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Doug Bihlmaier - Head of Vintage & Consultant: Ralph Lauren
2.7k Plays1 month ago
Today I’m in East Hampton, New York to sit down with arguably one of the greatest collectors of all time. In fact, his career has revolved around collecting as the Head of Vintage, now consultant, for Ralph Lauren and we can attribute our love for western and layered looks to him. Doug Bihlmaier is my guest today, and for his first ever video interview and podcast, I was more than thrilled to sit down with him in his home and spend the day together with him and his wife. Growing up in Kansas, Doug fell in love with denim and began collecting early on. But it’s not that simple. Doug noticed Levis’ started to change their fit, so as one collector does, he starts hunting for the old stuff. But that’s what has made Doug the person we all look up to today.
He’s always had the foresight as to what’s next, which is exactly what happened when he was introduced to the Ralph Lauren brand early on. Doug has spent his career traveling the world hunting for vintage goods for the stores and had anyone looked behind the curtain of the early days at the RRL store, you would have seen Doug curating one of the most impressive collections around. He recalls going to warehouses in the UK and finding old equestrian and oil paintings in gilt frames that no one wanted, and riding boots, and wool blankets from the 20’s and 30’s, and just about everything else that makes up the Ralph Lauren brand today.
However, it’s not just searching the world for objects that makes Doug, well Doug. His design, architecture, and merchandising prowess have all played a big role in why we all admire Doug, and you can feel, touch, and breathe that when you walk into any Ralph Lauren and RRL store. As for Doug, well, his home is filled and layered with wool blankets, vintage denim and flannels, Native American jewelry and objects, books, you name it. And he can tell you everything you need to know about each of them.
I truly feel honored to share this interview with you all, but even more grateful to call Doug a friend. So without great honor, this is Doug Bihlmaier, for Collectors Gene Radio.
YouTube Video - https://youtu.be/O-dEkHd01gQ?si=ys_nbCdiXy9vvgy-
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Transcript
Introduction to Collector's Gene
00:00:00
Speaker
Sometimes the best doesn't cost much. you know That's a beautiful thing. I spent my life looking for the next thing. Looking for something that no one figured out yet. is all about diving into the nuances of collecting and ultimately finding out whether or not our guests have what we like to call the collector's gene.
Meet Doug Billmeyer
00:00:38
Speaker
Today, I'm in East Hampton, New York to sit down with arguably one of the greatest collectors of all time. In fact, his career has revolved around collecting as the head of vintage, now consultant for Ralph Lauren. And we can attribute our love for Western and layered looks to him. Doug Billmeyer is my guest today. And for his first ever interview and podcast, I was more than thrilled to sit down with him in his home and spend the day together with him and his wife. Growing up in Kansas, Doug fell in love with Denim and began collecting early on. But it's not that simple. See, Doug noticed Levi's started to change their fit, so as one collector does, he starts hunting for the old stuff. That's what has made Doug the person we all look up to today.
Doug's Impact on Ralph Lauren Vintage
00:01:18
Speaker
He's always had the foresight as to what's next, which is exactly what happened when he was introduced to the Ralph Lauren brand pretty early on.
00:01:25
Speaker
Doug has spent his career traveling the world hunting for vintage goods for the stores and had anyone look behind the curtain of the early days at the RRL store, you would have seen Doug curating one of the most impressive collections around. He recalls going to warehouses in the UK and finding old equestrian and oil paintings and gilt frames that nobody wanted and riding boots and wool blankets from the 20s and 30s and just about everything else that makes up the Ralph Lauren brand today.
00:01:51
Speaker
However, it's not just searching the world for objects that makes Doug, well, Doug, his design, architecture, and merchandising prowess have all played a big role in why we all admire Doug, and you can feel, touch, and breathe that when you walk into any Ralph Lauren and Double RL store.
00:02:07
Speaker
As for Doug, well, his home is filled and layered with wool blankets and vintage denim and flannels, Native of American jewelry and objects, books, you name it. And he can tell you everything you need to know about each of them. I truly feel honored to share this interview with you all, but even more grateful to call Doug a friend. So with great honor, this is Doug Villmar, for Collector's Gene Radio.
