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Lighting Dance with Dennis Dugan
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Season Two, Episode Two: This month’s guest is Dennis Dugan. Lighting Designer/OhioDance Board Member, Dennis is a recipient of the 1997 Ohio Dance Award for outstanding contributions to dance in Ohio and has been working with light since the seventies. His early experiences in New York focused primarily on modern dance. Dennis worked with The Kathryn Posin Dance Company. The New York years also included off-off Broadway theater. Since returning to the Cleveland area in 1982, Dennis has worked with dance and theater organizations throughout Ohio. Although dance is his favorite performance art, Dennis also enjoys exploring sculpture, photography, and lighting public art.
OhioDance A State of Dance is a six-part series coming out the fourth Friday of each month through November 2023.
This podcast is driven by the OhioDance mission to secure the foothold of dance in Ohio through increasing visibility, firming viability, and elevating the position of dance in Ohio.
In 2016, a five-person team set out on a mission to capture the achievements of persons and institutions who have shaped the intricate diversity of dance history and practice within the state of Ohio and weave them together in an easily accessible digital format. This we call the OhioDance Virtual Dance Collection. As of 2024 we have highlighted 37 individuals and institutions. The team has traveled over 5000 miles and interviewed hundreds of individuals in all five regions of Ohio. vdc.ohiodance.org
If you like what you are listening to and are not a member of OhioDance, you can go to ohiodance.org and click the membership button to join and receive the many benefits that come with your membership. You can also donate through our purple donate button.
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Transcript
Introduction to 'A State of Dance'
00:00:07
Speaker
Welcome to a State of Dance sponsored by OhioDance and hosted by independent choreographer and interdisciplinary artist Rodney Veal.
00:00:22
Speaker
Welcome to a State of Dance sponsored by Ohio Dance and hosted by Rodney Veal, an independent choreographer and interdisciplinary artist. The podcast is partly based on the Ohio Dance Virtual Dance Collection, an interactive website that documents and preserves the achievements of individuals and institutions who have shaped the diversity of dance history and practice in Ohio.
Dennis Dugan's Journey into Dance Lighting
00:00:44
Speaker
Today, I would like to welcome our guest, Dennis Dugan. Dennis is a lighting designer and Ohio Dance board member, and I am so looking forward to this conversation. So thank you for joining us today, Dennis. You're quite welcome, Rodney, after we've done a lot of things together, yes. Many a show, many a show. Many a show. That's folks. We we we we go way back with but the Ohio Dance ah Festival shows, and it's just lovely. um and So Dennis, you know, I was super excited to get you on the podcast. ah Dennis, you have been lighting dance stages since the 1970s. Can you tell us how you got started in this field of lighting design for dance? Yeah, I was at Ohio University after Sojourn in the Marine Corps, and I hadn't really ever seen dance until I was working as the stage manager at the Memorial Auditorium, which brings in all of the out of the touring companies. and
00:01:37
Speaker
Murray Lewis' company came through, and Gladys Balan, who had just started at the University of Ohio University teaching dance, was had just left as a company member. And she came but when the company came there that that fall, she danced with the company. And I was up there running follow spot going, wow, this is some cool stuff. This is like really, I was i was amazed at the discipline that that the dancers had. And I was in in the theater department at the time and just started gravitating towards the dance department.
Influences and Collaborations in Dance Lighting
00:02:09
Speaker
And I went over there and asked them if they needed some help. They said, sure, come and play. And I did.
00:02:16
Speaker
started off my first light designed for dance with a set of shins on each side and a set of head highs and of course not knowing anything and knowing the dance I could get away with using very colorful lights which I was told not to use in theater. I put in red, blue, green and amber and of course then I started thinking about differently about how I was going to use my colors and what I was going to use them for. But that was the first first dance design I ever did, was up in the studio over but above the Walgreens Drugstore on Front Street in Athens, Ohio with the Ohio University Dance Department. That was just a department at the time, not a school of dance yet. It was Shirley Wimmer who was leading the program. Gladys Bailen had just started there.
