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Episode 6 - We’re Back: Fringe Preparations, Cultural Futures and What’s Happening in Scotland This March + Laila and the Wolf by Hassan Abdulrazzak
28 Plays20 days ago
After a winter break, Podcast 13 returns with renewed energy as Ian and Vanesa reconnect with listeners and look ahead to the next phase of work at Venue 13.
In this episode, they reflect on the early stirrings of the Edinburgh Fringe season as thousands of artists around the world begin preparing their productions. Ian and Vanesa discuss how Venue 13 is already shaping its 2026 programme and how upcoming podcast episodes will explore the process of bringing a Fringe season to life.
The conversation also turns toward sustainability and the future of arts organisations. They discuss renewable energy possibilities at the Fringe and reflect on the rise and collapse of artistic non-profits such as the Centre for Contemporary Arts Glasgow. With the launch of Future 13, they share their hopes for building a sustainable support structure for artists developing work for Edinburgh.
Finally, they take a look at what is happening across Edinburgh and Scotland this March, highlighting theatre performances and exhibitions you can still catch. The episode closes with a reading from the Climate Change Theatre Action anthology.
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Transcript
Welcome and 2026 Season Preparations
00:00:12
Speaker
Hello and welcome back to podcast 13. I'm Ian. And I'm Vanessa. And it feels really good to stay there again. Actually, it's been a little while since our last episode, and I am truly happy to be back. This is episode six, and we're back at the recording studio with renowned energy. the news energy and Renewed energy, energy.
00:00:31
Speaker
Do it again? Yeah, i do want to do that one again. This is episode six and we're back at the recording studio with renewed energy and perhaps some conversation around renewable energy, all of which is here to be shared with you. And although we have been quiet for a hot minute, actually, I would say that here in Toronto, where you got an experience of it a few weeks ago, a very cold moon, we've been busy behind the scenes laying the groundwork for an amazing 2026 season.
00:00:59
Speaker
Exactly. i Actually, i did. There's lot happened since the last time we were recording. I went to South America. i went to Canada. In AI Campfire, our very 13-year production show has been touring nonstop.
00:01:11
Speaker
There is just so much to tell you. And whilst audiences are enjoying the amazing shows and exhibitions currently happening like in Scotland the moment, Artists are actually finishing their preparations for the Fringe, believe it or not, it's happening.
00:01:26
Speaker
Scripts are being confirmed, like venues are being secured. There's all this anxiety of like, oh, does everyone have accommodations? Does everyone have a venue? It's all happening currently in Scotland. And it is incredible how a lot is happening like behind the scenes and quite early in the year. So this is all we are this is the energy we're bringing in. It's like a lot is happening and we want to share it with you.
00:01:44
Speaker
Yeah, here at Venue 13, we're deep in the process. We're shaping the program for 2026, and over the coming episodes, we'll be sharing more about the exciting shows we have in the pipeline. So we're going to talk about programming decisions, working with artists, supporting some international companies and everything that goes into building a fringe venue from the ground up. And this is something that we've been talking about in previous episodes as well. If you haven't checked them out before, I recommend you to go and have a look at them now. and We are quite an alternative venue. We're a different venue. We try to be an all-inclusive venue. And we do have like lots of layers. We're like an onion, I think. There are lots of layers to Venue 13.
00:02:21
Speaker
Yes. And we're going through the process of cooking it. So it becomes like a delicious, either crispy or like sweet, like either way that you can go with the onion. There's multiple onion, but really today the message is pretty simple.
00:02:34
Speaker
We're back.
00:02:40
Speaker
First, we wanted to take a moment to talk about one of the stories that has really shaken the arts sector in Scotland recently. For listeners who may not be familiar with it, the Centre for Contemporary Arts in Glasgow has been a cornerstone of the Scottish arts ecosystem for decades.
Closure of Centre for Contemporary Arts in Glasgow
00:02:54
Speaker
The CCA was one of Scotland's most important contemporary arts venues, operating since 1992 and hosting exhibitions, performances, talks, and community programs. So what what happened there, Vanessa? So I i heard it from multiple sources. basically I started my master's this year and in arts, culture and festival management.
00:03:14
Speaker
And since being more immersed into this world, I was very lucky to be in touch with lots of people who were trying to share their experiences with the CCA about the news as well. This is quite sad news for Scotland. And this will all happen on the time that we were away.
00:03:30
Speaker
We didn't want to come back without acknowledging this that has happened, especially we're going to talking about theatre and theatre within Scotland and the world. and So what's happened ah roughly is that in the beginning of 2026, the organisation entered liquidation and permanently closed after failing to reach a sustainable financial position. Now there are people who have expressed the reasons behind this. There's quite a few posts online about this, but just as a summary, all the programming was cancelled and the staff were informed that their employment had ended. so this affected dozens and dozens of workers and collaborators. The building itself belongs to Creative Scotland, which had previously awarded the organisation like a multi-year funding.
00:04:15
Speaker
but suspending payments once they could not demonstrate like a financial viability. But this is also quite a touchy subject because although basically there are many drains of thought on this, so you do have, you know, the merge of art in a commercial setting, but also not all art is financially viable. Should art be financially viable? And these are very complex debate topics that, you know, that are being mentioned around in association with the closure of the CCA. Now, that response ah from the sector has been quite strong, especially from the Scottish Artists Union. Ian, did you have a look at the link? Did you to share with people what what they were saying about it? And if you have any thoughts on this as well, because I do feel like you have much more experience on running nonprofits yourself as well.
00:05:01
Speaker
ah Yeah, it it touched pretty close to home. i mean, the union described the closure as a major loss for artists and cultural workers and the wider creative ecosystem in Scotland, which is, I certainly agree with there. They, you know, stress that institutions like the CCA are not just venues, but they're a critical infrastructure for artistic practice and collaboration and public dialogue.
