Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Phil Toledano - The Conceptual & Creative Mind Behind Mr. Enthusiast
890 Plays7 days ago
Today, I’m thrilled to welcome Phil Toledano, a man whose name has become synonymous with passion, creativity, and, of course, collecting. Known to many as Mr. Enthusiast, Phil is an artist, photographer, and a collector with a taste for the unconventional—his collections spanning watches & cars in a way that reflects his unique perspective on life and creativity. As an artist by trade, Phil has always approached collecting not just as a hobby but as an extension of his creative expression.
Raised between London and Casablanca, his formative years gave him a truly global outlook, which is reflected in the way he curates his eclectic collection of cars and watches. In fact, it was a deeply personal moment—the day after his father passed away—that marked the beginning of his foray into car collecting, purchasing a Ferrari Dino in tribute to a man who, like him, had a profound connection to the world of art.
Phil’s creative journey has been anything but linear. After a career in advertising, he began to take his passion for collecting more seriously, moving from one obsession to the next, always searching for the unique and the unexpected. Phil’s approach to collecting is as much about discovery and reinvention as it is about the items themselves. His own watch brand, Toledano & Chan, has garnered significant attention from collectors, affirming his place not just as a curator of fine things, but as a creator who deeply understands the culture of collecting.
From the art he creates to the rare pieces he seeks, Phil’s approach to life as an enthusiast is truly one-of-a-kind.
So without further ado, Phil Toledano, aka Mr. Enthusiast, for Collectors Gene Radio. Phil's Website - https://mrtoledano.com/ Phil's Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/misterenthusiast?igsh=MTV6Zms2eDJiZG84dQ==
Collectors Gene - collectorsgene.com
Recommended
Transcript
The Beauty of Curiosity
00:00:00
Speaker
There is so much beauty in the world, there is so much there are so many extraordinary things to discover. like The greatest shame is to live a life where you're not poking around in the corners. like Why wouldn't you want to just look at that stuff? What's going on,
Introduction to Collector's Gene Radio
00:00:15
Speaker
everybody? and Welcome to Collector's Gene Radio. This is all about diving into the nuances of collecting and ultimately finding out whether or not our guests have what we like to call the collector's gene.
00:00:38
Speaker
I'm thrilled to welcome Phil Toledano, a man whose name has become synonymous with passion, creativity, and of course, collecting.
Meet Phil Toledano - Artist and Collector
00:00:46
Speaker
Known to many as Mr. Enthusiast, Phil is an artist, photographer, and a collector with a taste for the unconventional, his collection spanning watches and cars in a way that reflects his unique perspective on life and creativity. As an artist by trade, Phil has always approached collecting, not just as a hobby, but as an extension of his creative expression. Raised between London and Casablanca, his formative years gave him a truly global outlook, which is reflected in the way he curates his eclectic collection of cars and watches.
Phil's Journey into Collecting
00:01:12
Speaker
In fact, it was a deeply personal moment the day after his father passed away that marked the beginning of his foray into car collecting by purchasing a Ferrari Dino, in tribute to a man who, like him, had a profound connection to the world of art.
00:01:24
Speaker
Phil's creative journey has been anything but linear. After a career in advertising, he began to take his passion for collecting more seriously, moving from one obsession to the next, always searching for the unique and the unexpected. Phil's approach to collecting is as much about discovery and reinvention as it is about the items themselves.
The Role of Curiosity in Phil's Collecting
00:01:41
Speaker
His own watch brand, Toledano and Chan, has garnered significant attention from collectors, affirming his place not just as a curator of fine things, but as a creator who deeply understands the culture of collecting.
00:01:51
Speaker
From the art he creates to the rare pieces he seeks, Phil's approach to life as an enthusiast is truly one of a kind. So without further ado, Phil Toledo, AKA Mr. Enthusiast, for Collectors Gene Radio.
00:02:06
Speaker
Phil Toledo, AKA Mr. Enthusiast, so great to finally have you on Collectors Gene Radio. Thank you so much for having me, man. It's been a while coming. That's for sure, but I'm happy we made it happen. and you know A lot of folks will know you as Mr. Enthusiasts and some say it's an alter ego, but it truly is who you are. You are an enthusiast and a collector of many things. Art watches cars, you're an artist at trade, ah photographer by trade. Were you a collector of things when you were a kid though?
00:02:37
Speaker
Not really. like actually I remember actually thinking, oh, I should collect stuff. And then I tried to have like a stamp collection and I was like, oh, this is miserably boring. But I'll tell you what I was as a kid, and and that's mirrored the way I collect. is I was always super curious about like everything. I haven't thought about this in the years, actually.
