Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Matteo Violet-Vianello - Founder, Anoma Watch
741 Plays4 days ago
Today’s guest is founder of Anoma Watch, Matteo Violet-Vianello. Anoma isn’t just a watch brand; it’s a daring artistic statement that pushes the boundaries of what a watch can be. With its inaugural creation, the A1, Matteo has seamlessly merged influences as diverse as Charlotte Perriand’s freeform tables, Brancusi’s modernist sculptures, and the natural elegance of primitive tools & river stones. Anoma offers a rare intersection of profound design and accessibility—a gateway for collectors to engage with bold creativity typically reserved for galleries and museums.
But Matteo’s journey to Anoma doesn’t come without tenure. From disassembling vintage watches as a child to handling some of the rarest pieces during his time at Sotheby’s and A Collected Man, he has spent the better part of his life, not only immersed in the craft and culture of watches, but in the most coveted art, design, and architecture. Its these influences that converge in Anoma’s ethos, where the idea always comes first, and reality is bent to bring it to life.
We get a sneak peak into what lies ahead for the brand, the thoughtfulness behind Matteo’s designs, and the evolving role of watches as both art objects and collectibles. So without further adieu, this is Matteo, founder of Anoma Watch, for Collectors Gene Radio.
Anoma Watch - https://anomawatches.com/
Anoma Watch Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/anomawatch
Cameron Steiner - https://www.instagram.com/cameronrosssteiner
Collectors Gene - https://www.collectorsgene.com
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction & Invitation
00:00:00
Speaker
I don't think I ever would have been able to create if I hadn't first been ah collector and enthusiast that kind of connected with these things deeply and then curating them for other people widens your sensibilities as to why other people care about things. What's going on, everybody? And welcome to Collector's Gene Radio.
00:00:23
Speaker
This is all about diving into the nuances of collecting and ultimately finding out whether or not our guests have what we like to call the collector's gene. If you have the time, please subscribe and leave a review. It truly helps.
00:00:36
Speaker
Thanks a bunch for listening, and please enjoy today's guest Collector's Gene Radio.
Meet Matteo Violet-Vianello
00:00:43
Speaker
Today's guest is founder of EnomaWatch, Matteo Violet-Vianello. Enoma isn't just a watch brand. It's a daring artistic statement that pushes the boundaries of what a watch can be. With its inaugural creation, the A1, Mateo has seamlessly merged influences as diverse as Charlotte Perignon's freeform tables, Rancusi's modernist sculptures, and the natural elegance of primitive tools and riverstones.
00:01:05
Speaker
Enoma offers a rare intersection of profound design and accessibility, a gateway for collectors to engage with bold creativity typically reserved for galleries and museums. But Matteo's journey to ennolment doesn't come without tenure.
00:01:18
Speaker
From disassembling watches as a child to handling some of the rarest pieces during his time at Sotheby's in A Collected Man, he has spent the better part of his life not only immersed in the craft and culture of watches, but in the most coveted art, design, and architecture.
00:01:32
Speaker
It's these influences that converge in Enoma's ethos, where the idea always comes first and reality is bent to bring it to life. We get a sneak peek into what lies ahead for the brand, the thoughtfulness behind Mateo's designs, and the evolving role of watches as both art objects and collectibles.
00:01:49
Speaker
So without further ado, this is Mateo, founder of Enoma Watch, for Collector's Gene Radio.
Influences & Career Beginnings
00:01:59
Speaker
Mateo, such a pleasure to have you on Collector's Gene Radio today. Thank you for having Cameron. My pleasure. So many recognize you as the visionary behind Enoma Watch, but your journey with watches, I would say, began much earlier, evolving through probably pretty formative experiences at places like Sotheby's and A Collected Man.
00:02:20
Speaker
But Anoma is, in my opinion, and I'm sure yours too, so much more than just a watch brand, right? It's this artistic expression with each element of your initial concept, the a one that is so deeply inspired by art and design.
00:02:37
Speaker
And you have actual references that you can point to, which not many brands do these days. So To start, I'd love to understand how your time at the aforementioned company shaped your perspective and led you to approach Enoma with such intentionality.
00:02:52
Speaker
Good question. I mean, first, I i don't know if I'd ah agree with the line ah visionary. i think I'm mainly a ah recycler of great ideas and insights I find in a lot of places, whether it's nature or arts or elsewhere, I appreciate the compliment.
00:03:06
Speaker
I think as far as you know, my passion for watches, it almost, I'd almost started a little bit earlier than my time at Sotheby's and I clicked demand because it hopefully leads to, to why i ended up working with those places. But I got fairly obsessed with watches. i think when I was about five or six.
00:03:22
Speaker
So discovered um a set of like broken and vintage watches in a drawer at home, nothing special. I think they were, you know, Seiko's. and So nothing kind of like horologically significant, but I got,
00:03:36
Speaker
really fascinated by these kind of tiny and mechanical things, as I'm sure a lot of us do when we first come across them, and started kind of like disassembling with them playing around with them, ah kind of trying to recombine them, and then quickly fell down the rabbit hole um of watches for, you know, all the reasons that we all do around the craft, the history, the design, the reasons so much of us choose to project meanings on those things and and the multiple meanings that they can have.
00:04:05
Speaker
um And it kind of followed me throughout you know ah childhood, adolescence, into adulthood until I then decided that it's something I wanted to do you know professionally and kind of turn and turn my passion into profession.
00:04:17
Speaker
So i worked for at Sotheby's briefly and then ended up spending a fair bit of time, kind of four, four and a half years at A Collected Man, as you pointed out.
