lot more random drawing.
Speaker: So I have, I carry it around a little,
Speaker: red notebook and I draw down things or I draw things that I'm interested in or little thoughts that I have during the medical school time and a couple times people saw my drawing or they always notice I have a red notebook and they're like what are you doing there and they take a look and they think it's interesting and what happened was they would pass it around they's like oh look at this look at this and then they start sharing it and then what happened afterwards was
Speaker: There were a couple of times where people were like, hey, can you send me a picture of that thing that you draw?
Speaker: Because I wanted to show someone else because I thought it was really funny or really relatable.
Speaker: And then as these occurrences started to happen more frequently, someone had commented that, hey, you should really post this somewhere because it's really interesting.
Speaker: And I think other people would enjoy seeing it or like, you know, get a laugh out of it.
Speaker: And I was like, Oh, you know, that's a great idea.
Speaker: I just before I didn't really think any of my artwork was really postable or like it wasn't anything unique or anything special.
Speaker: You know, I enjoy drawing, but I'm by no means like talented or have like any special skills.
Speaker: A lot of things are messy sketches anyway.
Speaker: And
Speaker: Interestingly, what I find is these sketchy, quick drawing things tend to be more relatable than the ones I spend a lot of hours on trying to perfect.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: You know, when you say like talented, I don't think that's a label that you give yourself.
Speaker: It's what other people give you.
Speaker: And clearly you've gotten enough of those feedback that I think you can't say that at this point.
Speaker: So like from 2018 and then I noticed you decided to add a little bit of color around August.
Speaker: And then it was like, it's pretty similar until I want to talk about December 2020 and after that, because
Speaker: That's when you start sharing live pictures.
Speaker: Your face, your Etsy shop, TikTok, and so forth.
Speaker: To me, there is a difference between me deciding to show my artwork and stuff and actually revealing my face.
Speaker: I still am very uncomfortable doing that publicly.
Speaker: All our pictures will have the painting.
Speaker: No, but because I think to me that's a different transition.
Speaker: I'm still not quite ready for it.
Speaker: How did that transition come about to be more public in your social media?
Speaker: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker: Eric, you think of very interesting things.
Speaker: Yeah, he's a deep thinker.
Speaker: You are a deep thinker.
Speaker: He's a philosopher.
Speaker: Yeah, so the transition actually, so when it started with black and white, because these were all things I drew on my notebook.
Speaker: So I would take a picture or scan them in from the library.
Speaker: And then
Speaker: They're black and white.
Speaker: I didn't really do any coloring.
Speaker: And then as it transitioned to more color, that was when I started doing digital media.
Speaker: So I got an iPad and I started drawing on there.
Speaker: So I still drew by hand for most of the time.
Speaker: And then I would scan it into the iPad and then color it on the iPad.
Speaker: And eventually I transitioned to almost pure digital where I drew the beginning and the sketches from everything from the iPad.
Speaker: And then, you know, I was, like you said, like I felt very uncomfortable showing my face because who am I?
Speaker: Just a random person and just let the art speak for itself.
Speaker: And then kind of over time, it really started was when I started doing the art events.
Speaker: So I did one art event in residency and I
Speaker: That was the only one I did.
Speaker: And then the pandemic hit, so we never got to do any again.
Speaker: But it was so incredibly fun.
Speaker: And people saw a lot of my art pictures, and they really liked it, and they liked the comics.
Speaker: And some of them actually said, oh, I follow you on Instagram.
Speaker: I didn't know that was you.
Speaker: And then kind of over time, as I became a neurologist transitioning from a medical student, it became more apparent to me that there is a face to neurologists.
Speaker: And the face of neurologists is a boring old man.
Speaker: who wears a bow tie and is not very fun.
Speaker: And I think that needs to change because neurologists are not, they don't all look like that.
Speaker: So I started putting some of my videos on and some of my pictures on to kind of show people that, you know, neurologists come in different shapes and sizes.
Speaker: We look different and we are very approachable.
Speaker: I think a lot of people find neurologists very scary because they're like, oh, you study the brain and it's serious business.
Speaker: And
Speaker: neurodegenerative disease.
Speaker: So that's kind of when I started putting things up more.
Speaker: And I think it's been generally a good way to kind of change people's perspective.
Speaker: And I think the biggest impact is on aspiring medical people.
