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Kevin O'Leary aka Mr. Wonderful
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Kevin O’Leary aka Mr. Wonderful is my guest today. The Shark Tank star and collector truly needs no introduction. He’s become a collector extraordinaire getting the stamp of approval from envy-worthy brands and artisans ranging from Simon Brette and FP Journe, to Fender & Montblanc. We talk about the importance of relationship building, the nuances between all the things he collects, and how brands should be looking at their future customer base. He’s a story teller, investor in many ways other than the conventional, and always there to tell you like it is, in true Mr. Wonderful fashion. And to top it all off, we did it inside the walls of a place my Grandfather built. So without further adieu, this is Kevin O’Leary, aka Mr. Wonderful, for Collectors Gene Radio.
YouTube Video - https://youtu.be/6vJPc2qOkHw
CollectorsGene.com - https://collectorsgene.com/
Cameron's Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/cameronrosssteiner/?hl=en
Collectors Gene YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC7fZDvQUNBCunvCe_ieXeYA
Kevin O'Leary's TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@kevinolearytv?lang=en
Kevin O'Leary's Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/kevinolearytv/
Kevin O'Leary's YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/KevinOLeary
Manhattan Motorcars - https://www.manhattanmotorcars.com/
Edited by Rego - https://www.instagram.com/r.ego?igsh=bzR6eWVhZGhpcGQz
Filmed by Enock Brothers - https://www.aenock.com/
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Transcript
Introduction and Early Influences
00:00:00
Speaker
My stepdad would take me out to the horological museums in Geneva, and there was a particular dealer still there called Les Ambassadors. And we would go there on Saturdays together, and he would walk me through all the brands. I was fascinated by it. Of course, I couldn't afford any of them. sure And he really instilled in me, you can't afford to buy any of this unless you've earned it.
00:00:23
Speaker
You can't borrow money to buy a watch. It has to be part of your life. It has to be some amazing event that's occurred. You graduate, you get married, you have a child, whatever it is. That's what was ingrained in me, and that was the beginning of the way I thought about collecting. What's going on, everybody? And welcome to Collector's Gene Radio. This is all about diving into the nuances of collecting and ultimately finding out whether or not our guests have what we like to call the collector's gene.
00:00:50
Speaker
If you have the time, please subscribe and leave a review. It truly helps. Thanks a bunch for listening, and please enjoy today's guest on Collector's Gene Radio.
Kevin O'Leary: The Collector's Mindset
00:01:01
Speaker
Kevin O'Leary, AKA Mr. Wonderful, is my guest today. The Shark Tank star and collector truly needs no introduction. He's become a collector extraordinaire, getting the stamp of approval from envy-worthy brands and artisans ranging from Simone Brett and F. P. Jorn to Fender and Mont Blanc.
00:01:17
Speaker
We talk about the importance of relationship building, the nuances between all the things he collects, and how brands should be looking at their future customer base. so He's a storyteller, investor in many ways other than the conventional, and always there to tell you like it is in true Mr. Wonderful fashion. And to top it all off, we did it inside the walls of a place my grandfather built. So without further ado, this is Kevin O'Leary, AKA Mr. Wonderful, for Collectors Gene Radio.
Significance of Place and Memory
00:01:48
Speaker
Kevin O'Leary, a.k.a. Mr. Wonderful. Welcome to Collector's Dream Radio. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. My pleasure. Here in New York City in this spectacular space. Yeah, we're in the Bugatti showroom at Manhattan Motorcar. It's a really special place. Actually, a special place for me because this whole business actually started with my grandfather back in the day. Really? And so really... Well, it's special for me. I love Porsche. And then you walk down as Lamborghini and there's Bugatti. I mean, stop the madness. Obviously, your family has a great relationship with these incredible makers. Yes, for sure. And I think it's a testament to all the things that we're going to talk about today's relationships and having those relationships with incredible, you know, makers of things. That I agree with. I think a lot of people don't understand how important that is, particularly in watchmaking.
00:02:29
Speaker
100% watches, pens, vintage guitars. yeah We're going to talk about it
First Purchases and Collecting Philosophy
00:02:33
Speaker
all today. But I'd kind of like to take a step back and go from day one because you grew up and you traveled a lot and you lived in a lot of different places. So I'd love to know the things that you saw growing up that stuck with you in relation to the collector that you are today.
00:02:46
Speaker
Yeah, i yeah my my original my biological father died when he was 37, so I was very young, and my mother remarried ah to a ILO expert, based in the United Nations, and he moved to Geneva. So my family was in Geneva, and my my stepdad would take me out to the horological museums in Geneva, and there was a particular dealer, still there, called Les Ambassadors.
00:03:10
Speaker
which was legendary right on the water on Lake Le Mans, Lake Geneva. And we would go there on Saturdays together and he would walk me through all the brands. I was fascinated by it. you know Rolex, Omega, Patek, and all the other independent Swiss and European brands. So, of course, I couldn't afford any of them. And he really instilled in me, you can't afford to buy any of this unless you've earned it.
00:03:35
Speaker
You can't borrow money to buy a watch. It has to be part of your life. It has to be some amazing event that's occurred. You graduate, you get married, you have a child, whatever it is. That's what was ingrained in me, and that was the beginning of the way I thought about collecting. Sure. And when you were a kid, did you collect anything? I mean, comic books or anything like that? I did. Baseball cards and comic books. I wish I'd kept them. I know, right? They're just sick about it now, particularly the cards. I mean, that's so nuts.
