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Episode #014 - Andrew Shaw - Professional Coach & Speaker
170 Plays2 years ago
Today's guest is Andrew Shaw, he is a professional coach and speaker, helping professionals with emotional intelligence and mental resilience. Andrew has also amassed a large following on social media, with his short insights and wisdom with day to day topics including communication, resilience, self development and more.
In this episode, Andrew and I discuss the art of discipline, how to develop self control, why you should allow yourself to feel emotions, including anger. How suppressing emotions could be a sign of emotional dis-regulation, and much more.
For anyone who has not seen Andrew's videos on instagram, they are useful clips that help nudge you back on the right path and have resonated with many people across the globe. Great insights that are thought provoking.
Instagram - @andrewshawBSC
Web: https://andrewshawbsc.com/
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Transcript
Introduction to Andrew Shaw and His Work
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello and welcome back to Perspectives. Today's guest is Andrew Shaw. He's a professional coach and speaker, helping professionals with emotional intelligence and mental resilience. Andrew has also amassed quite a large following on social media, with his short insights and wisdom with day-to-day topics including
00:00:21
Speaker
communication, resilience, self-development and much more. In this episode, Andrew and I discuss the art of discipline, how to develop self-control, why you should allow yourself to feel emotions, including anger, how suppressing your emotions could be a sign of emotional dysregulation and much more. For anyone who has not seen Andrew's videos on Instagram,
00:00:47
Speaker
They are extremely useful little clips that help nudge you back on the right path and for me personally they have resonated with me quite a lot. I find they have helped with some areas of my life that I perhaps struggle with and I know they have resonated with a lot of people across the globe. Some great insights that are thought provoking so do check it out but without further ado Andrew Shaw.
The Role of Emotions in Personal Development
00:01:18
Speaker
you
00:01:37
Speaker
Andrew Shaw, a very, very warm welcome to the show. I'm very much a fan of your work and we were just talking about how you're sort of different from the rest and the way you present yourself. So for anyone who isn't familiar with who you are, how would you describe who you are and what you do essentially? OK, so I work with professionals to help them, I suppose, crux of it with
00:02:05
Speaker
mental resilience and emotional intelligence and
00:02:10
Speaker
do that through online. It's part of my coaching program. And then also occasionally do talks for companies. I've been invited out overseas this year for a fair bit, which due to the growth, I suppose, of my account. So doing some talks abroad, which is fantastic about what I do, I suppose.
00:02:39
Speaker
my message and ideology if you call it that and yeah I think that's that's essentially what I do been doing that for a little while used to work as a health and well-being
00:02:54
Speaker
physiologist for a health company and then went out on my own about five years ago and then yeah here we are getting invited to be guest and speaking but yeah that's that's how I would I would say when I what is that I do as a professional dad divorcee resident of West Sussex
00:03:20
Speaker
but a mortgage works nationwide what else is there to say do a bit of climbing do a bit of jujitsu training but yeah that's that's me i suppose in a nutshell excellent
00:03:32
Speaker
Yeah, so obviously you've amassed quite a following on social media, which we were just talking about before. Your, I think your clips on, you know, navigating life and relationships and all these other different facets of life. I think, I think they serve as quite a nice sort of a gentle nudge in the right direction compared to some of the more overzealous, overpowering individuals, which we were talking about just before we started
Societal Expectations and Emotional Challenges
00:03:57
Speaker
the recording.
00:03:57
Speaker
Yeah, I think, and just, I just wanted to clarify, it's with regards to the relationship, I cannot profess, that's not really something I intend to, I haven't figured that one out yet. Yes. So it's something I think I will, let's say, not advise, I can advise people on their own communication and how to, let's say, improve and conduct a relationship, but with regards to the relationship,
00:04:28
Speaker
conundrum it's it's one I'm yet to solve but I'm working on it I mean I'm in the trenches doing research and what have you but we were yeah so and it is I think it's just a lot of people that message me a comment just they watch my clip and then they'll message me and they're like
00:04:47
Speaker
I don't know what I've just seen then, but it really resonated. And it's, I suppose, someone actually said it's done the things that people aren't talking about. And I'm like, I'm going to talk about this because it was helpful for me. And these, I suppose, challenges that people face.
00:05:06
Speaker
I think because they're not spoken about, they're just left there, the undercurrent, just carrying people along. They don't realise that these things are actually determining the quality of their life and the direction of it.
00:05:22
Speaker
Yeah, and it's it's a lot of it's like so deep-rooted stuff Whereas people are dressing like the surface level stuff that I need to get this car or this promotion or Abs or something. I'm like, that's top-level stuff
00:05:38
Speaker
that's not going to make it's not going to make you happy or happiness is something to let's say go for as a girl there's a temporary feeling and another thing I'd touch on just like why chase that why not go for peace and contentment as opposed to a temporary feeling because that's
00:05:57
Speaker
You're a little bit, I suppose, deluded to think that, you know, that's something that can be attainable. But yeah, for me, it's nice to hear that our people are finding it helpful and resonating with it because it's all my own, I suppose, experience, which is, I suppose, why I can articulate it so clearly because I'm just saying, yeah, this is what happened and this is...
00:06:23
Speaker
how I overcome this challenge, hurdle, and these are the steps that I took to overcome it. People will just raise their hands and say, yeah, I struggle with that. I'm like, yeah, there's eight billion people on the planet. It's not a unique thing. A lot of people, I'm just saying that I struggled with it, which is
00:06:46
Speaker
I think they're a relief because I think a lot of people I've spoken to, they think it's like a personal thing and it's unique to them. And I'm like, no, no, no, this is a common thing. When someone raises their hand, other people are more inclined to raise their hand and say,
00:07:01
Speaker
Yeah, that's that's me as well and it's it's the same scenarios. It's the same problems that people are facing and Yeah, some sort of shining a light on it and offering I suppose some tools some strategies for navigating it
00:07:21
Speaker
I see in a lot of what you do, I see the principles of stoicism a lot come through in what you discuss.
