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The Diamond League
13 Plays1 month ago
It’s our holiday special (because it's a holiday somewhere in the world)! Ben, NiNi and assorted friends of the pod look back on 10 years of BL as a genre and talk 10 shows that define the genre for us.
Episode transcript available here.
00:00 Welcome
00:55 Celebrating the BL Canon: A Retrospective
02:08 Blueming (2022) | KR | dir. Hwang Da Seul (Megan)
07:35 Dark Blue Kiss (2019) | TH | dir. Aof Noppharnach Chaiwimol (Shan)
13:59 He's Coming To Me (2019) | TH | dir. Aof Noppharnach Chaiwimol (Captain Hands)
17:00 His (2020) | JP | dir. Imaizumi Rikiya (Twig)
21:12 Light On Me (2021) | KR | dir. Lee Yoo Yeon (Kyra)
25:40 Make It Right (2017) | TH | dirs. New Siwaj Sawatmaneekul and Cheewin Thanamin Wongskulphat (Turtles)
33:29 The Miracle of Teddy Bear (2022) | TH | dir. Paajaew Yuthana Lorphanpaibul (Pluem)
39:52 Theory of Love (2019) | TH | dir. X Nuttapong Mongkolsawas (Bookworm)
46:15 The Untamed (2019) | CH | dirs. Steve Cheng and Chang Ka Lam (Shan)
51:42 We Best Love (2021) | TW | dir. Ray Jiang (Twig)
57:59 Ben and Nini's Drive-by Faves
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Transcript
Introduction to The Conversation
00:00:21
Speaker
Welcome to The Conversation, the queer media and brown liquor podcast. I'm Ben, the media critic. I'm Mimi, the vibes queen. And we're your drunk Caribbean uncle Ananti who is sitting on the porch in the rocking chairs. We're here to talk queer film and dramas with a special focus on Asian QL.
00:00:38
Speaker
So if you like deep dives into queer stories, if you like cracked out takes on art and commerce and queer media, if you just enjoy simping for attractive people, we believe in simping. Tune in.
Importance of Queer Shows in BLQL Canon
00:00:56
Speaker
And we're back. As part of our awards season, we decided to call on some of our friends and highlight some shows that we have not talked about extensively on the conversation that are really important to the BLQL canon. So we got 10 shows from eight of our friends.
00:01:21
Speaker
They all submitted clips advocating for why you should watch these shows, some of which Nini has not watched and should listen to our friends on. The if initial thought behind this episode, the Diamond League, is that 2024 would have marked 10 years since Love Sick. Let's call it the modern era of BL.
00:01:43
Speaker
So we wanted to highlight 10 faves that maybe we haven't given their side on the show. And we asked our friends to pick them. So you're gonna hear from some friends of the pod, some you've already met, and some new people that you haven't met before. And then we are going to talk a little bit about what they have to say about these shows.
00:02:08
Speaker
Okay, Brother in the Booth. Play the first clip.
Self-Discovery in 'Blooming'
00:02:12
Speaker
Hi, this is Megan, or Solitarium Wandering on Tumblr. My selection for the Diamond League is Blue May.
00:02:19
Speaker
Cha-Chi Wong is a college freshman in film school who derives his self-worth from his physical appearance and popularity. He devotes an inordinate amount of time to working out, adhering to his strict diet of protein shakes and not much else, and forcing his personality into pleasant contours. But another film student that arrives on the scene, Gyeon Da Eun, with seemingly effortless good looks, great grades, and all the money Cha-Chi Wong doesn't have.
00:02:46
Speaker
As the two continue to interact, Cha-Chi Won must peel back layers and layers of self-loathing to first discover and accept who he really is. It's a huanda-sul joint, her first and only time directing an adaptation of a BL webtoon, who can define popularity by Takabon, though she had worked with the screenwriter Park Young before with To My Star. Her third foray into BL after Where Your Eyes Linger and season one of To My Star, Blooming sees her exploring themes she's visited in all her projects to some degree.
00:03:20
Speaker
such as family, abuse, classed economies and interaction, social harm, and self-image, just to name a few. I feel like this show is where she really begins to refine her perspective and style. If you love complex characters or narratives which hinge on character evolution, you should check this out. I feel like this show is not talked about nearly as much as her other projects.
00:03:44
Speaker
It's available on iKey with 11 episodes lasting around 12 minutes each. Don't let a short runtime scare you away. I'm still sad we never got season two. Me too, Megan. Me too. I really wanted it very badly.
Unique Storytelling in 'Blooming'
00:04:00
Speaker
So Ben, what are your thoughts on blooming? I remember enjoying the production of it and when I watched it.
00:04:09
Speaker
I remember liking the same things that Hongdao Soul is always putting us through. Where really imperfect guys are trying to sort their shit out and some gross things happen that aren't necessarily totally forgivable but she wants us to.
00:04:27
Speaker
The difficulty is when it premiered, it was pain in the ass to watch. And unfortunately, that has really clouded my memory of it. So I personally don't feel as strongly about this, but I kind of want to watch it again because Megan is a very astute viewer of media. And I often really enjoy her takes part of how we ended up finding her was she was writing about disability narratives in QL.
00:04:58
Speaker
and all of us showed up to watch her live blog La Plui about two or three months after it finished. She was not expecting this whole group of nerdy essay writers to show up on every one of her posts to react to them. but She's been a lot of fun to have around. I feel like I need to revisit Blooming cause I don't feel harshly about the project itself. I just feel annoyed when I think about trying to rewatch it.
00:05:26
Speaker
I think that you should give it another shot. I love everything by Whangasil, honestly. And what I really loved about Blooming, more than the writing, which was pretty good, I really got a sense of Whangasil as a director on Blooming. The way that she directs the camera, the way that she has her actors move through space. It's one of the prettiest things that she's ever made.
