Transcript
Speaker: race scal end Hey, this is Katie and you're tuned into Riskillians, a podcast about the hard, soft and surprising skills that'll help us stay afloat if our modern systems don't.
Speaker: I am gratefully recording in Jara country, central Victoria, where the white-necked herons and black swans and shell ducks in their little tan and green tux are flocking to paddocks that have been transformed into vast, sparkling wetlands after another drenching of spring rain.
Speaker: Recently, a bunch of folks in our community gathered in the forest to celebrate this season. Spring Rites, it was called. A mini festival dedicated to love. It was a perfect spring day, warm enough to bare your legs and shoulders and proud thatch of pit hair.
Speaker: I wove cornflowers into my plaits and pulled on a mauve opshop dress that revealed the peaks and troughs of my person long hidden beneath a chrysalis of winter wool.
Speaker: In my trusty work boots and sun hat, I set off for the party with a plate of lemon curd tarts balanced on the passenger seat, the sum of so many spring eggs and gifted lemons.
Speaker: The clearing in the forest where many of our community events are held was ringed with colourful bunting and wooden tables quivering in anticipation of food.
Speaker: And then the food started arriving, carried in the hands of those who made it, garden frittatas and kitchen ferments and rustic roasts and cakes of all persuasions.
Speaker: Everyone circled up around the fire to be welcomed, to hear how the afternoon would unfold and to give thanks for the food. Children and elders were invited to eat first before the rest of us stormed the banquet.
Speaker: After lazing about on picnic blankets beneath the hawthorn and blackwoods, licking our whiskers and listening to the kids shriek and scamper through the forest, conducting their own secret operations, the spring rites ceremony began.
Speaker: Anyone could stand up and say something, or sing something, or stage a spontaneous pagan engagement if they so desired. It was an opportunity to declare your love, in whatever way felt right, at the height of spring fecundity, and be witnessed by your community.
Speaker: People shared stories of parents and grandparents' past, four poured companions and the land beneath their feet. Lovers covered each other in poems while long-term partners revealed the squishy core hidden within their steady old trunks.
Speaker: I paid a wobbling tribute to Meg Magpie Ullman of Artista's Family who originally set me up with Jord, which was an extraordinary act of friendship that I'll never not be thankful for.
Speaker: And it's also thanks to Megan Patrick that we gathered in the forest at all, because they're the ones who came up with the concept of a spring love festival and then made it happen. Megan Patrick are those people who are always hosting parties and potlucks and fire circles and rites of passage, facilitating the shenanigans that stick our community together.
Speaker: They're the keepers of our seasonal social calendar, the initiators, the invitation sender rounderers, the ones who check the weather forecast and manage the RSVPs and string up the bunting and set the fire and lug the wooden tables down a gnarly pathway into the forest, and are probably there long after we've all dispersed, picking up the debris.
Speaker: It's a big job, and it's a real job, catalyzing joy. And maybe it's the kind of role you feel drawn to, either informally, in your friendship circles and community, or in the public realm, running workshops and events.
Speaker: If so, I hope that the conversation you're about to hear inspires you to take your calling as an intentional bringer-togetherer of people, Seriously, to see it as a much needed skill, because I think the medicine that we need right now is waiting for us on wooden tables, heaving with homemade food while the kids run barefoot and feral through the bush and the rest of us social media injured adults practice non-screen mediated human connection.
Speaker: Today I'm chatting with Kate Nottingham, founder of the much-loved Off Grid Living Festival and director of the 2027 Permaculture Convergence and Return to the Village Festival that's happening in April next year.
Speaker: Kate is one of those relentlessly optimistic individuals who can teach us so much about bootstrapping our big ideas and overcoming barriers, such as Dom bureaucracy, to bring a vision to life and just to get people together.
Speaker: She shares her story of segwaying from interior design into eco-village enthusiast and rules agnostic events coordinator. And I just want to say that if you love the sound of the Return to the Village Festival, which Kate and I talk about at the end, which will also feature a Raskillian's hub, holy shit, I just want to let you know that you can get early bird tickets for like another day, depending on when you're listening to this, until October 31st.
Speaker: So definitely take advantage of the discount if you're keen to come along. I'll pop the link in the show notes. And also just another note, our roosters were having a cock-a-doodle-doo duel for most of this convo. So i hope you like the authentic homesteading touch in the audio.
Speaker: Now, here is the wonderful Kate Nottingham being welcomed by the sounds of a white-throated tree creeper and pied car along. Happy listening.
Speaker: Kate, welcome. I was reminiscing about meeting you earlier this year because I had the pleasure of hanging out with you in person when we were up in Mullaney and i was thinking about that really cute little cafe that you took me to where I had the best mushroom spiked hot cacao of my life, which I still think about. we We met up ostensibly to chat about the permaculture convergence, but It soon turned out to be one of those whole life conversational romps where we just could have gabbed all day. So what really stood out to me was just how committed you are to real embodied change through fun and creativity and human connection. You're just such a go-getter and I'm very excited to hear more from you today on the airwaves. So thank you so much for being here on Riskillians. Well, thank you. I enjoyed our chat too. It was really great and the love catching up with people and having a cup up. It's sometimes magical things come from it. So that was really nice.
Speaker: Yeah, it did feel somewhat magical. So what kind of glorious spring things are happening in Mullaney? Well, we're just drying up after a mammoth amount of rain. um I think some areas had between two to four hundred mil over the week. So it's a bit steamy here today now that the sun's come out, but it should be um a really lovely week now. And I'm new to Queen, freshly new to Queensland. I grew up up here, but coming back to Malaney and the Sunshine Coast, I'm getting used to the climate again because I've been in Victoria for 15 years.
Speaker: So the humidity is probably going to shock me in the next week. Oh, I'm not going to lie. When I think of being further north, I mean, like, Mullaney seems to me to be the Dalesford of the north. It's just got such an arty alternative vibe and I'm just... Yes, it definitely is.
Speaker: Yeah, I get that really delicious, like, toe-curling desire to just be there in the warmth and the humidity. I know it probably wears a bit thin over summer, but, like, I'm sitting here wrapped in a blanket. I remember the days of we get...
Speaker: every now and then in Victoria, we would think, oh yeah, it's great. November, it's great. It's warming up again. And then all of a sudden we'd get another zero degree night and all the fireplaces all packed up and everything. And we're like, ah, God.
Speaker: Yeah, definitely getting lulled into a false sense of tomato planting security. I was very tempted to plant our tomatoes out, but it's like, no, no, no. got away yes, you've got to hold off. Yep.
Speaker: Yeah. I'm finding it really nice up here actually in terms of gardening because I did struggle in Victoria to get a good garden happening for various reasons, depending on where we were living. But here I'm just putting seedlings in the ground walking away and come back the next day and they're already twice as big. It's really, really exciting.
Speaker: Man, that is rude. I'm happy for you, but that hurts to hear. ah Yes, I can imagine. so I'd really love to wind back to your early years because your trajectory has been very fascinating. You originally studied interior design, but you found it wasn't quite right for you. So I'd love to hear, Kate, what drew you to design in the first place and then what pushed you away?
