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Ep 43: Podcasts Assemble! with Jeff Teolis and Martin Robbins
40 Plays5 years ago
We get our own Avengers team together and talk about the newly release pin, "Avenger's Infinity Quest"! Thanks to Jeff Teolis and Martin Robbins for joining us!
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Unexpected Episode
00:00:06
Speaker
Thanks for tuning in to the loser kid pinball podcast.
00:00:09
Speaker
This is episode 43.
00:00:10
Speaker
I know we just did one of these, but something happened just recently.
00:00:15
Speaker
And I figured let's, let's have another episode.
00:00:17
Speaker
So who do I got with me today?
Enthusiasm for Stern's Heavy Metal Pinball
00:00:19
Speaker
Well, you have Scott Larson and I'm super excited to talk about heavy metal and, and the new release that Stern is going to put out.
00:00:28
Speaker
So I'm totally in on a heavy metal game.
00:00:30
Speaker
Yeah.
00:00:32
Speaker
Oh, and really quickly, it's her new friends of the podcast.
00:00:35
Speaker
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:00:36
Speaker
Let me whip through those really, really quick.
00:00:38
Speaker
Flipping out pinball.
00:00:40
Speaker
I know Zach probably doesn't.
00:00:41
Speaker
He's had enough of his phone ringing off today.
00:00:42
Speaker
But if you want a new pinball machine, give him a call.
00:00:45
Speaker
This Week in Pinball with Jeff Patterson.
00:00:47
Speaker
Go check out their articles.
00:00:49
Speaker
Brian Allen with Flyland Assigns.
00:00:52
Speaker
If you want some nice artwork for your home, go check those out.
00:00:54
Speaker
And then if you want to stick that artwork in a nice frame, check out litframes.com with Brad Hunter.
00:01:00
Speaker
He's got some good stuff.
00:01:01
Speaker
That was quick enough, right?
00:01:02
Speaker
Man, that was fast.
00:01:05
Speaker
So, all right.
Introduction of Multinational Guests
00:01:07
Speaker
So Scott and I were like, let's do podcasts assemble, right?
00:01:11
Speaker
Because Avengers podcast, hey, it works, right?
00:01:15
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:01:15
Speaker
So who do we got with us, Scott?
00:01:18
Speaker
You know what?
00:01:18
Speaker
We brought in the A-team and we decided to go multinational here.
00:01:22
Speaker
So we have Scott and Josh from the United States and then coming in from down under, we have Mark.
00:01:32
Speaker
Let me try that again.
00:01:37
Speaker
And coming in from down under, we have Martin.
00:01:41
Speaker
How are you guys?
00:01:43
Speaker
Good morning.
00:01:44
Speaker
Good.
00:01:45
Speaker
That's true.
00:01:45
Speaker
It's from tomorrow.
00:01:46
Speaker
So you actually saw this reveal before we did.
00:01:50
Speaker
Yeah.
00:01:51
Speaker
About eight hours before you.
00:01:52
Speaker
Yeah.
00:01:52
Speaker
Pretty much.
00:01:53
Speaker
Right.
00:01:53
Speaker
Crazy.
Avengers Pinball Reveal Discussion
00:01:55
Speaker
And who else do we have on our multinational platform?
00:01:58
Speaker
Josh.
00:01:58
Speaker
Josh.
00:01:59
Speaker
We have Mr. Captain Canuck himself from the Marvel Universe, Jeff Teolas.
00:02:05
Speaker
The ginger from the north.
00:02:07
Speaker
Sorry, no Captain America.
00:02:08
Speaker
I'll take Captain Canuck.
00:02:09
Speaker
Oh, that's fine.
00:02:10
Speaker
Hey, Martin, are we okay being on the show?
00:02:12
Speaker
I heard those sponsors there.
00:02:14
Speaker
No car dealerships.
00:02:18
Speaker
I know, right?
00:02:19
Speaker
Yeah.
00:02:21
Speaker
We have high standards on Final Round Pinball Podcast, but it's a pleasure to be on with you guys here on LoserKid.
00:02:26
Speaker
You know what it is?
00:02:27
Speaker
It's because of Martin, man.
00:02:28
Speaker
He does those sponsorships so perfectly.
00:02:32
Speaker
It's like you're sitting on a beach, sipping your Bahama Mama or wherever you want, and he's just whispering sweet nothings into your talking about those sponsorships.
00:02:40
Speaker
It's beautiful.
00:02:41
Speaker
I'm pretty sure Bahama Mama is not gin.
00:02:44
Speaker
No.
00:02:45
Speaker
It is a song by Boney M. Jeff Teal.
00:02:48
Speaker
Oh, okay.
00:02:48
Speaker
You betcha.
00:02:50
Speaker
Thanks for having us on, guys.
00:02:51
Speaker
What a time to be talking about Pinball.
00:02:55
Speaker
It's kind of crazy, right?
Avengers Pinball Art and Design Appreciation
00:02:58
Speaker
So, uh, I, we had some teasers about, Hey, obviously it's been about, uh, well, it's been what three months.
00:03:04
Speaker
So it may be a little ahead, but, uh, they started floating out those teasers of, uh, stern assemble.
00:03:12
Speaker
And, uh, so Josh and I talked about this last night, but I want to know what you guys thought.
00:03:17
Speaker
And I don't know if you guys knew what was coming.
00:03:21
Speaker
I actually didn't.
00:03:22
Speaker
And so, uh, when you saw that teaser, what were you thinking?
00:03:26
Speaker
There's a teaser.
00:03:28
Speaker
Yeah.
00:03:30
Speaker
Pretty, I don't know, Martin, what'd you think?
00:03:32
Speaker
I was pretty impressed.
00:03:32
Speaker
I mean, what a great license to have.
00:03:35
Speaker
It's been successful before for pinball and for Stern.
00:03:39
Speaker
And I mean, there's just a world of possibilities you can do with the Avengers crew.
00:03:46
Speaker
So I was very, very excited.
00:03:49
Speaker
Yeah, look, going back to probably the original question, which was, you know, did we know?
00:03:53
Speaker
I knew it was going to be Avengers.
00:03:55
Speaker
I also knew, when I say I knew, we get told a lot of things.
00:04:00
Speaker
I've always been told a lot of things.
00:04:01
Speaker
And you don't really know until you see the official release that it's true.
00:04:07
Speaker
But in this particular case, all the information that I've been fed was true.
00:04:10
Speaker
I knew it was going to be Avengers.
00:04:11
Speaker
I knew it was going to be comic art.
00:04:14
Speaker
So I had some expectations.
00:04:17
Speaker
I wasn't expecting it to be this good.
00:04:22
Speaker
I mean, I knew it was Keith Elwin.
00:04:24
Speaker
I knew it was Zombie Yeti.
00:04:26
Speaker
But when you first look at it, honestly, my jaw dropped.
00:04:31
Speaker
I looked at it and went, wow, how is this possible?
00:04:34
Speaker
This layout just does not look like anything we've seen before.
00:04:40
Speaker
Well, and it's mind boggling, too, with it being Keith Owens third.
00:04:44
Speaker
This is three in three years.
00:04:47
Speaker
I mean, it makes you nervous because we talk about the sophomore slump and obviously he did fantastic with Jurassic Park.
00:04:53
Speaker
But then you hope that it's going to be amazing still and it comes out and you don't know how he does it every time.
00:05:02
Speaker
Layout-wise, this is my favorite of his three for sure.
00:05:05
Speaker
There's so many unique things.
00:05:06
Speaker
And the big thing I noticed was the major difference between the pro and the premium, where it really wasn't so much on the other two games.
00:05:14
Speaker
More cosmetic, you know, you've got a moving dinosaur.
00:05:16
Speaker
Okay, that's kind of cool.
00:05:17
Speaker
It doesn't really add much more to it.
00:05:19
Speaker
The raptor pit was the big thing that was more exciting on the premium and LE with Jurassic Park.
00:05:24
Speaker
Again, just cosmetic stuff really on Iron Maiden.
00:05:27
Speaker
This is different.
00:05:28
Speaker
There's a whole new ramp.
00:05:29
Speaker
There's the subway.
00:05:30
Speaker
There's just so much more on the premium and LE.
00:05:34
Speaker
And I had friends of mine watch the premium video and then watch the pro and go, huh.
00:05:41
Speaker
There wasn't really that kind of difference in the other two, but if you've never owned a premium, this might be the one to step up on because there's a lot of things.
00:05:49
Speaker
First of all, there's a lot of things in the pro too, don't get me wrong.
00:05:53
Speaker
You've got that special lock tower and again, that extra ramp and just the way the ramp feeds, so much fun.
00:06:00
Speaker
I was very excited and I don't know if I've ever been more excited by any trailer that Stern's ever done than this one.
00:06:08
Speaker
This one just...
00:06:09
Speaker
Like, I mean, Travis Miria, a friend from Oklahoma, he was speechless.
00:06:13
Speaker
He did a reaction video and basically just said, wow, wow, wow.
00:06:18
Speaker
He had no words.
00:06:20
Speaker
Yeah.
00:06:22
Speaker
What actually surprises me, though, is even – yes, I totally agree with you.
00:06:26
Speaker
I think the Ellie blows me away.
00:06:28
Speaker
And spoiler alert, I actually – as soon as the trailer came out, I actually texted Zach and I'm like, I want an Ellie.
00:06:38
Speaker
And I was actually playing with and taking tennis lessons and my tennis coach is actually into his name is Lindsey.
00:06:45
Speaker
He's into pinball, too.
00:06:48
Speaker
And he he's the one who bought my Iron Maiden or my Iron Man.
00:06:52
Speaker
And he asked me about it.
00:06:53
Speaker
I said, it's going to be great.
00:06:55
Speaker
And so we both got in on an LE and I'm really glad because there are no LEs available.
00:07:01
Speaker
Yeah, yeah.
00:07:03
Speaker
This is going to sell gangbusters.
00:07:07
Speaker
Just... And I'll tell you what.
00:07:11
Speaker
It's the perfect storm, right?
00:07:13
Speaker
It is literally... It has got a phenomenal, really innovative, fresh layout.
00:07:20
Speaker
Interesting shots.
00:07:21
Speaker
Really interesting geometry.
00:07:23
Speaker
How everything sort of comes together.
00:07:26
Speaker
On the premium LE, you've got...
00:07:29
Speaker
What I think is just this absolute standout feature is that ramp that sort of, you know, defies gravity, I think it's called, on the right-hand side, which the Pro doesn't have.
00:07:43
Speaker
But I'll tell you another thing.
00:07:44
Speaker
I think...
00:07:45
Speaker
This is Zombie Yeti's best art ever.
00:07:50
Speaker
And I say that because I've loved his art style, but I've always found it very, very busy, very detailed, and I'm not sure what I'm focusing on.
00:08:01
Speaker
With this, it's got really good depth.
00:08:04
Speaker
It's a really good use of palettes of bright colors, some contrasting colors, really good shaping around the inserts, really good graduation of color.
00:08:14
Speaker
The art blades on the LA look great.
00:08:16
Speaker
The cabinet art looks fantastic as well.
00:08:18
Speaker
So I think you've got a great layout with great art.
00:08:23
Speaker
The only thing I don't know about yet is the rules.
00:08:28
Speaker
Yeah.
00:08:29
Speaker
Well, you can have some confidence in that as well, though, because it's Keith Elwin.