00:05:22
Speaker
It really highlights concerns about governance and transparency and financial oversight with cultural
Challenges of Nonprofit Funding in the Arts
00:05:27
Speaker
organization. Yeah. And, you know, while there are these calls for greater accountability and sort of frameworks to protect arts organizations from their workers, I can speak from experience that, you know, this is not always forthcoming.
00:05:40
Speaker
One of my many hats that i wear ah is running a nonprofit in Canada called the Center for Sustainable Practice in the Arts. And I've been part of it in in variety forms since 2008. And since 2020, we had been running a fairly large program. It really had us increase our staff. And then there's a lot of things around the funding climate. It was always sort of tight as we were trying to get this program to be sustainable, presenting multiple options for it. But it's ultimately like up to a combination of the sector and especially funders of whether or not they want certain types of infrastructure to exist.
00:06:14
Speaker
And sometimes the narrative changes from like, we're really excited about this type of thing. We really want to see this to support artists, to support like this agenda or this priority, the strategy that we have with how we see the sector going.
00:06:28
Speaker
But then sometimes that shifts. For a variety of reasons, right? It sometimes happens because of financial reasons. There's shifts in politics. There's shifts in priorities. Things on the ground change. And that that happened with us. So the program, which was around carbon emissions, wasn't quite what people wanted to do. So it became not a question of, like, how do we get this started and turned into a question of, like, how are you going to prove that you're financially viable to be able to move forward and do this? And it became what a lot of arts organizations, especially those who are providing services to the field, experience, which is like prove to us that you should exist.
00:07:03
Speaker
for this because there's scarce resources for it. um So we had to shut down the program starting in the middle of last year. They let go of our staff that were associated with that program in 2025, sort of abruptly, like abruptly and that we thought that the program was going to be going longer. We actually attempted as best as possible to keep the stuff working and keep people taken care of as much as possible because it's hard out there for it. But we're seeing this in other places. Just when you mentioned, oh, the closure of CCA, I was like,
00:07:33
Speaker
Why is it making news that California College of the Arts is changing and shutting down? Like it was in a very similar one. So it's like similar acronyms coming across. and You've seen that like in higher ed, this sort of scarcity, whereas lot of public funds might be contracting or be reallocated to different priorities.
00:07:49
Speaker
Those sort of supports aren't there. So back in where the the union is, you know, they they emphasize that artists and cultural workers are often the most vulnerable when these institutions are collapse particularly freelancers and early career practitioners who haven't built anything as a safety net for where they're getting don't have those benefits are going from gig to gig so losing such a large like cornerstone of the arts ecosystem in a relatively like small jurisdiction as scotland or you know
00:08:22
Speaker
especially Glasgow-based artists as well, like having this gone leaves a really big like vacuum. Like what's going to fill that? What are the opportunities for artists moving forward? So, you know, you don't just have the like 30, 40 staff members who are affected by the closure. There were concerns about how those redundancies were handled.
00:08:43
Speaker
And then... In addition to that, you have all of the artists who might be, you know, doing gig work there, might have an exhibition there and get paid that way, or might be, know, like arts installers tend to be people who have lots of hats on and they're familiar with the art side of things and then also do this this freelance work too. So you have those freelance contract workers and seasonal workers that are also often associated with a large arts institution that are also going to be affected, that sort of become a little invisible here as well, so that you don't know the full impact. It's not just what's on the balance sheet and and forecasted budgets. No, absolutely. I mean, when a place like this year disappears, everyone wonders, you know, what does that actually mean for the artists on the ground?
00:09:24
Speaker
You know, yes, it's a key, like you said, it's a key platform for experimental work, emerging work. With Uni, we did a visit to Tramway, for example, and to, you know, what they do as an organization, how do they try to vary their programming so they can give as much room and space and and, you know, they can actually host festivals and new work and and everything. But at the same time,
00:09:47
Speaker
It was very clear that, you know, they are, you know, one very large and very well supported, but, you know, large one space and the needs are so much more of of all the artists, you know, that they want bring their work to the light. Then you have, you know, yeah, this council has now fewer spaces for for shows, for exhibitions, for performances, for actually developing work.
00:10:10
Speaker
It reduces opportunities for ah for collaboration. the international exchange. So a wider signal about the the fragility of like cultural infrastructure that I do feel like the the CCA was like an entity. It's not longer been there. and This speaks volumes to a micro level, but also to a macro level on the situation of the world and the arts funding in general.
Future 13's Mission and Venue 13's Approach
00:10:41
Speaker
So this connects to something that we've been talking before this podcast. So the sustainability of the arts organizations themselves. know you've touched a few points there with your experience in the CSPA there. Do you want to add any more thoughts on this matter? Funding is unstable. Like it it changes from year to year. It's very hard to get operational funding to begin with and then multi-year operational funding and you're doing large applications for it to just like...
00:11:08
Speaker
know that you have funding for three years and there's not a lot of other places to do it there's a reason that like non-profit or charitable structures exist and they aren't corporations is because there are important things that we want in the world that aren't necessarily going to work under you know market conditions and even then you know there's lots of conversations that have been part of over the course of my career of like let's get arts organizations to act more like businesses aside from the fact that like they don't sell something in the same way and it's a little less tangible in that, you know, in Canada, i think it's 70% of new businesses fail within the first few years for it. So there's not a lot of systems set up for us to think about what it means when one of these organizations is failing.
00:11:54
Speaker
especially when it's doing a lot of service in a field. And there's not a lot of support, like for when you get into that position, because it's like, oh, you know, there's a stigma that like sometimes programs don't work. And sometimes we do keep programs or organizations running because we feel like we have to. And closing something is identified as a failure, even if it's outlived its usefulness. That's not the case here. But because of that, a lot of our systems are not set up for like long-term support.
