Transcript
Speaker: Thanks for tuning in to the loser kid pinball podcast.
Speaker: This is episode 43.
Speaker: I know we just did one of these, but something happened just recently.
Speaker: And I figured let's, let's have another episode.
Speaker: So who do I got with me today?
Speaker: Well, you have Scott Larson and I'm super excited to talk about heavy metal and, and the new release that Stern is going to put out.
Speaker: So I'm totally in on a heavy metal game.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Oh, and really quickly, it's her new friends of the podcast.
Speaker: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker: Let me whip through those really, really quick.
Speaker: Flipping out pinball.
Speaker: I know Zach probably doesn't.
Speaker: He's had enough of his phone ringing off today.
Speaker: But if you want a new pinball machine, give him a call.
Speaker: This Week in Pinball with Jeff Patterson.
Speaker: Go check out their articles.
Speaker: Brian Allen with Flyland Assigns.
Speaker: If you want some nice artwork for your home, go check those out.
Speaker: And then if you want to stick that artwork in a nice frame, check out litframes.com with Brad Hunter.
Speaker: He's got some good stuff.
Speaker: That was quick enough, right?
Speaker: Man, that was fast.
Speaker: So, all right.
Speaker: So Scott and I were like, let's do podcasts assemble, right?
Speaker: Because Avengers podcast, hey, it works, right?
Speaker: Absolutely.
Speaker: So who do we got with us, Scott?
Speaker: You know what?
Speaker: We brought in the A-team and we decided to go multinational here.
Speaker: So we have Scott and Josh from the United States and then coming in from down under, we have Mark.
Speaker: Let me try that again.
Speaker: And coming in from down under, we have Martin.
Speaker: How are you guys?
Speaker: Good morning.
Speaker: Good.
Speaker: That's true.
Speaker: It's from tomorrow.
Speaker: So you actually saw this reveal before we did.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: About eight hours before you.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Pretty much.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Crazy.
Speaker: And who else do we have on our multinational platform?
Speaker: Josh.
Speaker: Josh.
Speaker: We have Mr. Captain Canuck himself from the Marvel Universe, Jeff Teolas.
Speaker: The ginger from the north.
Speaker: Sorry, no Captain America.
Speaker: I'll take Captain Canuck.
Speaker: Oh, that's fine.
Speaker: Hey, Martin, are we okay being on the show?
Speaker: I heard those sponsors there.
Speaker: No car dealerships.
Speaker: I know, right?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: We have high standards on Final Round Pinball Podcast, but it's a pleasure to be on with you guys here on LoserKid.
Speaker: You know what it is?
Speaker: It's because of Martin, man.
Speaker: He does those sponsorships so perfectly.
Speaker: It's like you're sitting on a beach, sipping your Bahama Mama or wherever you want, and he's just whispering sweet nothings into your talking about those sponsorships.
Speaker: It's beautiful.
Speaker: I'm pretty sure Bahama Mama is not gin.
Speaker: No.
Speaker: It is a song by Boney M. Jeff Teal.
Speaker: Oh, okay.
Speaker: You betcha.
Speaker: Thanks for having us on, guys.
Speaker: What a time to be talking about Pinball.
Speaker: It's kind of crazy, right?
Speaker: So, uh, I, we had some teasers about, Hey, obviously it's been about, uh, well, it's been what three months.
Speaker: So it may be a little ahead, but, uh, they started floating out those teasers of, uh, stern assemble.
Speaker: And, uh, so Josh and I talked about this last night, but I want to know what you guys thought.
Speaker: And I don't know if you guys knew what was coming.
Speaker: I actually didn't.
Speaker: And so, uh, when you saw that teaser, what were you thinking?
Speaker: There's a teaser.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Pretty, I don't know, Martin, what'd you think?
Speaker: I was pretty impressed.
Speaker: I mean, what a great license to have.
Speaker: It's been successful before for pinball and for Stern.
Speaker: And I mean, there's just a world of possibilities you can do with the Avengers crew.
Speaker: So I was very, very excited.
Speaker: Yeah, look, going back to probably the original question, which was, you know, did we know?
Speaker: I knew it was going to be Avengers.
Speaker: I also knew, when I say I knew, we get told a lot of things.
Speaker: I've always been told a lot of things.
Speaker: And you don't really know until you see the official release that it's true.
Speaker: But in this particular case, all the information that I've been fed was true.
Speaker: I knew it was going to be Avengers.
Speaker: I knew it was going to be comic art.
Speaker: So I had some expectations.
Speaker: I wasn't expecting it to be this good.
Speaker: I mean, I knew it was Keith Elwin.
Speaker: I knew it was Zombie Yeti.
Speaker: But when you first look at it, honestly, my jaw dropped.
Speaker: I looked at it and went, wow, how is this possible?
Speaker: This layout just does not look like anything we've seen before.
Speaker: Well, and it's mind boggling, too, with it being Keith Owens third.
Speaker: This is three in three years.
Speaker: I mean, it makes you nervous because we talk about the sophomore slump and obviously he did fantastic with Jurassic Park.
Speaker: But then you hope that it's going to be amazing still and it comes out and you don't know how he does it every time.
Speaker: Layout-wise, this is my favorite of his three for sure.
Speaker: There's so many unique things.
Speaker: And the big thing I noticed was the major difference between the pro and the premium, where it really wasn't so much on the other two games.
Speaker: More cosmetic, you know, you've got a moving dinosaur.
Speaker: Okay, that's kind of cool.
Speaker: It doesn't really add much more to it.
Speaker: The raptor pit was the big thing that was more exciting on the premium and LE with Jurassic Park.
Speaker: Again, just cosmetic stuff really on Iron Maiden.
Speaker: This is different.
Speaker: There's a whole new ramp.
Speaker: There's the subway.
Speaker: There's just so much more on the premium and LE.
Speaker: And I had friends of mine watch the premium video and then watch the pro and go, huh.
Speaker: There wasn't really that kind of difference in the other two, but if you've never owned a premium, this might be the one to step up on because there's a lot of things.
Speaker: First of all, there's a lot of things in the pro too, don't get me wrong.
Speaker: You've got that special lock tower and again, that extra ramp and just the way the ramp feeds, so much fun.
Speaker: I was very excited and I don't know if I've ever been more excited by any trailer that Stern's ever done than this one.
Speaker: This one just...
Speaker: Like, I mean, Travis Miria, a friend from Oklahoma, he was speechless.
Speaker: He did a reaction video and basically just said, wow, wow, wow.
Speaker: He had no words.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: What actually surprises me, though, is even – yes, I totally agree with you.
Speaker: I think the Ellie blows me away.
Speaker: And spoiler alert, I actually – as soon as the trailer came out, I actually texted Zach and I'm like, I want an Ellie.
Speaker: And I was actually playing with and taking tennis lessons and my tennis coach is actually into his name is Lindsey.
Speaker: He's into pinball, too.
Speaker: And he he's the one who bought my Iron Maiden or my Iron Man.
Speaker: And he asked me about it.
Speaker: I said, it's going to be great.
Speaker: And so we both got in on an LE and I'm really glad because there are no LEs available.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker: This is going to sell gangbusters.
Speaker: Just... And I'll tell you what.
Speaker: It's the perfect storm, right?
Speaker: It is literally... It has got a phenomenal, really innovative, fresh layout.
Speaker: Interesting shots.
Speaker: Really interesting geometry.
Speaker: How everything sort of comes together.
Speaker: On the premium LE, you've got...
Speaker: What I think is just this absolute standout feature is that ramp that sort of, you know, defies gravity, I think it's called, on the right-hand side, which the Pro doesn't have.
Speaker: But I'll tell you another thing.
Speaker: I think...
Speaker: This is Zombie Yeti's best art ever.
Speaker: And I say that because I've loved his art style, but I've always found it very, very busy, very detailed, and I'm not sure what I'm focusing on.
Speaker: With this, it's got really good depth.
Speaker: It's a really good use of palettes of bright colors, some contrasting colors, really good shaping around the inserts, really good graduation of color.
Speaker: The art blades on the LA look great.
Speaker: The cabinet art looks fantastic as well.
Speaker: So I think you've got a great layout with great art.
Speaker: The only thing I don't know about yet is the rules.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Well, you can have some confidence in that as well, though, because it's Keith Elwin.
Speaker: I mean, if we have a blueprint from his last two games, I'm not worried about rules at all.
Speaker: You know, we talk about all these things, but I have a feeling as a competitive player, Martin used to be one, you guys have never dabbled.
Speaker: The point is that...
Speaker: as a competitive player and one of the top players in the world, there was a joke there.
