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Episode 3 – teamLab Phenomena Abu Dhabi and NYUAD + Earth Duet by E.M. Lewis
22 Plays5 days ago
In this episode, Ian and Vanesa take you on the next stage of their UAE adventure! After World Stage Design 2025 in Sharjah, Ian delivered a talk at NYU Abu Dhabi, exploring “Somewhere in Time: Ghosts, People, Sites, and Signals.”
Together they reflect on Ian's presentation, touring the university’s incredible Red Theater, Blue Hall, and Black Box, and engaging with the curiosity around sustainable, hybrid, and ecological design.
Plus, they share their experience at TeamLab Phenomena Abu Dhabi, a 17,000 m² immersive art space where light, water, sound, and motion respond to your presence whilst sparking ideas about participation, performance, and the future of stage design.
All this as well as bringing you the reading of their weekly CCTA play. This week you heard Earth Duet, by E.M. Lewis.
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Transcript
Introduction and Highlights from World Stage Design 2025
00:00:17
Speaker
Hello and welcome back to podcast 13 episode three. I'm Ian. And I'm Vanessa. Thank you for joining us again. Whether you've been following since episode one or just discovered us, we're so glad you're here.
00:00:28
Speaker
In our last episode, we shared highlights from World Stage Design 2025 in Sharjah in the UAE. It was an extraordinary week surrounded by artists and designers from around the world.
00:00:39
Speaker
But our time in the UAE didn't end there. After the festival, Ian was invited to give a talk at and NYU Abu Dhabi and I joined him down the coast for the trip, which turned into one of the most unforgettable experiences where everything we've been talking about at WSD suddenly clicked into focus.
00:00:55
Speaker
Exactly. The talk, the conversations at NYU, and our visit to TeamLab Phenomena right after it, they all connected. So this week, we're reflecting on that journey from the research symposium in Sharjah to a digital landscape in Abu Dhabi, and what it tells us about the kind of work we're supporting through Venue 13 and Future 13.
Exploring Earth Duet and Finite Resources
00:01:15
Speaker
But before we get into that conversation, we're going to go through this week's CCTA play. This week, we're going to be reading Earth Duet by E.M. m Lewis. There's a poem by Emily Dickinson that goes, In this short life that only lasts an hour, how much, how little is within our power?
00:01:32
Speaker
Earth Duet is asking a similar question, but specifically about the natural world. It's for two players. And here it is.
00:01:43
Speaker
Everything. Everything. Everything. Ripe red strawberries. Golden. Golden. Peaches dripping. Sit up down your. Chin.
00:01:55
Speaker
Blueberries. The blueberries. Things that are. Fruit. Things that are. Sweet. Also. Also. Things that are Tall.
00:02:06
Speaker
Elephants and. Trees. Fur. Cherry. Oak. Things that are Tall. Fathers and. Sunflowers. Skyscrapers.
00:02:17
Speaker
Mountains. Everything goes. It goes. Finite. We are. Finite. All the people. All the things. We can't hold on to. We want to hold on to.
00:02:30
Speaker
We want so badly to hold on to Slippery. Time. Tick. Tick. Tick. Time. Tick. Tick. Tick. Slipping.
00:02:42
Speaker
Through our fingers. Makes it hard to think about endings. I have trouble thinking about endings. Endings are hard. We like beginnings better.
00:02:52
Speaker
Babies. Baby showers. Marigold seeds. Chocolate chip cookie dough. Sunrise. Tick, tick, tick. Sunset. We want so badly to hold on to... Time. Each other.
00:03:07
Speaker
Memories. Things we love. World we love. Going... Things are always. Going. Grieves they're. Going. What can we do? What can we do?
00:03:18
Speaker
What can we do? What can we do? Change the way the world works? No. Change the way. the world works no Change the way. Change the way Change the way we work upon the world. Change from short-term thinking to. Long-term thinking. They've been cutting off the branch we're sitting on.
00:03:41
Speaker
We've been pretending all the resources. All the resources. All the beautiful, useful resources. Will last forever. So we've used them and. Used them.
00:03:52
Speaker
Used them. Finite. This world is. Finite. Everything here is. Finite. Things run out. There are a lot of people here.
00:04:03
Speaker
Here on this earth. Using. Wasting. Not thinking about tomorrow. Tick, tick, tick. Scary to think about. Tomorrow. Endings.
00:04:14
Speaker
Scary to think about. So we don't. So we've acted like. Everything and. Everyone. Will last. Forever. But it. But it won't. Not the way we' are going we're going. way we're going.
