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Episode 227: MONEY and Psychology, and how it effects the youth.
111 Plays11 days ago
Southampton – when a £100m price tag was stuck on Tyler Dibling earlier in the year, Greg was inspired to go and do some research, and the result is todays deep dive into psychology, money and what effect it has on players, especially the youth.
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Transcript
Introduction and Episode Overview
00:00:09
Global Sports Podcast Network
Hello and welcome back to the Daily Southampton, part of the Global Sports Podcast Network. My name is Greg Elliott and as always joined today by my good friend and wonderful co-host, Zach Anger Finch. How you doing mate?
00:00:21
Zak
Yeah, all good. It's a busy, fun weekend. We're back into the swing of things during for the week. weve we've We've knocked out our transfer episode. We've had a look at what's potentially coming in and what's going on.
00:00:34
Zak
So I'm looking forward to me sitting back for a change and listening to someone else talk.
Psychology in Football: An Introduction
00:00:39
Global Sports Podcast Network
That's it. Look, this this episode's been a long time in the making.
00:00:40
Zak
and
00:00:43
Global Sports Podcast Network
i've gone i've gone deep on some bits, and I feel like at this point, genuinely, i could talk about this subject matter for literally hours. So I've done my best to condense some thoughts, and and later on in the episode, it kind of specifically goes down two very distinct paths of a much wider topic that that is still an important topic.
00:01:09
Global Sports Podcast Network
and it's about psychology and football. Now I feel the need to caveat at the start of this episode that I am not a trained professional in psychology.
00:01:19
Global Sports Podcast Network
I you have no ah ah professional training whatsoever. I watch lots and lots of true crime psychological analysis. That doesn't qualify me for anything.
00:01:29
Global Sports Podcast Network
But I have gone in and found some research papers and some expert opinions and researched this episode to to sort of get to the point I'm at.
Impact of Salaries on Young Players
00:01:43
Global Sports Podcast Network
So...
00:01:44
Global Sports Podcast Network
With that caveat aside, let's just get straight into it.
00:01:47
Zak
called mate.
00:01:48
Global Sports Podcast Network
a Earlier in the season, which is what triggered this this sort of thought path and this deep dive, we saw a price tag put on Tyler Dibbling for £100 million. pounds And what it got me thinking is specifically about the money in football, which we talk about a lot on the show anyway, but more specifically, what kind of psychological impact the money on football would have on players, specifically on young players as well.
00:02:11
Global Sports Podcast Network
Now... Obviously, this past season, we had a horrible time, and there has been a whole question mark over the whole season of mentality and fortitude of our team on the pitch.
00:02:23
Global Sports Podcast Network
but But really, it has to go deeper than that, right? so we talked on the podcast this week about the guarantee of the thousands of pounds a week of wages, whether and how that would motivate you.
00:02:38
Global Sports Podcast Network
But when you're getting that money at a young age... without the potential of the struggle before. It's hard to see whether it be seen as a motivation or something that could develop things such as imposter syndrome.
00:02:54
Global Sports Podcast Network
so and And that's sort of the path I've got to for this psychological analysis.
00:03:01
Zak
so So on that question, one one question I'd like to ask you, Greg, what was the the biggest pay rise that you've ever had? Like, obviously not not not talking about, but like singular pay rise that you've ever had in your life.
Personal Stories and Parallels
00:03:12
Zak
And do you remember it?
00:03:14
Global Sports Podcast Network
I don't know if it was like a significant pay rise, but I remember when I first moved to an office job from working in bookies and in retail, that the change in the quantity of pay compared to the difficulty of the work I was doing was like substantially noticeable.
00:03:35
Zak
Yeah. And that's, that's, that's, that's an interesting part. And also like from a personal perspective, I think my biggest bump in ever in one go ever, during a really traumatic time, but it was like 7,000 pound and it like blew my mind because I was unable to sort of process that.
00:03:51
Zak
Uh, and, and for a while, you know, started living it up and eventually it just became part of the way that I exist. But I can remember that itself, having a psychological impact, but that's because I'd had a significantly large periods of struggle beforehand, right? Everything was really, really gradual, really, really gradual, really, really gradual. And you kind of, so you notice those big bumps. And I think it's interesting because that, what you're pointing out already about the fact that like, if you don't ever have that. If you start, you start at your earning,
00:04:22
Zak
50,000 pound a week. That's going to be your baseline. It's all relative, right? But so yeah, anyway, crack on. I just thought that was an interesting side plot.