Doug's Collecting Journey
00:02:31
Speaker
Doug Billmeyer, previous head of vintage at Ralph, now consultant for the brand for the Vintage Buying Team. Welcome to Collector's New Radio. Thank you. Very nice of you, Cameron. So we're in your home and it's pretty special because this is actually not only your first podcast, but maybe your first video interview before. And I'm honored that you chose me to do it. I'm glad you asked and you were persistent. I was, um' I'll admit that. Pretty bashful most of the time. and I heard nothing but good things. I appreciate that. And, you know, Carter encouraged and Barry encouraged and they're both dear friends. Love it. Well, I appreciate that. And it's funny because, you know, there's not
00:03:13
Speaker
very much about you online, and actually a lot of curiosity about you. But there's one thing that kind of stays consistent with anyone that's talking about you and your team and what you have done. And at the end of the day, everyone always says thank you. And everyone says, you got to thank Doug. If you ever meet Doug, you got to say thank you. And that's because you're responsible for pretty much everything that we're surrounded by and things like double RL. I mean, it's, you're a big part of the heart of that. And so on behalf of everyone, and this is your first interview, thank you. Well, and I think going back to, you know, I learned, you know, a long, long, long time ago, and and and and probably Ralph himself, you wouldn't have been where you got to if you didn't have those people with the great shit. Absolutely. And and and it's got it's gotta to work for both.
00:04:03
Speaker
You know, they got to walk away happy. Absolutely. And knowing that you're still looking for more. Right. So, you know, don't stop. And so treating everyone with respect and being loyal and allowing those people to, you know, only, it's only going to be great things for you. Absolutely. and you know So it is it is You know, it's it's it's like the guy back there doing dishes. Right. He's a really important part of that. 100%. Everyone would be getting sick if it wasn't really. Yeah. yeah yeah or Or they wouldn't have anything to eat on either. yeah Anyway. And so you grew up in Kansas. And I'm curious to know the things that you saw growing up that really inspired you to kind of start this trajectory of of your career. Well, it was a really small small town. I think 1,800 people. And I think there's less there now. Very much a farming community.
00:05:03
Speaker
um And it's funny because a lot of the things that I looked for that Ralph coveted, that I coveted, were all things that were in my childhood. oh I mean, one of my grandfathers wore overalls every day.
00:05:22
Speaker
with a chambray shirt and he had long-sleeved chambray shirts he had short-sleeved chambray shirts and sometimes he wore a waffle and sometimes you know depending on the weather I had another grandfather who wore Levi jeans and he actually liked flannel shirts but he also wore a lot of denim shirts and yeah chambray shirts so again all that's you know has been and and i and and And one of my great uncles, he he always wore
00:05:56
Speaker
an open road. I didn't know what an open road was at the time. He always wore a khaki shirt, khaki pants, and some Roper suede boots. i I swear I have the same boots that he did, you know. And so, yeah yes, there was a lot of things that were going on that, unknowns to me, became what happened in your career.
Fashion Influences and Iconic Figures
00:06:21
Speaker
And so in high school, you start collecting Levi's and that's kind of... Well, it wasn't an active, I'm going to start this or whatever. The Levi...
00:06:35
Speaker
was always kind of my gene. I remember uh you know you also I was also influenced obviously no internet no no computer so you were influenced by the different you know photographs album covers especially that I would see and obviously blue jeans and obviously George Harrison with the the western shirt and on the Abbey on it's abby Road yeah and and the desert boots. So that became like my look. And the Levi back then, there
00:07:14
Speaker
you had to break them in yourself. There was no, you know, pre-wash situation. And also I, you know, I i knew that the Le-Lice had changed. I didn't know about the Big E or the Little E or whatever.
00:07:32
Speaker
But something was different. So and so for a couple of reasons, I started looking for old Levi's because number one, someone already did the freaking hard work, breaking them in, and and they were beautiful. And number two, they had the old fit. Right. And so from there, you go to work at a clothing company, your store rather, called
Meeting Ralph Lauren
00:07:55
Speaker
Woody's. And that's kind of where you got introduced to Ralph. Yeah, one of one of my one of the stories that I tell is Woody had sent me to the airport in Kansas City to pick up some guy from New York who worked for a company called Holo Ralph Lauren.
00:08:13
Speaker
So I got there not knowing what the heck to, you know, I don't even know what this guy looks like. I don't know, you know, how am I going to find this guy? And the guy, you know, and you could go right to the gate then, right to the plane. And so anyway, everyone's getting off the plane, Nick shirts, you know, polyester, you know, it looked like you know, the movie casino, you know, like perfect. And here comes a guy in a wide well corduroy suit, suede elbow patches. They were quilted elbow patches. He had like a flower shirt on with with a yellow club tie. It was amazing. Yeah. So that was my first, you know, inkling of wow. Yeah. Oh, I want to look like this guy.
00:09:06
Speaker
five always before, you know, I'd go to class, and I'd have my my Levi, George Harrison, flower shirt, Neil Young look, or would I would have the, I would come to work in my preppy button down, you know. So that's kind of where one of the guys that worked there kind of a Woody Allen type guy. We were a tweed suit with a plaid shirt and a plaid tie. And he and I would do windows and pretty soon I was just doing windows. But that was a big inspiration was.