00:04:29
Speaker
Is it possible for us to Change the narrative? Is it possible for us to. Change the world? What is our power here? What do we want our power to be?
00:04:42
Speaker
Is it possible for us to change the way the... World works? The way we work up the world. We can't fix things we've broken.
00:04:53
Speaker
do we want to? Do we think it's important to? Do we think it's our responsibility to? Do we think it's somebody else's responsibility? Anyone else's responsibility to?
00:05:03
Speaker
Change the world. Or do we think it's ours? Do we think the time to change is some other time? Or now? Do we care about the world we live in? Do we want to be around tomorrow?
00:05:17
Speaker
And tomorrow. And to tomorrow after that? After we come and go. After for our children come and go And their children come and go. If we even have children.
00:05:28
Speaker
It's not about our children. It's all about children. Having a world tomorrow. We have the power to make that happen. How? Change the way we work upon the world.
00:05:41
Speaker
Let's change the way we work upon the world. Let's institute some... Long-term thinking. Let's take care of what we've got. Let's be good stewards of the Earth.
00:05:52
Speaker
Of this beautiful Earth. Of this sweet blue planet Earth. Right now it's the... Only one we have. End of play. E.M. Lewis is an award-winning playwright, teacher, and opera librettist. Her work has been produced around the world and published by Samuel French.
00:06:11
Speaker
She received the Steinberg Award and the Primus Prize from the American Theater Critics Association, the Ted Smith Award from the L.A. Drama Critics Circle, a Hodder Fellowship from Princeton University, and a place in the Mellon Foundation's National Playwright Presidency Program.
00:06:26
Speaker
She lives on her family's farm in Oregon.
00:06:35
Speaker
So we left
Cultural Investment and Arts Facilities at NYU Abu Dhabi
00:06:37
Speaker
Sharjah in the middle of world stage design, busting from all the ideas about sustainability and performance design. Then we both found ourselves heading to Abu Dhabi for your talk at NUAD.
00:06:49
Speaker
For the audience, NYU Abu Dhabi is at the liberal arts campus located in Saadijat Island, Abu Dhabi, bringing together students from more than 120 countries in a purpose-built environment, blending innovation with tradition.
00:07:05
Speaker
Its art center houses a collection of highly specialized theaters and studios, like the 700-seater Red Theater, this black box, which is a flexible studio space, and the Blue Hall, a 150-seat recycle hall with pipe organ-inspired acoustic designs and sprung wooden floor.
00:07:22
Speaker
Ian, what were your initial thoughts on the campus and its arts facilities? What struck you about the scale, the design, and ambition on the stages, the red one, the Blue Hall, the black box? It was so interesting to see these purpose-built spaces.
00:07:36
Speaker
They are each demonstrating where the priorities are. You know, there's a lot of wood involved and there's not a lot of trees in the UAE. So somebody put some extra care into how these spaces are being configured. Then to the Reseda Hall included the the chairs were also built.
00:07:53
Speaker
made out of a a blonde wood as well, which is great for the acoustics, but it's something that, that seems sort of ah luxurious in a lot of the spaces that I've been into as well. We saw more sort of standard chairs in there, but it really sort of stressed the importance of providing the sort of like best environment for performance to be uh developed here and for it to be displayed to those who are coming here and really spoke to the overall investment in the cultural infrastructure on saudi ad island across the entire uh region the entire area that part of abu dhabi is really seeing a growth in cultural facilities and museums and performance that i think is really demonstrating like this this shift
00:08:39
Speaker
in thinking around how do we bring in the world and how do we have a cultural conversation about how we interact in it as well. Vanessa, as someone who is tagging along, what was your reaction to seeing all these bespoke spaces?
00:08:54
Speaker
ah For me, it was extremely useful to have the tour and the you know to have the explanations as to, like you said, why they've built each theater and with water in mind. And there was this blonde wood all over and the whole place felt like it was. Like you were inside of an organ and you could see like the edges and the curvature of every single corner. You can see how the acoustics traveled there.
00:09:20
Speaker
For me, the blue hall felt like being inside of an origami a wrapper. So as as if you were making an origami proc crane with paper and then you undo it, you can see all these triangles in the paper and it felt like that was a representative on the walls.
00:09:39
Speaker
And you can see how the sound would be bouncing off all of those jagged edges and bouncing around so that people who must have gotten like a much better sort of like surround system experience And um for what I could understand from the black box, it was a very modular, flexible studio that, unlike a lot of firm other places, it allowed to customize things to the theater company's needs, and such as changing and the depth of the stage, even the flooring.
