Transcript
Speaker: your friend or your partner, it's something you probably want to keep for the rest of your life.
Speaker: You know, if you don't put in effort, you will lose then.
Speaker: All right, what's up, guys?
Speaker: You're tuning into the Pengu Spective.
Speaker: We are your hosts, Eric.
Speaker: And Michael.
Speaker: Episode 15, we got a special Pengu with us today.
Speaker: I think we both agree, one of our oldest mutual friends.
Speaker: And we've been fortunate enough to still keep in touch, not much online, but more importantly, in person.
Speaker: And now I have him joining us in the podcast.
Speaker: The Gen Z might dub him the Riz God, while we still just consider him the life of the party.
Speaker: We're grateful to have Chung Kang Wang here.
Speaker: Hello, hello.
Speaker: So my first question, I got some icebreaker questions.
Speaker: Some I asked you to think about before.
Speaker: Some I'm just going to give you off the dome.
Speaker: Sure.
Speaker: Let's start off the dome here.
Speaker: So I wanted to branch off the intro.
Speaker: And, you know, let me give you some flowers here.
Speaker: So I was sending some texts to Chung Kang on Facebook Messenger prior to this about the things I wanted to think about before the pod.
Speaker: And I actually scrolled up and last time I texted him was like in 2018 and then before it was like 2016.
Speaker: So it's been a while, but let me share some details here.
Speaker: So 2016 was like my white coat ceremony and he asked me to hang out and, you know, I couldn't obviously because it w as a ceremony.
Speaker: But I also share some like angst regarding treating real life patients at that point because that's what I was about to do.
Speaker: In 2018, I actually sent you a picture of you and Ben.
Speaker: I took from upstairs at the Joe Hiaishi concert, which I found was funny because the last time we hung out, you were like, oh, we saw each other last time at the concert.
Speaker: And I kept saying like, no, we didn't.
Speaker: There was no concert.
Speaker: And I was the one who actually took the photo and let you know.
Speaker: And he gave me an amazing hug.
Speaker: I love Chung Kang's hugs.
Speaker: It brings out the joy of inner child in me.
Speaker: But I bring this up because the point is, every time I left a conversation with this guy, I feel good.
Speaker: You know, I feel heard.
Speaker: I feel acknowledged.
Speaker: And I realized later down the road that I was very not good at delivering these kind of feelings to people that I interacted with.
Speaker: So one question that I asked myself before interactions that helped me achieve similar feelings in other people that I talked to after that point is like, if I left this interaction or phone call or conversation, like, would this person feel good about what just happened?
Speaker: Or like, would that person want to do this again?
Speaker: And I think these questions are more obvious to think about, like in dating, but not so much in friendships, at least to me.
Speaker: And I didn't learn this from Chung Kang, but from other important friends I have.
Speaker: But it's certainly, in retrospect, I came to really appreciate this quality in him.
Speaker: So, you know, I think you really got it in terms of that kind of charisma.
Speaker: That's where the riz is from, apparently.
Speaker: That charisma, that magnetism.
Speaker: I think you have it.
Speaker: It's something very natural to you.
Speaker: So, like, my follow-up question is, like, were you aware you're, like, a charismatic person?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I guess, yeah.
Speaker: I've always been the leaders among my friends when I was young, since elementary school or even kindergarten.
Speaker: But the part about making people feel good or feel heard, it's something that's surprising to me because I just had a relationship where I learned a lot.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: that I don't make my partner feel hurt.
Speaker: And it's one of the biggest topic or big conflict is that I seems to care more about my friends than my partner.
Speaker: Gotcha.
Speaker: I mean, listen, it's 2023 now, so things may have changed.
Speaker: But for me, again, I'm not saying you have to be this person or no.
Speaker: I'm not trying to project an identity on you, but I just want to let you know that you certainly made me feel this way.
Speaker: And it's not something that I could put words into until later down the road when I like, oh, this is the kind of person he is.
Speaker: And like the request, like thing of like asking me, like, or asking your other friends, like, hey, can you hang out or you want to hang out?
Speaker: I really value that, you know, because as people get older, you get less and less and less of those.
Speaker: So yeah, yeah, no, that's really appreciate you.
Speaker: No, I think that was a huge part of how you attracted so many people around you.
Speaker: Just being the first one to kind of step out and put yourself out there and ask.
Speaker: I think it's easier said than done.
Speaker: Yeah, thank you for sharing that.
Speaker: I think maybe it's related to my immigration to the America.
Speaker: I lost a lot of my friends because of the time zone difference and technology wasn't as advanced then.
Speaker: So I was very lonely.
Speaker: So in order to keep friendship, I have to constantly reach out.
Speaker: And it's just very rewarding because when people respond, I get fun time, you know, so it becomes like a reinforcement.
Speaker: I guess it's good to know that it also brings joy to other people.