00:09:48
Speaker
you know breaking some of the rules. Yes. Early. Yeah. There's pattern on pattern on pattern. Right. Color against color against color. Not matching matching matching matching. Right. Which is where up until then was pretty much men wore dark suits, black ties, white shirts. The tie was was a statement for some guys. Sure. And the women were pretty boring. So the whole generation, the young generation that would stop generation, that was a pretty much, you know, right out there. Yeah, absolutely. You know, revolutionary thing. And then how do you transition into working at Ralph?
00:10:36
Speaker
Well, I think i think that's, you know, the one thing that that that I learned at Ralph was, you know, the serious clothes, the suits, the sport coats don't have to be so serious, right?
Creation of the Double RL Line
00:10:52
Speaker
And the real casual Woodstock Neil Young clothes don't have to be so casual Woodstock that you can mix you mix it all together, which he was doing. And one of the things that I got to witness was you growing up in Woody's in Canada just to The first, you know, casual rough wear line was called chaps. I was telling you earlier, I think that was the first time Ralph had a blue team. And that would have been...
00:11:29
Speaker
mid 70s, you know. And Western wear, then I went to Dallas years later in the 79. Western wear was kind of the big thing then. And again, he was starting with the jeans and the flannel shirts. I think by the time I got to New York in 84,
00:11:56
Speaker
is when the country store thing had really started being a big deal, early 80s, mid 80s. And so then when WRL was sort of the next, the next step, and that was early 90s. Yeah, like 90, 293-ish? Well, they started, they probably started working on it in that in 1991, 92, I think I think they give 93 as the beginning of the company so it must have been when the first port store opened a little corner which was double around. So you had this really modern
00:12:40
Speaker
all you know and white club big big yachting crew thing right down the middle and then then you had this little shop I even made sure the stale the stairs creaked and I still have a lot of the things from that original store in my office But, you know, it was a big American flag and some old pin signs, but not too crusty, you know? And back then, the line double RL was pretty small. It was, you know, a few pair of jeans, a few pair of flannel shirts. So the vintage, which later became my job,
00:13:29
Speaker
was, it became a big part of the store. Maybe 50-60% of the store was vintage right because it had to be, to fill the store up. And had anyone peeled the curtain back, they would have seen all the things that you were collecting.
00:13:47
Speaker
to really get that kind of get that going, right?
Vintage in Ralph Lauren Stores
00:13:51
Speaker
Yeah, no. And and and there was, you know, the vintage to to be probably profitable, I'm not sure. henry Ralph wanted it in other places, other special stores. That's about the time he he went over to East Hampton. So that sort of became a little bit of a, what am I going to say,
00:14:16
Speaker
you know, testing ground, if you will. So that was kind of started as a country store with the brooms and the quilts and the, you know, usual country store if Ralph did a country store right look. And kind of then evolved into this collection store and, you know, sexy swimsuits and meeting collection where And Vintage became a part of that. Vintage watches, vintage leather jackets,
00:14:54
Speaker
and Levi the Levi jean was, you know, even to this day, there was just something about the denim, something about the fit.
00:15:19
Speaker
throughout the years, you're hunting for all these things. What's the process of opening up a new store and having to go out and source and collect all these vintage things to fill the store with? Well, obviously, it's evolved into something else totally today.
00:15:41
Speaker
But back in the olden days, the flea markets were still pretty full of discarded furniture, which even the mansion was pretty much regency style furniture, which was sort of like used furniture to the English people. Right. you know um and But, you know, it was all about capturing the look and oh and sort of learning as you went, to be honest. because There was nothing that any of us were like trained professionals or anything. So it was like Ralph's doing country, Ralph's doing Santa Fe, Ralph's doing, you know, ski lodge, Ralph's doing
00:16:46
Speaker
sometimes the hard way but, you know, and it was shopping back in those days markets. Yeah, all over the world. All of love. The Paris flea market was probably the oh my god, you know, market of all markets. Brimfield was for me more vintage clothes as opposed to furniture but a lot of the things in my house are from Burmfield a lot of the things in Mr. Lawrence Colorado you know ranch is is from Burmfield so again
00:17:30
Speaker
a Before the internet and stuff, people were coming, you know, at certain times, several times a year to these markets from all over the country, or if you're in Europe, all over Europe, and bringing with them their little treasures. For you to take. For you to pick. And that was always the great thing about Ralph Lauren, is that you got to pick. Yeah. An antique dealer might be more focused on, okay, I'm going to buy this chair for 50 bucks because I can sell it for 150 bucks. right But that wasn't what we were doing. Yours was more merchandising. It was more, yeah, it was more telling a story both in a showroom and a store or in a home. And if someone wanted to buy a grip. Yeah. And and the when we first started Double RL, it was
00:18:28
Speaker
Most everything that wasn't tied down, that wasn't a major fixture was for sale.