00:04:28
Speaker
I think that was a really, really formative experience because obviously Collected Man focuses on kind of lower volume very kind of curated selection of watches whether it's vintage neo-vintage independence and i think for me the experience was amazing in my ability to like get hands-on with a lot of different watches but also get a lot of different perspectives of what watchmaking could be from the kind of like very classic established houses all the way to you know independence crafting 10 watches a year and I think it really helped shape my perspective very intuitively for the objects themselves you know handling them feeling them lot of the things you can't really learn or get a sense for it unless you get hands-on but it also I think really broadened my perspective as to what watchmaking could be and I really fell in love with like strong viewpoints about watchmaking you know that's what a lot the independents are about in a way you know they're
00:05:28
Speaker
parallels with artists or or is is often, I think, appropriate because it's people who have something very distinctive to say, aren't able to say it within the structures of society or within the structures of other watch companies in this case, and decide to set out on their own and say what it is they want to say.
00:05:46
Speaker
so I think that whole experience was really, really quite formative um and yeah and set the seeds, ah some of the seeds at least for
Cultural Influences & Aesthetic Development
00:05:55
Speaker
Enoma. ah for a no I love it.
00:05:58
Speaker
I would have to imagine, you know, after the few times that we've chatted and got to know you a little bit, that your upbringing must have shaped your influence too. I mean, between Paris and Venice, what things do you remember as a kid in terms of design that stuck with you? Because one, you don't have a design background and between Paris and Venice are two extremely special places, but wildly different.
00:06:23
Speaker
Yeah, I think to first in a weird way, you know, once you've done something, you kind of look back and discover how everything in your life almost led up to that point, or at least was a contributing influence at that point.
00:06:38
Speaker
And I think I realized this with, um with a Noma that actually, you know, that upbringing was hugely influential. So as you mentioned, my mom is originally from Venice, my father from Corsica, but I was kind of raised ah in Paris, between Paris and Venice.
00:06:56
Speaker
And you know, I think it was really in a context that, you know growing up, we were constantly surrounded by culture, whether it was kind of music at home, books, endlessly dragged to museums on family holidays, which, you know at the time was something that we obviously hated and wanted to escape from, but really left a kind of like um market impact.
00:07:17
Speaker
But there are also two places that pervade, i think, culture, design, and also the mixing of design. Because I think what what's very interesting is if you look at Venice as an example, you know we think of Venice today as you know a city that's very representative of a certain period of Italy in one style.
00:07:35
Speaker
you know Historically, you know it was a you know wealthy merchant city for close to a thousand years, influenced from the Ottoman Empire, from Asia, ah from Mediterranean cultures. And so it was such a melting pot of so many different cultures, which makes the city and the fabric of the city so like immensely rich.
00:07:54
Speaker
And so I think it's also, it definitely shaped my, you know, on a basic level sense of, you know, beauty and classical art, but also really started to develop, I guess, this love for the mixture of elements.
00:08:07
Speaker
You know, if you walk around Venice, you actually see, you know, in the architecture influences from the Ottoman Empire, and from, and you know, cultures further afield and in kind of China and and that part of the world. And so i think both of them were,
00:08:24
Speaker
You know, on one level, I really got that appreciation more generally for kind of arts and the culture. But also as you kind of live in them and get under the skin, you also get conscious that really interesting things happen in the kind of melding and mixing.
00:08:38
Speaker
And so I think it was hugely influential. And a lot of my taste today, whether it's in art, in furniture and architecture, i think was shaped by those those early experiences, no doubt. I think the listeners would be pretty keen to know what watches interested you or what watches you were collecting before you started Anoma.
00:08:57
Speaker
Was it all about odd case shapes for you the way the A1 is? Or is it more about the artistic design, brand focus? What caught Mateo's attention? I'd say it was a real it was a real range.
00:09:09
Speaker
And in a way, what I'd like to say is like I tried to collect strong points of view ah regardless of where they sit on the spectrum. So, you know, watches I've owned in in the past that sadly I've now had to pass on to other owners, and ah starting a watch business, being the financial hole that it is, have been, you know, everything from, you know, a classic 33 millimeter Patek Kalatrava, which was a 90s reference, but was a re-edition of the original 1906 from the early 20th century.
00:09:40
Speaker
So that was interesting. nine nineteen Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. watch. And that's great because obviously has the wearability of ah of a modern or neo-vintage watch. But that's a watch that is so reductive and represents like an archetype.
00:09:54
Speaker
and And in many ways, some would argue, is the quintessential time-only watch and an homage to the watch that invented or at least set the standard for but what ah a classic watch would look like.
00:10:06
Speaker
And so I think it went all the way from that to, you know, um I had an URWC UR 103 for a long time, know, which was, I have tiny risks, could barely wear it, but I know I'd take it off the strap, I'd hold it, I'd play around with it.
00:10:21
Speaker
And it was like this tiny spaceship that you can hold in your hands and and enjoy. And I think What I like isn't necessarily coherent in terms of like a specific taste. It's not that I like classic watches or non-classic watches or shapes or not shapes or complications or not complications.
00:10:38
Speaker
I think it's just when you come across something that is like an undiluted point of view, you can't help but be moved by it and be excited by it. And that's the stuff I've always kind of been drawn to.
00:10:51
Speaker
i mean, I even had, you know, a midsize Rural Oak. for a long time. I think when was it was one of the first quote unquote serious watches ah I bought when I was a collected man. and And that's a great watch because like if you're trying to be original, is it ultimately the watch you buy? No.