00:10:08
Speaker
So that was also fantastic to see and also really informative to learn. Ian, how did you feel presenting your sonography work to students and faculty in Abu Dhabi in a different cultural and geo like geographic context to your usual practice?
00:10:24
Speaker
It was a really meaningful experience. i'm ah Not just because, in part, it was organized by Abby Diaz, who was our host at NYUAD, because she had worked for at the Center for Sustainable Practice in the Arts like a decade ago, before she had moved to the UAE and taken up this work with andu So in that way, it was the first time that we actually met in person, even though we had spent years sort working together and have known each other for a while.
00:10:51
Speaker
It was the first time that we had you know shared physical space to each other. So was special in that regard just to be able to to put that together. ah But the talk itself, it was called Somewhere in Time, Mapping Art, Technology and Ecology. And it was really about tracing how ideas move through the things that I work on across projects and across time.
00:11:09
Speaker
I used four coordinates as a way of thinking, ghosts, people, sights, and signals. It's not a formula, more more like a compass moving through things. And being able to connect that work together was was really something that was special for me, especially bringing it into a context that I'd never been before.
00:11:29
Speaker
I love that framing. It felt like a such a poetic way to describe the creative process. The goals being what we inherit, people being the collaborators, the sites being the spaces that hold the work, and if I'm correct, the signals being the invisible systems that connect everything.
00:11:46
Speaker
Was there anything you changed or adapted for the audience? Like did the structure influence how you presented your ideas about the design or sustainability or hybridity? Well, the structure let me talk about projects like Parkway Forest and Groundworks and Vox Lumen, not as separate experiments, but sort of as one living map sort of a cycle of energy, collaboration and care.
00:12:06
Speaker
What came up in conversation was how much these things resonated like in the Gulf right now. There's this glowing interest in our technology and sustainability inter intersect culturally, not just technically.
00:12:17
Speaker
So the way that the the talk ended up getting structured was really informative ah of being able to demonstrate how these lines of thinking and how these different guide points are actually connected to each other and recreate more of a through line through the work.
00:12:33
Speaker
I could feel people connecting with the idea that design isn't just about um building something new, but about listening to the systems that are already there. And so whether they're ecological or or social or digital. And did you sense any particular curiosity or questions from the students about how um perhaps like theatre design connects with sustainability or with your work in Scotland?
00:12:56
Speaker
Yeah, there was one one exchange in particular, which was with a student who was looking at projection mapping. like They were both looking to create sort of a ceramic piece and then projection map onto it when it was done. And so thinking about the way that you have the influence over the physical elements and then the phenomena, the the projections, the digital technology, and it's something that doesn't necessarily have a tangible form and how the things come together.
00:13:24
Speaker
i think that that was... that that there's a lot of hunger for that as it was being explained to us by abby as we were walking around doing our tour right she was describing that this is of great interest to a lot of the students right now and in talking to some of the faculty members as we were on that tour a lot of their work is as well like it is a it is an interesting environment to be doing this on we saw this in world stage design too like there was a we didn't have an opportunity to go experience it but there was like sound insulation like farther out into the desert and so i think that this otherwise seemingly foreign landscape for a lot of people who are coming in from outside or is just less represented in in popular culture of like you know the the the dunes a very shifting landscape to combine to then
00:14:13
Speaker
How do you bring in highlights of phenomena? How do you coordinate these things together? How do you create an experience across both the physical environment and the technology environment? I think is that that was one of the the main things. I think it came across in the talk, but like I said, with this projection mapping sort of conversation with a student coming in of like, they're, they're dealing with birth, like they're dealing with clay and then looking at bringing the technology on top of that.
00:14:43
Speaker
And the conversation that we're having was about as much as you can plan for it, like getting your hands into it, getting into it, like creating the thing and putting, you know, projecting onto it, seeing how it takes light, seeing how they don't have that reciprocal relationship. I think was very indicative of a lot of the conversations that we're having.
Sonography in Abu Dhabi: Art, Technology, and Ecology
00:15:00
Speaker
There's a true back and forth.
00:15:02
Speaker
And I think that it's true, like also when we're we're going to be in Scotland, though it's a very different landscape for that as we've been developing at campfire now return to a campfire. That the way that it it's hosted in the venue is very much about how these things intersect in these landscapes. What are the points of engagement between where we are and how we want to express that?