00:05:54
Speaker
and Daon and Shiwon are really great characters whom I love especially Shiwon he's just so messed up and he really needs the kindness that Daon shows him and when Daon shows him that kindness he just like okay I need to stop being so weird about life I have had this messed up childhood where I have been made to think that what people think of me is the only important thing and here's this person just telling me to be myself because he wants to know me and he likes me just as I am and I am discovering myself through this it's a great little show I truly enjoy it it is beautiful to watch there are a couple of scenes in particular the scene where they go on their beach trip
00:06:48
Speaker
they kiss on the beach and then they go back to a nearby hotel and they have their first time silhouetted in front of a blue light. It is the prettiest thing that Wangizil has ever done. So I would suggest that you give it another try if you can get past the annoyance because I know there are things that I have not watched because I am annoyed by them. So I will allow for that. I'm about to say I was going to let you have a try a little bit. I'm like,
00:07:18
Speaker
No, no, no. I know, I know. That's what I'm saying. If you can get a posterior annoyance, I wouldn't encourage you. She's like, oh, you should watch it. It's not that long. I'm like, girl, we've been saying that about every Japanese project for three years. I've been touching up on.
00:07:35
Speaker
Let's move into our next entry for the Diamond League, and this one comes from Arsha.
Realism in 'Dark Blue Kiss'
00:07:44
Speaker
Hey, podcast peeps, it's Shan. I heard that Ben and Nini are making a list of shows they're calling the Diamond League. And I am here to bust through the door, like the Kool-Aid man, and scream about Darkboo Kiss. Darkboo Kiss is from the classic GMM TV days when they were first kind of kicking off this BL wave. And it really hails from the days when they were actually interested in telling good stories instead of just making branded pair content. I think it stands out to me for a few reasons.
00:08:13
Speaker
One, it stars Tenu, and y'all know that I'm a Tenu girly. Love them, and they are excellent in this as always. Two, it's a story about a long-term relationship, which we hardly ever get. So the story begins when Pete and Cow are three years in and experiencing some serious relationship challenges.
00:08:32
Speaker
Related to that, my third point, this show is not in the bubble. It is very much dealing with the realities of homophobia, both external and internalized, and how that affects their relationship over the long term as they kind of tussle with whether or not they should be out to their loved ones.
00:08:51
Speaker
And fourth, this show does one of the things I love the most in the world that I've talked about quite a lot, which is a class disparity narrative. The story is very much informed by the class disparity between Pete and Cal. It takes it seriously, and it plays it all the way through the threads of what happens. And, you know, know that that is super rare in Thai BL, and I'm pretty sure this is the only GMM TV BL who has actually done it well.
00:09:18
Speaker
I think it's worth highlighting. I think it should be in the canon of great shows that we discuss when we talk about BL. And I hope y'all are gonna give some more thoughts about why you like it. i love that you can hear shan smiling when she talks about taier that is absolutely ridiculous ah it's true Dark Blue Kiss is one of all shows and it is one of my quiet favorites of his.
Handling Homophobia in 'Dark Blue Kiss'
00:09:43
Speaker
And it's because he took something that could have been kind of forgettable with the Pete and Cow dynamic from the Kiss series.
00:09:52
Speaker
It's the very rare Tybioh that's about an established couple and these guys are having very serious, very normal problems. Pete's family is wealthier and his dad is more accepting of them. Cal is poor. He doesn't know how his single mom is going to respond to what he needs to tell her and he's scared of those consequences and what upsetting her may look like. So he's kept them in the closet this whole time and it really prevents them from moving forward as a couple. On top of that, he's hustling to try and make ends meet to support his mom. This involves tutoring. One of the kids he ends up tutoring is played by AJ. AJ? No, it's AJ! It's AJ? Oh my god. I looked this up before we got here!
00:10:37
Speaker
ah I don't know why I thought it was JJ, but yes, continue bestie. It's AJ because AJ is the one who kisses boys. That's true. Although, dot dot dot. No. There will be no other in here. AJ is the twin who kisses boys. We love AJ and JJ on this podcast, just so you know. We do. We love both of them, but also...
00:11:02
Speaker
JJ does not kiss boys. Continue. See, now I'm running a side ring. JJ does not kiss boys. I'm pulling up his history right now. Let's go look at the list. He's coming to me. No boy kissing. Together, no boy kissing. My gear in your gown. He clearly should have kissed a boy in that one. Did not kiss a boy. Enchante did not kiss a boy. Star in Sky, no boy kissing.
00:11:30
Speaker
but Midnight Museum? No boys got kissed in that, unfortunately. Dangerous Romance. He should have kissed the boy in that. Didn't. He was in We Are? Did he kiss the boy, Mimi? He did not. Exactly. This is exactly why I got pissed. AJ was in 23.5, near Euro, and clearly should have kissed him. And we know AJ will kiss him.
00:11:59
Speaker
Yuro could have bagged both the twins. In the same year, like this is my thing! Oh my god. Okay, here's how Yuro can still win. Alright, we're on a long tangent here. We love the twins. AJ plays Nan in Dark Blue Kiss, and Nan is clearly into cow.
00:12:19
Speaker
And Kyle does not navigate this kid's crush very well. He doesn't want to put this kid in this place because this kid is paying a lot of money. He ends up lying to Pete and this causes some real problems for them and really almost cost them their relationship in a way that felt really believable without it feeling super melodramatic. This is a really great drama about an established couple trying to take an important step forward in the face of real queer consequences.
00:12:49
Speaker
I want to back up Shan on this and say that you all should really check this out so that you can also yell fuck you to non with the rest of us because that boy sucks and he deserves everything he got. I'm just going to add one of my favorite things about Dark Blue Kiss aside from all the things that Shyna and Ben have already said. Girl, if you mention Pod, I'm going to fight. I'm sorry you know I love him. You know I love him.
00:13:18
Speaker
Pod, the Pod go in ship and Pod and go in as Sun and Morke, the side couple. I truly had great time with them. I really did. They are not a good couple. They're not a good couple, but they're a good couple in life.
00:13:35
Speaker
Minnie has created a version of them that makes them a good couple. To be clear, they are not a good couple, but if you write the correct fit. but Listen, I love them. Let's move on.
00:13:48
Speaker
Dark Blue Kiss is available on GMM TV's YouTube. Go look for it and watch it if you haven't watched it already.
00:13:58
Speaker
The next clip is from Captain Hands.