00:12:23
Speaker
And now you pair this with like really steeply rising operational costs, you know, materials have gone up. We've seen the costs around the fringe go up significantly since pre-pandemic times.
00:12:38
Speaker
Like housing has like quadrupled in price. Venue expenses have all gone up. I mean, that's one of the reasons that we are trying to operate the way that we are at Venue 13. This is, we're trying to make sure that there's a very transparent cap.
00:12:50
Speaker
on what you're going to be spending for a lot of things because it's very easy, especially for someone who's coming in new, not to know all the little things that they're going to be hit with for it. And all of those things have been going up in price.
00:13:04
Speaker
i I think for the audience that doesn't know... Ian and I have a venue, it's venue 13, and we wanted to basically remove these barriers. So we spoke to, we did a bit of traveling with our show, our production, AI Campfire. We went to many places in the world and we we told them about the Fringe and people know about the Fringe. They are aware, it you know, it is the biggest art festival in the world.
00:13:27
Speaker
But oh we were like, have you thought about bringing your show to the Fringe? And they just feel like it's too much. They're like, I wouldn't even know where to start. And they genuinely don't know where to start. And it's not surprising because there's so many, again, so many things have taken to to be taken into consideration. So at Venue 13, we just decided to sit down, and do the hard work,
00:13:47
Speaker
and put one price and say, we will do everything as much as we can within the possibilities of within that price, apart from travel and accommodation. So that, you know, that the people that we're working with this year have all expressed that they're quite happy with the model, the fact that it's quite stress-free model and and that we are taking care of everything. And I do hope that more venues are able to do this in the future. So this is still, you know, a very new, very new for us, very new for the Fringe itself. But I do feel like, especially for first first covers and international artists, to have someone that has your production, your tech, your marketing, has your venue already, it's all there.
00:14:28
Speaker
It's a massive like stress off your shoulders. And it actually actually is increasing the international source coming in. Sorry, I just want to say that it's also interesting because it's a different model and it's inclusive of these things and people just aren't used to that. a lot of people are concerned that it's like, oh, it looks expensive when we put it together. And so you know we have, and anybody who's listening who's interested in taking a look at it, we're not gatekeeping this information. I, through my producing work, have put together like a fringe comparison. See where I took like what I know of venues or what they publicly put out there and sort of what like the revenue b splits are and the guarantees are. And then saying like, okay, now you add on your promotional expenses, your production expenses, that once you add that up, you can compare the venues. So you're actually comparing apples to apples as opposed to being like, well, this one's going to do a percentage of box office. This one's doing a flat fee. This one includes this. This one's doing this amount of marketing. This one's not doing this amount of marketing.
00:15:23
Speaker
et cetera. And the same, like, okay, all of ours, that that's not going to change for those things. You've got your travel and accommodations separate. And, but now let's take a look at like, yes, if you are an individual artist who's like,
00:15:36
Speaker
come to the fringe before you want to do the legwork you have the you know press contacts already or familiar with doing that work you love flyering and getting out there and promoting your show and all of those different things you want to do like be a one person band to get your show up you can do it in a really cost effective way where the venue space is your main expense for keep production cost low But once you start growing beyond that, it's really difficult. And a lot of things are not necessarily visible. And we're trying to make it so people can take advantage of our experience, right?
00:16:07
Speaker
I know i yeah you've you've been a resident of Edinburgh and going to the Fringe and involved in things for 20 years. i've been I've been coming to the Fringe since 2008 with shows for it. So like take advantage.
00:16:26
Speaker
I'm to take this one back to you, actually. was wondering if you wanted briefly talk about what we're trying to do with Future 13. So, yes. i I don't know why I froze there. Yeah, I think it's important to talk about funding. And basically, I'm not new to the world of funding. So i my experience from a past life was on startups, on tech, always asking for funding for new tech startups and looking for funding available.
00:16:54
Speaker
And then I moved into the arts. So now we are, you know, again, we're asking for funding. We're writing grants and the we are looking for collaborations and partnerships. and One thing that I noticed before going into what we're doing with Future 13 is that maybe i'm I'm noticing this more because I am learning more, you know, with uni and looking about
Barriers and Dynamics of Arts Funding
00:17:15
Speaker
funders and applications is that, yes, there are ways to apply for funding.
00:17:22
Speaker
But now I'm coming across more and more these funding organizations that you can only get funding by introduction. And I wanted to ask you about that. and I made a note to bring this up. And to say, what is your opinion on those foundations?
00:17:35
Speaker
Because i so I've always done corporate relations. I've always done media. I've always done PR. And I do feel like i I am, I am very suited to that because I like to know, and I like to know people and i have to know what people do But then encountering these foundations that they keep this money and they say that we're only going to give you money. So applications are closed. You cannot apply.
00:17:58
Speaker
It's always only by recommendation. how How is the population able to he access that money? And I do feel like there's some barriers again. to be, you know, it's like now you cannot apply as an individual. You have to apply as an organization. Even if you are an organization, need to know someone that will have to recommend you.
00:18:17
Speaker
What has been your experience with that? Interesting. I'll put it that way. the I mean, this has been one of the really interesting parts about working at the intersection of arts and sustainability is that I've spoken to many people at foundations and like with funders, private funders primarily, like I'll get to the public side of things.
00:18:37
Speaker
and how that factors into it in a moment. But we're spoken to a lot of people who have worked with or worked at private foundations and and funding entities.
00:18:49
Speaker
And, you know, they they fund art and they will fund environmental work. And we'll be like, what about the intersection of these two things? And how they're like, oh, we we don't know. So there's like not a lot of crossover. there They tend to be very specific. You know I understand it to the extent that they are, like they have a goal when they were set up for what these funds are for. And they might have larger impact and they might have flexibility in places where you can push against the edges, but they have their agendas, they have their priorities and things like that.