Speaker: So medical students or young residents, they get very excited because they're like, oh, this is super interesting.
Speaker: This was a field I never even considered before.
Speaker: And now this seems way more fun, you know?
Speaker: And I think that's a good way to get more people in.
Speaker: I'm just trying to get by and from neurology.
Speaker: That's the bottom line.
Speaker: I mean, I think it's always good to start in a niche though.
Speaker: Because like, obviously if you start as a doctor, you know, figures like Dr. Mike is out there.
Speaker: Like there's the competition, hyper competitive, as opposed to a neurology TikToker.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: You're the only one I know.
Speaker: So gotcha.
Speaker: Gotcha.
Speaker: As far as your Etsy shop, have you tried other websites?
Speaker: You know, like, I know like Redbubble, Zazzle, eBay.
Speaker: I mean, a lot of people who work in this online sales, they consider kind of branching out, kind of like a social media.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker: Is there anything particularly useful about Etsy?
Speaker: And do you have other websites that you utilize?
Speaker: Yeah, so I actually didn't start with Etsy.
Speaker: I started with Redbubble and I started with Society6 because it's free for you to upload, right?
Speaker: And then it removes a lot of the extra work, right?
Speaker: Because they print everything.
Speaker: You just upload the design that you want.
Speaker: Yeah, and it's just kind of, you know, you get some extra dollars and you're like, oh, yeah, someone bought my stuff.
Speaker: But I think over time what happened for me was that I felt like I wanted more customization of the things I wanted to create.
Speaker: There was a lot of limitations on the sizing for the stickers, the resolution of the stickers.
Speaker: I couldn't really see what they looked like.
Speaker: I had to like, you know, you have to order your own to see the sample and, you know.
Speaker: And I did feel like with Redbubble, the resolution quality is not as high as I would like it.
Speaker: I would agree.
Speaker: There's a lot of things that you can print, but the resolution is not perfect.
Speaker: And a lot of the things I draw are really small and super detailed, so it just didn't cut it.
Speaker: And then Society6 does print a lot of things at higher resolution, but it's so darn expensive.
Speaker: So I just felt like, well, you know what?
Speaker: I think...
Speaker: Maybe I could print a few things for myself.
Speaker: And then I started looking at Etsy.
Speaker: I had a lot of hesitation with Etsy because Etsy is so vast.
Speaker: It's really hard to search for anything there unless you're very well established.
Speaker: You have a lot of like big audience members or people who are always buying stuff.
Speaker: People who have smaller niches for things.
Speaker: It's really hard to search for stuff there.
Speaker: There's a lot of things.
Speaker: If you type in brain, pages and pages and pages of things, right?
Speaker: So I just didn't really think there was a place for me on Etsy at first.
Speaker: And then over time, I started printing some things.
Speaker: I printed some art prints and then I started doing some stickers.
Speaker: And then I kind of just put it up there to see how things would go.
Speaker: And, you know, at first, the first few months, there was like no traffic, right?
Speaker: You really, I think what I found was Etsy, it works in terms of,
Speaker: if you have to bring the traffic to Etsy, the discoverability of Etsy is that high, right?
Speaker: It's just a platform for you to sell.
Speaker: So that's kind of where I am.
Speaker: I'm just slowly working.
Speaker: I think I need to make a website eventually.
Speaker: That's something I've been kind of pondering around, you know, especially if I sell things at art events, I can still showcase, I create an art portfolio or something like that.
Speaker: But honestly, I've just been very lazy and haven't really done it yet.
Speaker: Yeah, I mean, you have a full-time job.
Speaker: So right now, you're just leveraging your Instagram and your TikTok to drag crafting.
Speaker: Gotcha.
Speaker: Gotcha.
Speaker: Yeah, I actually think her big incomes with her art is at the art events.
Speaker: She's been to quite a few now.
Speaker: And every time she goes for a day, she makes on average about $1,000.
Speaker: And it's not like you're doing extra work there.
Speaker: You just display everything you already have.
Speaker: That's really impressive.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I really enjoy these art events.
Speaker: And like, definitely, I mean, for me, I think the perspective is very different because for me, it's like, I'm just going there to have fun.
Speaker: If I make extra money, awesome.