00:08:32
Speaker
I mean, if we have a blueprint from his last two games, I'm not worried about rules at all.
00:08:37
Speaker
You know, we talk about all these things, but I have a feeling as a competitive player, Martin used to be one, you guys have never dabbled.
00:08:45
Speaker
The point is that...
00:08:47
Speaker
as a competitive player and one of the top players in the world, there was a joke there.
00:08:50
Speaker
Nobody laughed.
00:08:51
Speaker
What a bunch of dicks you guys are.
00:08:56
Speaker
Anyway, the point is, you didn't allow enough space for the laughter.
00:09:01
Speaker
I'll dumb it down.
00:09:02
Speaker
I'll dumb it down.
00:09:04
Speaker
Okay.
00:09:04
Speaker
Try again.
00:09:05
Speaker
Try again.
00:09:06
Speaker
I'll, okay.
00:09:07
Speaker
I'll line up.
00:09:08
Speaker
I'll line up the laugh track.
00:09:11
Speaker
Not this podcast.
00:09:12
Speaker
That's another one.
00:09:13
Speaker
Oh, yes, yes.
00:09:15
Speaker
The point is, we're all focusing on the cool things.
00:09:18
Speaker
The visual subway.
00:09:20
Speaker
How fun is that?
00:09:21
Speaker
It's always been there, but now you get to see it.
00:09:23
Speaker
Very, very cool.
00:09:24
Speaker
That lock tower.
00:09:25
Speaker
Pretty fun.
00:09:26
Speaker
Again, the extra ramp.
00:09:28
Speaker
The thing people,
Gameplay Differences in Avengers Pinball Models
00:09:30
Speaker
I think, are going to be obsessed with this game.
00:09:33
Speaker
I mean, there's so many different things.
00:09:34
Speaker
We talked about the Hulk spinner and all that other stuff.
00:09:36
Speaker
Yeah.
00:09:37
Speaker
That grid, that three by three grid on the left hand side is going to be so incredibly cool from kind of a, I don't know what you would say.
00:09:48
Speaker
Almost think of Ripley's, believe it or not, combined with maybe some Walking Dead rules.
00:09:53
Speaker
That is going to be one of the best features on that game as far as gameplay.
00:09:57
Speaker
And when you're talking about rules.
00:10:00
Speaker
Well, what amazes me is, one, this looks like this should be a Super LE $18,000 game.
00:10:08
Speaker
Oh, wait to turn that.
00:10:09
Speaker
Thanks for driving the price up.
00:10:10
Speaker
Well done.
00:10:11
Speaker
No, no, no.
00:10:12
Speaker
Let's move, move.
00:10:13
Speaker
Well done.
00:10:14
Speaker
Look at all the wire forms.
00:10:16
Speaker
You have all the drop targets.
00:10:17
Speaker
You have everything in this game.
00:10:19
Speaker
And that's what blows me away.
00:10:21
Speaker
And one thing that people completely forget about is if you look at the LE, usually that custom side armor is...
00:10:30
Speaker
you know, it's an, it's an add on, right?
00:10:32
Speaker
It's actually in the LE too.
00:10:34
Speaker
So looking at all the stuff that they include in the LE, they included that, uh, custom, uh, powder coating on the armor and the, the deluxe armor too.
00:10:42
Speaker
Then you have the invisible glass, you have the shaker motor, you have the, uh,
00:10:47
Speaker
the mirrored trans light.
00:10:48
Speaker
You have everything in this.
00:10:51
Speaker
Yeah.
00:10:51
Speaker
And upgraded audio too.
00:10:52
Speaker
And I'm just looking at it thinking this is, this is an automatic instant amazing game that I, I am amazed that they were actually able to put it out for this.
00:11:03
Speaker
And I, maybe that's just me.
00:11:05
Speaker
I looked at this and I thought this could be the first one for Stern game that actually breaks a $10,000 and it didn't.
00:11:13
Speaker
Has the pricing come out?
00:11:14
Speaker
Yes, it has.
00:11:16
Speaker
Stern has increased their price by only $100.
00:11:18
Speaker
I know people keep hearing that it's only $100.
00:11:20
Speaker
It's only $100.
00:11:21
Speaker
But yes, it did go up by $100.
00:11:23
Speaker
So the Pro, that puts it at $59.99 and then $77 for the premium.
00:11:25
Speaker
I thought I saw $61.99 for the Pro, $77.99 for the premium, and then LE was $9 something.
00:11:39
Speaker
Yeah, I'm on their site now.
00:11:40
Speaker
It's $61.99 for the Pro.
00:11:42
Speaker
It is $77.99.
00:11:46
Speaker
Yes, and then $91.99 for the LE.
00:11:49
Speaker
Oh, I must be reporting distributors price of, you know, you know how they always, it always seems like there's an MSRP and then it seems like the distributors are like $200 less.
00:11:58
Speaker
It's kind of like the street level, right?
00:12:00
Speaker
And that's how Patterson, you know, in This Week in Pinball, that's how he talks about it is when he says, this is what the street price is.
00:12:06
Speaker
This is basically what you expect to pay, but yeah.
00:12:09
Speaker
But still, it's an amazing package.
00:12:12
Speaker
Yeah, obviously we're in Australia, so we've got different pricing and we've got an exchange rate, which is still pretty low.
00:12:22
Speaker
We're getting 73 US cents to our dollar.
00:12:29
Speaker
So as pricing has only gradually gone up for you and has gone up
00:12:36
Speaker
probably significantly more for us.
00:12:38
Speaker
And I haven't seen the pricing just yet.
00:12:42
Speaker
Yeah.
00:12:42
Speaker
So I was kind of calculating today because I'm going to be ordering the premium.
00:12:45
Speaker
I'm really fascinated by that.
00:12:46
Speaker
Not that I'm not about the LE.
00:12:48
Speaker
Listen, I don't want to knock anything on this game.
00:12:53
Speaker
I just don't like the color yellow.
00:12:55
Speaker
So that's why LE is out for me.
00:12:57
Speaker
I'm not a fan of other people.
00:12:58
Speaker
It pops.
00:12:58
Speaker
It's great.
00:12:59
Speaker
It looks good.
00:12:59
Speaker
It does nothing for me.
00:13:01
Speaker
But...
00:13:02
Speaker
You know, you talked about the side armor and the shaker motor, the Invisiglass, the better sound system.
00:13:07
Speaker
I'm like, I like all those things.
00:13:09
Speaker
But I was in on the premium anyway.
00:13:11
Speaker
That cost in Canada is about $11.5 after tax.
00:13:14
Speaker
Yeah.
00:13:16
Speaker
Well, let's just address that really quick.
00:13:18
Speaker
The only two complaints I've heard of this whole situation, even my wife said.
00:13:22
Speaker
I posted this morning and I got home.
00:13:24
Speaker
I thought I was going to surprise her with this video.
00:13:28
Speaker
And she's like, yeah, I already saw it.
00:13:29
Speaker
And the first thing she says, she says, I hate the yellow.
00:13:32
Speaker
It just depends on the room you're putting it in, right?
00:13:34
Speaker
Like it might work for some rooms.
00:13:35
Speaker
It might not for others.
00:13:37
Speaker
And if it really stands out, it could be a little bit of an eyesore.
00:13:39
Speaker
But that's... If you're working on your tan, absolutely it will help you.
00:13:43
Speaker
You know what?
00:13:44
Speaker
This is going right next to my yellow book road.
00:13:47
Speaker
There you go.
00:13:48
Speaker
Or if you've got a McDonald's move, Tief, you know, maybe that'll fit well with the reds and the yellows.
00:13:52
Speaker
What was the other complaint?
00:13:54
Speaker
The second complaint, the only other complaint I've heard is people are frustrated that it's Avengers.
00:13:58
Speaker
They feel like it's already been done before.
00:14:01
Speaker
Yeah, that's what I'm hearing is that it's tired.
00:14:04
Speaker
Not that it's like a bad theme.
00:14:05
Speaker
It's just a tired theme.
00:14:08
Speaker
They were wanting Led Zeppelin to come out because that's a relevant band now, right?
00:14:14
Speaker
Hey, hey, hey, hey.
00:14:15
Speaker
Shots fired, Jeff.
00:14:17
Speaker
Yeah, hold on a second here.
00:14:18
Speaker
Did you hear what I did to Zach Manny when he made fun of Hart?
00:14:21
Speaker
Don't you dare badmouth like Jeff.
00:14:23
Speaker
Oh, oh, oh.
00:14:24
Speaker
You know, it's true.
00:14:25
Speaker
I was waiting for Rush to come out, so.
00:14:27
Speaker
I'm all in on Rush if that ever happens, but don't knock Zep.
00:14:30
Speaker
The point is, with Avengers, and especially the comic book,
00:14:34
Speaker
there are a lot of options you can do, a lot of different characters.
00:14:37
Speaker
You know, one thing I always liked about X-Men was all the different characters you could see.
00:14:40
Speaker
And again, because it was comic art and not movie rights, you could do a lot more.
00:14:45
Speaker
And I think that's the great thing about this game.
00:14:47
Speaker
First of all, it's going to be the top seller of the year by far.
00:14:51
Speaker
Here's the game of the year.
00:14:52
Speaker
It's already done.
00:14:53
Speaker
Hand it over.
00:14:54
Speaker
Congratulations.
00:14:56
Speaker
That's the kind of feedback we're getting right now.
00:14:58
Speaker
But what I really think about this is, again, because it's the comic art,
00:15:02
Speaker
I think this is a game you're going to be seeing manufactured for a long time.
00:15:07
Speaker
This is probably an easier re-up to vault this game.
00:15:11
Speaker
Oh, absolutely.
00:15:12
Speaker
Well, and I feel like it's timeless.
00:15:14
Speaker
I mean, you look at the Avengers from 2013.
00:15:17
Speaker
The art and stuff from that, you feel like it's stuck in that era, which, I mean, it's only a decade ago because the original movie came out in, what, 2010, 2011?
00:15:28
Speaker
But with this, the comic book art will always...
00:15:32
Speaker
transition era to era with seamlessly because you don't have to look at that and go oh well that movie's now you don't automatically have that subconscious of you know this movie's already 20 years old or 30 years old
00:15:44
Speaker
Yeah, you're really handcuffed when you have the movie rights art, I mean, or television art.
00:15:49
Speaker
Listen, you know, what Greg Ferriss just talked about, Game of Thrones, how they were limited.
00:15:52
Speaker
They had to do that kind of clip art stuff.
00:15:54
Speaker
The same with the original Star Wars one.
00:15:56
Speaker
Here's some Photoshop, here's some this and that.
00:15:59
Speaker
You know, when they came out with a comic pin, I was like, okay, I'm kind of cool on that.
00:16:02
Speaker
Same with this one too.
00:16:04
Speaker
So speaking of comic, can someone explain to me what Infinity Quest is?
00:16:09
Speaker
Okay.
00:16:10
Speaker
Yeah.
Infinity Quest Theme Background
00:16:11
Speaker
Okay.
00:16:11
Speaker
Josh tried this yesterday and woefully missed.
00:16:15
Speaker
So he's done some research.
00:16:16
Speaker
Yeah.
00:16:17
Speaker
I was going to say, just give me two seconds.
00:16:18
Speaker
I want to apologize for the episode we just released.
00:16:20
Speaker
Yeah.
00:16:21
Speaker
No kidding.