Speaker: Yeah, yeah. So um coming out of high school, i think I had that really traditional kind of spiel from teachers and and even my parents of like, you know, you've got to pick something from this list of careers and you've got to work nine to five and like, and like these are the only options.
Speaker: So for me, it was like, you know, going through the list and finding what the most like creative thing would be and something that, yeah, just allowed, you know, happiness along with work lifestyle. So for me,
Speaker: Those two things came down to interior design or floristry and I picked interior design um because I wanted to still make sure there was art in my life. um And, yeah, i just I took that on as my career path from 16. So I finished high school quite early in year 12 when I was 16, so I got to study early. And by the time I was 18, I was working full-time and for some some quite big interior design companies.
Speaker: firstly around the Sunshine Coast and then soon in Sydney, you know, in in some of the big high-rise buildings for big um engineering companies and things like that. So that was a whirlwind couple of years, but I soon found that nine-to-five and corporate environments were just not resonated with my soul. i just felt um just this draw to nature and, yeah, I started just thinking this can't be the only option. There's got to be more.
Speaker: Yeah, what kind of things specifically, if you remember back, because I'm just thinking of my uni days and it's like, what was it exactly that that made it feel so wrong and that took me on another path? So yeah I wonder, Kate, like, what kind of questions were you asking? What kind of friction were you feeling between that life that was obviously unfolding in quite a successful direction? What was it that just didn't quite sit right with you?
Speaker: When I worked on the Sunshine Coast, it wasn't too bad because it was more like smaller companies and personal relationships. And that was good. But as I started to sort of climb up the ranks and work for bigger companies in Sydney, like in a very corporate environment, I noticed that the senior designers were just so unhappy and even sickly looking, like they just looked not healthy, not happy. And I was like, man, if I keep doing this, is like is that what I'm going to end up like? And, you know, I was like, yes, it probably is. So I started researching other things and thinking about different lifestyles. And I always had like a element of hippiness in me, like everybody else would come to work in their like suits and corporate gear. And I would rock up in, you know floral dresses and all kinds of things. So I didn't really fit that environment from the beginning, but I didn't really know what I was looking for or what was out there.
Speaker: Until I stumbled across the word eco village and it's straight away. i was like, I know what that is. And I know what that involves without even having to read about it. I started sketching like what eco villages, what what I thought they were and what they could be. And then I did some research and found out they existed all around the world. and I was like, oh my God, that's amazing. I've got to go find out about these. I've got to go visit them and be part of this. So I sold everything I owned and bought a ticket to Scotland to go to Fintorn, which is one of the
Speaker: oldest, longest running eco villages in the world. Amazing. Yeah, i I love that you were struck by that one word, that idea that was encapsulated in that one word. Again, like I'm thinking of my my early days where this was kind of naturopathy for me, my friend handed me a brochure about a college that I could go to to study natural therapies. And it was just like, fireworks going off in my belly. So I almost went down that track too. i actually, my first jobs were in natural health stores. So my my brother worked for McDonald's and everyone my age was either working at like Hungry Jack's or McDonald's. And my brother's like, yeah, yeah, I can get you a job there easy. Like here's the application form. And was like, oh, yeah, don't be crazy. And I went and did my first jobs at at natural health shops instead. So I think like that early, you know, interaction with people who were about all about natural living and health
Speaker: also, you know, helped spark that later on, that interest in eco-living. And what do you attribute this this undercurrent of hippie, the sensibilities around health and ecology and nature, what do you attribute that to? Did you have parents who were a little bit fringy or edgy or someone in your life who seeded that in your mind?
Speaker: Actually, no. i've like I've been trying to pinpoint where that comes from and I think it's just something that's born in me. So my parents are fairly conventional. Like we grew up with them being really social and we always had parties at our house and it was, you know, that kind of upbringing. And my mum, you know, she liked tarot cards and, you know, those kind of things. Like a little bit she would dabble with things like that but there was never like a strong presence of like a sustainable um action or like any environmentalists in my life. And I think that's why i struggled early on to like pinpoint what this kind of lifestyle was that I was searching for because I didn't really have anyone um influencing me or showing me that direction. Yeah, it's so intriguing, isn't it, where those ideas come from in us, whether they they're there before we're even born, before even conceived, if we come in with some kind of, you know, like a gender in the best possible sense to realise something in our lives.
Speaker: Yeah, and I think no matter sort of what comes at you, eventually like you'll find that it might be later in life or early, but eventually it will come out. And another thing that really impresses me is when you tell this story, it's obviously a very abridged version, but what comes through is a sense of trust and confidence in the things that you're feeling and the questions that you're asking and the alternative that you're seeking. But did you ever have moments of doubt? Because you're obviously surrounded by people who don't mirror that back to you, those values? Like, did you find it challenging to have such different ideas about the world?
Speaker: No, i think I've always just been pretty headstrong. Like if I come up with an idea, I'm like, yep, that's what I'm doing. and And I'm off and I'm on that direction. And I just do whatever needs to be done to to make it happen, like selling everything I own and kind of thing. It's like, right, that's what I want to do. What are the steps to make it happen? And boom, boom, boom. And it kind of happens. And that's been a reoccurring story in my life.
Speaker: Hmm. Yeah, again, that's really fascinating because it's you know as someone who I just feel like most of my struggles are internal. They're like pure fabrications of of my own making, like these hurdles that I've got to surmount in myself just to do the thing that I know I want to do. So when you see other people, Kate, maybe like prevaricating or procrastinating on their dreams, like what do you think it is that's that trips people up and you obviously had a self-confidence about you but what do you attribute that to in other people like if they can't quite bring something forth that that's deep within them yeah I think it for me it's like a strong optimism like I'm very very optimistic so I don't let any sort of negative thoughts come through so
Speaker: um I struggle when I see that in other people because I can't really relate to it and I'm just like I'll just get on with it like or if they've got a really cool idea I'm like cool let's make that happen and I'll usually jump on board and and help them with the first few steps so that they can you know get get moving and yeah I do struggle with people who procrastinate and it's the one the reason that I left Queensland in the first place was because I was surrounded by a lot of lovely people with incredible ideas, but they just kept them at the idea stage and nothing ever came, you know, ticked forward. um And I i didn't really you know want to be around that anymore. or I wanted to be somewhere where people were making things happen and, you know, if they came up with an idea, they'd follow through with it.
Speaker: Yeah, so I think it's um a bit of pessimism and negativity that that holds people back. um And, yeah, they should listen to that strong positive mindset, whatever's coming through to help them get over those hurdles and and not be afraid of what might go wrong.
Speaker: Amazing. Yeah. If you could just like rub your get shit done pheromones all over the microphone and hopefully transmit that out into the world to everyone listening, like some kind of amazing go get a cat, that would be great. Cause I mean, that's one of the big reasons that I was so excited to chat with you today, Kate is just, is just getting a bit more of a gauge on what goes on inside your mind because you make big stuff happen and i just love your courage and that positivity which which shines through and it's sounding like there isn't um there isn't a disconnect from within and without like that is who you are on the inside so thank you for sharing you know some of your inner world with us because I find that so helpful and instructive
Speaker: So yeah back to the eco village idea and what grabbed you by the labels when you read that word and decided to sell sell all your things and and go and seek it out in the wider world. Yeah, if you could say a little bit more about what that represented for you, like why did it just land with such impact?
