In Part 2 of our Untamed discussion, Ben, NiNi, Shan and Bookworm talk our love for Jiang Cheng, our hatred for Meng Yao/Jin Guangyao, and why we will always hold out hope for more Chinese BL.

Episode transcript available here.

00:00 Welcome

00:55 Intro: More Notes From The Future

01:45 The Second Life

09:23 The Second Life: The Fallout of Wei Wuxian's Choices

16:52 The Second Life: Meng Yao's Dastardly Deeds

26:52 The Second Life: The Tragedy of Wen Ning

32:35 The Second Life: Two 'Fools'

37:41 The Second Life: Various Random Musings

48:18 Page to Screen (and Audio, and Anime, and Stage, and...)

56:59 Afterlife: The Impact of The Untamed on BL and Fandom

The Untamed Episodes: The Second Life

It's 'the biggest goddamn BL in the world', and we're finally going to talk about it. Ben, NiNi, Shan and Bookworm talk The Untamed. In Part 1 of our two-part episode, we talk censorship, the journey from MDZS to The Untamed, and the first half of the story.

Episode transcript available here. [https://www.tumblr.com/the-conversation-pod/784910987347247104/the-untamed-retrospective-part-1?source=share]

00:00 Welcome

00:55 Introduction

03:55 Censorship in Media: A Global View

12:37 The MoDaoZuShi Phenomenon

24:33 The Big Picture

33:36 The First Life

40:07 The First Life: Thoughts and Impressions

46:21 The First Life: WangXian and Other Fucked Up Love Stories

01:01:17 The First Life: Various Random Musings

01:11:02 Outro: Notes From the Future

The Untamed Episodes: The First Life

It’s our 3rd Annual Very Important Internet BL Awards and we’ve changed up our whole shit! Ben and NiNi talk the best things we watched all year.

Episode transcript available here.

00:00 Welcome

00:55 Introduction: It's Awards Season Once More

02:09 Acting!

08:00 Ships Ahoy!

16:31 Immortal Technique

29:05 Top Tings

41:43 Special Class Awards

43:11 Special Class: Honourable Mentions

47:36 Special Class: Mark Pakin 6th Man Awards

51:13 Special Class: Standout Queer Narratives

01:06:00 Outro

The 2024 VIIB Awards

It’s our holiday special (because it's a holiday somewhere in the world)! Ben, NiNi and assorted friends of the pod look back on 10 years of BL as a genre and talk 10 shows that define the genre for us.

Episode transcript available here. [https://www.tumblr.com/the-conversation-pod/774131636077019136/the-diamond-league-fan-favorite-bl-classics?source=share]

00:00 Welcome

00:55 Celebrating the BL Canon: A Retrospective

02:08 Blueming (2022) | KR | dir. Hwang Da Seul (Megan)

07:35 Dark Blue Kiss (2019) | TH | dir. Aof Noppharnach Chaiwimol (Shan)

13:59 He's Coming To Me (2019) | TH | dir. Aof Noppharnach Chaiwimol (Captain Hands)

17:00 His (2020) | JP | dir.  Imaizumi Rikiya (Twig)

21:12 Light On Me (2021) | KR | dir.  Lee Yoo Yeon (Kyra)

25:40 Make It Right (2017) | TH | dirs. New Siwaj Sawatmaneekul and Cheewin Thanamin Wongskulphat (Turtles)

33:29 The Miracle of Teddy Bear (2022) | TH | dir.  Paajaew Yuthana Lorphanpaibul (Pluem)

39:52 Theory of Love (2019) | TH | dir.  X Nuttapong Mongkolsawas (Bookworm)

46:15 The Untamed (2019) | CH | dirs. Steve Cheng and Chang Ka Lam (Shan)

51:42 We Best Love (2021) | TW | dir. Ray Jiang (Twig)

57:59 Ben and Nini's Drive-by Faves

The Diamond League

Ben, NiNi and Shan discuss a weird year for QL and look ahead to 2025.

Episode transcript available here. [https://www.tumblr.com/the-conversation-pod/773491356894150656/year-in-review-2024?source=share]

00:00 Welcome

00:55 2024 Headlines: Industry Consolidation

06:49 2024 Headline: Self-Censorship

13:52 2024 Headlines: Vertical Format Micro-BLs and Other Shit We're Anti

20:14 Festivus Airing Of The Grievances

36:51 2024 Fan Awards

55:49 QL Resolutions

01:04:45 Affirmations and Hopes for the Future

Year In Review 2024

Korea swung big at the end of the year and hit it out of the park on both the queer romance and queer life drama fronts. Ben, NiNi and Shan talk Let Free The Curse of Taekwondo and Love In The Big City.