Challenges in Vintage Sales
00:18:34
Speaker
for All the artwork, surfboards, the lamps, the side tables, which was kind of a scary thing, to be honest. like if they really If that would have really taken off, holy shit. For sure. yeah I was always nervous about that, yeah ah but it actually Yeah, I did okay, but didn't do good enough for, you know, the money people. Sure. Well, the clothing had a nice turn, had a nice...
00:19:09
Speaker
you know, markup. Right. It's hard to learn furniture. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. It's a it's an aesthetic thing. If you're buying the best stuff. Right. Especially today. Right. For sure. Yeah. um You know, even then, you know, I bought this for $10. This chair. I love this chair. It's fantastic. Yeah. To me, this is a thousand dollar chair. But I wouldn't really want to sell it because no one would want to give me a thousand dollars. That makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. And so as you're collecting all these things for the stores, you're also collecting for yourself because the things that are in the stores are also what's surrounded by them now. And that's really, you know, what I wanted to talk to you about is, is, yeah, it was, I kind of had a rule back in the day because I, you know,
00:19:59
Speaker
Like everyone, we weren't making any money. it was our We were just having fun. This was passion. you know We're going to go shopping. yeah show So many times I saw things that, man, I wish I had money. you know But if it was under 100 bucks, I kept it. Easy.
00:20:18
Speaker
yeah So a lot of my blankets were cheap, right? yeah There's a hole in practically 90% of them. It was recently, more in the last few years, as I've gotten older and not really finding that much under $100. Right. Can't breathe for under $100. Realizing maybe it's better to buy something a little bit more, you know, like we're talking about Barry and the blankets. Yeah, sure. He's got the
00:20:52
Speaker
You know, he's got the style and the model beat up ones, but then there's the stock of the really great ones. It's kind of nice to get one of the really great ones. Yeah, once in a blue moon, it's nice to speak about it. You'll make it one of those. Right. and But I think think that's the other thing about in the Lauren world,
00:21:21
Speaker
of looking for the patina, looking for the age, looking for the real you know the real character. character And a lot of that stuff doesn't have a lot of age left. Right. You know, but it looks amazing. Yeah, I think it's instant gratification for, you know, people like myself for going out to dinner, they're going to a friend's house. I got these great patch jeans at Ralph Lauren. Amazing. You know, you did your job. But I think
00:21:58
Speaker
Finding in that gene that's not patched yet, finding that, you know. And, or you know, as far as us retailing it, it it's definitely a fine line. yeah If it's too new, they're not interested. But yeah, I see guys posting online, you know, and obviously but When I started this whole thing, we were going to the Rose Bowl, but every other month, really. The the thing then was most people that were buying vintage were the Japanese. right And the yen was trading amazing against the dollar. That was another huge problem. But what they were most interested in is dead stock.
00:22:45
Speaker
obviously I was looking for the stuff with the patina right yeah so I would be usually on the back row of the rose bowl where these guys are showing up with the rags right what you know their Levi's were C's not A's, you know That's so it kind of worked out. Yeah, you guys buy all the new shit on my own And it worked for the dealers really well. Yeah, cuz they could pick up both Yeah, cuz they saw both right and obviously I'm gonna charge them off for this cuz it's got the tag and duh duh duh For me back then it was sort of like it's a dead stock for a reason it didn't sell, right? Yeah, no one wanted it. It didn't fit anybody. Yeah, I
00:23:32
Speaker
So why do I want it? Now, I think, you know, if we see something cool instead stock and has a tag on it. Yeah, it might be worth it. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. When you're buying all this stuff.
00:23:45
Speaker
you know You're talking about condition of things, right? you're You're looking for things that maybe have a little bit more character to them. Was that kind of the business plan for Vintage at Ralph from day one? like Don't spend a bunch of money on the highest quality or the the you know best condition stuff, find stuff that has character, we'll toss it in the store. I think today it's not changed. Ralph is the customer, yeah and both in his regular product one, there's no tougher customer than Ralph Lauren. Right. And so, you know, he once told me, if you don't want it, I don't want it. You know, I can say to this day,
00:24:43
Speaker
everything that I bought, if it would have fit me and I would have needed it, yeah I would have kept it. It would have been my closet. Right. now And a lot of it is. Yeah. ah Again, playing the hundred dollar rule though. So in terms of, you know, putting vintage in the store and merchandising and you're amongst new things, you have a sale tag on and that just came out of, you know, the production facility and you have a vintage Case a bracelet and stuff. What's the? Merchandising strategy of mixing the vintage. Yeah, that's right. You asked me about that. Was that the plan? Yeah, and and I think that's been
00:25:24
Speaker
The wonderful thing since day one, this was Ralph's baby. ah Let's leave him alone a little bit. You know, there's been rough times back in the day when stuff didn't sell and we've invested all this money and blah, blah, blah. Now, I think they're doing record numbers. I should have quit a long time ago. And I think it's just really,
00:25:52
Speaker
More and more and more people have become aware, right now. Back then and today, obviously, you want to buy the best of the best. It's got Ralph Lauren's name on the door. So you you you want them to walk in and walk out with the best. And there's there's nothing else. And sometimes the best doesn't cost much. you know That's a beautiful thing.