Influence of Stoicism on Emotional Intelligence
00:07:28
Speaker
Is that a fair assessment? Yeah, I would say so. The qualifications that I've done and the books I read are either in psychology, physiology or philosophy. I read books that I'm not one for
00:07:46
Speaker
biographies or anything like that. Those are my three areas and I suppose that's sort of amalgamated into my ideology. So that's where that philosophy aspect comes in, things that I've found very helpful and even looking at the psychology aspect of it because there's a lot of
00:08:09
Speaker
components to psychology that certain practices and therapies that go back to philosophy, you know, they're like sort of rooted in in stoicism, right? Hmm, okay, still a little bit more into this. This is obviously she got some legs because it's thousands of years old. It stood the test of time. Whereas everything else has been weeded out. So yes, that's that's as an accurate assumption.
00:08:36
Speaker
I think it's probably a bit like first principles of, you know, physics and engineering really, isn't it? Like the sort of stoicism tends to be the fundamental first principles of philosophy, so to speak. There's a few topics I wanted to get into today, you know, the first being based off your videos, really, but the first being discipline and self-control. And there's this idea or this virtue that stoics use, which is temperance, and that's the art of restraint or self-control and
00:09:06
Speaker
And I think discipline is perhaps the area that I find personally most valuable within stoicism. And I think there's so many teachings that I've listened to or read from Marcus Aurelius, Seneca, all these sorts of things that are really stuck in my head. And there's one that Marcus Aurelius said, which is to be strict with yourself, but then tolerant of others.
00:09:29
Speaker
So says lenient lenient so so similar, but you know this is yeah I think this is particularly useful when you have people that you meet in your day, which are You perceive as you know being rude or you know someone's being miserable or acts in a manner in which you don't like and you know it's there's another part of it where she says you know it's you should expect that you will encounter people in your day and
00:09:51
Speaker
that are going to act in a way in which we don't like. So you should just kind of prepare yourself for it anyways and not let it take you by surprise. And I like the one of... Yeah, I like the one of... Brian Holiday does a book called Discipline is Destiny and there's a nice summation I think of what it embodies really for the whole teachings of self-control and the one that basically says like when we are offended and when we engage in that fight we are
00:10:19
Speaker
you know we've chosen to engage and we are complicit you know it's it's letting in there I think yes it's got the best of our self-control and our good nature and yeah we've kind of you know given ourselves to it yeah yeah and yeah just to touch on your point I don't know if it was markers
00:10:38
Speaker
or it is that said about expecting people in this day, it may be, I thought it was similar. It's a similar story. It might have been, it might have been, regardless. Churchillian drift, as they call it. Yeah, and that's the thing, to expect these people as part of our day and just, you know, from that acceptance and allowing and accommodating, you know, that's a big thing, accommodating people,
00:11:06
Speaker
Because when we fight against it and say, this shouldn't be, you know, with them, we start moving into areas, distortions, our perceptions of things which can cause us to suffer. And for me, yeah, I'm very much on board with that. Very much, you know, at the start of my day, knowing there's going to be people waiting for me, you know, they're in the bushes just waiting to jump out and annoy me. And it's a test for me. I'm just like, how am I going to respond to that?
00:11:36
Speaker
Yeah, it's same. It's like when we get in traffic, isn't it? It's like we people when you're in a traffic jam, it's so easy to just get so frustrated because it's something that, you know, yeah, but we can expect it is probably going to happen at some point that you're going to get stuck in traffic. And, you know, I'm, you know, I'm human just like anyone else. And I do let my emotions get the better of me. And it never tends to end in a positive way. But
00:12:01
Speaker
I'm acutely aware of that especially with so things like traffic and stuff now don't seem to bother me as much as they used to compared to you know other I try not let myself get frustrated by that sort of thing just because I know it's good for you yeah what is it the Latin I'm more farty
00:12:19
Speaker
It's like a love of fate. It's like, okay, I'm in this traffic jam. I'm stuck here again on the M25 on this cursed bit of tarmac that must be built on an Indian burial ground or something. But I'm here. This has happened. Someone's failed to drive in a straight line. And this is my situation. Fine.
00:12:44
Speaker
What can I do? I know. I'll continue listening to my audiobook. I've been given the gift of time. All right. I'm going to be out. What can I do? I'll phone ahead and just say, look, I might be slightly delayed.
Reframing Challenges and Managing Emotions Effectively
00:12:57
Speaker
This has happened. And it is. That's helped me. No end.
00:13:02
Speaker
Just that little statement, principle, maxim, whatever you want to call it. You could be parked next to a guy who hasn't accepted this, and he would be losing his rag as you look over, enjoying your audiobook.
00:13:22
Speaker
the scenery and it's a nice day and going okay this has happened and he's in there just bashing his head against the steering wheel and hating life and my I know which I know which one I'd rather be and and it is just accepting that practicing it and just yeah a lot of ease and contentment and not sort of elevating of course soul levels and several so regularly but yeah that's my take on it
00:13:49
Speaker
The beauty of the mundane is that you kind of look to the positives out of the situation. Yeah, reframing is something that I've always done. You know, just taking that and saying, OK, well, this is the situation. This has happened. What's going to be my response to it? What is this is outside my control? This has happened. This is fate. And what can I do now? What can I do in this situation?