Speaker: Nobody laughed.
Speaker: What a bunch of dicks you guys are.
Speaker: Anyway, the point is, you didn't allow enough space for the laughter.
Speaker: I'll dumb it down.
Speaker: I'll dumb it down.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Try again.
Speaker: Try again.
Speaker: I'll, okay.
Speaker: I'll line up.
Speaker: I'll line up the laugh track.
Speaker: Not this podcast.
Speaker: That's another one.
Speaker: Oh, yes, yes.
Speaker: The point is, we're all focusing on the cool things.
Speaker: The visual subway.
Speaker: How fun is that?
Speaker: It's always been there, but now you get to see it.
Speaker: Very, very cool.
Speaker: That lock tower.
Speaker: Pretty fun.
Speaker: Again, the extra ramp.
Speaker: The thing people, I think, are going to be obsessed with this game.
Speaker: I mean, there's so many different things.
Speaker: We talked about the Hulk spinner and all that other stuff.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: That grid, that three by three grid on the left hand side is going to be so incredibly cool from kind of a, I don't know what you would say.
Speaker: Almost think of Ripley's, believe it or not, combined with maybe some Walking Dead rules.
Speaker: That is going to be one of the best features on that game as far as gameplay.
Speaker: And when you're talking about rules.
Speaker: Well, what amazes me is, one, this looks like this should be a Super LE $18,000 game.
Speaker: Oh, wait to turn that.
Speaker: Thanks for driving the price up.
Speaker: Well done.
Speaker: No, no, no.
Speaker: Let's move, move.
Speaker: Well done.
Speaker: Look at all the wire forms.
Speaker: You have all the drop targets.
Speaker: You have everything in this game.
Speaker: And that's what blows me away.
Speaker: And one thing that people completely forget about is if you look at the LE, usually that custom side armor is...
Speaker: you know, it's an, it's an add on, right?
Speaker: It's actually in the LE too.
Speaker: So looking at all the stuff that they include in the LE, they included that, uh, custom, uh, powder coating on the armor and the, the deluxe armor too.
Speaker: Then you have the invisible glass, you have the shaker motor, you have the, uh,
Speaker: the mirrored trans light.
Speaker: You have everything in this.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And upgraded audio too.
Speaker: And I'm just looking at it thinking this is, this is an automatic instant amazing game that I, I am amazed that they were actually able to put it out for this.
Speaker: And I, maybe that's just me.
Speaker: I looked at this and I thought this could be the first one for Stern game that actually breaks a $10,000 and it didn't.
Speaker: Has the pricing come out?
Speaker: Yes, it has.
Speaker: Stern has increased their price by only $100.
Speaker: I know people keep hearing that it's only $100.
Speaker: It's only $100.
Speaker: But yes, it did go up by $100.
Speaker: So the Pro, that puts it at $59.99 and then $77 for the premium.
Speaker: I thought I saw $61.99 for the Pro, $77.99 for the premium, and then LE was $9 something.
Speaker: Yeah, I'm on their site now.
Speaker: It's $61.99 for the Pro.
Speaker: It is $77.99.
Speaker: Yes, and then $91.99 for the LE.
Speaker: Oh, I must be reporting distributors price of, you know, you know how they always, it always seems like there's an MSRP and then it seems like the distributors are like $200 less.
Speaker: It's kind of like the street level, right?
Speaker: And that's how Patterson, you know, in This Week in Pinball, that's how he talks about it is when he says, this is what the street price is.
Speaker: This is basically what you expect to pay, but yeah.
Speaker: But still, it's an amazing package.
Speaker: Yeah, obviously we're in Australia, so we've got different pricing and we've got an exchange rate, which is still pretty low.
Speaker: We're getting 73 US cents to our dollar.
Speaker: So as pricing has only gradually gone up for you and has gone up
Speaker: probably significantly more for us.
Speaker: And I haven't seen the pricing just yet.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So I was kind of calculating today because I'm going to be ordering the premium.
Speaker: I'm really fascinated by that.
Speaker: Not that I'm not about the LE.
Speaker: Listen, I don't want to knock anything on this game.
Speaker: I just don't like the color yellow.
Speaker: So that's why LE is out for me.
Speaker: I'm not a fan of other people.
Speaker: It pops.
Speaker: It's great.
Speaker: It looks good.
Speaker: It does nothing for me.
Speaker: But...
Speaker: You know, you talked about the side armor and the shaker motor, the Invisiglass, the better sound system.
Speaker: I'm like, I like all those things.
Speaker: But I was in on the premium anyway.
Speaker: That cost in Canada is about $11.5 after tax.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Well, let's just address that really quick.
Speaker: The only two complaints I've heard of this whole situation, even my wife said.
Speaker: I posted this morning and I got home.
Speaker: I thought I was going to surprise her with this video.
Speaker: And she's like, yeah, I already saw it.
Speaker: And the first thing she says, she says, I hate the yellow.
Speaker: It just depends on the room you're putting it in, right?
Speaker: Like it might work for some rooms.
Speaker: It might not for others.
Speaker: And if it really stands out, it could be a little bit of an eyesore.
Speaker: But that's... If you're working on your tan, absolutely it will help you.
Speaker: You know what?
Speaker: This is going right next to my yellow book road.
Speaker: There you go.
Speaker: Or if you've got a McDonald's move, Tief, you know, maybe that'll fit well with the reds and the yellows.
Speaker: What was the other complaint?
Speaker: The second complaint, the only other complaint I've heard is people are frustrated that it's Avengers.
Speaker: They feel like it's already been done before.
Speaker: Yeah, that's what I'm hearing is that it's tired.
Speaker: Not that it's like a bad theme.
Speaker: It's just a tired theme.
Speaker: They were wanting Led Zeppelin to come out because that's a relevant band now, right?
Speaker: Hey, hey, hey, hey.
Speaker: Shots fired, Jeff.
Speaker: Yeah, hold on a second here.
Speaker: Did you hear what I did to Zach Manny when he made fun of Hart?
Speaker: Don't you dare badmouth like Jeff.
Speaker: Oh, oh, oh.
Speaker: You know, it's true.
Speaker: I was waiting for Rush to come out, so.
Speaker: I'm all in on Rush if that ever happens, but don't knock Zep.
Speaker: The point is, with Avengers, and especially the comic book,
Speaker: there are a lot of options you can do, a lot of different characters.
Speaker: You know, one thing I always liked about X-Men was all the different characters you could see.
Speaker: And again, because it was comic art and not movie rights, you could do a lot more.
Speaker: And I think that's the great thing about this game.
Speaker: First of all, it's going to be the top seller of the year by far.
Speaker: Here's the game of the year.
Speaker: It's already done.
Speaker: Hand it over.
Speaker: Congratulations.
Speaker: That's the kind of feedback we're getting right now.
Speaker: But what I really think about this is, again, because it's the comic art,
Speaker: I think this is a game you're going to be seeing manufactured for a long time.
Speaker: This is probably an easier re-up to vault this game.
Speaker: Oh, absolutely.
Speaker: Well, and I feel like it's timeless.
Speaker: I mean, you look at the Avengers from 2013.
Speaker: The art and stuff from that, you feel like it's stuck in that era, which, I mean, it's only a decade ago because the original movie came out in, what, 2010, 2011?
Speaker: But with this, the comic book art will always...
Speaker: transition era to era with seamlessly because you don't have to look at that and go oh well that movie's now you don't automatically have that subconscious of you know this movie's already 20 years old or 30 years old
Speaker: Yeah, you're really handcuffed when you have the movie rights art, I mean, or television art.
Speaker: Listen, you know, what Greg Ferriss just talked about, Game of Thrones, how they were limited.
Speaker: They had to do that kind of clip art stuff.
Speaker: The same with the original Star Wars one.
Speaker: Here's some Photoshop, here's some this and that.
Speaker: You know, when they came out with a comic pin, I was like, okay, I'm kind of cool on that.
Speaker: Same with this one too.
Speaker: So speaking of comic, can someone explain to me what Infinity Quest is?
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Josh tried this yesterday and woefully missed.
Speaker: So he's done some research.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I was going to say, just give me two seconds.
Speaker: I want to apologize for the episode we just released.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: No kidding.
Speaker: I heard that.
Speaker: So the one I was talking about is not actually called Infinity War.
Speaker: The one I was talking about is actually called Annihilation.
Speaker: Infinity Quest is the lead up to... It's gathering the Infinity Stones for Thanos so he can then use the gauntlet to do the snap.
Speaker: But it is a comic book series of its own?
Speaker: Is that what it is?
Speaker: So there's three eras.