00:26:23
Speaker
I spent my life looking for the next thing, looking for something that no one figured out yet. And I think there's still things out there. you know ah Like for instance, I was showing you, I've got a little collection of quilts over the years. I still think quilts are undervalued. Absolutely. They're 1880s, indigo patches. You're paying a lot of money for what? Squares. yeah Anyway, and it's all hands done.
00:26:53
Speaker
Anyway, the you know, stuff like that. And, that you know, Navajo rugs, Dene rugs, I should say. Things like that. I think still the, what I want to say, the ethnic is not necessarily a great word, but you know what I mean? a different the The different regions around the world. Cultural history. Yeah, the cultural, you know, what happened yeah back then.
00:27:20
Speaker
To me, it's amazing. To me, is that's what it's all about. Well, I think it's a testament to if we go back to the beginning of our conversation, you sourcing these Levi's for yourself because you realized that they had changed and you realized things were changing. And then you saw something in Ralph. And I think you've always obviously had that eye for what's next. And that's why you've probably been so successful in your careers.
00:27:46
Speaker
you know, head of vintage and and consulting and and just collecting in general. When it comes to sourcing these days, It's a big job, there's a lot of stores. A lot of stores. You probably have people I'm assuming sourcing all over for you at this point? Yeah, there's there's several, you know, the more you can be diversified around the country, around the world. that' that's ah That's a great thing. ah It's, you know, I think there's there's there's great people that are young.
00:28:18
Speaker
that are finding stuff. I mean that's the scary thing that a lot of the shows that I grew up going to as a very young man in learning all the stuff about Western or you know turquoise or you know novel readings or you know whatever you're learning from the people because that's that's the best thing is ask questions right if you're in if you're if you've fallen in love with something find out as much as the guy knows that's selling it
00:28:54
Speaker
And obviously today you have
Sourcing Vintage Today
00:28:57
Speaker
Google. so you know I was a professional before Google came around ah on just about everything. yeah ah So anyway, that that I think is is what, you know if something interests you, that's that's what you you you know you'll get drawn into it yeah by learning more and more about it and realizing what was going on when this was being made. and yeah For me, that's that's that you know I like that more handmade
00:29:31
Speaker
you know, both rugs and furniture and clothing. It's all about the the hand of bespoke, you know, stuff that's in Japan, the you know, the stuff the poor people will, you know, it's generally more of the workers, the you know the you know the um but not the richer class, right ah not that.
00:30:02
Speaker
didn't have a lot of great stuff more from London than any place that was also bespoke and whatever. But I think the the most amazing thing is a lot of the things that we love started out to be work where we're selling brand new for $5, $25. In fact, Mr. Orange had that interview about 70 years ago
00:30:33
Speaker
where he talks about the shirt they got from wal from Walmart. yeah the so So that's the beautiful thing is when something costs $10. So as far as collecting goes, most of my stuff is
00:30:58
Speaker
It's the stuff that people, I mean, vintage comes from Right. So the life cycle of it. It's that's the life cycle. Yeah. Someday all my stuff is going to be in the same boat. Well,
00:31:18
Speaker
I think what what's interesting is the idea of building an archive as you collect because you need to pull on things for inspiration. You also need a place to store things because, you know, I'm sure starting out, you didn't have to collect that much, but as you got more and more stores that you had to merchandise, you had to collect a lot because you didn't know what would get used, what wouldn't get used. you know and Well, mostly as far as stores went,
00:31:45
Speaker
you and I'm sure it's probably the same today, you you you had to buy it off of that budget. So the budget had to be created somewhere and hopefully whoever was doing that short stayed there somehow because it all gets wrapped into that particular location against their bottom line. right So however a much a cost to open a store is all part of the formula. Part of all that. yeah So I think that Ralph Lauren
00:32:21
Speaker
basically goes over budget on every single store. Basically every place you could go over budget says a lot saying it doesn't compromise. right You could open a lot of cheaper stores and still have the same shit in there. right But it's about the store that he's telling. And that's that's that's what, again, all the stuff I have Basically, I was out across something I couldn't say no to. Yeah, I wanted to have. But as far as me and my collecting, it's it's more for me, I didn't collect it to be collecting, and I collected it because I liked it as art.