00:04:02
Speaker
but My first piece, my first watch was around ah my first business deal, and it was a Cartier. um A brand that has been stuck with me my whole life. I'm wearing my wedding ring's Cartier. It's one of those brands that's it's it's emotionally attached to me and in many, many ways, but I also love the style of it. sure and Now, I think in this year's you know show, Watches and Wonders in Geneva,
00:04:29
Speaker
They had the best of show. I mean, they were just crazy this year. Yeah. And so out of all the things that you collect, pens, vintage guitars and watches, which of those came first in terms of your interests? I mean, did it come at a time when you were selling your business? Did it come at a time when your business was just doing great? It was watches first and it was always about an event. It was when I would sell a deal or I'd get financed or something.
00:04:56
Speaker
um it it It just I wanted to mark time, sure, so to speak. But I also put inscriptions on a lot of my
Community and Networking in Collecting
00:05:05
Speaker
watches. I remember I was running ah ah with a partnership called O'Leary Funds. It was a mutual phone business and we we got our first half a billion. I bought all the managers. um Roasters that is a Cartier and we we scripted on it half a billion milestone and those watches are priceless to me now Yeah, I mean that watch means so much to me and I've gone on to other things but it was a moment in time and I do often um And I should disclose to you because this is coming up in a few weeks ah To give you an example of
00:05:36
Speaker
I think about 16 years of Shark Tank, which has become a passport for me. It's become a, I can go to any country on earth and and people know who I am. They know Shark Tank. It's on 42 countries. I'm the most hated one in Austria. Who knew that? But I was talking here in New York.
00:05:55
Speaker
with Adam, the CEO of Tudor. And he was showing me some of the remarkable materials that they were making ah Black Bay's with. And silver was one thing. Silver is amazing. The bronze, they just did the gold one. Yeah. The silver really hit me because I i was thinking about anniversaries and silver. And I said to him, is there any way you would consider making me a piece unique, a Shark Tank Silver. You know, with the Shark Tank logo on the dial and scripted with the name of every person that was there the day it was the pilot was shot that are so its that that are still working on the show today.
Legacy and Emotional Value of Collections
00:06:34
Speaker
He said, we love that idea. Let me go back to Geneva and talk to them. It took two years to organize just the logo release. No one's ever done it.
00:06:42
Speaker
I'm presenting those watches to everybody. I sponsored the project and I'm proud of it. um September 16th in Los Angeles and Adam's flying out. Amazing. We're going to have a dinner. These watches are priceless. Amazing. I mean, it's, imagine, and it celebrates, you know, our family of 16 years. But that's another example, Cameron, about what?
00:07:02
Speaker
It is about a watch, sure. Yeah, no. I mean, at the end of the day, the gifting aspect or the passing down aspect for future generations and all that is really what any collecting hobby is all about. It's for future generations. It's for your grandkids to say, my grandfather wore this, and then they give it to their kids and grandkids one day. And it keeps going down, you know, in that sense. and For you, I know when you collect, especially watches, it's all about the dial, on the same way. yeah If the dial doesn't make sense. I've noticed in just the pieces you brought, right how unique its dial is. I'm really impressed. Yeah, if the dial doesn't make sense, it's not for me, yeah right? Because then you move on to the other things, then the case has to make sense. and yeah
00:07:38
Speaker
At the end of the day, it just tells off. I love your move into vintage. That is so cool. I started in vintage. You know, my grandfather that built this place and my other grandfather, they had vintage stuff. And I always admired them wearing a small vintage Cartier tank or a small Patek Calatrava with a denim shirt or with a suit. Very cool. Very cool. And now smoking hot. Smoking hot. I mean, it's come full of full cycle. Full cycle. But I've been interested in that since day one. That's where I started. I didn't move there because That's where the trend
Style, Accessories, and Branding
00:08:07
Speaker
went. i' I started there. And so I'm an old soul. Yeah. And so like you, I go for dial first when it comes to watches. But when it comes to things like pens and guitars, what's your mode there when you go to make an acquisition? So the pen thing happened to me um through the unique journey of wardrobe on Shark Tank. That's where the red bands came from. A woman named Artemis took over early on and she said, listen, Kevin,
00:08:31
Speaker
You have a look now. You wear that black suit. i'm I'm wearing it right now. The black suit, the black tie, the the red poof. And I came in, and I think in year four with a blue band on it, she said.
00:08:42
Speaker
That's not a red band. Absolutely not. And I said, no, it's a blue band. She said, it's for me. It's got to be continuity. It's got to have a continuous thing with you. You're red bands from now on. If you're going to be on Shark Tank, you're wearing a watch, got a red band on it. I said, what does this occur? She said, no, it's not. It's continuity. And so I've been working with her year with her now for over a decade.
00:09:02
Speaker
And the makers know about this, a Pantone 485, the whole thing. And then I got into, in the last couple of years, two watches. Yeah. And so now I'm wearing two watches on Shark Tank. They both have red bands. They match. And and we have so much fun with the dials, matching the dials up. So, you know, it's kind of part of the journey and and just And I was talking to the guys at Rubberby who said, you have personally increased the sales of red bands around the world like 30%. I'm short. Which I'm very proud of. I'm short. Because men want style. They want options. Absolutely. they want If you're wearing jeans, maybe you want this, maybe you want that. If you're not, you know sort of ah it's kind of like you're a fashionable guy, right? You care what you're wearing. I do. I sure do. So you know you give it you can care. Yeah.
00:09:50
Speaker
And so when it comes to adding a pen, does the pen have to be read now or does the pen have to catch your eye? It does. And so what happened was when I started showing up with pens, Artemis said, nah, you're breaking the vibe. Go back to Mont Blanc or go back to whoever, you know. Sure.
