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Padma Chebrolu: The Wisdom of Indian Dance and Living a Life Fueled by Joy
278 Plays5 months ago
Season Two, Episode One: This month’s guest is Padma Chebrolu. Padma is an accomplished teaching and performing dance artist and is the artistic director of the Cultural Centre of India (CCI) which she founded about 30 years ago in Cincinnati. Her exemplary artistic abilities, leadership, and creativity have created tremendous impact on the arts education and public appreciation for the heritage arts in Ohio’s schools and community organizations.
Padma is the recipient of the 2021 Ohio Heritage Fellowship Award from the Ohio Arts Council (OAC) in recognition of the dedication and significant contributions she had on the community through the advancement and preservation of traditional arts. She is also the recipient of the 2022 OAC Master Artist award for Traditional Arts Apprenticeship for preserving cultural heritage. She has been recognized by the Honorable Mayors of Cincinnati Mr. John Cranley (2019) and Mr. Aftab Pureval (2022) for her artistic influence and contributions to the Cincinnati community. She has been on the Ohio Teaching Artist Roster since 2019, Cincinnati Arts Association’s Artist on Tour for schools in the Greater Cincinnati area since 1997, and has been recognized by Cincinnati Arts Association as the 2022 Art Educator. Padma frequently serves on OAC grant review panels. She is on the board of the Ohio Alliance for Arts Education and on the advisory board of OhioDance.
OhioDance A State of Dance is a six-part series coming out the fourth Friday of each month through November 2023.
This podcast is driven by the OhioDance mission to secure the foothold of dance in Ohio through increasing visibility, firming viability, and elevating the position of dance in Ohio.
In 2016, a five-person team set out on a mission to capture the achievements of persons and institutions who have shaped the intricate diversity of dance history and practice within the state of Ohio and weave them together in an easily accessible digital format. This we call the OhioDance Virtual Dance Collection. As of 2024 we have highlighted 37 individuals and institutions. The team has traveled over 5000 miles and interviewed hundreds of individuals in all five regions of Ohio. vdc.ohiodance.org
If you like what you are listening to and are not a member of OhioDance, you can go to ohiodance.org and click the membership button to join and receive the many benefits that come with your membership. You can also donate through our purple donate button.
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Transcript
Introduction to State of Dance Podcast
00:00:07
Speaker
Welcome to a State of Dance, sponsored by Ohio Dance and hosted by independent choreographer and interdisciplinary artist Rodney Veal.
00:00:22
Speaker
Hello, my name is Rodney Veal, host of Ohio Dance State of Dance Podcast. I'm a multidisciplinary artist and dance educator.
Meet Padma Shabrolu: Pioneer of Indian Cultural Dance
00:00:30
Speaker
And today I would like to welcome our guest Padma Shabrolu. Padma is the founder and artistic director of the Cultural Center of India in Cincinnati, founded and established more than 25 years ago. She and her company are highlighted in the Ohio Dance Virtual Dance Collection. Welcome Padma, thank you for joining us today. rad meet and namascaum Thank you for inviting me. It's a privilege to be speaking with you. I want to thank Ohio Dance and Jane DiAngelo for this wonderful opportunity to have a conversation with you. rodney's All my pleasure as well. This is super exciting. We finally get to have that conversation. So I'm gonna jump in and dive right in. In 2001, you wrote an article in Dance Teacher's Diary, and this is what you wrote. Teaching dance has always been your passion. You started learning dance at three years old. You state dance gave you athleticism, strength, discipline, stamina, and a spiritual place for you to go.