Speaker: Yeah, definitely for me.
Speaker: Let me move on to the next question here.
Speaker: This is off the dome, I think.
Speaker: Recent purchase that significantly improved your life.
Speaker: Anything come to mind?
Speaker: I did buy a new chair like a few weeks ago, but I don't know how significantly it has improved my life.
Speaker: Like a gaming chair?
Speaker: No, like an ergonomic chair.
Speaker: Actually, this is not that related, but I went to Korea recently and then I saw it.
Speaker: I've been
Speaker: looking for like a good ergonomic chair for a long time because working like office or my job sitting posture is always a big thing and in fact I had to go do physical therapy before since my posture wasn't good it's like making my body feels like aching in certain ways and I never really found the chairs that I really like until I went to Korea recently and there's this
Speaker: new chair called dual back or dual rest chair and it basically has a back technology that caters to your back and it just feels really comfortable when you sit in it and and i finally got it so i don't know how it's going to change my life but we'll see i'm still in the experiment so you haven't tried it yet
Speaker: I tried it.
Speaker: I tried it.
Speaker: I just got it.
Speaker: But I think you need to sit in it for at least like a few months to really know.
Speaker: But I would say not a recent purchase, but that did change a lot of my life.
Speaker: There are two things.
Speaker: One is the jacket and one is a pull-up bar.
Speaker: I don't know which one you guys want to be.
Speaker: Well, let's go to the pull-up bar.
Speaker: Okay, yeah, so I'm a climber and I love exercise.
Speaker: So then this pull-up bar, whenever I go by it, I hang on it and I pull up.
Speaker: And in fact, I recently read on YouTube or watched the YouTube shorts that hanging on a pull-up bar is really good for a posture or like
Speaker: good for lengthening your back and stretching as well.
Speaker: So I try to hang on for minutes and it's really been good for my health and also for my fingers because my fingers often get injured from climbing and just hang on to it kind of trains it somehow.
Speaker: So it's been a, this is actually life-changing.
Speaker: Oh, wow.
Speaker: It decompresses your spine, right?
Speaker: Yes, exactly.
Speaker: Gotcha.
Speaker: Wait, is this one of those things you hang on like a door?
Speaker: No, no, no.
Speaker: So I usually have something like that, but those tends to break the frame or if you're heavy enough, it can leap mark.
Speaker: This is a pull-up tower where it can be standalone.
Speaker: And you can also use it to train other cool calisthenics stuff like front liver and all that stuff.
Speaker: Gotcha.
Speaker: Next question.
Speaker: You can share this if you want.
Speaker: Most embarrassing thing that happened on a date?
Speaker: Yeah, actually, Eric made me think about this before the podcast, and it took me a while.
Speaker: There's like two stories.
Speaker: One of them is I went on a date with a person from the online dating app.
Speaker: And then after the coffee, I like to walk around.
Speaker: In fact, I prefer to walk around in the park and stuff.
Speaker: So then we went by nearby, I don't know, area, I guess.
Speaker: And that area just happened to have a lot of bird poop and even dog poop.
Speaker: And as we're walking, I'm just like worried.
Speaker: Like, no, maybe I'll step on it or something.
Speaker: But I just like walk around.
Speaker: And then suddenly I saw her like steps heading toward the poop.
Speaker: And then in my mind, it's like play out in slow motion.
Speaker: And I was like, should I stop her?
Speaker: Should I do something?
Speaker: But this is our first date.
Speaker: And I just saw her step on it.
Speaker: And I just burst out laughing.
Speaker: Because in my mind, it's like, it's so slow.
Speaker: I could have prevented it, but I didn't.
Speaker: And then she just walked right into that.
Speaker: And then, yeah, I did not see her again afterward.
Speaker: It's still funny.
Speaker: But yeah, that's kind of embarrassing.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Oh, wow.
Speaker: Did she say anything?
Speaker: She's like, oh, what the heck?
Speaker: And then I just, like, I tried really hard to control my laughter and obviously did not end in a good vibe afterward.
Speaker: Oh, really?
Speaker: I imagine that it'd be more embarrassing for her rather than for you.
Speaker: The thing is, I laughed, right?
Speaker: Like, clearly, like, she knows I'm trying to hold back my laughter and just when someone is already misfortunate.
Speaker: She wasn't cool about it, you know?
Speaker: Well, oh yeah, sure, sure, sure.
Speaker: But it's kind of mean, but it's just so funny to me still.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I'll say at least one of you needed to have more riz in that situation.
Speaker: Is that the theme that you're trying to force?
Speaker: Oh, no.
Speaker: I can totally see.
Speaker: It's funny to me because I can imagine you not being able to control your laughter.
Speaker: Yeah, I can picture that.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker: Oh, I got a question.