Speaker: I'm going to pull out my super nerd card right now.
Speaker: There's three eras of comic books.
Speaker: There is the Golden Era, which is kind of that...
Speaker: That Superman, the original Batman, that type of thing.
Speaker: And then in the 70s, they transitioned to more of what's called the Silver Age.
Speaker: And that's when you get those really fantastical ones.
Speaker: Just think of like Flash Gordon or stuff like that where it's your...
Speaker: time traveling, you're going to other planets, you're doing all these crazy things.
Speaker: And then somewhere in the late 80s, early 90s, they transitioned to what's the modern era.
Speaker: And that's really when you get into the Deadpool, that type of stuff.
Speaker: And so this is solely locked in the 70s era.
Speaker: And the
Speaker: that's one reason why the art actually ties in really well.
Speaker: But yes, they had this big meta crossover.
Speaker: So it was a way for them to license and sell multiple different comic books simultaneously.
Speaker: And so they would have the same storyline.
Speaker: Basically, just think of how the Marvel Cinematic Universe is.
Speaker: They would sell the Captain America one, but really to get the next episode of that storyline, you would have to buy the Iron Man and then you would get the Black Widow and then you'd get the Avengers.
Speaker: And so
Speaker: It was really a way to sell a whole bunch of different comic books from the different things.
Speaker: And hopefully after the storyline was over, you would continue on with it.
Speaker: And so that's the reason why you have all of the characters coming together for one common quest.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So for me personally, I would agree with those two negatives.
Speaker: I really don't like the yellow trim.
Speaker: And I'm not really all that excited about the theme, but that's two out of 100 features of this game that the remainder are all blowing my mind.
Speaker: You know, when we talk about, you know, the theme doesn't do it for me.
Speaker: How many people a couple of years ago said, I'm not into Iron Maiden and it didn't matter.
Speaker: You know, maybe you became an Iron Maiden fan or whatever.
Speaker: You were just so enamored with how great the gameplay was.
Speaker: And we haven't even played the game.
Speaker: We haven't even seen it playing.
Speaker: We've been watching a two minute video of it and we're, we're wow.
Speaker: We're like, holy cow, look at all the different things on that game.
Speaker: Look at how many shots.
Speaker: My favorite thing about, I don't know if it's my favorite thing.
Speaker: It's one of my favorite things about Keith is,
Speaker: is how he makes upper flippers do so many different things.
Speaker: And a lot of games from not even too many years ago, that upper flipper did one thing.
Speaker: It was a side ramp.
Speaker: That's it.
Speaker: There wasn't a lot there.
Speaker: Think of Spider-Man.
Speaker: Really, just one shot.
Speaker: Sure, you can maybe hit the visor if you want.
Speaker: Maybe you can hit it late and go for Green Goblin, which is not a wise shot.
Speaker: You don't want to hit that lock shot with...
Speaker: the side flipper.
Speaker: That's a missed shot if you're hitting it from that upper flipper.
Speaker: But really, there was just one shot there.
Speaker: Look at how many shots we've seen just in that video of that upper left flipper.
Speaker: I love it.
Speaker: You saw it in Iron Man, you see it in Jurassic Park, and now here with Avengers Infinity Quest.
Speaker: Well, and I like that as you watch the video, there's different feeds that we're not used to.
Speaker: They talk about an industry first of the right orbit.
Speaker: I want to say there's a ramp right next to the gauntlet shot, which is that upper flipper shot.
Speaker: And I can't remember what the last shot is, but all three of them feed into the left wire form and come right back to your right flipper.
Speaker: And so that's something different I don't think we've seen before as well.
Speaker: By the way, I don't know how quickly this podcast comes out, but if you can invest in stock in wire form, it's going to go through the roof.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Holy cow.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I'm just counting up the wire form right now.
Speaker: One, two, three, four, five.
Speaker: Well, I guess... It's airborne-like.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Actually, what it reminds me of is it reminds me of there was a... It was some 70s thing because it was like in the 80s and there was a house that was kind of abandoned.
Speaker: And so, you know, as kids do, we would just like go and walk around in an abandoned house.
Speaker: And there was this old game there and it had all these...
Speaker: this wire form, and I thought it was the most amazing thing in the world.
Speaker: This kills that compared to how many different shots.
Speaker: And in retrospect, it probably just had like two shots that were wire form.
Speaker: But this is, you know, this looks like an amusement park.
Speaker: If you look at Avengers Amusement Park, like a roller coaster tycoon thing, where it just has these things going all over the place.
Speaker: It's amazing.
Speaker: This seems like the first game where
Speaker: It it has the you know, we've seen these horseshoe ramps that come back at you, but this is the first one that seems to take it and elevate me almost make a vertical game without being so overtly vertical.
Speaker: Does that make sense?
Speaker: Yes, like like like the way the way the ramps are going, it's the ball is moving in ways that it never has.
Speaker: Yeah, so sort of the pinball circus-ish without the four layers.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: I get what you mean.
Speaker: Rather than it just being sort of horizontal gameplay, you're actually getting a lot of vertical play, including the Avengers magnet lock, you know, vertical.
Speaker: Yeah, the very target.
Speaker: Yeah, that's a very target.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Well, okay.
Speaker: And what about this, I don't know, this chubby ramp that you have on the upper right?
Speaker: Well, that's the thing that's amazing about it is that you can hit it with all three flippers.
Speaker: Correct.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So it's creating an arc for each of those three angles that you go with it.
Speaker: So the question that keeps weighing in on my mind, as I've watched the videos, I don't know how many times now, if you take the premium and the pro, you sit right next to each other.
Speaker: I know we kind of talked at the very beginning that you feel like the premium is way more packed than the pro.
Speaker: But if you strip down gameplay wise, let's take the toys off the table and just do gameplay.
Speaker: The only real difference between the pro and the premium is
Speaker: is the Captain Marvel inverted ramp.
Speaker: And then Hank Pym, so it's that far right shot that's on the Pro, it's a stand-up target.
Speaker: And on the Premium, it's actually a scoop or an upkicker.
Speaker: Those are really the only two differences.
Speaker: What about the Doctor Strange subway?
Speaker: Yeah, Doctor Strange disc that rises up.
Speaker: That's major.
Speaker: I did think of that, but really the only difference, yeah, you're shooting a ball into a hole, but the subway still comes out the same place as Pim's and Captain Marvel's shot.
Speaker: But it's a different shot.
Speaker: Yeah, it doesn't raise with the Pro.
Speaker: It's just a spinning disc.
Speaker: Okay, I'll give you that.
Speaker: So do you think that's enough to make it feel like the whole game is different?
Speaker: Or do you think that it's going to be close enough to a pro that if you're fine with no toys, well, not no toys, but if you're fine with kind of the stripped down of the toys, you're going to get just as good product with the pro as you do the premium gameplay wise?
Speaker: No.
Speaker: Of course, it's not as good as the premium, but let's just say there wasn't a premium and you were just looking at the pro.
Speaker: The premium doesn't exist.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: You would say this is amazing.
Speaker: Like compare this to anything they released in the last 15 years and maybe take out Jurassic Park, maybe take out Iron Maiden.
Speaker: But even the pro version of this, I think, would blow people away.
Speaker: Agree.
Speaker: Agree.
Speaker: I still think there is enough on the premium that separates it from the pro more than most Stern releases.
Speaker: I totally agree, Martin.
Speaker: That's the thing.
Speaker: I've never been...
Speaker: really motivated to buy a premium for game differences.
Speaker: You know, uh, I'll think of black night sort of rage when that first came out, I'm like, well, black nights gotta have an upper play field.
Speaker: And then I saw it and I was like, okay, I, I, I think of black night and I think of upper play fields.
Speaker: I don't really care that much about it.
Speaker: It's, it's, it's just not a lot to do up there.
Speaker: And, you know, old code, not now they've since fixed it.
Speaker: You could stay up there, stay up there.
Speaker: I was like, eh, it doesn't do it for me.
Speaker: Um,
Speaker: Anything with lower player fields, upper play fields, you got to be lights out to really change.
Speaker: Game of Thrones, give me the pro.
Speaker: I'd much rather play the pro just for the flow of that game, especially when we're talking Steve Ritchie games.
Speaker: You want that fast flow.
Speaker: Anything that slows it down, not really that big on it.
Speaker: Yeah, I think what you're saying is if you're going to add something play field wise that changes the game, make sure it's good.
Speaker: And what's been added here looks really cool.
Speaker: And I think that's where I've been torn is, do I go with the pro or do I go with the premium?
Speaker: The premium, I love that under the playfield subway, being able to see those balls and stuff like that.