00:33:26
Speaker
I use it. you know and that I think if it's too precious, I don't really want it. Yeah. Well, that's that's the thing. it's There's this. this push and pull of really wanting something, but maybe it's too precious or maybe it's too expensive and you're worried to use it or you're worried to wear it versus just finding something like these blankets, which are fantastic.
00:33:48
Speaker
And you could toss it around you when it's cold out. You could layer it on a sofa. You could put it on a chair and you don't worry about it. Yeah. yeah remember and and And I think it's funny because I covered this stuff and tell one of my daughters to do something. i Take whatever you want. Yeah, exactly. ah Maybe not that one. But yeah, yeah you know I think that's What it's about is is you loving it and everyone appreciates it or hopefully loves it as well. Both your friends, your family, people you have come over. I think the thing I learned again from Mr. Lauren is when you're doing
00:34:34
Speaker
You know, I really came home when I was years and years ago working on the ranch. And, you know, but it's the same as a window or anything. Most of your building material is anyway. It's wood. Right. Yeah. So it's brown. Right. Everything is brown. Right? Yep. And you can paint a white. But so all these fabrics are the color.
00:35:02
Speaker
of the room. ye and they all mix it out that's what me And there's a term that Mr. Warren uses, happy. It's got to be happy. yeah know It's got to make you want it. It's got to make you feel good.
00:35:17
Speaker
about being around it, being with it, being, you know.
Doug's Aesthetic Philosophy
00:35:22
Speaker
So that, that obviously has ruled, you know, and I and i think the mix of the, you know, the American, you know, beacon blanket with the American Indian rug with the Japanese indigo, with the molly, you know, all that stuff.
00:35:43
Speaker
you know, it's good together. yeah I mean, there was something, I was laughing, I read not too long ago, on Instagram, you know, it's not hoarding if it's cool. yeah that's true And that's that's sort of, I think, where I am right now. Do I need anything? No. who Am I gonna get tempted by something? Yes.
00:36:08
Speaker
When I go shopping, is there a shopping list? Is there a plan? Thank God, no, you know, I think You know, if you're doing a particular showroom or a particular look, I've got to find Navy, I've got to find Army, I've got to find country, you know, whatever it is. There's always something that was there. But as far as the vintage, and as far as anything, I think, in any one, I think the more you go with it open, with the mind. This is what's here. Right. Doesn't matter what you're looking for. Yes, exactly. This is what's here. Yeah. So it's either here, something's here you like, or something's not here. Right. And I think that's the other thing that I learned very early. It's not bad to walk away with the money still in your pocket. Right. And have them buy crap. Yeah, I was talking about this the other day. And the thing about collecting and going to a flea market is the joy of it. And if you can leave there,
00:37:09
Speaker
having not spent the time and still be happy, you're probably the collector. Yeah, you know that's that's definitely like you can do it once around. right it you know or you know that There's all kinds of, and ah in and I think
00:37:33
Speaker
I don't want to say where I find it, but I mean, on Instagram, obviously, you know, ah that's like, you know, most of the stuff's already sold. Right. Yes. most of the stuff's in Japan. Yeah. And that's one of the things we've talked about. And I've been talking about it since day one, and someday we're going to go over there and buy it all back. Yeah. Not buy it all back, but you know. Good amount. Yeah. Because that's, you know, we weren't smart enough sometimes to hold other things, but that's the way, that's the way the world happens and I think that's what makes it interesting, you know? It's how it's got to be. Because I've got a few things I bought over there that they they probably want back. They would love to have back. So, you know, it's all, that's the beautiful part about
00:38:18
Speaker
The world I think is is for me. It's the French flea market or that that amazing table of some historic farm in Japan or Africa is more interesting anymore and more tempting to me because I've never seen it all. No, you know, the American kind of know, I know it and I love it and I have it. And that's, if you're gonna add, I think the more diversity, the more diversity is a bad word, but the more interesting it is, the mix it up. absolutely I've already said that, but you know what I mean. Yeah, it makes sense. At the end of the day, you've had an extremely successful
The Importance of Collecting
00:39:07
Speaker
career. You are someone that people really look up to, especially in the in the vintage space.
00:39:13
Speaker
Why is collecting so important to you? Well, I think that's where you kind of get good at buying stuff, you know, and seeing cool stuff, especially like I said, if you see it before they realize how special it is. I think lots of times I can get turned off really quick just by the price. Absolutely. You know, I love it that much. And like I said, I think the things that are a little torn, the more
00:39:50
Speaker
the more they're torn the more the beat up kind of the better for me can't think of anything I'm out there I gotta have I mean I've been kind of looking for a cool
00:40:17
Speaker
You know, something's wrong. that's a look But you know, there's always something that's out there that if I see one, I'm going to grab it. um I love it. I'm a nut for galvanized. I keep buying these galvanized pots for my flowers that are like $20, $10. They're great. Sometimes you go, what did you pay for? Right? What the hell? ah But yeah, no, I think, you know, um Again, I go down to that beach every ah day, every other day, and I drag another shell home, another piece of beach class, if I can find one, you know. So I'm always, I think that's
00:41:03
Speaker
who you are, thats who I am, is just somebody that's always shopping. yeah you know It's a good good job to have. yeah Supermarket, same way. right i realize I gotta to go to the best place. yeah Yeah, I love it. Let's wrap it up with the collectors dream rundown. You know this, you know you can answer these questions based on any of the things that you collect, whether it's blankets, whether it's galvanized pots or bracelets, totally up to you, sound good? All right, what's the one that got away?