00:03:02
Speaker
I'd also like to shout out to Pat Brooks who was who taught there and she taught the dance history classes, which I found quite valuable. Like in history, it was it was nice to to find about how you fit how we fit within the dance universe and finding out that the university at and Athens was kind of a German school of modern dance kind of progression, not exactly. that That was more once I got to New York, I got into that whole school of modern dance. Going on with the German school, it was founded by Mary Vigmond in Germany and Hanya Holm was one of her students and she came here to the United States and she started teaching modern dance in in New York.
00:03:43
Speaker
And Don Redlich, one of the very first dance company jobs I got in New York City, was one of her students. And in my later four years, five years with Don, one of the last years he started, Hanyu was in her 90s at that point, and he brought her back to do some choreography on the company, at least one piece every performance. And so I've actually been able to say I lit a roots choreographer of dance in the United States.
Importance of Dance History for Choreographers
00:04:13
Speaker
That's kind of why we wanted to have this conversation, Dennis. I mean, it's just like, you kind of were there. I mean, like Ground Zero, I mean, that's pretty cool. Well, Ground Zero was a few years before me. Well, after your effects. I missed a really good touring times when the State Department was sending all these dance companies to Russia and Europe for Goodwill Tours. That was in the late 60s and the early 70s. I got there in New York in the mid 70s.
00:04:39
Speaker
Okay, so yeah I mean, you really immersed yourself. I mean, you caught the bug ah probably greater than most people who are dancers um about the dance history. So you really got it.
Dennis's Early Career in New York
00:04:49
Speaker
There's something about this. I mean, it's important to to see how things formed and became. It's like ah the new choreographer comes up and says, I've got a really great idea. I'm going to put somebody out. They're going to be in a bag and I'm going to put projections on them. I go. Wow, they did that in the 50s. Nikolai Lewis did that. I mean, you know, the Nikolai Lewis companies did that. what They used real projectors. They didn't have VCRs and DVDs and all this other fun stuff. They needed film projectors to do that. So it's all been done. So it's it's good to know the history. That way you can see what what there is and then where to go forward. I love it. so So talk about your early years in New York. What was that like? I mean, in the so i mean that's got to be that thatd be a crazy times. Yeah, it was the worst time in New York.
00:05:33
Speaker
The New York City was failing then. That's what they always talked about. I never felt threatened there. um Having been a Marine prior changes your whole attitude about those kind of things. I just kind of fell into the dance world too once you started working there because I was doing anything and anything I could to to work. And mostly I was working as a stage manager when I first got there because that was the most accessible way to get into the business. ah But then I started, I wanted to do lighting design and dance. You were the stage manager, the lighting designer, the technical director, the props manager, whatever else needed to
Return to Ohio and Work-Life Balance
00:06:08
Speaker
be done. And so I started going off on tours with dance companies and down Red Lake was the first company I worked with for four years. and And so it was really good to go off on the road. And the first year and that I was there in New York, I had all this work, except I didn't know I was supposed to get work for the summer because everybody quit in the summer.
00:06:25
Speaker
and did other stuff. So the first summer, was I was a little crazy, because it's like, whoa, I don't have any work. This is not good. But we made it through. Headed on out, you know, picked up a few gigs here and there and it was all fine. Wow. The whole notion that ah a city state could be in failure, but art can blossom and grow. I mean, is that pretty much kind of how you would describe New York? I mean, if I was going to strive my job back then to somebody who didn't know what I did, as I said, well, I go to the worst parts of the city in New York. I climb dirty, rickety,
00:06:56
Speaker
creaky dark stairways to go into some cramped spaces where people jump around in their underwear and flash yeah their feet are flashing in front of me as I lean up against these mirrors. I mean, you know, it was just an odd business to be in. And then we would go to find a theater and we would put on a performance. and And there were lots of venues that catered to small modern dance companies in the city at that point. St. Mark's Place, Riverside Church up on 125th, they had a lot of dance shows. And there are multiple little dance studios where somebody would put together five rotary dimmers that would be house household wall dimmers and a couple of lights on the end.