Influences from Phil's Father
00:02:59
Speaker
I used to go on what I call crazes.
00:03:01
Speaker
that I would get really interested in this thing. I'd really learn about it. I'd want to like i don't know get into this world, and then I'd sort of lose interest suddenly and go to the next thing. and That used to happen like so so often for me as a kid. like I'm talking like a 10-year-old. I think maybe now it'll be ADD, but then i i just I was just interested in shit. and Now there's medicine for that. Yeah, exactly. Now I'd probably be less interested in things.
00:03:27
Speaker
um I'm curious to know how growing up in London and and I believe Casablanca influenced your perspective on becoming an artist and and subsequently a collector. Well, like I'm not sure necessarily growing up in those two places influenced me as an artist so much as my father was an artist.
00:03:45
Speaker
So I grew up watching him work. I grew up talking to him
Tribute to His Father - The Ferrari Dino
00:03:50
Speaker
about his art. I grew up going to his shows. And this really influenced me as a father, but I grew up watching him take my ideas seriously. Like he would talk to him about things he was working on and I'd have suggestions or ideas and then maybe a Couple of days lady come back and say, you know, I did this sketch is this kind of what you're talking about and to me as a kid that meant everything that my dad, you know took me seriously and so um That's how I've tried to raise my
Creating 'Days With My Father'
00:04:17
Speaker
own kid. Like I take her seriously, but he was also very curious He was also he made you know, he he worked with sculpture
00:04:26
Speaker
Boils, charcoal, I mean, so many different mediums. He was always interested, and I guess maybe that's what I kind of absorbed from him, is just being interested in everything. Yeah, absolutely. And I can't help but talk about the journal that you did, Days With My Father. I was reading it last night, choking up in bed. My wife's like, why why are your eyes watering? What's wrong? You said they're not crying, you're crying.
Reflections on Legacy and Art
00:04:49
Speaker
Yeah. And, you know, I wish I had done that with my mother before she passed. And knowing that your father always wanted you to be successful and that he was an artist himself,
00:05:02
Speaker
you you know what What do you think he would say about the person that you are today and the success that you've had as being an artist? I mean, look, one of the things you don't think about, or no one really tells you about about the death of your parents is all the things you want them to see about your life, the things you want to eat you want to share with them. youe like you know I would love for my parents who have met my daughter, but I think, I mean,
00:05:25
Speaker
look my I know that my father would have felt nothing but pride to you know see me having a show in France. or like Currently, i'm having a show I'm having shows in France, ah Turkey, and the Netherlands simultaneously. and So for him, you know that would have been an incredible source of pride.
00:05:43
Speaker
So, yeah, I mean, the book you're talking about, Days With My Father, I think that's probably the best thing I ever did. After I made that work, actually, it's funny, because i I always, as a kid, I always wanted to, when my dad used to talk to me about what I wanted to do in life, I always said, oh, I want to make work that changes people's minds or helps people or affects people in some way, shows them something new. And that work did that. And I i didn't mean it for it to do that. But i I guess if I croak tomorrow, I've done one good thing, which is that book.
00:06:12
Speaker
it It is really special and I think even if someone doesn't know you or you know ah understand you know what you've done in terms of your work and your collecting and all that stuff, just reading that, anybody can't help but feel that it's just a special piece of work. Thank you.
00:06:30
Speaker
So the day after your father passed away, you went and bought a special car and you had a career in advertising and, you know, as humorous and outgoing as you are. People should be able to tell from your previous work. So you're also a very sentimental and
Lessons in Collecting and the Joy of a Dino
00:06:47
Speaker
thoughtful person. And I'm curious to know what it was that made you buy that Ferrari Dino that day.
00:06:52
Speaker
Well, like, I mean, you know, the the the great sad and one of the great really irritating things about life is that as you get older, you realize that all cliches are true. And it's really annoying because you spend most of your life going, oh, cliches are so stupid, but then you get older, like, oh, they're all real. So one of the things about my father dying.
00:07:10
Speaker
you know i've been looking at this to forty sixteen oh for ages and it was so much money it was at the time it was you know i mean it was ninety thousand dollars wow which in retrospect looks like peanuts but to me that was the most money i'd ever spent on anything but when my dad died i just had that the cliche reaction well you know what am i waiting for like i've got the money.