Metaphorical Storytelling in 'He's Coming to Me'
00:14:03
Speaker
He's Coming to Me, which is written and directed by Afnafernac, is a show about a ghost named Med who does not know the truth of his own death, and a boy named Thun who can see ghosts and makes it his mission to help Med discover how he died. And, because this is BL, they follow him up along the way.
00:14:19
Speaker
If you watched Bad Buddy and loved how Off used warring families as a stand-in for homophobia, then you should definitely watch this show to see how Off uses Toon's ability to see ghosts as a metaphor around the visibility and invisibility of queerness. I've spoken about this show before and how its distribution and viewership was severely impacted by protests against Omen Sing To being paired together in the series,
00:14:41
Speaker
Which is a damn shame, because the show is incredible. Ohm and Singho's performances are stunning, they're chemistry phenomenal, and the story itself is beautiful. Ohm's portrayal of Toon as he slowly realizes his sexuality is gut-wrenching and real, from Toon's mounting distress as he rambles about the assumptions people make about him, to how he acts when he comes out to his friends and family, to the breakdown he has in Episode 5's rooftop confession scene.
00:15:05
Speaker
This show deals so much with loving and losing queer people and how we seek justice for the wrongs that have been done to them. It is only eight episodes available for free on YouTube, and it is so, so queer, and I think everyone should watch it. This is an incredible show. He's Coming to Me is one of my absolute favorite, not just BL dramas of all time. It stars Yauh Ompawat and Singto Pachaya,
00:15:34
Speaker
And it's incredible. It's amazing. I love it so much. If I had to put one cat cat behind, he's coming to me. It would be that I think that I'll dodge the ending, but other than that, it's great.
00:15:49
Speaker
There is some really great acting from Omen Sinto in this. One of my favorite scenes, as Captain Hans would have mentioned, is Tun's rooftop confession to Med. It still gives me chills to think about it. And there's one thing Omen Powhat is good at. It's confessing to boys on roofs.
00:16:11
Speaker
If it was the only thing he was good at, it would still be worth it, but he's good at so many other things at the same time. Viewers are totally forgiven for having missed he's coming to me. There was a ton of drama around when the show released that we will not rehash here. The show was not really available in Western circles for a very long time. So I think anybody who missed it in 2019 is totally forgiven.
00:16:38
Speaker
But now that it is available on YouTube with subs, I think it's worth it. There's a pretty decent mystery storyline that plays out across it, and I really love the queer writing in this. I was still expressing a lot of ideas at the time that he hadn't gotten out, and I think it'll feel fresh if you haven't seen it.
00:17:00
Speaker
Alright, so let's move on to the next clip.
Exploring Love in Japanese Film 'His'
00:17:05
Speaker
Hi there, this is Twigty here to advocate for the underrated Japanese film His from 2020. There's actually a prequel five episode series by the same name from 2019, so don't get them confused. That one covers our two main characters should and Naga-san meeting for the first time in a small seaside town during their high school summer break. The series is a beautiful quiet union glimpse at first love,
00:17:22
Speaker
and the awkwardness that navigating queerness piles onto an already awkward life experience and is worth checking out on its own right. But I'm here to talk about the s sequel film, which takes place a year's addition to Night of Sis Futures where they meet again in another small town, this time in the mountains. This film is an incredibly moving second chance romance story that does a great job of balancing the romance with reality. Just some of the huge themes covered deftly in this film are Internal and external homophobia, adoption in child custody laws, how homophobia ruins the lives of not just queer people but everyone in their radius, the aging de ah demographics of rural Japan and what that means for these communities, finding your place, and forgiveness. The relationship between Shun and Nagisa is the beating heart and center of the film, but the relationships that both of them establish build and navigate with Shun's friends and neighbors, with Nagisa's ex-wife and child, and with the town itself are also richly portrayed and beautiful to watch.
00:18:11
Speaker
Neither of these are readily available where I am, but if you reach out to me or anyone from the pod, we can get you sorted with fansubs. If you like quiet, beautiful media about the loss of innocence, giving and getting second chances, finding your place, and building immunity, take the extra effort to try this one out. I am with Twig. The series is good. I like it a lot.
00:18:29
Speaker
I think it adds a great layer to the separation at the very beginning of the film because you are as shocked as Shun that Nagisa is breaking up with him.
00:18:42
Speaker
However, you don't need to watch it to enjoy the film and the film is a very excellent piece. I think it is probably my favorite BL-adjacent film that exists. This one adds a great layer to the second chance component of the romance because there's no noble idiocy in this one. Nagisa just got scared and left and now he's suddenly back with a fucking kid and a divorce. It's a really difficult and messy story, but it's executed with this incredible gentleness, and the community that Shun has decided to live in
00:19:27
Speaker
is really fascinating to follow along the way. It is a really excellent viewing experience and it's rare that I think a queer film covers this territory, this well. I highly recommend finding it and watching it.
00:19:50
Speaker
This film does some of my favorite things. Y'all know I love a second chance romance where they fucked up the first chance rather than didn't take the first chance, so there's that. There's all the drama that comes along with Nagisa having been married, divorced, and bringing his daughter into the mix.
00:20:09
Speaker
both in terms of his and Shun's relationship, also in terms of his relationship with his ex-wife, his relationship with Sora, his daughter, Shun's relationship with Sora, and the town's relationship with all of them. It also has Navisa coming back to basically kind of a rescution from becoming an absolute hermit, essentially.
00:20:34
Speaker
Because Shun once Nagisa broke up with him, he kind of disappeared into himself a little bit, and he disappeared into this small town that he's not really connecting with because he's sad, he's hiding, he feels guilty. I had some of the same feelings around 180 degrees and intellect that I did around Shun at the beginning of his the movie. It's a great movie.
00:21:02
Speaker
I would urge everybody to watch. Let us know if you watch it. I want to hear your thoughts.
00:21:12
Speaker
Now, brother in the booth. Neck close. Okay. I'm about to get swam-ed. Hold, please.
Personal Growth in 'Light on Me'
00:21:23
Speaker
Hello. My name is Kira. Kia ora can chan on Tumblr. And I want to talk about light on me. I love this show so much. It's a love triangle, but a very good and enjoyable one.