Speaker: If I can break even and, you know, pay for all of the things that I do by buying art supplies and, you know, my $70 wagon.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: then, you know, it's worth it.
Speaker: If I make extra, great, right?
Speaker: This is by no means my livelihood.
Speaker: So there's no stress, right?
Speaker: And I do see a lot of art vendors who are, they're hustling, right?
Speaker: Like they're going to every farmer's market, every art event that they can make.
Speaker: And like, gosh, that pressure must be so high.
Speaker: So you really have to market your art.
Speaker: I price my things where I think is reasonable.
Speaker: I have some things where I feel like I really like this.
Speaker: I'm going to price what it's worth.
Speaker: Nobody buys it.
Speaker: I don't care.
Speaker: And so it's really fun for me to go and I can chat with a lot of people.
Speaker: A lot of times I get to hear some very impressive stories.
Speaker: And, you know, I also get some mentees because they're interested in neurology or just doctors.
Speaker: And, you know, as a woman and as a person of color, there's a lot to learn from in terms of, you know, aspiring people.
Speaker: Because when I when I was thinking back, I was just telling Michael this yesterday.
Speaker: When I was thinking back on my career, I've been very blessed to have amazing mentors in my medical career.
Speaker: And all of them have been Caucasian men.
Speaker: I don't think I've had any mentors who were persons of color.
Speaker: And I think that's important to get that representation out there.
Speaker: And so when I do have some folks come in to my art event and they love it, they're like, you must be in some healthcare.
Speaker: I was like, oh, I'm a neurologist.
Speaker: And they get very excited because they're like, what's your experience like?
Speaker: How has it been?
Speaker: Is it worth it?
Speaker: What are the struggles that you experience?
Speaker: Because it's different and it's unique.
Speaker: And so I've actually, yesterday, I just met with a third year undergrad student.
Speaker: She's studying for her MCATs and she really wanted to do medicine, but she was worried about what's it like to be a woman in healthcare.
Speaker: And she was wondering about medicine versus research.
Speaker: We met up and had a long chat with it.
Speaker: And I think it was really helpful for her.
Speaker: So that's good.
Speaker: Nice.
Speaker: I mean, I really like that you carry this into IRL consequences.
Speaker: I think that's where the real work gets done anyway.
Speaker: So that's very cool.
Speaker: I got one last question.
Speaker: So one of the things that was very frustrating when, you know, when my t-shirt started popping off was I started to get all these copycats.
Speaker: Ah.
Speaker: So it's a digital product that are a lot easier to copy, print for like, you know, pixel for pixel.
Speaker: And they would just like change the font a little bit to escape the infringement.
Speaker: And then they lowball the price.
Speaker: And the first time it happened to me, I got so upset.
Speaker: I'm sure.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But I wanted to know, like, obviously in real life, like your, you know, your ceramics or things like you can't just like, you know, copy and paste.
Speaker: But some of the artworks that you had, like another flower artwork around like organs and stuff.
Speaker: It really reminds me of the macabre beauty of a show like Hannibal, like the cannibals, something like that.
Speaker: I imagine as beautiful as it is, I was like, oh, that could be copied.
Speaker: I want to know, have you ever encountered or seen any copycats online or IRL?
Speaker: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker: That sucks that somebody copied your art design.
Speaker: Come on, that's dumb.
Speaker: But I actually haven't seen any yet that I know of.
Speaker: Maybe they are and I just don't know about it.
Speaker: I don't think my, I don't have that big of an audience to track for people to see that.
Speaker: I do have, I've had friends who send me stuff.
Speaker: They're like, oh my God, they were totally stealing your idea.
Speaker: I was like, no, it's just flowers and art.
Speaker: Like anyone can do that.
Speaker: Like, I don't think it's like a blatant copy.
Speaker: But, you know, it inspires people.
Speaker: people to do similar things i also embed my signature in all of my artwork for my digital artwork and it's my mandarin signature and you can't erase it from or like if you erased it from the artwork itself there would be a hole like it's part of the artwork so i think that's my little way of like gotcha this is my art piece well i don't think uh artificial intelligence cares about your signature but no yeah mandarin signature so it's not cool enough all right michael you got some something else
Speaker: Yeah, I just wanted to see kind of like, you know, now that you've come this far, what is still your main goal with your art?
Speaker: You know, is it the art itself?