00:15:22
Speaker
like other ideas about it, what those signals are for it. So for me, the question was, how can we make those systems visible or even, you know, those are the performance and our way that's what sort of led us straight to team lab and the phenomenon, which we were both excited to see. It's sort of a living example of what it means to design with ghost people, sites and signals all at once, sort of arising out of the desert. Right.
00:15:48
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. And I absolutely get what you what you say. And I really enjoyed the exchange with that student. I feel like she got quite a lot of points out of that to to take forward into the practice and into the project that she was going to do. You know, you gave her some really clear things to start working on, which was really, really good interaction to see.
00:16:06
Speaker
So Ian, do you think it's time that we tell people people about our experience visiting TeamLab? So TeamLab Phenomena Abu Dhabi was this massive 17,000 square meter immersive art playground um where exhibits and mix the light, the water movement and everything responds to you as you walk about and you can touch everything, you can touch the walls and there's a reaction, you can step into something and it's something happens and you're surrounded by by moving light at all times and then you You know, there there's also like a water area, which is really exciting.
00:16:40
Speaker
This really sparked the big ideas about future performance and design for Venue 13. For listeners who haven't seen it yet, how would you describe TeamLab phenomena Abu Dhabi? Well, interesting because it's a purpose-built home for Team Lam's evolving installations. They're based in Tokyo.
00:16:57
Speaker
They have a number of different installs throughout the world, but this is like the first in which they've actually created the building to to house things. So i think it's operating at a scale. You've got these massive projection spaces, environmental soundscapes, shifting air currents.
00:17:10
Speaker
Like there, that it lives up to the phenomenon name. It was like sort of every natural phenomenon causing different sort of interactions there. So you're not just observing the art, you're you're participating in it too.
00:17:21
Speaker
Whether or not that's because it's interactive in a way that you might expect through a digital environment, like you see the environment reacting to you, projections of wind currents or, you know, insects floating or animals crawling around. that have been generated through some other user experience, then, you know, they can go splat or they change directions or they they start moving around you.
00:17:43
Speaker
So there's those elements. And then there's the actual physical phenomena too. You had mentioned walking through water. Like there are parts of it where you are going through you know you have to take off your shoes and roll up your trousers so that you're not getting wet so you can walk through these environments where things are floating around etc it's just sort of one of those rare places where you truly feel that the art the technology and the ecology are all in dialogue together Walking in, I remember thinking, this is the kind of scale where, I don't know, the bit the invisible becomes visible.
TeamLab Phenomena and Venue 13 Inspirations
00:18:15
Speaker
It's like you can't, anything you can think happen.
00:18:18
Speaker
It's like your brain is working extra hard to comprehend it, but it it's all very kind of quite impossible to comprehend. and So like they make light become sort of like matter.
00:18:30
Speaker
And then you have sound which like enhance the space and the voids type of thing. It makes you feel a bit hollow. And your own body sort of becomes part of the story. I mean, I was a bit nauseous in in a couple of of the exhibits because it just felt like larger than life.
00:18:45
Speaker
What exhibits caught your attention, Ian? Well, there's a morphing continuum and that when there's hundreds of floating civil balloons or, or you know, they this sort of exist as shapes is relatively dim. there they They swirl around you. They have, they're connecting the the air currents and having those so that they turn into these vortexes of these, of these civil balloons. And and so you have these tornado like patterns as light and wind interact. You sort of become immersed inside the movement.
00:19:15
Speaker
Uh, there's also like, and there's another space in which they are going through a series of laser light shows that are like, they have hundreds of, of lasers intersecting into a space. They create different sort of shapes instead of an atmospheric haze. And I feel like I could stated there for a very long time. It's also one of those things that while encourage you to take photographs, take videos, share things about it. So many of these things as phenomena are really hard to document in a way that you can communicate outside of experiencing it as well.
00:19:49
Speaker
And, and between all of these, i know one of the things that I took away from it as someone who, you know, I, when I'm in environments like this, I want to know how it's done. And when I go into ah most performance environments, I'm usually able to decipher how, how things are accomplished. And I like that sort of puzzle to it.
00:20:07
Speaker
And I'm always delighted when something takes me by surprise, where I am lost in the moment of the experience, where I don't at least for a moment understand what the technical systems for it is. And between all of these, even when I did understand it, like the, the lasers, like I,
00:20:23
Speaker
It's very obvious how it was done, but through combining various key elements to it in such a clever and and ultimately really simple way, it became really engaging for me where I was able to like separate myself from the the technology.
