Transcript
Speaker: Welcome to Elixir Radio, a podcast brought to you by Elixir Media Co.
Speaker: I'm your host, Tanya Jane, and I'm so excited to journey with you on this beautiful exploration of creativity, self-expression, business strategy, and what it truly takes to embody and revolutionize your entire brand, business, and life.
Speaker: This is a podcast for the revolutionary, heart-led, Aquarian-age leader ready to rise, elevate, dismantle, disrupt, and lead with their edge.
Speaker: Honor their unique self-led brand and soul lessons.
Speaker: It is my God-given purpose to help you share your story in a way that honors your soul and elevate your growth, to empower you to deepen your relationship with self so you can show up powerfully in all aspects of your life, and guide you to your fiercest self-expression so you never have to dim your voice or light again for anyone.
Speaker: this podcast will help you follow your fire you know that thing you can't stop thinking about the thing that lights you up that you wake up at at 3am every night and chase your big hairy scary and audacious dreams so you can make them a reality instead of playing small saddle up wild one it's time to come home to yourself and share your story with others who need your medicine your life has multiple layers to it and so do you
Speaker: It's time to express all of who you are, however you desire.
Speaker: My motto has always been, bring the soul back into social media and show up online and in real life as you are.
Speaker: Unapologetic, activated, and bold.
Speaker: Are you ready to fly?
Speaker: Let's go.
Speaker: All right, we are back after an almost two month hiatus, which was much needed because I was navigating some life challenges and life happens.
Speaker: But I will say this.
Speaker: Today's episode is one that you are going to want to tune into if you are a...
Speaker: online agency owner, an online service provider, you know, whether you're a coach or a mentor or whether you are an actual service provider who does done for you services, this is an episode that you want to tune into.
Speaker: And the reason is that I have my biz bestie
Speaker: And, you know, also part of Team Elixir are, I would like to call her almost like our operations ninja, the incredible June Chang, CEO of Leviosa Marketing.
Speaker: She is a mama of two beautiful girls.
Speaker: She lives in Texas.
Speaker: I know all my besties live far far far away from me.
Speaker: But we are here in spirit and her energy is just one of a kind.
Speaker: And today on the podcast we actually discuss quite a few pivotal things such as what does it mean to be a luxury service provider?
Speaker: How do you treat your team and clients?
Speaker: So company culture, client culture, team culture and
Speaker: you know how can we stand in our leadership more and more and a riff on kind of the things that we've been noticing um being in the back end of so many multi six seven and eight figure business owners so tune in i'm so excited to have june on this podcast she has not only been a dear friend in business but
Speaker: She's literally my hype woman.
Speaker: We're each other's hype women.
Speaker: And we can literally talk about anything from God and faith to to like the silliest jokes and so much more in between.
Speaker: And, you know, when I reflect back on our friendship, like, isn't aren't those the type of friends that you want in your life, in your business anyway, the ones that you can be yourself with no matter what?
Speaker: So I'm very excited for you to experience her and her energy.
Speaker: As you listen in, if there's any takeaways that you hear, if there's anything that resonates deeply with you, you know, feel free to shout out to both of us.
Speaker: Her handle is June J Chang on Instagram and our handle is elixiermedia.co or go to the show notes.
Speaker: Our handles are there.
Speaker: But before anything else, tune in, have a good listen.
Speaker: Happy month of May.
Speaker: Like, can you believe it?
Speaker: We're in the month of May and wow, like I'm so stoked.
Speaker: So here we go.
Speaker: Welcome, June.
Speaker: I'm so excited to have you here and to share you with my world and for everyone to know you because you're freaking wonderful.
Speaker: So before we go into all of the things, why don't we start with a little bit about you?
Speaker: Who is June Chang and how did you come to do what you're doing now in your business?
Speaker: What's your story?
Speaker: Oh my gosh, this is like always a part that I'm always like so awkward.
Speaker: Okay, I come from a very, very corporate background of banking.
Speaker: So you could just imagine how corporate that was.
Speaker: And I also graduated with a degree in business management.
Speaker: So coming from both of those backgrounds, it was a very masculine.
Speaker: But it was also easy to check out of those kinds of things because as long as you did the task, like you were promoted at 3% raise annually.
Speaker: And no one gave a damn about what you did in the meantime.
Speaker: But...
Speaker: I realized that like for me, I was like so much more productive than other people.
Speaker: Like when it took them like a week to do something, like it took me like half a day.
Speaker: And I just thought there could be so much better use of my time than being stuck in a freaking office for eight plus hours a day.
Speaker: Especially when I got pregnant with my first kid.
Speaker: in 2017, I was like, do I want to just be in the office for this long, like 40-50 hours a week minimum, and then come home and just watch my kid for like half an hour before I had to put her to bed.
Speaker: And that was really when I started thinking about how will I transition out.
Speaker: So that's when I started my side business of
Speaker: doing digital marketing.
Speaker: I started with Facebook and Instagram ads because stats and data was something that I was very familiar with.
Speaker: But as everyone knows, successful Facebook and Instagram ads is not just throwing money on your content and expecting sales.
Speaker: So because of that, I ended up doing like sales pages, copy, funnel, the backend, the analytics, like literally building out their whole fucking business for, I don't know, $500 a month, which is like ridiculous.
Speaker: I know.
Speaker: You're like, do you remember that?
Speaker: I'm like, yeah.
Speaker: So all of my early clients, you are fucking lucky you got me back then.