00:19:18
Speaker
And that has to do with you know how the money was set up, whether it's in doubt or however it's set up, is that there are rules around that. And and so sort of get it from there. But it becomes really hard, especially if there's not like new organizations showing up. We don't see a lot of people setting up.
00:19:36
Speaker
new foundations like this is sort of like from an era of support so we see more focus on fewer funders who become sort like outsized and they sort of then have a bit of outside sway and then sort of what happens because the only work that happens is the work that gets funded so if you have specific ideas of what you want to have funded that's what you're going to see out there so it's it's sort of inherently conservative and you see this too with the public funders i said i come back to the public funder side of it too But a public funders, you know, and even talk to the staff at any of these places, like they want to fund things and they will oftentimes talk to you about like, how could you fit? But they're bound by different forms of governance, whether or not that's private or public, you know, and different types of oversight and and rules by which they can move this money around.
00:20:23
Speaker
And because there's generally not a lot of trust for nonprofits because they're not profitable. So people don't seem to trust them with money because they're they're their job is to spend it but not make it.
00:20:35
Speaker
They're like, oh, you're just losing money. Like there's so much accountability and there's so many rules put into how you can use it and the type of word reporting that you need to do, which is really burdensome. I mean, that's a barrier for a lot of people getting you involved too. Is that you have a lot of admin that you're agreeing to do once you move beyond a certain size and you know, you're not a a star, like an artist, an individual artist or, or a small group that gets picked up by the right person for things if you want sustain that. So you end up now in this situation where you have a lot of artists, groups, organizations who are producing.
00:21:13
Speaker
who are great producers, have great ideas, might be pushing the field forward, doing really experimental things, but they're relying on fewer and fewer sources of income. Things are becoming more expensive.
00:21:25
Speaker
Ticket prices are covering less. Contracts are covering less. There's fewer ways to tour. It's more expensive to tour. There's other considerations of touring, like global unrest makes it hard to tour work around. We were Sharjah shaja and October, And now AI campfire, yeah, just got accepted into a film festival that's going to be in Dubai in a couple months. And we're like, well, we can't go to that because of conflict in the Middle East right now, in addition to the environment they're parts of.
00:21:55
Speaker
That wasn't quite what I was going for. was going for when there is this model that everyone can apply for. What benefit, other than just gatekeeping, sorry for the lack of better term, is there for an organization to say, we do not have open applications, you have to come recommend What is the benefit? What's the benefit is that their capacity and limitations of what they're doing, you know, in being part of various evaluation processes,
00:22:23
Speaker
processes like where we're reviewing grants and really reviewing applications most of the time the issue most of the time it's not an issue of do we have enough quality applications it's how do we say no to all the quality applications that we're getting you're just looking for reasons why you're choosing one really great thing over another really great thing so in a way it's gatekeeping that way then it's like we can't we don't have enough for everybody who has need Yeah, but at least that's more fair. Like, at least we can all apply for it.
00:22:54
Speaker
Yeah. and And I think one of the things that I've seen, and I know this has been happening in Canada, so we have Canadian funding. ah Well, no, the Canadian funders have heard me say this out loud. I'm a little wonderful. I feel like I'm in a wonderfully privileged position that allows me to speak kind of freely in there because I'm not, I'm dependent on them for program funding and project funding, but not like subsystem.
00:23:16
Speaker
I'm very much in a privileged position for that because of my faculty work. So one of the things that happens there, because they've wanted to like shift to make it more inclusive too. And this is on the public funding side.
00:23:27
Speaker
But so, but there's still barriers there too, like the length of time, track record, et cetera. And like, how do you get there? It's like getting your first job. How do you get a job if you need experience? And if you need the job to get experience, like it's a catch 22 where eventually...
00:23:41
Speaker
hopefully something matches but in that situation when you do start opening up they begin has this battle of like there are other organizations that might also be large and and powerful and like what i had a had well i'm trying to position my relationship with person I had above me in the field, like at an organization who was like, when we're talking about programs and we're talking about, we have a limited budget. It's not always about what we're taking away, but if we want to do stuff and we are hitting limits, we have to decide also what we're not going to do. And so it can make some of these organizations, especially because they have priorities, like some, they will say that their priorities are funding artists and they have all these funds for artists and then they'll have that. But it's also like, you know,
00:24:28
Speaker
they might be like, we're for opera. Operas are big, they're international. When it comes to public funders, especially national ones, it can be about like the export of cultural identity.
00:24:39
Speaker
And so they're like, we have to meet those goals, soft diplomacy goals at the same time that we want to bring in equity inclusion for it. And so we have people who have historically been ah excluded and we're going open it up so that they have access to it. But now we're going to get into a fight with the people who have been used to the very cushy support, more cushy. So going to very cushy is is very editorial on that because they will argue the other way and for it. But you'll have people who have been long supported and what are you taking away? And then you get a lot of people who are caught in the middle.
00:25:10
Speaker
who might have been really good at getting grants and have a good track record, but because, you know, they've had a good track record, they're like, okay, you've gotten stuff, we're going to give some other people a turn. And then I'm going to be like, but it's not something where it's like, that sort of attitude perpetuates this idea that like, oh, they've figured out how to do everything else. It's like, oh, but now what do I do? So I i know I'm talking to a lot of arts organizations who are like,
00:25:33
Speaker
As things shift, not because of just because there's less and there's more competition, but shifting things. And I can't be mad about it, but it means that now I'm figuring out how to do what I did and sustain what I'm doing with less.
00:25:46
Speaker
And I understand why it's happening and I support why it's happening, but I don't know what how to absorb that. Yeah. So it's like an ongoing dilemma.
00:25:59
Speaker
Well, do you know what? This has been, it went from a sad piece of news from the CCAA to a very in-depth conversation about funding, public and private funding.