Speaker: But at the end of the day, is it going to feel much more different?
Speaker: Because let's take Jurassic Park.
Speaker: That's a similar situation.
Speaker: You've got a T-Rex that diverts the ball and throws it away.
Speaker: And then you've got the Raptor pit.
Speaker: But other than that, there isn't too much difference.
Speaker: Do you feel like it'll be a similar situation in that regard?
Speaker: No, not at all.
Speaker: This is way more than that.
Speaker: This is way different.
Speaker: The Jurassic Park, those were all cosmetic things.
Speaker: The Raptor pit was a little bit different, but still the same gameplay.
Speaker: This is different gameplay.
Speaker: Yeah, I think that right...
Speaker: vertical ramp, whatever you want to call it, gravity defying ramp, whatever.
Speaker: I don't think you will ever get sick of seeing that happen.
Speaker: Yeah, Josh, you're going to want the premium on this one.
Speaker: Actually, and I agree with you, Jeff, about the Black Knight.
Speaker: I actually think the Pro is the better game.
Speaker: I have more fun with the Pro than I do with the premium just because it is a much more lightning fast game and I have a better time.
Speaker: Same thing, I guess I would say the same thing about Game of Thrones.
Speaker: I think the upper play field actually takes away from my experience as opposed to adding it.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It's better now with the newer code.
Speaker: That upper section on Game of Thrones means a lot more.
Speaker: But again, I would also go to the Pro.
Speaker: Well, and it's funny because I'm not trying to convince you guys to go to the Pro.
Speaker: I really do think the premium is the better.
Speaker: That gauntlet in the top right corner is just perfect with the lit up gems and everything.
Speaker: And I know that has nothing to do with the gameplay, but the premium feels just like the right machine for your home.
Speaker: But again, that's what the price difference is too.
Speaker: So, I mean, you're paying an extra $1,600 American for the, for those extra features.
Speaker: I think that's good value.
Speaker: Whereas to me, and this is just me on Jurassic Park, a moving dinosaur in a different raptor pit wasn't $1,600 difference for me.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Well, and for me it was because I wanted the wow factor of that is an awesome experience.
Speaker: And everyone comes over, like the kids all come over and they're like, hey, that thing eats the ball.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker: I agree.
Speaker: I know it's only cosmetic and it throws the ball around, but the T-Rex, it actually has a wow factor and it makes you feel.
Speaker: I'm always about how these machines, which are literally just –
Speaker: wires and wood and mechanics.
Speaker: It's how they make you feel.
Speaker: And the Raptor makes you, the Raptor, the T-Rex makes you feel good because it is just such a wow factor.
Speaker: I think just a ramp, the ramp on this, on the Premium LE has that same sort of wow factor.
Speaker: And I just remember when I first saw, I just went, how, how not, well, not necessarily how is that even possible, but why has that not been done before?
Speaker: That is so freaking cool.
Speaker: Yeah, it seems like when, you know, in the Olympics, when they did the moguls and everyone was doing the same tricks.
Speaker: And then you had Johnny Mosley in 2002 when he did the back then you couldn't go inverted, but he actually did a double flip and went on his side and it was completely different than anybody else.
Speaker: And it was the same type of thing.
Speaker: Why has no one tried to push the sport?
Speaker: Now they can do barrel flips and whatever they want.
Speaker: I say we end all pinball talk now and just talk about mogul skiing for the rest of the podcast.
Speaker: You know what?
Speaker: Exactly.
Speaker: You can, you know what?
Speaker: Actually, let's talk about hockey, eh?
Speaker: No, because Canadian teams suck this year, so we don't need to do that.
Speaker: Well, we can talk about the Phoenix Coyotes because that's a huge hotbed for hockey right down there.
Speaker: All right, so let's talk about some of the other features.
Speaker: Martin kind of touched on this a little bit earlier, but what is everyone's general thoughts of the zombie Yeti artwork?
Speaker: I kind of agree with what Martin was saying earlier.
Speaker: To me, out of everything he's done, and I've been impressed with, I really like his art style.
Speaker: I think this is his best.
Speaker: And I thought Turtles was pretty darn good.
Speaker: And that was just a few months ago.
Speaker: But this one really, you know, I really looked at a lot of the different characters, showed it to my son, who's a massive Marvel fan.
Speaker: And he was just like, oh, there's that, there's that, there's that.
Speaker: And just he was pretty wild.
Speaker: And it didn't look too busy.
Speaker: And sometimes I've always felt that when you throw too many things in there, it does look too busy.
Speaker: Martin, I think you agree as well.
Speaker: This looked just perfect.
Speaker: It was nice.
Speaker: I will agree with you guys.
Speaker: I feel like the pages of a Marvel comic leapt out and landed right onto the play field.
Speaker: I personally mean, I still think the Turtles is better.
Speaker: I'm biased, though, because Turtles is my favorite thing.
Speaker: And honestly, after...
Speaker: After Turtles came out, I went back with my son.
Speaker: We rewatched the series.
Speaker: And it almost makes the old 87s cartoons look worse.
Speaker: Because Zombie A did so well.
Speaker: And so I really, really do like the artwork.
Speaker: It's neck and neck with me.
Speaker: I really think that this is some of his... This year, I mean, hands down, easily, this year is his best year of artwork that he's produced for Pinball.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Ironically, he actually might not get art of the year because you're voting on two, you're, you're voting on two games.
Speaker: So he's actually going to have his vote divided between turtles and Avengers.
Speaker: Well, he'll win on one of them then.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So far, but that is a good point.
Speaker: You know, I think I, I remember,
Speaker: There was a, when Deadpool won something over Iron Maiden, that was a shocker.
Speaker: I just can't remember which Twip award it was.
Speaker: And then the more I thought about it, I'm like, yeah, I guess that was kind of a coin flip.
Speaker: This is the same for sure.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I also think it's funny because these are both kind of geared towards younger people in a sense, right?
Speaker: The last two themes, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and Avengers.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: For older guys like Martin, and I'm getting there, this is not exactly our wheelhouse, but...
Speaker: I'm impressed.
Speaker: You know, people are fathers with kids and the kids are excited by it.
Speaker: It's kind of neat.
Speaker: Like, so I wonder, as you look at a lot of the people that buy these games, especially the premiums and the LEs that have maybe a little more income as you get older and accumulate that kind of stuff as, you know, over 40, over 50, which theme is going to be more appealing to them?
Speaker: Comics have been around a long time.
Speaker: You know, for me, I just seconds ago turned 50 and I, Mutant Turtles was nothing for me.
Speaker: My younger brother, who's six years younger than me, he liked it, but I never played with the toys, never saw that stuff.
Speaker: I can't tell you, I know who the four guys are.
Speaker: I don't know which is which.
Speaker: I don't know what color Leonardo is or Raphael or Donatello or Michelangelo.
Speaker: I know their names.
Speaker: No idea.
Speaker: No idea the supporting cast just wasn't it for me.
Speaker: You know who April O'Neil is.
Speaker: From Turtles or?
Speaker: Never mind.
Speaker: Yes, I do.
Speaker: But it was not a thing, you know, but as a kid, I knew who Captain America was.
Speaker: I knew who Iron Man was.
Speaker: I probably didn't know who Thanos was, but I mean, I certainly have from the movie.
Speaker: So more appeal, I think, in this one.
Speaker: I think this one is perfect because it, it straddles that it's, it's like turtles where turtles is relevant now, but the, the turtles they released is the throwback is the same thing with ghostbusters.
Speaker: The ghostbusters movie came out maybe for a modern generation, but,
Speaker: versus us that remembers this.
Speaker: This is the Avengers.
Speaker: And so people who are young know who the Avengers are.
Speaker: But this one is really stuck in the 70s.
Speaker: And I'm not saying that's a bad thing.
Speaker: I actually say that's a good thing because people look at that and say, man, I'm once again that 12-year-old kid who wants the coolest toy on the planet.
Speaker: You're sure about that 70s thing, right?
Speaker: Well, the comic arc is from 1993.
Speaker: So I don't know why Scott keeps saying 70s.
Speaker: Infinity War?
Speaker: Infinity Quest, yes.
Speaker: Infinity War and Infinity Gauntlet are both from 1993.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Well, maybe I'm thinking of a secret.
Speaker: Let's go back to moguls, all right?
Speaker: So back in the day... But the point being is, I mean, okay, Superman and Batman, one of the very first, most recognizable superheroes that were ever released are from 1933?
Speaker: 1938.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So you've you're that's almost 100 years worth of recognition.
Speaker: I mean, grandpa should be able to see, you know, the whole can go.