Speaker: But yeah, no way.
Speaker: I will never charge that low ever again.
Speaker: But I was doing that so much and I was getting resentful of my business because I was making so much money for all of my clients.
Speaker: And then I was like struggling, barely making a couple thousand a month.
Speaker: And then...
Speaker: I was like, fuck that.
Speaker: So I hired a business coach.
Speaker: And then after that, obviously learned how to price my offers accordingly.
Speaker: And now I'm a fractional CO, CMO for multi six, seven figure entrepreneurs.
Speaker: And I also have a full service digital marketing agency.
Speaker: So it's really nice because
Speaker: Sometimes my clients don't want to do the extra work of hiring a VA or hiring an extra social media manager.
Speaker: So I could package both pieces and present it to them.
Speaker: And the only person they talk to is me.
Speaker: So it's like they feel like I'm taking care of the whole business for them.
Speaker: So, yeah, that was a very long intro.
Speaker: It wasn't.
Speaker: Honestly, you know what, there's so much gold in what you just said.
Speaker: And it's perfect because it just sets the stage for like all the stuff that we want to talk about.
Speaker: So for those of you listening, June and I met actually in a mastermind with my previous mentor.
Speaker: But like, I think you're still working.
Speaker: with Maria.
Speaker: So we met in that mastermind at the beginning of 2022.
Speaker: So if you've heard any of the previous episodes, this mastermind, no lie, helped me get through the
Speaker: a lot of messed up stuff in that first quarter.
Speaker: And more specifically, June and one of my other, I call them Mastermind Agency Besties.
Speaker: It was the first time I'd ever been in a program where there were actually agency owners and service providers.
Speaker: And it wasn't another Mastermind where you had coaches who don't understand the service provider world.
Speaker: Exactly.
Speaker: I love your story because I've known you now for almost a year.
Speaker: And holy shit, it's been a year.
Speaker: It's our friendversary.
Speaker: Oh my gosh.
Speaker: Friends of her screen.
Speaker: I know.
Speaker: I know.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I feel so much longer though.
Speaker: I know, right?
Speaker: I feel like it's already, our friend Versi already passed.
Speaker: I feel like, you know, it's been a year and I've seen June, like I think of June as this badass.
Speaker: Like you, I really do.
Speaker: Because it's like, you want some real talk?
Speaker: Go to June.
Speaker: Like she'll always tell it to you straight.
Speaker: We're also like Zodiac twins.
Speaker: Like we're both Sagittarius's.
Speaker: So it's like we get each other on a different level.
Speaker: And what I really love about you, June, is how you actually like, you show the motherhood and you show the badass.
Speaker: boss slash CO and you just have this beautiful balance.
Speaker: And I don't even think I have balance.
Speaker: I don't see a lot of people with that.
Speaker: For some reason, and somehow you have you've cultivated this balance.
Speaker: And maybe it's because you're two for many gen and you're super fast.
Speaker: But I love that you're not afraid to state what you want.
Speaker: And you're not afraid to walk away from things when it's not aligned.
Speaker: And that is something I really appreciate and admire about you.
Speaker: I love, first of all, I love your model with you have the marketing agency and you're a COO.
Speaker: So people get to pick and choose or they get to combine it.
Speaker: Let's dig a bit deeper into $500 really.
Speaker: I know.
Speaker: I know.
Speaker: I can't get over it.
Speaker: I'm sorry.
Speaker: I can't get over that.
Speaker: 2017 June, right?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: No, 2017 Tanya used to charge $750 for a 60,000 word book edit with multiple revisions and coaching.
Speaker: I will never do that again.
Speaker: 2021 Tanya ghost wrote a book for probably $1,000, but I will never do that again.
Speaker: So...
Speaker: For just, it's interesting to see these shifts because I know you last year versus looking, reflecting on who you were at this time last year versus now.
Speaker: I've seen you just bloom and like just come into your own as a business owner.
Speaker: Let's talk a bit more about that.
Speaker: What are some of the biggest growth curves that you've witnessed behind the scenes?
Speaker: Because we work behind the scenes with a lot of multi-six, multi-seven leaders.
Speaker: And what are some
Speaker: good things that you've seen about these in general within as working as a service provider is so different so coming into a business as a coo coming in and i've one of the things that you said was i was helping all these people build their empires and here i am like making barely a couple thousand a month when we tie that all together and i was having this chat with another service provider friend yesterday
Speaker: I feel like there's service providers that understand what they bring to the table and they know how to charge accordingly.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And then there's service providers that don't charge accordingly.
Speaker: accordingly and they keep there's this dichotomy of like coach versus service provider and for some reason for some godforsaken reason a coach is viewed as much higher than a service provider and it's a it's a mindset thing and i've witnessed it i've experienced it and i know you have too so i'd really love to dig into that because there's a lot of service providers that listen to this so yeah
Speaker: I think, yeah, like you said, it's definitely a mindset thing because I think when a lot of service providers are pitching their services, they're almost pitching it as...
Speaker: an employee, already that hierarchy or that kind of like environment is set.
Speaker: Whereas if you come in as like a, Hey, I want to partner with you and your business, because this is the gaps that I see that I could come in and help you fill or for the things that you don't want to do.
Speaker: I'm here.
Speaker: I'm not here as like your bitch, but I'm here to help support you so that you could focus on
Speaker: XYZ to increase your business, to scale your business, or even to maintain your business while you take more time off, right?