Speaker: Since we're talking about dating, if you have any moments about the kind of most like simplest thing you've done.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker: wait is that the simpus no no i don't think there's a word for it but you know the most simple thing yeah most simple yeah yeah i'm actually a very i would say frugal person per se but in the beginning of dating i matched with this like girl on bumble and she was very very hot and then i was actually with my friend and then the moment we match we're just like oh shit
Speaker: Then we start chatting her up and stuff.
Speaker: And then a few days later, she called me.
Speaker: And then she was like, hey, can we talk?
Speaker: And I'm like, yeah, sure.
Speaker: And then suddenly, I was like, wow, her voice is very pretty.
Speaker: I'm just like, wow, head over heels for this person's picture.
Speaker: And we just have small talks and then someone, she's like, I just want you to know that actually I have a kid and I want to share this with you before we meet and make sure you're okay with it.
Speaker: And then I just like was shocked.
Speaker: And I was like, yeah.
Speaker: it's okay.
Speaker: You know, everyone has their own circumstance.
Speaker: And she's like, oh, thank God you're okay.
Speaker: Yeah, because most people are a little like careful.
Speaker: They don't want to date people with kids, but I'm glad you're so understanding.
Speaker: And then she also told me that the person who got her pregnant, I guess, the ex-boyfriend is in jail or something.
Speaker: And then like, oh yeah, it's okay.
Speaker: It's okay.
Speaker: Let's just, you know, meet up and talk more.
Speaker: We'll figure it out in person because I'm very...
Speaker: I feel like meeting in person, you get a different vibe and you'll probably get a better story.
Speaker: And like talking on the phone is not good enough for me.
Speaker: I think that's like the simplest thing I've done.
Speaker: I mean, like the fact that I'm still head over heels for her after all the red flag thing that she has told me and I still want to meet up with her.
Speaker: And she also lived like really far, like an hour and 30 minute drive away, which I usually would never drive that far to just meet a person if it's like not a friend.
Speaker: And then somehow it did not work out or something.
Speaker: Maybe in the text- Wait, wait, wait.
Speaker: You skipped a lot of- So did you actually meet up in person?
Speaker: No, we never met up.
Speaker: I think something about I was- I was spending a long time to inviting her on a date because I was like, keep thinking about this kind of thing.
Speaker: And maybe that length of waiting threw her off or put her off.
Speaker: So then we never meeting in person, which-
Speaker: alliance size very good very good yeah but that was uh bro i don't know are you sure like this one like aren't there like scams on dating websites where like once you go there like it's like in an alley and then you get mugged and stuff yes that could very much made me think about that yes yes it's very good that nothing bad happened but
Speaker: But I mean, I did look her up on Facebook, you know, and just like, oh, you know, she seems like a normal person.
Speaker: She's real?
Speaker: Yeah, she's, well, she seems to be real.
Speaker: And then later on, I check and then she seems to found another person.
Speaker: I also saw her kid on Facebook and I was like, okay.
Speaker: But it doesn't matter.
Speaker: Oh, nice.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Dude, I know for sure there are like IG accounts of like AI generated women, like pretending like they have like a following, which is pretty scary.
Speaker: That was a long time ago, like 2017, maybe for even 16.
Speaker: Oh, okay.
Speaker: So before the AI art or AI generated art is that good.
Speaker: Gotcha.
Speaker: Gotcha.
Speaker: Yeah, I was going to say, like, hey, man, she might not even be real.
Speaker: Don't say that.
Speaker: Wow, thanks for killing my fantasy.
Speaker: Well, let me pause here.
Speaker: So, I mean, would Mei Feng be okay with this?
Speaker: I'm just wondering.
Speaker: Yeah?
Speaker: Oh, she probably won't even listen to this.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Oh, okay.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Who's there?
Speaker: What?
Speaker: Wait, isn't that your girlfriend's name?
Speaker: Oh, Munfei.
Speaker: Oh, yeah.
Speaker: Oh, Munfei.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker: She's definitely okay with it, but also we broke up.
Speaker: Oh, what?
Speaker: About a month and a half ago.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Wait, so are you living in SF alone?
Speaker: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker: Oh.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker: How are you doing?
Speaker: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker: I'm doing a lot better now.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: We were supposed to get into that later down the road.
Speaker: I'm sorry.
Speaker: You're losing your shock value.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Well, I mean, I wanted to ask you this question because actually like neither Michael and I have any experience with dating apps.
Speaker: Yeah, actually, I was really surprised.
Speaker: It sounds like you have a lot of experience.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I definitely got a lot better.
Speaker: There's like some strategy, at least back then.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Well, give me a give me a tip here.
Speaker: So like we all know that the hay is not good.
Speaker: Like what's a good first liner tip?
Speaker: OK, so I think this is where the dating app really shines.
Speaker: Like Tinder and Bumble, I mean, again, this is like before I got into relationships, so it's been a while.