Speaker: Well, I saw that because there used to be the TV show when I was younger.
Speaker: And I feel like this is cross generational in the fact that, you know, Avengers might feel like it's the new hip thing, but it's been around for years.
Speaker: It's not that we're targeting this because the four movies came out in the last decade.
Speaker: Okay, think of this, Josh.
Speaker: Think about you're going to an arcade.
Speaker: It's now post-COVID-19.
Speaker: Arcades are happening.
Speaker: You've got games sitting there in a lineup.
Speaker: And you see Turtles.
Speaker: You see Avengers.
Speaker: They're both going to catch your eye, I would think.
Speaker: Especially if it's banana yellow.
Speaker: Well, I wonder if that's part of the reason for that.
Speaker: Maybe.
Speaker: It certainly makes it pop.
Speaker: Yes, it does.
Speaker: Yeah, but you're not going to see an LE in an arcade typically.
Speaker: No, no.
Speaker: Sorry, but I cut you off.
Speaker: Keep going.
Speaker: No, I just, again, these are both kind of wow titles.
Speaker: Again, the brilliant marketing and licensing titles.
Speaker: These are games that are going to have mass appeal.
Speaker: I mean, yeah, I don't know.
Speaker: I have personally never bought an Avengers or Marvel comic.
Speaker: I know who all the characters are, whether you say from the old TV shows, but the movies, even though this is the comic version, the movies made millions and millions.
Speaker: Everybody saw all those movies.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Well, and I think they benefit from the movies as well.
Speaker: I don't know what the agreement with Marvel was.
Speaker: Sorry, this is nitpicking, but Infinity Quest and Infinity War were all based off of two main characters that aren't even on this pinball machine.
Speaker: So it's kind of weird to me that we've done the comic version, but it's all the movie characters, if that makes sense.
Speaker: Adam Warlock, which he was... Oh, what's the best way to explain him?
Speaker: What's that?
Speaker: Jesus Christ Superstar?
Speaker: Do you remember that?
Speaker: Andrew Lloyd Webber from the 70s.
Speaker: That's that's what Adam Warlock was based off of.
Speaker: That's that's his character.
Speaker: And then the Silver Surfer, which is the Fantastic Four slash whatnot.
Speaker: And he's not on there as well.
Speaker: Those two two main characters are like the whole reason.
Speaker: This whole comic arc happens.
Speaker: Hmm.
Speaker: Huh?
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: See, but it's not going to be a complaint, but I find it, I find it interesting.
Speaker: Sorry.
Speaker: I just find it interesting that we throw it back to the comics and mates because they knew they were getting zombie Yeti artwork, but we're, we're using the movie characters in place.
Speaker: Yeah, it's probably just an easier way of doing it to say that we're using the Marvel assets.
Speaker: Could you imagine what licensing nightmare this would have been to get the likeness rights from about 90 different people who have been in the Marvel movies?
Speaker: Well, every time you saw Iron Man in any games, whether it's the Avengers original game from 13 or from Gomez or even the actual Iron Man game that's been vaulted several times, you don't see Robert Downey Jr. It's the costume.
Speaker: So do you need that?
Speaker: No.
Speaker: You know, it doesn't have to be Chris Evans for Captain America.
Speaker: You know it's Captain America.
Speaker: Hulk has been, you know, it's the big character.
Speaker: It's not Mark Ruffalo.
Speaker: So it doesn't matter.
Speaker: I mean, these characters are iconic.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Love seeing Black Panther in there too.
Speaker: That was, that was great.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I actually just watched Black Panther again today.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Especially as one of the main characters.
Speaker: If you notice, there's six right there in the middle of the play field, Hulk, Iron Man, Black Widow, Thor, Black Panther, and I can't remember the other one.
Speaker: But there is multiple heroes all around that.
Speaker: I assume that maybe it's like Batman 66 where there's a supporting cast of villains, the main villains.
Speaker: Yeah, may team ups or something like that.
Speaker: But Black Panther is one of the main six.
Speaker: And I thought that was very awesome as well.
Speaker: Oh, Captain America.
Speaker: Sorry, that's the sixth one.
Speaker: Think of what's going to happen.
Speaker: And we're obviously speculating right now, but look what he's done with the code.
Speaker: with Jurassic Park and how you can now basically play the wizard mode and the speed runs, Neblar and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker: Imagine what he's going to be able to do with this, with everything on that play field.
Speaker: Some of the things that'll be coming down the pipe.
Speaker: It's pretty exciting.
Speaker: Yeah, that's crazy.
Speaker: So has that upper flipper to the ramp that feeds right back to the flipper, has that been done before on any other pinball machine?
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: You mean it keeps feeding back to the upper flipper?
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: I guess you could say that the warp loop on Star Trek?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Okay, I guess, yeah.
Speaker: And even it does the same thing in Turtles, where it's kind of that warp ramp feel, where it just gets going so fast, if you get two shots, you're lucky.
Speaker: Iron Maiden, Shadow.
Speaker: Yeah, Roller Games does it.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: I didn't know with that feeding right in front of you versus, like, you know, in Star Trek, it feeds back behind and back to the shot versus this one.
Speaker: It's kind of like showing off the ball in front of you instead of kind of.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Anywho.
Speaker: It's one subtle thing, but it's one thing I love about this design too.
Speaker: First of all, I like the uniqueness of the design, but when you look at that upper flipper, it's not flush against a plastic.
Speaker: It's, it's, it's in the middle.
Speaker: Like you can hit the Hulk spinner behind the flipper.
Speaker: You know, when he did Iron Maiden, it was right up against the wall there that you couldn't go behind it.
Speaker: And I love, I love kind of how, you know, you have to be a little more accurate with your shots.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: to make the Hulk spinner, you know, to, I think it's really cool.
Speaker: It just, it makes, I, when I see any kind of new game, the first thing I look at is how many different shots there are in the game.
Speaker: And, you know, you look at the bottom left where, okay, I can hit that, that, that, that same with the right.
Speaker: And now the upper flipper, there are a lot of shots on this game.
Speaker: Yeah, that's true.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: It's so packed.
Speaker: I was sitting there thinking this almost feels like a wide body with so many shots in a, in a standard layout.
Speaker: It's perfect.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I know what you mean.
Speaker: This is the new standard for Stern.
Speaker: Do you think the other designers hate Keith Allen?
Speaker: I don't think so.
Speaker: I just bug him.
Speaker: No, no.
Speaker: I think they probably get sick of hearing that he's the best designer.
Speaker: Well, okay.
Speaker: So for example, though, is that don't you think this pushes them into new levels?
Speaker: Because if you look at Stern was dying in the 2000s.
Speaker: They were dying and then... But the industry was.
Speaker: It wasn't so much Stern.
Speaker: It was just the whole... Yeah, well, okay.
Speaker: Well, that was the only option, right?
Speaker: And they were the only ones manufacturing for 10 years.
Speaker: And then... One would say they kept it alive, though.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: No, what I'm saying is that
Speaker: really toward the end of 2000, I mean, they were producing great games like Wheel of Fortune and and who doesn't want a Wheel of Fortune in their collection?
Speaker: And in Big Buck Hunter, I mean, they really were on fumes.
Speaker: And then Jersey Jack came out and said, well, this is what you should be doing.
Speaker: And then it supercharged Stern into going into a different level that we didn't even know was possible.
Speaker: I think Keith is having the same effect on them right now is that he is reinvigorating experienced designers to relook at their process.
Speaker: That's a very good point because I love Jersey Jack games.
Speaker: I think they're so well built and there's so much involved in each of the games.
Speaker: And yeah, they made Stern step up their game when they came up with Wizard of Oz and subsequently with everything else.
Speaker: So I think you're right.
Speaker: Keith's probably making designers go, okay, you know, we got to have a little more than just that regular, you know, two orbits, one ramp, battalion bottom, all that kind of stuff.
Speaker: I agree with you.
Speaker: And I may be saying something a little bit controversial, but I think that was probably the reason why people were a little bit cool on the likes of, well, let's say Black Knight and even Stranger Things, where they came out and, you know what, they're good machines.
Speaker: They, you know, have shots.
Speaker: But are they really pushing the envelope when it comes to geometry and shot variation?
Speaker: Probably not.
Speaker: They were probably just still more of the same, a bit of an evolution, but not a revolution.
Speaker: This is the revolution.
Speaker: I agree.
Speaker: So Jeff, you're in the music industry.
Speaker: I am?
Speaker: Loosely.
Speaker: Loosely?
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: I mean, you're an exotic dancer.