00:16:21
Speaker
I heard that.
00:16:25
Speaker
So the one I was talking about is not actually called Infinity War.
00:16:28
Speaker
The one I was talking about is actually called Annihilation.
00:16:32
Speaker
Infinity Quest is the lead up to... It's gathering the Infinity Stones for Thanos so he can then use the gauntlet to do the snap.
00:16:43
Speaker
But it is a comic book series of its own?
00:16:47
Speaker
Is that what it is?
00:16:51
Speaker
So there's three eras.
00:16:52
Speaker
I'm going to pull out my super nerd card right now.
00:16:54
Speaker
There's three eras of comic books.
00:16:56
Speaker
There is the Golden Era, which is kind of that...
00:17:00
Speaker
That Superman, the original Batman, that type of thing.
00:17:04
Speaker
And then in the 70s, they transitioned to more of what's called the Silver Age.
00:17:08
Speaker
And that's when you get those really fantastical ones.
00:17:13
Speaker
Just think of like Flash Gordon or stuff like that where it's your...
00:17:17
Speaker
time traveling, you're going to other planets, you're doing all these crazy things.
00:17:22
Speaker
And then somewhere in the late 80s, early 90s, they transitioned to what's the modern era.
00:17:28
Speaker
And that's really when you get into the Deadpool, that type of stuff.
00:17:33
Speaker
And so this is solely locked in the 70s era.
00:17:36
Speaker
And the
00:17:38
Speaker
that's one reason why the art actually ties in really well.
00:17:41
Speaker
But yes, they had this big meta crossover.
00:17:44
Speaker
So it was a way for them to license and sell multiple different comic books simultaneously.
00:17:51
Speaker
And so they would have the same storyline.
00:17:54
Speaker
Basically, just think of how the Marvel Cinematic Universe is.
00:17:57
Speaker
They would sell the Captain America one, but really to get the next episode of that storyline, you would have to buy the Iron Man and then you would get the Black Widow and then you'd get the Avengers.
00:18:07
Speaker
And so
00:18:08
Speaker
It was really a way to sell a whole bunch of different comic books from the different things.
00:18:14
Speaker
And hopefully after the storyline was over, you would continue on with it.
00:18:17
Speaker
And so that's the reason why you have all of the characters coming together for one common quest.
00:18:25
Speaker
Okay.
00:18:26
Speaker
So for me personally, I would agree with those two negatives.
00:18:33
Speaker
I really don't like the yellow trim.
00:18:38
Speaker
And I'm not really all that excited about the theme, but that's two out of 100 features of this game that the remainder are all blowing my mind.
00:18:56
Speaker
You know, when we talk about, you know, the theme doesn't do it for me.
00:18:58
Speaker
How many people a couple of years ago said, I'm not into Iron Maiden and it didn't matter.
00:19:04
Speaker
You know, maybe you became an Iron Maiden fan or whatever.
00:19:06
Speaker
You were just so enamored with how great the gameplay was.
00:19:10
Speaker
And we haven't even played the game.
00:19:12
Speaker
We haven't even seen it playing.
00:19:13
Speaker
We've been watching a two minute video of it and we're, we're wow.
00:19:17
Speaker
We're like, holy cow, look at all the different things on that game.
00:19:19
Speaker
Look at how many shots.
Innovative Features in Avengers Pinball
00:19:21
Speaker
My favorite thing about, I don't know if it's my favorite thing.
00:19:24
Speaker
It's one of my favorite things about Keith is,
00:19:25
Speaker
is how he makes upper flippers do so many different things.
00:19:31
Speaker
And a lot of games from not even too many years ago, that upper flipper did one thing.
00:19:37
Speaker
It was a side ramp.
00:19:38
Speaker
That's it.
00:19:38
Speaker
There wasn't a lot there.
00:19:39
Speaker
Think of Spider-Man.
00:19:41
Speaker
Really, just one shot.
00:19:42
Speaker
Sure, you can maybe hit the visor if you want.
00:19:45
Speaker
Maybe you can hit it late and go for Green Goblin, which is not a wise shot.
00:19:50
Speaker
You don't want to hit that lock shot with...
00:19:52
Speaker
the side flipper.
00:19:53
Speaker
That's a missed shot if you're hitting it from that upper flipper.
00:19:56
Speaker
But really, there was just one shot there.
00:19:58
Speaker
Look at how many shots we've seen just in that video of that upper left flipper.
00:20:03
Speaker
I love it.
00:20:03
Speaker
You saw it in Iron Man, you see it in Jurassic Park, and now here with Avengers Infinity Quest.
00:20:08
Speaker
Well, and I like that as you watch the video, there's different feeds that we're not used to.
00:20:14
Speaker
They talk about an industry first of the right orbit.
00:20:18
Speaker
I want to say there's a ramp right next to the gauntlet shot, which is that upper flipper shot.
00:20:25
Speaker
And I can't remember what the last shot is, but all three of them feed into the left wire form and come right back to your right flipper.
00:20:32
Speaker
And so that's something different I don't think we've seen before as well.
00:20:36
Speaker
By the way, I don't know how quickly this podcast comes out, but if you can invest in stock in wire form, it's going to go through the roof.
00:20:44
Speaker
Yeah.
00:20:45
Speaker
Yes.
00:20:45
Speaker
Holy cow.
00:20:46
Speaker
Yeah.
00:20:46
Speaker
I'm just counting up the wire form right now.
00:20:49
Speaker
One, two, three, four, five.
00:20:52
Speaker
Well, I guess... It's airborne-like.
00:20:55
Speaker
Yeah.
00:20:56
Speaker
Actually, what it reminds me of is it reminds me of there was a... It was some 70s thing because it was like in the 80s and there was a house that was kind of abandoned.
00:21:04
Speaker
And so, you know, as kids do, we would just like go and walk around in an abandoned house.
00:21:09
Speaker
And there was this old game there and it had all these...
00:21:13
Speaker
this wire form, and I thought it was the most amazing thing in the world.
00:21:16
Speaker
This kills that compared to how many different shots.
00:21:20
Speaker
And in retrospect, it probably just had like two shots that were wire form.
00:21:24
Speaker
But this is, you know, this looks like an amusement park.
00:21:28
Speaker
If you look at Avengers Amusement Park, like a roller coaster tycoon thing, where it just has these things going all over the place.
00:21:36
Speaker
It's amazing.
00:21:36
Speaker
This seems like the first game where
00:21:39
Speaker
It it has the you know, we've seen these horseshoe ramps that come back at you, but this is the first one that seems to take it and elevate me almost make a vertical game without being so overtly vertical.
00:21:52
Speaker
Does that make sense?
00:21:55
Speaker
Yes, like like like the way the way the ramps are going, it's the ball is moving in ways that it never has.
00:22:00
Speaker
Yeah, so sort of the pinball circus-ish without the four layers.
00:22:06
Speaker
Right.
00:22:07
Speaker
I get what you mean.
00:22:08
Speaker
Rather than it just being sort of horizontal gameplay, you're actually getting a lot of vertical play, including the Avengers magnet lock, you know, vertical.
00:22:20
Speaker
Yeah, the very target.
00:22:22
Speaker
Yeah, that's a very target.
00:22:23
Speaker
Yeah.
00:22:24
Speaker
Well, okay.
00:22:25
Speaker
And what about this, I don't know, this chubby ramp that you have on the upper right?
00:22:31
Speaker
Well, that's the thing that's amazing about it is that you can hit it with all three flippers.
00:22:34
Speaker
Correct.
00:22:34
Speaker
Yeah.
00:22:35
Speaker
So it's creating an arc for each of those three angles that you go with it.
00:22:41
Speaker
So the question that keeps weighing in on my mind, as I've watched the videos, I don't know how many times now, if you take the premium and the pro, you sit right next to each other.
00:22:50
Speaker
I know we kind of talked at the very beginning that you feel like the premium is way more packed than the pro.
00:22:56
Speaker
But if you strip down gameplay wise, let's take the toys off the table and just do gameplay.
00:23:01
Speaker
The only real difference between the pro and the premium is
00:23:05
Speaker
is the Captain Marvel inverted ramp.
00:23:09
Speaker
And then Hank Pym, so it's that far right shot that's on the Pro, it's a stand-up target.
00:23:17
Speaker
And on the Premium, it's actually a scoop or an upkicker.
00:23:22
Speaker
Those are really the only two differences.
00:23:24
Speaker
What about the Doctor Strange subway?
00:23:26
Speaker
Yeah, Doctor Strange disc that rises up.
00:23:28
Speaker
That's major.
00:23:30
Speaker
I did think of that, but really the only difference, yeah, you're shooting a ball into a hole, but the subway still comes out the same place as Pim's and Captain Marvel's shot.
00:23:41
Speaker
But it's a different shot.
00:23:42
Speaker
Yeah, it doesn't raise with the Pro.
00:23:45
Speaker
It's just a spinning disc.
00:23:47
Speaker
Okay, I'll give you that.
00:23:48
Speaker
So do you think that's enough to make it feel like the whole game is different?
00:23:52
Speaker
Or do you think that it's going to be close enough to a pro that if you're fine with no toys, well, not no toys, but if you're fine with kind of the stripped down of the toys, you're going to get just as good product with the pro as you do the premium gameplay wise?
00:24:05
Speaker
No.
00:24:06
Speaker
Of course, it's not as good as the premium, but let's just say there wasn't a premium and you were just looking at the pro.
00:24:11
Speaker
The premium doesn't exist.
00:24:13
Speaker
Yeah.
00:24:13
Speaker
You would say this is amazing.
00:24:15
Speaker
Like compare this to anything they released in the last 15 years and maybe take out Jurassic Park, maybe take out Iron Maiden.
00:24:25
Speaker
But even the pro version of this, I think, would blow people away.
00:24:30
Speaker
Agree.
00:24:31
Speaker
Agree.
00:24:31
Speaker
I still think there is enough on the premium that separates it from the pro more than most Stern releases.
Debate on Pro vs Premium Features
00:24:42
Speaker
I totally agree, Martin.
00:24:43
Speaker
That's the thing.
00:24:44
Speaker
I've never been...
00:24:46
Speaker
really motivated to buy a premium for game differences.
00:24:50
Speaker
You know, uh, I'll think of black night sort of rage when that first came out, I'm like, well, black nights gotta have an upper play field.
00:24:57
Speaker
And then I saw it and I was like, okay, I, I, I think of black night and I think of upper play fields.
00:25:02
Speaker
I don't really care that much about it.
00:25:04
Speaker
It's, it's, it's just not a lot to do up there.
00:25:07
Speaker
And, you know, old code, not now they've since fixed it.
00:25:10
Speaker
You could stay up there, stay up there.
00:25:11
Speaker
I was like, eh, it doesn't do it for me.
00:25:13
Speaker
Um,
00:25:14
Speaker
Anything with lower player fields, upper play fields, you got to be lights out to really change.
00:25:19
Speaker
Game of Thrones, give me the pro.
00:25:21
Speaker
I'd much rather play the pro just for the flow of that game, especially when we're talking Steve Ritchie games.
00:25:26
Speaker
You want that fast flow.
00:25:28
Speaker
Anything that slows it down, not really that big on it.
00:25:31
Speaker
Yeah, I think what you're saying is if you're going to add something play field wise that changes the game, make sure it's good.
00:25:39
Speaker
And what's been added here looks really cool.