00:21:31
Speaker
It's what with Tae Kyung who doesn't have any friends and never cared about making friends until now. He tries to join the student council in the hopes of making some friends there but it doesn't go smoothly as he hoped. Tae Kyung is a little awkward and has a hard time socializing sometimes. The main student council members are Shin On, Do Shin On and Nam Goong Shin Won. Shin On, the president of the student council, is at first glance a very kind person who loves to help others but has a problem of them being able to say no to anyone. Do Shin On The vice president is also a living awkward guy. He doesn't say much and everyone says he's a nice person, but he seems to have a grudge with Taehyung. Finally, Namgoosewon is the guy you'll make your love when you have a bad day. He's always there to back you up or offer you his precious snacks. There's a reason an award is named after him, the Namgoong Best Boy Award. So, these are our main boys, and there's one more important character, which is a girl named Lee Seon Yee, who has a big crush on Daon. This KBL really feels like a K-drama.
00:22:32
Speaker
I'm not gonna say who wins this last triangle because it's fun to figure it out while watching, and they both have a good shot. Other than it being a BL, this show really is about a character's growth. They all learn something and they really love that.
00:22:44
Speaker
Okay, Ben hit me. I know I'm just letting you know in advance, I am actually putting it on my calendar for before the vibe awards. I promise. I just want to thank Kira for that lovely summary of one of our favorite shows. And I'm curious, Nini, after hearing her put so much effort into delivering a concise pitch for the show, do you find yourself curious? Do you want to watch it actually?
00:23:12
Speaker
I always meant to watch it. I just had a little bit of a problem with the uncanny valley effect. There's a lot of makeup and Vaseline on the lens, and I just needed to get past that, and I will. You just watched We Are The Series. I don't want to hear shit from you. You made us spend 40 minutes talking about We Are in The Series.
00:23:33
Speaker
i You spent 16 weeks with the GMMTV NuSewatch filter. Have several seats. Shit, well I just got read. I will be watching it within the next week before we record the five awards, I promise.
00:23:57
Speaker
Light on Me is probably my favorite execution of a love triangle in BL. Korea really loves second leads and they have some interesting ideas about hiding, yearning, and confessing in all of this. We'll Take Young is one of the most interesting protagonists we've had in a long time because he's such an active participant in his own story. He is not just a beautiful BL boy.
00:24:24
Speaker
who shows up and then just has hot guys throwing themselves at him. Our protagonist in a lot of romance stories is not often really that active of a driver of their own life. They have to respond to what the story is throwing at them. What I found really compelling about Wu Tae Kyung is that he holds his suitors accountable.
00:24:46
Speaker
He is very self-assured about who he is and what he wants to be without being stubborn to the point of being unwilling to learn and grow from what he experiences along the way. He's a really fascinating BL lead. And I think once you fucking watch, you'll understand why this show is so important to so many of us that even our best friend Kira, who is often shy about this kind of stuff, was willing to put her voice on the line for it.
00:25:16
Speaker
I have taken your many, many, many, many points and I promise you by the next turn we talk, I have watched lights up. She says before she edits that out. I'm like it i leaving it in for accountability.
00:25:40
Speaker
Okay, brother in the be on the next clip. So the next clip is from turtles and let's hear what she has to say.
Authentic Teenage Love in 'Make It Right'
00:25:50
Speaker
Make it right. A classic historic and legendary show from the early annals of the Thai boys love genre for so many reasons. Make it right. Followed format wise in the footsteps of its immediate Thai BL predecessor, 2014's lovesick.
00:26:07
Speaker
allotting screen time to multiple couples and their unwinding romances. But unlike Lovesick and other important Thai teenage multi-narrative series, Make It Right focused exclusively on same-sex couplings. This wasn't a surprising move, given the creators of Make It Right, two budding screenwriters and directors who would go on to become stalwarts of the Thai series-wide genre, New Soaj and Chiwin Thanaman. Make It Right wasn't a perfect show by any means.
00:26:36
Speaker
with Nu and Chi-win both at the helm. You have to expect some chaos, and there were a lot of moments in this series that left my head spinning. There were unexplained sex and food metaphors, unfulfilled romantic journeys among some side couples, and other loose threads. However, both seasons of Make It Bright were anchored by the romantic development of its lead couples, T-Fuse and Frame Book. And the series went no holds barred on the complications these young men faced in their budding relationships.
00:27:05
Speaker
Fuse had to balance his growing bisexual attraction to tea while managing a complicated, previously existing relationship with a cheating girlfriend. Book continually dodged Frame's advances, while the experienced Frame made missteps in his eager courtship of Book. The second season of Make It Right, especially the ending, hearkened back to some of Chiwen Thoneman's best and most heartfelt work, particularly the ending of Bedfriend,
00:27:31
Speaker
as both series ended with optimistic proposals of forever among their beloved pairs. But most of all, what moved me about Make It Right is its unabashed devotion to the authenticity authenticity of experience of young teenage love and sex. New Sawaj and Chiwin Thoneman approached young gay male sex with a laser focus on how messy and complicated young love and sex can be.
00:27:58
Speaker
They made the experience of first gay love universal for all viewers. And most importantly, as my dear friend Ben of the conversation podcast said to me in 2023, when I first watched Make It Right, the series finally in that moment in history did not punish young men for being gay, as so much queer media had done before Make It Right's airing. Ben said, quote,
00:28:23
Speaker
New Suaj and Chiwin Thanaman understand that many early sexual experiences are with other boys. And Make It Bright asks what life could be if they just didn't turn against each other for it. Make It Bright treats its characters with the respect that developing teenagers deserve. The world wants to be so negative to immature youth. But Make It Bright gives teenagers, young gay teenagers, the chance to grow without judgment and to make that growth relatable to even the most experienced adult viewer. Thank you, Turtles. Ben, I know you are one of the world's foremost experts and lovers of Make It Right. I am an apologist for Make It Right. Make It Right is not great, but I love it so much. P9 is still my hero all these years later.
00:29:19
Speaker
Every time I pitch Make It Right to people, I talk about it as like, what if you gave a bunch of gay creators in their 20s enough money to go idealize what they wished had happened in some of their high school crushes and relationships? What would that look like? And Make It Right is the answer.