00:04:29
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah, no, exactly. And that's exactly it, right? and And that is an important question. And so that's what led to this wider
Physicality vs. Mentality in Football
00:04:35
Global Sports Podcast Network
thought for me. And we know that in the last decade or so, probably even more than that, so 15, 20 years,
00:04:41
Global Sports Podcast Network
our understanding of the physicality of sports science and our, the other parts that feed into the physical side of, you know, especially football has improved so much.
00:04:53
Global Sports Podcast Network
and so far, for every detail is covered in like substantial detail, like, what nutrients you need in pre-workout, and when you should take this protein and this sugar for this energy boost, what exercises you need to do to activate certain muscles and what but things don't help, whether you need to be loose or rigid and you know what supplements, routines, exercises. It's all, and everyone you know has their own theories on that as well, but it's still incredibly deeply studied and understood.
00:05:27
Global Sports Podcast Network
And what's less studied and understood is the importance of mentality and psychology in football. It's starting to change and, you know, so a focus is being drawn to it as we sort of hit the the limit on the physical side of things. But it's not a problem that's exclusive to football, right? Because mental health amongst men specifically in in sort of regards to this episode and and the sport we're talking about, the football, generally speaking, the sort of foot men that are attracted to watching football, mental health is a really taboo subject.
00:06:07
Global Sports Podcast Network
So approaching it at any level is is more difficult. But it's it's important. Even more important, maybe, than some of the physical aspects they look at.
00:06:19
Global Sports Podcast Network
Like, we've all, I'm sure, been in positions where... You're just not mentally there. Even though you know you're capable of doing a task, your mind won't follow through with the action.
00:06:29
Global Sports Podcast Network
And when you come to especially the fast-paced and physically challenging environment of Premier League or Championship football match, even a split second in decision-making is the sort of fine margin that's going to make a difference, which is why it's baffling that it it has taken such a backseat.
Early Exposure to Money
00:06:48
Global Sports Podcast Network
Some clubs have brought in specialists, in psychology help with this, but specifically specifically ah wanted to to look to today less at that and more at the the money side that we've been talking about.
00:07:03
Global Sports Podcast Network
So, I'm going to get into young footballers and academies. Uh, but first I'm going to pause for a quick break, but how you feeling so far, Zach? Like,
00:07:15
Zak
Yeah, though no, 100%.
00:07:15
Global Sports Podcast Network
I'm touching on the right points.
00:07:18
Zak
Like, of as you said, you're about to get onto the academies. And I know that there's been some really good documentaries that have knocked around the last couple of years where they've sort of, I think it's one that's literally just called like Life After Football, but are starting to examine sort of like the psychological impact it has on players that don't make it.
00:07:34
Zak
and how that's a huge thing and how they need the support.
00:07:34
Global Sports Podcast Network
Hmm.
00:07:37
Zak
And then you've got examples of players after their career where a lot of them went bankrupt.
00:07:41
Global Sports Podcast Network
Hmm.
00:07:42
Zak
Like even somebody that, um you know, I was thinking of David James. I don't know why, but so I remember, you know, obviously him being being and a Portsmouth player, I still remember him there being like an article that he had to sell off via auction, like a bunch of his stuff, including like FA Cup medals and stuff like that, to be able to just like pay to
Documentaries on Non-Successful Players
00:08:00
Zak
live.
00:08:01
Zak
And obviously he's been able to recover since then and and sort of now has a bit of a speaking career in that. But it's very, yeah it's it's very sort of interesting because people will talk about what happens if after football, what happens if, you know, with issues sort of, if you don't make it into football, but what about if you do make it to football and you do make that money,
00:08:24
Zak
And then, you know, you've got, for example, look at sort of the recent controversy around someone like Paul Pogba and, you know, or even sillier things, right? Like Dele Alli is ah ah somebody that we know a lot about his mental health and he's very very open about it.