Speaker: You've got bad taste in music.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: You're right.
Speaker: Oh, wow.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Ask me any question about Kraftwerk.
Speaker: Go ahead.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: I have no idea what you're talking about.
Speaker: Nobody does.
Speaker: Nobody does.
Speaker: I do.
Speaker: But then again, me and Martin talk behind the scenes.
Speaker: Oh, wow.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So two things.
Speaker: One, when Nirvana came out with Nevermind, what happened to the music scene?
Speaker: Grunge became quite popular.
Speaker: I remember David Coverdale of Whitesnake quoting saying the first time he watched Smells Like Teen Spirit, he knew his career was over.
Speaker: That was his quote.
Speaker: That's exactly what happened because everybody was listening to, I would say, probably the same old stuff.
Speaker: But Guns N' Roses rode that out for five years.
Speaker: It was this big...
Speaker: Big sunset to the glam rock era.
Speaker: And then when Nirvana came out and said.
Speaker: But guns took it to another level too.
Speaker: No, they did.
Speaker: Yeah, the same thing was said about guns as it was about Nirvana.
Speaker: When they came out, it was just like, holy cow.
Speaker: Okay, this is a little bit different than the video pop things that you see.
Speaker: Because the problem with the 80s was it was more about how you looked than how you sound.
Speaker: So where guns came in, they had the look, but they definitely had the sound and the chops and the writing and all that other stuff.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But then when Nirvana came out, it like that made you are exactly right.
Speaker: That made the entire 80s glam rock irrelevant.
Speaker: Everybody started chasing that.
Speaker: And in many ways, that's how this felt like in.
Speaker: In design, I really I'm even looking at the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles that I just got two weeks ago and I'm playing it and I'm thinking this feels different than the other board games I've had.
Speaker: And how long has Borg been designing?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And so this feels like he he has found a different gear that he hasn't used before.
Speaker: I agree.
Speaker: Yeah, Borg is a nice combination of unique shots you haven't seen before.
Speaker: And still, I think he's a great flow master as well, too.
Speaker: Yeah, you're getting... Again, I think you're right with the turtles.
Speaker: That's a nice play field, and there's a lot of action on there.
Speaker: I haven't played it yet.
Speaker: I'm dying to play the game.
Speaker: It's brutal.
Speaker: Well, the funny thing is, it's a combination of brutal and easy...
Speaker: Because I'm playing it alone in my basement and I'm playing four player team ups.
Speaker: So I'm thinking how far I can get.
Speaker: Josh is a better player, so he's gotten way deeper into the game, but it's fun.
Speaker: I like doing it.
Speaker: So I want to propose a question, and specifically I'm going to pose... Jeff and Scott, you're welcome to answer it, but I want to pose it to Martin because, Martin, you've owned an Iron Maiden.
Speaker: You own a Jurassic Park.
Speaker: Do you feel like we're on the third game now?
Speaker: Do you feel like you're starting to see a signature?
Speaker: Do you feel like there's certain, I'm going to call it Keith-isms, that you're starting to see flowing through these games?
Speaker: How...
Speaker: That is a really good question because there are some themes that come across, particularly upper flippers and shot variation.
Speaker: I think there's probably more similarities between Iron Maiden and Jurassic Park than this.
Speaker: I think this doesn't look and feel like either of those two, but those two have some similarities.
Speaker: Does that answer whether there's a style for Keith Elwin?
Speaker: Do you know what?
Speaker: I guess I could answer in saying it's not cookie cutter is what is the Elwin style.
Speaker: I agree.
Speaker: I agree that I don't feel like if you had these three right next to each other, that you would feel like you know exactly what type, you would feel that they work together, but it's not like, who's a good one to point out?
Speaker: Maybe Pat Lawler, you've got that shot.
Speaker: Scoop in front of the flipper.
Speaker: Yeah, that thing.
Speaker: And the Borg, it's always... I guess this isn't really part of the gameplay, but he always makes sure he has the three, the in lane and the two out lanes, or the five lanes in the bottom.
Speaker: With Keith, I don't feel like I...
Speaker: It bothers me when people say, oh, Iron Maiden is just, or Jurassic Park is just a rehash of Iron Maiden.
Speaker: I don't get that.
Speaker: Not at all.
Speaker: Not at all.
Speaker: No, not at all.
Speaker: There are some, if you overlaid them, there are some...
Speaker: shot directions that you could argue are in a similar location but they do completely different things it is it's now that the upper flipper does the the side ramp to that tower that comes back whereas on Iron Maiden it was a loop shot so it's the same location but doing something completely different that's the really the only similarity you can put there this is not like either of those
Speaker: I might have asked Keith because I heard a few rumblings about that wire form that goes from the right to the left and drops the ball on the play field.
Speaker: I said, you might get a few people saying, hey, is that going to wear that play field down?
Speaker: All the balls drop, drop, drop, same spot over and over.
Speaker: He said, don't you worry about it.
Speaker: Mylard, it's fine.
Speaker: Not a worry.
Speaker: So I know there are people asking about it and I'm sure it's on Pinside and stuff.
Speaker: Apparently not a concern with that.
Speaker: But
Speaker: Keith was on final round and he talked about he wants to make every game different.
Speaker: He definitely has with this game, but he said there are some consistencies.
Speaker: He loves at least three flippers.
Speaker: That I think you're going to always see.
Speaker: He said he will always have a spinner.
Speaker: And I think now that we're seeing this third game, I think it's going to happen for all of his games.
Speaker: You won't see a scoop because it slows the game down.
Speaker: So, I mean, the subway is different, but that's definitely more unique.
Speaker: Well, that was the first thing that came to my mind as well.
Speaker: Do you count the PIM upkicker as a scoop or not because it doesn't shoot it back at you?
Speaker: You probably would.
Speaker: You know, I don't know.
Speaker: It feels different.
Speaker: It feels a little more like a Spider-Man.
Speaker: I was thinking Star Trek premium when I saw it, but go ahead.
Speaker: Yeah, well, I like that it just is the different... It diverts the path of the ball after it stops it.
Speaker: However, I like the vertical upkicker way more than I like a scoop.
Speaker: The scoop always feels like... I don't know how...
Speaker: how consistent the shot's going to be.
Speaker: Even in my Tron, like the scoop that shoots back, I don't know if it's going to go straight down the middle or if it's going to hit my flipper.
Speaker: So I like a little bit of this consistency.
Speaker: I'm going to go back to your question on the Keith style.
Speaker: I would say...
Speaker: The vibe that I'm getting from Keith is that there are meaningful shots, multiple meaningful shots to be played by the upper flipper as opposed to a one trick pony.
Speaker: I know he doesn't like repeatable shots too.
Speaker: I can't repeat any of them.
Speaker: Well, backhandable, repeatable, those kind of chopping wood things that the competitive players talk about.
Speaker: He doesn't like things like that.
Speaker: He really, and again, we talked about how many different shots are.
Speaker: He wants you to use the whole different play field.
Speaker: And the big challenge when it comes with modes, he knows that from playing, that you want the modes to be worth something.
Speaker: You want people to not avoid a certain path.
Speaker: you want people to play the whole game, I think you're going to see that.
Speaker: See, that's the one thing I have forced myself with Turtles is you have to make that center ramp.
Speaker: It is a rough, rough shot to make.
Speaker: But Borg and Dwight have forced you to take that shot.
Speaker: You need to take that risk.
Speaker: And I appreciate that because I have World Cup soccer, which is a fairly easy game, but that right ramp...
Speaker: It's just so deadly.
Speaker: If you don't hit it just right and go up and around, it comes screaming back right down the middle.
Speaker: So I never shoot the right ramp.
Speaker: I effectively only shoot pretty much from the goalie to the left.
Speaker: And so I appreciate Keith making sure that every shot you've got to make and you can feel confident.
Speaker: How did he put on our episode, Scott?
Speaker: He said he wants you to feel like you can make the shots and then kick yourself in the butt if you miss them.
Speaker: Yeah, basically there's some level of difficulty where, you know, it's not easy.
Speaker: And he spreads those shots around.
Speaker: And that's one thing that I took home from that interview was there are easy shots.
Speaker: He knows that on Jurassic Park, that T-Rex shot is automatic for me.
Speaker: I can hit it every single time.
Speaker: Other shots, the right ramp is more difficult for me.
Speaker: And that Raptor Tower is, that is, if I get one out of 10 times, I'm lucky.
Speaker: However, when I hit it, it feels so good that, okay, I tried to do, I tried to take a deep shot and it worked.
Speaker: And so there is this reward for making those difficult shots, but not everything in the game is that hard.