00:07:39
Speaker
dial up some lights for a show. Wow. I mean, that's it's kind of many ways. It's almost like your graduate school. It was like, for some folks. Yeah, that's that that's that's a fair assessment. Yeah, yeah it was. It was ah without having to pay for it, getting paid. ah I am very jealous of that. ah So how long were you in New York? I mean, if you were 10 years, 10 years. So and when did you when did you leave to come back to Ohio or was Ohio the first destination? I'm not not sure. Oh, no, no, no. Ohio, Ohio was after we left New York. We left New York because ah my oldest daughter, who is now a costume designer at Baldwin Wallace College and works for Great Lakes as a a costumer.
00:08:24
Speaker
I was born in New York City, and she spent her first few years, and because I was the one to stay at home, ah crawling around under dancers' feets at rehearsals that I would take her to, because that's what I had to do in order to keep working and take care of a child in New York City. Of course, that was always a trip. and It was an hour to get out the door, stroll around the subway. So that was kind of a reason to kind of like, well, let's try a different pace in Ohio, so to speak. Was there was there a job opportunity? Cleveland Ballet was a job that I got before I came back here. They they were looking for a lightning supervisor. And so it was easier to come back here because family existed and um
00:09:06
Speaker
Having a child in New York, with when it's just you and your partner, that is very ah tough. It consumes a lot of of what you have to do, and and no one else was having children at that point. So you lost some friends because you weren't able to go off and do the things that they were
Ohio's Dance Scene and Professional Insights
00:09:21
Speaker
able to do. And I would also i was teaching also at Manhattanville College, and Pat was then working in New Jersey, and we still had our car. We never gave that up because we lived in Queens and the very first street where you didn't have to change the car from alternate side of the street parking every day. And there would be days when Pat would drive in, I would hand her Teshia and get in the car and go to work in Manhattanville College. you
00:09:45
Speaker
wow But it was just easier with parents here, and then we built the house. My father-in-law and I built the house that we live in. You did it yourself? Yes. Yes, we did. He helped me build the shell, and I've been 35 years working on it ever since. But you know if you build it yourself, you don't have to pay somebody else to do it, and you can survive in this business a lot of easier. I love it. I love it. that's as ah This is the kind of conversations we would have in the lighting booth as we were lighting for Ohio Dance, which I just love. so ah When you came back to Cleveland, you have worked
00:10:21
Speaker
ever since. I mean, you, I mean, not just in Cleveland. I mean, you pretty much have worked all over the state of Ohio, but tell us about some of the companies that you have worked with in Ohio. I know you've been down here in Dayton a bit. Oh God, 20 years in Dayton. What are you talking about? With Rhythm and Shoes. The only other company that's longer than that is Groundworks, with but and unfortunately this is their last year too. And so, I just called David up last week and told him, since you're doing your last piece, I will come in and light it since since I've officially been retired from the company. I've been trying to cut back on a few things. And so I'll be lighting David's last piece here in the in August. And actually I met David in New York City back in 79 with the Catherine Posen Dance Company.
00:11:06
Speaker
he was He was dancing and I was the lighting designer, stage manager, whatever. There's something special about Ohio. I guess it's like, i mean it wasn't like the lack of work. I mean, it's like, you know, in comparison to New York. It's not a lack of work. of you You got to realize dance is still number, then this is an Ohio dance point, okay? Ohio is the number three state for dancing in the United States. New York and and California being the the two not one and two. We have more dance companies, more more dance performances, more dance programs and universities than any other state and in the in the United States. And so having started here, that was very easy to come back to here. One of the worries leaving New York was would would I be able to work with quality people? And I can say that I have been working with quality people my whole career.