Speaker: Or is there a goal with like how much you want to achieve with like monetary wise?
Speaker: Or as an artist, you know, are you like looking for like, recognition with your art, you know, that you want your art to be very impactful?
Speaker: Or what is your kind of main goal from doing that?
Speaker: Continuing to do this stuff.
Speaker: Well, I think first and foremost, I'm still a clinician, still a neurologist.
Speaker: I think that will be probably my source of primary income for as long as I can.
Speaker: Art for me is, I think part of the reason I enjoy it so much is that it's not my income.
Speaker: I don't depend on it to live.
Speaker: I do it if I want to.
Speaker: And if I don't do it, then it's fine.
Speaker: That's on me.
Speaker: So I think in terms of the business perspective, I think I probably will continue to hold the same
Speaker: Attitude of as long as I make enough to feed my habit, to feed my hobby, then I'll be happy if I make more.
Speaker: That's cool.
Speaker: That's great.
Speaker: My cat will just live a better life and have luxurious cat trees.
Speaker: But if not, that's okay with me.
Speaker: I think I do art because I like it and I enjoy it.
Speaker: But I also enjoy the outreach.
Speaker: I think I envision myself continuing to do as much as art.
Speaker: the art events as I can.
Speaker: They take a lot out of you though because you talk to a lot of people.
Speaker: The setup is kind of physically tiring.
Speaker: It's been pretty unique that Gainesville, Florida has quite a big artist community and artisan community.
Speaker: So they have quite a lot of art events and a lot of people come to them from all over Florida.
Speaker: Florida is really big.
Speaker: So I don't know how that's going to translate when they go back to California.
Speaker: But if I can't, I would still love to do that.
Speaker: I love interacting with people about my artwork.
Speaker: It kind of
Speaker: The whole idea of being represented and seen, I think, is a really important aspect of my art because I feel like for a lot of my life, I didn't feel represented or seen.
Speaker: And having that is very fulfilling and a really meaningful way to connect with somebody.
Speaker: My anatomy flowers are...
Speaker: meaningful to me because I think anatomy is beautiful.
Speaker: I think a lot of people think anatomy is gross, there's blood, but you know, it's what keeps us alive, right?
Speaker: And it's very beautiful in its own way.
Speaker: The physiology is also very beautiful.
Speaker: And I actually had a patient, or not a patient, I'm sorry.
Speaker: One of the customers came in on one of my events.
Speaker: He looked at my heart artwork for a long time.
Speaker: And then he goes, you know, this art piece is really meaningful to me.
Speaker: He bought the print.
Speaker: And what he told me was that he had open heart surgery several years ago.
Speaker: He actually pulled down his shirt to show me the big scar that he had.
Speaker: It's a huge scar, right?
Speaker: You get keloids.
Speaker: It's not a beautiful scar.
Speaker: And he was like, and I always hated my scar because it's ugly, right?
Speaker: And it's very visible.
Speaker: If you...
Speaker: go to the pool, like everybody sees it.
Speaker: And he's very thankful that he got early detection and his heart is doing well now, but he always hated that part of his scar.
Speaker: He hated that his heart isn't normal in the sense of like it's been surgically improved.
Speaker: But I guess something about the art piece made him kind of change his perspective.
Speaker: And he felt like now he can kind of forgive himself for that scar and he can love his scar.
Speaker: And I thought that was so touching that he got, he felt so much just from...
Speaker: an art print right so i love that and those experiences make it worth it for me like if i had only sold that one print even if he didn't buy that print i would have been like oh that's worth it so there's no there's no desire to like create a masterpiece and like have it in a museum one day
Speaker: No, I think that would be so strange.
Speaker: That's probably that imposter syndrome, right?
Speaker: Like I do art.
Speaker: I don't really consider myself artist.
Speaker: I know it's what people coin you, but I'm kind of like, I don't know.
Speaker: Like I don't have formal training.
Speaker: You know, I just make things for fun.
Speaker: Gotcha.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: Shall we move on?
Speaker: Sure.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: I'll do the wealth one because I think that's a pretty quick one.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So yeah, I'm not, you know, honestly, like I was thinking about like, when did I actually like get to like, you know, talk to and be with Nita.
Speaker: And like, that's like high school.
Speaker: Like when you were in Monta Vista.
Speaker: That's true.