00:14:15
Speaker
could moan and complain but that's just a play of a weak ego and that's not going to do anything for me or I could get on with this or I could use this time to do this and that's something I'm a big advocate of just there is no dead time to me I'm just like it's a terrible thing to waste and people are just
00:14:40
Speaker
Yeah, I don't when people say that, oh, I'm just kidding a bit of time. I mean, I understand the words coming out of their mouth, but I just don't understand them as a person or a human. I'm just like, OK, fine. You do that. And it's not a judgment thing, you know.
00:14:58
Speaker
do your thing. But for me, I'm like, I'm going to use this time to do this, which is productive. And it's not about, for me, not always being productive, but just like I like doing this thing. So I'm going to do more of it. And I'm going to use this time to do more of that. So yeah, heat waste.
00:15:20
Speaker
You mentioned weakness there, and I think the idea of weakness shows up a lot, especially in modern social media about people trying to better themselves. We talked about these people before, the ones who are kind of very in your face and saying, you need to act together essentially and do stuff. But you did a post around this and weakness, and I think that the title was along the lines of weak people
00:15:49
Speaker
people who lose their calm, who get angry, who give in to passions and their emotions and have no self-control. And you also stated that someone who doesn't feel anything like an emotionless man is also, we say man is a general term for, you know,
00:16:05
Speaker
Mankind is what I'm reading into that but said to be I said, yeah So, um, so you also stated, you know, the emotion of this man is a weak man as well. So so what does that that term Weakness mean to you say and can you expand on that?
Understanding Weakness and Emotional Regulation
00:16:20
Speaker
So, just to clarify, when I'm saying like that, like a weak-minded, or, you know, inferring to undeveloped, I don't like to attack an individual, or like sort of, you know, not then, they just don't know.
00:16:35
Speaker
Yeah, you know, it's capable. I was in that position. Do you know what I mean? I've been weak-minded. I've been an angry person. And it's just through change and knowing and implementing that change. It's got me to that position. And I think
00:16:56
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's just developing. Would you mind just going over your question? Again, please, Rhys. Like the original question. It was like, what does it mean to me?
00:17:08
Speaker
Yeah, so the term like weakness, or at least can you expand on the points you made about, you know, what you were getting at when you were saying that someone who is an emotionalist or someone who gives into their passions and their, you know, their emotions, you know, why would that be considered a weakness? What's the thought process behind that?
00:17:28
Speaker
So for me, this is not a contentious issue, but I think this is something a lot of people get aggravated about in my comments section. I say a lot, but it will be the 10% and then the 10% love it. And then the 80% are like, okay, watch this. For me, that weakness is unregulated. It's like emotional dysregulation.
00:17:55
Speaker
That's a weak or underdeveloped ego. And it comes from, you know, and it doesn't mean it's a permanence. It doesn't mean that you can't. I've been there, been that angry person, that angry dad. And yeah, not hardly marital conflict. Well, not have anything relationship conflict. Well, been there. And it's not a sentence. It's not like, you know, this is it. You cannot change this.
00:18:25
Speaker
I'm very much a boner of changes, absolutely possibly. Neuroplasticity makes this so we can rewire, we can improve, we can change. And for me, it's emotional dysregulation. They just don't know because they haven't been shown. That's all. And it's not permanent position.
00:18:51
Speaker
Sometimes it's a belief, and if they don't get angry, or it's a sign of dominance, or it's a sign of strength to display or cause a fray,
00:19:07
Speaker
and I'm like not really to witness because you've just not regulated that emotion or you're scared of experiencing this emotion and so you'll do something something else to avoid it. For me it's clarifying to people that
00:19:24
Speaker
we should humanize, normalize, experiencing emotion and urge. That's it. That's just that limbic animal part of our brain just doing its thing, you know, that driver. And it's the regulation comes from allowing ourselves time to respond to or react to it. So it's not, it's just say, you know, same with parenting. You know, I see a lot of parents like, why did you do that for or what, you know, it's like,
00:19:54
Speaker
what made you think that was okay i'm like the urge is there to the kid to hit the other kid or snatch or do that i'm just like
00:20:02
Speaker
Let's normalize that urge and same with, you know, adults as well, that emotion and just like completely normal to experience this. Just work on the regulation, like behaviour, two separate things, you know, these emotions and then our actions. Let's separate the two. It's not to say we suppress. It's not to say we ignore or try and avoid and make them go away.
00:20:31
Speaker
I'm just doing this action whilst experiencing and taking, you know, regulating, not letting this drive the vehicle, so to speak. It's just like, right, this can just be the difficult passenger. I'm going to be in charge and drive the vehicle.
00:20:49
Speaker
this emotion that can go in the passenger seat, be there, do the thing, play around with the radio setting, turn all the aircon on and try and do that.
00:21:05
Speaker
and influence, and we still get to, we're in charge, we're driving the vehicle. So it's not about making these things go away, it's possible. I mean, you can do, let's put to an extent, with medication, you know, a lot of people take medication to suppress this stuff, or they'll, you know, or medicate with drink, drug, you know, to avoid this fear. I'm just like, hmm, why don't you just let this be?
00:21:33
Speaker
A lot of problems come from people just not wanting to experience this emotion. I'm just like, it's not a bad thing. You know, you'll take its feedback. It's not just data. It's neurophysiological responses trying to tell us something.
00:21:54
Speaker
But for me, it's not the individual. They just don't know. And just like your ego can be strengthened from an underdivert, or it can be, let's say, lessened from the big ego, and just get to a strong sense of self.
00:22:10
Speaker
to be aware, to be emotionally regulated. So that's what I'm targeting now. When I say, like, we-minded individuals, it's just they don't know yet. And it's very easy. I see people take offense to it. I'm like, okay, it's a bit A. I'm just like, yep, this is just someone saying sort of words. You're interpreting it. You've chosen to be offended by it. You've chosen
00:22:36
Speaker
And now you're, because you're hurt, you will now hurt back. You're sending me an all caps comment. And yeah, don't realize you're actually pushing me up the algorithms. You know, like a knee joke. It's just like, I'm hungry. I'm going to let that anger.