00:25:44
Speaker
And I think that's where I've been torn is, do I go with the pro or do I go with the premium?
00:25:48
Speaker
The premium, I love that under the playfield subway, being able to see those balls and stuff like that.
00:25:53
Speaker
But at the end of the day, is it going to feel much more different?
00:25:58
Speaker
Because let's take Jurassic Park.
00:25:59
Speaker
That's a similar situation.
00:26:00
Speaker
You've got a T-Rex that diverts the ball and throws it away.
00:26:04
Speaker
And then you've got the Raptor pit.
00:26:06
Speaker
But other than that, there isn't too much difference.
00:26:10
Speaker
Do you feel like it'll be a similar situation in that regard?
00:26:14
Speaker
No, not at all.
00:26:15
Speaker
This is way more than that.
00:26:16
Speaker
This is way different.
00:26:18
Speaker
The Jurassic Park, those were all cosmetic things.
00:26:21
Speaker
The Raptor pit was a little bit different, but still the same gameplay.
00:26:24
Speaker
This is different gameplay.
00:26:26
Speaker
Yeah, I think that right...
00:26:31
Speaker
vertical ramp, whatever you want to call it, gravity defying ramp, whatever.
00:26:35
Speaker
I don't think you will ever get sick of seeing that happen.
00:26:40
Speaker
Yeah, Josh, you're going to want the premium on this one.
00:26:44
Speaker
Actually, and I agree with you, Jeff, about the Black Knight.
00:26:48
Speaker
I actually think the Pro is the better game.
00:26:51
Speaker
I have more fun with the Pro than I do with the premium just because it is a much more lightning fast game and I have a better time.
00:27:01
Speaker
Same thing, I guess I would say the same thing about Game of Thrones.
00:27:05
Speaker
I think the upper play field actually takes away from my experience as opposed to adding it.
00:27:10
Speaker
Yeah.
00:27:11
Speaker
It's better now with the newer code.
00:27:13
Speaker
That upper section on Game of Thrones means a lot more.
00:27:18
Speaker
But again, I would also go to the Pro.
00:27:22
Speaker
Well, and it's funny because I'm not trying to convince you guys to go to the Pro.
00:27:25
Speaker
I really do think the premium is the better.
00:27:28
Speaker
That gauntlet in the top right corner is just perfect with the lit up gems and everything.
00:27:34
Speaker
And I know that has nothing to do with the gameplay, but the premium feels just like the right machine for your home.
00:27:40
Speaker
But again, that's what the price difference is too.
00:27:42
Speaker
So, I mean, you're paying an extra $1,600 American for the, for those extra features.
00:27:49
Speaker
I think that's good value.
00:27:50
Speaker
Whereas to me, and this is just me on Jurassic Park, a moving dinosaur in a different raptor pit wasn't $1,600 difference for me.
00:27:57
Speaker
Yeah.
00:27:59
Speaker
Well, and for me it was because I wanted the wow factor of that is an awesome experience.
00:28:06
Speaker
And everyone comes over, like the kids all come over and they're like, hey, that thing eats the ball.
00:28:11
Speaker
Yeah, yeah.
00:28:13
Speaker
I agree.
00:28:14
Speaker
I know it's only cosmetic and it throws the ball around, but the T-Rex, it actually has a wow factor and it makes you feel.
00:28:23
Speaker
I'm always about how these machines, which are literally just –
00:28:28
Speaker
wires and wood and mechanics.
00:28:32
Speaker
It's how they make you feel.
00:28:33
Speaker
And the Raptor makes you, the Raptor, the T-Rex makes you feel good because it is just such a wow factor.
00:28:40
Speaker
I think just a ramp, the ramp on this, on the Premium LE has that same sort of wow factor.
00:28:47
Speaker
And I just remember when I first saw, I just went, how, how not, well, not necessarily how is that even possible, but why has that not been done before?
00:28:56
Speaker
That is so freaking cool.
00:28:58
Speaker
Yeah, it seems like when, you know, in the Olympics, when they did the moguls and everyone was doing the same tricks.
00:29:05
Speaker
And then you had Johnny Mosley in 2002 when he did the back then you couldn't go inverted, but he actually did a double flip and went on his side and it was completely different than anybody else.
00:29:20
Speaker
And it was the same type of thing.
00:29:21
Speaker
Why has no one tried to push the sport?
00:29:23
Speaker
Now they can do barrel flips and whatever they want.
00:29:27
Speaker
I say we end all pinball talk now and just talk about mogul skiing for the rest of the podcast.
00:29:31
Speaker
You know what?
00:29:32
Speaker
Exactly.
00:29:33
Speaker
You can, you know what?
00:29:34
Speaker
Actually, let's talk about hockey, eh?
Generational Appeal of Avengers Pinball
00:29:37
Speaker
No, because Canadian teams suck this year, so we don't need to do that.
00:29:42
Speaker
Well, we can talk about the Phoenix Coyotes because that's a huge hotbed for hockey right down there.
00:29:48
Speaker
All right, so let's talk about some of the other features.
00:29:51
Speaker
Martin kind of touched on this a little bit earlier, but what is everyone's general thoughts of the zombie Yeti artwork?
00:29:59
Speaker
I kind of agree with what Martin was saying earlier.
00:30:01
Speaker
To me, out of everything he's done, and I've been impressed with, I really like his art style.
00:30:07
Speaker
I think this is his best.
00:30:09
Speaker
And I thought Turtles was pretty darn good.
00:30:11
Speaker
And that was just a few months ago.
00:30:12
Speaker
But this one really, you know, I really looked at a lot of the different characters, showed it to my son, who's a massive Marvel fan.
00:30:20
Speaker
And he was just like, oh, there's that, there's that, there's that.
00:30:22
Speaker
And just he was pretty wild.
00:30:25
Speaker
And it didn't look too busy.
00:30:27
Speaker
And sometimes I've always felt that when you throw too many things in there, it does look too busy.
00:30:32
Speaker
Martin, I think you agree as well.
00:30:35
Speaker
This looked just perfect.
00:30:36
Speaker
It was nice.
00:30:39
Speaker
I will agree with you guys.
00:30:40
Speaker
I feel like the pages of a Marvel comic leapt out and landed right onto the play field.
00:30:48
Speaker
I personally mean, I still think the Turtles is better.
00:30:51
Speaker
I'm biased, though, because Turtles is my favorite thing.
00:30:54
Speaker
And honestly, after...
00:30:57
Speaker
After Turtles came out, I went back with my son.
00:30:59
Speaker
We rewatched the series.
00:31:01
Speaker
And it almost makes the old 87s cartoons look worse.
00:31:06
Speaker
Because Zombie A did so well.
00:31:09
Speaker
And so I really, really do like the artwork.
00:31:12
Speaker
It's neck and neck with me.
00:31:14
Speaker
I really think that this is some of his... This year, I mean, hands down, easily, this year is his best year of artwork that he's produced for Pinball.
00:31:21
Speaker
Yeah.
00:31:22
Speaker
Ironically, he actually might not get art of the year because you're voting on two, you're, you're voting on two games.
00:31:28
Speaker
So he's actually going to have his vote divided between turtles and Avengers.
00:31:33
Speaker
Well, he'll win on one of them then.
00:31:35
Speaker
Yeah.
00:31:35
Speaker
So far, but that is a good point.
00:31:38
Speaker
You know, I think I, I remember,
00:31:40
Speaker
There was a, when Deadpool won something over Iron Maiden, that was a shocker.
00:31:45
Speaker
I just can't remember which Twip award it was.
00:31:46
Speaker
And then the more I thought about it, I'm like, yeah, I guess that was kind of a coin flip.
00:31:50
Speaker
This is the same for sure.
00:31:51
Speaker
Yeah.
00:31:53
Speaker
I also think it's funny because these are both kind of geared towards younger people in a sense, right?
00:31:59
Speaker
The last two themes, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and Avengers.
00:32:03
Speaker
Yeah.
00:32:04
Speaker
For older guys like Martin, and I'm getting there, this is not exactly our wheelhouse, but...
00:32:12
Speaker
I'm impressed.
00:32:13
Speaker
You know, people are fathers with kids and the kids are excited by it.
00:32:18
Speaker
It's kind of neat.
00:32:19
Speaker
Like, so I wonder, as you look at a lot of the people that buy these games, especially the premiums and the LEs that have maybe a little more income as you get older and accumulate that kind of stuff as, you know, over 40, over 50, which theme is going to be more appealing to them?
00:32:36
Speaker
Comics have been around a long time.
00:32:39
Speaker
You know, for me, I just seconds ago turned 50 and I, Mutant Turtles was nothing for me.
00:32:47
Speaker
My younger brother, who's six years younger than me, he liked it, but I never played with the toys, never saw that stuff.
00:32:53
Speaker
I can't tell you, I know who the four guys are.
00:32:55
Speaker
I don't know which is which.
00:32:56
Speaker
I don't know what color Leonardo is or Raphael or Donatello or Michelangelo.
00:33:00
Speaker
I know their names.
00:33:01
Speaker
No idea.
00:33:01
Speaker
No idea the supporting cast just wasn't it for me.
00:33:04
Speaker
You know who April O'Neil is.
00:33:08
Speaker
From Turtles or?
00:33:09
Speaker
Never mind.
00:33:12
Speaker
Yes, I do.
00:33:15
Speaker
But it was not a thing, you know, but as a kid, I knew who Captain America was.
00:33:20
Speaker
I knew who Iron Man was.
00:33:21
Speaker
I probably didn't know who Thanos was, but I mean, I certainly have from the movie.
00:33:26
Speaker
So more appeal, I think, in this one.
00:33:31
Speaker
I think this one is perfect because it, it straddles that it's, it's like turtles where turtles is relevant now, but the, the turtles they released is the throwback is the same thing with ghostbusters.
00:33:44
Speaker
The ghostbusters movie came out maybe for a modern generation, but,
00:33:47
Speaker
versus us that remembers this.
00:33:49
Speaker
This is the Avengers.
00:33:51
Speaker
And so people who are young know who the Avengers are.
00:33:54
Speaker
But this one is really stuck in the 70s.
00:33:57
Speaker
And I'm not saying that's a bad thing.
00:33:59
Speaker
I actually say that's a good thing because people look at that and say, man, I'm once again that 12-year-old kid who wants the coolest toy on the planet.
00:34:08
Speaker
You're sure about that 70s thing, right?
00:34:10
Speaker
Well, the comic arc is from 1993.
00:34:12
Speaker
So I don't know why Scott keeps saying 70s.
00:34:15
Speaker
Infinity War?
00:34:18
Speaker
Infinity Quest, yes.
00:34:19
Speaker
Infinity War and Infinity Gauntlet are both from 1993.
00:34:22
Speaker
Okay.
00:34:23
Speaker
Well, maybe I'm thinking of a secret.
00:34:25
Speaker
Let's go back to moguls, all right?
00:34:29
Speaker
So back in the day... But the point being is, I mean, okay, Superman and Batman, one of the very first, most recognizable superheroes that were ever released are from 1933?
00:34:38
Speaker
1938.
00:34:38
Speaker
Yeah.
00:34:42
Speaker
So you've you're that's almost 100 years worth of recognition.
00:34:48
Speaker
I mean, grandpa should be able to see, you know, the whole can go.
00:34:53
Speaker
Well, I saw that because there used to be the TV show when I was younger.