Speaker: That was a long time ago.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Everything else I just kind of hear, you know, via Michael, what you're up to and stuff.
Speaker: But, yeah, I haven't really gotten to like one-on-one with you.
Speaker: And one of the things I found interesting was apparently you got to be in this circle of friends who might be considered wealthy.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: I just, I wanted to know, like, I'm very interested in the subtle ways that these wealthy people behave in society.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: And I wanted to know, like, anything particular you want to share about, like, what you learned about how they move, what limiting beliefs it helps you to break, or anything you want to talk about that.
Speaker: I don't even know if you know what I'm talking about.
Speaker: I kind of do.
Speaker: I
Speaker: Maybe I'll answer and you'll be like, that was not what I was going for.
Speaker: Let me just give you a hint.
Speaker: Apparently, they started a spice business.
Speaker: Yes, they did.
Speaker: Okay, okay.
Speaker: Okay, is that what you wanted me to talk about?
Speaker: Yeah, I mean, I never considered us to be wealthy like that, you know?
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Like, I own Florida wealthier, you know, that kind of stuff.
Speaker: Sure, sure.
Speaker: I wanted to know, like, you know, if you got in that circle, like, anything, like, oh, interesting.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I guess.
Speaker: I mean, I don't know if I'm in the circle.
Speaker: Well, so I met my friend in residency.
Speaker: So it was during my first year.
Speaker: I was a prelim medical, a prelim resident doing medicine.
Speaker: So we rotate with internal medicine for the first year for neurology training.
Speaker: So I met her there and she was an internal medicine resident.
Speaker: We were both very weird and just enjoyed each other's company.
Speaker: We became really good friends very quickly.
Speaker: Didn't really know about her wealth status at all.
Speaker: And it didn't really come out like at any early point of our relationship.
Speaker: We were just good friends.
Speaker: We hung out and all that stuff.
Speaker: And then...
Speaker: Eventually, I met her husband, who was a family medicine doctor, also very well-to-do, it sounds like.
Speaker: And I was like, okay, these are my good friends.
Speaker: I didn't really think too much about it.
Speaker: And I think it only came up over time slowly as I was like, wait, why do you guys have a house already?
Speaker: I'm like, why are you guys driving nice cars?
Speaker: I'll say that's the first sign wouldn't it be like yeah not being so flashy about it yeah they were just not flashy about it and they've never been flashy about it like they don't flaunt it I think I don't know if that's a thing that like truly wealthy people are like I don't I think so I don't think you see well I think a wealthy person doesn't wear a Gucci sweatshirt right you won't even know the brand
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Exactly.
Speaker: I can see Nina being like in the helicopter.
Speaker: It's like, why do you guys, why do you guys have a helicopter?
Speaker: I think it was like the third time I went to their house and that was all of a sudden like, wait, you own this house.
Speaker: And she was like, oh yeah.
Speaker: I was like, but you're a resident.
Speaker: And she was like, yeah.
Speaker: Why do you own this house again?
Speaker: And then she just laughed at me.
Speaker: She's like, it took you this long to figure it out.
Speaker: And then Will's like, I don't know.
Speaker: I just thought maybe you just have a house.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: You got it on a good deal, something.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: But yeah, kind of like small things, right?
Speaker: And I think what I found out over time is like, you know, at least for me, something that I learned is you spend money on things that are worth it to you.
Speaker: There are things that you spend money on that make your life convenient.
Speaker: And I feel like people who are wealthy are okay with spending that money.
Speaker: I think I, I mean, I wouldn't say we're poor, but I remember growing up when my parents didn't have a lot of money.
Speaker: And I, and I think that mentality like kind of always continues.
Speaker: It's like you only buy what you absolutely need.
Speaker: If you can get around it without buying an extra thing, then don't pay for it.
Speaker: It's like the wagon, right?
Speaker: Coming back full circle to the wagon.
Speaker: I don't need it.
Speaker: I can do things without it, but it makes my life a whole lot easier.
Speaker: And so like my interactions with them and my friendship with them has kind of slowly allowed me to feel less guilty about buying these things.
Speaker: And like, well, I want it.
Speaker: It makes me happy and I enjoy it.
Speaker: I'm making my own money now.
Speaker: So yeah, it's a little more expensive, but I think it's worth it.