00:26:10
Speaker
And you did mention ah to the audience that, you know, we have been accepted for a non-profit ourselves. It's going to be Future 13. We are still finishing up what we're going to do first, essentially. We do need to actually develop some building blocks for it. And I believe that this is what we're going to go for. And I think the overall aim is always going to be to support artists because that's yeah know that is the goal.
00:26:34
Speaker
We're trying to try to support artists and still remain financially and structurally resilient. We're going to try and obviously... advocate for pure transparency and try to find ways to enhance education and facilitate new work to be created for the fringe.
Sustainability Initiatives in the Arts
00:26:52
Speaker
I believe that's in a nutshell what we want to do with Future 13. We would like to promote accessibility, sustainability, and we also would like to, in in this world, especially You know, wrapping up again from what Ian said that ai Campfire, our production, got invited to a film festival in Dubai. Now, we're not going to go to Dubai because the world is not great just now.
00:27:15
Speaker
We want to really develop this idea that artists should be prepared to have some sort of a hybrid or, you know, digital plan B. So they can actually make sure that the work gets to everywhere, gets to the right audience and where it needs to get to, even if they can't themselves.
00:27:35
Speaker
Do you want to briefly touch on to anything else we're trying to achieve with Future 13? Do you? No, I mean, it's really about, you know, taking the approach that we've sort of designed around how we want our venue to run and saying like, OK, if other people want to do this, if other people are interested in this way of working outside of, you know, sort of the idea is how do we then create the tools so that somebody could potentially replicate some aspect of it that is successful or they're interested in. So trying to be very transparent about how we're doing things, about how we're trying to think about things, which is, you know, where the the future in the 13 universe that we're creating comes from. It's like the future oriented. It's like, what is the what is the what is the world we'd like to see?
00:28:18
Speaker
What is the yeah art sector that we'd like to see? We're trying to put it into practice with Venue 13, and we're trying to help other people put it into practice with Future 13 as a charity. Well sent.
00:28:35
Speaker
So one of the big conversations we want to keep exploring this year is sustainability in the arts. At the Frames, we see thousands of productions appear for a single month. The scale raises some really big questions.
00:28:48
Speaker
How do we think about sustainability in that? We have to look at energy and resource consumption during the festival, the way that the population of Edinburgh increases so dramatically.
00:28:58
Speaker
It doubles in size as a city over that time. We have been exploring renewable energy possibilities for venues, including different types of solar, seeing how we can generate some of our on-site electricity. Part of that is practical and for what it is. I have a lot of experience with that. I'll put some links into the show notes with a couple of projects that I've been able to do with solar over the course of my career, including it at Coachella and with a dance production here in Toronto. And, you know, the academic hat I wear is really focused on sustainability and sonography or eco-sonography and lighter production mode.
00:29:32
Speaker
And so, yeah, I think that's something that's important to us in the way that we're working. And I wonder if, Vanessa, there are some of those aspects that are starting to crop up as we're as we're planning for the festival. we We're were're already identified as the vegan venue. We've had a lot of climate programming. That's sort of something that like they feel a little bit of responsibility for.
00:29:55
Speaker
how are we doing that this year? Yeah, I think it's... So we are trying to i understand of what we want to keep moving forward and what things can be improved or exchanged or changed in general. Being the vegan venue was great a great feeling.
00:30:14
Speaker
We've had people visiting and supporting the venue from all parts of Scotland. We've had wonderful people who went out of their way to come to the venue, to have some food, to sit in the beautiful gardens, in the beanbags and enjoy the fact that we were able to be a vegan venue.
00:30:31
Speaker
The Climate Change Theatre Action Programme that we have last year amazing. really interesting. It brought lots of people that care. it got really good reviews. he got It got reviews that said, you know, everything that we we read, all the plays that were' read from them were very original and were very moving. Like you sat through a play every day, you didn't know what you were going to get.
00:30:53
Speaker
And each play left you thinking that you're like, this this really affects me. this I need to do something about this. And then since then we've been, we've created the podcast and we've been reading a play at every episode and we will continue to do so because there are so many plays and they're so short. i mean, they're really worth the read, 10, 15 minutes. And then it really, that gets you thinking for the rest of the day. You're like, that that play really, really touched me. We actually read one when we were at World Stage Design. It actually is in in one of, a think was episode three. We were in Sharjah.
00:31:28
Speaker
I had been on a long trip and I've not seen my cat for while. And we read that play about the cat, the space cat, yeah about the guy who went to a different universe to look for like a better life for his cat or for humanity.
00:31:44
Speaker
But he kind of knew that he wasn't going to come back. And you could see the play from both aspects, from the guy in the space wondering if the cat was alive and then the cat missing the guy from space. I could not sit straight through that play. I was in tears reading that play thinking, oh my God, where is my cat? Why am I in charge? This is rubbish. I'm trying to make a better world for the arts on the other side of the world. And ultimately my cat's thinking, where is she? That was awful.
00:32:12
Speaker
My cat's right here sitting in the couch, well, alive. But yeah, another place definitely makes you think. And we do want to continue to have the essence of what the Climate Change Theatre Action stands for, which is to to take action, to take responsibility and as much as we can. So what we're going to try and do this year is to look at every aspect of what but we can change, we will change, or at least we'll start having the conversations to consider changing them. Change takes time, it takes money, sometimes it takes a lot of conversations with the council but you know we're happy to have those conversations and and start exploring and see how far can we go and that will also take part on we know when we do Future 13 which is our annual kind of presence away from the fringe when we create workshops, when we create
00:33:03
Speaker
you know, tools, we're going to try and embed that into there. How much can artists push from their side? How much can venues be pushed or pushed from their sides? And so that, you know, working together, we can actually, be you know, get to middle ground and hopefully be more sustainable in general.