Speaker: Yeah, it's hard to pinpoint, I guess, but I think it was um like the alternative way of living was the first thing that like drew me in. Like I was seeing these natural buildings. I remember when I first saw like this handmade cob hut,
Speaker: It brought me to tears because I thought it was so beautiful and I had never seen anything like it. um And then i had read about permaculture and that really struck me as well. And I was like, oh, my God, like I think because I'm from a design background, like the way that system's thinking, I just really got it.
Speaker: And then from like an eco-village sense, um being with community, I was really curious about, like I hadn't been in that environment yet, like probably growing up with like a super friendly family and having parties and being very social, yes, but not so much like a community of people that all have a similar idea or are working on projects together.
Speaker: Yeah, like that sense of belonging and teamwork and having similar ideas around sustainability and wanting to make the world a better place rather than just partying and drinking alcohol and, you know, hanging out.
Speaker: So, yeah, all of that drew me in um and I didn't really know what to expect, I don't think. I was just so excited about going to to see it all and try it all. um And I signed up to what was a 30-day eco-village training course which incorporated a permaculture design certificate um in that in the learning.
Speaker: So, yeah, it was a way to really have a deep dive and experience it properly. And that was at Findhorn? That was at Fyndhorn, yeah. Yep. So I jumped on a plane, quickly hopped in at London and then caught a bus up to Fyndhorn, which was lovely. I was not interested in cities at the time. So every time I traveled, if I had to land in a city and fly in, I would be quickly out of there into a small town or an eco village. And so what did you arrive to? I mean, it's such an iconic place that people treat as a bit of a pilgrimage. And I can't really imagine what it's like just to rock up there, especially, but i don't know, like how many years ago that was? 20 years ago now. Yeah. So I think I was, yeah, 20 at the time.
Speaker: What did you arrive to? um My first memory is being on the bus at night to Findhorn and going through this like just gorgeous little a tiny Scottish town and all the houses were covered in snow and it was just like picturesque kind of setting that you could imagine. um You know, coming from Australia, we're never seeing snow sort of thing.
Speaker: um And then when I got to Fyndhorn, I think the first thing we do was was to gather in the communal hall um where they have have dinners and everything and it just felt like home. It was so warm and so welcoming and the people were friendly and interesting and um were talking about topics that I hadn't didn't have any friends that I could previously chat about it was just just like a homecoming it was beautiful yeah I can imagine that feeling it's again like similar I did the same kind of thing but I went to Tasmania and worked on small farms and just that that experience of
Speaker: things clicking into place that I'd been harbouring inside that I hadn't had a precedent a precedent for on the outside. What did you take away from your time there apart from a PDC?
Speaker: Yeah, a lot. um Every day was was something different and a different facilitator would would come in and teach us about, you know, different topics around living sustainably and eco-village tours and there was days where we went off to plant trees in the forest and and visit other projects around um the area.
Speaker: um So yeah, just so some you know hundreds of different little tiny things that I took away from it. But the biggest thing that still sticks with me today and the reason that I do the work I do now is that sense of community and belonging that came came with it. So our group was 30 people from all around the world and within about two days we were all just completely in love with each other and just through doing small little tasks together like we did group dancing,
Speaker: um We did massage. We did, you know, that where you gaze into each other's eyes and, you know, like tiny little one-hour sessions. And on top of that, lots of practical sustainability tasks as well um and different learning. But just that building up of relationships so quickly.
Speaker: and turning into a family just, yeah, really hit me. and i And for years i was like, how did that happen? Like what did the facilitators do to make that such a beautiful experience for us all? And, you know, later as I started running workshops and camps and events, um like that's always been at the heart of it, no matter what the overall topic of the of the event actually is.
Speaker: And so you mean like really emphasising those small moments of engagement and connection between the participants? yeah, the building up of connection between people and making people feel part of a community. um i i noticed like when people are surrounded by, you know, a group of new friends or a new community, they're just ah they're just on a high and like all this amazing stuff comes out of them um if they're made to feel welcome and and the environment is open to hearing their thoughts and letting them know that their thoughts matter and having people to to relate to There's just,
Speaker: Yeah, such a bigger part of people come comes forth when they're in that environment. Because it can seem quite invisible, like what facilitators are doing to to support that, but it is the art of facilitation. It is a real intention setting and I think a little bit of magic and something bigger that wraps wraps a gathering in that web of like of safety and joy and non-judgment and um yeah as someone I think who notices um you know has such a sensitivity to energies in a space and where I do or don't feel able to be myself it's like I really want to err on the side of being most myself and having other people feel that because it just is like nothing else when unfettered by all the usual kind of hang-ups that can fester in there and really make a horrible experience for a human so I absolutely know what I'm talking about
Speaker: I think it comes down to like that feeling of having a best friend. Like if if anyone is listening and has a best friend, like you just feel should feel so lucky too because when you're together and you just, you're completely being yourself, um you know, there should be more of that out there. It shouldn't be just when you're with that that particular person or that group of friends.
Speaker: I think we need to work harder on making, like setting that scene for each other. Like, in community and just, you know, anywhere, anywhere that we are making each other feel welcome and open to being, being ourselves.
Speaker: So I'm guessing that when you were 20, you were just sponging all of these learnings up more or less consciously, you know, like maybe I'm not sure how strategic you were in terms of like acquiring this knowledge. Were you like writing stuff down feverishly or were you just there to be in the moment?
Speaker: When I first came there, it wasn't anything to do with community and that was definitely not a word I was leaning into. It was all about like sustainability and eco villages from more of like a,
Speaker: small scale farming and natural building point of view it wasn't until I actually experienced Fintorn and then probably like left and had more time to think about it and and even as the years have gone on more and more um that I realized that it was that community building that I'm most passionate about and the other things those other the topics um are often like a catalyst for that like you know for example some of the natural building workshops that I've been to We're all on site. We're living there for two weeks together. We're doing hands-on tasks. And when I leave, i'm I'm so happy and I'm on a high. And it's not because I've helped build a house. It's because I've been connecting with amazing people.
Speaker: So true. Yeah, that's just the vehicle, isn't it? a lot of the time. yeah So you did visit other places, as I understand, in Europe as well. Did you ever go anywhere that you felt the the social side of things wasn't coming off as well as somewhere like Fyndhorn?
Speaker: Yeah, so I went to a few beautiful places that that was really strong and had, you know, community at the heart of what they were doing. But one place I went had been an eco-village which had shut down and then had become like more of like a family camp. And there was like a bit like this kind of weird, awkward structure um that was happening. And i would I could feel they were trying to bring back the communal vibe that was there when it was an eco-village, but they didn't quite know how to facilitate that.