Speaker: So I guess the ultimate question is, is anyone here, Scott's told us he's in on an LE, is anyone here considering or are you in on one of the models of this Avengers?
Speaker: That's interesting.
Speaker: I'm definitely in on the premium for sure.
Speaker: It's a done deal.
Speaker: Marty, I'm curious because I know Marty's got four games there and he's got really, really nice games.
Speaker: And I think he said recently that...
Speaker: Lord of the Rings is such a great game, but you're kind of done with it.
Speaker: So I wonder if this will come in.
Speaker: It's not exactly your theme though, is it?
Speaker: No.
Speaker: So I won't be getting this for a couple of reasons.
Speaker: I know a lot of people that are getting it, so I will be able to play it.
Speaker: But really it's just theme.
Speaker: For me to want to physically own a machine,
Speaker: I've got to feel a connection with the theme.
Speaker: So I don't with this, but I am desperate to play it.
Speaker: This just looks like the best Stern game they've ever made.
Speaker: They're going to have to redo that big showdown thing that they did online.
Speaker: Throw that one out and now put it up with people having not played the game.
Speaker: Correct.
Speaker: There's got to be some limitations on the Metallica stuff, though.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Don't share it to their fan page.
Speaker: But don't you like how they marketed this?
Speaker: Did you see who distributed it?
Speaker: It was Marvel who did that.
Speaker: Why not use that built-in audience?
Speaker: I think that's a great idea.
Speaker: Yeah, this will definitely debut on the Pinside Top 100 at number one.
Speaker: Yeah, and it may stay there for a while.
Speaker: This is one that I think has the potential to be a top three game for a long time.
Speaker: The only thing we haven't seen, we haven't seen the rules.
Speaker: I know, in Keith we trust.
Speaker: I think that, isn't Lonnie doing the code on this as well, I think?
Speaker: No, no, I don't think.
Speaker: Rick Nagel is your guy.
Speaker: And based on those six characters that you were mentioning earlier, does that mean there are six modes, six main modes?
Speaker: I know his idea was to make this a little more...
Speaker: complicated than Iron Maiden, but not as complicated as Jurassic Park.
Speaker: So somewhere in between there, maybe even for gameplay too.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: We'll have to see.
Speaker: Well, I do know the one thing that they did put in both trailers, Pro and Premium, is they talked about the Infinity Quests themselves and trying to obtain the six gems from Thanos before he gets them and snaps.
Speaker: And so I'm excited to see how that is integrated.
Speaker: That just...
Speaker: I don't know if you get, I can't wait to see what the bonuses are and stuff and how everything works.
Speaker: There is one thing though, Martin, that you said, there is one other thing we have not seen.
Speaker: And I know this is a make or break deal for some people because I seriously heard this on Teenage Mutant Turtles.
Speaker: I think it's absolutely stupid and ridiculous, but that's just my opinion.
Speaker: We haven't seen the animations yet.
Speaker: And, you know, that could be a deal breaker.
Speaker: Hmm.
Speaker: I based on everything they've done recently, I have a lot of faith.
Speaker: Their animation team is very, very good.
Speaker: That's, you know, you got me thinking about the, the gauntlet and the snap and the six stones.
Speaker: So if there are six modes, that's great that you play the modes, but my guess, and I have no knowledge of this, you probably have to complete the modes to prevent Thanos from getting those stones, which makes it again, what we talked about having to play the whole game, not just this quick path.
Speaker: You know, and I doubt they used the Zen Studios Infinity Gauntlet table as inspiration.
Speaker: I could be wrong.
Speaker: But the one thing I do love about that is each gem, when you start it, because there's a reality gem that messes with reality in that game.
Speaker: It reverses your flippers because that's messing with your reality.
Speaker: It would be cool to see some of that tied in.
Speaker: If not, oh well.
Speaker: I trust Keith.
Speaker: I know he's going to do a great job.
Speaker: I haven't been disappointed in any of his codes yet.
Speaker: You know, I kind of want to play as Thanos and I want to be gathering those stones.
Speaker: That's what I want to do.
Speaker: Maybe.
Speaker: What I want from this is what he was able to do on Jurassic Park versus Iron Maiden.
Speaker: And it was one of my criticisms that I had of Iron Maiden was I felt that I was locked into the same path each time.
Speaker: When it came to Jurassic Park, I had all these different options that I could choose at any particular time.
Speaker: That's what I want from this again is not feeling like I'm locked down a certain path that I have to play it a certain way that I've got choice.
Speaker: I totally agree.
Speaker: So Josh, we have just been talking for nine seconds under one hour.
Speaker: So in five seconds, I want you to tell me if you're going to get the premium or the pro you have two seconds.
Speaker: I'm, I'm getting a premium.
Speaker: Like I haven't texted Zach yet, but I'm figuring out a way how to get the premium.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I think anyone will be happy with the Pro.
Speaker: They're going to be ecstatic with the premium features.
Speaker: Let me tell you, the only downside you have with the premium, it is the last one they do on the production line.
Speaker: Which sucks.
Speaker: You have to wait the longest.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It's true, but here's the truth of it, though.
Speaker: The difference between me and Scott getting, I got my Pro and he got his premium was a week.
Speaker: The turtles we got about roughly at the same time.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I wonder if that's going to be the case because shows like this, which have mass appeal and millions of people are going to be listening to this podcast, they're going to hear people talk about the premium.
Speaker: Am I sure?
Speaker: Or is that not the right number?
Speaker: Anyway, I assume so.
Speaker: Yes, yes.
Speaker: Actually, we're in the billions.
Speaker: Excellent.
Speaker: Well, international, you got three countries here.
Speaker: The point is, I think they're going to hear a lot of people.
Speaker: It's a common theme.
Speaker: People talking about how the premium is just lights out better than the pro.
Speaker: They're going to get the LEs done.
Speaker: No question.
Speaker: But I wonder if they will go premiums before pros because a lot of the pros go to locations and stuff.
Speaker: Well, that doesn't really happen right now.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Oh yeah.
Speaker: Actually that, that's a great point is that they, uh, you're right.
Speaker: They, uh,
Speaker: They tried to get it on location to develop some buzz.
Speaker: People go and play the game.
Speaker: It's like, I want to buy this game.
Speaker: Well, right now that's not happening.
Speaker: That's a very good point, Jeff.
Speaker: I think they do the same thing they did with Turtles.
Speaker: I think this is a big enough seller that the pros still do go to certain locations that will still be open and that want this product.
Speaker: They'll do one run of pro, get the Ellie's out of the way, maybe do another quick run of pro and then work on the premiums like they did this last one.
Speaker: Oh, one thing we forgot to totally talk about.
Speaker: How amazing is it that the accessories video came out and you got to see the top or the same day reveal as the game?
Speaker: I haven't even seen it.
Speaker: I haven't seen it either.
Speaker: Oh, okay.
Speaker: Hold it, please.
Speaker: I was like, it released the exact same time as the game trailers.
Speaker: You are sponsored by flipping out.
Speaker: You're talking toppers.
Speaker: Holy moly.
Speaker: And I'm not a huge topper fan, but this is, this is big in my opinion.
Speaker: I mean, how long did it take?
Speaker: Where's the star Wars topper guy?
Speaker: He's somewhere around here.
Speaker: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker: So speaking of videos, let's talk about something.
Speaker: The fact that this was launched and there wasn't, first of all, there wasn't any leaked pictures of it, right?
Speaker: That's probably a first.
Speaker: Also, it doesn't look like a clean machine, if I'm being quite honest.
Speaker: But also, let's talk about the fact that you had your reveal video, which showed the Pro and the Premium.
Speaker: Then you had a Pro features video.
Speaker: Then you had a Premium LE features video.
Speaker: And you've got a game accessories trailer.
Speaker: They have nailed it, I think, with this launch.
Speaker: Well done, Zach.
Speaker: Do you also think that they've got the rumors under control too?
Speaker: Because I mean, think of Turtles.
Speaker: Turtles we knew of in about a year and a half in advance.
Speaker: I didn't know that they were coming out with another Marvel Avengers until a week before.
Speaker: And I definitely, I don't have any resources in the industry.
Speaker: Maybe you, Jeff, and you, Martin, had heard me rumblings before, but I just, it wasn't as rampant as it was.
Speaker: This game was not rampant as it has been in the past.
Speaker: When they actually said they were doing a Marvel theme, I mean, we talked about this.
Speaker: I was all in on Black Panther.
Speaker: I thought that was the obvious choice because I didn't think they would release redo Avengers so soon, except they did have those four movies.
Speaker: But still, that would shock me.