00:22:58
Speaker
haven't realized they've let that anger dominate control them take the steering wheel and that's then determined that's driving the vehicle that's getting them to they fire it off without even realizing they're just like ah why am i stuck here why am i single why am i going out this trip i'm just like hmm i've got an idea i can i can maybe suggest why this is happening why are you struggling with this um so that's what i mean by
00:23:27
Speaker
Have you found in your clients at all a noticeable difference in that sort of approach between the age generation?
Generational Differences in Emotional Openness
00:23:37
Speaker
So for example, I think the boomer generation and the sort of parents, grandparents,
00:23:43
Speaker
I tend to find that they are of the generation where a lot of this stuff, the emotion stuff, it was just not discussed at all. I think for the younger generations or my generation coming through and the one before me or after me, it's becoming a lot more well discussed. This whole idea of discussing your emotions and this idea of masculinity seems to have evolved and changed a bit from
00:24:09
Speaker
you know, going back a few years where it was very much, you know, stiff up a lip, get on with it, don't, you know, don't display your emotion in any way, and then it became, you know, physical dominance was your sign of strength. Yeah. Do you see that in your practice or do you see it changing somewhat? Yeah. I mean, I can see it to an extent where, you know, the people in my age group and that old school,
00:24:38
Speaker
they're the ones that are struggling with this. And it's there, I suppose, the younger people that I speak to, not necessarily clients, but people I have conversations with or message me, they seem to be more open to discuss this. It's not such a belief or a, you know, people, they won't want to experience certain emotions because they believe it to be bad. They were told that
00:25:03
Speaker
Anger is our sadness. You know, they're told that stiff-up lip approach. No, you're not sad. You're not angry. And then everyone's just like a bit confused. I feel this way, but I'm not. Or I feel guilt, shame around experiencing that anger, sadness. So I'm like, secondary emotion, that's even more suffering.
00:25:28
Speaker
needless as well. And I just like to steer people towards the, you know, people when they say, oh, you know, shouldn't experience that, shouldn't have that, shouldn't. And like, if you absolutely should, with these primary big painful emotions trying to tell you something.
00:25:47
Speaker
I'm like, experience them, fully allow yourself to experience them, but regulate the behavior behind them, you know, whilst you're experiencing them, I should say. And if you, and they're like, oh no, I shouldn't experience that, I shouldn't have that. I'm like,
00:26:04
Speaker
No, no, no. This is normal. Everyone experiences these things. Your choice to suppress them or feel guilty about having them is your choice. And that's going to cause you a lot of problems. You don't believe you can change them. I can't change them.
00:26:20
Speaker
But if you just steer a lot of guys and just say, well, look at your elite athletes or professional sports person, you know, when they're scoring a goal or touchdown or try, they are elated, like they're fully in those big emotions, like taking a shot, like running around, diving into the crowd. And I'm just like, yeah, they're fully tapped in. And then if they lose, they'll be on the pitch and they will cry.
00:26:49
Speaker
And I'm just like, that's it. That's why they're so at that level, because they're using those, they're fully tapped in to those big emotions. They're not worried about not displaying them or not having them. I'm just like, they're using that very, I suppose, regulated. I'm not talking about the, you know, the players that aren't unregulated as they come through, you know, supporters and they kind of jump in and, you know, punching other people. I'm like, they're,
00:27:18
Speaker
that needs some work and some regulation to be done there. I'm just talking about those high performers that tapped in and can regulate and use those emotions to tap into those big ones. So for me, yeah, I do see with, let's say, the older generation that have been told that they're not feeling a certain emotion or that then leads them to feel guilt and shame around experiencing certain emotions.
00:27:45
Speaker
So it is just unpicking that and saying, let's delve into this. Let's, you know, let's have a go at that. Because I'm that person that I will fully, you know, I encourage people to explore that. Let's, I suppose, turn that dial, your willingness dial, to experience this emotion or this pain.
00:28:09
Speaker
like emotional pain. I'm like, let's turn that all the way up to a 10. People don't even know that, you know, they're trying to faff around with the pain. I'm like, that's broken. That's coming. You know, whether you can play around with that dog as much as you like.
00:28:24
Speaker
pain is coming you could try and suppress it or what's going to improve quality of your life massively so if you go to that other dial that willingness dial to experience pain emotional pain physical pain just turn that all the way up you're not seeking it you're just going when it comes i'm going to fully let this be just turn that all the way up i'm like
00:28:46
Speaker
That's great because then we're no longer sort of closed off. We don't have these detuned or borderline superficial experiences in life because everyone's like, oh, I don't want to feel like that. This was, that was really painful and that relaxed relationship. So I'm not going to let myself feel that pain again. I'm going to bring this right here. Unfortunately, it doesn't work like that. Like the other one comes in as well.
00:29:12
Speaker
So the things they were doing, they used to give you that elation and highs. They don't seem to bring about the same, let's say, enjoyment levels. You know, because you're here, getting these teaching, emotionally blunted experiences through life. You know, I sort of live in this. And I'm like, you find that dial.
00:29:32
Speaker
Open that all the way up. Watch the quality of your life improve because so many people are here because they're avoiding experiential avoidance essentially. They're using means to avoid the uncomfortable experience.
00:29:46
Speaker
Yeah. So it's not just a, it's not just, you can't just single out a single point in your life and suppress that. It is, you, it's all or nothing. It's, if you're suppressing one element, then it has carry over and suppression into the rest of your life. So you're kind of, you're living life in dull mode essentially is what, sort of kind of. Yeah. Yeah. It's, uh, you're not going to experience those.