00:11:07
Speaker
But there is an undeniable greatness about that watch and what it's trying to do, that if you see it purely for the object of design that it is then it's incredible. And so I think that's always how I've tried to look at watches or how I feel about watches. like ultimately it needs to connect on a very instinctive level I don't care where it's coming from as long as it's honest, it's pure, and it's a really strong position.
00:11:32
Speaker
And strong doesn't mean it's in your face. It just means that it's undiluted and you can feel that it's honest heart. I think the juxtaposition between ah Patek 3919 and the Erwerk is something that speaks to probably who you are as a person and how you almost maybe landed at the A1 design because those two couldn't be more opposite, but they play in this same field in
Emotional & Artistic Value of Watches
00:12:00
Speaker
an odd way. And I think that those two are just such special watches. A Royal Oak, of course, too, you know that's undeniable, but I think the juxtaposition between those
00:12:08
Speaker
Those two is really interesting. And I think it's it's kind of how you describe Enoma, right? You describe Enoma as it's animated by this powerful abstract concept. And while maybe the 3919 Kalatrava isn't and the Erwerk is, you can see the similarities there. And I'm curious to know how you see watches functioning as both art objects and something collectible.
00:12:36
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I think ultimately, like in the modern world, and this is not a new point of view, but I think it's it's worth reminding ourselves, like the only purpose that watches serve is ultimately to generate emotion, right? At the end of the day, whether that's a connection connection with the mechanical aspect or the design, they're ultimately there for that sole purpose.
00:12:58
Speaker
And I think it's a great reminder two brands and two collectors a lot of time of that because I think we can sometimes get caught up in ah you know endless pursuit of certain technical goals or or defining watches in a certain purpose but I think the base requirement that they need to meet and it's arguably the kind of minimum requirement but also the maximum requirement that we need to remind ourselves is does it spark and that level of emotion and that's where I think the parallel with art is relevant. It's sometimes a tricky parallel to make because they're ultimately functional objects. They're ultimately, you know, a lot of them produced industrially and whether you want to, you know, relate that to art is tricky.
00:13:43
Speaker
But I think they they come down, when done well, down to that same point, which is, does it have an ability to generate emotion? And for something that iss so personal, worn on the wrist every day, connected to something as you know, existential is the notion of time.
00:13:59
Speaker
i think there's a real potential when it's done well to to kind of transcend from purely functional into into that world of art. Let's talk about the art thing kind of for second, because the A1 lends itself to so many influences in the art space, right? And I think it's pretty fascinating how you've found ways to weave that into the A1, like the freeform table from Charlotte Perrion and Brancusi sculptures.
00:14:27
Speaker
And it... ends up creating something that feels so deeply artistic but utterly wearable, right? At $1,700, it's clear that this level of thoughtfulness isn't just about aesthetics, but also about the accessibility in the realm of fine design, because the aforementioned artists are certainly not in everyone's budget, but...
00:14:49
Speaker
And Enoma A1 at some point could be in everybody's budget, right? And I think that accessibility is intriguing because it transforms Enoma into more than just a watch brand, right? It becomes a gateway, in my opinion, to experiencing art and design in a tangible personal way.
00:15:09
Speaker
Do you see the A1 as an invitation for people to engage with kind of bold creativity that's typically reserved for the Guggenheim and art galleries across the world?
00:15:20
Speaker
It's funny you mention Charlotte Bounds Furniture. So when when I first launched and put on my website you know a reference image of the table um that the the watch is inspired from, I had um ah thought Arthur Tuchot from Philips reach out because the the link that I listed was at Philips and he was like,
00:15:41
Speaker
just came across this I'm curious, did you happen to buy the table and you're now basing it off the watch? And I was like, no, don't happen to have $70,000 to spare on a table at the moment. But it's funny, I think in a way it wasn't the intention.
00:15:58
Speaker
The intention I think was very much that I think there's a lot of experimentation in horology, but it's very much within kind of like watchmaking codes. And my thought process was there's so many other interesting things happening outside of watchmaking, whether it's in furniture design with Perriot's work, sculpture with Brancusi, or even much more essential things like, you know, the beauty of pebbles or river stones or the flowing of water.
00:16:26
Speaker
and I thought, you know, creativity in watchmaking is often so self-confined to playing on the same themes or pushing the same themes further. And there's nothing wrong with that. But I just felt there was this real opportunity for like a transfusion of some of those ideas, some of those inspirations, some of those forms of almost kind of perfect harmony or essential beauty that you can find elsewhere and to bring those into watchmaking.
00:16:53
Speaker
And I think that was the the core desire. But i think you're absolutely right that there is then a second layer that it then opens up those worlds. Those are the references to people who might not have otherwise considered them.
00:17:05
Speaker
i remember when i first opened pre-orders for the a one someone placed a pre-order. and in the morning after, first thing, um went out and but went to the bookshop and bought a book on Charlotte Berger because they were curious to learn more about her and her work.
00:17:19
Speaker
And that's the kind of stuff that I think is awesome because it allows you to, if you're creating a product that's trying to draw on a lot of different influences, combine them and say that there's richness in that mixing,
00:17:30
Speaker
I think if it can also enable you know people to want to delve into those influences and and discover about them and go into different fields, whether it's kind of like art or being more attentive to the nature around them whatever it is, I think that can be ah really powerful aspect of something like this.
00:17:51
Speaker
that That ultimately should expand your universe or your kind of like awareness of of what is interesting or what intrigues you. So that was a ah side effect, but definitely a ah welcome one.
Market Trends & Experimentation
00:18:01
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's so interesting. I think right now we're seeing more art-driven influence watches and brands come on the scene.