00:07:32
Speaker
Somehow I'll make it work out and I kind of I accidentally bought an incredible car because I didn't know the route I just knew I loved that car. I love the shape of it I didn't know there was a European version and the US version. I didn't know there's a GTS version It was just all the right things and it turned out to me I kind of you know, it's in a buffoonish way stumbled onto like the greatest spec Dino I could possibly imagine which is a got European GT original design like the you know before they did all this chairs and flares stuff to it and I bought it that and it was so weird to be doing that the day after my dad died. But in a way, it made perfect sense. like i was just kind of I was honoring the lesson that he had inadvertently taught me in his death, which is, you're not
Driving Vintage Cars in NYC
00:08:15
Speaker
going to be around for long. If you can, you should live. Absolutely. and you know Retail therapy is a real thing.
00:08:24
Speaker
And that was like extreme retail therapy. Yeah. Some people, you know, they go and they buy some flowers or they buy, you know, a pair of the pants or something like that. And some people go and buy Ferrari Denos. Yeah. I mean, well, look in retrospect, I tend not to be a genius, but obviously that was not planned. I had no idea I was going to be a genius at the time. That car in blue is absolutely insane. Yeah. I mean, it was, it was, and I used to keep it down the street from me in a public garage in New York city.
00:08:53
Speaker
And it was just a car cover on it, which is kind of crazy. You would think back a bit about it now, but I would, you know, go down the road, take the cover off. And I drive the car. If I was feeling miserable, I would just drive the Dino around New York and it was genius. It was like being Elvis, man. Cause people, people in New York are just so grateful to see any car. That's not like a, a beat into shit taxi SUV. And then to see this thing in New York must've been like, you know, like seeing,
Phil's Initial Foray into Collecting
00:09:20
Speaker
they're like seeing Elvis. Like it was like a, it was like a miracle sighting. and people just come up to me and talk to me and you know it was the it was the most glorious experience. Now you can't even keep a Prius covered in a public parking garage. Well, I didn't even know if what would the reaction would be. I mean, every now and then I'd go there and there'd be a little note on the windscreen like, would you be interested in selling this car? um But it was it was amazing. I'm a real proponent of driving like vintage cars in New York City because the experiences I've had have always been so wonderful. and They handle potholes just perfectly.
00:09:51
Speaker
<unk> I mean, you know, they've got massive fat tires, so they actually handle them better. And then I became really adept at like developing this sixth sense that like, Oh, there's a massive like Grand Canyon chasm in front of me. I've just bob around it. when When you bought that Dino, is that the real start to your car collecting? No, I well, the first really expensive car I had was a
Phil's Unique Approach to Collecting
00:10:16
Speaker
was a Porsche 964 Porsche C2 that I bought in the mid 90s for 27 grand. um I mean, I'm sure that when I tell people the prices of things, i you know, I paid for things that people weep because cars were just like they weren't the things they are now. I mean, I guess they were and they weren't, but that was the most expensive car I had.
00:10:35
Speaker
And then the dino but then the dino is like okay this is vintage this is and yeah that was the beginning of like you like realizing okay i have some money i can actually buy like amazing things with it. Yeah absolutely so as an artist it's no surprise that you would collect things with the same forever to be different and outgoing it's evident in all your collections.
00:11:00
Speaker
Were you ever tempted to collect more mainstream blue chip stuff, or has it always been something less of interest to you and and more of an interest to kind of go outside the box a little bit? Well, I think that that's just who I am. And I mean, I've mentioned this before, but ah when I worked in advertising, this old boss of mine called me a pathological contrarian. And and when he said that, I suddenly had this revelet I was like, holy shit, that's true. I had no idea that that's who I was, but it was. So even when I bought the Dino, like the thing I loved about it was it wasn't even badges of Ferrari. I mean, when I bought it, it was festooned in Ferrari badges. I took them all off to make it the thing it was. And I loved it because I'd go to you know cars and coffee things and people
00:11:43
Speaker
didn't really know what it was. It was like, yeah, that's not really a real Ferrari. It's a six cylinder. It's not even, you know, like people didn't really, they they didn't really like treat it with much respect. and and but i was I always just think, are you crazy? Look how beautiful this thing is. It doesn't matter what it was bad. Just look at it. But yeah, you're right. that that I guess that I've always been unconsciously or consciously motivated to not try and do the same thing only because I feel like Well, there's a bunch of reasons. One is it requires more imagination to think about who you are and what you want than if you buy things that everyone else has. And two, more practically speaking, is that if you resist the gravitational pull of the norm, often everything is much cheaper.
00:12:27
Speaker
because you know when I was buying a Dino for 90 grand, that was like cheap because no one was interested. Do you know what I mean? so yeah like when i was buying and i' When I buy Pateks from the 70s, I started buying it six or seven years ago or five years ago, whenever it was, because no one cared about the 70s.