00:10:09
Speaker
and tell them it's got to be red. And so we started curating red pens long before they were even contemplated, particularly with Mont Blanc, who have really gone, they have they are they are the pen maker now. one hundred percent and And so I have many pieces that that matt so So you got the red pen, now they even make a red ink. yeah So I'm writing down deals in red nips, and then Ferrari did a pen, it had a red thing on it. So we got the whole red thing going there. And I i began to realize the the way the cameraman shoot it,
00:10:46
Speaker
um You got 20 cameras on the set of Shark Tank. I walk in and Artemis goes through what we're doing and what we're wearing of all the continuity, all the notes. And then I talked to my key camera guy. He says, what are we dealing with today? I said, well, I've got, you know, Richard Mille on the left, and I think I'm going to do Rolex on the right. And I've got this monster, Montblanc. He says, good. Just want to know what we got. And then they they catch it. yeah And they make it part of that whole thing that Shark Tank has become. And how about vintage guitars? Because you don't really get those things so much there. Those are tough. Harder to come by. Harder to come by. I think of different relationships I have. I was a shareholder defender sure for years. Based in Arizona?
00:11:29
Speaker
Yes, and I and but they make a that in California they have a shark them shop. I have two shark tank fenders unique ah pieces 001002 amazing signed by all the sharks You know just I don't know what I'm gonna do with them. I keep getting called up for auctions and stuff And then I've got a Mr. Wonderful SG from Gibson. The Gibson people sha in Nashville made that. And then I've bought, you know, tellies and I've got a lot of guitars. Yeah. And my wife's pissed at me because they take up a lot of space. They have to be maintained with humidity. Absolutely. But when I have friends over, as I will this weekend up at our lake house, so I've got 20 axes there. Yeah. Incredible acoustics. Hus and Dalton. I mean, all of these, every guitar has its own personality.
00:12:15
Speaker
And I tell people, don't mail order a guitar, right? Sit down and
Challenges and Integrity in Collecting
00:12:19
Speaker
play it. Right, because not every Martin is going to sound the same. No, every Martin's different. Every Martin has different personality. and And the way the keyboard feels, even if you're just starting out, it's got to feel right. Absolutely. And they're not cheap anymore. They're not cheap at all. Something that's really important with collecting anything is the community. And it's no secret that the watch community is pretty much ready to welcome anybody with open arms. Yeah.
00:12:45
Speaker
What's the pen and guitar community like? i mean is it well i but you know You're a very astute guy to bring that word up. Let's go back to watch for a sec. Sure. Because the watch community can be very cruel. Let's talk about that for a second. i mean This is a really interesting topic. and I think you know what i'm and where I'm going with this. let's say Let me give you my biggest nightmare now that I'm a collector.
00:13:10
Speaker
phone calls from very important people in my life that I do business with that have decided they want an FP Jorn and they want a Patek Philippe and they want what they want and I'm going to get it for them tomorrow. Yeah.
00:13:24
Speaker
and There was a time when I could do that, but it's not now anymore. It doesn't exist. It doesn't exist. And so it's it's very painful to have to go through and explain to them, you're not a collector, right? And you have to earn your way into the community. You've got to show yourself, show your colors that you care about horology, that you're into it for whatever reason you're into it for, and be respected in the community. For sure. I think about the Journe society. I mean,
00:13:56
Speaker
just to get a Joury. The point is, the other Journe collectors like me want to know you're not a flipper, right because you can make 4,000% on a Journe. But here's the thing you gotta understand. If I were to take like that Journe, that one-of-a-kind vertical one with a red cave that I made for me specifically, I've been already offered a fortune for that. I'm sure it's in the middle of a kind.
00:14:26
Speaker
If I ever sold that, not only would I be banned for life within Jorn, it would get out to the other watchmakers. Yeah, they wouldn't want you doing the same thing with their brand. And so I explained this to people because I ran it into this guy. um I was picking up a meteorite Rolex. It's a true story. I won't mention his name or the dealer because I don't want to embarrass the shore.
00:14:47
Speaker
and so He called me about it it was gold i was interested in yellow gold i'm moving into yellow gold a lot i didn't have a meteorite daytona beautiful piece. And he's he's back at the store with his father talking about. You know whatever cuz i showed up and i was ah i needed a red band we we're going through all that crap and this guy comes over and says you know. um That was going to be my watch. I said, what do you mean it was going to be your watch? Why are they selling it to me? Well, I bought a piece, I bought a Rolex, and I decided to sell it. you said how like How long between when you bought it and you sold it? A week later, I decided I didn't like it.
00:15:30
Speaker
I said, and you're wondering why I'm getting this watch? Do you not even understand what you did? right And this is a dealer here? Yeah, they blackballed him. they And so I asked later, because I didn't know who this guy was, but he was a pew chart take fan. We did some pictures of his kids and stuff. And the guy said to me, that guy is finished. He will never buy another piece. Done. He's done. And he wasn't a collector in the first place if he didn't understand. Right.
00:15:56
Speaker
and so when i now talk about this you have to get yourself in the community mode your part of a community. it's It's like a tribe hundred percent and you understand it but a lot of people don't i have never sold a piece i have i never bought a piece and sold it even the stuff i do with teddy i never sell it right and see more brit called me up he said i've got five prototypes.
00:16:19
Speaker
I know who you are. I'm going to sell number three. I just want to make sure people have told me you've never sold a watch. Is it true? I said, Simon, not only have I never sold a watch, I will personally fly to Geneva to meet you with my father to see your shop and I will take possession of the watch there. Amazing. And we spent hours together. Now he's got two more on the way for me because I love his pieces and I'm going to wait the three years.
00:16:46
Speaker
It's my first time seeing it in person. We picked that up and tell me what your initial reaction was to look at that. First off, it's featherweight. But the hand hammering gold flux that he does on the dial is out of control. Isn't that crazy? It's crazy. yeah i mean I saw the digital pictures, but then I actually held the piece and my dad said, that's insane. That's titanium. Titanium, the barrels on the back are incredible. And the only one with red numerals, he did that for me and the red band.