Episode transcript available here. [https://www.tumblr.com/the-conversation-pod/772853406715068416/hallyu-let-free-the-curse-of-taekwondo-and-love?source=share]

00:00 Welcome

01:15 Introduction: Let's Talk Hallyu

06:01 Let Free The Curse of Taekwondo

12:36 Taekwondo: Themes and Patterns In Hwang Da Seul's Work

21:54 Taekwondo: The Separation

33:28 Taekwondo: The Reunion

38:22 Taekwondo: On Hyeon Ho

44:57 Taekwondo: Final Thoughts and Ratings

52:33 Love In The Big City

58:46 Love In The Big City Part 1: Mi Ae and the Film Adaptation

01:06:50 Love In The Big City Part 2: Umma and Young Soo

01:17:05 Love In The Big City Part 3: Gyu Ho and Kylie

01:28:31 Love In The Big City Part 4: Habibi and the T-aras

01:40:28 Love In The Big City: Final Thoughts and Ratings

01:48:25 Outro

Hallyu

More takes on the office romance, now with bonus miscommunication! Ben, NiNi and Ginny talk Ayaka Is In Love With Hiroko and At 25:00 In Akasaka.

Episode transcript available here. [https://www.tumblr.com/the-conversation-pod/772234368150339584/lost-focus-and-had-a-consensual-workplace?source=share]

00:00 Welcome
01:16 Intro
02:52 Ayaka Is In Love With Hiroko
10:45 Ayaka: A Split Narrative
17:20 Ayaka: The Negatives
24:25 Ayaka: Final Thoughts and Ratings
29:08 At 25:00 in Akasaka
35:34 At 25:00 in Akasaka: It's the Characters for Us
43:18 At 25:00 in Akasaka: Hayama and Shirasaki
49:05 At 25:00 in Akasaka: Filmmaking and Production
53:25 At 25:00 in Akasaka: Final Thoughts and Ratings
58:45 The State of J-BL

Lost Focus And Had A Consensual Workplace Relationship

The pulps are evolving in what seems like two distinct directions, and we have some thoughts on that. Ben, NiNi and friend of the pod Twig talk We Are and Knock Knock, Boys!

Episode transcript available here. [https://www.tumblr.com/the-conversation-pod/771043971480862720/pulpmania-we-are-and-knock-knock-boys?source=share]

00:00 Welcome 

01:15 Introduction 

05:56 We Are: Branded Pair Background 

14:37 We Are: A Rorschach Test of a Show 

30:47 We Are: Final Thoughts and Ratings 

38:21 Knock Knock, Boys! 

48:39 Knock Knock, Boys!: Sex Positivity 

55:51 Knock Knock, Boys!: Our Fab Four (and Jane) 

01:09:58 Knock Knock, Boys!: Final Thoughts and Ratings 

01:14:54 Importance of Pulps as Labs

Pulpmania!

It's a mailbag episode!

Episode transcript available here. [https://www.tumblr.com/the-conversation-pod/770414659556769792/fall-and-winter-2024-mailbag-grab-bag?source=share]

00:00:00 Welcome 

00:01:15 Introduction 

00:02:10 Inbox: Surprises of the Season 

00:07:07 Inbox: Does Categorization Matter? 

00:11:42 Inbox: BL Fatigue? 

00:15:51 Inbox: The BL Bubble 

00:30:26 Inbox: Sex On Screen 

00:41:07 Inbox: Fave Sex Scenes 

00:51:24 Inbox: Worst Sex Scenes 

01:04:24 Bonus Round: Best Sex in a Bad Show 

01:06:54 Inbox: Critical Philosophy 

01:18:31 Outro

Mailbag Grab Bag

Queer truth is on back on the menu, just as we were starting to get FAMISHED. Ben, NiNi and Shan talk Marahuyo Project and No One Cares For An Old Man's Underwear.

Episode transcript available here. [https://www.tumblr.com/the-conversation-pod/769685273986629632/finally-some-good-fucking-food-the-marahuyo?source=share]

00:00 Welcome

01:15 Introduction

08:40 Marahuyo Project: A Queer Activist's Story 

20:24 Marahuyo Project: On Queerness 

30:16 Marahuyo Project: Our Characters 

42:09 Marahuyo Project: The Christina Story 

48:52 Marahuyo Project: Parents and Children 

54:54 Marahuyo Project: Final Thoughts and Ratings 

59:48 Ossan no Pants

01:05:18 Ossan no Pants: Our Characters 

01:26:30 Ossan no Pants: Key Character Arcs 

01:36:49 Ossan no Pants: Furuike and That Fucking Guy 

01:45:25 Ossan no Pants: Final Thoughts and Ratings 

01:51:18 Importance of Variety in Media Consumption

Finally, Some Good Fucking Food

The Conversation is a podcast all about Asian BL/GL/QL (and sometimes other queer media), coming at you from a film crit perspective. We swan in every other week-ish to shoot the shit on faves, flops and trends, artistry and industry nerdery, and also crack and simping, because we contain multitudes. You can find us and reach out on Tumblr: @the-conversation-pod [https://www.tumblr.com/the-conversation-pod]

Credits:

NiNi (@shortpplfedup [https://www.tumblr.com/shortpplfedup]) is our editor and producer. Ben (@bengiyo [https://www.tumblr.com/bengiyo]) is our creative director and content manager. Shan (@lurkingshan [https://www.tumblr.com/lurkingshan]) is our associate producer. Twig (@twig-tea [https://www.tumblr.com/twig-tea]) is our correspondent. Our theme music is Dedication by Ron Gelinas Chillout Lounge [https://open.spotify.com/artist/03JYfsI9Ke7JFuxHD239m2] (Music promoted by https://www.free-stock-music.com [https://www.free-stock-music.com/])

Ben and NiNi

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