Speaker: I thought the go to was going to be Black Panther.
Speaker: So this totally blew me away.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Well, I do know.
Speaker: I didn't see anything before today.
Speaker: I do believe that there were some leaked pictures out there, but nobody shared them.
Speaker: So that's kind of different.
Speaker: There were some, yeah, a couple of weeks ago.
Speaker: And I'm...
Speaker: I said this to Zach Sharp today.
Speaker: I said, good job.
Speaker: I mean, this one kind of caught a lot of people off guard.
Speaker: You know, a lot of people have talked about the rumblings of things like Led Zeppelin and whatnot.
Speaker: And, you know, that wouldn't be a shock if that were to come out.
Speaker: But this one was a bit of a shock.
Speaker: And it's interesting because if they said the leak of the name before –
Speaker: What's the reaction?
Speaker: People are going to be like, oh, they've already done it.
Speaker: Is it a vault?
Speaker: When you just get to see it all at once, you're like, wow, okay.
Speaker: There was the teaser last week, but three days later, you get the actual video.
Speaker: Not a lot of rumblings, more curiosity, and not so much the instant negative complaints that people like to do when they're on those forums.
Speaker: I think this was really well done and a good kept secret.
Speaker: I am looking at that topper, by the way.
Speaker: Holy cow.
Speaker: It looks nice.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So I'm in on the topper and I'm getting the illuminated shooter rod.
Speaker: So I'm, this is all blingified.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: That topper is good.
Speaker: It's got the six stones on the bottom and, you know, a lot of plastic characters, but nice.
Speaker: I mean, it looks pretty good.
Speaker: And based on what we've seen with Stern, there's probably a mode attached to it.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: Do you guys have any closing remarks?
Speaker: I think we've kind of driven at home, but let's get some final wrap up thoughts.
Speaker: Slam dunk.
Speaker: Certainly wins the hype award.
Speaker: Graphically looks good.
Speaker: Looking forward to hearing the Jerry Thompson sound package.
Speaker: Like you say, the code is really the big, big thing for, you know, people like to play in competitions.
Speaker: You want to know that.
Speaker: First of all, you want to know what shoots well.
Speaker: looks fun to shoot and how the code's going to work.
Speaker: But it's kind of like, you know, when people say in linemen we trust, in Keith you have to trust because of his competition experience.
Speaker: So he knows how to make a game fun.
Speaker: You're going to probably have an easy multiball to start just like you do in his other games so that, you know, people...
Speaker: that aren't the greatest players are going to have some fun and get to see some different features, but it's going to be deeper and who knows what kind of risk reward will be there.
Speaker: I think this is going to be just an absolute winner for years to come.
Speaker: I totally agree.
Speaker: I, you know, we, we keep saying we don't know how Keith's going to outdo himself and he, he, he does every time.
Speaker: So I think it's amazing that it's not a shocker that it's just blown us out of the water.
Speaker: And so I can't wait.
Speaker: I can't wait to flip this.
Speaker: Um, I think, I think everyone else feels the same here.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Hey, well, you didn't get my take.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Go for it.
Speaker: We don't need it.
Speaker: Oh, but go ahead.
Speaker: I mean, the guest, your show, whatever.
Speaker: Well, considering it was the seventies theme that drove it home.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: You know, on a graph when, where the inflection point is, where it's going up, it's going up and it's getting steeper.
Speaker: And then there's one point where it just shoots straight up.
Speaker: I think this is that point in pinball where it's going to be marked by, you know, just as I would mark the pinball community as pinball.
Speaker: pre-JJP and post-JJP, I think we're going to see pre-Infinity Quest and post-Infinity Quest.
Speaker: I think this is such a revolution compared to anything we've seen before.
Speaker: You're going to see a major difference in every single game coming out.
Speaker: I mean, I hope so.
Speaker: That's good.
Speaker: Great.
Speaker: Better pinball.
Speaker: I'm all in.
Speaker: It's fantastic.
Speaker: This is just showing what can happen when things are even getting cooking.
Speaker: Like when the oven heats up so fast, you get a supernova.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: We've heard moguls.
Speaker: We've heard cooking.
Speaker: We've got a lot in this podcast.
Speaker: I know that you love just coming on with us.
Speaker: Yeah, you get Scottisms.
Speaker: We got Keithisms and Scottisms tonight, right?
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Can we get back to the bidet?
Speaker: I don't use it as much.
Speaker: Toilet paper, it's easier to find and stuff.
Speaker: I've got it there, but it's more for – it's like a treat once in a while.
Speaker: I'm like, you know what?
Speaker: Here.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: The bidet is a treat.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: That should be the title of this podcast.
Speaker: Oh, my goodness.
Speaker: Well, let's –
Speaker: Jeff, Martin, I love you guys to pieces.
Speaker: I really, honestly, I can't speak higher of you guys.
Speaker: You just, you guys are awesome in this hobby.
Speaker: We really appreciate you coming on.
Speaker: And where can people find you?
Speaker: Where do you want them to chit chat with you at?
Speaker: You can check us out at Final Round Pinball on Facebook, on Instagram, and on Twitter.
Speaker: That's news to me.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: I didn't know we had those.
Speaker: That's good.
Speaker: You can also check out Martin on Melbourne.
Speaker: You can also check out Martin on Melbourne Silver Ball, a great stream with a bunch of different streamers he's got on there.
Speaker: I occasionally do this thing on Pinball Profile, but we're having a lot of fun together on Final Round.
Speaker: I really enjoy that.
Speaker: And I don't know if you saw...
Speaker: you know, here you are doing this reaction to the streams.
Speaker: Well, we did a reaction to the reaction videos, Marty and I. And if you noticed, Marty was rocking the Loser Kid podcast hat, in fact.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: Best hat ever.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: Well, and I love that you're going out car shopping.
Speaker: You're showing off all, you know, you're sponsoring us during the sponsors to your sponsors.
Speaker: So that was awesome.
Speaker: That's right.
Speaker: It's like meta.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But no, we do appreciate, you know, like I said, I don't know if you guys have ever met Martin and Jeff personally, but these guys are just fantastic.
Speaker: If you ever see them in public, shake their hand.
Speaker: No, don't.
Speaker: It's COVID.
Speaker: Bear hug.
Speaker: Bear hug.
Speaker: Get away from us.
Speaker: Put on a mask.
Speaker: Take Marty for a gin.
Speaker: Jeff for his favorite.
Speaker: What is your favorite drink, Jeff?
Speaker: Fireball.
Speaker: Well, actually not true.
Speaker: My favorite drink is actually Dr. Pepper.
Speaker: Take him for Dr. Pepper.
Speaker: I'm a massive Dr. Pepper fan, but because it's 130 calories a can and I'm trying not to be so chubby, I've switched to Diet Pepsi, which is a fine alternative.
Speaker: But if you're talking booze, yeah, Fireball is certainly a lot of fun.
Speaker: You don't like the Diet Dr. Pepper?
Speaker: I mean, that's what I drink.
Speaker: It's okay.
Speaker: It's okay.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: Not the same.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: I, I, I'm a doc.
Speaker: I'm a diet Pepsi fan too.
Speaker: I'm not really a diet Coke fan.
Speaker: So.
Speaker: All right, Scott, you want to do the wrap-up for us?
Speaker: Sure.
Speaker: So check us out about every, well, about two to three weeks on the Loser Kid Pinball Podcast.
Speaker: If you want to reach out to us, we are readily available on Facebook.
Speaker: You can message the podcast page, Loser Kid Pinball, or you can message Josh or me.
Speaker: We actually respond quite quickly.
Speaker: We also have a Twitter handle and an Instagram page.
Speaker: feed.
Speaker: Josh, what's the Twitter handle and what's the Instagram feed?
Speaker: At LoserkidPinball and at LoserkidPinball.
Speaker: And certainly if you feel so inclined, hop on and give us a review, especially on iTunes.
Speaker: It does help our search rating.
Speaker: And please go and continue to check out Final Round Pinball on the TPN and certainly support all our friends.
Speaker: We appreciate again for Marty and Jeff to come on the show tonight and play good pinball.
Speaker: And if you're going to leave a review for the super awesome pinball show, please make sure it has the word satisfying and knocked it out of the park in the, in the review itself.
Speaker: So world, world under glass too.
Speaker: Can you add canned laughter to a review?
Speaker: Is that possible?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Thank you.
Speaker: Thank you guys so much.
Speaker: It's always a pleasure having you on.
Speaker: I guess we'll have to do this again soon sometime.
Speaker: Hey, anytime.
Speaker: Thanks guys.
Speaker: Shut up and sit down.