00:18:09
Speaker
And I'm curious to know if you think, I mean, is there something happening in the art market that you think is triggering the watch market? I don't think it's so much the art market that's impacting in the watch market. I think it's more dynamics in the watch market that mean that people are open to being more experimental or feel that there's ah there's a need to be more experimental.
00:18:32
Speaker
Because I think we've, it's a combination of factors. I think there's been a tipping point with regards to people feeling like they're always getting the same thing from a lot of the big brands.
00:18:45
Speaker
And so I think that that that fatigue has maybe hit and its kind of extreme point in kind of like recent years. I also think over the last kind of three, four, five years, we've seen a real acclaim for independence and independent watchmakers in a way that wasn't before.
00:19:02
Speaker
And ultimately, independent watchmakers represent, you know, what we touched upon earlier, which is that kind of like pure, undiluted, sometimes more visually extreme form of experimentation.
00:19:14
Speaker
often, or at least for the kind of like earlier generations, very watchmaking tide. You know, even something like MB&F is very unconventional for a watch, but really grounds itself in in watchmaking and the watchmaking skill.
00:19:27
Speaker
And so I think those independents have kind of opened consumers' eyes and opened some creators' eyes to, okay, people are more open to different point of views than we might have initially thought.
00:19:40
Speaker
And at the same time, consumers are ready for that. And so I think there's been ah kind of combination of those factors such that now people are like, actually, maybe there is space to be a little bit more daring, a little bit more bold.
00:19:52
Speaker
mean, I think with the A1, you know, even though it was a labor of passion, I don't know if it would have worked so to the some same extent five years ago. I think people would probably have been um much more closed off to something like this.
00:20:05
Speaker
um And then I think maybe there is some impact from from the art world as well, because I think art has deaf ah over a longer time frame has reshaped itself from something that is very specific and just arts and basically has kind of like blended the popular culture.
00:20:21
Speaker
mean, you look at the way basically art has become democratized either by virtue of you know, being more accessible ah to everyone or kind of like collaborations like the ones that Louis Vuitton do with kind of certain artists to kind of bring it into the realm of fashion.
00:20:37
Speaker
Like it feels like, you know, the the the realms of cultural production, whether they're music, fashion, arts, are kind of like blending into one another. And I think slowly watches is also kind of like coming into that.
00:20:51
Speaker
And I think you're in the future increasingly going to see, I guess, types of culture and types of material culture increasingly blending into one another and people seeing the richness and that kind of cross dissemination of ideas and inspirations of creatives.
00:21:07
Speaker
um And so I think that's partially also also impacting what's was's going on here, or at least um starting to. And I think we'll see a lot more of that in the future. Something I think that is interesting with the A1 and its relation to art is that a lot of art starts with a canvas.
00:21:24
Speaker
And each time someone goes to paint on the canvas, they get a different painting. In the same way, a lot of brands try and release new designs and new models, and they use different canvases. But I think what's really interesting is that the A1 canvas is here to stay.
00:21:40
Speaker
And you're going to iterate on it, but it's going to have a lot of the same design language. and I think it's great that it it's a watch that you've designed that lends itself to be so much more than just the initial release.
00:21:53
Speaker
Was that always the goal for you? Or did that just kind of happen to fall in place as the design took its way? It was definitely always the goal because my goal with the A1 wasn't to create something that's like one ah very impactful watch that kind of only has its impact by virtue being in that in that configuration.
00:22:14
Speaker
It was more about how do I find a form of almost like essential beauty by looking elsewhere, by looking outside of watchmaking? And if you look at the a one and visually striking as it might be, it's incredibly reductive and it's incredibly simple.
00:22:33
Speaker
At the end of the day, it's, you know, two rounded triangles tilted inside one another and kind of curved all the way around. It's you know incredibly simple And know if you have the chance to kind of like wear one or or hold it in your hands, there's something very instinctive about it.
00:22:49
Speaker
You make it sound simple, but it's not just triangles. It's the way that it's angled so that the light reflects on it in certain ways. And I think it was it's a lot more thoughtful than I think you're you're giving yourself credit, but I appreciate the yeah the underplaying.
00:23:05
Speaker
I guess what i was trying to get at is is maybe it's definitely a lot of effort for it to go in, but the end result The execution is very complicated, but the end result is deceptively simple, in a I hope in a powerful way.
00:23:18
Speaker
And so I think the the logic there was, if you're able to find hopefully something like that, that is very pure, has a timeless quality to it, then it lends itself to two things. One, it lends itself to being reimagined and readapted in many different ways and from many different viewpoints.
00:23:36
Speaker
And it also lends itself to hopefully you know aging well with time, because I didn't want something that was kind of very impactful now and then in 10 years feels a little bit outdated. so But I think that was also the nice thing is trying to get to something where I now see the A1 and I see that has many identities and many sub identities and many ah different facets of its personality it can lean into you know there's a there's a reduced minimalist a1 there's a ah slightly more maximalist jewelry like a one there's a you know closer to its natural rough stone like nature inspiration a1 there's all these different facets of its personality and i think the fun thing in the future in the next few years will be to play
00:24:25
Speaker
with those facets of the personality and try to try to
Design Innovations & Auction Success
00:24:28
Speaker
tease them out. um And I guess hopefully show to people, huh I hadn' hadn't thought about it that way. Or if you change these elements, then a different but side of the personality comes out. So that's um that's the goal, hopefully.
00:24:42
Speaker
I want to talk about the piece unique that you did for the Time for Art auction. It was an incredible design and dial, and you were inspired by two artists that kind of focused maybe more on the optical illusion side of things, Bridget Riley and Ferruccio Guard.