00:08:38
Zak
But even even he was being criticized a lot about the way he dressed and his involvement in fashion. And even even smaller things like Anthony Gordon, like, why is he dressed like that? Why is he spending his money on this kind of thing? And And it's like, we don't really talk about maybe like we talk, seem to talk about it, the impact of it everywhere other than on current playing.
00:08:56
Global Sports Podcast Network
yeah
00:08:58
Zak
So yeah, I think you're, you're right.
00:08:58
Global Sports Podcast Network
And you know what, as we go on through this, I've got lots of other points that get close to that.
00:08:59
Zak
It's going to be.
00:09:03
Global Sports Podcast Network
But actually, one whole point that I don't even touch on in the rest of this episode is the the additional effects like social media and how outwardly presenting to yourself to the world can be damaging to that.
00:09:15
Global Sports Podcast Network
Like this episode just focuses purely on some of the impact the money will have. And, you know, maybe there's a whole wider discourse to be had about all of the other stuff as well, for sure.
Starting in Football Academies
00:09:25
Global Sports Podcast Network
But that leads us nicely into our first break, a message from our partners at Bionique.
00:10:07
Global Sports Podcast Network
Okay, and we are back. So yeah, I was going to move next on to how young it is that the players really start.
00:10:19
Global Sports Podcast Network
So developing football is starting younger and younger. Some signing development contracts as young as thirteen I know that my son plays with a youngster who already plays with the Saints Academy, and he is at an under-8 level.
00:10:37
Global Sports Podcast Network
So like the how young it starts is crazy. and And like i was saying at the start, you have to question what impact impact to mentality the prospect, even, of being around that amount of money must have. Yeah.
00:10:58
Global Sports Podcast Network
But like Zach says, that's not just on those who make it, those that don't. you know Our education system is far from perfect.
00:11:07
Global Sports Podcast Network
But if you think about having the potential to sign a contract for tens of thousands of pounds a week, that is probably going to take your focus away from...
00:11:20
Global Sports Podcast Network
the education that is so important at such a young age. And so with the prospect of those riches and glory, you might neglect that educational path, which, which is a problem because even if you do go on to succeed and become a footballer, that's no guarantee of longevity and, and making that, and that in itself is, is a problem.
Football as Stressor and Mental Health Aid
00:11:46
Global Sports Podcast Network
wanted to move on quickly to how detrimental the money side of it can be, because outside of actively playing football for a profession, sports and football are sort of actively considered positive things for mental health, right? Like, I know i play football a couple of times a week.
00:12:09
Global Sports Podcast Network
And that is as much for my mental health as it is for fitness, because getting out on the football pitch just brings back that clarity. It's important, I think I know, Zach, that you find the gym very therapeutic and your exercise to help, right?
00:12:24
Global Sports Podcast Network
all.
00:12:25
Zak
Yeah, for sure. don Don't get me wrong. like it's not it's If I went every day, I would probably be a lot more of a healthier man, but I do often go for for sort of runs and stuff and go to the gym when yeah and I'm just trying to figure out what's going on in my life, right?
00:12:39
Zak
it's it's it's so It's also that and long eight-hour gaming sessions, which undo all of the work I do at the gym. Yeah.
00:12:45
Global Sports Podcast Network
yeah but but So i wanted to touch on that as as one sort of aside, because there's a study that I read. I read most of the paper. It was greatly interesting.
00:12:59
Global Sports Podcast Network
Very long. It was called all my problems go away for 90 minutes. How football and psychotherapy improves young men's mental health. Uh, it was by Amy McGrain from the department of psychology at Maynooth university in Kildare, uh, coauthored by Neve bird, Chelsea Arton, and Catriona O'Sullivan.
00:13:19
Global Sports Podcast Network
And it specifically touched on a study, an eight week program specifically focusing on males, 19 25, And effectively, they used the football that they brought them into play as an entry point and like an in to lead into the psychotherapy sessions.
00:13:42
Global Sports Podcast Network
And all the participants in the trial reported an improvement on their mental health. And so it's like breaking down the barriers, right? And just the physical exercise itself is the improvement.