Advice for Aspiring Lighting Designers
00:11:53
Speaker
Yeah, and you certainly have. I love it, Dennis. So we're going to take ah ah just a short break and then we'll be back and we're going to ask a few more questions of Dennis. Dennis Dugan, lighting designer extraordinaire.
00:12:10
Speaker
We want to remind you that if you like what you're listening to and are not a member of OhioDance, you can go to OhioDance.org and click the membership button to join and receive the many benefits that come with your membership. You can also donate through our purple donate button.
00:12:36
Speaker
Okay, we are back from our break. And Dennis, I have a question for you because you have had, you've been in the trenches. You have been doing it. You've been hanging those lights for a long time. This is advice for people who want to get into this. For those of folks who are thinking of going into the field of lighting design, what advice do you have for them? You have to see it. You have to see light, okay? I have an assistant who works with me right now, Logan Chapman. So if you guys need a lighting designer, he's the one to go to. He's the he's the new young one. They understand all these stuff things that I don't understand anymore. All the new stuff. I grew up when things were analog to the Macs. 1976 was the first computer board lighting board on Broadway, and that was Theron Musser. And she was one of the only lighting designers who would speak to me when I went to New York. I went around and tried to talk to people.
00:13:26
Speaker
That was one of my disappointments coming from college. I thought, oh, when I get to New York, I'll meet these people, we'll be around sit around and talk about lighting and and all this fun stuff. And I found out people acted like it was the family jewels and they wouldn't get to give up a secret if they talked to you. And she was one of the nice ones. And she started the the technology role and in in the business. And and in 95 is when it really started to change. And Tom Skelton, whom I was one of the first persons that I sat beside, and he's a dance famous dance lighting designer. ah In New York City, I was working for Annabelle Gamsen as the stage manager, and I sat but beside behind him and watched him light because in college, there was nobody who could tell me how to light shows. They didn't know how to do it. They didn't even know how to teach it, okay?
00:14:11
Speaker
um And so I watched what he did, and I said, okay, I liked his logic. I liked the way he did. I learned things from him. And then and later, when with the Ohio Ballet, I learned from, because I was at at you teaching at the University of Hack at the same time, I learned about lighting, about cross-white lighting. And so what that does is that allows you to use cross-whites and you can zone this the stage out with cross whites so that you can pick up anything you want within those zones with white light to bring it out. And then I took it a step further and I use heavy color throughout my all the other distributions that exist within the space.
00:14:47
Speaker
That way I can sculpt with the the the distribution and the the color. and And so if I have a shadow, i can I can then initiate into that shadow a color of light, a dark color of light, so that it really makes a very textured sculptural person within the space. And that was one of the things that dance did for me as a lighting designer was I had to start thinking 360 degrees around the body. okay Even though they you the the audience isn't back there, it's still part of what you're doing. You have to all go all the way around because that the backlight separates the the dancer from the background. and And so you're sculpting. And then at the same time, you're playing it like music with the cues. You're using timing to be able to to to effectively make the cue work with what the dance is doing.
00:15:34
Speaker
And all at all times, it's about the dance. It's not about me. It's about what's happening with the dance. Am I supporting what the dance's idea is?
The Role and Discipline of Choreographers
00:15:43
Speaker
So going back to what would I tell a young kid, if you can see dance, which which which is an important part of being a dance lighting designer, you can't see dance and you shouldn't be. Don't go to the theater. You have to see it. and and that And that is a literal sense. A lighting designer is a visual art, and you have to feel and know the choreography to be able to do it. And the technology is just so much more advanced than when I started doing this. So I've come at it ah from a very basic level when I think about it. and And there's so much technology that the kids need to learn these days that it's really hard to focus on what's this one thing just going to do.