00:24:56
Speaker
But you took their designs and you made it into this super masculine avant-garde piece. And I would love to know why these two artists inspired you and maybe what the process was to take it where you did in terms of the design.
00:25:09
Speaker
Yeah. The focus for that watch was, obviously because of the theme of the Time for Art auction being linked to art, I kind of jumped at the opportunity of taking part because I was like, this is such a great way to show people that this is a part of our identity um and to kind of reinforce it even more.
00:25:28
Speaker
And I was really drawn to the idea of, you know, the A1 with the first series, you know, there's there's indices, there's a logo, it lends itself to readability as well. And I was very keen early on in the journey to show, okay,
00:25:42
Speaker
this This design, and and I guess the reason people have liked the design is not an accident. There's many different you know facets of the personality that we can pull out, as I was saying earlier. And I thought, OK, it'd be great to lean into something, and into this kind of world of optical art art. It's something I've always loved. I've always found kind of like almost hypnotic um when you look at these kind of like patterns.
00:26:04
Speaker
patterns that create optical illusions. There's something very childlike, right? you You find yourself in front of them and you don't really need to think about it, kind of draw you in. And that was kind of what I was trying to achieve with the A1, that kind of very instinctive quality. And I was like, that's a great opportunity to combine those two ideas.
00:26:22
Speaker
And ultimately I wanted to do so from a very simple point of view. So I took um essentially kind loads of concentric triangles where we space them just closely enough that you lose the triangles themselves.
00:26:34
Speaker
And we tilted all of them by a certain degree that you start getting these forms of distortion and abstraction in the dial. So that was the goal of like, how do we use something that's essentially very simple, the triangular shape, but then slightly tilt it play on, you know, smaller spacing versus larger spacing to start creating these kind of a slightly wilder distortions that play with the light.
00:26:57
Speaker
And it's not something I'd seen a lot. I think, you know, a lot of people do engraving, a lot of people do geochie dials. But it was in this thought process of how do I use those to create something that is distinctively my own and distinctively linked to those ideas.
00:27:13
Speaker
And I think the good thing with being able to work in watches is, you know, on canvas, as you know, Bridget Riley, Fruits of Guard work, you're ultimately limited by a 2D medium. And that can give you something.
00:27:24
Speaker
But here, because we're able to work with engraving and depth and light and lacquering, And ultimately, the fact that you're wearing it on your wrist and playing around with it, I thought it was an incredibly exciting opportunity to push those like hypnotic ideas um even further ah and basically get to something on the wrist where you kind of like stare at it, but you're also constantly playing in the light and and having fun with it.
00:27:46
Speaker
Well, it was absolutely spectacular. And I mean, I think it achieved what a $12,000 result, which is ridiculously impressive. Yeah, i was very happy. I got to speak ah to the owner actually um afterwards on on the phone and he was like super excited about it and and very happy. So i've went to a good home as well, which is always good to know.
00:28:06
Speaker
Good. Well, hopefully you get visitation rights. I hope so. I think the listeners would love to know maybe where you're headed, what you're thinking about and what's piqued your interest lately. So let's talk about the future plans of Anoma and the A1, at least what you can share.
00:28:23
Speaker
Sure. So I think, yeah as I said, the idea with the A1 is for it to really be a canvas for for experimentation in the future. So the focus for this year will be putting in place like a core collection for the a one by which I mean essentially three variants of the A1,
00:28:41
Speaker
that are stable, permanently available, um and not limited series. So we'll probably drop them in batches, but I like the idea of saying these are the three core versions of the A1.
00:28:53
Speaker
We stand by them. They're constantly available, and maybe in kind of three, four years, we'll update them. But this is like what we see is like the the most classic diluted representation of the design.
00:29:05
Speaker
Because yes, it has made different facets, but I like the idea of saying this is our core product, we stand by it and it's here. i think there's a nice continuity to that. And so I think this year um we'll look to release those three variants, starting with the first one, which will be in um early March. So we'll be calling that the A1 slate, which is just a pretentious way to say black.
00:29:28
Speaker
We've reworked the dial from the first series to be basically a vertically brushed base contrasting kind of engraved triangles. And then again, we're playing layers of lacquer, but this time all in black for a very kind of like monochromatic, subtle, pure effect.
00:29:44
Speaker
And the goal with that one is to get almost to like the quintessential archetypal A1 that's, know, as pure as possible and as subtle as possible. And that one will be the first one in the in the core collection.
00:29:57
Speaker
And then we'll release ah further two, I think, later on in the year, not sure when, but maybe June, ah that will be the two add-ons that will complete the core collection. And those will be more much more colorful.
00:30:09
Speaker
So maybe bring out the more playful, jewel-like side of the design. So we're we're playing with a few, but they'll probably be, yet again, for the pretentious terms, blood and moss, which is basically just red and green. and Yeah.
00:30:22
Speaker
But those those that I'm kind of testing with, and even having those three side by side, even though they're all the same, finishing with the kind of brushing, the engraving and the lacquer, um which I'm excited to share soon, even choices of subtlest color bring out the different identities. You know, the black is very stark, very monochromatic, very masculine. The red is super sensual. You know, it's it's almost kind of like blood wine color, but then it has these kind of, because of the engraving,
00:30:50
Speaker
these sharp glimpses of red that almost remind you of rubies and the emerald is much calmer much more kind of like nature inspired but it also has a little sharp bursts of color and so it's it's fun to look at them and be like yes these are very similar but i see very different sides of the identity in these and so i think that's that's the fun thing as you kind of slowly start to to build out these things and so i think that'll be the focus for the first half of the year And then what I like is, you know, you mentioned the term canvas earlier, is I almost see the A1 as like a canvas for experimentation.