Speaker: Maybe the meta has changed.
Speaker: But you want the Hinge is the app where you can like a picture or like a phrase, which gives you like a starting point, at least.
Speaker: And there's a lot more information.
Speaker: So you want to ask some intriguing questions.
Speaker: For example, something that when my ex caught my attention, she liked a picture of my climbing picture, and then she said in traditional Chinese, which is very different from all the other people.
Speaker: Because usually I don't read simplified Chinese, but then the traditional wording kind of caught my interest and then got me to respond like, hey, wow, how do you know traditional Chinese and blah, blah, blah.
Speaker: Or sometimes I would make like a joke regarding like someone's prompts.
Speaker: And if that turned them off, that's perfect.
Speaker: You know, it's like filtering.
Speaker: If not, it's like you can go off on that.
Speaker: But you definitely don't want to do, hey, just imagine you're very popular girls.
Speaker: They get like hundreds of guys liking them.
Speaker: And if all of them says, hey, it takes a lot of energy to just respond back, you know.
Speaker: So you want to put in more effort.
Speaker: So then it's easier for them to get back to you.
Speaker: I mean, obviously, the guys are on the different end of stick.
Speaker: We want to get the attention, you know?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I think climbing photos are real smart on your part.
Speaker: It's like it shows your physique without being, like, you know, too, like, showy about it.
Speaker: Right?
Speaker: Yes, that's actually really important.
Speaker: Like girls tend to not like tactless, shirtless pictures.
Speaker: You want to make it natural, you know?
Speaker: Like having a good photo or a good profile is very important.
Speaker: And there's like people out there taking pictures and all that stuff for you.
Speaker: But you want to show your natural self without being too arrogant.
Speaker: You also want to, like there's stuff like saying that you want to at least have a friend pictures to show that you are not a sociopath.
Speaker: You want to have like hobby picture.
Speaker: And then most importantly, like a good frontal face picture to show your like face and smile.
Speaker: And then you want to have a full body picture to show like your whole body, I guess.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Gotcha.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Well, yeah.
Speaker: Thanks for sharing.
Speaker: Our last question as far as icebreakers go.
Speaker: What do you wish people assume less about you?
Speaker: Yeah, actually, that was a really hard question because I feel like maybe I'm very blessed in that the assumption people about me tend to be positive.
Speaker: And even if it's not true, I will want to live up to that, you know.
Speaker: Then I thought about it a little bit more, and the two things that came to mind are basically racial profiling.
Speaker: That's really bad.
Speaker: Since we're Asians, we tend to steal jobs and all those negative racial stereotypes.
Speaker: That's not good.
Speaker: Or even for working environments as well, which doesn't happen that frequently, but I hear about it.
Speaker: Definitely not nice.
Speaker: Especially during the few years ago, there was Asian hate.
Speaker: Also, my sister, this is more personal.
Speaker: I work in a software job and my sister would just assume I'm not doing much work.
Speaker: She would just say, oh yeah, you're just at home on your computer doing whatever, very chill.
Speaker: Which in some sense, it is partially true that compared to say her husband, which is a dentist just like you guys,
Speaker: Oh, really?
Speaker: Long hours, yes.
Speaker: And, you know, have to work overtime.
Speaker: And, you know, you can't really take a break whenever you want.
Speaker: And it's more, the time is more constrained and more customer-based, whereas my time is more project-based, right?
Speaker: But at the same time, I don't want her to feel like I got to where I am today by not working hard at all.
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And basically it feels like whenever she has stuff for me to do, she would just assume I have the time.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: What does she have you do?
Speaker: You know, like family stuff.
Speaker: Like, oh, our mom needs this.
Speaker: You know, can you do this?
Speaker: And for the taxes for mom or, you know, all that stuff.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Gotcha.
Speaker: Oh man, that hit a chord with us.
Speaker: We actually talked a couple episodes ago about how, what people assume about us as far as like our workload.
Speaker: Maybe it's like a coping mechanism for other people.
Speaker: Like maybe they all have a tendency to assume like your life is harder than other people.
Speaker: We certainly talked about that as well, previous episodes.
Speaker: So interesting.
Speaker: I mean, I definitely don't doubt that she works harder and she has a tough life.
Speaker: I just think the nature of work is a little different.
Speaker: And definitely, I think I am in a very blessed and privileged job right now, given the market, that I'm not as constrained to work, putting the extra hours and all that stuff, right?
Speaker: But I just don't want to be automatically assumed that.
Speaker: I'm not working hard.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Have you heard that before?
Speaker: Like people telling you that you're like stealing jobs?
Speaker: Like personally, someone said that to you before?
Speaker: No, no, no, I haven't.
Speaker: Yeah, so it's also lucky, but I definitely heard that kind of phrase around, you know.
Speaker: I kind of wanted to just ask, like, pretty general, since I feel like we don't really know what happened in your life before, like, since high school.