00:34:58
Speaker
And I feel like this is cross generational in the fact that, you know, Avengers might feel like it's the new hip thing, but it's been around for years.
00:35:06
Speaker
It's not that we're targeting this because the four movies came out in the last decade.
00:35:13
Speaker
Okay, think of this, Josh.
00:35:15
Speaker
Think about you're going to an arcade.
00:35:17
Speaker
It's now post-COVID-19.
00:35:20
Speaker
Arcades are happening.
00:35:21
Speaker
You've got games sitting there in a lineup.
00:35:25
Speaker
And you see Turtles.
00:35:27
Speaker
You see Avengers.
00:35:31
Speaker
They're both going to catch your eye, I would think.
00:35:33
Speaker
Especially if it's banana yellow.
00:35:36
Speaker
Well, I wonder if that's part of the reason for that.
00:35:39
Speaker
Maybe.
00:35:40
Speaker
It certainly makes it pop.
00:35:42
Speaker
Yes, it does.
00:35:43
Speaker
Yeah, but you're not going to see an LE in an arcade typically.
00:35:45
Speaker
No, no.
00:35:47
Speaker
Sorry, but I cut you off.
00:35:47
Speaker
Keep going.
00:35:48
Speaker
No, I just, again, these are both kind of wow titles.
00:35:53
Speaker
Again, the brilliant marketing and licensing titles.
00:35:57
Speaker
These are games that are going to have mass appeal.
00:35:59
Speaker
I mean, yeah, I don't know.
00:36:01
Speaker
I have personally never bought an Avengers or Marvel comic.
00:36:06
Speaker
I know who all the characters are, whether you say from the old TV shows, but the movies, even though this is the comic version, the movies made millions and millions.
00:36:14
Speaker
Everybody saw all those movies.
00:36:16
Speaker
Yeah.
00:36:18
Speaker
Well, and I think they benefit from the movies as well.
00:36:20
Speaker
I don't know what the agreement with Marvel was.
00:36:24
Speaker
Sorry, this is nitpicking, but Infinity Quest and Infinity War were all based off of two main characters that aren't even on this pinball machine.
00:36:37
Speaker
So it's kind of weird to me that we've done the comic version, but it's all the movie characters, if that makes sense.
00:36:48
Speaker
Adam Warlock, which he was... Oh, what's the best way to explain him?
00:36:54
Speaker
What's that?
00:36:55
Speaker
Jesus Christ Superstar?
00:36:56
Speaker
Do you remember that?
00:36:58
Speaker
Andrew Lloyd Webber from the 70s.
00:37:00
Speaker
That's that's what Adam Warlock was based off of.
00:37:03
Speaker
That's that's his character.
00:37:05
Speaker
And then the Silver Surfer, which is the Fantastic Four slash whatnot.
00:37:10
Speaker
And he's not on there as well.
00:37:12
Speaker
Those two two main characters are like the whole reason.
00:37:16
Speaker
This whole comic arc happens.
00:37:20
Speaker
Hmm.
00:37:20
Speaker
Huh?
00:37:20
Speaker
Okay.
00:37:21
Speaker
Okay.
00:37:22
Speaker
See, but it's not going to be a complaint, but I find it, I find it interesting.
00:37:25
Speaker
Sorry.
00:37:25
Speaker
I just find it interesting that we throw it back to the comics and mates because they knew they were getting zombie Yeti artwork, but we're, we're using the movie characters in place.
Licensing and Design Synergy
00:37:37
Speaker
Yeah, it's probably just an easier way of doing it to say that we're using the Marvel assets.
00:37:41
Speaker
Could you imagine what licensing nightmare this would have been to get the likeness rights from about 90 different people who have been in the Marvel movies?
00:37:52
Speaker
Well, every time you saw Iron Man in any games, whether it's the Avengers original game from 13 or from Gomez or even the actual Iron Man game that's been vaulted several times, you don't see Robert Downey Jr. It's the costume.
00:38:03
Speaker
So do you need that?
00:38:05
Speaker
No.
00:38:05
Speaker
You know, it doesn't have to be Chris Evans for Captain America.
00:38:09
Speaker
You know it's Captain America.
00:38:10
Speaker
Hulk has been, you know, it's the big character.
00:38:13
Speaker
It's not Mark Ruffalo.
00:38:14
Speaker
So it doesn't matter.
00:38:15
Speaker
I mean, these characters are iconic.
00:38:17
Speaker
Yes.
00:38:19
Speaker
Love seeing Black Panther in there too.
00:38:20
Speaker
That was, that was great.
00:38:21
Speaker
Yeah.
00:38:23
Speaker
I actually just watched Black Panther again today.
00:38:26
Speaker
Yeah.
00:38:26
Speaker
Especially as one of the main characters.
00:38:28
Speaker
If you notice, there's six right there in the middle of the play field, Hulk, Iron Man, Black Widow, Thor, Black Panther, and I can't remember the other one.
00:38:38
Speaker
But there is multiple heroes all around that.
00:38:41
Speaker
I assume that maybe it's like Batman 66 where there's a supporting cast of villains, the main villains.
00:38:48
Speaker
Yeah, may team ups or something like that.
00:38:50
Speaker
But Black Panther is one of the main six.
00:38:52
Speaker
And I thought that was very awesome as well.
00:38:54
Speaker
Oh, Captain America.
00:38:55
Speaker
Sorry, that's the sixth one.
00:38:58
Speaker
Think of what's going to happen.
00:38:59
Speaker
And we're obviously speculating right now, but look what he's done with the code.
00:39:05
Speaker
with Jurassic Park and how you can now basically play the wizard mode and the speed runs, Neblar and all that kind of stuff.
00:39:12
Speaker
Imagine what he's going to be able to do with this, with everything on that play field.
00:39:17
Speaker
Some of the things that'll be coming down the pipe.
00:39:19
Speaker
It's pretty exciting.
00:39:22
Speaker
Yeah, that's crazy.
00:39:24
Speaker
So has that upper flipper to the ramp that feeds right back to the flipper, has that been done before on any other pinball machine?
00:39:31
Speaker
I don't know.
00:39:31
Speaker
You mean it keeps feeding back to the upper flipper?
00:39:35
Speaker
Yes.
00:39:37
Speaker
I guess you could say that the warp loop on Star Trek?
00:39:42
Speaker
Yeah.
00:39:44
Speaker
Okay, I guess, yeah.
00:39:45
Speaker
And even it does the same thing in Turtles, where it's kind of that warp ramp feel, where it just gets going so fast, if you get two shots, you're lucky.
00:39:52
Speaker
Iron Maiden, Shadow.
00:39:53
Speaker
Yeah, Roller Games does it.
00:39:55
Speaker
Okay.
00:39:56
Speaker
I didn't know with that feeding right in front of you versus, like, you know, in Star Trek, it feeds back behind and back to the shot versus this one.
00:40:04
Speaker
It's kind of like showing off the ball in front of you instead of kind of.
00:40:08
Speaker
Yeah.
00:40:09
Speaker
Anywho.
00:40:09
Speaker
It's one subtle thing, but it's one thing I love about this design too.
00:40:13
Speaker
First of all, I like the uniqueness of the design, but when you look at that upper flipper, it's not flush against a plastic.
00:40:20
Speaker
It's, it's, it's in the middle.
00:40:21
Speaker
Like you can hit the Hulk spinner behind the flipper.
00:40:24
Speaker
You know, when he did Iron Maiden, it was right up against the wall there that you couldn't go behind it.
00:40:28
Speaker
And I love, I love kind of how, you know, you have to be a little more accurate with your shots.
00:40:33
Speaker
Yeah.
00:40:34
Speaker
to make the Hulk spinner, you know, to, I think it's really cool.
00:40:37
Speaker
It just, it makes, I, when I see any kind of new game, the first thing I look at is how many different shots there are in the game.
00:40:45
Speaker
And, you know, you look at the bottom left where, okay, I can hit that, that, that, that same with the right.
00:40:49
Speaker
And now the upper flipper, there are a lot of shots on this game.
00:40:52
Speaker
Yeah, that's true.
00:40:53
Speaker
Yes.
00:40:55
Speaker
It's so packed.
00:40:56
Speaker
I was sitting there thinking this almost feels like a wide body with so many shots in a, in a standard layout.
00:41:02
Speaker
It's perfect.
00:41:03
Speaker
Yeah.
00:41:03
Speaker
I know what you mean.
00:41:04
Speaker
This is the new standard for Stern.
00:41:09
Speaker
Do you think the other designers hate Keith Allen?
00:41:13
Speaker
I don't think so.
00:41:13
Speaker
I just bug him.
00:41:14
Speaker
No, no.
00:41:16
Speaker
I think they probably get sick of hearing that he's the best designer.
00:41:19
Speaker
Well, okay.
00:41:20
Speaker
So for example, though, is that don't you think this pushes them into new levels?
Keith Elwin's Influence on Pinball Design
00:41:26
Speaker
Because if you look at Stern was dying in the 2000s.
00:41:31
Speaker
They were dying and then... But the industry was.
00:41:33
Speaker
It wasn't so much Stern.
00:41:34
Speaker
It was just the whole... Yeah, well, okay.
00:41:35
Speaker
Well, that was the only option, right?
00:41:37
Speaker
And they were the only ones manufacturing for 10 years.
00:41:39
Speaker
And then... One would say they kept it alive, though.
00:41:42
Speaker
Okay.
00:41:43
Speaker
No, what I'm saying is that
00:41:45
Speaker
really toward the end of 2000, I mean, they were producing great games like Wheel of Fortune and and who doesn't want a Wheel of Fortune in their collection?
00:41:55
Speaker
And in Big Buck Hunter, I mean, they really were on fumes.
00:41:58
Speaker
And then Jersey Jack came out and said, well, this is what you should be doing.
00:42:03
Speaker
And then it supercharged Stern into going into a different level that we didn't even know was possible.
00:42:10
Speaker
I think Keith is having the same effect on them right now is that he is reinvigorating experienced designers to relook at their process.
00:42:22
Speaker
That's a very good point because I love Jersey Jack games.
00:42:24
Speaker
I think they're so well built and there's so much involved in each of the games.
00:42:29
Speaker
And yeah, they made Stern step up their game when they came up with Wizard of Oz and subsequently with everything else.
00:42:35
Speaker
So I think you're right.
00:42:37
Speaker
Keith's probably making designers go, okay, you know, we got to have a little more than just that regular, you know, two orbits, one ramp, battalion bottom, all that kind of stuff.
00:42:48
Speaker
I agree with you.
00:42:49
Speaker
And I may be saying something a little bit controversial, but I think that was probably the reason why people were a little bit cool on the likes of, well, let's say Black Knight and even Stranger Things, where they came out and, you know what, they're good machines.
00:43:06
Speaker
They, you know, have shots.
00:43:09
Speaker
But are they really pushing the envelope when it comes to geometry and shot variation?
00:43:17
Speaker
Probably not.
00:43:18
Speaker
They were probably just still more of the same, a bit of an evolution, but not a revolution.
00:43:23
Speaker
This is the revolution.
00:43:25
Speaker
I agree.
00:43:26
Speaker
So Jeff, you're in the music industry.
00:43:30
Speaker
I am?
00:43:31
Speaker
Loosely.
00:43:32
Speaker
Loosely?
00:43:32
Speaker
Okay.