Speaker: Because not every single person wants to grow their business to like multi-seven figures, multi-eight figures or anything like that.
Speaker: So definitely take into consideration what
Speaker: their goals are before partnering with them and even the company culture if they even have a company culture oh my gosh i know yeah that's like a different topic altogether but gosh yeah i think that's i think that is like the number one thing for a lot of service providers they already come in thinking like they're the employees
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And then when they do come in and they're working in the business, like they don't have boundaries either.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: They're like, oh, like it's OK.
Speaker: So I feel like the main difference between a VA versus like an OBM versus a CEO is literally the access that they have to you.
Speaker: Same thing with a coach when you're going in from a membership all the way to a one to one.
Speaker: The reason why you pay more is not because you want to be in their energy or some other like fake bullshit that you hear out there, but it's literally the proximity that you have with them.
Speaker: the constant communication that you have with them because a lot of the times like these micro shifts happen in the moment and it's not necessarily when it's oh we are going to have this big conversation about x yeah right it's literally like these little golden nuggets that are like dropped in a very casual conversation and because
Speaker: you have the proximity to have that conversation on a day-to-day basis.
Speaker: You're able to get there so much faster, right?
Speaker: The coach.
Speaker: So it's the same way.
Speaker: That's how it is for fractional CEOs, like CMOs, anybody that's more like senior level.
Speaker: Whereas for like VAs is very like upfront, hey, like do these tasks by this time, you're not asking them for like strategy, you're not asking them to for their input.
Speaker: If you were, then they're not a VA anymore.
Speaker: And every OBM has like their own specialties to like you can expect one OBM to have the same skill set and another OBM.
Speaker: And that's a different topic altogether.
Speaker: Yeah, no, I know.
Speaker: And you know what?
Speaker: I love this because I feel like there's so much we could talk about, but I love that you stated like some key, everything's really important, but key pieces like company culture, boundaries, mindset, like employee mindset versus like the entrepreneur mindset.
Speaker: And I personally didn't witness a shift in how people treated me until I
Speaker: I started treating myself differently.
Speaker: And titles, I say titles don't matter.
Speaker: I'll often tell my clients, like, they're like, what do we call you?
Speaker: Because you're so multifaceted.
Speaker: And I'm like, I'm your creative director or I'm your whatever.
Speaker: I'm like, you can't encompass me in a title, but I'm very creative.
Speaker: So yeah.
Speaker: I don't like titles, but they do matter.
Speaker: I think it does matter in a way because our egos, we're human, right?
Speaker: That's another thing.
Speaker: And ego is not a bad thing.
Speaker: So June and I are very into human design.
Speaker: And like for anyone listening to this podcast, I know you're here because we talk a lot about all of these pieces.
Speaker: So it's not just a business or strategy podcast.
Speaker: It's also the energetics.
Speaker: Your ego in human design is not a bad thing.
Speaker: If your ego is actually aligned, it gives you the confidence to state your pricing correctly.
Speaker: properly with confidence with certainty if your ego is aligned you're actually going to know when to take on a particular client when not to take on a client what your capacities etc etc right so any decisions made in ego which when I say an unaligned ego they're going to fall apart like things are going to happen you're going to feel resentful because you're not honoring what's actually coming up through you right where was I going with this I was going somewhere with this
Speaker: Titles do matter.
Speaker: Titles matter because it gives you if that's the confidence boost that you need for a little bit.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Change your title, see how it feels in your body.
Speaker: The other shift that I made, and I'm sure you made that too, is we don't just because we know how to do all the things doesn't mean we have to do all of the things.
Speaker: And yeah.
Speaker: It is so tempting when I see posts in different groups and I get tagged on or like I see people writing these posts in groups with like extensive descriptions.
Speaker: OK, like you would think this is like a presidential suite like
Speaker: order or whatever okay and then it's oh and you're a va and i'm like that's not a va that's a partner level role or that's a role that pays at least 10 grand a month or five minimum to start with right i think there's an expectation that needs to be set within the industry within
Speaker: with people and company culture has a lot to do with it.
Speaker: Everyone starts their business to be their own boss.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So I don't know why we're tolerating certain things.
Speaker: I mean, don't get me wrong.
Speaker: Just because you are a senior level like position or a higher position or whatever, it doesn't mean that, oh, no, I'm too good to like write a caption or go into Canva.
Speaker: No, like for me, I'm all about what needs to get done needs to get done.
Speaker: If I can't fucking do it, then I'm going to do it.
Speaker: It's not, that's not what we're talking about here.
Speaker: It's more of the like,
Speaker: what can you do as a way that is like setting boundaries, obviously, of your contract, of what you agreed upon your deliverables and like your proximity and all of it, but also how can you like, okay, let me backtrack a little bit because there has been like this,
Speaker: weird ass space where service providers are claiming that they're luxury service providers, right?
Speaker: But, and they're charging crazy amounts, but the delivery is not there.
Speaker: The communication is not there.
Speaker: And then all these people are getting burned because it's, oh, I have to pay.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: I'm just exaggerating a little bit, like $3,000 for a logo and some Instagram templates.
Speaker: And it took them
Speaker: fucking like three months to get back to me.
Speaker: It's just like fucking insane.
Speaker: And it's I don't want that to be our standard, right?
Speaker: But the thing is, if you're not setting like if you're not having your own boundaries, if you're not setting up your own, like contracts, and you're being you're not being clear with the person who hired you, you're also kind of part of the problem.