Cultural Recommendations and Performances in Scotland
00:33:17
Speaker
There's a lot about what we're going to do that we've been able to talk about in this episode. ah While we're talking about the future, there's also a lot happening right now in Scotland.
00:33:31
Speaker
If you're in Edinburgh or planning a visit, there are some great performances and exhibitions that you can still check out this month, as we've still got half of March. Vanessa, what type of things are you looking forward? Yes, so starting strong with the Festival Theatre. I'm actually really excited. You can tell I'm excited to about this. It's Agatha Christie's Death on the Nile.
00:33:53
Speaker
It's in the Festival Theatre. You can still catch it until the 28th. So you've got... 10 days, it's the 18th today, I'm not sure when we're going to edit this, but we're probably going to get it out as soon as possible so you at least have a few days to still catch to Death on the Nile by Agatha Christie at the Festival Theatre. So and it's obviously a thrilling like new stage adaptation by Ken Ludwig, it's directed by Lucy Bailey, and it follows Hercule Poirot investigating the origin during this luxurious Nile cruise, is starring Mark Hartfield as Poirot, and Glynis Barber and Bob Barrett.
00:34:26
Speaker
Now, are you a fan of whodunitian? I do love a good whodunit. I know when we were talking about this, we also both mentioned that our favorite show, as I was going say cartoons, our favorite show as children was Inspector Gadget. But we then identified that we were imagining different things. I was imagining the cartoon. So this is really wild. For anyone who I know this, so I grew up in South America.
00:34:53
Speaker
And I remember, i i did I could make this up, I guess, but I remember being young and watching TV and it was a film, like a series that it would come periodically in the TV. so And it was Inspector Gadget, but it wasn't a cartoon.
00:35:10
Speaker
And now I've Googled it. I promise you, i I Googled this. I tried to find it. And all I could find was a cartoon. I even Googled sort of like South American version or South American earths adaptation.
00:35:22
Speaker
But I swear to God, there was. And it was a series. And it was a guy as you know with his trench coat. And he was Inspector Gadget. And now I can't. And that was my favorite as a child. And then cartoon-wise, I really liked The Adventures of Tontan. loved Scooby-Doo. was like, Absolutely love Scooby. So yeah, I do love hood on it.
00:35:41
Speaker
My little ADHD brain, neurodivergent brain, is sad that I can't be in town because also at the studio theater, until the 27th, there's going to be a brief history of neurodivergence, right? It's a one-woman show by Fiona Moon that's playing at the studio theater. And it's it's she wrote and performed it. And it's ah designed to bust misconceptions about neurodivergence and highlight the experience of living with a hundred mile an hour mind, which is is my experience in life. I have that lived experience. So it's an embodied exploration that mixes, you know, personal autobiography with disability history, audience participation, facts, comedy.
00:36:19
Speaker
That also sounds like my type of thing, especially because I'm trying to understand my brain. So it's sort of a whodunit of that I have of my own for it. So coming from this neurodiverse team, I think we can both sort of agree that it sounds like that one's going to be Yeah, no, absolutely. i mean, am terribly undiagnosed. And it was really funny because I did ask a practitioner once. I was like, oh, do you do you think it's probably because I'm undiagnosed? I probably don't have it, right?
00:36:47
Speaker
She just laughed at my face. She goes, yeah. So the NHS. Anyways, yeah, I just say the food and it situation applies to a lot of things. Because in a way, that's why when I was younger, I was obsessed with house.
00:36:59
Speaker
like Dr. House. And essentially, that is a whodunit for the illness illnesses. And nobody would know what the illness was. And then the guy would come in like massive entrance, and be like, did you eat Cocoa Pops? And did you smoke a blunt?
00:37:13
Speaker
Look under his left finger. And then, oh my God, it's this disease. And it was just so random. But that's why I like House. It is a whodunit. But at Summerhall, we have Aphrodite Rogue, which sounds like a really...
00:37:29
Speaker
much work, I don't a contemporary adaptation. it's a comedy about love and certain features and the importance of trying again, no matter how pointless it may seem. A review from strangetown.org says that four flatmates are trying to make to do us like hearts and their they have broken their hearts and the climate changes disrupts hope of a faraway escape.
00:37:51
Speaker
And they have a stingy little flat and everything falls apart. But someone or something... It has warmed its way into each of their lives. It's kind of like there's this mysterious element there.
00:38:02
Speaker
And someone is messing everything up. And only one of them has noticed. So that seems like a great a great show not to be missed. That one is on Summer Hall, the 27th and 28th.
00:38:13
Speaker
So to me, this kind of sounds like a youth coming of age, feel good kind of theater. So we all need that now and again. And especially now with so much going on. yeah but Yeah. You're... You have the benefit of being local to it too, but I know that you just went to Dundee and to the the Dundee Contemporary Arts Center and you saw an exhibition called We Contain Multitudes, which if people are like listening to this, when we get it out, you know, we've just mentioned performances that are just running through the end of this month, but this is running for the end of next month through April 26th and it's free.
00:38:43
Speaker
What was that like? That was good. That was another really nice trip that I did with uni. It was at the, we went to DCA. We had a really nice chat with the people that run the DCA and they we got to learn all the ins and outs of how that organization works. um Then we went downstairs. fle We were having a big meeting upstairs. went downstairs to the exhibition. It's a free exhibition and it sort of features the work of disabled artists Andrew Gannon, Nenna Kallu, Daisy Lafarge, and Joe Lungher. So this exhibit exhibition explores the themes of identity within one's body, enclosure, and the support through. So it uses textiles, photography, sculpture, and it's kind of a, they described as a quiet political work.
00:39:28
Speaker
So it explores how to each of them, belonging means something different. And it leads to these to this individual challenge that they all face. ah But these challenges, they find shelter in the sort of collective work that each artist is creating whilst living with disability. So Nina Kalu is actually a ah Turner Prize winning art artist.