00:01:32
Speaker
You did your gra dance graduation ceremony at the age of 11. This was held at a small temple close to your home and performed in front of the God. A few devotees in the temple sat down and watched you perform. At the end of the show, some of them came came to you to give you blessings. There was an older gentleman. He gave you five rupees and told you to continue dancing and to serve Lord Shiva." That is pretty cool. Do you think that this experience is what drove you to continue or were you already convinced that dance was the way to go and it was your path? You brought back those memories for me. It's just like yesterday it happened. um Yes, that was a really special experience for me. Those kind of moments, not just that and many other moments like that, definitely made a problem ah profound impact on me. For me,
00:02:28
Speaker
dancing I had a strong connection with dance since the beginning. All these performances, they just bring so much joy inside me, right? So those blessings, it's like a bonus, right? You do what you enjoy. On top of it, it brings a spark of smile. um on somebody's face, right? And they were they're so they don't know you, but they just want to come and say something to you, he did did a great job. And even if they're too shy to tell you what it is, you can see their face and it's given and received and given again.
00:03:11
Speaker
So these kind of ah validations and these kind of a support, I had that, you know, it was a gift. I had that at that moment from those devotees at the temple and that gentleman, I still remember him his face. And that kind of encouragement stays with you lifelong. and it confirms and it gives you more and more determination to pursue the art pursue the art form. I love that. I love the fact that it spoke to someone to to walk up to you and and and give you that validation. and so I mean, as an 11-year-old, to be aware that this is this has that kind of kind of inner debt sort of life-changing process,
00:04:00
Speaker
I mean, that's pretty amazing. I mean, a lot of people at 11 are really that attuned. I mean, were you just you just are really into it. I guess that's the question. I just could feel the people. I don't know how to explain that, you know, you know when when you're in the dance class or when you're at a performance. you just feel the people around you and you just connect with them either because of their presence or because of your presence. The presence ah creates this energy and the connection. So
00:04:35
Speaker
I had that feeling since I was very young. It's not something I worked at. It just happens to me. So even now, when I go to a performance ah performance area, as the audience come in, I look at the audience, I talk to the audience, and I walk around. I just want to connect with them. The connection just does not just start when you start performing. It starts way before that. I want to create that ambiance, that connection with the audience until they leave. So it's a beautiful experience. That is so astounding about how you perform and what you do. And then we're we're recognizing it
00:05:19
Speaker
even today in the state of
Exploring the Guru-Shishya Tradition in Dance
00:05:21
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Ohio. And so you moved to the United States in the 90s and you started teaching. And in your article, you mentioned some students were of Indian background, but they grew up in the U.S. They could not relate to the concept of Guru Shaya. OK, the student-teacher relationship. Can you explain that student, that Sisha relationship, and how you make students understand Indian culture, religion, art, and history through dance? Because it is, we're talking one of the oldest civilizations on our on the planet. That's a lot contained within movement. Well said, Rodney. So all these ancient and or indigenous cultures
00:06:06
Speaker
have this spiritual connection with the art forms. So, you know, life is logical, but life could be magical. So to me, these ancient cultures have figured out how to make life magical. And when the teacher and the student come together in these traditions, in these cultures, ah It's a bond. It's just not about transaction. You give the money, I teach you. it's It's a lot more than that because you're not only teaching the art, the technique, but you are passing on the traditions, the literature, the poetry, the music. So you are receiving a lot more. That's not even tangible from your teacher.
00:06:58
Speaker
So that can only happen if you if the relationship is a lot more than transactional, a lot more than logical. So this kind of a relationship has been defined and established in our culture and this is something, you know, I explain to my students, some people understand it, some people don't understand it, they don't feel it. So either way, they receive the art, but the depth of the art could differ if you can connect with your teacher and the energy, um the force from the teacher, the song to the student.