00:17:14
Speaker
Now, let me tell you a story staying on our community issue. So he made a piece for someone. Clearly, who we thought was a collector and supported his vision, you know, a month later, it got it went to the market for four hundred and fifty thousand. It's crazy. And he was pissed out of his mind. Yeah. And. I mean, it first of all, establish a market price, secondary market.
00:17:44
Speaker
ah And that was not even a prototype. That's a prototype. I don't even know what the prototypes are worth. But I've talked to Paul Butros. Paul Butros, good friend of mine over at Phillips, has often solicited my wife and said, listen, this guy's going to die one day. Why doesn't your family choose 14 or 15 now? And then we'll have a relationship with you for the estate sale of Kevin Williams watches. And I said, fuck both of you. They're coming with you. These watches are coming with me in the coffin.
00:18:08
Speaker
That's
Relationships with Watchmakers
00:18:09
Speaker
not happening. hundred percent You got to be at least a little happy while you're in there, right? Yeah, exactly. And I'm going to be away somewhere for a long time. I need good watches. No, I think the one thing I love about the watch community and I'll relate this to Jorn specifically.
00:18:24
Speaker
I don't own a Jorn, I would love to own a Jorn, but both Pierre from Miami and Kenny from l LA flew out to Arizona to meet with a group of collectors, one who's a big Jorn collector, but the rest of us don't maybe have one or two or none. They came out and spent the whole day with us.
00:18:41
Speaker
include us in the Jordan community, they know very well that we're not going to get a watch right away. because That's just the fact that you would spend the time. I've told Pierre. Well, the fact that they would spend the time with us, I thought was really, really impressive because brands don't do that. Well, they do now because and I'm not the only one in the Jordan society that said this to Pierre and to FP himself and to Rocky and there's a lot of other people in the in in that company.
00:19:05
Speaker
I said for every 10 made three have to go to a guy like you right a young guy coming in right and it will perpetuate the brand in perpetuity but make sure these people are real collectors even if they're young.
00:19:20
Speaker
You can tell. right but A guy like you, I can tell you're a collector. You're crazy about these pieces. crazy about So that's why they're interviewing you to determine, are you going to be part of the new generation? And I would say, yeah, i I'll be your advocate for you. Well, I appreciate that. I mean, Pierre and I have all kinds of conversations about watches.
00:19:37
Speaker
but And I go on the trips, you know, we went together to Japan to go to look at Grand Seiko and Kridor. I mean, once you get this virus, this watch thing, you are screwed. You're fucked. You're just fucked. i mean it's just and And the crap I go through with my wife about it all the time when she says, another watch. What are you doing? You don't even you can't even wear what you've got if you wore it six a day. right But I just keep coming back. well That's the only reason I work anymore is to buy another one. It's all the fun in it, right? Yeah. I think at the end of the day, collecting is this thing and you get into so many different hobbies and so many different interests and they all somehow mesh together. And as successful as you've been in business, I'd love to know what collecting has done for you in terms of the business person that you are.
00:20:25
Speaker
you know it's it's It's made me reflect on my life a bit about what it takes. How many decades did it take for me to earn a crash from Cartier? 40. Took me 40 years of buying Cartier before somebody in Paris said, give that man a crash. yeahp i mean that And a skeleton too. Yeah, I didn't give it to me. I bought it. Sure. The number of people that have tried to buy that off me, I have never seen anything like it.
00:20:50
Speaker
that watch, I have never seen anything like it. Now, I mean, you can't even tell the time on that dial. The crash itself is already so avant-garde, but when you add the skeleton to it, it's a different body. But but what the the the idea that I would ever sell it after waiting 40 years to have the right to buy it. Right.
00:21:11
Speaker
like I asked the guy that offered me a crazy price for it. He said, why would I do this? Yeah. Can you give me a reason for what? How am I ever going to get another crash? Yeah. He said, oh, you're Kevin O'Leary and get another crash. I said, no, he I can't. I can't because they've entrusted the ownership of this piece. Right. And I really am appreciative. I picked it up in New York. I got to tell you, I was emotionally moved. Everybody in the room.
00:21:38
Speaker
even in the headquarters here in New York and never seen it, yeah the platinum. it's I think it's number two. The other one's probably in the museum. It's amazing. And they're going to make a few more. Nobody knows when or who's going to get them. But I beg them, please make it so I can wear it on Shark Tank season 16. Right.
00:21:57
Speaker
And I sent a picture to Artemis and she said, that's it that's it. That's the one. That's the one. She said, that's the same. but What are we going to pair it with? and i And we're negotiating that now. I want to get another Cartier for the other side yeah for the September shoot, because Cartier is so unique in how they've kind of transcended just watchmaking into style, history, horology, brand. Right. The whole thing is it's It's almost a different level. It's a different level. And it's a level of taste that isn't for everybody. Some people poo-poo Cartier because ah it's too small, it's too delicate, but when you have that on, you are easily the most elegant and classy person in the room. Yeah. I've always felt that that look from 20 feet away just says something about style. Yeah. But it's also very collectible. Absolutely. And and and Vint instead, my first watch as a Cartier,
00:22:52
Speaker
i just I just think about, but you know, I have that passion for brands and and I've got many different watches, but I also want to support young watchmakers. And that's where I got this whole thing going with Teddy. sharked And say, Teddy, you're you're you're supporting entry-level horology. You're you're trying to get watches for $2,600, $800. I'm a buyer. Like, let's work together. I have many pieces of his that I paid $600 for that people stop me saying, where'd you get that? A hundred percent. Because he he totally gets me on the dial thing.