00:39:50
Speaker
And the so what what she did was ah she did the sort of like printings of her work and then she did adaptations of this in 3D into the the gallery. The exhibition invites visitors to consider how individual identities intersects with larger social narratives and to reflect on how visual arts can connect with personal and individual stories. Yeah. You've been doing, like when you've been going to see things, because you also have, separate from everything that we're doing on the subject of like the number of things that either us too, you've got VKind Arts in Theatre, which is
00:40:25
Speaker
You know, you do PR and marketing and consultation on that for things in general outside of the framework of of our collaborations, too. But you've got a lot of good content that you've been doing because you go see a lot of things that you then post on social. where Are you going to be doing one for for the We Contain Multitudes exhibition? yeah but Yeah, I think so. I think what i'm going to do is every time I do an exhibition that we discuss on the podcast, I will try to link the the Be Kind clip. So sometimes it's a longer clip. Sometimes it's just more like a shorter clip, just for you to get an idea of what it is. Sometimes I actually do describe the exhibition. But there are a few. Yeah, I went to the one in London, a few of them sometimes around the world as well. But I feel like if it's something in Scotland
00:41:07
Speaker
that you still have time to see and we are talking about it in the podcast i'll definitely make make sure that we can link that so that people get a better idea of what to expect when they they get to the exhibitions that's excellent
00:41:26
Speaker
for this episode's ccta play we are reading lila pines for the wolf by hassan abdul rasek Hassan says that this play was inspired by an article entitled Climate Change is Burning a Wolf Pack's Last Bridge to Survival by Taylor Hill.
00:41:44
Speaker
This year's theme, Lighting the Way, encouraged the inclusion of animals that might be inspirational in the fight for a sustainable future. So, I thought it would be appropriate to the seller of Little Red Riding Hood from the perspective of the maligned wolf who is struggling to survive because of climate change.
00:41:58
Speaker
In Arabic culture, the story of Little Red Riding Hood is known as Laila and the Wolf, or Laila Wann Al-Styom. I will be playing the wolf and Layla, grandma, and mother will be played by Vanessa.
00:42:14
Speaker
Scene one. This is how the story goes. Mother. Lila, your grandmother isn't well. i wanted to take this cake and bottle of wine to her. Oh, and Lila, don't step off the path.
00:42:25
Speaker
I'll leave things in the forest as you find them. Lila, yes, mother. I'll do everything right. Don't worry. But Lila was a liar. She not only veered off the path, she began to pluck the flowers and plants of the forest as she always did.
00:42:40
Speaker
This is where I enter the story. Good morning, little Red Riding Hood. Lila. Don't call me that wolf. I hate it when you call me that. My name is Lila. Good morning, Lila.
00:42:50
Speaker
And where are you going so early in this morning? To granny's house. And what's in that basket of yours? Lila drinks from the bottle of wine. Granny's ill. My stupid mother thought she could cure her with cake. And what's in that bottle you're drinking?
00:43:04
Speaker
Pretty awesome Malbec. Wasted on the old hang if you ask me. Want a sip? I wouldn't mind a drop. I live on the island over there. It's where I was born. I crossed what was left of the frozen water that connects the island to the mainland here. Let me tell you, it's getting harder and harder to cross because of climate. Is this a sob story? Because I really don't have time for a sob story. I don't suppose you could spare some of that.
00:43:28
Speaker
Not a chance. Are you heading to your grandmother's house? I could walk with you. Not before I pick some more flowers. For your grandmother, how fun. Hell no, they're for me. And so I leave Lila. She sets about clearing more of the forest and I go to her grandma's house. I knock on the door.
00:43:44
Speaker
Grandma, who's there? a weary traveler. Grandma opens the door. She's got a gun. i didn't mean to scare you. i was just wondering if you've got any scraps I could eat. It's getting harder and harder to get here from my island. I'm famished.
00:44:00
Speaker
I've got nothing for a scrawny-ass wolf. Except this bullet. She fires the gun, which is old and rusty. The recoil knocks her off her feet. Her head smashes against the bed frame. She is as dead as a doornail. I'm panicking. Even though I had nothing to do with her death. Any minute, Lila will be here. I don't want her to be traumatized by sight of her grandmother's cracked head.
00:44:21
Speaker
So I try to hide Grandma under the bed. She's too big, in the cupboard. It's full of clothes and piles and piles and piles of plastic bags. I've got to hide her corpse before Lila gets here. What do I do? There's only one thing for it, and this is where it gets weird.
00:44:34
Speaker
i eat Grandma and I put... Lila. Hello, Grandma. Hello, Lila. Why was the door open? it must have been the wind. Oh, Grandma, what big ears you've got.
00:44:46
Speaker
All's better to hear you with. But what big eyes you've got. All the better to see you with. What big hands you've got. All the better to hug you with. And oh, Grandma, what a great grim ghastly mouth you've got.
00:45:00
Speaker
All the better to kiss you with. And that's where she takes out her 44 Magnum and blows my brain. Scene 2. Mother, Lila, your grandmother isn't well. Take this cake and bottle of wine to her.
00:45:14
Speaker
Lila. Yes, Mother. Good morning, Lila. And where are you going so early this morning? To Granny's house. And what's in that bottle you're drinking? Want a sip? Yes, please. I'm famished. It's getting hotter every year, which means when the water freezes, it forms a much thinner ice sheet than in the past. It makes crossing from the island to the mainland tricky.
00:45:34
Speaker
You have to watch your step. It's exhausting. Boring. I'm off to pick some flowers. You've got to stop destroying the flowers. You've got to stop destroying the forest. That's what's causing the ice to melt.
00:45:45
Speaker
Let me tell you. I make some serious ka-ching out of these flowers. At least give me a piece of the cake, please. I go to her, grandmas Grandma. Grandma. Who's there? A weary traveler.