00:43:33
Speaker
I mean, you're an exotic dancer.
00:43:34
Speaker
You've got bad taste in music.
00:43:35
Speaker
Yep.
00:43:35
Speaker
You're right.
00:43:37
Speaker
Oh, wow.
00:43:38
Speaker
Okay.
00:43:38
Speaker
Ask me any question about Kraftwerk.
00:43:40
Speaker
Go ahead.
00:43:40
Speaker
Okay.
00:43:42
Speaker
I have no idea what you're talking about.
00:43:44
Speaker
Nobody does.
00:43:45
Speaker
Nobody does.
00:43:46
Speaker
I do.
00:43:47
Speaker
But then again, me and Martin talk behind the scenes.
00:43:50
Speaker
Oh, wow.
00:43:51
Speaker
Okay.
00:43:51
Speaker
So two things.
00:43:53
Speaker
One, when Nirvana came out with Nevermind, what happened to the music scene?
00:44:01
Speaker
Grunge became quite popular.
00:44:02
Speaker
I remember David Coverdale of Whitesnake quoting saying the first time he watched Smells Like Teen Spirit, he knew his career was over.
00:44:09
Speaker
That was his quote.
00:44:12
Speaker
That's exactly what happened because everybody was listening to, I would say, probably the same old stuff.
00:44:18
Speaker
But Guns N' Roses rode that out for five years.
00:44:22
Speaker
It was this big...
00:44:24
Speaker
Big sunset to the glam rock era.
00:44:26
Speaker
And then when Nirvana came out and said.
00:44:28
Speaker
But guns took it to another level too.
00:44:30
Speaker
No, they did.
00:44:31
Speaker
Yeah, the same thing was said about guns as it was about Nirvana.
00:44:34
Speaker
When they came out, it was just like, holy cow.
00:44:35
Speaker
Okay, this is a little bit different than the video pop things that you see.
00:44:40
Speaker
Because the problem with the 80s was it was more about how you looked than how you sound.
00:44:44
Speaker
So where guns came in, they had the look, but they definitely had the sound and the chops and the writing and all that other stuff.
00:44:50
Speaker
Yeah.
00:44:51
Speaker
But then when Nirvana came out, it like that made you are exactly right.
00:44:56
Speaker
That made the entire 80s glam rock irrelevant.
00:45:00
Speaker
Everybody started chasing that.
00:45:02
Speaker
And in many ways, that's how this felt like in.
00:45:07
Speaker
In design, I really I'm even looking at the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles that I just got two weeks ago and I'm playing it and I'm thinking this feels different than the other board games I've had.
00:45:20
Speaker
And how long has Borg been designing?
00:45:22
Speaker
Yeah.
00:45:25
Speaker
And so this feels like he he has found a different gear that he hasn't used before.
00:45:32
Speaker
I agree.
00:45:33
Speaker
Yeah, Borg is a nice combination of unique shots you haven't seen before.
00:45:38
Speaker
And still, I think he's a great flow master as well, too.
00:45:43
Speaker
Yeah, you're getting... Again, I think you're right with the turtles.
00:45:49
Speaker
That's a nice play field, and there's a lot of action on there.
00:45:52
Speaker
I haven't played it yet.
00:45:54
Speaker
I'm dying to play the game.
00:45:56
Speaker
It's brutal.
00:45:57
Speaker
Well, the funny thing is, it's a combination of brutal and easy...
00:46:02
Speaker
Because I'm playing it alone in my basement and I'm playing four player team ups.
00:46:10
Speaker
So I'm thinking how far I can get.
00:46:14
Speaker
Josh is a better player, so he's gotten way deeper into the game, but it's fun.
00:46:20
Speaker
I like doing it.
00:46:21
Speaker
So I want to propose a question, and specifically I'm going to pose... Jeff and Scott, you're welcome to answer it, but I want to pose it to Martin because, Martin, you've owned an Iron Maiden.
00:46:32
Speaker
You own a Jurassic Park.
00:46:35
Speaker
Do you feel like we're on the third game now?
00:46:36
Speaker
Do you feel like you're starting to see a signature?
00:46:38
Speaker
Do you feel like there's certain, I'm going to call it Keith-isms, that you're starting to see flowing through these games?
00:46:47
Speaker
How...
00:46:52
Speaker
That is a really good question because there are some themes that come across, particularly upper flippers and shot variation.
00:47:03
Speaker
I think there's probably more similarities between Iron Maiden and Jurassic Park than this.
00:47:11
Speaker
I think this doesn't look and feel like either of those two, but those two have some similarities.
00:47:20
Speaker
Does that answer whether there's a style for Keith Elwin?
00:47:23
Speaker
Do you know what?
00:47:26
Speaker
I guess I could answer in saying it's not cookie cutter is what is the Elwin style.
00:47:34
Speaker
I agree.
00:47:35
Speaker
I agree that I don't feel like if you had these three right next to each other, that you would feel like you know exactly what type, you would feel that they work together, but it's not like, who's a good one to point out?
00:47:49
Speaker
Maybe Pat Lawler, you've got that shot.
00:47:53
Speaker
Scoop in front of the flipper.
00:47:55
Speaker
Yeah, that thing.
00:47:56
Speaker
And the Borg, it's always... I guess this isn't really part of the gameplay, but he always makes sure he has the three, the in lane and the two out lanes, or the five lanes in the bottom.
00:48:07
Speaker
With Keith, I don't feel like I...
00:48:10
Speaker
It bothers me when people say, oh, Iron Maiden is just, or Jurassic Park is just a rehash of Iron Maiden.
00:48:15
Speaker
I don't get that.
00:48:16
Speaker
Not at all.
00:48:17
Speaker
Not at all.
00:48:19
Speaker
No, not at all.
00:48:20
Speaker
There are some, if you overlaid them, there are some...
00:48:26
Speaker
shot directions that you could argue are in a similar location but they do completely different things it is it's now that the upper flipper does the the side ramp to that tower that comes back whereas on Iron Maiden it was a loop shot so it's the same location but doing something completely different that's the really the only similarity you can put there this is not like either of those
00:48:53
Speaker
I might have asked Keith because I heard a few rumblings about that wire form that goes from the right to the left and drops the ball on the play field.
00:49:03
Speaker
I said, you might get a few people saying, hey, is that going to wear that play field down?
00:49:09
Speaker
All the balls drop, drop, drop, same spot over and over.
00:49:12
Speaker
He said, don't you worry about it.
00:49:13
Speaker
Mylard, it's fine.
00:49:15
Speaker
Not a worry.
00:49:15
Speaker
So I know there are people asking about it and I'm sure it's on Pinside and stuff.
00:49:20
Speaker
Apparently not a concern with that.
00:49:22
Speaker
But
00:49:23
Speaker
Keith was on final round and he talked about he wants to make every game different.
00:49:28
Speaker
He definitely has with this game, but he said there are some consistencies.
00:49:32
Speaker
He loves at least three flippers.
00:49:34
Speaker
That I think you're going to always see.
00:49:36
Speaker
He said he will always have a spinner.
00:49:39
Speaker
And I think now that we're seeing this third game, I think it's going to happen for all of his games.
00:49:46
Speaker
You won't see a scoop because it slows the game down.
00:49:50
Speaker
So, I mean, the subway is different, but that's definitely more unique.
00:49:55
Speaker
Well, that was the first thing that came to my mind as well.
00:49:58
Speaker
Do you count the PIM upkicker as a scoop or not because it doesn't shoot it back at you?
00:50:06
Speaker
You probably would.
00:50:08
Speaker
You know, I don't know.
00:50:10
Speaker
It feels different.
00:50:11
Speaker
It feels a little more like a Spider-Man.
00:50:14
Speaker
I was thinking Star Trek premium when I saw it, but go ahead.
00:50:17
Speaker
Yeah, well, I like that it just is the different... It diverts the path of the ball after it stops it.
00:50:24
Speaker
However, I like the vertical upkicker way more than I like a scoop.
00:50:29
Speaker
The scoop always feels like... I don't know how...
00:50:34
Speaker
how consistent the shot's going to be.
00:50:36
Speaker
Even in my Tron, like the scoop that shoots back, I don't know if it's going to go straight down the middle or if it's going to hit my flipper.
00:50:43
Speaker
So I like a little bit of this consistency.
00:50:46
Speaker
I'm going to go back to your question on the Keith style.
00:50:51
Speaker
I would say...
00:50:53
Speaker
The vibe that I'm getting from Keith is that there are meaningful shots, multiple meaningful shots to be played by the upper flipper as opposed to a one trick pony.
00:51:06
Speaker
I know he doesn't like repeatable shots too.
00:51:10
Speaker
I can't repeat any of them.
00:51:12
Speaker
Well, backhandable, repeatable, those kind of chopping wood things that the competitive players talk about.
00:51:19
Speaker
He doesn't like things like that.
00:51:20
Speaker
He really, and again, we talked about how many different shots are.
00:51:23
Speaker
He wants you to use the whole different play field.
00:51:26
Speaker
And the big challenge when it comes with modes, he knows that from playing, that you want the modes to be worth something.
00:51:33
Speaker
You want people to not avoid a certain path.
00:51:38
Speaker
you want people to play the whole game, I think you're going to see that.
00:51:42
Speaker
See, that's the one thing I have forced myself with Turtles is you have to make that center ramp.
00:51:48
Speaker
It is a rough, rough shot to make.
00:51:50
Speaker
But Borg and Dwight have forced you to take that shot.
00:51:55
Speaker
You need to take that risk.
00:51:57
Speaker
And I appreciate that because I have World Cup soccer, which is a fairly easy game, but that right ramp...
00:52:04
Speaker
It's just so deadly.
00:52:06
Speaker
If you don't hit it just right and go up and around, it comes screaming back right down the middle.
00:52:10
Speaker
So I never shoot the right ramp.
00:52:13
Speaker
I effectively only shoot pretty much from the goalie to the left.
00:52:16
Speaker
And so I appreciate Keith making sure that every shot you've got to make and you can feel confident.
00:52:24
Speaker
How did he put on our episode, Scott?
00:52:26
Speaker
He said he wants you to feel like you can make the shots and then kick yourself in the butt if you miss them.
00:52:32
Speaker
Yeah, basically there's some level of difficulty where, you know, it's not easy.
00:52:39
Speaker
And he spreads those shots around.
00:52:41
Speaker
And that's one thing that I took home from that interview was there are easy shots.
00:52:46
Speaker
He knows that on Jurassic Park, that T-Rex shot is automatic for me.
00:52:51
Speaker
I can hit it every single time.
00:52:54
Speaker
Other shots, the right ramp is more difficult for me.
00:52:57
Speaker
And that Raptor Tower is, that is, if I get one out of 10 times, I'm lucky.
00:53:04
Speaker
However, when I hit it, it feels so good that, okay, I tried to do, I tried to take a deep shot and it worked.
00:53:11
Speaker
And so there is this reward for making those difficult shots, but not everything in the game is that hard.
00:53:20
Speaker
So I guess the ultimate question is, is anyone here, Scott's told us he's in on an LE, is anyone here considering or are you in on one of the models of this Avengers?
00:53:32
Speaker
That's interesting.
00:53:33
Speaker
I'm definitely in on the premium for sure.
00:53:35
Speaker
It's a done deal.
00:53:37
Speaker
Marty, I'm curious because I know Marty's got four games there and he's got really, really nice games.