00:31:24
Speaker
So alongside the core collection that will always be there, I then want to do kind of like much more maximalist, all out creative projects. they use the A1 as a canvas and they're probably made in kind of a smaller series, smaller batches by virtue of being, you know, all that more experimental.
00:31:41
Speaker
But those are the ones where, you know, embrace our even wackier ideas. All of them, I i guess, guided by ah strong concept, a strong part of the A1 identity that we want to to explore.
00:31:53
Speaker
So, I mean, to make it more, I guess, tangible, one that we're playing with is If I look at the A1 in terms of the basic shape, it reminds me a lot of early prehistoric tools.
00:32:04
Speaker
So whether it's arrowheads or hand axes. And what I always found cool about those objects is that the base form is very pure and essential because essentially ah a stone or a pebble.
00:32:15
Speaker
But then there's a hardness in the way it's been broken and shattered by stone. And so something I'm currently working on is I'm working with an engraver in the north of France who is basically hand- engraving a case as a first test, but basically shattering shattering the metal to get that kind of hardness, almost of as if an object was kind of aggressively by a human broken to make it into a tool.
00:32:43
Speaker
And what i like there is it's you know, it's definitely something that's not for everyone. I mean, the a one generally not, but it's even more so. And it's intentionally trying to, you know, lean into a different side of the personality, but reanimated by a concept.
00:32:57
Speaker
And I like that there's loads of way to to read it. I mean, hopefully the end result will be beautiful and kind of very... very striking, but there's also these interesting parallels, you know, between the the base shape of this, of the prehistoric tools.
00:33:10
Speaker
There's also the idea that, I guess, you know, an early prehistoric hand axe is ah a tool that's now become irrelevant and that now serves purely decorative reasons, which I would argue is also what a watch has become, right? And so there's interesting parallels there.
00:33:25
Speaker
just think bringing the human hand onto the watch and kind of artisanship is something I'm keen to do and and something I care about and you know engraving, I'm speaking to the engraver about this, is by most accounts, the earliest human skill.
00:33:39
Speaker
So even bringing that in to the watch when it's trying to link back to this theme of like some of the earliest tools used by man, that's that's something that incites me. And so I think that's an example of like one of the experiments that but we're toying with. i mean, we're we're still kind of playing around and experimenting with it with a case and and seeing what works.
00:33:57
Speaker
But those are the kind of things that excite me, you know, having ah core collection, that really speaks to the purity of the product. And then, you know, occasionally, maybe once a year, twice a year, whatever frequency it is, we come out with these slightly wilder concepts that show you, okay, there's many different ways to look at this thing or interpret this thing.
00:34:16
Speaker
I can't wait to see that because that is such a it's one of those things like if anyone could do it and have that idea, it's you. And I think the way you're going to storytell when that comes out is going to be so special. I'm just, I'm at the edge of my seat for that.
00:34:31
Speaker
Really excited. I'm excited. The engraver was sending me pictures of the tool that he uses to essentially shatter the the case because he's working directly in steel.
00:34:41
Speaker
He's basically edging ah a kind of like sharp tool then hitting it with a hammer. But like the level of aggression, even just looking at that tool, you can tell it's meant to basically shatter and break.
00:34:52
Speaker
There's something super like primal and exciting about that. So even even just, you know, photographing that, showing his process, getting under the skin of that will be ah will be super fun.
Reflecting on the Journey
00:35:02
Speaker
Oh yeah, I mean, that's that's going to be some insane content just to show people like how this is done because a lot of people would think that you know you're just putting this through a machine and a mold and it's coming out this way, but I think the handmade element of that is just going to be really special.
00:35:16
Speaker
For sure, for sure. How has your journey from collector to curator for others at places like Sotheby's and a Collected Man and now as a creator shaped your understanding of the emotional and narrative connection between people and and the objects that they choose to collect. I mean, I i think it's almost the most natural evolution in the sense that I don't think I ever would have been able to create if I hadn't first been a collector and enthusiast that kind of connected with these things deeply.
00:35:51
Speaker
And then curating them for other people widens your sensibilities as to why other people care about things. And so I think you then get to a stage of creation where you're both finely attuned to your own instinctive reasons as to why you're drawn to things and also receptive to why other people would care or what other people would prioritize.
00:36:14
Speaker
And I think both ah both those things are important, both those things are valuable because they're ultimately we need to fall back on. When you're creating, it's very hard to assess what you're doing and run it by certain parameters.
00:36:26
Speaker
And at times, the only thing that matters is like, do I like this? Does this instinctively speak to me? Is this something I'm like wildly excited about? You know, when I was looking at the first pictures of the the engraved case, I was like, there's something raw.
00:36:38
Speaker
And there's an energy here, which is just instinctively me as an enthusiast and collector making me go like, yes. And usually I find that if you find that and you have that reaction, you will find other people who feel the same way.
00:36:52
Speaker
And then having curated for other people, i think it's also made me fairly attuned to the things that other people can value or the way other people experience objects. So even for things as simple as you know um the design of the A1, at Collector Madden, I was able to see so many watch owners and so many, like I guess,
00:37:12
Speaker
well-attuned people who'd be doing this for a while watch owners that i got a really good sense of how they their their relationship with a watch and so something i was very keen with the a1 is i don't want people to buy it and have it because there's a novelty factor to it they wear it a few times and it kind of loses its magic it's consciously designed to be a watch that always adapts with its environment you can constantly rediscover it and It has many different facets of its personality because it should be the kind of watch where you slowly better and better understand it with time.