00:30:08
Speaker
those highs aren't going to be as high anymore. They'll be like, that was OK or meh. Yeah. But for me, I'm like, I'm turning this fully the way up. And it's it's a whole different experience, you know, and just 4D there, you know, from where my my son's school play when he's doing that, I will be crying. I'll be like, this is amazing. And I feel such elation. And there is like
00:30:38
Speaker
I suppose a little bit of a stigma is about guys crying. Look at these professional athletes. I'm like, I do not, you know, I'm all right with that. I'm very comfortable. And I'm part of me thinking, I wonder if you believe that to be wrong because you have been told not to experience that or conduct yourself or stiff up a lip or display this. I'm like, I'm very, I'm very comfortable. Let's say I lose to something, you know, to be fighting.
00:31:06
Speaker
I get tapped out or something like that again. He's choked me out again. And yeah, that, oh God, I get so angry with that. And because I'm allowing myself to tap into it and just go, right, I'm learning so much faster because I'm just letting that emotion, I'm there for pain. It's basically an emotionally painful for me. I'm allowing myself to fully get angry.
00:31:34
Speaker
you know, not punch the opponent or conduct myself and regulate the response to it, the appropriate response. But I am allowing myself to get angry and feel that and just go, right, that make me angry doing that. And that really helps me learn a lot faster. So I'm just like, right, OK, I'm never that emotional pain.
00:32:00
Speaker
of paying X amount of money for a tournament to go down and then you're in the final and you do a stupid move or well you just don't know that this other guy just chokes you out in like 30 seconds and you're just like that make that yeah that was if you always live it i was beyond that and agree with myself and i was like okay
00:32:21
Speaker
And you know what, it just prompts me to not do that thing again. It's there. I'm just like, right, I'm not going to get out of that one. I'm not going to make that mistake again. And it just speeds up the process for me. And I think a lot of people just avoid that.
00:32:37
Speaker
Just like by allowing yourself to feel you, the kind of appropriate response becomes available to you by that. By not feeling you kind of, you won't really know what way to go. Yes, you're getting better at feeling. Not feeling, you're better at feeling this emotions. Yeah, spot on.
00:32:56
Speaker
You speak of emotions and reactions to these emotions being factors that can steer your life.
Emotions in Professional Life and Management Strategies
00:33:04
Speaker
We talked about switching up the driver position. There was a post you made about putting your life on hold in responsive events that have been perhaps unfavorable in your personal or professional capacity.
00:33:16
Speaker
I think that's one that really resonated with me hugely because there have been times where I've let my emotions get the better of me in a professional capacity. I've not raged on or anything like that, but it almost led to a sense of sort of paranoia and I was conjuring up all these different perceptions and
00:33:37
Speaker
stories of the world around me, what people were thinking of me, the motives of others, and it kind of reminded me of one of Seneca's sort of sayings about, you know, do not suffer imagined troubles, but these were all stories in my head, like I had no evidence to suggest there was any truth in any of them, and all it was doing was kind of
00:33:59
Speaker
drive me deeper down the hole. Gordon Ramsey was interviewed on a podcast recently and he said to take stuff professionally in a professional capacity, not personally. I had been ruminating about that for a while.
00:34:16
Speaker
I think it's actually quite hard to disassociate yourself from, you know, disassociate the personal from the professional because work makes up such a vast chunk of the majority of our lives. You, you know, you work with these other people on a daily basis and often you see them more than you would your, you know, your loved ones, your friends and your family.
00:34:37
Speaker
So, so I really like what he said about, you know, taking it professionally and not personally. I haven't quite figured out how to sort of create that differentiation between the two considering it's such a big, big part of the life.
00:34:51
Speaker
Yeah. I think this is, here's the thing. I used to struggle with that, like taking it personally. When I started out in business, I'm like, why didn't I want my service? Or, well, that must be something to do. I'm like, okay, it's just that you just move on. Like, let's say your door to door salesman, you're knocking on one door and you're just like, look, this is, I want to do this. So I've been working really hard on this. And you know, you're pouring your heart out to that potential customer. And they're like, no, it's not for me.
00:35:21
Speaker
and then taking it personally, stops you from knocking on the next door. That's all it is. And I'm just like, once you put that aside and just go, it's nothing to do with you, and just move on to the next door. Because we have these thoughts feeling, you know, it's just your mind doing its thing, trying to protect you from that emotional pain and just go,
00:35:44
Speaker
Don't knock on the next door because there's more that person's gonna say no and that's gonna be more emotional pain And we've got to remember that, you know our thoughts on facts their stories and we have to depict between let's say opinion and fact and just
00:36:02
Speaker
getting some clarity and getting having a decent perspective clear on you know identifying these thoughts and just examining them and say okay is that thought okay yeah is it fact or is it opinion it's an opinion okay right I can discount that one is that one fact
00:36:23
Speaker
Yes, that's fine. OK, that's OK. And it is for me just differentiating between the two, because your mind is just like this problem solving machine. And it will, let's say, beat you up at times as well. There can be some critical self-talk, which is not helpful, comes from, let's say,
00:36:45
Speaker
and myriad of factors over our lives be, you know, overly critical parents or maladaptive sibling rivalry. Let's say it could be toxic relationships or friends or society or, you know, sort of inefficient management style.
00:37:04
Speaker
And they can, you know, that can all over time can all lead to that inner critic. But we've got to understand that that is probably like a core belief there somewhere around this just like service level. This person is not going to buy my service. But it's hard because you have to go down and down and down and like discover what the core belief is behind it.