Speaker: And because now people think the standard of a logo
Speaker: is $50, right?
Speaker: Or standard of logo is $5,000.
Speaker: I don't know, whatever it may be.
Speaker: But you also have a responsibility now as a service provider to A, give the best service that you absolutely can and B, communicate that.
Speaker: Not just be like, oh, because you were a referral, I'm going to give you 75% off.
Speaker: Does that feel good to you?
Speaker: No, don't do it.
Speaker: No.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Oh, man, I've had my fair share of undercharging.
Speaker: I will say this.
Speaker: And thankfully, those contracts or opportunities came to an end in an organic fashion toward the latter half of 2022.
Speaker: And it's because I was undercharging.
Speaker: Like, oh, my goodness.
Speaker: I remember I charged $1.
Speaker: I will never do this again.
Speaker: So whoever y'all were that worked with me while I was in this phase, the damsel in distress phase of my life, y'all were pretty lucky.
Speaker: But I charged someone like $1,000 a month.
Speaker: No, no way.
Speaker: Like $1,000 a month.
Speaker: And it was like,
Speaker: I was hired to do marketing and content creation, things that I do, which was great.
Speaker: And we did some incredible work together, the designs and all these things.
Speaker: Like they were really powerful, but I noticed that this client didn't have systems set up.
Speaker: And if you're like me, if I see something, I can't just stay quiet about it.
Speaker: I'm going to say something about it.
Speaker: And then I don't take it on myself.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Exactly, because I'm like, this is too clunky.
Speaker: Like, I can't deal with it.
Speaker: We started setting up systems in this client's business.
Speaker: And we spent a better part of the year just doing that, like migrating platforms.
Speaker: Like, I realized, I'm like, wait, I'm actually not even doing, like, I'm doing the content and stuff.
Speaker: But it's, I'm also doing all of this other full scale level work.
Speaker: which ideally at that time, my charges that my nervous system could handle would have been a 3,500 US.
Speaker: package, that same package right now is like a minimum of 5,000 US.
Speaker: But like, I realized I'm like, holy shit, like, I can't keep doing this because it's like the time and energy that you spend on something and you could be spending that same amount of time on something else and you're not going to be resentful.
Speaker: And I think the other portion of that is at some point in time, it becomes this unspoken expectation of you're just going to do whatever you
Speaker: I ask a few because you already did that the first time and that's not their fault as a service provider.
Speaker: That's on us.
Speaker: The onus is on us because we didn't honor our pieces of what was being set.
Speaker: So I think-
Speaker: The biggest thing that I would say to any service provider, and I want to shift into culture because I love that you talked about luxury service providers not actually providing luxury services.
Speaker: Like I have a bone to pick with that.
Speaker: It's not just all about let's bash coaches.
Speaker: Like there is a massive problem, period.
Speaker: And in the industry, and I definitely think that it's people bring corporate culture into business because it's what you come from.
Speaker: It's what people knew, right?
Speaker: So we've brought that into business, but how about instead of being a part of the problem, how about you actually focus on a solution and work together?
Speaker: So what are some ways that a service provider could actually master the wobble?
Speaker: As one of my other clients mentioned to me yesterday, her question was,
Speaker: Did you just flip your mindset and you didn't have a wobble anymore?
Speaker: Or do you actually think you mastered your wobble?
Speaker: And I haven't answered that yet.
Speaker: So I figured this would be a good place to share multiple perspectives.
Speaker: I feel like people think that the more money you make or the higher...
Speaker: quote unquote, you are in life, like somehow problems disappear.
Speaker: That's what I feel like that's what a lot of people think, but that's not the case.
Speaker: What I think what's happening between people who quote unquote master their wobbles is they're able to get out of that wobble faster.
Speaker: And then the time between those wobbles become less and less, not less and less, more and more.
Speaker: So there's less wobbles happening and, you
Speaker: it takes them a lot faster to get out of those wobbles.
Speaker: So don't get me wrong.
Speaker: Now, like my minimum package where I'm involved directly is like $5,000, right?
Speaker: Maybe 4,000 if it's like a client that came back, but, and that's per month.
Speaker: But at the same time, like, of course they're like, oh, you know what?
Speaker: It'll be nice if I could have
Speaker: an extra like cash influx.
Speaker: Maybe I'll discount my services.
Speaker: But then every time I do that, I fucking hate myself after.
Speaker: So it's like kind of riding out that emotional wave before making a full decision.
Speaker: And I think too many people like try to make decisions based on their, like how they feel at the moment.
Speaker: But for a lot of us, we need to sit with it.
Speaker: for a good 24 to 48 hours or at least until we snap out of that like emotional tornado that we're in so yeah that's those that's my two cents of course in the beginning like it's like I'll just grab whoever I can but it's like the reason why some people the people who grow fast is because
Speaker: well, A, they're bullshitting about their income or B. It is, oh my Lord, it is so true.
Speaker: That's a whole other topic.
Speaker: That is a whole other topic.
Speaker: I'm sorry.
Speaker: I'm like going, I have so many sub topics we could talk about.
Speaker: We're going to bring you back.
Speaker: We're going to bring you back on the show because I think it's like, we're going to have a segment called like June and Tanya because I think the insight is so powerful like that you have.
Speaker: And just in general, like we've seen so many backends and inner workings of so many people
Speaker: businesses at this point yeah i had a hundred thousand dollar launch and then in the back end they only took home like five thousand dollars yeah no i get it let's talk let's shift gears into company culture and stuff what would you say would create i guess like a healthy
Speaker: company culture?