00:23:22
Speaker
So every piece I get from him is a ah piece unique from the dial perspective and the makers know it. But watchmaking is a commitment of your life.
Wine Collecting and Personal Taste
00:23:30
Speaker
You start at 14 and then you're screwed. right I mean, you're really screwed. So it's it's half art, half science. ah Either you're into it or you're not. Yeah.
00:23:39
Speaker
And then the small business needed a huge budget for its TV ad. Kevin, you know the struggles of customer acquisition is way too scary to read after, darling. Wonder Ads powered by Tatari helps small businesses run ads on TV at a low cost. I asked two friends of mine who collect, not in the categories that you collect in there that I collect into, come up with a couple questions that I felt were maybe a little bit more compelling to ask you because they're not collectors of the same stuff.
00:24:07
Speaker
And so the first one was, as a wine connoisseur, where would be a good person a good place for someone to start collecting wine? Collecting wine, yeah. You know, um I started drinking wine in Switzerland when I was eight years old because they don't have a phobia right about wine in Europe and they don't drink at night very often. It's usually at lunch and they sometimes water down the kids' wine.
00:24:32
Speaker
But my father taught me about all the Burgundis, all the Bordeaux. ah So I'm very fluent in in French wines, not so much in Italian. really good at California, where I make a lot of wine for old, very fine wines. I sell a lot of wine. Sure. About 50,000 cases a year. Amazing. But I've learned something. and My wife is almost sommelier now. She has an incredible palette, particularly for whites. you know She can just have a sip of a ah white, say, Old World, Montrachet,
00:25:04
Speaker
2070, right? ah shit That's sick. That's spectacular. And she's right. I mean, yeah how does she do that? Yeah. And so it's sort of at California in the same way. But what I've learned, though, is you have to try a lot of different wines to find out where you fit in the strata on what you like, right? Because it's not just about being a wine snob and buying a Latour 82. What if you don't like it?
00:25:32
Speaker
You know, it's sort of, and so I say, try everything, go in. And and the the crazy thing you gotta know about the wine businesses, is very often a wine that I'll sell for $11 on QVC, it's the same juice that's being sold for 110. Absolutely. like And so it's all about brand, just distribution, the making of the bottles and how you get them to people. I tell everybody who wants to start,
00:26:02
Speaker
Start trying everything. Have you ever had a Pinot Grigio? Have you ever had a Chardonnay? What about a Chablis? And you will find within a month what your palate is. I have shifted from oaky shards now to Burgundian whites, which is a very expensive move because I'm so pissed off at how expensive they are. but I've fallen in love with them. So I like ah a lighter shard, a crisper shard, a minimally shard. And that's, as I'm aging, my palate's changing. right So I'm very selective. And my pro I don't drink any other alcohol except one. I gave all that up because I'm into the sleep thing and longevity and everything else. But I have a glass of white.
00:26:40
Speaker
And then two glasses of red with it with dinner. And I try to do that three hours before I go to sleep. Yeah. Because wine and alcohol will screw your sleep up. Absolutely. Yeah. It's a shame. It is a shame because it's it's good. yeah And so the other question was on that tangent is.
00:26:57
Speaker
At this point, you know sometimes people that collect wine, they always say, oh, we'll save this for a special occasion. And then a special occasion comes, and yeah what is the special occasion to open up something rare? so That's a very good point you're making, because the other day, I was with my wife, Linda, and I made a pizza, because I have a pizza company called Bratello. I make pizzas all the time.
Collecting and Business Success
00:27:21
Speaker
And I went into our cellar at the lake house, and I found a 1962 Chevablon. Sure.
00:27:28
Speaker
Which, I mean, you know, I don't know how many bottles are left in the world of that. Not many. Not many. And I brought it down to the dock and i she said, what did you pull? I said, 62. She said, what are you doing? You're fucking mine? I said, what are we saving it for? yeah Why don't we eat it with this pizza? Yeah, perfect. And I opened it. It was still perfect. Yeah. And I kept the bottle to put a candle in it just to show people we had it. We loved it. um Cork was still good. The shoulder was good.
00:27:57
Speaker
There is no perfect time. and the The only crime would have been with that bottle to have served as someone who didn't know what it was. Right. I couldn't appreciate it. I feel that way about the DRCs that I have, because when we have a dinner party and you know Linda says, let's let's serve a DRC, I say no, because a lot of the people at the table won't even like it, won't know what it is. They don't like the barnyard smell of it. Right. And that bottle is worth $7,000. Right. And I bought it back when it was 350. I mean, I've been buying Burgundian wines since 1990. Sure. And so, and i I've curated them and I have multiple sellers. I've got a good friend. We have a massive seller in Boston. We buy divorce sellers. there's all All these hedge fund guys always get divorced all the time. Right. And the first thing goes to the wine. So we go in for the cash offers. I mean, hedge fund guys are remarkable. though Some of them don't even know what they have. No. And they just... They're not the ones buying it. they're not Yeah, they got a wine consulted guy and Eric goes in and looks at everything and says, okay, that's worth 250 grand. Right. or leave it
00:28:56
Speaker
no No commission. and you know A lot of them buy wines, like Californian caps, and they're 20 years old. Those are dead. yeah yeah They're dead. The other question I wanted to ask is, at this stage in your collecting, and with anyone's collecting, especially when it comes to rare pieces, you get the call when you get the call. And when it comes in, you either say yes or no. And you can't really plan it around a special occasion right or a special time anymore.
00:29:23
Speaker
How often are you able to celebrate a win in your career by buying something in this stage of collecting? It's harder now. um It's harder. I had a unique situation recently, a difficult situation we were going back to. um a very good friend of mine that was also ah ah invested in his company. He had a massive multi-billion dollar exit and he decided to do get married.