00:12:44
Speaker
right It's funny that people were, you know, upset that you de-badged the car and stuff. It's like sometimes you think people want you to wear the matching Ferrari Puma shoes and then you wear them and they ask you why you're wearing those. I would, I mean, yeah, he well deep yeah because the Dino never came with Ferrari badging. Right. So what happened with Dinos is people would, you know, buy them and put Ferrari badges on them to be like, yeah, hey, so look, see, it's a Ferrari. I swear.
00:13:12
Speaker
So, you know, i like your work as a conceptual artist, you know, your tastes and collections have ebbed and flowed and anybody that follows you knows that, you know, there's constant stuff coming in and out and that's what keeps, I think,
Launching Toledano and Chan
00:13:24
Speaker
your collection so interesting. But as an artist, you know, it's important to keep an open mind and always be thinking of the next thing and how to create it. How important is it for you to turn over your collections and keep exploring new things?
00:13:39
Speaker
Well, actually, it's interesting, man, because I never thought about it there is because my job as an artist is to be curious. That's that's the kind of job description I've always felt is to always be interested in new technologies, new developments, whatever, like everything around you, like everything is of interest. And that's how I feel about collecting everything is of interest. So with watches in particular, I guess that there are some there are things now I've kind of focused in on to kind of main areas, like this kind of 70s Patek stuff, and then like these 40s predatonic chronographs and stuff. But then there's other stuff that I'm interested in. So it's important to to be so I don't shuffle. I mean, I think people think I'm always I'm always I am usually always selling something is I'm necessarily bored of it. But because there's something else that's caught my eye. And I'm not one of those people has like endless funds to fund everything. I've i've got to sell stuff to buy the new stuff.
00:14:32
Speaker
So yeah I mean there's always things i'm I'm selling I guess but there's always things that will at least will stay in the collection for I mean the 70s stuff and the and the Rolex stuff has kind of stayed more or less static. I kind of trim it a little bit here and there but I like those two directions a lot.
00:14:49
Speaker
And you've had the chance to do a few of your own watches, first your collaboration with Kingnerd, and most recently the launch of your new brand, Toledano and Chan. You've received so much great feedback and recognition, and rightfully so. Thank you, and and and look, I've said it endlessly, but it's both overwhelming and deeply humbling and flattering and all of those things to think that people are as enthused about that idea as Alfred and I were when we started thinking about it.
00:15:18
Speaker
Well, and I'm curious to know, you know, as a collector yourself, what's been the most rewarding aspects of launching your own brand for other collectors to be a part of? Well, I guess what I just said really is, is that the idea, like when you make art, you're making it for yourself. And that was the same experience making this watch. When we designed this watch, we would design it for ourselves. And so to, and just so have this, I guess have this realization that other people share the lunacy is a joy.
00:15:47
Speaker
Because you don't know, like when you make something, you have to be kind of delusional. but like you have to make this but like We made this thing, and we would and we were kind of delusional to a certain degree, because when we made the watch, when we were making the watch, when we thought of the watch, the watch landscape was so different. right like Four or five years ago, it was Rolex steel sport watches.
00:16:07
Speaker
And the idea of like my just wasn't really on the horizon so we would kind of just we were just sort of crazy people. thinking yeah We'll make this thing that we love and maybe other people will like it too but there was no like real basis for that that assumption. Well and your timing was insane because. As you're getting ready to launch this and you start making announcements about it.
00:16:28
Speaker
the world kind of took by storm all these watches that are kind of in the same realm that that are vintage. You know, you talk about the Midas and you talk about, uh, you know, all these integrated bracelet seventies Patek's and the world just consumed it. And then you launch your watch and it's like, how perfect is that? I know it's crazy, man. Then two weeks later, AP launches the re the reissue of the master, whatever it was called. and All of a sudden we're like in conversation with AP, which is ridiculous. Cause we're nobody.
00:16:56
Speaker
And then you know people are saying in the airlines, you go oh I can't believe they copied you, which is of course also ridiculous because it's not like people would just turn out and watch in two weeks. but right yeah But the whole thing was but amazing. man like If we launched that watch two weeks later after AP, everyone would have said we had copied AP. Well, I think it's all a testament to to you. I mean, you've you've built this audience and you've built this platform and everybody is so engaged with you.