00:07:44
Speaker
So for example, we have few rituals um that also signify this kind of relationship. ah In the classical ah dance forms of India, we wear brass bells on our ankles. So there is a ceremony that we conduct where we worship the new bells and give those bells. The teacher, gives the but the guru gives the bells to the sisha, the student. So the energy is passed on. It's a ceremony that a lot of families in and student church. And then there is another way, a gesture that many students do in our culture. Once they arrive to the dance class, they salute the teacher. That means they say, Namaste or Namaskaram based on their North India or South India. And they also touch the feet of the teacher. This is not to say they're beneath the teacher, but what it is, is the teacher puts her hands or his hands
00:08:42
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on the head of the student. So the energy circle is complete. So these it so the energy, the knowledge from the teacher to the student is passed on. So these are very ancient traditions that we have in our culture. It is part of the education to the families and the student, so they understand the significance of it and they cherish this. kind of a culture that's passed on ah in our ancestry. It just sounds such ah like a such a beautiful way to connect. I love the phrase it's not transactional and that you keep leading this circle of energy, which already sets it apart from Western traditions of dance. And so that there's it's less of a about a hierarchy. It's more about a connectivity and a connective thread. And I just think that's such a beautiful way to acknowledge that the student relationship is not
00:09:42
Speaker
subservient. It is connected and I think that's ah that's just lovely. I'm going through, I get excited about those sort of like these traditions and indigenous cultures and other world cultures because in African dance there's a very similar sort of connective thread to the circle and the sort of connective thread that it is joining in unison together and it's not a hierarchy, it is about we are all together, we're one, we're community and I think that's is really
The Inspiration Behind 'River Dances Within Me'
00:10:11
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special. So you just released a film titled River Dances Within Me. The film encapsulates the rich emotional tapestry drawn from millennia of life along the Ohio River. An homage to the river's indigenous custodians and environmental advocates, celebrates the cultural heritage and advocates for clean water loss. Drawing from Native American and Indian beliefs that revere river as sacred sources of life, then film embodies the cleansing
00:10:40
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healing and nurturing power of water. What inspired you to create this film? Rivers are sacred to me. I remember when I was a little girl, in back in India, our family, we we all went to an event called Vanabhojanam. That means dinner in the garden. So this is closer to, very close to the river, Krishna River. And all the families brought their food and we all sat with our families, blankets and all of that. And we had our lunch and all the kids were playing it around. And then my sister and I decided, we want to go to the river. And I don't remember we told our parents or not.
00:11:27
Speaker
ah We just took off. ah a little bit A little bit of rebellion. A little bit of rebellion. It's okay. So we we we were like, okay, the river is that way. So we kept walking and walking and walking. Finally, we saw the river. And I remember the water was up to my waist because I was liking the feel of the river so much. I just couldn't come out. My sister kept saying, I think we need to go back. see
00:11:59
Speaker
I just did not even respond to her. I would just enjoyed being in the water, running in the water, splashing the water. The river had such a beautiful ah you know energy. It just brought beautiful energy inside me. and As we all know, about 70% of our bodies are water, right? And I've been living ah next to the Ohio River for many years here in Cincinnati, and we pass by the river all the time. So for me, a river is something that leads to living.
00:12:37
Speaker
and it's a source of life. And river dances, just like you and me. So if you take it to the next level, the river is dancing, the birds are dancing, the animals, when they move, they are dancing, right? The entire nature is dancing. if you look at it very closely. And when we look at the river, there are so many great people out there doing great efforts to keep the water clean. So we all have millions of people depend on Ohio River's water as drinking water.
00:13:14
Speaker
And there is a lot of articles, there's a lot of laws around this to make sure the water is kept clean. And this river has been serving for centuries. It served an indigenous people. It served the next generation, next generation. And we want to make sure these rivers are there for many future generation to come and provide this clean water. Without a water, what are we going to do? and Nothing. they So as a dancer, I wanted to put the river in the center and showcase the beauty of the river and move like the river. So connect with the river. So I just wanted to create
00:13:58
Speaker
a piece of art that highlights the beauty of the river. So that's the result of this dance film I have created. We're going to take a moment for a break um and then we'll continue on talking and I have questions about the film.
00:14:23
Speaker
We want to remind you that if you like what you're listening to and are not a member of OhioDance, you can go to OhioDance dot.org and click the membership button to join and receive the many benefits that come with your membership. You can also donate through our purple donate button.