Speaker: And I just kind of wanted to know if you've had, like, some bigger life events or, like, more emotional or memorable events that have happened to you since high school until now.
Speaker: Because, like, we...
Speaker: I feel like we don't really hear too much from you about what's going on.
Speaker: Yeah, there's a lot.
Speaker: But first thing that came into my mind would be my relationship, I guess.
Speaker: Oh.
Speaker: got into a relationship and also got off it.
Speaker: And that was a big life learning experience.
Speaker: Something you mentioned in the beginning of this podcast was you feel heard from me.
Speaker: And this is something, it's like a thing that something I was not able to provide for my girlfriend.
Speaker: Some of the arguments would be that I'm not hearing her out, even though I was able to
Speaker: reiterate or paraphrase what she has just said, which is very bizarre to me because I feel like that's what listening is about.
Speaker: So then after my breakup, I met up with Ryan Chewie, also from our high school.
Speaker: He listened to SF.
Speaker: And it just so happened that he has
Speaker: a lot of very helpful tips and also books recommendation.
Speaker: He said he also went through something similar and he recommended a book called The Lost Art of Listening and how it can help with just listening to people.
Speaker: And at first, I was like, how hard could that be?
Speaker: But, you know, I should give this a try.
Speaker: And I started listening to the audio book and
Speaker: it really opened my eyes.
Speaker: There's just a lot to be learned from the book.
Speaker: I'm still halfway through it, but it's a very heavy content.
Speaker: And one of the biggest thing to answer my previous confusion is when people say certain things, you don't just paraphrase what they have said.
Speaker: You try to paraphrase
Speaker: what they are trying to say or trying to convey.
Speaker: By doing that in a neutral manner, you're inviting them to either correct what you responded or agree.
Speaker: So then you're on the same page.
Speaker: Yeah, this is something I've been trying to improve.
Speaker: Also just listening more, waiting for people to finish talking.
Speaker: Because one of the important concepts is also that
Speaker: There's a speaker and a listener.
Speaker: The speaker has a filter and the listener has a filter.
Speaker: So when the speaker is trying to say something, after the filter, it may come out different.
Speaker: And I think of it as, could be language barrier or just expresses of your thoughts.
Speaker: It's a skill.
Speaker: But the most important filter is on the listener part.
Speaker: So if the filter is, if you have certain agenda,
Speaker: in your mind or you're trying to rebuttal certain questions the speaker has said so you're not really listening to the remaining stories then you're not really hearing whatever the speaker is trying to say afterward and that filter can distort a lot of what you hear and it's important to like let go of what you want to say and just really listen first before you respond but yeah i learned a lot from the book and there's a lot more uh good information out there
Speaker: Yeah, that's pretty good.
Speaker: Are you finished talking?
Speaker: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker: He just wanted to make sure.
Speaker: I mean, no, we're going to interrupt each other just by happenstance.
Speaker: So don't worry about that.
Speaker: But yeah, no, of course, of course.
Speaker: Now, I do want to clarify.
Speaker: Did you get like a similar feedback from your friends though?
Speaker: Or do you think there's something particular about like a relationship that makes that harder to do perhaps?
Speaker: Or...
Speaker: So this is interesting.
Speaker: I think I have a lot of guy friends and something I also realized guys and girls are different and it's okay.
Speaker: And you can treat them differently.
Speaker: Like you need to, because everyone has different two.
Speaker: In fact, relationship with every individual is going to be different, but maybe guys as a group tend to react in a similar manner and girls don't.
Speaker: will tend to do something else.
Speaker: And I was definitely not that familiar, I guess, in talking with girls in a way that they would want to hear, I guess.
Speaker: Sometimes being too honest or too frank is also not good.
Speaker: And I think it's also because the friend group that I hang out with, they're very honest and very direct.
Speaker: But sometimes being direct can be hurtful, depending on the circumstance and the way you say it.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Oh, I mean, I give you a lot of credit for like being open to change.
Speaker: You know, I think for most people, the filtering from a lot of advice to the actual action plan is a lot.
Speaker: Like they get it.
Speaker: We get a lot of advice, but we hardly implement any.
Speaker: So I give you a lot of credit for that.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Thank you.
Speaker: Dude, I wanted to ask you about the Skype calls.
Speaker: Just Skype.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Here's what I mean.
Speaker: So when I was in high school, like sometimes, well, middle and high school, but sometimes I, you know, I go to your place to hang out.
Speaker: And oftentimes I see you like on a Skype call with like Ben, I think Krishna, sometimes Max and other people.
Speaker: And I asked you like, how often are you guys like on here?
Speaker: And I think you said like pretty often for like hours on end.
Speaker: I just never had like anyone like do something like that.
Speaker: I wanted to know like how did that come out and like did it help or hurt you in any way?