00:53:43
Speaker
And I think he said recently that...
Personal Connection and Storyline Integration
00:53:46
Speaker
Lord of the Rings is such a great game, but you're kind of done with it.
00:53:49
Speaker
So I wonder if this will come in.
00:53:52
Speaker
It's not exactly your theme though, is it?
00:53:53
Speaker
No.
00:53:54
Speaker
So I won't be getting this for a couple of reasons.
00:53:59
Speaker
I know a lot of people that are getting it, so I will be able to play it.
00:54:06
Speaker
But really it's just theme.
00:54:08
Speaker
For me to want to physically own a machine,
00:54:12
Speaker
I've got to feel a connection with the theme.
00:54:16
Speaker
So I don't with this, but I am desperate to play it.
00:54:22
Speaker
This just looks like the best Stern game they've ever made.
00:54:28
Speaker
They're going to have to redo that big showdown thing that they did online.
00:54:32
Speaker
Throw that one out and now put it up with people having not played the game.
00:54:36
Speaker
Correct.
00:54:37
Speaker
There's got to be some limitations on the Metallica stuff, though.
00:54:41
Speaker
Yeah.
00:54:42
Speaker
Don't share it to their fan page.
00:54:44
Speaker
But don't you like how they marketed this?
00:54:47
Speaker
Did you see who distributed it?
00:54:49
Speaker
It was Marvel who did that.
00:54:51
Speaker
Why not use that built-in audience?
00:54:53
Speaker
I think that's a great idea.
00:54:55
Speaker
Yeah, this will definitely debut on the Pinside Top 100 at number one.
00:55:02
Speaker
Yeah, and it may stay there for a while.
00:55:05
Speaker
This is one that I think has the potential to be a top three game for a long time.
00:55:12
Speaker
The only thing we haven't seen, we haven't seen the rules.
00:55:16
Speaker
I know, in Keith we trust.
00:55:18
Speaker
I think that, isn't Lonnie doing the code on this as well, I think?
00:55:22
Speaker
No, no, I don't think.
00:55:24
Speaker
Rick Nagel is your guy.
00:55:26
Speaker
And based on those six characters that you were mentioning earlier, does that mean there are six modes, six main modes?
00:55:33
Speaker
I know his idea was to make this a little more...
00:55:38
Speaker
complicated than Iron Maiden, but not as complicated as Jurassic Park.
00:55:45
Speaker
So somewhere in between there, maybe even for gameplay too.
00:55:48
Speaker
I don't know.
00:55:49
Speaker
We'll have to see.
00:55:50
Speaker
Well, I do know the one thing that they did put in both trailers, Pro and Premium, is they talked about the Infinity Quests themselves and trying to obtain the six gems from Thanos before he gets them and snaps.
00:56:06
Speaker
And so I'm excited to see how that is integrated.
00:56:09
Speaker
That just...
00:56:10
Speaker
I don't know if you get, I can't wait to see what the bonuses are and stuff and how everything works.
00:56:17
Speaker
There is one thing though, Martin, that you said, there is one other thing we have not seen.
00:56:20
Speaker
And I know this is a make or break deal for some people because I seriously heard this on Teenage Mutant Turtles.
00:56:25
Speaker
I think it's absolutely stupid and ridiculous, but that's just my opinion.
00:56:30
Speaker
We haven't seen the animations yet.
00:56:31
Speaker
And, you know, that could be a deal breaker.
00:56:34
Speaker
Hmm.
00:56:35
Speaker
I based on everything they've done recently, I have a lot of faith.
00:56:39
Speaker
Their animation team is very, very good.
00:56:41
Speaker
That's, you know, you got me thinking about the, the gauntlet and the snap and the six stones.
00:56:46
Speaker
So if there are six modes, that's great that you play the modes, but my guess, and I have no knowledge of this, you probably have to complete the modes to prevent Thanos from getting those stones, which makes it again, what we talked about having to play the whole game, not just this quick path.
00:57:06
Speaker
You know, and I doubt they used the Zen Studios Infinity Gauntlet table as inspiration.
00:57:13
Speaker
I could be wrong.
00:57:14
Speaker
But the one thing I do love about that is each gem, when you start it, because there's a reality gem that messes with reality in that game.
00:57:24
Speaker
It reverses your flippers because that's messing with your reality.
00:57:28
Speaker
It would be cool to see some of that tied in.
00:57:31
Speaker
If not, oh well.
00:57:31
Speaker
I trust Keith.
00:57:33
Speaker
I know he's going to do a great job.
00:57:34
Speaker
I haven't been disappointed in any of his codes yet.
00:57:37
Speaker
You know, I kind of want to play as Thanos and I want to be gathering those stones.
00:57:42
Speaker
That's what I want to do.
00:57:43
Speaker
Maybe.
00:57:45
Speaker
What I want from this is what he was able to do on Jurassic Park versus Iron Maiden.
00:57:51
Speaker
And it was one of my criticisms that I had of Iron Maiden was I felt that I was locked into the same path each time.
00:57:59
Speaker
When it came to Jurassic Park, I had all these different options that I could choose at any particular time.
00:58:07
Speaker
That's what I want from this again is not feeling like I'm locked down a certain path that I have to play it a certain way that I've got choice.
Production Strategy and Launch Success
00:58:16
Speaker
I totally agree.
00:58:17
Speaker
So Josh, we have just been talking for nine seconds under one hour.
00:58:23
Speaker
So in five seconds, I want you to tell me if you're going to get the premium or the pro you have two seconds.
00:58:29
Speaker
I'm, I'm getting a premium.
00:58:31
Speaker
Like I haven't texted Zach yet, but I'm figuring out a way how to get the premium.
00:58:35
Speaker
Yeah.
00:58:36
Speaker
I think anyone will be happy with the Pro.
00:58:40
Speaker
They're going to be ecstatic with the premium features.
00:58:43
Speaker
Let me tell you, the only downside you have with the premium, it is the last one they do on the production line.
00:58:50
Speaker
Which sucks.
00:58:52
Speaker
You have to wait the longest.
00:58:54
Speaker
Yeah.
00:58:54
Speaker
It's true, but here's the truth of it, though.
00:58:58
Speaker
The difference between me and Scott getting, I got my Pro and he got his premium was a week.
00:59:04
Speaker
The turtles we got about roughly at the same time.
00:59:07
Speaker
Yeah.
00:59:08
Speaker
I wonder if that's going to be the case because shows like this, which have mass appeal and millions of people are going to be listening to this podcast, they're going to hear people talk about the premium.
00:59:20
Speaker
Am I sure?
00:59:21
Speaker
Or is that not the right number?
00:59:22
Speaker
Anyway, I assume so.
00:59:23
Speaker
Yes, yes.
00:59:24
Speaker
Actually, we're in the billions.
00:59:26
Speaker
Excellent.
00:59:27
Speaker
Well, international, you got three countries here.
00:59:30
Speaker
The point is, I think they're going to hear a lot of people.
00:59:33
Speaker
It's a common theme.
00:59:34
Speaker
People talking about how the premium is just lights out better than the pro.
00:59:40
Speaker
They're going to get the LEs done.
00:59:41
Speaker
No question.
00:59:41
Speaker
But I wonder if they will go premiums before pros because a lot of the pros go to locations and stuff.
00:59:48
Speaker
Well, that doesn't really happen right now.
00:59:50
Speaker
Yeah.
00:59:51
Speaker
Oh yeah.
00:59:52
Speaker
Actually that, that's a great point is that they, uh, you're right.
00:59:54
Speaker
They, uh,
00:59:56
Speaker
They tried to get it on location to develop some buzz.
00:59:59
Speaker
People go and play the game.
01:00:00
Speaker
It's like, I want to buy this game.
01:00:02
Speaker
Well, right now that's not happening.
01:00:03
Speaker
That's a very good point, Jeff.
01:00:06
Speaker
I think they do the same thing they did with Turtles.
01:00:08
Speaker
I think this is a big enough seller that the pros still do go to certain locations that will still be open and that want this product.
01:00:18
Speaker
They'll do one run of pro, get the Ellie's out of the way, maybe do another quick run of pro and then work on the premiums like they did this last one.
01:00:27
Speaker
Oh, one thing we forgot to totally talk about.
01:00:30
Speaker
How amazing is it that the accessories video came out and you got to see the top or the same day reveal as the game?
01:00:37
Speaker
I haven't even seen it.
01:00:39
Speaker
I haven't seen it either.
01:00:40
Speaker
Oh, okay.
01:00:41
Speaker
Hold it, please.
01:00:42
Speaker
I was like, it released the exact same time as the game trailers.
01:00:47
Speaker
You are sponsored by flipping out.
01:00:49
Speaker
You're talking toppers.
01:00:50
Speaker
Holy moly.
01:00:51
Speaker
And I'm not a huge topper fan, but this is, this is big in my opinion.
01:00:55
Speaker
I mean, how long did it take?
01:00:56
Speaker
Where's the star Wars topper guy?
01:00:58
Speaker
He's somewhere around here.
01:00:59
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
01:01:00
Speaker
So speaking of videos, let's talk about something.
01:01:05
Speaker
The fact that this was launched and there wasn't, first of all, there wasn't any leaked pictures of it, right?
01:01:12
Speaker
That's probably a first.
01:01:15
Speaker
Also, it doesn't look like a clean machine, if I'm being quite honest.
01:01:21
Speaker
But also, let's talk about the fact that you had your reveal video, which showed the Pro and the Premium.
01:01:29
Speaker
Then you had a Pro features video.
01:01:33
Speaker
Then you had a Premium LE features video.
01:01:35
Speaker
And you've got a game accessories trailer.
01:01:39
Speaker
They have nailed it, I think, with this launch.
01:01:42
Speaker
Well done, Zach.
01:01:44
Speaker
Do you also think that they've got the rumors under control too?
01:01:48
Speaker
Because I mean, think of Turtles.
01:01:50
Speaker
Turtles we knew of in about a year and a half in advance.
01:01:53
Speaker
I didn't know that they were coming out with another Marvel Avengers until a week before.
01:01:59
Speaker
And I definitely, I don't have any resources in the industry.
01:02:02
Speaker
Maybe you, Jeff, and you, Martin, had heard me rumblings before, but I just, it wasn't as rampant as it was.
01:02:11
Speaker
This game was not rampant as it has been in the past.
01:02:15
Speaker
When they actually said they were doing a Marvel theme, I mean, we talked about this.
01:02:18
Speaker
I was all in on Black Panther.
01:02:19
Speaker
I thought that was the obvious choice because I didn't think they would release redo Avengers so soon, except they did have those four movies.
01:02:28
Speaker
But still, that would shock me.
01:02:30
Speaker
I thought the go to was going to be Black Panther.
01:02:32
Speaker
So this totally blew me away.
01:02:36
Speaker
Yeah.
01:02:36
Speaker
Well, I do know.
01:02:38
Speaker
I didn't see anything before today.
01:02:41
Speaker
I do believe that there were some leaked pictures out there, but nobody shared them.
01:02:49
Speaker
So that's kind of different.
01:02:50
Speaker
There were some, yeah, a couple of weeks ago.
01:02:52
Speaker
And I'm...
01:02:54
Speaker
I said this to Zach Sharp today.
01:02:55
Speaker
I said, good job.
01:02:57
Speaker
I mean, this one kind of caught a lot of people off guard.