00:14:48
Speaker
So Padma, we're back. And Padma, talk to me about like this film. but Did you have any sort of connection to film and technology? So you're fearless as I'm bringing that on. What was that like? I grew up in the TV and film industry. So many artists, you know especially dancers, you know they really don't have the stage here, right? And they're not shy in front of the camera. So in childhood, you know I was in TV shows or as a child artist in the movies and so on. So I was always friendly with the camera. And I would observe what was happening behind the camera too. Between the shooting, you know, they each scene, there will be a lot of time waiting time. So what i I would observe the technicians or the behind the scene artists
00:15:40
Speaker
what they do. I was very intrigued by the whole thing. Over the course of time, you I produced several dance DVDs and so on. So I've been familiar with it and kept I kept myself up to speed on the technology and the knowledge and the process of making a film. I love that process. So you have to come up with the you know creative process. You have to do the storyboarding and and you have to help the crew what to do, how to do all the planning, pre-planning and actual filming and post-production. I enjoy every minute of it, but guess what? It's a lot of work.
00:16:23
Speaker
I'm fully aware of that in my and my other life. And so, do I mean, the film is very rich. And so do you plan to do more of those kind of films? Do you think that, you know, you you're familiar, you're you're very aware. Do you think that ah that'll become more and more part of your process? Definitely. We have several films um being planned at this time. So in the coming months and years, we are planning to film a few more. and release those. So I'm very inspired with this series of dance ones that we are trying to do. But as you write me, you're very experienced in this field. Many things have to come together ah for any film to happen. So um hoping the grace in the nature would help me.
00:17:13
Speaker
The Higher River will continue to inspire and keeping my fingers crossed, everything will come together and we are planning to release a few more dance films. oh That is lovely. For you, dance has a higher purpose and it's it's intellectual and spiritual.
Philosophical Dimensions of Dance
00:17:28
Speaker
Will you talk a bit about your philosophy behind dance and and what you do? So if you step back and look look at life itself, so what is the purpose of life, right? So we want to have a full-fledged life. For that, we need joy. That's like the fuel. So the source of joy is always within us.
00:17:54
Speaker
And dance or other art forms just kind of unlock the joy within you. Dance is a combination of many, many art forms. So it has music, poetry, and a sculptural movements, right? So it brings a lot of things together. And I learn music and I ah write poetry. I do theater growing up. So for me, dance is a combination of all of it. When I'm doing dancing, I'm doing five different art forms. It's very dynamic and it just makes the life sweeter. It makes the life much more pleasant.
00:18:37
Speaker
So for me, when dance is in life, then my life is at ease. Then my life is life has joy, right? There is a saying, you know, you we keep hearing that life is not fair. But the second part people forget usually that is life is fantastic. So we should remember life is not fair, but life is fantastic. So dance makes life truly fantastic. However you can look at it, you're learning or performing or teaching, however you should be involved with dance, right? If you find the rhythm either in dance or in life, right?
00:19:16
Speaker
life is at ease you know it just brings all these beautiful emotions from you within you so it just nurtures the life into a greater possibility right so we talk about a spiritual process what is spiritual process spiritual process, nothing but then, you want to be more than who you are. So dance kind of elevates you, it just boosts you up, it raises, takes you to a next level of, you can call it quality of living, right? It just makes the life as beautiful as it can be. So I know it's very poetic, but why I do this all these years,
00:20:00
Speaker
I just keep doing it. I can't get over it. I can't stop it. It's just because of that. And now how you're describing it, I love that you you talked about the second part, life is life isn't fair, but life is beautiful. The poetry is really about renewal. It's about what dance can do to renew the spirit and the soul in your humanity. And so it's it's taking ah it's such a beautiful approach, especially when so many other approaches to dance are about the transactional or about the the show or about the presentation. But this is about a way of living, a way of being that's far more engaging and far more satisfying as an audience member.
00:20:43
Speaker
I think that's what what i what I just enjoy about what you're bringing to it.