00:20:39
Speaker
what What were some of those that caught your eye? so I remember the one of the lasers and it was a circular room, right? And there were millions of lasers pointing to the center. And, you know, from an untrained eye, the best way I can explain it is that it's a low room. You're lying down on beanbags. You're looking upwards. There's this circular...
00:20:59
Speaker
a round of lasers pointing to the center and where they meet somehow they create these shapes and at one point to me it was like it felt like you were kind of in heaven and because or you could see like aurora borealis just because of the combinations and how the the lasers met each other in the middle so you you could see the suspended aurora borealis it was pretty pretty amazing But also don't forget the um biocosmos, which is like you walk in on a net and it stretches about this vast space and you don't really get a sense of how big the place is. It feels infinite.
00:21:33
Speaker
And you're in this net and there's clearly nothing under the net. So you're suspended and there are projections all around you and they're moving in in a diagonal circular way, there are flowers and birds and like cosmic imagery.
00:21:48
Speaker
And it feels like you're stepping into another dimension, but because everything is turning in a sort of like planetary way, I guess the best thing I can say about it. yeah This is one of the ones that made me feel a little bit nauseous. was like, I had to sit down on the net and and breathe because you you could be standing, but everything feels like it's moving around you.
00:22:07
Speaker
um But when when we walked into TeamLab, the first thing that hit me was how the space like itself felt alive. Every single room felt like you had its own movement.
00:22:18
Speaker
And that one of the pieces that really stayed with me was and the levitation void. I'd like to go back, actually, because I don't think I experienced as fully as I should have. But it's that this massive black space sphere that it feels like it's suspended by itself, like by magic.
00:22:37
Speaker
And it was such a a darkest shade of black that you couldn't really understand the or your brain couldn't really make sense of the shape of the sphere. It just felt like a hole of a void, in the like a completely 2D hole of void in your 3D life.
00:22:54
Speaker
And it was it's really interesting to you know how your brain tries to rationalize that. How does the immersive evolving nature of TeamLab, their installations, you know, the art that responds to the environment, audience?
00:23:07
Speaker
How do you think that connects with your own interest in performance and audience and how it Well, this is something that's always been what's what's drawn me into this. like One of my favorite artists is also Olafur Eliasson, who similarly works with Phenomena as well. Maybe less projection. They can be a little bit more simple, too.
00:23:26
Speaker
But I know what you're saying about Levitation Void, another one where it's just like such a simple... idea that there there's the minimal instances of technology like it's not meant to be like an overwhelming sense that this is like ah a techno space for it in that one like there is essentially it's a giant balloon and they've got these wind currents moving through that cause it to levitate but at the same time your brain's trying to make sense of the shape of it as well and so it's like these simple
00:23:58
Speaker
exchanges between the physical environment and the technology that allows it to disappear i mean there's plenty of the spaces where the projection mapping is like isn't this cool there's a very much ah isn't this cool but a lot of the success of these and what changes them over from like this is like a cool exhibit or something that you might see in a museum it's like educational and that with like really well done technical mastery around projection mapping is that where it sort of crossed over into feeling natural. It felt like it was, know, it felt like it was like, like an ecology and felt like it was part of the physical world, not just being imposed on it.
00:24:41
Speaker
And in that way, it sort of allows these phenomena to be the performers, right? It's an experience that reminds you that performance can exist without performers, that the audience, that technology and the environment can co-create those, these, these instances of meaning together.
00:24:58
Speaker
thats That's absolutely right. Yeah, you just said it. that's That's what it was. Do you think that this visit influenced or will influence how you think about immersive performance and the audience interaction on scenography in any upcoming projects?
00:25:12
Speaker
Well, I think that it will actually come into Venue 13 quite a bit because it's it's one of the things that's really appealing about the space that we have available to us and why we're interested in this this sort of open space and not like carving it up or not trying to like create really small conventional spaces that thinking about what can be done through these simple interventions that through inflatable a little bit of air maybe a little bit of a technology that you can create really meaningful experiences that that hold magic in those spaces and i and i hope that influences a lot of the projects that i'm doing but i really do hope that it's something that
00:25:52
Speaker
when we're bringing people in and they're engaging with us and working with us to bring something into venue 13 that those that that that open space that bullying canvas uh in three dimensions becomes something that engages all those senses sort of in the same way what about you vanessa having absorbed all of these international perspectives how will you bring some of that back to edinburgh and venue 13.