00:41:31
Speaker
Yeah, I would say that's obviously at the time. Shit, I wish I were about that. And there's a lot of that happens to me almost at every show, whether it's a flannel shirt or a blanket. But I think more than anything, it's it's more, I wish I would have bought more Levi's when they were cheaper. you where it Makes sense. you know I mean, thank God I've been able to maintain pretty much my same weight all these years, so I'm wearing the same jeans that I bought for $200, $100 from the 90s, early 90s.
00:42:18
Speaker
i think you know I think all these years I had several opportunities to buy things that I bought more for the company. So I think the Dene rugs were very, very undervalued, still undervalued. So I can't stop buying those. I can't stop buying the cotton blankets. I think those are undervalued. So I just think they're so unique.
00:42:50
Speaker
It's, even in my world, you see so few of them short over and over again. I mean, there's a couple that you see over and over again, but you know, I think the Navajo blankets, that you'll never see them all. You'll never see, you know. And I think that's probably, fabrics is where I'm going to just say I can never seem to find it up and the things that got away are usually some great thing I saw in the fabric world that someone grabbed. Anyway. Makes sense. How about the on deck circle? So this is something that is next for you in collecting, something you're hunting after, maybe ah even a place that you want to go visit a flea market at. Well, I love, there's a couple called the Marston House. Then they're up in Bill Haven, Maine.
00:43:50
Speaker
in their improvements during the winter and they've always told me about all these think that's probably I should do that. yes I don't have a plan to do that. I think the other thing i'd i'd I'd love to do one more time is go back to Japan and bring some stuff on. and Yeah, big around more, you know,
00:44:31
Speaker
their stuff their country their you know, they're full of stuff. Absolutely. Anyway. Amazing. How about the unobtainable? So something that's just too expensive in a private collection or a museum, it's just complete unobtainable. Well, I think, you know, I've always been able to appreciate those things. It's funny. I go to museums and I have friends sending pictures. They just went through the museum in Santa Fe, the you know wheelwright whatever whatever it is, and showing me things. And I go, I have one better than that. yeah you know There's better than that at the ranch, or there's better than that. So again, I think it's because Mr. Lawrence trained my eye. He told me not to lose my nativity, which is very important. Because I think you get
00:45:29
Speaker
You know, you get onto something just because it's something. Right. You know, which is a bad thing. I think a lot of dealers specialize in something, which is a good thing. You should specialize in something you're good at. You shouldn't just be all over the board and not know what you're doing. So, you know, I totally understand that. And I and i think sometimes that a lot of those things, they've learned too much. Sometimes you've learned too much.
00:45:59
Speaker
and you put a price on something because of what it is, what you know we cut it off which is fair. But in my world, all these years I've had to resell at lots of times. And so I can't really play that game necessarily because most people don't give a shit. right I don't care who wore it. right I don't care what war it went through, right yeah kind ofip yeah make i have smells yeah yeah that you know? The zipper's broken. right All those things are more important than, and I think it's now going to be on a new story, sure because it's now in our store. It's now on your back. it's now
00:46:49
Speaker
You know, and I think knowing what it is, super important. And, um, I don't know if that makes any sense. Yeah, of course. Uh, but as far as, as, as far as obtaining something that I can obtain, obviously if I had more money in a bigger house and I could buy better things, more things it would be more of these drugs. Yeah. You know, I mean, um,
00:47:14
Speaker
my My friend, Shiprock Santa Fe, every time I look at his Instagram, I duel. I think you know you were asking me, I'll let you ask the questions about about the neck of who yeah you look at, right? Yeah, well the well the page I want to rewrite is if you if money was no object.
00:47:36
Speaker
and you could collect anything else in inside in the world, what would it be? And I think you probably said more rugs. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, no. And there's there's certain people that I love what they're doing. And I would I never spend my own money there. Right.