Speaker: What would foster a healthy company culture for both the business owner as well as the team?
Speaker: And this goes across the board.
Speaker: I don't care if you're a coach.
Speaker: I don't care if you're an agency owner leading a team.
Speaker: And I deeply do believe this.
Speaker: Just because you have the title CEO attached to your name does not make you a good leader.
Speaker: I have been a part of and I have seen some
Speaker: really, they were incredible human beings.
Speaker: And they knew how to go and get the sales, get the clients.
Speaker: But as leaders leading a team, influencing a team, guiding a team toward a greater vision and goal, they sucked.
Speaker: No offense.
Speaker: Like it just was one of those things that I only understood that in retrospect and in hindsight, once I got out of certain situations, because when you're in it, you can't really
Speaker: see it, or maybe you see it, which is why your body is going to come up with all sorts of messages to tell you, hey, get out, this isn't healthy.
Speaker: What would that look like?
Speaker: The biggest thing I feel makes a company successful is a sense of responsibility.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: For both, like literally anybody that's involved.
Speaker: So for the CEO, are they someone that could own up to the mistakes that they had?
Speaker: If they decided we're going to go this way, are they the type to say it's, of course, as a CEO, it is sometimes this is going to be the way and you just need to follow it because it's their fucking business.
Speaker: But at the same time, if they did make a mistake, are they the type to blame their environment, to blame you, to blame, I don't know, anything else except for them?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: That's not a CEO or a business I want to be part of.
Speaker: At the same vein, how are you as a service provider to your clients?
Speaker: Because shit happens.
Speaker: Life happens.
Speaker: You're going to be late on sending an email or if you see a delivery or if you're going to, you're going to mess up.
Speaker: Like it doesn't matter what the situation is.
Speaker: You're going to be human and you're going to make mistakes.
Speaker: But it's can you own that and then figure out a solution?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: are you the type to fake it till you make it?
Speaker: Or are you the type to be like, hey, I am vaguely familiar with this, but I'm going to do my part to figure this out.
Speaker: And then there's also the integrity part of it, because if they signed you on thinking that you know how to do X, Y, and Z, and then you decide to charge them for those hours for you to learn that system, that's
Speaker: That's not an integrity either.
Speaker: We're not Richard Branson-ing our way through like actual specialized services.
Speaker: There's that quote that Richard Branson says, if you don't know how to do a job, say yes in the moment and then figure it out later.
Speaker: You could do that.
Speaker: I would recommend you don't charge what a specialized service provider or someone who's had decades, maybe even years of practice, like on the job experience would charge, right?
Speaker: Like you could charge an intro rate and just be honest, like,
Speaker: June said, I'm familiar with this and I'm learning, but I'll do it.
Speaker: And here's what I charge you as my first beta client doing this with.
Speaker: I've done that.
Speaker: I've told people that.
Speaker: Like I didn't feel confident charging certain pricing points until I knew that I had built enough of a clientele that either resonated with my services.
Speaker: They loved it.
Speaker: Like I have the social proof for it.
Speaker: And then more than the social proof until I felt that I could hold everything.
Speaker: that pricing and not feel like an imposter, right?
Speaker: Because that's a whole different journey.
Speaker: So that's one of those things.
Speaker: This is so good.
Speaker: Oh my God.
Speaker: June, what are some of the things that you do look for when you are joining a business?
Speaker: Like what are some things that service providers should look for?
Speaker: Let's go like green flags, red flags.
Speaker: Let's categorize it that way.
Speaker: I think it really does depend on a person because for me, even though I
Speaker: I'm pretty like no bullshit.
Speaker: At the same time, I do feel like I do have a greater capacity to take on other people's bullshit too.
Speaker: Maybe it's because, not bullshit as in not treating me like shit, but like people need to verbalize their things before they get to the point.
Speaker: And I think some service providers don't have the capacity.
Speaker: They're just like, just tell me what to do, which is a very important mindset.
Speaker: But for me, I think it's because I have a defined group.
Speaker: I'm able to take on that pressure and just let them process it.
Speaker: And through that, I was like, okay,
Speaker: So this is what I'm hearing from you.
Speaker: How do you want to proceed?
Speaker: So for me, I have a bigger capacity to do that.
Speaker: But if you're not the type to do it, then you probably want to go to someone that has a more established system or a more established, whatever it may be that you can't pretty much
Speaker: take off for yourself.
Speaker: For me, as someone who knows what they're offering, who knows what they're offering, that they have a proven sales process, it doesn't mean it's a perfect sales process or a perfect marketing process, of course, because there's always room for improvement, but they need to know what they're selling.
Speaker: Okay, I'm not here
Speaker: for the newbies who are like, oh my gosh, Jin, this is what I thought would sell.
Speaker: Okay, how many did you sell?
Speaker: Zero.
Speaker: No, we're not doing that.
Speaker: We're not doing that.
Speaker: It's different, of course, if you have an established audience and you want to bring in a new offer, of course, I'm not talking about that.
Speaker: But if you're like completely starting at round zero, at this point, you shouldn't even be looking at a VA or an OBM.
Speaker: But yeah, so what I look for, someone who has proven offers,
Speaker: someone who is willing to learn and not think that they know everything, right?
Speaker: Because I think that's the absolute worst when they're hiring you as a specialist, as an expert, but they gaslight you or they like, don't take your advice.