00:13:54
Global Sports Podcast Network
And so with that being the case when it's not for your living, it's fascinating how different it can be from the perspective once you bring money into the mix and it becomes much more complicated.
00:14:08
Global Sports Podcast Network
And it can bring you into situations and issues that are, you know, quite literally traumatic. We use trauma to describe how we feel about last season earlier in the week.
00:14:22
Global Sports Podcast Network
And that's true because trauma is a subjective feeling of how you're feeling.
Trauma of Deselection from Academies
00:14:27
Global Sports Podcast Network
But also what would be traumatic is deselection from the academies, right? And this is what you were talking about when alluding to.
00:14:35
Global Sports Podcast Network
and found this quote from a research paper, the source of which i'll ah I'll add in the description. Deselection is reported to create heterogeneous reactions within youth elite football players.
00:14:48
Global Sports Podcast Network
with some players reporting negative mental health effects, including psychological distress, anxiety, depression, humiliation, even self-worth issues and suicide.
00:15:00
Global Sports Podcast Network
Research found when measuring psychological distress post-academy deselection, 55% of athletes suffered from psychological trauma, within the first 21 days of being released, supporting these negative associations with it.
00:15:16
Global Sports Podcast Network
And that that's the other side of the coin, right? That's the huge negative of not making it when you're being bigged up to the point and led with this foot in the door.
00:15:27
Global Sports Podcast Network
And it's... it's It's fascinating that both sides, the success and the unsuccess of these points in the academy can both lead to such critical impacts in such a negative way.
00:15:39
Zak
Because you you could enjoy something. i think back to a colleague that me and you had a couple of years ago, Greg. You might not remember him, but you might do. it and i'm not going to name him because that's not fair. But one the things he always told me was like the reason that he got a job in networking and when I say networking, I don't mean hanging out, sort of social networking. I i mean like nuts and bolts IT t networking was because he'd once worked in the music industry and that was what he wanted to do. He absolutely adored music and it made him hate music.
00:16:07
Zak
And he wanted to go back to remember enjoying music. So picked the job that in his mind, he found the most boring but could do. because if he ever had negative feelings about it, he wouldn't care.
00:16:20
Zak
And then got to re reignite his passion for music. And I had a ah ah similar situation in the fact that during the time that I worked for for Game a couple of years ago, it was really cool to work with video games and be able to like open them up and put them out and work with these big launches and get all of the freebies.
00:16:24
Global Sports Podcast Network
It's just
00:16:37
Zak
But it meant that the... the the what I was looking forward to, you know, the the games that i was looking forward to would also cause me ah huge amount of stress because I know of how much pressure there was on make sure that the launch goes well and that we've got, it's going to be targets around what to sell. So, you know, rather than just enjoying Skyrim coming out, had to work for midnight launch and spend the entire day worrying about trying to get people to buy X and Y and c And so it's, and I imagine that can be sort of for professional players, you know, obviously on a much bigger scale, but like if you're about to play the Champions League final, right?
00:17:09
Zak
and you've got all of the stress and then, you know, if you win, it's the the the complete height of the emotions, but if you lose, and also there's the conversation of like, we we always treat all players like they should be privileged to be in the position they're in.
00:17:21
Zak
They should be really happy to be in the position they're in.
00:17:21
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:17:23
Zak
And like, that's true, but then there will be days where people turn up and it is just their job and they might hate their job for the day. And then they will feel, and I think with the, what you're talking about with the money and the impact and all this kind of stuff, like you would feel immense guilt for feeling that way, even though, you know, you're just having an off day or if you get to a point you're doing that because it's your job.
00:17:41
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah. Yeah.
00:17:45
Zak
And it's like all the criticism for anyone going to Saudi Arabia for the money. And like we're critics ourselves, right? But at the same time, for a lot of, for some players, you know, might blow people's minds to know they're not in it for the love of football.
00:17:58
Zak
They're in it because it's a really high, well-paying job and they're good at being an athlete. And yet we just want to assume that every single one of them are in it for the love of the game, because that's how the feelings we put onto them.
00:18:09
Zak
I'm sure you've got a bunch of stuff, but I just thought like, it's interesting the comparisons. I think that, you know, as you said, that for a lot of people going out and playing football makes them feel better. And there's studies to back that.