00:45:57
Speaker
Grandma opens the door. Before she has the chance to point her gun at me, I drop dead from hunger. Lila. Grandma? Grandma. Hello, darling. Did you bring me cake and wine? Lila.
00:46:08
Speaker
Did you kill the wolf? Grandma. I didn't touch him, I swear. He just dropped dead Lila. What are we going to do now? He's supposed to eat you and then I kill him and then the cycle starts again, Grandma.
00:46:22
Speaker
Well, he's dead anyway. Maybe if we wait a little, Lila. It doesn't work like that. He has to be alive when I shoot him in the head, then everything goes back to the start. Damn it, damn it, damn it.
00:46:33
Speaker
This means I'm stuck here forever. Grandma, then shoot me. What? Shoot me and free yourself. I can't shoot you. You're my grandma. You call me old hag behind my back. You think I don't know that?
00:46:47
Speaker
Lila, I call you that because I love you, you stupid old thing. Shoot me. No, shoot me. No, Grandma. It's the only way to save yourself, Lila. And that's when Lila takes out her.44 random and blows Grandma's brains out. Scene 3.
00:47:05
Speaker
Mother. Lila, your grandmother isn't well. You've got to go and kill her. Lila, yes, mother. Lila plucks the flowers as usual, but this time I don't show up because the water between the island and the mainland never froze. So she stays stuck in the forest, which is no longer forest, just a clearing.
00:47:20
Speaker
She plucks and plucks and plucks until there is nothing left. Lila to the audience. The last thing I hear is a cry from the island. It's the wolf. End of play. End
00:47:40
Speaker
That was weird. What did you think about that, Ian? I enjoy, I always enjoy weird too. I mean, the the the parable is very clear for it. It's also interesting, I think, in the context of things happening right now with you know everything going on. Hassan Abdul Razak, the playwright, award-winning writer. He's of Iraqi origin. He has other other things. there's hit And here I am now at the Arcola Theater. So some of our UK audience may have seen that.
00:48:06
Speaker
piece there and Baghdad Wedding which was at Soho Theatre in 2007 it's been around in Bay in Sydney and he did this script for A Night of Gram with which won the unsolicited script short film grant me too he's you know member a fellow of the Royal Society of Literature so a lot of his work ends up dealing with these these sort of like parables of these these these conflicts, these juxtapositions of culture. And in this climate context, I think it's ah's interesting to look at this and resource use. And, you know, it's interesting. i have ah I have a friend who we've talked a lot about. He studied fairy tales and how they've like changed purpose over time as going from
00:48:49
Speaker
like cautionary tales about going to the forest into things about the conflict between humans and nature ah and and turn into different things. Not entirely unlike we're doing with AI Campfire. So it feels fitting at this time and fitting with the type of work that we're doing. What do you think?
00:49:06
Speaker
So I'm just trying to unpack the three scenes. So the first scene, that the wolf is over because he was able to cross. and then Yeah. but But he was hungry. Then he eats his grandmother.
00:49:20
Speaker
boom And it happens again. and then they're stuck in this kind of like revolving thing. And on the second one, he manages to cross, but he's more hungry. And he dies. Yes. Hunger. Harder and harder. He doesn't make it all the way to grandma. And then on the third one, he doesn't even cross over because... He can't get there. He can't get there.
00:49:40
Speaker
Yeah. Crazy. There you go. These ones are always making you think. Well, I think we made it to the end of another episode. Yeah. Does it feel good to be back? I feel very good to be back. I feel like this short place, you know, continue to bring together voices from around the world and we want to continue doing that. They're responding creatively to the climate crisis. That was a very creative way. It was very unexpected.
Conclusion and Listener Engagement
00:50:01
Speaker
did not know where that was going to go because I hadn't read it before.
00:50:04
Speaker
The reason I haven't read it before is because I liked ah like the the emotion, the real emotion that it brings in me when I read them for the first time. So yeah, guess that's the end of the episode. It does feel good to be back.
00:50:17
Speaker
I agree. There's a lot happening in the theater world right now, from artists preparing for the fringe to organizations rethinking how we create and support work sustainably. And over in episodes, we will keep on exploring that journey that as Venue 13 continues to build the next chapter, to bring on new shows. We're going to talk about other festivals that happening around the world as well. I believe the next episode that we have, we're going to be over in Malta at Vanishing Acts. So we're going to talk about that. And a yes, thank you so much for joining us. And welcome back to Podcast 13.
00:50:50
Speaker
Yeah, thanks for joining us and and welcome back to Podcast 13. See you next time.
00:51:05
Speaker
Thanks for listening to this week's episode. If you've enjoyed the conversation, make sure subscribe so you never miss an update. We'll be having a lot more episodes coming up as we move towards the 2026 Edinburgh Festival Fringe.
00:51:18
Speaker
You can find us online wherever you get your podcasts. We'd also love if you could take a moment to share and review. It helps a lot of people discover us, especially if you think somebody would be interested in content related to producing work for the Edinburgh Festival Fringe and the Scottish arts community.
00:51:38
Speaker
It's especially helpful to get these on Apple. just because those readings help us rise to the top of the charts as the hybrid vegan climate theater edinburgh podcast you know it's a highly competitive niche but honestly it's a big help even if we are a very specific flavor if you've got thoughts questions or ideas for future episodes we'd love to hear from you you can reach us at podcast at venue13.com that's our email And across socials, wherever you may interact with folks at Venue 13 Fringe.
00:52:14
Speaker
Our back episodes and transcripts can be found on our website at Venue13.com slash podcast. The music you heard through the episode is by Dusty Dex, which we get through Epidemic Sound.
00:52:26
Speaker
Today's CCTA play was Isla and the Wolf by Hassan Abdul Razak. Until next time, thanks for tuning in and we'll be back with another episode soon.