00:29:37
Speaker
It's a weird show. The humor is all over the place in it. And every single interaction these boys have starts off in such a weird and kind of fucked up space. and None of the early encounters any of these couples have is what we would call ideal. All of them reek of dubious consent.
00:29:57
Speaker
But I really love that that's not the stopping line. There's a ton of exploration about what goes on after this. The main couple has this really great experience over dealing with having feelings for a boy who's trying to sort out his feelings for a girl who's cheating on him. The second pair, which has our beloved Onpawa in it. And his first role. Baby's first role.
00:30:21
Speaker
has this really compelling dynamic about both of these guys being sexually experienced at like 15, having interesting histories that they bring to the table already. There's a really great third storyline with a very femme, gender nonconforming character and their best friend. There's a lot of really complex ideas in this show.
00:30:44
Speaker
The acting is nothing to write home about. Really, Ole Miss. He's the standout performer of this show. I mean, he shines. He shines, I tell you. But really, there is just so much interesting masculine storytelling as part of this. We have a lot of complex feelings about New Sowaj and Chiwen on this podcast.
00:31:06
Speaker
They both had a lot of interesting things to say and explore about 10 years ago. It's one of the reasons why I stay engaged with their work, especially when I'm frustrated with them. At ah one point, I really felt like I understood and connected with these guys. And it's interesting for me to see where we are growing sometimes together, sometimes apart.
00:31:28
Speaker
One of the things that I like about Make It Right sort of as an early let's say proof of concept of the Thai BL space is the fact that they also tried to do something different than the blue shorts in terms of the aesthetic that they put together for the school. There was a lot of things that reminded me of sort of early, maybe 40s or 50s square meter in the way they were trying to do a little bit of cheesecake with the short shorts and all the things. It was some fascinating ideas that she would and you were working within and make it right. Especially that idea of how do boys actually discover that they like each other. It's not always pretty to watch.
00:32:15
Speaker
but it is always compelling to watch. It is long, but it is worth watching the whole thing for like a very clear idea of where Nusa Watch and Chiwen Daniman were starting out from in terms of the ideas that they wanted to contribute to the queer canon. Great show, I highly recommend it.
00:32:39
Speaker
I think Make It Right might be Ben's absolute favorite. Like from a stylist standpoint and, oh, I should show this to more people standpoint. No, but when people are like, what's your trash fave as like, what's an imperfect show? That's hard to show to other people who weren't there who won't get it, but like you will defend for the rest of your life. Make It Right is that show.
00:33:05
Speaker
We all have those shows. I know what mine is. Ooh. I need to know. You know what it is. Isn't Love by Chance? It is Love by Chance. Oh my god. Everyone's secret favorite show is a new Siwa show. That's not that good, but they did like one or two things really well.
00:33:25
Speaker
but but
00:33:29
Speaker
Let's move on to our next clown, another new friend of the pod.
Queer Truth in 'Miracle of Teddy Bear'
00:33:36
Speaker
Let's hear from Happy Potato. Hi, it's me, your boy Blim. I'm here today to tell you lovely people what I love so much about the miracle of teddy bear. Let's start off with the writing. Oh my god, the writing.
00:33:52
Speaker
is so tight and meticulous, I feel like this show doesn't wait any of its scenes despite its very long run times. All the details, even the minor one from the earliest episode, pay off big time in the later one and it makes you feel rewarded if you were paying attention. Like for and an example,
00:34:15
Speaker
Not doesn't eat his mother lunchbox in the early episode, which seems like a minor thing, pay off big time with the family trauma backstory. This show's writing is so smart and satisfying, and I applaud everyone involved in the process of making it. and Now time for a rant. Let me tell you, after some researching, I am certain that this show was one of the most important taikouya media in recent time.
00:34:45
Speaker
For people who didn't know, this show aired on a time slot called Lakhon Langkang or other news Lakhon on the most popular channel in Thailand, Channel 3 and the letting was not good. It was bad, like really, really bad. A lot of the BL girlies didn't show up for it and the Lakhon auntie just think it's worth too weird and and is pissing me the fuck off. Could this show depicted the queer truth unappointingly, and because of that reason, that's why there hasn't been a BL show in this time slot since.
00:35:26
Speaker
In my opinion, queer truth is as much as important as queer fantasy, and because of this show's failure in the writing, which is no fault of its own, is one of the reasons why Thai BL has been on the decline in terms of shows that speak on queer truth.
00:35:43
Speaker
The balance is up and that sucks because as much as I love light fluffy BL, queer Thai people deserve more than that. And also, if you only consume sweet bubble tea Thai BL, especially the MMMTV ones, it would lot your goddamn mind. It's all about balance diet, baby. Anyway, back to the lovely people of the podcast. Boom, out.
00:36:12
Speaker
Oh, I love plumes so much. Thank you so much for that plume. but You gotta hang out them sometimes. That boy is funny. He is funny as well. We gotta get there. We gotta get there.
00:36:27
Speaker
So Miracle of Teddy Bear is not quite a BL. It's also one that I have not had the time to watch. It's not a BL at all. That case coming to me, it is no fault of the Western audience that they did not watch the show when it aired. It it released originally in 22. There were rumors at the time that the show initially probably snuck by the censors because the premise seemed really ridiculous. Teddy Bear turns into a human.
00:36:56
Speaker
and like nates similar and they're like oh my god stupid be all trash There's speculation that the show created a from a distance goofy as fuck looking premise so that it could get away with saying a bunch of things it wanted to say about modern Thai society. There's also rumors that are unconfirmed that the powers that be delayed the show's external distribution because they weren't that keen on the things that the show had to say. That being said, we do have access to it now and our boy Plume is correct. It is an incredibly impressive family drama exploring intergenerational trauma
00:37:44
Speaker
We sometimes joke about some of the soap opera level melodrama that goes into some of the type reductions. And there is that element here, but it's grounded in some really believable human prejudice and bigotry that is really difficult to watch sometimes. One of my personal favorite things about this is how truly angry this protagonist was allowed to be. Our protagonist's nut is allowed to have a kind of recognizable queer rage and frustration
00:38:16
Speaker
that is not often afforded to a lot of characters in the the maybe tourist focus approach to BL financing and production. The transcript of this, I'll make sure to leave links to Shannon Twigg's combined post about the miracle of teddy bear and Captain Han's post about nuts rage.