00:37:29
Speaker
I'm not good enough. You know, that could be a cool belief or this, whatever it is, this personal thing that we've devised created in times of stress or our formative years. And it's just like sort of causing these problems, like top level is I'm always going to fail this or, you know, I'll never get this right. And once we, I digress a little, once we, um, once we separate that personal, um, professional and just go, right, okay.
00:37:58
Speaker
Let's not take this person. Let's just move on to the next person. Let's send that next email, or let's post that next thing. Because that's what stops a lot of people. They take it personally when they get caught up in this rumination about an event.
00:38:15
Speaker
and your mind's just hooked you and there you are you're like going down the whirlpool you know and just like fixated on the problem and everything becomes insular i've been there and you're just like right need to get out of this we need to every single every single scenario that could unhook that's it you know the worst case you just go to that right yeah and it's just like sometimes as i'll repeat that could be like the same story i'll repeat
00:38:44
Speaker
And it's very, very painful because we've then sworn these, I suppose, negative appraisals. And then there's an emotion attached to it. And that drives us further and further down and down and down. You go down that whirlpool of thought and it's a, yeah, dark and painful place. You know, just to not to get out early, like to pick up on those thoughts and go, oh,
00:39:09
Speaker
thought that diffusion takes away that takes away us getting caught up in it and not taking action because I see it all the time. I'll start something with someone and then we'll go along and then something will happen to them.
00:39:26
Speaker
an event, whatever it may be, something in their life. It could just be like a little thing. Well, it's a big thing to them. But that will catch them. And then I won't see them again for months. And then they'll come back and they're all like, OK, how are you? Oh, this happened. I'm like, I just lost four months of like your time doing something that you enjoy because you got caught up in that thing.
00:39:53
Speaker
and then yeah it's just our mind in some weird wonderful way trying to protect us from that emotional pain and yeah it's uh trickable yeah i think that leads me quite nicely onto this this next idea and i think it's it's been quite a prominent feature on your instagram stories and it's that the calendar of life or in your life in weeks so oh yeah the stoics called it momentum warrior or the yeah the reminder that you know death is inevitable
00:40:23
Speaker
And my own perception of that is the brevity of life and just how short life is.
Embracing Life's Brevity and Taking Risks
00:40:29
Speaker
And there's almost like an antidote to that, what we've just discussed. Knowing that life is so short and that sort of realization that life has that brevity to it.
00:40:40
Speaker
No, it's allowed me to try new things despite the fear of doing so just because I know that it's, you know, I might not get the opportunity to do it again. Yeah. I also find it really quite terrifying. Like it's, you know, I've just turned 27. So I'm still fairly young, but I feel like my life is already flying by and where my biggest fear is is
00:41:01
Speaker
is not living up to my true potential by not doing these things or being put off by other people by not doing that. So I wanted to understand, because I know you like taking off the weeks as they go by as well, what is this idea of momentum or your relationship with death? What does that mean to you?
00:41:20
Speaker
I think it's, for me, it's the one fear. Sounds a bit Lord of the Rings. It's the one fear that rules them all. And it's just, it's there. It's happening. It's inevitable. But people are like, oh no, I don't want to open that box. So when I post that story,
00:41:41
Speaker
I get mixed reviews from it. Some people like that is horrifying. How are you doing? I'll put the poll up and you know, it's usually quite an even split. I'm like, if you can get over this, if you can accept this, the inevitable.
00:41:56
Speaker
will do wonders for you. You'll probably have a more enjoyable life because you're willing to take, not reckless risk, but calculated risk, and you'll be a little bit more open to these opportunities that come up. You're more likely to go, actually, I'm going to start that business. I'm going to talk to that.
00:42:17
Speaker
I'm going to do that. I'm going to tick that off the bucket list and get that done. Because people make the mistake of thinking they've got time. I'm like, no, you haven't. You putting it off or back loading your life till retirement, can we swear? Yeah. When you're too fucked to do anything about it. And I'm just like, that's not a great plan. And you're putting something off until this date, which might not never come.
00:42:47
Speaker
You know, it might not have come because we don't know that that's not promised to us. I'm just like, you know, this highlight every week, just I am just improving my relationship with that fear that rules most people's lives. I'm like, you can become comfortable with that. That's going to help. I remember I think that's four or five.
00:43:09
Speaker
when I found out about death and that I was going to die, like grasp the concept. I remember it was really painful. I remember crying about it on the landing of like an old house and I was inconsolable for like half a day. I really, yeah, it's quite vivid. And then over time, you know, I've had these events, family with
00:43:33
Speaker
my previous employment with the fire service and, you know, giving people CPR, sometimes unsuccessfully, you know, they die there and then and just watching them like sort of, you know, or holding their hand whilst they've been in a car crash and, you know, you're holding their hand and they pass over, so they don't make it. And it just, and all of those instances, as well as
00:43:58
Speaker
visiting, we would go to elderly people's home, I'd sort of care homes and do tours, I say. And I would sit down with some, and because they were more than, you know, happy to chat and have a cup of tea and a biscuit, and I'm like, yes, melted milk, brilliant. So I would have a conversation, it'd be the same things come up, like these regrets about what they didn't do with their life.
00:44:23
Speaker
They offer it up and I'd pay attention. And it was always the same things. They're in no position to do that. All they've got is these regrets. And I was like, oh my goodness, this is terrible. This is a horror story you're telling me. And I'm like, I'm not going to make this mistake of getting to this point, you know, sat down in this retirement pose, watching him down and, you know, telling someone what they didn't do in their life.
00:44:52
Speaker
I'm like, so it's all of having all of those experiences have helped me to form a solid, healthy relationship with death and just go, you know, just realizing time and just say, let's not waste this. Let's not not take that opportunity to do this thing with our lives.
00:45:15
Speaker
because you don't know yet seen enough people pass over, experience that, you know, when my ex-wife, you know, when she had cancer, like spending a part of 18 months and unsealed the ward at the Royal Marston.