00:47:57
Speaker
John Birch and Wyeth. Amazing. I don't really understand the mid-century so much, and it's not so much a one-of-a-kind, handmade situation. like But it's beautiful stuff. I don't need any of it, and it doesn't necessarily fit into my world mostly. and I don't think any of these chair works in here. There's certain things. Obviously, actual resort, and when I first I saw that for the first time, I lost it. yeah I mean, the guy's amazing. yeah And still, the few things I see that he's doing, amazing. yeah oh And obviously I was talking about my friend's Morrison house. yeah And there's several more, I hate to short leave people out. I think there's people
00:48:56
Speaker
back in the day in London who died several years ago of a cancer, terrible. But all that French work where all that handmade linen stuff, all those, I got so much knowledge from that, from her kind of thing. And I think there's been a lot of people like that through the years. oh So,
00:49:21
Speaker
I think I've also seen those people have the same shows I'm at. Right. Collecting for the museums. You're like, I'm gonna follow you around. Collecting for Sotheby's for the next sale. So, sure we're all in the same place. How about the goat for you? So, who are some people that you look up to? Well, again, um you know i I think I just said it as an actual.
00:49:45
Speaker
Sharon Paul Marston and John Birch. you know Those guys are all amazing dealers and there's so many other dealers.
00:50:06
Speaker
of National. He sets up at Round Top. um That's a show that I never have been to, Round Top. I never felt that there was enough time at my job to say I'm gonna go to Texas for two weeks. yeah i And there was never, that's more of a furniture show. sure yeah And all the furniture that we bought in Brimfield, that was a reason for it If you don't have a reason for it, they don't really know want you to just go to spend money for a reason.
00:50:45
Speaker
But that's another one of those places I would like to just walk through. Walk right through. Yeah. Does it ever cross your mind that, you know, a lot of people look up to you as the goat? Well, it's funny because, you know, that's recently starting to realize. It's coming to your attention. I'm the guy in the room that knows. When I asked, what do you think, how old is it? Well, you're the one that knows. Right. yeah Oh yeah, you're right. You're right, I do know that. Yeah, you're right. ah but And a lot of those guys, like I said, have either retired or passed away. Couldn't have been anywhere close to what I have today without them. But I think that's the problem today is that the knowledge
00:51:36
Speaker
is so easily obtainable on Google or other things that the stories and one of the reasons I wanted to do this to be honest and he got me into it is telling the stories you know it's like you know, the passing from one generation to the next. And so it's only fair. You got passed to me. I want to pass it to the next person. Absolutely. Do you enjoy the hunt or the ownership more? I think, I think I i definitely enjoy the hunt, but I definitely enjoy the hunt while I'm doing it and we more when it's over. yeah I don't, necessarily look forward to it anymore as much as I used to, um but that's just because I'm getting old and I don't want to work, right? But, and I think the ownership of it is wrapping up with one of these blankets on a cold morning and blocking out of the debt, you know? I mean, I think, you know, treating it all like extension of living with it, living with it, yeah you know?
00:52:54
Speaker
So anyway, i think I think showing it off and being around it is all is all fun as well. yeah But I don't have it here for that reason. sure yeah Most importantly, do you feel that you were born with collector's teeth?
Innate Passion for Collecting
00:53:13
Speaker
I mean, I saw that question you asked me. And and i it's it's weird because I don't know, you know, I remember dragging stuff home at my little place in little home in Kansas and putting it in my dad's garage and coming back out six months later and he threw it away. He became a big collector later because of me. oh And that's his chair, by the way. Amazing. And so, yes, I was I was dragging home
00:53:50
Speaker
stuff not knowing what I was driving home. I drove home a stickly sofa, not knowing what the hell it was until years later. I still have a stickly chair that was my grandfather's that I've kept all these years. It's in the basement. No, it's in my office actually in New York, but I've kept it all these years. It's not
00:54:17
Speaker
I shouldn't say. The style of. The style of Stickley, Arch and Crafts, whatever. But again, not knowing. I remember oh when I first got to New York and I would go to a meeting around the floor and my boss Jeff Walker would tell me, oh yeah, that's very deco, we should do deco furniture. I had no idea what he was talking about, but I'd go, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll find it. And then I'd get on the phone when he wasn't around, flip through his Rolodex and call different antique dealers and he had kept a number of us and, hey, you got deco? You got deco? You got deco? I'm coming over. So, I don't know, I'm rambling again,
00:55:00
Speaker
i think I think that whole keeping your naivety and loving it for for because you love it and learning about it is for me that's that's what collecting is all about and most of the stuff that I collected I didn't know I was collecting it.
00:55:24
Speaker
I didn't know what it was. Sure. I just liked it. Well, I think it's safe to say that you were born with the Collector Gene and thank you so much for having us in your home and I'm excited to spend a little bit more time with you off camera and hang out for a little bit. Me too. So really appreciate it, Doug. Thank you. Pleasure. Thank you. Thank you. Cheers.
00:55:43
Speaker
All right, that does it for this episode. Thank you all for listening to Collector's Gene Radio.