01:03:00
Speaker
You know, a lot of people have talked about the rumblings of things like Led Zeppelin and whatnot.
01:03:04
Speaker
And, you know, that wouldn't be a shock if that were to come out.
01:03:07
Speaker
But this one was a bit of a shock.
01:03:09
Speaker
And it's interesting because if they said the leak of the name before –
01:03:15
Speaker
What's the reaction?
01:03:16
Speaker
People are going to be like, oh, they've already done it.
01:03:18
Speaker
Is it a vault?
01:03:19
Speaker
When you just get to see it all at once, you're like, wow, okay.
01:03:23
Speaker
There was the teaser last week, but three days later, you get the actual video.
01:03:28
Speaker
Not a lot of rumblings, more curiosity, and not so much the instant negative complaints that people like to do when they're on those forums.
01:03:38
Speaker
I think this was really well done and a good kept secret.
01:03:42
Speaker
I am looking at that topper, by the way.
01:03:44
Speaker
Holy cow.
01:03:45
Speaker
It looks nice.
01:03:46
Speaker
Yeah.
01:03:47
Speaker
So I'm in on the topper and I'm getting the illuminated shooter rod.
01:03:51
Speaker
So I'm, this is all blingified.
01:03:53
Speaker
Yeah.
01:03:55
Speaker
That topper is good.
01:03:55
Speaker
It's got the six stones on the bottom and, you know, a lot of plastic characters, but nice.
01:04:00
Speaker
I mean, it looks pretty good.
01:04:02
Speaker
And based on what we've seen with Stern, there's probably a mode attached to it.
01:04:07
Speaker
Yep.
01:04:08
Speaker
All right.
01:04:09
Speaker
Do you guys have any closing remarks?
01:04:10
Speaker
I think we've kind of driven at home, but let's get some final wrap up thoughts.
01:04:15
Speaker
Slam dunk.
01:04:17
Speaker
Certainly wins the hype award.
01:04:19
Speaker
Graphically looks good.
01:04:20
Speaker
Looking forward to hearing the Jerry Thompson sound package.
01:04:23
Speaker
Like you say, the code is really the big, big thing for, you know, people like to play in competitions.
01:04:28
Speaker
You want to know that.
01:04:29
Speaker
First of all, you want to know what shoots well.
01:04:32
Speaker
looks fun to shoot and how the code's going to work.
01:04:35
Speaker
But it's kind of like, you know, when people say in linemen we trust, in Keith you have to trust because of his competition experience.
01:04:43
Speaker
So he knows how to make a game fun.
01:04:45
Speaker
You're going to probably have an easy multiball to start just like you do in his other games so that, you know, people...
01:04:51
Speaker
that aren't the greatest players are going to have some fun and get to see some different features, but it's going to be deeper and who knows what kind of risk reward will be there.
01:04:59
Speaker
I think this is going to be just an absolute winner for years to come.
Conclusion and Gratitude
01:05:04
Speaker
I totally agree.
01:05:05
Speaker
I, you know, we, we keep saying we don't know how Keith's going to outdo himself and he, he, he does every time.
01:05:12
Speaker
So I think it's amazing that it's not a shocker that it's just blown us out of the water.
01:05:18
Speaker
And so I can't wait.
01:05:20
Speaker
I can't wait to flip this.
01:05:22
Speaker
Um, I think, I think everyone else feels the same here.
01:05:25
Speaker
Yeah.
01:05:25
Speaker
Hey, well, you didn't get my take.
01:05:29
Speaker
Yeah.
01:05:29
Speaker
Go for it.
01:05:30
Speaker
We don't need it.
01:05:30
Speaker
Oh, but go ahead.
01:05:32
Speaker
I mean, the guest, your show, whatever.
01:05:35
Speaker
Well, considering it was the seventies theme that drove it home.
01:05:41
Speaker
Okay.
01:05:42
Speaker
Okay.
01:05:43
Speaker
You know, on a graph when, where the inflection point is, where it's going up, it's going up and it's getting steeper.
01:05:49
Speaker
And then there's one point where it just shoots straight up.
01:05:53
Speaker
I think this is that point in pinball where it's going to be marked by, you know, just as I would mark the pinball community as pinball.
01:06:05
Speaker
pre-JJP and post-JJP, I think we're going to see pre-Infinity Quest and post-Infinity Quest.
01:06:13
Speaker
I think this is such a revolution compared to anything we've seen before.
01:06:18
Speaker
You're going to see a major difference in every single game coming out.
01:06:23
Speaker
I mean, I hope so.
01:06:23
Speaker
That's good.
01:06:24
Speaker
Great.
01:06:25
Speaker
Better pinball.
01:06:25
Speaker
I'm all in.
01:06:27
Speaker
It's fantastic.
01:06:28
Speaker
This is just showing what can happen when things are even getting cooking.
01:06:33
Speaker
Like when the oven heats up so fast, you get a supernova.
01:06:37
Speaker
Okay.
01:06:40
Speaker
We've heard moguls.
01:06:40
Speaker
We've heard cooking.
01:06:41
Speaker
We've got a lot in this podcast.
01:06:44
Speaker
I know that you love just coming on with us.
01:06:46
Speaker
Yeah, you get Scottisms.
01:06:48
Speaker
We got Keithisms and Scottisms tonight, right?
01:06:51
Speaker
Okay.
01:06:52
Speaker
Can we get back to the bidet?
01:06:56
Speaker
I don't use it as much.
01:06:57
Speaker
Toilet paper, it's easier to find and stuff.
01:07:00
Speaker
I've got it there, but it's more for – it's like a treat once in a while.
01:07:05
Speaker
I'm like, you know what?
01:07:06
Speaker
Here.
01:07:07
Speaker
All right.
01:07:08
Speaker
The bidet is a treat.
01:07:09
Speaker
All right.
01:07:10
Speaker
That should be the title of this podcast.
01:07:13
Speaker
Oh, my goodness.
01:07:17
Speaker
Well, let's –
01:07:19
Speaker
Jeff, Martin, I love you guys to pieces.
01:07:22
Speaker
I really, honestly, I can't speak higher of you guys.
01:07:25
Speaker
You just, you guys are awesome in this hobby.
01:07:28
Speaker
We really appreciate you coming on.
01:07:30
Speaker
And where can people find you?
01:07:33
Speaker
Where do you want them to chit chat with you at?
01:07:36
Speaker
You can check us out at Final Round Pinball on Facebook, on Instagram, and on Twitter.
01:07:43
Speaker
That's news to me.
01:07:43
Speaker
All right.
01:07:44
Speaker
Okay.
01:07:44
Speaker
I didn't know we had those.
01:07:45
Speaker
That's good.
01:07:46
Speaker
You can also check out Martin on Melbourne.
01:07:49
Speaker
You can also check out Martin on Melbourne Silver Ball, a great stream with a bunch of different streamers he's got on there.
01:07:55
Speaker
I occasionally do this thing on Pinball Profile, but we're having a lot of fun together on Final Round.
01:08:00
Speaker
I really enjoy that.
01:08:01
Speaker
And I don't know if you saw...
01:08:03
Speaker
you know, here you are doing this reaction to the streams.
01:08:06
Speaker
Well, we did a reaction to the reaction videos, Marty and I. And if you noticed, Marty was rocking the Loser Kid podcast hat, in fact.
01:08:17
Speaker
Yep.
01:08:18
Speaker
Yep.
01:08:19
Speaker
Best hat ever.
01:08:20
Speaker
Yep.
01:08:21
Speaker
Well, and I love that you're going out car shopping.
01:08:23
Speaker
You're showing off all, you know, you're sponsoring us during the sponsors to your sponsors.
01:08:27
Speaker
So that was awesome.
01:08:29
Speaker
That's right.
01:08:29
Speaker
It's like meta.
01:08:30
Speaker
Yeah.
01:08:31
Speaker
But no, we do appreciate, you know, like I said, I don't know if you guys have ever met Martin and Jeff personally, but these guys are just fantastic.
01:08:41
Speaker
If you ever see them in public, shake their hand.
01:08:43
Speaker
No, don't.
01:08:44
Speaker
It's COVID.
01:08:44
Speaker
Bear hug.
01:08:45
Speaker
Bear hug.
01:08:46
Speaker
Get away from us.
01:08:47
Speaker
Put on a mask.
01:08:49
Speaker
Take Marty for a gin.
01:08:51
Speaker
Jeff for his favorite.
01:08:52
Speaker
What is your favorite drink, Jeff?
01:08:54
Speaker
Fireball.
01:08:55
Speaker
Well, actually not true.
01:08:57
Speaker
My favorite drink is actually Dr. Pepper.
01:09:00
Speaker
Take him for Dr. Pepper.
01:09:02
Speaker
I'm a massive Dr. Pepper fan, but because it's 130 calories a can and I'm trying not to be so chubby, I've switched to Diet Pepsi, which is a fine alternative.
01:09:12
Speaker
But if you're talking booze, yeah, Fireball is certainly a lot of fun.
01:09:16
Speaker
You don't like the Diet Dr. Pepper?
01:09:18
Speaker
I mean, that's what I drink.
01:09:19
Speaker
It's okay.
01:09:21
Speaker
It's okay.
01:09:21
Speaker
Okay.
01:09:22
Speaker
All right.
01:09:22
Speaker
Not the same.
01:09:22
Speaker
All right.
01:09:24
Speaker
I, I, I'm a doc.
01:09:26
Speaker
I'm a diet Pepsi fan too.
01:09:27
Speaker
I'm not really a diet Coke fan.
01:09:28
Speaker
So.
01:09:30
Speaker
All right, Scott, you want to do the wrap-up for us?
01:09:33
Speaker
Sure.
01:09:34
Speaker
So check us out about every, well, about two to three weeks on the Loser Kid Pinball Podcast.
01:09:40
Speaker
If you want to reach out to us, we are readily available on Facebook.
01:09:44
Speaker
You can message the podcast page, Loser Kid Pinball, or you can message Josh or me.
01:09:50
Speaker
We actually respond quite quickly.
01:09:53
Speaker
We also have a Twitter handle and an Instagram page.
01:09:58
Speaker
feed.
01:09:58
Speaker
Josh, what's the Twitter handle and what's the Instagram feed?
01:10:02
Speaker
At LoserkidPinball and at LoserkidPinball.
01:10:06
Speaker
And certainly if you feel so inclined, hop on and give us a review, especially on iTunes.
01:10:12
Speaker
It does help our search rating.
01:10:14
Speaker
And please go and continue to check out Final Round Pinball on the TPN and certainly support all our friends.
01:10:23
Speaker
We appreciate again for Marty and Jeff to come on the show tonight and play good pinball.
01:10:30
Speaker
And if you're going to leave a review for the super awesome pinball show, please make sure it has the word satisfying and knocked it out of the park in the, in the review itself.
01:10:39
Speaker
So world, world under glass too.
01:10:41
Speaker
Can you add canned laughter to a review?
01:10:43
Speaker
Is that possible?
01:10:44
Speaker
Yeah.
01:10:47
Speaker
Thank you.
01:10:48
Speaker
Thank you guys so much.
01:10:49
Speaker
It's always a pleasure having you on.
01:10:52
Speaker
I guess we'll have to do this again soon sometime.
01:10:54
Speaker
Hey, anytime.
01:10:55
Speaker
Thanks guys.
01:11:00
Speaker
Shut up and sit down.