Speaker: And yeah, at the time, because I was just getting into this, I couldn't quite figure out like what it was that wasn't working. And there was one guy still there who was the gardener from the eco village. He was a previous resident. And I had a bit of a chat to him and um tried to find out what his thoughts were, but he was quite angry that the place had shut down. And so he couldn't really express to me, i guess, what what it used to be like there. But I think it takes like a good leader or a group of people to know how to bring people together and respect people from all different diverse backgrounds and, you know, set a place up so that everybody's values are met and that there's sort of not really a hierarchy.
Speaker: I felt like that was missing there, like it was more of like a work environment rather than a community and so it had lost its heart. And have you seen, I'm sure in the subsequent years since you've been quite a student of villaging, do you see that sometimes these communities, kind of have death by bureaucracy or death by egalitarianism or death by like meetings every single day? Like is there a limit to how how flat and all-inclusive a place can be before it just dissolves into goo?
Speaker: Yeah, I think that it takes a lot of work to keep it going um and a lot of openness from everybody that lives there. So I've heard a lot of stories of ecovillagers not surviving um over time.
Speaker: And I'm not exactly sure what makes that happen. All of the eco-villagers have their own stories and why they started and why it didn't continue. i think if it started by, say, 10 very enthusiastic people um who all have similar values and then over time their personalities change or their lives change or they start to turn into family or they get new partners and just so many different things can can change. Others might get invited don't maybe don't have as much energy to put into the place and are freeloading and like all kinds of different stories I've heard can really impact the whole.
Speaker: But some of the ecovillages that have been going a long time, i'd I'd love to talk more to the people who have been there from the beginning to find out, you know, the ups and downs and what what have got got them through the hard times and kept them going.
Speaker: Yeah, and I guess the thing is too, we tend to see any kind of death as a failure, right? Like the the shutdown of a community or the dispersing of people who originally came together around a project as a kind of failure. But obviously, whatever happens, people are learning so much and it might be that life-changing moment in time for for someone who was there. So I just...
Speaker: I also want to de-emphasise my own maybe internalised view of things failing if they haven't worked out in the long run. Yeah, I prefer to think of them as like a successful chapter that has ended.
Speaker: Yeah, beautiful. Yeah. And I think if, you know, if say 10 people come out of it doing fabulous things from what they've experienced, then it's, yeah, it's still a success. But it can be sad to see something that people have put so much time and effort into coming to a close. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. So what was your next chapter, Kate, when you came back to Australia? Before I came back to Australia, I ended up living in France for two years at a a little, not an eco village, just a little farm um property.
Speaker: it was in the middle of nowhere on top of a volcano, like this gorgeous um French rural setting where I was helping with a project that combined art and eco living and ran a lot of workshops and everything there. So That was a very interesting two years but um the person who ran the place was a bit crazy and so that came to an end after two years and that's when I returned to Australia.
Speaker: And did you then start to implement some of these learnings from your travels? Yeah I had a little bit of a break from it all um but it was still with me um so I moved back to the Sunshine Coast and just lived by the beach and had a bit of a break and was still constantly thinking about it all. And, you know, my priority was to start an eco village in Australia, but I had no resources, no money, no nothing. But I always was saying to people, yep, I want to start an eco village. um You know, that was my my goal. But I did other things, you know, in the meantime, I went back into interior design a little bit so that I could get my finances sorted out again and get my life on track.
Speaker: um after traveling for a few years. um And then I started living in a share house with some friends. Some of them were from Melbourne, others were from the Sunshine Coast and they were all musicians.
Speaker: And eventually we all decided we wanted to move to Melbourne. um But I said, no like I don't want to live in a city again. What if we if we all move down there? Why don't we hire a big warehouse and turn it into like a communal living space? where we can so I could still sort of implement some of my ideas from ecovillages. They could all have a big space to jam and we could have music on the weekends and all that creative art stuff as well on top of it.
Speaker: So a space for everybody, I guess, to to enjoy their passions um and everybody was totally up for that. So that's what we did. And how did that go? Like how did that how long did that last? ah That was about I was there for about a year and a half and then when I left,
Speaker: It survived for about another six months, but I was doing a lot to keep it together. So it was tricky once I left. um So it was ah an interesting mix of usually there was 12 of us, between 12 and 15 people that lived there. um And when we got there, it was just a big, empty, old, dirty warehouse with just it had two toilets and a basin and everything else was just this big open area. And we arrived there in winter, so freezing cold. we had a fire and we each had tents that we set up as our bedrooms to begin with.
Speaker: And so it was very much like Bohemian living. And, um, we eventually, we all built these little three by three bedrooms out of timber and fabric. Um, and then the main area was like a big stage and huge, big like art areas and circus swings off the roof and yeah, all the fun things you could imagine. Um, When we built a little kitchen for communal meals um and everything was built out of things that we found on the street or pallets or crates, it was kind of like accidental sustainable living because we were all just living off no money basically.
Speaker: And what do you think worked really well in the warehouse? Definitely the fun side of things worked really well. So we had an absolute ball. Community building building um you know me wanting it to be more of like a productive sustainable urban setting didn't work because a lot of the people that lived there were just stoners who were wanting to play music so that made it quite difficult yeah that tends to to dampen things kill the enthusiasm a little bit least the motivation yeah there was about five of us there who who were very like productive and
Speaker: wanted to make the place like better all the time. And we built like gardens out the back and we built the stage for the music and we would run all the, all the performances and parties on the weekends and started our own local magazine. So there was like a lot of cool, productive stuff happening, but we were always kind of fighting against this like stoner attitude who just wanted to sit around doing nothing. So there was a bit of friction between like the two types of people. Okay. And so what was your next move?
Speaker: um So after that, i the people who were quite productive, we kind of got together and we were like, oh, we like we're ready to move on from this. And you know my big thing was to move to more of a farm setting and keep the communal living going. So...
Speaker: The ones of us who wanted to leave did and we went and rented a ah little five-acre property about, I think, about 45 minutes from Melbourne. And then the others stayed and turned it eventually turned into more of just a music warehouse um with nobody managing the finances. And then I think it was about six months later that that it all sort of fell apart. But for us, we kept things going at the the little farm that we rented um And we started um a new business called Creative Collectives. And it was all about um people doing amazing projects together. And our biggest thing that we did was called the School of Self-Sufficiency. Oh, nice. Yeah, and it's probably starting to sound familiar to people listening because maybe there have been there's people who have been tuned into your work since that time, right? Yeah, yeah. So um that was all about bringing people together for the weekend and um letting them dabble with lots of different topics. So often we would run eight workshops over the weekend and they could be anything from um like making sauerkraut, building rocket stoves,
Speaker: um like reading the landscape, um herbal tinctures, sometimes more simple um like hand skills like crocheting, just anything to do with self-sufficiency. um We would find facilitators who were happy to share their skills and they could have been new to what they were doing or they could have been experts. Like we weren't fussy. We just wanted people to come together and share knowledge and skills and build friendships and community. um And because I couldn't do things on a grand scale of an eco village that I wanted to do I found this was like a beautiful way to do it on a micro scale and people were still getting the same amount of beauty and community magic and belonging out of it, um but only for the weekend. And that made it quite accessible to people as well, because they didn't have to shut down their entire life and move to an eco village. They were still able to be part of um this kind of living that they wanted to to do. and often they would come to these workshops um And then that would like spark inspiration in them to bring more of that into their life in different ways.