00:45:31
Speaker
and you see people, and then you stop talking to them, and then you go back in for the next about treatment session, and then that person wasn't there anymore. And you're just like, oh, didn't see Terry. Yeah, he passed. And you're like, oh, okay. And so all of those are just
00:45:53
Speaker
been aware of it recently. I just thought of all these type of incidents and I'm like, okay, had this, you know, witnessed it, you know, people passing and just clocked to these experiences. I'm like, this is all helpful to me. And that calendar is just above my desk.
00:46:10
Speaker
That's just a, just a note to myself to just go, okay, it's ticking, it's going, it's moving along, it's approaching. Let's do something. Let's get these enjoyable, this stuff, not ticked off, like work on that meaningful stuff, because I'll, yeah.
00:46:29
Speaker
presents, isn't it? It's sort of being, you know, being present in the moment. And I've spoken about this with another guest of mine about, you know, this time, you know, we're already in May now, so it's, you know, first quarter of the year is already gone. And we are, before we know it, you hear this every year when you get sort of Christmas time and New Year's, it's, ah, I can't believe where the year's gone. And everyone says it. We're all, we all say it. I know exactly where it's gone, Rhys.
00:46:55
Speaker
Mmm a clock it I don't think it's all I think many people could you know, and that's when you see it on a on a calendar like that One I was saying earlier about it being you know, you realize the brevity of life It's not as many weeks as you think it is. It's I'm looking at it now risk and it's it Yeah, so I'm approaching. Let's say halfway point now for me like with jet. Let's go to
00:47:22
Speaker
100 get my letter from the queen or the king whoever it is at that point stick that up on my fridge and then uh poodle off this mortal coil and yeah it it goes north for me being aware of time and my diary has changed it massively because i'm no longer got that it's slowed down for me
00:47:46
Speaker
And I'm very aware of time and go back to that discipline and practicing that, like practicing, allocating time in my day to say these meaningful things, be that exercise, time with family, meaningful work, you know, all those things, plan in my day, very nice, stick to them.
Time Management and Meaningful Engagement
00:48:08
Speaker
And I get a lot of contentment and enjoyment from doing those things. And for me, allocating that time,
00:48:16
Speaker
and just being in control of it, being in control of myself. So when I have apps, you know, there's no doubt in my mind that all of these things are going to get done. I will do all these things in my day. And it just gives me sense of fulfillment. I sleep very well. Yeah, everything I could squeeze the last drop out of that day.
00:48:41
Speaker
There's not like hustle culture or anything like that. I'm just like, I'm doing all of these, that stuff, my own well-being, family time, you know, reading a story with myself, bath time, exercise, call it, run, workout, jujitsu, work, course, speaking to people.
00:49:01
Speaker
And then offers come up as well, right off the back of it, just from being consistent and sticking to that time. But it is, it's in the moment when it comes down to it. And that's the battle that you have to overcome. It's that fight with, let's say, that emotional aspect of, I don't feel like doing it when it comes to it.
00:49:25
Speaker
I've said 14, I think you said this is, and I'm just like, okay, now you've got to do the editing. Now you've got to do like behind the scenes stuff. Now you've got to upload it to this. Now you've got to put in some tiles. Now you've got to develop like this. And it's all time you've got to ask, but, you know, allocate to that.
00:49:45
Speaker
And when it comes down to doing it, in that moment, your mind's like, avoid anything physically or emotionally painful. Is at the core of those decisions. Borders, you know, with work, certain aspects might, it's like balling, editing for you might be.
00:50:02
Speaker
a boring thing or whatever it may be. And you've got to just be able to push through that. When I say push through, do it with it. It's not making it go away. It's not doing it despite of conflict. Just like you've got to be all right with that emotion. Boredom is an emotion.
00:50:20
Speaker
People are like, I'm not going to do that work because it's boring. I'm going to watch Netflix or scroll on social media. It's pleasurable. If I think Freud coined it, like the pleasure pain principle, it's like the foundation of our decision-making model. I'm like, the majority of things good for you in this day and age are going to be painful. The work, the exercise, the uncomfortable conversations, you know, those things, emotionally or physically painful. I'm just like,
00:50:45
Speaker
I'm over this side, very much willing to engage in those things because I know they're going to serve me. These things will feel good at the time. Avoidance of this, they'll feel good at the time. But keep on doing that and watch as your quality of life diminishes.
00:51:02
Speaker
I've seen your posts about, you know, getting back time and planning your time and, you know, something I need to, I've acknowledged that I need to do it and something I need to, you know, I've started, you know, it was just this week, really, I've started to sort of actually really start rocking time out for stuff. As you said, distraction. Good for you. You know, distraction is the, is the loss of days, essentially, and it does compound.
00:51:23
Speaker
But I'm someone who tends to, I do often get distracted, but I'm always busy doing something. I'm someone who's, I like to be productive and I never can sit still. And I think it's this idea of when we're going back to that brevity of life and not fulfilling my purpose and my purpose, but not
00:51:40
Speaker
Not getting that sort of achieving my potential if I you know, I tend to attach myself worth to my output in regards to that So if I do not achieve what I want to do in a day or I don't achieve something in a given day Then I've got that, you know that rhetoric in the head going, you know, I'm wasting my potential I'm not utilizing my time properly and I think that's probably part of the reason why I really I find it personally I find it very difficult to sit and do nothing and relax like my Relaxation is not sitting down doing nothing. Yeah
00:52:10
Speaker
It kind of heightens my anxiety more than anything else. Yeah. So for me, let's say, times I'm doing nothing. The seven and a bit hours, I'll be asleep. That's not, you know, that's rest. Need, need that rest. 11, let's say, start my bedtime routine. I'll probably lights up at 11, 20 most nights and then get up at six, 20 for a run. But that's my,
00:52:41
Speaker
That's an act. I do that in sign. So be it like walk. It's a run. Walk if I'm injured. Swim whenever it may be. So something like that. That's my active meditation time. Doing that thing in silence for myself. 15 minutes every day.