Speaker: It's dude, why the fuck am I here if you hired me for this and you decide to do your own shit anyway?
Speaker: Which is why I have a 30 day and a three month walk away period in my contracts.
Speaker: Because I don't ever want to stick around with someone for six months just because my contract said so.
Speaker: Because 30 days, I think, gives you a good insight of their personality and how they run the business.
Speaker: And at the three-month mark, you could pretty much tell if this is going to be a long-lasting relationship or not.
Speaker: So even though my contract says six months, in it, I also have the 30-day and the three-month walkaway period for both parties to agree whether or not they're going to move forward.
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker: I love that so much because, and thank you so much for sharing that because I think, you know, where a lot of us go wrong and I know where I went wrong was my contracts weren't ironclad and my contracts didn't actually protect me when I looked at them.
Speaker: I was like, wait, this is not even geared to protect me.
Speaker: What the hell?
Speaker: That said, contracts are a piece of paper.
Speaker: If you don't enforce them, it doesn't matter.
Speaker: So it's, I love that you have the 30 day walk away and the three month walk away.
Speaker: It's almost like a assessment period.
Speaker: And I love it because I
Speaker: It shows that you're not stuck in scarcity because I think what happens with a lot of service providers, and I say this because I became that way, and it's easy to fall into that trap, is like we start identifying so much with our clients that we take on.
Speaker: And then it's almost like you morph into the fact that you're the client.
Speaker: When you're not, you're your own entity, you are your own person, and you have your own business that you also need to market.
Speaker: And then it hurts when a separation comes in place.
Speaker: It hurts.
Speaker: And then it's because you get complacent and you haven't really been selling or like sharing your services.
Speaker: And you haven't really had that 30 day or three month assessment thing built in, which that's so smart.
Speaker: You're stuck in the dust and you're like, what the hell now?
Speaker: What?
Speaker: And it feels like you're in that feast and famine cycle as an agency owner,
Speaker: month to month or every couple of months when in fact ideally and this is take this however you will for all of you listening a business is a business when it's selling
Speaker: And yes, you will have seasons where you're not selling and where you may not sell as much, but a business is always open for business.
Speaker: Like a business is always open for business.
Speaker: There was a time where it was so heavily masculine in the industry.
Speaker: Like I think we started out at the same time, 2016, 2017 is when I started.
Speaker: It was so masculine and all of the bro marketers and all of the things.
Speaker: And then it moved into like heavy feminine.
Speaker: Let's get all the balloons and let's get all the whatever, like bathtub pictures and all.
Speaker: Nothing wrong with that, by the way.
Speaker: If that's your jam, go for it.
Speaker: But you don't get that jam without doing a bit of the masculine or like without proper support.
Speaker: Let's talk about like
Speaker: communicating with clients or like with team members and company culture in general.
Speaker: I know we touched a bit about it, but what, why do you think my mind is moving way too fast coaches and men coaches, mentors, service providers.
Speaker: Can we please dismantle the hierarchy?
Speaker: You know what I mean?
Speaker: Dear coach,
Speaker: We're here to tell you that as service providers, we actually are the foundation of your business and we carry your business.
Speaker: We love what you do and you bring an important service to the world.
Speaker: And so do we.
Speaker: There's so much that I have to say on this.
Speaker: And I'm not just being for myself.
Speaker: Like there are so many of my service provider friends that
Speaker: And on top of that, take it a step further, there are many BIPOC friends that I have that I don't know where we thought it's okay to let our art be commodified, our services be commodified, our time be commodified.
Speaker: I don't know when and where.
Speaker: And it's here we are trying to dismantle things, but like we keep perpetuating it at the same time.
Speaker: And that's where I'm going to stop.
Speaker: I feel like there's a lot to unpack in there.
Speaker: I know.
Speaker: There's a lot to unpack.
Speaker: I think it's interesting because we're obviously women and also people of color.
Speaker: So we are used to
Speaker: navigating multiple cultures and multiple expectations and being very sensitive of the environment and the current situation of the world and stuff like that obviously we have our biases and we also have like conditioning and all these x y and z's but
Speaker: I think what's important is first of all, in any situation is to be aware of the problem, right?
Speaker: So after that awareness, what are you going to do about it?
Speaker: And for me, like, that's what I utilize, like, my social media for what I see, what I think is not right, or what I do think is right.
Speaker: I
Speaker: I speak up about it and it's crazy because I, it's funny, I used to be a momfluencer before I decided I hated doing that.
Speaker: And I deleted like almost all of my followers.
Speaker: So now I only have 600 followers or whatever, but it's every time I post something, I have so many people in my DMs.
Speaker: It's always in the back.
Speaker: It's never on my comments or like the likes.
Speaker: It's always in the DMs.
Speaker: that people are like, oh my gosh, like what you said is so right and X, Y, and Z and blah, blah, blah, blah.
Speaker: But I don't know why it's so scary for people to talk about and advocating for themselves.
Speaker: And then, I don't know.
Speaker: Maybe it's just me.
Speaker: I just call it out as it is.
Speaker: And that's why I don't have that much stress in my life because I don't hold it in.
Speaker: Yeah, no.
Speaker: And it's so true.
Speaker: I love that because I feel as female founders and entrepreneurs, we already navigate a lot of different pieces.
Speaker: And then you take it a step further as BIPOC.
Speaker: And adding the LGBTQIA, like the whole thing to it.
Speaker: It's, we deal with an even, we deal with more layers that don't come with that we can't fathom.