00:26:17
Speaker
Well, you know, that's that is still to be seen. ah But absolutely, with the research for Return to the AI Campfire, which is going to be the second installation from the the Campfire series, you know we had a conversation with some collaborators potentially to inject more technology and more immersive interactions between the um you know think the the visitors and the project.
00:26:42
Speaker
And in a way, although we do have, you know, it is a show and it is a, you know, a production, because it's a digital production, essentially it is a little bit like performance can be done without performers.
00:26:56
Speaker
So we do want to to find a way of finding that the the audience can interact with the piece and take something away from that, something that is, like like you said, magic, a little bit more something that wakes up within them that says, oh yeah, that was actually quite neat. And I will remember that and I will tell people about it because that has changed me in a way or maybe changed the way I view things in a certain way.
00:27:19
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's one thing to note also for our audience that we're both big fans of magic. Like we've seen a couple of magic shows when we're working on the festival together. And I used to work with a lot of magicians as well. Maybe this is fodder for a future episode where we talk specifically around magic. But there's something about in working with them. Like I know how a lot of illusions are accomplished for it. Similar to what I was saying with with the team lab space and like i know technically how a lot of this is accomplished but being still brought into that sense of wonder or being still brought into this idea where i i at least for a time don't know how something is accomplished or might know how it's accomplished and i just like it's done so skillfully that i can't see the system of how it's working even though i know how it must have happened those are the things that like bring me great delight
00:28:10
Speaker
and And that's sort of what I'm trying to like accomplish within the themes of the talk. The ghosts and these in the inherent technologies and data systems, they're they're reanimating.
00:28:22
Speaker
The people as the visitors and moving through the work, the site in the desert, whose climate shapes the building itself, and the signals are everywhere. The code, the sensors, the flow of light, it's all a total performance ecology coming together to sort of create these illusions or...
00:28:37
Speaker
a suspension of you know the the the concreteness of everything around us, that there's still mystery in the way that we're observing things. Yeah, and that that connects so strongly with how we're thinking about Venue 13, right? As a kind of living system, it might be smaller in scale, but it's still about the presence and adapting and the modularity that it has and the relationship that it's going to have between the audience and the performance.
00:29:05
Speaker
I think we're building a venue that listens to its artists, to its audience and its environment. And we don't want to talk about work like this. We want to make space for it. Like TeamLab, we're interested in art that doesn't just happen once and disappear, but evolves, responds and regenerates.
00:29:19
Speaker
Performances and installations that can grow over time. I think what impressed me most was that TeamLab, for example, if we we're going to take them as an example, is that they're not hiding the technology. You know, they are showing how things, the systems are working. It's all there to be seen. I think their advantage is that they have space. And for us at Venue 13, because we have a smaller amount of space, we have to think a little bit more about how to fit as much of a delusion of space. Because one of the things that was very jaw-dropping is how you go into TeamLab and it feels like some of the rooms are endless and they go on forever. And it's all smoke and mirrors. Don't get me wrong.
00:29:57
Speaker
litterlin Literally. Literally. Yeah, and but the thing is, how do you make those installations more modular? How can you actually create that for, say, one hour in one evening?
00:30:08
Speaker
And then how do you pack it up? And then all of a sudden, it's ah it's a dance performance. you know It's a completely different set. It's completely different... um stage. And I believe that that's an advantage of any 13, of its simplicity, that it can actually transform in various types of stages and nothing is fixed. And we are very, as directors, of it we're very open-minded to say, how can we quickly quickly turn this from one thing into another? So essentially, I think that we are the magicians here. um but With Team Land, you know, they are making sure that all the systems work, everything is beautiful. And it reminds me about a bit of what you said in the talk, and that sustainability isn't just a technical challenge, but it's also like an ethical challenge. Because how is that building, you know, supporting a sustainable site?
00:30:54
Speaker
But I feel like I could see also, as I said, they're not hiding ah anything. i could see how they work it into their exhibits. but Sustainability is is about relationships between energy and labor, between infrastructure and imagination.
00:31:06
Speaker
My project Vox Lumen, which came up in the talk, taught me about that ah with the way that it required certain negotiations amongst labor to allow it to happen in the way that it was engineered.
00:31:17
Speaker
rates to be able to use renewable energy to power dance performance team lab reinforces that on much grander scale it's not just about efficiency but also like awareness every watt every movement every line of code becomes part of that performance And that awareness is what we're trying to bring into our own projects, whether that's ah like a touring performance or a market installation or a new production in Edinburgh.