00:53:01
Speaker
times that I'm not doing anything are so I feel that's that's times that I'm down you know like sort of taking that time for myself and then also some days if there's uh and the opportunity I'll have like 15 minutes now
00:53:20
Speaker
max 20, over 20, and then it becomes counterproductive because you get out of a deep sleep, and then you foot crawl your ear. You're waking up from that stage five REM sleep. So for me, I know what you're saying with regards to sitting and doing nothing.
00:53:37
Speaker
True. And that, I have to say, seat meditation is not something that I'm particularly good with. So I'll do walking or active meditation. So swimming, walking, running. Every day, 15 minutes, I will do that just to being silent. And that mindfulness or meditation, whatever people want to call it, I'll do that every single day. And doing nothing like 15 minutes now.
00:54:06
Speaker
in the early afternoon, I know will be beneficial, speaking to enough professors and doctors of sleep, just go, okay, and then I get out this nap at this time, doing research, due diligence. And so that's, for me, the times of day where I'm doing nothing per se. That's my nothing time.
00:54:31
Speaker
But I'm still doing something. I'm charging myself up for the second half of the day with that power. I'm still doing something when I'm going off that walk or run in the morning. There's a bit of a cup. There's a bit of early light exposure. So there's several things amalgamated into that 15 minutes of time in silence where I'm practicing mindfulness. So for me, that's my nothing time.
00:54:59
Speaker
But it's not nothing. It's me investing. And it pays back in spades, Rhys, from doing those things. It's doing stuff with intention, isn't it? Absolutely. Absolutely. I know this is going to be beneficial. And if there was one thing from all of the things that I do in my day, coal, beer, weight, be it jujitsu, beer, journey, coal, I would do that 15 minutes in silence. That's the single best thing.
00:55:26
Speaker
It's interesting because I did a half marathon recently and all of my training I did was headphones but there was a guest I hadn't previously and he spoke quite a lot and in depth about enjoying the rewards and things like that and for me
00:55:44
Speaker
he trains a lot, he experiments the way he trains with, you know, headphones, covering data, covering screens, just to see what, you know, what emotional states he can get into. So I did the whole thing without any headphones. And it was really interesting what I learned along the way. It was the conversations that I was having with myself at different points of the race, the presence I was feeling of just taking in the crowds. And I think if it would,
00:56:12
Speaker
you know, if you always run with headphones in, I think it is nice. And some people go, I can't imagine ever doing that. But I think I'd just try it and just listen to what is going on in your head. Absolutely. What's going on around you. And you'd be interested in what sort of stories it tells you, really. Absolutely. And I think that's why people are reluctant to do it, Rhys. I think they would struggle with those sort of thoughts, just being in silence. I know it's a big thing, because if you've got a lot of problems,
00:56:41
Speaker
going on in your life, those thoughts are going to be coming thick and fast. And then there's going to be probably some emotional charge to them. So it's going to be like, how thick? Don't know if you've seen the study where they put like, I can't remember how many guys into this cell with nothing in it for 20 minutes. The only thing that was inside it was a buzzer that if you pressed it, it would administer an electric shock.
00:57:07
Speaker
How early, what percentage of guys would, do you reckon, press the button, Reifs? Probably, I'm going to say it's flipped to the set, it's probably quite a few. Was it over 50% as well?
00:57:20
Speaker
It was over 50, it was like high 60s. Because people just couldn't stand to be alone, like sort of in silence with their thoughts. I'm like, wow. Some of the guys were like tapping it every minute, like just to stop them. That's a lot of pain. That's a lot of demons. There's a lot of demons. And that just shows like people, they'd rather
00:57:45
Speaker
listen to a podcast. Music is a popular one. But I'm just like, try this stuff. Go for a walk. Dog walking. If you've got a dog, take that out. If you go for a runt, perfect opportunities. Or shower. Shower is like accidental meditation. Just a few minutes in silence and just start processing those thoughts. They'll come in, they'll go, but
00:58:10
Speaker
Yeah, I put about it in my stories, my runs every morning. I'll just, I don't know, so sometimes I put the excuses that come up at 6.20, you know, in my head, all those thoughts that are going through and just like, oh, it's nice, warm, just that snows about five more minutes and they're coming through. And then some of the stories I will
00:58:38
Speaker
overlay like me running with the thoughts that are going on and the feelings. So I like that birds tweeting and dogs barking traffic and then a thought with that. But yeah, it's it's it's something to try.
00:58:54
Speaker
I think they've all put it as not looking at peace of mind, but looking at peace.
Concluding Thoughts on Mindfulness and Inner Peace
00:58:59
Speaker
He wants to get peace from mind. And I think he loses something related to sitting in a room and put it by yourself for 20 minutes. Yeah, I like that. Interesting. Smart guy. Interesting stuff. We'll wrap up here then.
00:59:11
Speaker
Yeah, thanks so much for coming on. Really appreciate you coming. For anyone who wants to find out a bit more about yourself and what you do, or perhaps follow your Instagrams, where would they go? Instagram would probably be where you get the best experience. And that's Andrew Shaw, the SC. And to
00:59:32
Speaker
Facebook and hit talk as well. I have to get my teenage step daughter to show me how to do it, but I'm on there. So, but yeah, Instagram is probably the full experience. Wonderful. Well, thank you so much. Really appreciate it. Welcome.
01:00:13
Speaker
you