Speaker: Like it's charging a certain way, speaking up, like the whole meek versus whatever.
Speaker: I feel like that goes across borders, but I feel like a lot of the women that I've worked with that
Speaker: come from certain situations that are of color.
Speaker: Like they deal with it on a whole different level.
Speaker: And then we also have our culture, the immigrant mindset is just get it done.
Speaker: Like you work your ass off and you just get it done.
Speaker: You don't, if no one else is going to do it, that's okay.
Speaker: Roll up your sleeves and go figure it out.
Speaker: A couple things.
Speaker: Not that long ago.
Speaker: Things have been blown up all over the place in 2022, truly.
Speaker: But I feel like the last month or two, like there's been a lot of things that have come to light more and more in this space.
Speaker: And in general, like what are some ways people can do better?
Speaker: Coaches, like as well as service providers.
Speaker: I feel like we've talked about the service providers.
Speaker: What are some things that, how are some ways that coaches can show up as better leaders?
Speaker: Jun's like, where do you want me to start?
Speaker: I know.
Speaker: It's funny because I had a brief stint as a business coach before I realized I fucking hated it.
Speaker: I just like being that behind the scenes person.
Speaker: I think first and foremost, you as a coach, you should stop treating your service providers as your bitch.
Speaker: That's the biggest thing.
Speaker: Don't expect them to do everything unless you're having obviously a general VA or whatever.
Speaker: But even in that, like you need to treat them with respect.
Speaker: They're a human being.
Speaker: And I don't know how many people like offhandedly in Facebook groups will be like, yeah, just hire a VA from the Philippines or hire a VA from India.
Speaker: they're so much cheaper and they'll do everything that you want.
Speaker: I'm like, okay, just because your currency is stronger than theirs, and just because they are navigating multiple languages to work with you, that doesn't mean that you get to treat them less.
Speaker: And don't get me wrong, of course, we all have our inner
Speaker: cultural biases and all of that because as a freaking Korean, we are so racist against other Asian people.
Speaker: But that being said, yeah, treat people with respect.
Speaker: I think that's the first thing.
Speaker: Like, I feel like what the rates that you pay them is even secondary because once that respect comes, then it's like a no-brainer to be like, oh, yeah, like, obviously, $8 an hour is not a good pay rate for...
Speaker: freaking like now at least $8 or $7 an hour when minimum wage in Canada was $7 an hour while I was 14 working at like my local Tim Hortons like that was my first job but if you're paying your VA anything less than 25 or 30 dollars
Speaker: month and that's like for an entry level if you're paying them anything less than that get the hell out of here no just no and I love that you say this because one of my designers was located in the Philippines and like she's wonderful at what she does and I was like what's your address like I want to send you something I know it'll get there a little bit later but I want to send you something and she like she sent me this message like full of tears she was like you would do that for me and I'm like yeah like you're
Speaker: a part of my team even though I don't have consistent design work for you yet you're so part of you're my go-to person I want to send you something and she's like no one's done that like for me and I've worked with so many and I'm like I am so sorry I'm so sorry yeah it's so sad because that's the expectations that they themselves have oh like I'm gonna be treated as I know safe
Speaker: And it's no, take some.
Speaker: Of course, coaches give respect to them, but service providers have respect for yourself too.
Speaker: That being said, don't be like, oh, this is anti-gift for this work.
Speaker: That's not the attitude that I want you to.
Speaker: Yeah, that's not that.
Speaker: Obviously, still be humble.
Speaker: But there's that, I don't know.
Speaker: I think it definitely goes both ways.
Speaker: I think it's the pedestal, right?
Speaker: I feel like we all put people on pedestals.
Speaker: Like, I did that.
Speaker: I was so guilty of that.
Speaker: Yeah, that's just natural.
Speaker: It's natural.
Speaker: It's human, right?
Speaker: It's natural to, like, fangirl.
Speaker: And it's our four-line talking.
Speaker: because like we're able to see the relationship flows yeah yeah like i like if i think back i wrote this post a long time ago i was like i've always worked with powerhouses i just never realized that because i didn't allow myself to see that because we keep ourselves trapped in the perceived projections and limitations that people
Speaker: like the projections are real but it's can you walk out of that can you master that wobble and I don't think you ever get over the wobble I just think you get through it quicker and don't put anyone on a pedestal like it doesn't matter if it's a coach that you've admired for so long and now you get to work with them or it doesn't matter if you're ghost writing a celebrity book like it doesn't matter whatever it is like people are people we're all humans at the end of the day and at its core I think every human just wants to be
Speaker: heard and respected and appreciated that's all it is and it's like business is human and we're bringing that back bringing that back yeah like we're bringing that back and I think you're studying human design right now with Elisa Canale and I feel like that's such a powerful way for you to weave that into your work with clients and with team like how are you freaking it's so crazy I literally was telling her the other day like
Speaker: I always viewed marketing or operations from a very holistic perspective because there is no one size fits all, even for ads, even for copy, as you very well know, what resonates for someone is not going to resonate for another person.
Speaker: Like you could have the same fucking industry, the same type of audience, but there's only one you.
Speaker: And yeah,
Speaker: That's why I feel like it was so important to make sure that you have the systems, you have the copy, you have the processes that make sense for you and your business.
Speaker: And it's funny, obviously, I'm not a human design expert or anything.
Speaker: I'm still very new about it.