Speaker: Yeah, it's sometimes those little nibbles that really give someone a taste for a thing that, yeah yeah, is there for the rest of their life. And for you, Kate, what was your relationship with these skills? Like, were you already all over this stuff? Were you learning on the go? Were you a little bit removed because you were busily trying to facilitate the workshops? Yeah, all of all of the above. So i was I was dabbling in like lots of those skills and had been doing like natural building workshops and yeah, learning how to make sourdough and sauerkraut and, you know, all those like little homesteading preserve type skills.
Speaker: um And, yeah, but I would never feel confident enough to run, to like to teach the the topics. So I took on the role of like facilitating the whole weekend um and then we would invite facilitators in to actually teach each of those topics.
Speaker: is that the role that you feel most comfortable in even to this day? Or do you think there are things that you could now happily teach to a ah group of people? No, I still feel more confident as being the facilitator and the person that brings everything together. And I think that works quite well because sometimes these experiences wouldn't be on offer to people without like someone like me making it happen like often if you're really passionate about a particular topic and you're awesome at it like you have to put all your energy into that like you don't have time to go put up posters all around Melbourne to get people excited about coming camping for the weekend and like it's I think it takes like a group of people to make these kind of beautiful experiences happen and I'm I'm quite happy and the role of the make it happen lady. Yeah, I'd love to pause on that because I think that we are in ah a time of really exalting the specialist and the expert and then the generalists or the people who like coordinating and like being the connective tissue of of that movement or those events. I know just speaking person personally, I can feel a little bit of doubt in that role because it's like you're not
Speaker: necessarily the keeper of the knowledge, you're the person who is laying the ground for that knowledge to be really well received. So how do you talk to yourself about like being the connector and the facilitator rather than the expert? Yeah, i used to worry about it a little bit in the early days, you know, worried that people would come along to these workshops that I've advertised and think that I'm going to be the guru. And I think I actually used to have a little spiel at the beginning and let them know that, like, that's not who I am. And often I would i would be a participant, you know, in in everything that was happening. But at the same time, I'd be running around, like, making sure that, like, there was lunch ready for everyone and that everyone knew what to do for camping. And, you know, I'd be all all over the place, like a little bumblebee. And then try to also soak up as much as I could from the workshops and and whatever was happening. But yeah, it's it was tricky because most of the events and everything that I've created is often because it's something that I wanted to participate in, but it wasn't happening anywhere.
Speaker: um So I would be like, oh, well, it's not happening anywhere. Let's just do it. Let's create it because other people will be looking for this too and not finding it. I like to be behind the scenes. And when we run eventually ran our really massive events, both me and my husband used to love sitting back once everything was organized and in full swing and just sitting back and seeing people having a great time and being like, and secretly sort of being like, yes, we created this. Like, how how good is it? But not needing anybody to come and thank us or prop us up on a stage and be like, and these are the people who created this event. We were quite happy just knowing that we had done it.
Speaker: Yeah, because you did step it up quite a few notches when you started the Off Grid Living Festival. What was that like starting to host more of a festival rather than just a one-off workshop?
Speaker: Yeah, that was a big leap. So we had done the little ones for quite a few years and we were going from farm to farm. we had a big trailer with all the gear that we needed and we did step that up a little bit in terms of scale and how often we were doing them.
Speaker: um But moving from there to the to the festival was ah like a big change and – gave myself a whole year to make sure that that would work out properly. So I sort of, again, I was just like sure that I could do it. Like I had never done, um you know, event management at university or TAFE or any of those things. I was just like, yep, I can do this. Whatever comes up, I'll figure out how to do it. I'll ask people, you know, what's needed and and it'll be fine. Like i can I can figure it all out. And it it did work out that way. But it was like a big learning curve that first year um of going from running a small camp to running a huge camp.
Speaker: festival. Can I ask you a nosy financial question about all of this? Yeah, sure. Yeah, I'm just wondering, like, how do you make this stuff viable? Because I'm guessing we aren't talking massive amounts of money by the time you remunerate people who are involved in workshops and even festivals. It's like,
Speaker: how did you get by um in all of those yeah so that was beautiful experiences yeah that the goal was never to make money um like it was good if there was a little bit left over at the end but often there wasn't so um in those early days I went on what was called the niece program which was um where you get paid to start your own business so you get you get paid the same amount as you would if you were on centerlink but um you have to prove that you're starting your own business and then you get um that payment for, I think it was a year and a half or something like that.
Speaker: So I had that, like that little bit of income coming through to support just living, just normal living. And then that way I could put all my energy into making these events happen and not worrying if they were going to make a profit or not. um And then sort of later, probably not until we had kids, we actually cared if we were making any money or not and we wanted to start thinking about um building a real house to live in and and things like that. But, yeah, it's never been the goal and I've always just trusted that things will work out financially. And yes, sometimes they have and sometimes they haven't, but we've always been quite comfortable living with no money. um So for a long time, when we first moved out to El Dorado, which we haven't touched on yet, um often we would only have maybe $50 for the week or something like that, and we would just make it work.
Speaker: Yeah, I mean, that is a an incredible life skill in itself, just being resourceful and making, you know, 50 bucks go a really long way. It does seem to change when people have kids and obviously the stakes get higher and so do the expenses. What were the kind of things that you and your hubby would do? Because I've heard people say, like, you know, if you're going to do a job, like do the least shit thing, if you want to try and be remotely ethical about it and also kind to your soul like what kind of things would you do to make a bit of extra money um so I still did a little bit of interior design actually and that helped with the first couple of festivals so I would spend about maybe four or five months of the year doing interior design and the festival organizing at the same time and then as the festival drew closer I would have to fully drop that that paid work to to focus on the festival and my husband was working as well sometimes he was working on like
Speaker: building us a shed to live in on the farm and other times he was was working doing um like arborist work, um truck driving, you know, all kinds of labour type work when when it was necessary.
Speaker: And so how did you end up in El Dorado? ah So from one of our school self-sufficiency campouts, um somebody attended and said to us, because we were renting um the farm that we were running the initial workshops on, and he said, oh, my friend is selling this farm in El Dorado it would be perfect for your workshops um come stay at my house and we'll take you out there and we were like oh okay yeah we'll come and have a look but like we gotta let you know we don't have any money so um he's like oh pay up front yeah yeah he's like just come and have a look just in case um we're like okay cool fun adventure yeah let's do it so the guy who owned the property he'd never lived there he was a bit of a prepper and he had bought it because um he thought the world was going to end and that's where he was going to
Speaker: run to if it if it did um and apparently he had quite a few of these kind of um bush blocks so we didn't actually meet him but our friend took us out there um and we we were able to sleep there for the night and really soak it up and we just absolutely fell in love with this bush block it's it was in the middle of a national park um down a four-wheel drive track and at some point during the gold rush in that area it had been cleared um and over the years of talking to a lot of the locals, nobody was quite sure why that particular block of land had been cleared. It was like it was in like a weird, awkward spot and didn't link up to any of the other properties that had been cleared. So yeah it was like this kind of circular 20 acres and completely surrounded by a national park um and just had two rickety old caravans on it and a tiny little shed. I think the shed originally was about maybe three by three metres. And we slept in there that night and there was a old fireplace in there so we thought oh yeah we'll be right we'll keep warm and then as it got later into the night and we were freezing we realized the fireplace didn't actually work because the the chimney was all clogged up so we just rugged up and snuggled up with our dog and stayed warm through the night and then in the morning when we woke up the whole place was covered in mist and we were like this is gorgeous we've got to figure out how to buy this property
Speaker: So thankfully it stayed on the market for another year. Nobody bought it, I think because of its awkward location um and other more mature people than us probably realised that you couldn't get permits to build there, which we didn't really care about.