00:37:45
Speaker
you know, even the use of um ah lacquer on my dials, what I did on the first series that I'm now carrying through to the core collection is I tend to do a base finishing on the dial, ah brushing and engraving in the case of the core collection, and then I cover it with lacquer.
00:37:59
Speaker
What that allows me to do is I basically subdue everything and I hide everything, and which means that it's what would otherwise be a very easy to understand dial is slightly more interceptable. evolves in some lights. It's fully glossy and flat. In other, it's full two turn and three dimensional.
00:38:18
Speaker
And what you're doing there, you're essentially hiding. And that was intentional because I was like, I don't want someone to receive the watch for the watch to give itself entirely to that person. They entirely understand it. And then it doesn't evolve.
00:38:29
Speaker
And so I think the way people live with things, how they experience things, um and how they maybe fall in and out of love of things. I think that was like a lesson I learned a lot from, I guess, um being on the on the curatorial side and kind of helping people and accompanying them on their journey, is you really think longer term as to like how people enjoy these things, whether it's ah the proportions of the dial, the way it interacts, the even the weight of the watch and and when it feels right.
00:38:58
Speaker
um So I think, yeah, I can't imagine myself being a creator without having done those things before. um And it was never actually a desire to create. kind of just ended up almost happening accidentally as a result those two experiences.
00:39:11
Speaker
But they're very, very valuable. And they're almost ingrained in me in a way that I can't imagine doing what I do now without having had those. Amazing.
Q&A on Collecting Journey
00:39:20
Speaker
Mateo, let's wrap it up with the collector's gym rundown.
00:39:22
Speaker
You know the drill. You can answer these questions based on any of the things that you collect, whether it's the watches you previously collected, whether it's new collections for Noma things that you would like to do. Totally up to you.
00:39:35
Speaker
First question is, what's the one that got away? I'm going to go for a ah non-watch answer here, which is a big obsession of mine is Jean Prouvet, who's an early 20th century um furniture maker. And he made these chairs...
00:39:49
Speaker
chairs that you'll be familiar with, the standard chairs. And I think a few years ago, i think four five years ago, there was a small auction house up in Leeds in the UK, which had a pair of unmarked standard chairs in black metal with a kind of like mint green, very chipped kind of like seat and backrest, unmarked 50 to 100 pound estimate.
00:40:16
Speaker
um But, you know, looking at kind of like reference books, I could tell they seem to be something fairly interesting. Of course, as these things go, there's no secret anywhere. So I think they went, they ended up going for upwards of 10,000. But you know being the idiot that I was, I was like, i'm and ah I'll go up to 400 if I really need to. you know I'll go all out on these. So i lost out on those. um Yeah, I kicked myself a little bit.
00:40:42
Speaker
Obviously, couldn't have like gone that far, but I just fooled myself into believing I had a chance. How about the on-deck circles? So what's next for you in collecting? Maybe something you're hunting after, something you're working on?
00:40:54
Speaker
So something I'm looking at a lot more actually is jewelry. Because I think I've... I no longer feel such strong of a desire or instinct to collect watches in the sense that, you know, I've seen a lot of them. There's still kind of certain things I covet at, but I love the feeling of disc discovering like a whole new body of work or a whole new area of collecting.
00:41:15
Speaker
and so jewelry has been that for me recently. Some which I wear and and would like to wear and some of it, which is purely for aesthetic enjoyment. i kind of like to play around with and learn from. And so something i'm currently looking at is a lot of Elsa Peretti's work for Tiffany in the 70s. So, you know, she's most famous, obviously, for the the bone cuff design of kind of like very organic bracelet that kind of wraps around the the bone on the wrist.
00:41:42
Speaker
And I have been toying with, I don't know if I can pull it off, but I have been toying with the idea of buying a a vintage one. There's a few floating on eBay, mainly in Japan, it seems, for some reason. But buying a really beat-up silver one from the 70s.
00:41:57
Speaker
So that that might be next on ah on my list at some point. I think you go for it. since think I have to. Not that I'm here to spend your money.
00:42:07
Speaker
It's research. It's research. It's a business expense. Exactly. Yeah. um ill Maybe I'll write it off too. Exactly. How about the unobtainable? So something too expensive in a museum, private collection, just complete unobtainium.
00:42:21
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, i I'm going to zag back to watches here. where I think it's probably a watch that's in the Patek Fleet Museum, which is a you know as good as it gets, really. I'm sure a lot of people would would love to to do a heist at that place. And it is a Patek, I think it's 3424.
00:42:39
Speaker
So it's the, it's the asymmetric, it's the tank like asymmetric um watch designed by Gilbert Albert. But this is the white gold version with baguette diamonds on both sides.
00:42:53
Speaker
And it's just, I think it's the only one and it's indescribably good. You know, when I go in there, it's like, yes, the, ah first series 2499s and the world timers they're amazing but this one just tickles me different and whenever I'm in Geneva and i get the chance I get some kind of extra time which is not often but whenever I can i try to pop in to to say hello I love it I think if uh Roni is your heist partner with there's chance that one of you is not coming out alive yeah I think he'd I think he'd hog hog the ownership sadly yeah yeah
00:43:30
Speaker
I love it. How about the page one rewrite? So if money was no object and you could collect anything besides watches, what would it be? I mean, if we're going to go money is no object, I might as well go for the the most shamelessly expensive thing, which I say is architecture. I mean, it's something that is so wildly unobtainable now, but but the the dream, it would be incredible is I think out of the fields of design, architecture shapes you know, the way we exist with the world and live in the world more than anything else.