00:38:37
Speaker
While I would not say that this is a lovely be able to go watch for a fun uplifting time, if you really enjoyed Moonlight Chicken because it felt more realistic to you and you want to see what more honest to the queer frustration people live with, storytelling maybe looks like in Thailand, this is very much a place to go.
00:39:06
Speaker
Also N. Serin plays the teddy bear and he's really good in this and he's very beautiful. Insurin is very beautiful and The Miracle of Teddy Bear is on my list. This year, my resolution is to catch up on my watch list and this is one of the things that's up at the top of it. I will say for those of you who are considering watching it, it is a marathon watch. Like a K-drama, it is like 16 90-minute episodes. It's long. So pace yourself.
00:39:40
Speaker
You know that that only makes me stronger, Resty. Oh, great. Our next one is going to be about... Oh, wait, no, that show's not up yet. We'll save that comment for later.
00:39:52
Speaker
But before we get there, let's get here and hear from Bookworm about our next show.
Sharp Writing in 'Theory of Love'
00:39:58
Speaker
Hello, this is Bookworm, neurotic bookworm on tumblr and my pick for the diamond league is one of my beloved BL favorites, Theatre of Love. Theatre of Love is a JMMTV show released in 2019 with off and gone in leading roles. The story follows a group of friends who are attending film school together and one of the boys third is secretly pining for his best friend Kai.
00:40:18
Speaker
We watch as Kai's promiscuity and general shitty behavior towards Thurd cause a rift in their friendship and he spends the rest of the show growing and rebuilding their relationship. To me, the show is a quintessential GMMTV gem because while it does have the common tibial pitfalls of weak side couples and a little narrative meandering, it does such an excellent job with executing its main narrative and themes that it cannot be ignored.
00:40:43
Speaker
The character growth arcs of both Kai and Third are well executed, and the storytelling tools imp employed by the show work effectively to support the writing. Kai's arc in this show is one of my favorites ever, because very rarely do we get to see a character that is thriving in heteronormativity and patriarchy go through a convincing growth arc in media.
00:41:03
Speaker
Kai is extremely hateable because he is a bit of a dick to th third and his friends, but he is also a very successful headman among his cohorts. He is good looking and charming, hooks up regularly with the plethora of girls who then fight over wanting to become his girlfriend. His fallout with third pushes him not only to contend with and understand his bisexuality, but also realize how he had been an inconsiderate straight man who treats everyone around him like shit.
00:41:31
Speaker
and we all know and love third and is crying in the shower antics but he also has a lot of growing up to do in the show. He is a fan of the romance genre who lets the grandiose depiction of love in media influence its expectations in real life.
00:41:46
Speaker
He lets Kai mistreat him all the time in the name of unrequited love and expects Kai to reciprocate his feelings without ever communicating them to him in the first place. Say it with me friends, mind reading is not an essential skill for a successful romantic relationship.
00:42:03
Speaker
The show's writing is very sharp and intentional in how it impacts these characters and their communication issues. Each episode is titled after a famous rom-com which acts as an effective framing device and also binds the rom-com brain rot to the narrative.
00:42:18
Speaker
The intentionality in writing also comes through in the special episode that goes beyond just serving fluff, further exploring the themes of the show and bringing them to completion. As someone who enjoys good writing, Theory of Love was a very stimulating and enjoyable watch experience. The show is available to stream on Wiki and the special episode is on YouTube for free. Thank you for listening and I hope I've convinced you to give Theory of Love an honest-to-goodness chance.
00:42:46
Speaker
Well, Nini, we have feelings about Theory of Love. Has Bookworm given you but an inclination to re-approach it? So here's my thing about Theory of Love. I acknowledge that Theory of Love is a very good show. It is very sharply written. It is very well acted. Nevertheless, I hate it.
00:43:12
Speaker
The reason I ate it is because Kai reminds me far too much of somebody in my own part so I have a very personal connection to how much I ate this show. So I have always sat in the space of acknowledging that it is an excellent show while never wanting to watch it again.
00:43:32
Speaker
And then, what do you feel about it? So, Shan successfully bullied me into rewatching the show. And I am unfortunately forced to admit that it's actually a very good show. And that it is one of the rare shows that makes a character suffer for the things that they did to harm the relationship with their friend. I will say this as sort of a broader thing about Ofgun while we're here.
00:44:00
Speaker
It's interesting reflecting on gems in the genre, particularly ones that GMMTV produced, and recognizing that I don't think Ofka never wasted our time when they've come back to play together in anything mildly romantic. I think Puppy Honey, for all its problems, has a good story with Pick and Roam.
00:44:22
Speaker
I think the storytelling of Theory of Love between them and the relationships they're unpacking there is really good and a very familiar beat that happens with a lot of gay people with their best friend. I don't think they wasted our time with Not Me, Cooking Crush, or The Trainee. I genuinely think Theory of Love is good. If I were to ever watch Theory of Love again,
00:44:47
Speaker
I think what I'd want to do is I'd want to rewatch the film that they named each episode after right before watching that episode. Like that would almost triple the time it takes to watch it. But I think it would be really good as a sort of thought exercise to explore what that writing team, which is one of the better ones, what they're exploring in romance and what some of their foundational media is.
00:45:15
Speaker
I'm sorry, Nini, I gotta agree with bookworm. It's worth including in a list like that. I've never disagreed. This is written by the All Right team who has hits and misses, granted, but the All Right team wrote Bad Buddy. They were involved in writing parts of Ken Porsch. The All Right team has written some ah really good dramas for GMM TV in particular.
00:45:41
Speaker
And they really were on it in this show. I can fully acknowledge, despite hating it, that this show is excellent. It's probably one of the best things that GMM TV has ever produced. In terms of VL, I will absolutely commit with that. I hate Kai so much that I don't think I can ever be objective, though.
00:46:03
Speaker
Maybe we will try your thought experiment with watching the films and then the episodes and see how I feel about it. That's going to be a longer project.
00:46:15
Speaker
Speaking of long projects, let's move on to the next bit of propaganda for the next show, coming from Shannon.