00:17:22
Speaker
You know, when you had, uh, your, your clothing brand items consistently sold out and now your watches are selling out. I mean, what, what's it been like to create a brand that is so well received by other collectors? I mean, you know, you have people that follow you and you have people that are constantly commenting on your stuff. And so you know, people are interested, but to put something out for people to buy is just, you know, a whole nother ball game. Well,
00:17:48
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, it it could have gone horribly wrong and it would have been ah publicly. like i mean Look, Alfred and I talked about that and and you know like the the possibility for like massive public shame was high. I mean, it's funny because we were going to go live at 9 a.m. and then at 5 to 9, it's sort of like um like you know when you're a kid and you have a you're going to have a birthday party and you have like all the balloons and the cake and everything, but you don't know if anyone's going to show up.
00:18:16
Speaker
Really, like you have this like fear like, what if like only three people come? Or at least that was my fear. so so you know ah Five to nine, I was like, fuck it. We're just going to launch the site we're gonna and I'm just going to see if anyone's at the door like waiting to come into the party. I love it. and and They all did, and and plus some. Yeah, it was amazing, man.
Influence of Art in Phil's Collecting
00:18:37
Speaker
I started seeing the sales come in, I called Alfred, and we were just like laughing and shouting over the phone. and It was an incredible moment for us. It's amazing.
00:18:46
Speaker
I want to talk about art and photography for a bit because it's such a subjective place to live. You know, people either love your work or they don't. And that's just a general thing when it comes to art and and photography. And when it comes to watches and cars, you've been known to be a tastemaker. You, you have followed your gut and your interests and a lot of people have followed along rightfully so. I mean, you've single-handedly put certain watches and styles on the map as well as cars.
00:19:15
Speaker
Well, I mean, that's really, i went I mean, I have to say, man, I find that, like I know, look, I know that I have ah i have like a lovely relationship with people who follow me. And occasionally I'll get an email from some guy saying, oh, I bought this Giza watch. Cause you know, like I saw it on, you saw stuff like this on your feed. It's lovely, but I find it hard to believe that I have the influence but you're claiming I have, which is, if if that's true, that's deeply flattering. Well, I think, you know,
00:19:44
Speaker
It's all relative to an extent, right? I think people see that you are interested in these things and it gives them the idea of, okay, maybe I could wear that too, or maybe I could be interested in that, or maybe I should give that the time of day. You know what I mean? It's less of Phil bought this, so I'm going to buy it. It's more of, I'll give this a chance because.
00:20:01
Speaker
Well, look, and that's lovely, man, because what that it means is I've just, I mean, ah I've always sort of considered myself a bit of an evangelist. Like if I like stuff, I always want everyone I know to to like at least look at the thing I like or consider the thing I like. I don't know what it is about me, but I'm always like, you know, it's just a thing for me. Like, oh, I found this watch. I've got to show it to people. Go look how cool this is. Have you ever seen this kind of thing before? You know, like I love doing that. It gives me real pleasure to introduce people to stuff that they haven't thought about.
00:20:29
Speaker
Well, how do you translate that into your work as an artist? Because I feel like they kind of play in the same space a little bit. I don't know. Actually, man, that's a good question. I'm i'm not sure. Like in some ways it's the same. It's the same methodology. Like when I make work, you know. um
00:20:47
Speaker
i'll just um I'll make something that is interesting to me that I think is really important and ah and and I'll secretly hope that like people will also be interested in it. I've done projects that I think, wow, this is so fascinating. how can it yeah This is going to make me famous and then no one's interested at all. I mean, that happened. Yeah. I mean, you did a really interesting project with with the New York Times and and you worked with prosthetics and and all that sort of stuff. What was the what was the impetus behind that?
00:21:17
Speaker
Well, it ended up being a New York Times documentary. um But the genesis of that project is is is basically this idea that but my parents started quite suddenly, and I became really fascinated with this idea of like how your life can change so radically, like a phone call, or change your entire life. And you don't even know that those things are wrapped right around the corner. And I became really obsessed with this idea of like what other kind of sharp turns does life have in store for me?
00:21:46
Speaker
So I thought I'd do a project where I'd envision all the worst possible things that would happen to me in my future, which is kind crazy. So how do you research the future? Well, you know, I spoke to fortune tellers, tarot card readers, you know, all these kind of people, numer numerologists.
00:22:00
Speaker
And then based on their predictions, I worked with prosthetics expert to become all these future versions of myself and act out these terrible possible future scenarios, which is, you know, when you think about it, when I hear myself explain it, it sounds pretty crazy, which it when my wife just said there, you know, can't you just couldn't you just see a shrink like a normal person did this for three years, like living these terrible scenarios and and and all this stuff.