Speaker: I think it's really important to hang out with people who are like vastly better from time to time.
Speaker: Just to help you break potential frugality mindsets or limiting beliefs.
Speaker: Oh, yeah.
Speaker: When I heard about the anecdote about the spice business, it stuck with me for a while because there were things that I wanted to like, the products that I wanted to design and sell and LLC and stuff.
Speaker: But it's just like, I just kept shelving it because I didn't have anyone around me.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: who would just like do that.
Speaker: Like they're all employees.
Speaker: Everyone I know are like employees.
Speaker: I don't, I don't know any business owners.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And I don't think that's very good.
Speaker: I wish I was around those people because I think that would have motivated me to like really go for entrepreneurships.
Speaker: That's, that's one of my things that I wish I really did an honest try in my early twenties.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And I think I, other thing I learned about them is that they're very selective about their friends and,
Speaker: which makes sense, right?
Speaker: I'm sure there are a lot of people who want to take advantage and, you know, ask for money and like ask for favors and all that stuff.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: But yeah, I mean, I made, I did not even know that they were like pretty wealthy until later on and,
Speaker: I do wonder though, like, so once you realize, like, how did you carry yourself so you didn't develop like an unconscious power dynamic or, you know, like, you know what I'm talking about?
Speaker: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker: I think it's not as relevant of a question for me because I have been very fortunate in my life to not worry about money very much, right?
Speaker: Like we didn't grow up so wealthy, but like, you know,
Speaker: The things we wanted, we got.
Speaker: And I'm very fortunate to be in a profession where I make pretty good money, right?
Speaker: So I'm not going to live lavishly, but I'm not going to starve to death and live bill to bill.
Speaker: So I think because of that, I've never cared that much about money.
Speaker: A lot of my desires are more experienced than anything else.
Speaker: I don't really want.
Speaker: I don't want to live in a mansion.
Speaker: I don't want to buy some exclusive weird thing that's super expensive.
Speaker: I don't have those desires.
Speaker: So for me, when I found out they were wealthy, I was kind of like, oh, great.
Speaker: Good for you.
Speaker: Like, that's awesome.
Speaker: but that doesn't really impact me.
Speaker: I don't think it changed.
Speaker: Yeah, sure.
Speaker: Of course, of course.
Speaker: It didn't change my perspective.
Speaker: I wasn't intimidated to be like, oh my God, they're a different level.
Speaker: I can't, you know, whatever.
Speaker: But that's probably because I already knew them for quite a while.
Speaker: So that never played into the equation.
Speaker: You're like, they're not as good a doctor than me anyway.
Speaker: What the hell?
Speaker: No.
Speaker: I mean, also, yeah, put that in context.
Speaker: If we were in a residency, I'm just trying to survive, right?
Speaker: Didn't really have a lot of time to think about other stuff.
Speaker: Gotcha.
Speaker: I do h ave a feeling as you get older, convenience will be more and more of a factor you'd be willing to splurge on though.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah, definitely.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And it's really helped and helpful, like seeing them and like their values kind of helped me be like, okay, I think it's, is this worth my time or is this worth my money?
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: So, yeah.
Speaker: I think that's something I never considered before, especially in my early 20s.
Speaker: I was like, everything is not worth my money.
Speaker: It's worth my time.
Speaker: I'm just going to spend time.
Speaker: Gotcha.
Speaker: Gotcha.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: Well, that's all we have for this week.
Speaker: Thank you for joining us.
Speaker: And we'll see you back in two weeks for part two of our talk with Nita, which goes in depth about mental health, anxiety, and depression.
Speaker: For now, here's a sneak peek of what to expect for the next episode.
Speaker: And then I started med school and my boyfriend at that time was like, you need to see somebody because you will not survive med school this way.
Speaker: He said that, you know, in college you got by okay, but you lost three hours every day.
Speaker: You know, I was like, what do you mean I lost three hours every day?
Speaker: And so apparently I would come home from school, from classes or whatever.
Speaker: And then I would lie in bed and cry for three hours.
Speaker: It's non-responsive.
Speaker: Like he would try to talk to me.
Speaker: I wouldn't do anything.
Speaker: The cats would climb on top of me.
Speaker: I would just cry.
Speaker: I didn't remember losing three hours and not that frequently.
Speaker: It was like nearly every day from what he said.