Speaker: we didn't We didn't really think about actually. um So yeah, over a year we kept dreaming of this property and eventually we ran a crowd funder to to try and raise the money for a deposit for it and saving money when we could. um But then eventually, unfortunately, Ralph's um father passed away. My husband's father passed away um and he inherited a little bit of money that we could put towards purchasing the property and we were able to buy it and move out there which was really exciting.
Speaker: And when you run a crowd funder for something like that are you were you pitching it as the site was going to be used for the kind of like give back um workshops and things that you'd already been doing Yeah yeah so it was going to be the new home of the School of Self-Sufficiency which it was But we found that the format that we had originally been running, which was like one workshop one workshop weekend every month, um it just didn't work out there because it was three hours from Melbourne. The locals weren't as interested in coming to our workshop as as people from other areas, you know, closer to the city.
Speaker: And so we had to rethink that. um And we took a few months just to settle in and get the place set up anyway, you know, we were building outdoor showers and composting toilets and we were able to purchase this beautiful big teepee, big eight metre wide teepee, you know, set up outdoor fire pits, do a little bit of land care work to make little tracks through some of the more interesting bushy areas.
Speaker: um things like that. So soon after we moved there, I had read um Claire Dunn's book, My Year Without Matches. um And I was getting really into the idea of bush skills and survival skills and nature connection.
Speaker: I started dreaming up this new program called Wolfpack, where people would come and spend 20 days at the farm and be able to be part of lots of different workshops that were around bushcraft, survival skills and nature connection. And each Like the School of Self-Sufficiency, each course would be run by a different facilitator who would who would come out and visit.
Speaker: And so you weren't worrying about speaking to council or doing that kind of due diligence. You were just trusting that things would work out. Yeah, yeah. So it was all very much under the radar. And we knew from talking to other people that council could be an issue.
Speaker: So we did try to like market it ah in ways where they wouldn't find out what we were doing basically. um But we was we successfully had two wolfpack camps out there with 20 people in each camp and they all came to stay for 20 days. And like a dream of mine was to recreate what I had experienced at Fintorn over the 30 days. i wanted to recreate that for the people that came to stay. And by then I knew that it didn't matter what the topic was um from running the School of Self-Sufficiency.
Speaker: You know, the people are attracted to the topic, but what they leave with is something much more than that. um And that was the goal to create that. and it And it worked really well. The people that came to those camps still to this day write to us and say that it was life-changing and tell us about the stories of you know how their life has been different ever since.
Speaker: Yeah, I bet. And so on the audacity front, you know, just audaciously doing things and asking forgiveness, not permission, do you recommend that approach, Kate, broadly? Just because i think a lot of people, you know, a lot of younger people or even not so young people looking at places to live or ways to to gather folks together are a bit hamstrung by ah zoning laws and building regulations and insurance policies and all of the palaver that goes with the administration side of things like do you think it's kind of a good idea just to give it a crack and then you know backtrack if you need to i think it depends on what your priorities are like for us yeah we were happy to risk it and yeah because I think because we didn't have kids at the time and we knew that if we were to delve into this permit thing it would really hold us back and stop people from having the opportunities we wanted to create for them so we were happy to
Speaker: prioritise making it happen rather than doing it legitimately. But then it did come to a point where council found out what we were up to and then they um requested an inspection of the property and, um you know, told us we had to get permit an event permit and anyway, all these different permits. And then they pretty much indicated to us that even if we applied for the permits, we wouldn't get them because of the track into the farm, which was a four-wheel drive track rather than a council road.
Speaker: So yeah, it did stop us in our tracks and the farm then just became our home um and somewhere where we would gather with with friends and you know doing things that weren't ah publicly advertised. um We've invited another family to come and live out there with us for a like a short time. Various people actually lived there you know over the course of the times that we lived there.
Speaker: um But then we had a baby on the way and we decided that we should not run public workshops out there and instead use it as our home base and try and keep running our workshops elsewhere.
Speaker: We were supposed to have a permit to live out there too, but we knew we could do that more secretly than having lots of people out there. so there was a choice of like, do we do we go under the radar and have council just think it's our farm bush block that we, you know, have sheep at or something like that and we're not actually living out there or do we do we try and run the workshops and get all the permits? So Yeah, at the time we had started dreaming up the festival idea, which was to be in a public location where we could get permits. um So, yeah, we turned it into our little homestead after that.
Speaker: It's a rare opportunity to speak to someone who has organized so many things and worked with so many different people and, again, just made shit happen, the theme of this conversation. And I'd really love to hear, Kate, what your top tips are for people who are really interested in gathering humans together for these kind of yeah special cornerstone experiences that you've described, which can really change people's lives. Like what are things that you really focus on, you pay attention to as a host of these events, big or small, right? Like you've done everything from little workshops to huge festivals. What really matters when you're bringing people together?
Speaker: um I think removing that awkwardness at the beginning is is good and knowing that people relate to others in different ways. Like I've learnt over the years that some people like can't build or make friendships unless they're actually doing something with their hands or they have something else to do rather than just sit around and talk. And yeah, noticing when people are not um able to be heard because they're more of an introvert and creating opportunities where everybody gets an opportunity to have their say um and making yeah making it really comfortable through games or activities, just making sure there's always something to do, I guess.
Speaker: And what's your perspective on marketing events in this, as in marketing these events, not marketing events, um but disseminating the message at such a noisy time when so much is working against us algorithmically? Like what do you think is the best way to let people know Yeah, it's getting a lot harder. So when we first ran our workshops, we just found that people would just find out about them like really easily. And we would, you know, it would be no worries to have 30 people book in for a weekend. And we always did like social media, but we always, always went and did postering around the streets and cafes and, you know, health shops and places where we we would think people who were interested would be hanging out. So I've spent probably hundreds of hours postering the streets for all the events I do. And that really works. Word of mouth is great.
Speaker: um But now like social media where it used to be easy to spread the word is super, super hard. So yeah, lot more effort in spreading the word through just through people chatting with each other. And I'm going back to street posters again. I think they're sometimes they're better.