00:29:54
Speaker
and he He called me up and said, look, I want to go into collecting and I'd like to get a, I want to wear a protectfully at my wedding. Rightfully so. Yeah. And I want my wife to have one too. Immediately I said to Linda, that's our gift to them. But how are we going to get them? right And the one he wanted wasn't even available in North America. It was primarily destined for Asia. This is where the relationship comes in with the maker.
00:30:26
Speaker
I called them up and said, here's the situation. Here's the family. Here's the story. Here's the details about the wedding. Here's the date. But it got worse. He wanted a Tiffany stand. Don't we all? Yes. And so all I could do was tell the story to both Tiffany and Patek and say, can you help me with this? And um I was expecting a no.
00:30:55
Speaker
But someone at Patek, I know who it probably was, but I won't mention said, we love love. We're gonna do this for you. And that day I bought three protects. Amazing. You know why? Because my wife said, what am I chopped liver? I need one now. yeah yeah yeah And I wanted Tiffany's name too. yeah And I explained that problem. And so I probably won't get to buy a protect for a while. But the company understands the moment in life that that meant. And so even Tiffany cooperated.
00:31:25
Speaker
but get them and And everybody was a winner because he will never sell that watch ever. And she wept like a baby when we we did a big presentation here in New York at the two different dealers that were set up for this champagne, the wedding. She cried when the box opened. And what a moment, right? Amazing. You think she'll ever sell that? Never. No, can't beat it. Can't beat it for her wedding. So that whole thing, to me, just crystallized the relationship of watch collecting. They knew who I was. They and met him.
00:31:55
Speaker
I think he will become a collector. He's like you. sean dejon You know, it's sort of... um I don't know. I'm very passionate about it. You can tell. But I've been doing it forever. Right. not It's not a new thing for you. No, it's not a new thing. And I and i think i I've earned my stripes. and But you're right. I can't exactly time them anymore.
00:32:15
Speaker
but Here's a great story, because I'm going to show you these two watches. These are two elegance. This is my original elegance. This is doesn't even exist. right This is a red dial elegant made for the restaurant in Geneva, and only the patrons of the restaurant will FP make one for them. Incredible. I saw it with a red band. I said, FP, what am I, chopped liver? I'm the red band guy. And red dial anything? And he said, you don't live in Geneva. You're not a patron of the restaurant. I said, look.
00:32:43
Speaker
I have to wear that on season 16, right beside my original elegant. He said, I like that idea. Take this one off my wrist, go wear it and then come back to Geneva, give it back to me. Which I mean, I have to do that.
Lessons from Missed Opportunities
00:32:58
Speaker
But the point is, again, a relationship. Right. Right. For FP to give you his watch and say, I trust you with this.
00:33:05
Speaker
I'm happy it's on your wrist, don't enjoy a steal it. obviously and I'm very careful with it. But I have worn this and people have recognized it and they've gone insane. Like, I only heard in the of of a ghost that had one. Is it real? You know, all that stuff. Is that a knockoff? or Is it fake? I said, no. He makes them, but good luck getting one. yeah Amazing.
00:33:25
Speaker
Well, I don't want to take too much more of your time, but I do want to wrap it up with the collector's dream rundown. This is a list of questions that I ask each guest at the end, and you can answer them based on watches or pens or guitars or wine, whatever you see fit. Absolutely. So the first question is, what's the one that got away? ah Now you've broken my heart. I was in Geneva visiting the dial factory at F.P. Journe when a ruby came back made of the stone. and Wow. I think they only made 11.
00:33:53
Speaker
It just happened that morning. I walked in and Pierre said, come up here. This isn't going to be bought by the person we thought was going to buy it. Yes or no right now. And I said, you mean it was owned by somebody else? He said, yeah, for like a minute. And now it's back here. I said, I don't want a watch that was owned by somebody else. Oh, I know that that I mean, I will never get that piece. I think it's worth two million dollars now. Sure. It's one of eleven.
00:34:25
Speaker
What the fuck was I thinking? yeah Like, that's the one that I wish I could have. I'm so pissed you asked me that question. I just... I will never make that mistake again, but it the pain of that, because that should be in my collection. It should. Maybe one day it'll make it to my back. I don't know where the other... I mean, i like, those that is one of the rarest of the rare You know, I know Danny Gugberg and George Meir over at 1916, and I tell them that story and they say, you idiot. Give you be a hard time. Exactly. How about the unobtainable? So this is one that's in a museum or a private collection. It's just unobtainable because you can't even get your hand on it. So this may be a strange answer for you. I believe that I can get anything. I love that answer. and
00:35:15
Speaker
And the reason I believe that is I have never broken my core values about collecting on any asset class. I don't flip anything. I think I'm well known for that. I've earned that. And I have found every brand takes my call for that reason alone. And so if if there's something I want that's a piece unique, it's a matter of time. Well, I have piece uniques. i When Francois was running AP, I said, Francois, I want a ruby red.
00:35:46
Speaker
Royal Oak that no one else has. And he said, okay, let's do it. And I have that piece. I can basically never wear it because I can't ensure it because they'll never make it again. right And when we send it to LA, it's by guard and we wear it on the I wear it on the set. bike And I remember i remember um on that piece, um it took two years to design it, I was calling around collectors and I said to one of them,
00:36:13
Speaker
I can make it in any metal." And I'm thinking of going platinum. And he said, never. It's got to be steel. It's got to be the 1972 Genta hundred percent steel. yeah And I i said, the i I can't remember which designer in in Switzerland they said, that's the hardest metal to work with in putting these stones in.