Curiosity in Life and Collecting
00:22:27
Speaker
um And it became a new york times documentary film it was impressive. I mean I think in its lunacy Well, but that's the best part about it. And I think It's actually a testament to the way that you collect things, right? You you get these scenarios in your head and you think of all the possibilities and I think that that's probably what what's made you such a great collector is having that open mind you know that we mentioned earlier and being able to just go for something and and put yourself in it, and if it doesn't work out for you, then you move on to the next thing. But you you have this ability to just try things, you know? That's interesting, yeah. you Well, look, I mean, I feel like curiosity is just the greatest gift because there is, and this is gonna sound trite, but there is so much beauty in the world. There is so much there are so many extraordinary things to discover.
00:23:20
Speaker
like The greatest shame is to live a life where you're not poking around in the corners. like Why wouldn't you want to just look at that stuff? And if you make a mistake, and if you're lucky enough to afford to be able to make mistakes as I am, then that's okay. There's so much extraordinary stuff just around. There's just been forgotten about. yeah And also, there's there's this weird paradox, because at the same time, particularly in the context of collecting, say, watches, there is a tremendous gravitational pull.
00:23:48
Speaker
right that And I'm subject to that too, that e everyone wants, because you see like submariners or Daytonas, they cut that gravitational pull sucks you in and all of a sudden that's what you're looking at and that's only what you're looking at. And you forget like these other zillion kinds of things that happened in the 20s or the 40s or the 80s or whenever it happened to be, because the gravitational pull is so strong it crushes the light of everything else that you might want to look at.
Art, Watches, and Cars: Phil's Views
00:24:14
Speaker
When it comes to collecting art, do you have the same interest in what you create in?
00:24:19
Speaker
I actually don't collect art at all. Well, you do have a couple things like that I would consider art like that moon suit, which is insane, by the way. The spacesuit. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, look, that was a dream of mine from when I was a kid. Like when I was a kid, I wanted to be an astronaut and I dreamt and I was like 11 or 12. I wrote to NASA saying, Hey, can you, can I buy a spacesuit from you? Cause I just put it in the Oddly enough, they don't want to sell me one. But then in the 90s, when I was working in advertising, I used to say, if this was before Google, I would Yahoo search spacesuit for sale. And this is this is kind of crazy, but this is during the collapse of the Soviet Union. So I came across some guy in Poland who clearly had access to like some some space museum in Russia that was selling everything.
00:25:07
Speaker
So I kind of was just, I started talking to this guy and buying this space suit from Russia, a cosmonaut suit. Amazing. I mean, it's funny, I guess when I, more than I'm, I'm in some ways.
00:25:18
Speaker
Like I just bought this 16th century chaffron, which is an armored horse, it's horse armor for the horse face. ah So to me that's art. Or like I've been doing this thing where I've i've been collecting 16th century portraits that are $2,000 or less at auction. So you can make these kind of weird collections of stuff.
00:25:41
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, it's all art. I mean, you know, I think at the end of the day, cars and watches and, you know, a spacesuit or horse armor or portraits, it's all art in one way or another. And I think you can categorize them generally that way.
00:25:56
Speaker
When it comes to collecting cars and watches, you know, in my opinion, it's easy to kind of collect across multiple different genres, right? You have dressy petex, you have, you know, vintage Rolex sport watches, and you can kind of make a collection and make it really cohesive. And you're not necessarily, you don't consider yourself an art collector or photography collector, but how do you think people collect art and photography in relation to the way that people would collect cars? I mean, do people collect in a really narrow,
00:26:26
Speaker
you know, tight-knit era and and genre, or are people really widespread with the art that they collect? Well, it's hard for me to talk about other people's collecting habits around, but I think that, you know, like i a friend of mine collects only group portraits from like the 50s. I mean, the thing about collecting in any and any genre or space is that you can become incredibly specific.
00:26:52
Speaker
youre like only military watches from the 80s or whatever it happens to be. So yeah, I mean, the collecting art is exactly the same as collecting castle watches. It depends if you want to be eclectic or you want to be specific. Watches, I find it hard to like have a lot of random stuff. right like It makes me happy to sort of look at what I've collected and see this cohesion there.
00:27:14
Speaker
So you become a re recurring character on Mike Duvos' page and you've gotten to see a lot of watches in person from other characters that he unlocks. Yeah. Is there anything that you've seen that you were surprised to become interested in after seeing it in person?
00:27:29
Speaker
I'll tell you what's interesting about collecting watches, man, is that I find, and actually in general, is that I find there are things that I've rejected for years. Like, for instance, in watches, there are Gerald Gento watches. I just looked at those for years and were like, that's just too much. It's too just too crazy. And then suddenly this thing happens and all and then i I look at it One day, like last week it could be too much and terrible, and I look at it you know Tuesday, the that the following Tuesday, I look at it and go, oh, this is amazing. How is it that I didn't see this as amazing before? and I'm so curious that to know what that what is the chemical reaction that happened within me to make me think this thing isn't genius now, whereas before it wasn't.