Speaker: Yeah, there's nothing like a little sign in the laundromat to pique your interest. Exactly. Or the back of a toilet door. So I want to do a bit of a fast forward, but I don't want to skip over any cool shit that we may have missed because I want to try and get up to speed like with where you're at now and what you're planning and dreaming up. But um is there anything else you wanted to say about like living in El Dorado, the Off Grid Living Festival, etc.?
Speaker: Yeah, there's plenty to say about those those things. Like the Off-Grid Living Festival went for eight years um and it just got bigger and bigger um each year and in different ways from, you know, how many people were coming to how many people were exhibiting and the topics changing and the trend around Off-Grid Living Festival changing. um I can touch on that a little bit. So, you know, for example, the first year that we ran it, the word Off-Grid Living was like very much like an underground alternative term
Speaker: um And the people that came, you know, were the ones who were doing it, um you know, doing self-sufficiency or living in a naturally built home. And they were coming along to meet up with other people who were doing similar things. um But then over eight years, it became almost like a mainstream topic. And we had people from all walks of life coming along to learn about, you know, how they can ins install solar panels and have batteries running on their homes and how they could build um like quite a conventional straw bale house and,
Speaker: um you know, how they can be more self-sufficient with their health and wellbeing, all kinds of different things. And, you know, one of my favourite things about the event was that often quite a few conventional people would come along wanting to learn about a specific thing.
Speaker: um Often it was like solar panels. um And then they would discover so much more at the event and leave with like a really alternative perspective on life and and wanting to to delve into lots of more topics that they hadn't really considered before.
Speaker: um So there was heaps of beautiful moments where um people from all walks of life were getting together and conversing on similar topics. So there was lots of change that came from the event. And one year we put out a survey to ask people, you know, what they'd learnt at the event and what they had done or changed in the months after the event. And some of the responses that came through were absolutely awesome and really gave me the energy to keep keep going.
Speaker: Yeah, I'm actually, I'm just thinking of a question that I'm trying to make succinct and intelligible. It's around running an event that is around sustainability and offering people these alternatives. And, you know, there's a real temptation or a real um consumerist agenda around just like replacing the kind of ridiculously gargantuan energy consumption of a normal home with like a solo powered version, which is just not doable for everyone on the planet. So with you being part of the kind of sustainability movement, the sustainability story in Australia, how did you not feel like frustrated maybe by people's
Speaker: um short-sightedness around like reducing their footprint first or how did you not let the festival become a more commercial kind of event where it was just about selling gadgets do you know what I mean like just around like keeping your integrity and trying to have a focus on you know what really matters and getting to the bottom of our lifestyle and making changes there before we kid ourselves out with all of the the trinkets Yeah, it was tricky. It was a tricky balance because a lot of people wanted to see that at the festival and the technology side of things did start to take over like a little bit too much for my liking at the end. Like the the festival kind of had a bit of a life of its own at the end. um And there was there was like a lot of that in the off-grid technology area. But I also made sure that there was 10 talks tents all around the festival with, you know, a different presenter on at each tent every hour. So there was so much goodness that you could gather from the event outside of, you know, just having a look around at the stalls and figuring out like if you wanted to buy this solar panel or that battery. So we always made sure that there was like personal stories linked with anything that was like starting to lean into like the two commercial um format.
Speaker: But one of the reasons we sort of finished in the end was, well, firstly, because we were completely exhausted and burnt out. But also i felt like I needed to take a break and rethink like well what the event was about and what format it would take um and how I wanted to to direct it moving forward because like it was all in my hands because it was, you know, i was our event and I was, you know, really the only one running it with help from um a few friends and volunteers. But I wasn't happy with it in the end and I could see it taking too much of a commercial turn.
Speaker: ah suppose my my bigger question is around what do you want to see in the world and if yeah if you weren't feeling 100 behind that direction of travel for the off-grid living festival like where do you want to take things what do you want to see in the world and how does that connect to the festival that you're running well that's being organized and it's running next year yeah so um i did take a long break from events um so i think or not a long break i took about and maybe a year off um and that's when we we made our move up to Queensland and everything so um at the same time I was like thinking how are we gonna how do we want to do this moving forward do I want to continue being an event coordinator you know festival director any of these kinds of things and at the time i was thinking no I should like ah maybe I need to refocus like this isn't this isn't how I want to keep going because it there's like very big risk of burnout
Speaker: when you're running events, like anybody who's listening to this, who runs events, whether it's like your local market or like a huge music festival, it's it's difficult. Like there's just so many elements that go into it. So many people to talk to.
Speaker: um It's a tricky, tricky job, but still very rewarding. um And then I had a chance link up with Ian Lillington, who you know, you've interviewed, lovely guy, permaculturalist, educator, um just wonderful people person. And they were calling out for a festival director for the next um Australasian permaculture convergence, which is something that I had followed um since my early days in Finthorn and getting into permaculture and I dipped in and out of permaculture groups and communities, you know, for my whole life. So when I saw they were looking for someone to amplify the message and bring it to the community as an event and in a new format.
Speaker: I was like, oh my God, like this ad is just calling me like this. They're looking for me and I'm available. Like I i need to follow this up and make it happen. You know, at the time I was like, I'm not gonna run events unless I have like a really good team with me and it's communal.
Speaker: um Otherwise I'm out. And they, at the time were like, we wanna keep running our event, but we can't keep going unless we have an event coordinator and someone who can bring it all together and make sure it you know it all works. So we were both kind of looking for each other and it just um all came together like a beautiful matchup.
Speaker: Yes, it does seem like a PAMI match made in heaven. And again, that was kind of why we were connecting in Mulaney just to chat about the festival. And I had no idea that you were taking it in such a creative and joyful and and different direction. And it impressed the socks off me. Like I i guess i I, don't know, like I really want to feel someone's integrity and heart. And I just That's all I got from you, like so much heart, so much integrity and and also just this audacity to get in and make it happen, but also to really to really bring in the human to human stuff, the connection, the skills, the hands-on, the practical, like all of the things that you've you've had in your backpack of amazing skills from the past, like bringing it to the Well, it's the Return to the Village Festival and the Permaculture Convergence. And I was just like, holy shit, this chick is going to like do something amazing for permaculture and this festival. um So, yeah, I'd love to hear like what your approach has been, Kate, to making it super accessible and enticing for maybe like new crowd.
Speaker: Yeah, so we wanted we wanted to make it um accessible and inviting to people from all walks of life and it who are like interested in permaculture or perhaps have been practicing and teaching permaculture for years. So some of the permaculture convergences that have happened um in the past have been, you know, more at conference centers and it's um some of the the elders doing talks and things like that and not so many hands-on skills or opportunities to all come together and um create and dream um as ah as a community and a village. um So we did a lot of interviews at the beginning with people who have been to plenty of um permaculture convergences and found out what the things that they loved the things they thought were missing, you know, what and what's relevant right now, like what are people needing. And, you know, the word village kept coming up and the convergences hadn't happened um for about four years. And so this idea of returning to the village kept coming forth and became the the theme of the event.
Speaker: And now over the last few months, like it's been developed and developed and plenty of conversations and amazing people from Permaculture Australia volunteering and working on it. So it's like a co-creation of you know over 40 people um dreaming up this idea.