Global Impact of 'The Untamed'
00:46:25
Speaker
And another thing, this is Shan back to yell some more about how this illustrious podcast that has covered so much of the best of the QL genre has never talked about the biggest goddamn BL in the entire world.
00:46:40
Speaker
I am of course referring to The Untamed, which is the live-action adaptation of a very beloved Chinese web novel whose English title is Grandmaster of Demonic Cultivation. This is the story of Wei Wuxian, his downfall and his rebirth and, you know, his companion, constant companion, enemy, frenemy, lover, through the years, Lan Wangji. Now this is a 50 episode sea drama, so I could not possibly go into all of the many reasons why it is worth talking about, but I just want to name that this is a gap
00:47:18
Speaker
in the pod for us, and I really think we need to dedicate some time to unpacking why this story has resonated so much with so many people all around the world that it continues to be globally popular. It continues to attract new fans every week. It continues to dominate fandom spaces many years after it was originally published and after the show originally came out. It's still getting new adaptations as we speak.
00:47:48
Speaker
So anyway, putting that out there for y'all's consideration to think about, the untamed as a member of the Diamond League, and also maybe a show worthy of a full episode of discussion. Ben, what do you think about Shan's plug? Shan said illustrious with a hard R and I never moved past that.
00:48:13
Speaker
ah So. Nene, you mentioned during the miracle of teddy bear that the idea of going on a 24 hour journey with the miracle of teddy bear did not intimidate you and yet the idea of going on a 40 to 43 hour journey with the untamed repulses you. Elaborate.
00:48:37
Speaker
Not with pulses. I am yet to really find an interest in C-drama. I have attempted some C-drama, and the closest that I have gotten to watching consistently C-drama is watching Taiwanese Beel, which is completely different. Yeah, it does not count. It's one of those things where I will probably get around to it eventually, but C-drama is not really my thing yet.
00:49:08
Speaker
Maybe one day. This show is so funny to watch. Like the loop is the same for everyone. You watch the first couple episodes and you're like, what is this ridiculous nonsense? And then after a few episodes, you're like, oh wait, this is actually quite watchable nonsense. And then there's a turning point where something clicks and you go, this show invented love.
00:49:29
Speaker
And that happens to every single person who watches it. It really is an incredible viewing experience. And I agree with Shan that it is not a show to be ignored and put aside. If you have an interest in the genre itself, even a passing academic interest in it, it's one of those shows that you kind of have to watch. You have to go in and see why is it this show?
00:49:58
Speaker
For so many BL fans, it's this show. This show came out years ago and still dominates. Active fandoms continue to make content, continue to engage around it. I think it is very much worth watching for so many different reasons. Because it's a censored romance, they have to sneak their story into the plot. And this creates some really interesting challenges and forces a lot more compelling drama. And because it's a historical costume drama, there's a lot of martial art stuff and fighting in it, which leads to some really great political drama as as well.
00:50:39
Speaker
It's a really compelling experience. This is probably the most plotty show you could ever watch from a recommendation from us. Because C-drama does not hold your hand on anything. They are constantly hitting you with details that must be processed and paid attention to. And I think that makes for an incredibly stimulating experience This show is a monster. I have friends and people who I know who don't watch BL are not interested in BL but have seen this show or have heard about this show. It's huge. It's everywhere. A lot of people have gotten into it in and out of BL space. It's one of those things that I probably will have to watch at some point. I'll work up to it. We'll see if I can get to it by the end of the year.
00:51:34
Speaker
I do want to see you watching. Once I graduate and I have some time, we'll see what happens.
Devotion in 'We Best Love'
00:51:42
Speaker
Our final entry in the Diamond League comes from Twig. Tweet to hear again for another one of my faves. We Best Love is a Taiwanese series from 2021 in two parts, number one for you and Fighting Mr. Second. Both are six episodes long, both are available on WeTV, and I love them both for different reasons. Number one for you is about Xu Xu Yi and Gao Shi De, childhood rivals in their final year of high school.
00:52:08
Speaker
Shu Yi has always come second in all of the competitions between them since they were little kids and is determined to come first before they graduate, but he quickly gets distracted by being rejected by his crush. Shu just steps in to help him forget about the rejection in the most annoying way possible. This series is fun, silly, sweet, earnest, and a really cute Rival Stolover story about first love.
00:52:30
Speaker
The line, my feelings for you are none of your business, will remain forever iconic. If you like rivals or lovers, the Oblivious and Pining trope, competence, the Boca Effect, and language shenanigans because Shuyi is half Japanese and slips into Japanese when he's annoyed, you will love this part. Fighting Mr. Second comes with a time skip. Shuyi is now running his own company, and Shudo comes back into his life as the head of a startup that Shuyi is trying to acquire. This part is more moody, full of angst, and generally more adult. It's also really beautiful. I don't think it will be giving too much away to mention that this is the part that has the iconic line, you didn't believe in my forever, which is one of the best retorts to noble idiocy I've ever heard. I also need to shout out this part for containing one of the best drunk acting scenes in BL, and in general the incredible incredible performances of Mariama Yusuke and Sam Lin in this and both parts. There are also two side couples that run through both parts, at least one of which I think was supposed to have a third part but we never got it, so these stories are a little rushed.
00:53:29
Speaker
But still, for a story about falling in love, forgiveness, the trashing of noble idiocy, competence, the shift from competing to working together, and just crushing, devastating, off-the-charts intense levels of devotion to your first love, do yourself a favor and give this series a try. I think that captures it. but I don't know how you feel.
00:53:51
Speaker
I want Twig to write a fic called Determined to Come First but about these boys. You dirty, dirty bitch.
00:54:05
Speaker
ah
00:54:08
Speaker
This is really, really a great one. I am more of a fan of fighting Mr. Second than number one for you because of the aforementioned greatest drunk scene of all time.
00:54:20
Speaker
But both are very good, and I echo Twig's enthusiastic recommendation to watch these. I agree. Sam, Lynn, and you, I think, have had the most compelling chemistry I think I've experienced in BL. If I had to pick my favorite pair in a lineup of the 6,000 boys we've seen in BL, it would always be the two of them, at least in the top three, every time, but without fail. I love you so much. I have used Photobook here.