00:28:11
Speaker
And part of it, I think, is a repetition. like i think with Often with with watches or cars or whatever it is, you look at things and you're not used to that. Your brain has ah has acclimatized itself. it's kind of It's created the neural pathways to sort of acclimatize itself to this specific kind of design. so if you like Say you've been looking at Rolex subs for five years, your brain likes that design, it's used to that design, so when you see a girogenta, you go, whoa, that's crazy and too much.
00:28:38
Speaker
But if you keep seeing agenda on a regular basis, your brain will begin to mold and adapt and and conform to this new idea, this new aesthetic design, and eventually it will begin to see what's genius about that. That could be an interesting art project for you.
00:28:53
Speaker
Well, yeah I don't know how that would be coming up, but it is interesting. I'm interested how, like, things I were previously thought, like, you know, 70s integrated bracelet watches were always just, I just looked at them and I was like, ah, they're just kind of cheesy, whatever. And then the more I looked at them and I thought, oh, hang on, these things are amazing. Well, I think you could, you could do it with other people, right? You could put certain things in front of other people and things that are maybe really polarizing that you wouldn't expect people to like, and then revisit with them later on and say, how do you feel about this now?
00:29:23
Speaker
I think that's actually happening now with what we what what I guess is now called Giza watches. I've been posting them, but because Nouveau in particular has been posting them, he has a far greater reach than me. All of a sudden, a lot of people are seeing these kind of integrated bracelet blingy watches in the 70s and 80s, and because they're seeing them more, they're liking
Influence of Environment and Travels
00:29:41
Speaker
them more. Right. Yeah, I guess i guess ah it's a current study that's that's happening without us knowing about it.
00:29:49
Speaker
What's your current area of interest in cars? Are we at a 91 Bentley Turbo R yet, or are we still on the Group B stuff? Actually, it's funny you say that because I spent like all of yesterday, well, not all of yesterday, but yesterday I was like rooting around in the depths of YouTube, but like, Bentley Arnages and, you know, Bentley Continental T, which I've been sort of obsessed with for years, like, all of a sudden, I guess I've had The cause of the last ten or fifteen years will be like really hardcore group be homologation rally cars like they just they just beat you census when you drive miss super loud super noisy super hot like you know just no way see like they just it's just like a it's it's a bludgeoning and as i think i guess i just sort of tipped over to geezer with geezerville and now i just keep thinking how nice would it be to drive around the college entirely silent you just kind of drifting around in this luxo barge.
00:30:40
Speaker
I love those 90s Bentley's, I think they're incredible. Yeah, they're amazing, man. They're really amazing. and You can get them in the like the yeah that like Azure light blue ah color with like over the the really cognac interior, it's incredible. Yeah, and you've got the full like drinks cabinet in interior with all the mahogany and bollocks. I would like to own one of those cars at some point just to kind of experience what it's like to be in something so luxurious. Yeah.
00:31:10
Speaker
You mentioned in an article with a collected man that living in Chinatown in Manhattan is is important to you for the culture. And in terms of the collector and artists that you are today, do you still feel that way? And how important is it for you to travel to places with culture?
00:31:28
Speaker
Well, I prefer to go to places without culture, if possible. I mean, look, I guess I moved down to Chinatown in the late 90s because I kind of liked the fact that it was a real neighborhood. like it wasn't like I used to live in the East Village and everyone kind of looked like me and everyone was sort of doing the same things. When I moved down to Chinatown, it was just sort of families and not like white kids doing little things. it was i know like It just seemed like a real place. So I still, I mean, although now where I live has become like this, this is that is the nexus of of hipsterism. I mean, it's crazy. Like I'm basically the old geezer of the neighborhood and everyone else is walking around like wearing dresses and eye patches and peg legs and whatever. And I, you know, it must look at me like I'm just this old guy. But patches and peg legs.
00:32:17
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, it's amazing. and I love it. I love that it's so like it's just like everything is everything is fine now, which is kind of genius. Yeah. But yeah, traveling is everything, man, because it just you get so used to ways of thinking and you forget that everyone else does things differently. And it's glorious to be reminded of that on a regular basis. Well, it seems like most of the shows that you do for your art and all that stuff are overseas. Is that right?