Speaker: um and now we have over 100 presenters, ah workshop hosts, facilitators, people running forums, um hands-on skills and people the program is just developing into the most incredible array of um opportunities for people to to delve into while they're there, um as well as it being this incredible village where they can come and live for seven days, surrounded by people who are interested in the same sorts of things as them, people who are wanting to listen to their voice, um hear your ideas, hear your dreams for the future, talk about what the struggles are now um for people of all ages. and come up with solutions and dream dream up the next 50 years of permaculture together. Because it's a big anniversary too, isn't it?
Speaker: It is. So, yeah, it's going to be the 50th year of permaculture since um Bill Mollison and David Holgram dreamed up the whole idea together in 1977. And then the year after that, 78, was the year the first permaculture one book came out. So there's so many stories since then of how permaculture has changed people's lives. um and just, yeah, in the different amounts of ways. um So like in the early days, it was very much about growing food and self-sufficiency, but over 50 years, it's really turned into this practical set of principles that people are applying to all parts of their life. um Like social permaculture has become a huge thing. People um using the permaculture principles to direct um how they might wanna start a new business or set up their lifestyle or, you know, and anything. It's just a wonderful set of ethics and principles to apply to any part of life.
Speaker: Hell yeah, it is, yeah. And it's funny that permaculture is is kind of like middle age now and I really hope that the middle age spread is going to be the spreading and dissemination of those ethics and principles to more people. Yeah, we weren we're wanting this event to be for all ages and for that reason because of this 50-year anniversary, um a lot of the elders are but wanting and ready to to pass down the baton to the younger generations. And there's a youth group within Permaculture Australia who are actually running a next-gen space within the festival. um And they're completely leading the program within that space and bringing forth their ideas for the future. And they're wanting to link up with elders um to to talk about, you know, what their struggles were life like when they were at the same age and how they overcame them and, you know, what life is like now for them and how permaculture could help you know, their generation moving forward.
Speaker: So there's going to be this beautiful intergenerational um knowledge exchange, um as well as like a cross-cultural knowledge exchange where we're going to have a huge diversity of culture, lots of First Nations involvement and and sharing of knowledge as well. And just, yeah, really trying to take permaculture to the next level and from all people's perspectives.
Speaker: What are some of the highlights that are standing out to you in the program, which hasn't been quite finalized, but it's obviously coming together in a really beautiful way? What are some things you're really looking forward to? um I can't quite let slip you up what's on the program. So it's going to be released um in about two weeks' time, um early November, early to mid-November.
Speaker: um But like I said, there's there's over 100 presenters there and, um you know, there's some headliners that people are going to be really excited about, um sharing knowledge from, you know, years of experience and deeply touching on their topics and when they're presenting during the convergence. People who come to the convergence, you know, they often know the basics of permaculture. So the topics that we're going to be covering are really going deeper, um as well as giving people open space within the program to get together and design the next 50 years of permaculture together. um So, you know, if you're someone who
Speaker: loves listening to ideas, bringing ideas forward, you know has all these ideas inside of you and nobody to talk to them about, like this is the event to come to. like It's going to be something that I think people remember for years to come and we're hoping as well to like record lots of the ideas that come forth um in different formats to almost start like a little bit of a guide to the future and something that we can all continue working on after the event as well.
Speaker: I'm very interested in a guide to the future. Don't do well with uncertainty. So if you could just write that down for me, that would be great. um What are the details of the event, Kate? So the event runs as a four-day convergence um for the first four days. So the Australasian Permaculture Convergence has traditionally been for permaculture people. And again, it could be that you're just getting into it um or you've been doing it for years, um but it's an opportunity to all come together um and work together, share knowledge, share skills, dream up the future. um And that's going to be, um there'll be workshops, talks, um wellness activities, um fun activities, you know, all throughout those four days. um And as well, like plenty of open space for reflection and coming together as community.
Speaker: And then on the Friday, the whole space will transition into a public permaculture festival where people will come on the Friday night for the first permaculture party. And that will lead into a huge weekend of workshops, talks, and then more performance, um art, music,
Speaker: games, family activities, um everything you can think of to make something really super fun but educational at the same time and a place where you can feel welcome. Cool. And that's the 20th of April? is Does it kick off on the 20th of April, 2027? Yeah, so kicking off on the 19th for coming to setting setting up camp, ready to kick things off on the 20th and then through to the 26th of April.
Speaker: Okay, and that's in Woodfordia in Queensland? Yeah. It is. Yeah. So Woodfordia, um, for anyone that doesn't know is a beautiful site in Southeast Queensland that has always hosted the Woodford Folk Festival, which is one of the biggest music events in Australia. Um, but they are so, um, so well aligned with permaculture principles. Like everything they do is around building community, making people feel welcome, um making sure there's diversity within their programs, plenty of environmental values, like the whole block of land has been converted from cow paddocks into this beautiful, um you know, well-forested festival area. And each year they they run an event called The Planting um where people come together and plant thousands and thousands of trees each year to keep their 100-year plan going. Yeah, it's such a spectacular part of the world. Okay, so what I would love to ask you, Kate, as we come to the end of the interview, is just your perspective as someone who's been in the world of
Speaker: eco, enviro, sustainability, permaculture for for decades and thinking so deeply and living and breathing this movement as well. I'd love to glean your perspective on where you're at in terms of what are you prioritising in your life right now and where is your heart in terms of like change making and what's what's deeply needed in the world?
Speaker: Yeah, so I think we're in for a rough few 10 years and I think events like return to the village and other events that bring people together and off their screens and away from technology and back to the simple joys of life, um particularly about you know around making friends with others and connecting with other humans face to face um is a real priority for me. And I think it should be a priority for everyone because we can easily slip into this lonely world of technology And I think we need to push back against that. um Like certainly there's space for technology, for convenience and comfort in life, but to make sure that it's at a limit and that it's not taking away from the most beautiful things in life for people. So events like this that are really accessible, really open to anybody coming are just, yeah, something that we need more of in the world. And we're starting to see events dropping off the calendar for various reasons and struggling. these smaller events are really important. And I really hope to see lots of people sort of dropping whatever they're doing in life and making time for these beautiful experiences.
Speaker: Yeah, definitely. We need regular doses of remembrance just to counteract that stultifying force of technology and disconnection that is coming at us from all angles. It's like we we constantly need to be topping ourselves up on connection and togetherness. so thank you so much for orchestrating that, for throwing yourself in and making that happen and for joining us today and bringing that spirit of optimism to the airwaves. It's just been so delightful speaking with you, Kate.
Speaker: Thanks, Katie. My pleasure.
Speaker: That was Kate Nottingham, Festival Director of the Permaculture Convergence and Return to the Village Festival, which you heard about, with tickets on sale now. Gratitude to the generous humans on Patreon who are funding Reskillians as a community, giving me so much solidarity, goodwill and meaningful financial support. We're all hanging out at patreon.com forward slash reskillians if you want to join in.
Speaker: Thank you so much for listening. Catch you in a fortnight.