Influences from Dream State at Adelaide Fringe
00:31:42
Speaker
And we're going to have quite a lot of research to do because we want to make sure that every every show that we do is actually has that the element of both sustainability, but also of awe, I guess, and wonder. Mm-hmm.
00:31:56
Speaker
I mean, speaking of projects that really sort of embody that kind of awareness, do you remember Dream State at the Adelaide Fringe? We caught that earlier this year while we were doing our recon trip to see what sort of work was happening in Australia. It felt like another great example because it's also like touring and temporary of what we're talking about.
00:32:13
Speaker
So absolutely. Dreamstay was sort of like kind of living dream space. It was like a meditative experience because it used light and the sound and movement in a way that it felt very personal, but also quite collective because you were there with everyone else. You could like wander through the rooms, like space through space and feel a very immersed. and Some of the actual room sections were a little bit disturbing. so it was like noise and kind of strobe lighting a little bit. But you were, yeah, you were inside someone's imagination. It felt like a dream, but certain rooms were a little bit like nightmares.
00:32:47
Speaker
It reminded me that, that audiences are craving experiences that'll evolve around them, not just linear stories, but worlds that they can explore. that's sort of mystery. they can see how that influences someone to think about something, you know, not like a ah a haunted house. Like they just came past, uh, Halloween and it's not too different from that, but, but that's sort of like.
00:33:09
Speaker
exploration, interaction, something that like you feel like you have agency within the environment. This is the of energy we want to nurture at the venue with work that blurs between installation and performance, involves discovery, and can grow a shift over time.
00:33:24
Speaker
ah ah For me, seeing TeamLab after giving that talk at NYUAD felt like coming a bit around full circle. Everything I'd been describing in theory about mapping relationships across art, technology, and ecology was just like happening there right in front of us.
00:33:40
Speaker
And it also gave us a glimpse on what's possible when those systems are supported. and We had countless talks with people about, you know, grants and funding. And it made me think about how Veli13 could become a kind of incubator and for the same way of working, you know, where artists can, like, they can prototype, they can they can test, they can evolve work. And that blurs the lines um between the live, the digital, and even environmental performance. There are digital storytelling projects, for example, or a sensory installation or a performance which could be powered by renewable systems. And, you know, it was great speaking to so many artists because we were like, well, talk to us about Venice 13. Don't be scared of of the fringe because we are demystifying the fringe. We're making it simple. We are a medium, like small to medium sized venue, and we are willing to meet you halfway. you know, it's like, Tell us your dreams. What do you want to create? Because that's the the part that excites us.
00:34:36
Speaker
um So Venue 13 and Future 13 are about building that infrastructure at a human scale. The visit to TeamLab reminded me that the future of performance isn't just about this the technology, but about grabbing the attention of the people.
00:34:52
Speaker
Yeah, attention. I love that because that's what ultimately connects all of it. Like from my talk to team lab to the work we're supporting. It's all about learning to pay attention differently to energy, to each other and to place.
00:35:06
Speaker
And I suppose we should thank everybody listening for their attention right now, because that's going to bring us to the end of this episode from Sharjah to Abu Dhabi. It's been an incredible journey connecting the threads between research, design and imagination.
00:35:20
Speaker
It really has. The visit to team lab phenomena felt like walking into a world that practices will be preaching in the art, the technology, the sustainability, you know, everything can coexist in harmony.
00:35:31
Speaker
And it's inspiring to think about how these same ideas can thrive in smaller spaces like Venue 13, where we're building a community around creative sustainability.
Reflection and Future of Venue 13
00:35:39
Speaker
So whether you're listening from um Edinburgh or Abu Dhabi or anywhere else, thank you for being part of this evolving story.
00:35:46
Speaker
and until next time, keep exploring, keep analyzing and keep imagining what performance can become.
00:35:55
Speaker
Thanks again for turning into podcast 13. We'll be back with another climate change theater action play and more reflections on sustainability and performance. Take care and see you soon.
00:36:07
Speaker
On today's episode, you heard Ian Garrett and Vanessa Kelly, co-directors of Vennie 13. The topic was on our visit to TeamLab's Phenomena in Abu Dhabi and a guest talk from Ian at NYU Abu Dhabi. which will include a section of highlights for it sort of tagged on to the end of this episode. If you're interested, our music for this episode and all episodes is from dusty ducks, which we licensed via academic sound.
00:36:37
Speaker
Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed the episode, please subscribe and leave us a review. You can reach us at podcast at venue 13.com or follow at venue 13 fringe on all socials.