00:36:32
Speaker
I said, well, it's got to be steel. It's got to be. And I'm glad I made that decision. Yeah. Now the watch is gorgeous. The video you did on it's fantastic. It broke my heart yeah to see that thing. I was so blown away. But you know.
00:36:44
Speaker
So that may sound arrogant, but I believe Gibson made me a Mr. Wonderful, the only SG from the 60s with that light SG body, because I respect their brand and I'm gonna play it. So no, nothing's, I think in life you should believe everything's attainable if you're willing to work hard enough. Yep, absolutely. I think this is a testament to that. for Yeah, I'm pretty proud of this. but I knew we'd be getting together. i brought so There's a couple of piece of techniques in there. Yeah, there sure is. in that you know And right now, I'm in love with that crash. It's sick. It's next level. Yeah, I mean, I'm just i'm into that car chase zone right now. It's a good zone to be in. yeah How about the on deck circle? So this is something that is so got you excited and collecting something. Maybe you're waiting on a brand or a watchmaker that's got you excited right now.
00:37:32
Speaker
There is. um
00:37:37
Speaker
it's yeah when you When you meet, I don't know if you're aware of what happens during the journ. Each year he runs a contest, worldwide contest for young watchmakers. And he invited me to this lunch.
00:37:53
Speaker
And I sat quietly and I said, you know, F.P. I'd like to interview these young watchmakers afterwards. He said, I don't have any problem with that. And he went downstairs and then he came back and he he decided to participate. And I shot a two hour interview with him that no one has ever interviewed that guy for that long and the watchmakers. And I met two new watchmakers there.
00:38:19
Speaker
But I learned that they coveted, the the previous year was Simone Britt. He won that award. And look what happened to his brand from that. Incredible. So right now, I am awaiting, Simone Britt is is going to make three different cases. So when I talked to Boutros about it, he said, whatever precious metals he goes into, to get the perfect collection from him, you need one of each, right? And so I asked him about this is gonna be a kind of a five year journey, maybe 10 years. We're gonna do that.
Security and New Ventures
00:38:54
Speaker
So incredible. And you know,
00:38:57
Speaker
I'll have three. Yeah. And i'm that will be probably one of my most valuable verticals. I can wind when you buy 82 and the 80, 80, 90, 90, it's a vertical from that decade. Well, it'll be the same for that. Amazing. How about the page one rewrite? And I phrase this with a grain of salt. yeah If money was no object yeah and you could collect anything besides watches and pens and guitars and all it took was a blank check, what would it be?
00:39:27
Speaker
I would probably go into cars more, but the thing that I found so difficult with cars is the storage of them. Sure. And the maintenance. The maintenance and the storage. Now, if you have a dealership like this and you have the facilities to do it, I would be a collector and I would take some portion of the basement in here and fill it with cars. And I've got many friends that are car collectors, but I see the pain and misery they go through, through and because I love cars. Right.
00:39:55
Speaker
I mean, the real estate headache alone, sure. It's madness. It's madness. So for me, I can either buy a another Porsche, which I love Porsches, or I can buy another F.P. Jorn, which I can wear. And enjoy in stories easier and all the rest of that. i
Admiration for Fellow Collectors
00:40:13
Speaker
i will i wish so I'll say one thing that I've learned the hard way with watch collecting, and it's with guitars too, theft.
00:40:20
Speaker
Yeah, and insurance. um I am going to be launching in the next 60 days a new watch insurance business. I started for myself. Wonder Care, right? Wonder Care. I put it out on my social. I've got thousands of requests for policies now. So I'm actually working with the insurers starting US domestic, and then we're going to go to Europe. um Very hard to get licensed. I've been working on this for two years. But it lets me ensure them for replacement value scraped from the internet in the last 24 hours. Great. Or purchase price, my decision. Right. It got a 1.72% of either value. Sure. And I could turn it off and on, it will.
00:41:03
Speaker
Amazing. So I need that. And it's a plug for that business because we're talking about collectibles. But um I'm excited about that business. I've got lots of partners in it. But that's part of the whole watch ethos thing. you know yeah if anybody can you know If anybody on Earth should should have a watch insurance company, it's me. It's got to be me. And that's pretty well you know when I went to watches and wondered, I talked to every brand and said, here's what I'm doing. They said, we're interested. yeah There's none of them want to be regulated. But I'm regulated in the indexing business for equity. So I might as well, if I were already paying millions for my compliance, I can do insurance. Yeah, why not, right? Exactly. Next question is the goat. So who do you think is a great collector out there, whether it's when your counterparts from Shark Tank or a good friend of yours? um I have a lot of respect for John Mayer, that he understands and I know him. um I've got to know Brady.
00:41:55
Speaker
You guys were just at the White Party together? Well, we've met before that. He also has some genres. He's interested um also in dials. Yeah. The only guy that, you know, I thought I won the night at the White Party with the crash because the press was going crazy, all the operazzi, until Brady walks in with a one-of-a-kind AP covered in diamonds with at the 11th hour marker the number of Super Bowls he'd won. I mean, what the fuck? you know That's a big FU. Yeah, well it's a big FU. And he said, sorry, Kev, I've nailed you tonight. I said, you actually have. Yeah. But he's going to, maybe I'm speaking out of school, but he's making another, they made two and he they're going to have a massive auction on that second piece. Amazing. It'll go for millions. It sure will. Yeah. It'll be the only other one identical to Brady's. And I think that'll be a big auction item. Absolutely. But that's great too. That's for charity, right? Yeah. How about the hunt or the ownership? Which one do you enjoy more?
00:42:55
Speaker
I think the hunt. Yeah. That's a pretty yeah unanimous answer with most collectors. yeah I love it when people say, you'll never have this watch. Yeah. And then then a year later, I've got two of them. Right. Because I mean, I just find that...