Cultural Dance Traditions and Well-being
00:20:49
Speaker
And so how do you bring that into this Western world of Ohio, this spiritual sense of being when most people want it to be about the show? I mean, that's got to be a really interesting challenge. When students come to me, they just feel very differently about the art. um or When the students leave or they go to a different teacher, they say it's not the same. You just have to live by example. You keep talking, you keep performing, and the way I approach your performance is quite different.
00:21:24
Speaker
I want to connect with the audience. I don't care if there are 500 audience or five audience. They get the same quality of performance, same quality and in honoring the tradition, in presenting it the way in in the most ah authentic and sincere way, ah to the best of our abilities, right? People really appreciate that. You just explain to people, hey, you know dance has tremendous possibility the way dance creates these thoughts and emotion inside you it just creates a greater possibility the ambiance of life just turns around it just becomes more meaningful i do get people to ask me you know at some places especially when i go to schools you know teenagers or you know teachers
00:22:20
Speaker
How do you motivate yourself? I'm like, what? I don't do that. It just happens. I don't try it. It just, dance has that power to motivate you. it It in itself is such a gift. So you don't have to tell yourself, oh, go to dance class, oh, go practice or go do a performance in itself. It's just so giving. I always explain to my students, dance gives you a hundred times more than what you put into it. So put in more, you receive more. You just have to be immersing yourself in into it. I think that is such a beautiful
00:23:00
Speaker
It's such a beautiful approach. We don't always hear that. We don't always, and we don't experience that and in the context of dance or the arts, to be honest. um And it's just really, really lovely. Now, you've you've been practicing, you did not even practice a doing being this for so long. Is there anything that that you like our our listeners tend to maybe demystify about what it is about this spiritual approach to dance, particularly from your culture, that they may not understand? like there's There's a tendency to see things you know as Westerners very myopically and not realizing just how rich and diverse India is as a nation. but would What would you want people to know in Ohio about this rich
00:23:48
Speaker
giving life-affirming spiritual art practice. India, as you know many other um ancient cultures or indigenous cultures, have these traditions. So the ancestors have so much wisdom. They created these dance forms, yeah physical balance, mental balance, all of these bringing together to the well-being of the person, the well-being of the community. So they these art forms have greater purpose than checking any boxes.
00:24:24
Speaker
I want any dance artist to not only learn the mainstream dance forms, but also learn a little bit about any of the ancient dance forms. So maybe the universities or colleges can offer classes in the ancient dance forms. So the students can connect to the purpose, the real purpose that our ancient cultures put in place so they can experience that. that and also they can have master co classes so they can go to just youtube right so i request all the dance teachers out there whatever dance style they teach help your students to experience the depth of dance the art can offer to that individual and how
00:25:18
Speaker
this individual, once they unlock their artists in there inside them, how they can create this halo effect and around them. They could be within their family or where they perform in the community. So this positive energy, the positive vibrations are passed along to everybody that they come in and counter with. um So we need to create a lot more positive energy around ourselves As artists, I think that's our duty. um That's our responsibility. So as teachers, we should always encourage students to understand or study or read or watch.
00:26:03
Speaker
some of these ancient dance forms, how why they are created, how they are created. It could be indigenous indigenous art forms. It could be folk are dance forms. It could be community dance forms. So experience those and their true intent that way It brings well-being in the artist, his or herself, but also well-being to everybody and around them, wherever they they go. And this is so important. That's the purpose of art, to create the well-being to the community, to themselves.
00:26:41
Speaker
So I think that itself is a great service. i mean You are describing exactly what how and why what you do is so special and important. And so thank you for that. I feel the energy in this conversation has opened me up. So thank you.
00:27:03
Speaker
A State of Dance is produced by Ohio Dance and hosted by Rodney Veal, executive producer Jane DiAngelo, editor and audio technician Jessica Cavender, musical composition by Matthew Peyton Dixon. Ohio Dance would like to thank our funders, the Ohio Arts Council, the National Endowment for the Arts, the Ohio State University Dance Preservation Fund, the Greater Columbus Arts Council, the Columbus Foundation, and the Akron Community Fund.