Speaker: Like did you have something similar going on still?
Speaker: I just wanted to know like how that came about.
Speaker: Like did you see the future of streaming and you wanted to like get the practice reps in before you go up on Twitch?
Speaker: It just blew my mind.
Speaker: Like wow, it's like they're just on there.
Speaker: Like everybody helping each other and stuff.
Speaker: Yeah, that's a very good question.
Speaker: I'm not sure when that came to be.
Speaker: Maybe I just remember it was we started playing games together and we needed some sort of platform and Skype was the way to do it.
Speaker: But...
Speaker: It's definitely a, this is something my friend group did talk about a lot in that Skype was the bong, the glue that kept us together after high school when we go to our separate college.
Speaker: We keep the Skype group because it was our way to keep in touch with each other.
Speaker: And maybe it could be seen as not letting go, but in a way that people have a hard time adjusting to college and, you know,
Speaker: It feels comfortable talking to like friends from high school or just longtime friends, right?
Speaker: And we can also keep each other accountable for the things that they're doing.
Speaker: For example, like Ben went to a party school and then, you know, by talking about our life and all that, just checking how he's going.
Speaker: Yeah, I think it was the technology that really helped us deepen our friendship and really kept us together throughout college.
Speaker: And definitely don't do that anymore.
Speaker: It's definitely harder to find time together to talk now, especially with all the work and stuff.
Speaker: Back then it's easier because you don't have to work 95.
Speaker: You can just jump on the call whenever you want.
Speaker: And it's a lot harder to keep in touch right now.
Speaker: In fact, keeping touch is an effort that you have to put in.
Speaker: And I try my best because I really don't want to lose the friendship that we have created over so many years.
Speaker: And sometimes it's disappointing that, you know, the effort that you put in is not reciprocated by the other side.
Speaker: And I came to realize that it's okay because, you know, I care about these kind of stuff.
Speaker: And what I want is going to be different from what other people want.
Speaker: And as long as we meet in the middle, that'll be good enough.
Speaker: And I think this is something I also learned, like relationship with, you know, your girlfriend and boyfriend, you should do the same effort for friendship as well.
Speaker: I see this happen a lot that I saw with my friends when they get into relationship and then you just lose touch with them for a while.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And then, you know, it kind of makes sense for the honeymoon phase.
Speaker: But I also feel like it's after a while, I kind of expect them to, you know, come back and reach out, right?
Speaker: Maybe this is a rough, like, bros before hoes.
Speaker: You shouldn't interpret that as the old way it is.
Speaker: But it's more like keeping friendship should be just as important as keeping a relationship.
Speaker: Obviously, the level of the connection you have with your partner is going to be different.
Speaker: But your friend or your partner, it's something you probably want to keep for the rest of your life.
Speaker: You know, if you don't put in effort, you will lose then.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I think finding that balance is always hard.
Speaker: And I think it can only get harder once you start more committing to the relationship.
Speaker: And, you know, once like real commitments like marriage and kids come in, then like it's damn near impossible.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Well, yeah, don't keep that mindset.
Speaker: Obviously, it's going to be possible.
Speaker: You just need to put in more effort.
Speaker: All right, I'm going to move on to the next category.
Speaker: Unless you have anything, Michael?
Speaker: Yeah, kind of some similar since we're kind of talking about it.
Speaker: I think the Skype thing kind of addresses it.
Speaker: But, you know, I feel like you're a very social person.
Speaker: And then you have a lot of kind of deeper connection with a lot of different people.
Speaker: But, you know, do you think there's like a special relationship with Ben?
Speaker: And if there is, what made it so special?
Speaker: And was there like a core memory that really solidified it for you?
Speaker: Kind of like besides the Skype thing?
Speaker: Hmm.
Speaker: I think what's special with Ben is just the quality time that we spend together.
Speaker: And I think it's not just Ben, like, there's a bunch of other people, but I think another person I can come to mind is Michael.
Speaker: I think the three of us have very similar mindset about how to debate or really argue about things.
Speaker: I really like...
Speaker: talking about controversial stuff and you know and all two of them have like very different perspective on the things i want to talk about and it's good that we're able to hash things out in a way that doesn't escalate into breaking friendship or anything and it's really good to have a brain exercise to really get into certain topics and
Speaker: And I think it's just fortunate that Ben and I also get along on the sports stuff and we also live together and we just spend a lot of time talking and given all these positive quality about like communication, we just ended up getting along really well.
Speaker: And we help each other through the ups and downs and really we can like critique about each other's mistakes without offending the other person.
Speaker: And we both have similar growth mindset and we're competitive.
Speaker: Oh yeah, I think that's also important.
Speaker: We're very competitive with each other, but in like a healthy way that we're good rivals to help each other grow.
Speaker: I hope so.
Speaker: Like for basketball, running, climbing, and just all the sports we do.