00:43:11
Speaker
I don't care who the maker is right i'll fly i'll see them i'll talk to them i'll explain who I am if they don't know me and i'll buy a watch yeah and they want me to buy a watch because it it falls into a collection i think by the way i thought i was have to tell you a true story. Sure. I thought I was maybe the world's largest watch collector for a while. Right. Until I got to the United Arab Emirates. Oh, forget it. I am a nothing burger. Impaired. Claude. I mean, I could not believe the collections over there. Yeah. The the amount of piece uniques, the incredible
00:43:51
Speaker
I mean, those guys really, really, yeah really are the guys. Yeah. And you've said before that you kind of, if they're in the auction room, you stay away. but they're Well, Claude. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there are guys that I know I can't be. There's always somebody bigger than you. You have to respect that. There's always somebody above you. And if I go to a Phillips auction or something, I'll ask them,
00:44:15
Speaker
you know, is Claude on this? Does he want this piece? Because and I'm not going to get it. right That happened on a Chopard. And I saw the Chopard in the priests previewing three days earlier, one of a kind, laughing Mexican skull by a, sharp I think it it was a Swiss woman artist to carve that.
00:44:38
Speaker
And I said to Paul, listen, and I'd would really like to be on the bit on this thing. yeah But I don't want to make a fool of myself right worldwide. I need to know if Claude's going to buy this. yeah Because everybody knows if he wants it, you're fucked. You're out. you're it doesn't there's You do not have enough capital. You're just making it more expensive for him. that's all He doesn't give a shit. And he doesn't give a shit. He doesn't give a shit. So it it's just it's pointless. And apparently, he had decided that he had something similar
00:45:08
Speaker
Clothes of fear, now he's suffered a health setback, but he is probably, of Lebanese descent like me, I'm half Lebanese, half Irish, I've met him. What did he have on his wrist when I met him the first time? Jordan. He has zero, zero, zero, the first prototypes ah FP made for him. Nobody even knows about it, unbelievable. so
00:45:35
Speaker
I mean, I saw that and I said, I don't recognize that piece, but it's a journey. And i I know every journey. He said, no, you don't. You don't know this one. You don't know this one. I just met him for lunch and it introduced me by one of the royal family and we spent three hours together. I mean, I realized I'm just dog shit compared to him. It's very important to be humbled. There's levels. To understand, but he's in a different level. He's not even human. No. It's madness. And he has some of the very first prototype Rolexes. Yeah, really rare stuff.
00:46:11
Speaker
in part If that collection ever comes to market, it will be a billion dollar sale or more at minimum. yeah yeah it'll be if They can't do them all at once. they're going to have to I don't think it's coming. I think it'll stay in the family. It's like the um John Reardon on the ah John Lennon watched The Patek. Right. It's back here in New York.
The Addictive Nature of Collecting
00:46:32
Speaker
$24.99. Yeah. And so I talked to him about it. That's a piece I'd like. And so, but Yoko Onus decided not to sell it. Yeah. It's probably going to shine. Yeah. It's probably the world's most sought after watch
00:46:48
Speaker
today. How far above the Paul Newman Daytona do you think that would go? So we talked a lot about that. I was thinking in today's market, which is also down about 28% for brands, except like Jorn's and certain other brands of Simone Brit. There's no correction price there because it's so few. The Newman with Sellers com Commission was $17.2 US, I yeah think. Yeah, $17.1, $17.2, somewhere around there. right
00:47:14
Speaker
I was thinking 25. That's what I was thinking, 24, 25, I mean. It's for me, and what I wanted to do with that piece, if I could have been allowed to have a private sale, and I, it just wasn't one conversation with John, I said, if I could go see her and bring together a syndicate of collectors, four of us, five of us, right with so she would know a certainty that watch would never be traded, or it would just be held by us,
00:47:44
Speaker
during our lifetimes in our states out of respect for it. He said, I think so. Yeah. No, I think the push and pull of her even getting it back. The story's crazy. The most wild story I've ever read. It's all over the internet. Jay Fielding did a great job. No, I thought they did. I thought it it was great. But once I learned about it and I said, it's a Tiffany stamp. So I asked Reardon, I said, how do we know with certainty?
00:48:07
Speaker
Given all the hands has gone through he said believe me if I open that up I'll tell you yeah, and ah and no one would buy that without rareton Checking it honey. He's not he's the goat on he's a guy. Yeah He's the guy so everybody would if you're buying vintage protect you have to buy it from him Yeah, even you have to pay his commission. It doesn't matter he's got to open it up and look no you can sleep good at night knowing you bought some yeah Yeah, cuz a lot of the like these you know what you've got on here is These are rarest, you know what, yeah but also there's there's knockoffs too, 100%. Can I see that thing? Absolutely, please. And we'll wrap it up while you're looking at that. The most important question, which is, do you feel that you were born with the collector's gene? and I do, actually. yeah and i I wouldn't call it a gene, I'd call it a curse. A curse. It's a curse. It it really is. yeah I keep saying to myself, hey why don't we just cool it?
00:48:53
Speaker
for a couple of months and not bring another watch home just to see if we could do it. Yeah. Sort of like a drug addict. Yeah. Not possible. Nope. Not possible. Well, there you have it. Kevin O'Leary, A.K.A. Mr. Wonderful with Collector's Dream Radio. Thank you so much for joining me today. It's been an absolute pleasure. and And a fantastic piece. that's think beautiful Thank you. Thank you. This whole thing is coming back to small diameters. It's coming back. It's a classic. Yeah, totally. Looks great on you too. Thanks so much. You got it. Thank you. i Appreciate it. Thank you.
00:49:19
Speaker
All right, that does it for this episode. Thank you all for listening to Collector's Gene Radio.