00:16:18
Speaker
On the road, sometimes in the 70s, it would be six dimmers, 12 lights and two follow spots. And this is, I'm working with the New York company and we're in the middle Arizona. We need to have a show. And so I have to make a show out of this amount of lighting that we have available. And I can say we successfully did that each time. Same thing with with working with Rhythm and Shoes. They would go off the beaten path. oh do they They truly did. And the audience always loved it. Yeah. Yeah. And it goes back to something you said earlier about dance history. You studied dance history. It's like you like you said that young people don't know the history. And it's like you. So you're really saying is like you can't just show up. You've got to show up with more than just like.
00:16:59
Speaker
Well, what are you doing? What are you trying to affect? yeah what's What's the idea? It was also Ohio University's program back when I went through it. They made every single senior put on a ah performance in which they went and they were the producer, the choreographer, the director. They had to find it. They had to do promotion. They had to to rent the space. you had to You had to learn how to put on a show. And I did that with Linda Soul Donnell, who that was went and worked with Lindali jazz tap people in in California. She used to teach there. She let me work with her on a show. And so that was also part of it. It was just learning how to put on a show and what makes it happen and what's your time schedule and how do you how do you be on time. That appeals to that marine in me is this this this discipline that dancers have to have in order to be able to create their art. You can't have drama the same way. Not that there isn't, but wait
00:17:54
Speaker
We're aware
Passion for Lighting Design and Technological Evolution
00:17:55
Speaker
of that. we We've had our fair share of drama in the booth. I used to tell people when you're choreographing, you're not just a choreographer, you're everything. You're figuring out a lot of things and you need to be hands-on. Yeah, you have to think about what it is you're trying to achieve. yeah yeah and this is I liked solving problems. We're down to our last question, Dennis. And it's really easy. It's a super easy question. It's like, you know, is there anything else you'd like to tell us about lighting a dance that maybe people haven't considered? Because this podcast goes to a lot of folks who are not connected to dance as well.
00:18:26
Speaker
Lightning design has been the best job I could ever have. okay It offers me, I don't have to be in a cubicle. There's independence about it because you're the one that has to decide about what it is you need to bring to the theater that day. You have to make sure that it all becomes that it comes there when when things are necessary. so There's a depth to it in terms of organizational and and structuring what you what what your job is. And each job is is is a little bit different, and so that makes it fun because you know it's never the same, and it is the same at the same time. And you get to go different places. The the road component is always fun, going to a new city and seeing different people, you know going to different belly companies in Kansas City, wherever, doing things with them, in the train station. you know
00:19:09
Speaker
so not just a theater. Theaters are fun in their own way. And the new technology now that exists is a lot of fun. As I told somebody recently, I go, because and and when I used to do it before, it would be about color. How much color are we going to put from here? How much color are we going to put from there? Now, with the LEDs, I can just say, dial in this color. I can go to this wavelength. And if I just want to add, oh, this wavelength is going to help this color of this costume, just a little bit, dial that in. You go, bam, there it is. It just it just pops the whole thing right up. you can you can so so I'm working on and ah on a more cellular level in terms of of light because of the technology that exists now today. so I'm retiring, but I'm not because it's too much fun to play with the things that I'm still getting to play with.
00:19:55
Speaker
I love it. I love it. Dennis, this is fantastic. Thank you so much for taking a little bit of time out your day to have this conversation. Oh, quite welcome. He's one of the coolest lighting designers in Ohio. He knows the history. He knows the stuff. You really want his guru like mind involved in the creative process. So thank you, Dennis.
Closing Credits and Acknowledgments
00:20:15
Speaker
A State of Dance is produced by Ohio Dance and hosted by Rodney Veal, executive producer Jane DiAngelo, editor and audio technician Jessica Cavender, musical composition by Matthew Peyton Dixon. Ohio Dance would like to thank our funders, the Ohio Arts Council, the National Endowment for the Arts, the Ohio State University Dance Preservation Fund, the Greater Columbus Arts Council, the Columbus Foundation, and the Akron Community Fund.