00:32:44
Speaker
Yeah. it's Well, it's safe to say I'm i'm more appreciated in Europe than I am in the States for my art. I mean, it's interesting. I wonder about that. like I don't know if it's the... I don't know if people are more audacious there.
Quick-fire Questions on Collecting
00:32:58
Speaker
I mean, look, I would like to tell myself that to make myself feel better about that fact. I don't know what the reason is for that.
00:33:04
Speaker
I love it. Well, Phil, let's wrap it up with the collectors. Do you run down, you know, the Jill here, you can answer these questions based on any of the things that you collect, whether it's spacesuits and horse armor or cars and and watches sound good. um it What's the one that got away? Um, I had bought my Dino and then someone said to me, do you want to buy a Ferrari two seven five, uh, long wheelbase and it's $650, $250,000. And I was like, that is crazy.
00:33:34
Speaker
That's just, that's crazy amounts of money. And then of course they're like two million over three million. And the same thing happened with the 959. Someone offered me a 959 for 300 grand. Wow. And I was like, no, it's, I don't, it's red. Actually I turned it down because it was red. Oh geez. At the time I just, look, I did see, it was a different time. I didn't have that kind of, I didn't have $675,000, but it just seemed like too much money anyway.
00:34:00
Speaker
Makes sense. The on deck circle. So what's next for you in collecting maybe something you're hunting after? I honestly don't know, man. I really don't know. I mean, that's what I find actually is the joy. That's kind of the joy and and and deep rage about watch collecting is that at least in cars, I feel like I kind of know almost everything that's out there. I've either owned it or I've been lucky enough to own it, or I can't afford it, or I just know it exists and it does interest me. But with watches, there's so much shit that you just like, Oh,
00:34:28
Speaker
Here's a whole other bloody like air thing of watches, like style watch I never knew existed. Now I've got to start buying these things. Right. So I don't know what it is, but I'm sure I'll be, you know, dazzled tomorrow. How about the unobtainable? So this is one that's too expensive in a museum, private collection, just complete unobtanium. If it's going to be a car, it'd be a Ferrari 250 LM. Yeah. Just because that thing's just amazing. And also it's kind of so quirky in the design.
00:34:58
Speaker
Yeah, maybe one of those. I love it. The page one rewrites, so if you could collect anything else and money was no object, what would it be? I guess it would be art. Like, I'd buy, like, I don't know, Jeff Koons, or I'd buy, like, I really love a 16th century painting. I'd buy that kind of stuff. Like, I just find that really beautiful. um There's something about that period of history that's amazing to me.
00:35:26
Speaker
How about the goat? Who do you look up to in the collecting world, or who do you think is just a great collector? I mean, honestly, the collectors I respect the most are the people with the most imagination, and the people who just, like, obviously, look, I'm sure everyone says this, but Ronnie um Mahavadi, I think is how you say his last name, he's obviously got, like, really interesting taste. And that also weirdly goes for for dealers. Like, I think, like, my friend,
00:35:55
Speaker
I just based on it. I just had it. Watch Brothers in London, for instance. That guy, I've just completely had a seen our moment and forgotten what is, and we just, we talk all the time. Ben, right? Ben, thank you. Jesus, that is what happens when you have jet lag and you don't sleep. And then that's really remarkable taste. and and i And I respect people like that because I feel like he not only anticipates the market, but he creates it too by just by showing you things that are amazing.
00:36:21
Speaker
Yeah, he certainly put Vacheron perpetual calendars on the map for sure. Yeah, totally. Great stuff over there. Yeah. The hunt or the ownership? Which one do you enjoy more? That's a good question, man. Look, the hunt is so exhilarating and so frustrating because you know you hunt for ages and you find one and then, oh, look, it's been relumed or whatever happens to be. But ah the hunt's really exciting because the hunt involves two things, curiosity and knowledge. But the own owning is...
00:36:52
Speaker
I mean, it's pretty glorious to like look in your watchbox and go, okay, there's that thing that I really wanted. Right. Both are fun. Yeah. Most importantly, do you feel that you were born with the collector's gene? Well, I guess I am now, but it didn't manifest itself. I think, okay, I say yes because to me, collecting is curiosity. And so I've always been curious. So yes.
00:37:18
Speaker
I love it. Phil, thank you so much for coming on Collectors Gene Radio today. Always great to catch up with you. And I am ah so looking forward to seeing what you do with Toledano and Chan and the next cars that come in and all sorts of great stuff that you have going on. Thank you so much for having me, man. It's been a real pleasure. Anytime, cheers.
00:37:38
Speaker
All right, that does it for this episode. Thank you all for listening to Collectors Gene Radio.