Speaker: And it's good to have a rival because it makes you want to improve yourself.
Speaker: I found it interesting that I thought it was going to be like, because you guys have similar hobbies and similar interests.
Speaker: But I found it interesting.
Speaker: The first thing that came to mind is that you know that even when things get into a head, you guys can have good confidence that you'll resolve it without being personal or getting catastrophic.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: relationship issues amongst you guys.
Speaker: So like the, your ability to resolve conflict is more compatible rather than the actual like things that are more directly compatible.
Speaker: I found that interesting.
Speaker: You know, it made me think like it's one thing Michael and I do differ a lot.
Speaker: I think I can be a little into some things and like a little more competitive about things and Michael's just not.
Speaker: And, um,
Speaker: sometimes like um that gives like different perspectives as to like i can come off to like yo it's not that big a deal like why you're so like you know all in on this and i can feel like yo this is a big deal why aren't we trying harder like um you know having a different mindset like that i think it can be a can be a little bit of challenge yeah i mean how do you guys go about resolving that dude i don't think we do
Speaker: Don't play video games with me.
Speaker: That's a different hobby.
Speaker: I mean, I think one of the biggest, one of my philosophy in life is, you know, I believe that only through conflict will the relationship deepens, right?
Speaker: And it's, if you don't have a good method of overcoming hardship or conflict together, either it's going to break or, you know, or it's not going to improve anymore.
Speaker: And yeah.
Speaker: It's good to know that you guys have similar dynamic as well.
Speaker: And then having compatible hobby helps, but I don't think that would be the core, I guess.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yo, Michael, can you say something?
Speaker: So we need to... It's not weird.
Speaker: I just thought it was so funny.
Speaker: I think Eric's primary concern is that we're not playing games together.
Speaker: No, it's just like, yo, yo, like, so if I'm playing something, right, and like, I get him hyped about it, like in my head, like, okay, let's sink eight hours into this, right?
Speaker: And then...
Speaker: And then he'd be like, one hour into it, I was like, yo, I gotta go to dinner with my parents.
Speaker: I'm like, what?
Speaker: Like, you just got your gear.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But like metaphorically, I feel that way in other avenues.
Speaker: So, yeah, that's a challenge.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I mean, that's why you have, you would need to have different friends that complement each of your hobbies, right?
Speaker: Yeah, I'm trying, man.
Speaker: Yeah, actually, I feel like that's something that Chung Kang does really well, right?
Speaker: Like he has like his friends with like climbing.
Speaker: I mean, a lot of them overlap too.
Speaker: But then like he has people he plays basketball with and the people he plays games with.
Speaker: I think he does that like pretty well.
Speaker: Gotcha.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: Moving on to the next topic, I want to dig a little deeper regarding your job.
Speaker: Sure.
Speaker: So at first, just for education purposes, you know, I feel like when people say, oh, I work in tech or tech industry, it's like, it's so big to me.
Speaker: You know, it's like, example is like, if someone says I work in the film industry, it's like, for me, it's like, well, that means nothing.
Speaker: Like, are you working in cinematography or editing or acting, directing, casting, costumes, sound effects?
Speaker: Like, it's too big.
Speaker: So as someone who's involved in that, like, can you help us narrow it down to maybe like two or three more bite-sized accurate
Speaker: categories that like helps this conversation as opposed to like oh I work in tech like I don't really know what that means actually yeah I think when people generify the tech industry is really referring to like engineering or you know product manager or just basically people working on technology such as uber or lyft software related and all the project management around that
Speaker: And even if you are in HR or legal, which is tangential to the software world, as long as you work in a tech company, there's certain stigma or culture that only the tech company people would have.
Speaker: For example, the perks.
Speaker: tech industry tends to have a lot of good employee perks, such as free lunch or a nice coffee or maybe a coffee maker, barista within the building or 401k or dental and all that stuff.
Speaker: Or like couches or a wellness room or massage chair and all that stuff associated with tech companies, right?
Speaker: At least that's the things that come to mind when people say, oh yeah, I work in tech.
Speaker: And it's also like the up and coming popular industry right now.
Speaker: And by working in tech, it almost feels like there's a connotation of like you're selling out to make money and stuff like doing what you want in a sense, just because you fell for the perks of these companies.
Speaker: Well, I mean, you might be staying in a box, but the box is pretty good.
Speaker: So yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Any thoughts on the current layoffs going on?
Speaker: And if you need an olive branch, what's something about this kind of this like massive layoff that's happening in tech that people are paying too much emphasis or attention to?
Speaker: And as someone who works in the industry, what's something that you wish more people recognize about this zeitgeist change?
Speaker: Yeah, okay, so the tech layoff is really not something working in the tech would give me more insight.
Speaker: I think it's more like a finance, the world macroeconomic, so to speak.