Speaker: And I feel because I have an open head and open Ajna, I'm able to take their thoughts and their processes and make it so that it makes sense for that person.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: So I'm like using my open center as like a superpower for them, for my clients, because before it was like, I had to piece it together manually.
Speaker: But now because I have this tool of human design and gene keys, like
Speaker: I'm able to go to that result so much faster.
Speaker: Be like, okay, like this is how things make sense for you.
Speaker: What do you think?
Speaker: And it's, oh my gosh, yeah, you're right.
Speaker: Instead of having to go and do all these like minor tweaking, because this is what like the intuition that I got from them.
Speaker: Of course, it still plays a big part.
Speaker: But having a tool like that is like so freaking useful.
Speaker: And
Speaker: In fact, side topic off of that is human design is not a freaking cop out, guys.
Speaker: Okay?
Speaker: It's just a tool.
Speaker: Yeah, like you can't just use your human design to be an asshole all the time or to not do the tasks or...
Speaker: Whatever it is, like it's understanding like your human design is supposed to liberate you and make you feel free and empower you to be who you are versus put you in a box.
Speaker: That's why you got out and started a business, right?
Speaker: To get out of a box.
Speaker: So I don't know why we it's like we start attaching ourselves to like the modalities that we take on or the clients that we take on or like the titles and it's stop.
Speaker: They're not you.
Speaker: They're a toolkit and you get to pull whatever toolkit in your box you have, depending on who needs it, when you need to bring it out.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I know many gens that are actually so stable and grounded.
Speaker: I know projectors that don't want to rest all the time.
Speaker: Like they want rest is different for them.
Speaker: It looks different for each person, but I know projectors that are like, they get a lot done and they're hella aligned and
Speaker: They don't want to sleep all day all the time.
Speaker: I know manifestors that don't just go into angry, combustive rage all the time.
Speaker: Or I also know manifestors that we can go.
Speaker: We can go like a workhorse in a consistent rhythm.
Speaker: But at least for me, it's the ability to be consistent is who is capping on my energy.
Speaker: Don't be a crab bucket on my energy.
Speaker: If you're not that, and if you allow me to feel free, I'll give you my life.
Speaker: Not literally, but like, it's that mutual thing.
Speaker: And also as a four line, it like has to be mutually beneficial.
Speaker: I think as four lines, we have a massive network.
Speaker: And we're very adept at relationship building.
Speaker: So it's also been discerning about who gets to leverage that part of us.
Speaker: Oh, yeah.
Speaker: For sure.
Speaker: It's funny because I always thought that was a normal thing to do, to assess people and see what they bring to the table.
Speaker: I never did that.
Speaker: I started to do that last year.
Speaker: But I was like, oh, you mean you don't do that?
Speaker: And then my husband's always like, you're such a calculative little person.
Speaker: But you're not.
Speaker: You're just very... Four lines are called the opportunist, and it gets such a negative connotation, but we're not that.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It just has to be a win-win.
Speaker: I don't think I'm going to do anything less just because you don't quote-unquote bring anything to the whole place.
Speaker: Just, oh, I'm putting into consideration because in the future, if something pops up, now I know who to go to.
Speaker: Exactly.
Speaker: oh, so how is this person beneficial to you?
Speaker: I'm like, that's not the case.
Speaker: If that was the case, then half of my friends wouldn't be my friends.
Speaker: Oh, I love you.
Speaker: Oh my God.
Speaker: This has been a blast.
Speaker: June, okay, tell me, like, what are some ways that people could work with you?
Speaker: What's next for you?
Speaker: All of those juicy goods.
Speaker: Oh my gosh.
Speaker: It's so funny that you asked me that because I feel like right now,
Speaker: I'm in like a very comfortable spot in my business, which is amazing.
Speaker: Let's see.
Speaker: I do have at this current moment, I do have one more spot available for me to come in as a fractional CEO or CMO.
Speaker: And then on top of that, I do have actually, it depends on the service, but about three spots for my digital marketing agency.
Speaker: Literally could cover anything from SEO to social media ads to landing pages funnels Systems all that good stuff.
Speaker: So yeah, I am Very happy to give you a little friend discount if you came through from Tonya, of course and I
Speaker: If you want to look more or connect with me more, you can connect with me on my Instagram, June J. Chang.
Speaker: And there's also my company, Leviosa Marketing.
Speaker: And Leviosa is definitely from Harry Potter.
Speaker: That's a Harry Potter thing.
Speaker: Everyone always asks.
Speaker: They're like, is that from Harry Potter?
Speaker: I'm like, yes, I am a Harry Potter nerd.
Speaker: Leviosa.
Speaker: I love that name.
Speaker: I remember when you shared it with us and we're like, oh my God, Harry Potter.
Speaker: I know.
Speaker: I'm a nerd.
Speaker: I'm a nerd.
Speaker: I love it.
Speaker: Oh my goodness.
Speaker: Thank you so much, June.
Speaker: This has been a blast.
Speaker: I know we covered a lot of different topics in here.
Speaker: For those of you listening, there are going to be the show notes.
Speaker: I normally leave them to your imagination because I want you to experience it.
Speaker: But on this podcast, for this episode particularly, we're going to have a few different...
Speaker: key pieces there in the show notes for you go connect with June follow her stalker on the Instagram because she shares a lot of valuable mic drops when she's driving I miss those by the way so I don't know if you're bringing them back but those are very funny and she's very matter of fact so if you enjoy dry humor just as much as I do with a bit of satire and truth go follow her and we'll see you next week
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