00:54:51
Speaker
He is very, very pretty. And he is a very, very good actor. Correct me if I'm wrong Ben, wasn't this his first role? I think it was his first lead role. And he really blew it out of the water. I remember looking at some of the BTS from the show and them discussing how, as an actor, Samlin is more experienced, or he was sort of guiding you.
00:55:17
Speaker
through the whole thing and a lot about the process of working together and filming the show is very interesting stuff. If I can find it again I will link it in the show notes or in the transcript because it was some really interesting stuff about just the process of acting which is one of the things that I really enjoy thinking about when I watch these shows.
00:55:38
Speaker
I don't want to get lost in the lore, but this show has some great lore. It really does have some great lore and Samlin is just an incredible, incredible actor. There are things that she did does. His tiny little hi.
00:55:55
Speaker
but I will never not think about that. I will never not think about the physicality that he put into the role. His actions are very tense and then languid in some really interesting ways that made me think about dance. He's just a fantastic actor and he really helped you pull himself along and give truly excellent performances, both of them. I agree.
00:56:25
Speaker
Their kisses are really great too. Like the bridge kiss in the first part and the couch kiss in the second one. Really compelling scenes. Still thinking about these boys years later. Oh, I miss them. Bring them back to me. I do miss them. What is Samlin up to? We last saw him in Unknown. Me too. I miss him a lot.
00:56:45
Speaker
This one's great, though. I really am glad that Twig put it out here, because it's not like we don't love this show. It just premiered before we started the podcast. This show is excellent. I highly recommend going watch it. You watch them as two parts, but they're a complete experience. Number one for you and fighting Mr. Second are a complete story together. And I really do agree with Twig that it is rare to see a show punish someone for their noble idiocy the way this one did.
00:57:14
Speaker
He suffered, absolutely, for being so dumb. And we loved to see it. He really was so dumb. He really was so very dumb. But so was Shu Yi. I mean, goddamn. I mean, there were some dumb boys, but they got it together after, oh my god, five years apart. Speaking of lore, that's not getting lost in deleted scenes stuff, but the deleted scenes are required viewing for this one. Absolutely required viewing. Find them all.
00:57:43
Speaker
The show is incredible. I like the long arc of it because I like when shows really follow people through their life and how the consequences of their actions show up in their life later on. I did enjoy that.
00:57:59
Speaker
Well, that's it. That's our diamond league. It was really fun getting to hear the voices of a bunch of our friends on here. It's very fun how international BL fandom is because you guys had to hear like five different nationalities on here with different accents as a result. Definitely a lot of fun. We always love to hear our friends' voices, always expanding the conversation outward. That is our goal. All right, Nini, before we go, what bonus show would you toss on here that we haven't covered that
00:58:35
Speaker
You really love and want in this conversation and it cannot be loved by chance. You plug that show constantly. So it does not count. I can't even describe how much I love, love by chance. I am always rewatching it. I am never not rewatching love by chance. I have my embarrassing theme, which is love by chance, which I'm absolutely not embarrassed by. But if I had to put something in the diamond league, it's going to be the eclipse. Interesting. Why the eclipse?
00:59:02
Speaker
Because I think that the clips is the closest that golf has gotten to seeing what they really want to see. And I feel very wrongly about all of the characters in it as individuals, not just the romances. I love that they're allowed to be wrong.
00:59:32
Speaker
and they're allowed to hurt each other and they're allowed to be angry and to lash out in anger and be forgiven or not be forgiven. I love that we have fems in there who are stronger than everybody and who are out front and loud and who get the apology that they deserve in the end from the people who have harmed them.
01:00:02
Speaker
I love the special. I love that they focus on the fact that once people get together, that doesn't change who they are. And sometimes who they are is in conflict and they need to decide if they care enough about each other to compromise or if who they are is more important than that.
01:00:25
Speaker
And I love that we got to explore somebody who is getting into art, who is not supported by their parents, but has their friends as support. I love a lot of things about the eclipse. It is not perfect. It is rough in some ways, but I think the underlying themes are incredible. I got two. I'm cheating. I can do what I want.
01:00:52
Speaker
like It's your show! From the Philippines, it's Gaius La Pelicula. We've mentioned it on the show quite a few times. We've not done like a deep dive rewatch reaction on it, but it is excellent. It is one of the more interesting shows that came out of the Filipinos pandemic surge. I really liked the way they approached cohabitation in this one. And I liked the way they explored someone being closeted, living with someone who is out
01:01:27
Speaker
and navigating that space with it. We haven't had another show that I think really captured that experience that well. I really like the development of the relationship between Carl and Vlad. It also has a gay uncle. Now always going to pimp out a show that's got a great gay uncle in it. It is a really excellent show from Anima Studios. Go check this out for your own sake.
01:01:48
Speaker
I will say that it is required viewing for listeners of this podcast. It is one of our top, top, tops. It is incredibly compelling. It is tightly written. It is beautifully acted, and it has the most banging soundtrack of music that I have heard in BL.
01:02:13
Speaker
My other show is Rainbow Prince. I love it ah so much. yeah It's also on the list, Rusty. It's also on the list. The first BL musical, Rainbow Prince was the first. It's done it the best. I don't want to hear from anyone else. It is so fun. It is so good. Every musical should have like two songs you really love and one song you should just absolutely despise. And Rainbow Prince has that. It's so great. I love how ridiculous this is.
01:02:48
Speaker
Oxenfilm stuff is usually very slapped together scripts that they're often letting actors ad-lib for no reason and long scenes. It is such a weird viewing experience sometimes, but god damn is this show so much fun and if I ever marry someone.
01:03:09
Speaker
This soundtrack will be played at my reception. I will see you all on the dance floor. I watched the first episode before I got distracted by other things. I do have to continue it. The music that I heard so far, I really enjoyed. Hilling is very, very beautiful song, very well performed. I am looking forward to watching the rest of this. I'm about to go play the soundtrack before I go to bed.
01:03:38
Speaker
but but ah So, I love this show so much. It's just so much fun. Go watch it so you can have complex feelings about arts and films like me and Twig.
01:03:51
Speaker
With that, we are wrapping up the Diamond League, which was meant to be a holiday special. And you know what? It's a holiday