Speaker: It's really just due to the current economy facing inflation and the Feds are raising interest rate, which in turn, even the recent bank failures is going to cause more of a panic in terms of a technology job.
Speaker: And
Speaker: When the interest rates are low, people tend to want to invest in something more risky because they want to get a better return.
Speaker: And tech company sectors tend to have a good history on that.
Speaker: But now that with the interest rate going high, an investor will probably want to put their money somewhere else where the returns are maybe not as good, but it's much safer.
Speaker: And that's why...
Speaker: the bigger tech companies are scaling back and it's really just a function of like macro economic and with what the world is going.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Did you feel affected by it?
Speaker: Did you feel like pressure or fear from like the layoffs or not really?
Speaker: So I kind of got lucky in that when I was leaving my last job, I switched before the inflation really kicked in.
Speaker: But I think I also got very lucky in that I picked a company.
Speaker: I had several choices between startup or mid-sized company.
Speaker: I picked the mid-sized company due to the stability.
Speaker: And I got lucky in that our company is in a good spot and still growing.
Speaker: So...
Speaker: I don't need to worry about being laid off much.
Speaker: But right now, I definitely, because I switched industry, well, not industry, but I switched to a different type of technology and my domain knowledge isn't lining up that well.
Speaker: I definitely feel that pressure working at this company because they tend to focus more on results and performance.
Speaker: Whereas the culture of my previous companies, they also care about results, but it's more building a culture where mistakes are forgiven.
Speaker: And as long as you're willing to try to fix it and own up to it, then you're rewarded for it.
Speaker: Whereas in my new job, I feel like if you make a tiny mistake, it's being scrutinized more thoroughly and you have less room to breathe, which is interesting, but I think it's something that I had to get used to.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Hmm.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: You think in a growing company, I mean, mistakes sometimes lead to innovations, right?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But it's also that it's a mid-sized company growing to become bigger.
Speaker: So with the big customers they have, they become more scared of making mistakes.
Speaker: And this is something I've been thinking a lot about that, whether I should keep staying in this type of large company or should I go to something smaller?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Some miscellaneous questions for you.
Speaker: So number one, what's inspiring you these days?
Speaker: Well, so my friend just proposed recently or got engaged.
Speaker: And he has this timeline with his partner that they want to be married within two years and have a kid and all that stuff.
Speaker: And this is due to the function of...
Speaker: like the biology, like, hey, you know, we want to make sure to do all these before we are past our prime or, you know, past a healthy age.
Speaker: And it really gets me thinking that, okay, what is it something that I really should do now and focus on?
Speaker: So I've been really into like, I mean, I always were into fitness, but now I'm even more so.
Speaker: I am going at my fitness goal with more careful research and not just doing it casually.
Speaker: So I think for this year, especially I broke my wrist last year and there was basically a year of just recovering.
Speaker: I'm more careful now into what I do.
Speaker: And I realized there's too many things I want to do at once.
Speaker: I need to also scope it down to something more manageable.
Speaker: And I think this year I want to make sure to get to a certain level of climbing.
Speaker: And I also want to be able to dunk.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So like some sort of fitness goal that I think will maybe be impossible to achieve later, but I should try to strive for it now.
Speaker: That's great.
Speaker: I can't wait for that day for when you show us your dunk.
Speaker: That's going to be amazing.
Speaker: Yeah, when I dunk on you, huh?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: How close are you right now?
Speaker: Oh, so before my wrist injury, I was able to touch the rim with a few fingers over, like a little bit over.
Speaker: But after the wrist injury that I'm like just sitting around, laying around, I can't even touch the rim anymore now.
Speaker: So it's pretty far.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I just started the workout this week.
Speaker: So we'll see.
Speaker: Gotcha.
Speaker: Well, anything else you wanted to say or like things you want to talk about?
Speaker: I guess in terms of physical relationship, or not physical relationship, like physical wellness, things I want to work on is also my life, right?
Speaker: I felt like I'm very privileged and blessed in a job market that's hot and suited my talents.
Speaker: But I also don't want to work too hard.
Speaker: I want to make sure to have a good work-life balance.
Speaker: So I try to spend more on my personal self, like self-improvement.
Speaker: And that's why I don't mention about more of what I want to achieve work-wise, but more of what I want to achieve personal life-wise.
Speaker: I want to be able to travel with my friends while they can and not bogged down by...
Speaker: you know, kids or anything.
Speaker: And I want to be sure to achieve what I can well before I tie down as well.
Speaker: And I think I also want to use this time to kind of really explore around in terms of relationship and just learn more about how to communicate with different types of people that I'm not used to talking to.
Speaker: All right, guys, that about wraps it up.
Speaker: Check us out at Instagram at Penguspective for more exclusive clips and post pod clarity.
Speaker: Thank you, Chung Kang, for joining us.
Speaker: And until next time, peace.