00:36:49
Speaker
for full transcripts and to check out our past episodes you can see those on our website venue13.com
00:37:10
Speaker
sounds more negative than print to be, but that sort of creates the the parameters on which you're collaborating with books. This happens with sight as well. So groundwork, we export how signals travel through stories, lay the visual media, tracing networks already so existed.
00:37:26
Speaker
with the way that those stories are transferred in the way that actual physical infrastructure throughout that region sort of erases or makes visible those sort of things. Sometimes, and the next element of practice though is to map it not just a map that's at them but also build one and to construct the infrastructure that allows the performance to exist differently. So this is sort of where Box Lumen, ah this project Box Lumen was out at home, which is the dance company, starts as an early rendering of this performance.
00:37:55
Speaker
There was a question here that Willie Young, who's the choreographer, director of the company, started with when we were talking about it, which was, and this came directly out of that Coachella project, conceptually, could a full length dance performance be powered entirely off grid? Like you had a performance say within a theater,
00:38:15
Speaker
And it's like, can we do it without using any of the electrical infrastructure? Mainly just see if it can be done. And then what's the st sonography of what that space looks like? Ultimately, the the piece was sort of imagined as a world where sunlight has vanished and survival depends on cooperation and renewable energy.
00:38:32
Speaker
The production itself, lit by those rules by all the light that was on stage, um and actually all the tech that was on stage, was powered by energy that we had to gather during the day. So before they got to the choreography, we began with systems design, re-engineering, some solar charging kiosks and modular batteries, testing various types of low energy devices, newer LED devices, mapping the energy load of each of our lighting hues as well, which something you probably need to do. And then, so this informs the aesthetic that comes becomes inseparable from the technical architecture, it right?
00:39:06
Speaker
So in that way, Vox, Lumen and Groundworks are related because they're both about this energy and relation. But here, the cycle is a novel metaphor for It's literally about electricity. um And that's sort of like the essence of moving from concept to execution, right?
00:39:20
Speaker
The artistic question that defines the system and then the system ends up sort of defining the four that goes along with the work. So once we have this question, how the performance live entirely off grid, except it wasn't like design of the visual sense.
00:39:34
Speaker
The stage designer, like figuring out where everything goes, but it was a multi-year research project to figure out like, where is this energy that come from? We had tried like PZ electrics,
00:39:46
Speaker
um We had like pressure sensitive floors that they were dancing on for a little while. There were there were wearable so circuits woven into fabrics. And all of these failed. We didn't use any of those. I think a couple of them show up in crops layers to keep them working. Like, you know, putting stuff on the dancers. And you know, like, i they couldn't accomplish what they wanted to accomplish with the movement for it. So...
00:40:09
Speaker
That was out. It was artistically driven in that. um But so we ended up doing it with solar. We were going to go with, like, trying to get the audience on the bikes so we couldn't find it to be temple. as This was, Taylor, you can imagine, ah in southern Ontario, because known for me, cold. It's actually...
00:40:29
Speaker
Fun fact goes, Southern Ontario, they test building materials there. So it has the most dependable extreme weather swings from negative 40 to positive 40 for a theater, um which is uncomfortable. And this was in the end of February, the performance of like the March 1st and 2nd.
00:40:45
Speaker
And you can see the spam on the ground for it. So we also don't get a lot of daylight during that. The sun's down. by 033 doesn't come up until nearly 9 a.m. so it was a relatively short day ah but we still don't say we we can still do this with source there's a bit of redundancy built into it as well um and we don't charge these batteries and so having to go through the engineering process that brought us to the previous image they saw that they half lasted this entire performance and how does that that influence the way that we designed Bucke-Likes video where we brought into it, sound, and also the set itself.
00:41:20
Speaker
One of the interesting parts about this again, and this seems to be one of the things that enjoy, you're seeing it might seem like to enjoy too, like ground works. um So these batteries are outside.
00:41:32
Speaker
to get into it, they have to go through the lobby. Those that are were three different labor unions that govern the people that work in each of those spaces. So as much as we had to design the system and we had to design the actual show itself, we then had to have labor negotiations to actually be able to make it work because they wouldn't let us run a cable through an open door to the inside because we'd get fire.
00:41:53
Speaker
ah So because of that, we had to come to this agreement between how this pass-off and and chain of control of the batteries were going to work, or there was no show available at all.
00:42:04
Speaker
So it becomes like its own sort of other layer of choreography that reflects the type of work that you're doing in negotiation of length and care and respect between the technicians, artists, administrators, etc. just to get the show to open in the first place.