00:44:02
Speaker
And I think what's interesting when you when you visit, you know, the work of, say, Le Corbusier or Frank Lloyd Wright or or Carlos Carpa or other architects that admire, you go in and you you become so conscious that everything is designed according to like a worldview of like, this is the way people should interact with their environment. This is how people should live.
00:44:21
Speaker
And you're already kind of blown away by that when you're in them. But I think if you were able to be in one of those homes, live there day in, day out, have that essentially form the way you are, the way you interact with the environment, I think it probably changed your, arguably your whole psyche and life output. I think that would be an incredible, incredible experience. So I think probably like, a if I'd had to pick one, it's probably Villa Savoie by Le Corbusier, where I just, you know,
00:44:50
Speaker
I mean, impossible to buy. I think it belongs the French state now, but that'd be one where, yeah, I'd be very happy to take the lack of central heating to, to live in one of those. Yeah. Yeah. I think if you can afford that, you can afford to figure out the heating problem.
00:45:04
Speaker
Yeah, I'm sure. I'm sure. Get a small, possible one. Well, you find your, your way out on the West coast at any point, I'll take you to some of the Frank Lloyd Wright homes out here. They're pretty and incredible. ah I love that.
00:45:15
Speaker
How about the goat? Who do you look up to in the collective world or who do you think is just a great collector? So it's funny you bring up Frank Lloyd Wright because going to talk about someone called Todd Levin, um who was a client of mine and A Collected Man, who is an art advisor by trade. But the reason I love him is he collects very sporadically different things, but all of them, I guess, with the same approach of it's all about quality.
00:45:44
Speaker
he enjoys and lives with all of the items he collects, and he collects with... it's not about the money, it's not about the rarity, it's about the emotional connection to those things.
00:45:54
Speaker
So, you know, he lives in a Frank Lloyd Wright home, an hour outside of New York. He collects, you know, high-end independent um horology, and rare jazz vinyls. But at the same time, he's got, think, a wall framed with menus from restaurants where he's had kind of significant meals that have meant something to him. And significant doesn't mean...
00:46:17
Speaker
you know, a business achievement or anything like that. It's just mean meals that have meant something to him. And what i love about his approach is it's across categories.
00:46:28
Speaker
It's super genuine. There's a consistency in approach and it's all about enjoyment of those things, regardless of whether it's a you know, do for simplicity or a menu from a,
00:46:42
Speaker
a diner on a highway where he just had a a kind of happy meal. I just think that's like a really cool way to approach where, approach where approach away, if you were lucky enough to be able to own these things, you enjoy like the heck out of them.
00:46:54
Speaker
And, and, you know, the value becomes secondary. So I think he's, he's in my eyes always done it really well. Yeah. And I think the other thing to touch on with Todd, that a lot of people may not know about what he does for work as a, you know, ah art curator dealer, however you want to say it.
00:47:10
Speaker
Um, is that he deals with such a wide range, right? Because he's at at the hands of his clients of what they're looking for. So whether it's an old master's painting or something else, the the idea that he is so knowledgeable and knows so much and loves all that stuff, but then goes home to a Frank Lloyd Wright house that is so opposite of an old master's painting is just the best, you know, the the idea that is just amazing.
00:47:34
Speaker
Yeah, no, I agree. And I think it shows that it's about he can appreciate all the almost things back to what was saying earlier but he can appreciate all those things because they are qualitative in their own way and what was interesting when he entered watch collecting is he went straight to the indies and had a very sophisticated taste instantly because he was just applying the same mechanisms or the same thought processes that he had in art or in architecture or with his taste in jazz to the watch space i think that's That's a very interesting thing sometimes when you have these kind of cross category collectors. 100%. The hunt or the ownership? Which one do you enjoy more?
00:48:14
Speaker
I know you're meant to say the hunt. I think that's the the more kind of like refined approach, but I'm i'm all about the ownership. I love owning things. And I think it's it's not so much that I'm tied to like owning it forever. I just think for me, ownership, until you own something, you don't fully understand it.
00:48:32
Speaker
and or at least you there's a layer of it that you don't understand. And so I love living with objects for a certain period of time. And I think being able to to get under their skin and understand them. And then I'm happy for them to then pass on. I'm not tied to like eternal ownership.
00:48:48
Speaker
But for me, the hung is interesting and it's part of the process. But where I really get my kick is out of understanding something, living with it. And so, yeah. Call me shallow, but I'm all about the ownership.
00:49:00
Speaker
I love it. Most importantly, do you feel that you were born with the collector's gene? I guess so. I guess so. I was thinking back on on this when i was looking at this question. I would try to remember what the first thing that I ever collected is. And I think it might have been Coke cans.
00:49:14
Speaker
Because I remember when was a kid in my room, I used to have a stack of Coca-Cola cans. So whenever we went to like a different country or they released like Coca-Cola with cherry or something like that, I basically collect one, get it from the supermarket, maybe not even drink it sometimes, empty it out, and then just have a wall of Coke cans. Apparently, my parents were okay with this, but I think that's probably the...
00:49:37
Speaker
the first thing I ever collected and that was pretty, pretty early on. So I guess, yeah, the the gene was well implanted. I love it, Mateo. Thank you so much for coming on collector's gene radio today. Cheers to you and Anoma and all the stuff that you have going on.
00:49:50
Speaker
Everyone keep an eye out for what Mateo is doing. Cause there's some special things on the way for sure. Thank you for having me. This was fun.
00:49:58
Speaker
All right. That does it for this episode. Thank you all for listening to collector's gene radio.