00:18:21
Zak
But if it is your job with all of the money and the pressure, it's not going to be that way. And that's the same if you're a musician. For some people, you know, music's a lovely escape. But for others, if you're performing in it, and all of a sudden, after a while, you might decide that you don't like it anymore and quit out of it.
00:18:37
Zak
Daniel Osvaldo, Greg, left football because he hated football, became a musician. Do you remember that? Like...
00:18:43
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah, exactly.
00:18:44
Zak
yeah like
00:18:45
Global Sports Podcast Network
Right? like
00:18:46
Zak
so So, yeah, I think i think all all of it's all of it is fascinating and very interesting. And I think when it comes to the way humans are as people, is that I think, yeah, if you ever, if you change your relationship with something to where you are doing it for money, i think that that is always going to have an impact.
00:19:05
Zak
But I think the thing that worries me is the severe level of psychological impact you're pointing out, like 55% having such level of trauma that, you know, they're, there they're feeling, you know, really, really bad thoughts is just awful.
00:19:20
Zak
So yeah, I apologize for my tangent there, but I just think it again, like it's, it's, it's because I can, i can empathize in a way, not in the same way as earning like 10,000 pound a week or whatever, but like I once worked in an area that I have a lot of passion about and there were times that suck the passion out of me.
00:19:20
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah, it is crazy.
00:19:25
Global Sports Podcast Network
but
00:19:34
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:19:42
Global Sports Podcast Network
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00:19:53
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00:20:09
Global Sports Podcast Network
Okay, so, uh, quite a lot to touch on in the the last part here, but, I touched on the negatives of not being selected, but really what I wanted to focus on were some of the negatives that can still come along with being
Pressures of Hefty Price Tags
00:20:23
Global Sports Podcast Network
selected.
00:20:24
Global Sports Podcast Network
right And now we saw, specifically with the case that triggered this thought path, we saw almost immediately after the price tag was put on Tyler Dibbling, I think it's reasonable to say he had a drop in form.
00:20:37
Global Sports Podcast Network
Now... I'm sure that there are a hundred different factors that have played into that, right? Because it's not like the rest of the season, the entire team was on form either. But I think that at least a contributing factor was probably that pressure.
00:20:56
Global Sports Podcast Network
And what you talked to about potentially the passion being sucked away or to a less extreme part, this this sort of imposter syndrome of feeling privileged. But also...
00:21:08
Global Sports Podcast Network
When you're put in that position at such a young age, it sets you up for different issues as well. So there are a couple of examples I've got. Starting, you you mentioned him earlier, but Dele Alli.
00:21:22
Global Sports Podcast Network
right And he this is a player that came through an academy and got these professional contracts and struggled, like openly struggled with his mental health and getting into a position. And on top of that, seemed to make these decisions that kind of went down the wrong paths and you know seemed to surround himself potentially with people that weren't helping that situation.
00:21:48
Global Sports Podcast Network
And that is, you know, one of the main trappings, right, of this, you put yourself in a position at such a young age where you're making that much money and it becomes such an important, like, you know, when you're 18, 19, that is when you make mistakes. And if suddenly you've got thousands of pounds to burn or to sort of put yourself in these positions, things going to happen. The next example is, um, is,
00:22:14
Global Sports Podcast Network
yeah it's an even more controversial ex example, and it's Mason Greenwood, right? Now, it is it's controversial, and sure, you know he was not found guilty in a court of law.
00:22:26
Global Sports Podcast Network
Does that mean that he hasn't put himself in a position where he has surrounded himself with this kind of toxic echo chamber, right? to get You don't get yourself in that position because you're fundamentally a bad person necessarily, right?
00:22:47
Global Sports Podcast Network
Like, this is product of the environment you've surrounded yourself in. And, you know, you you talk about coming up through a team like Man United, where there are so many... pressure points and egos surrounding you, is it really any surprise that some of those negative traits are going to rub off on a young player who's making such a lot of money at such a young age to sort of fall into those traps and become such a problem?
00:23:16
Global Sports Podcast Network
And, you know, I'm not in any way trying to excuse or condone anything that Mason Greenwood has or hasn't done. I'm just saying that we shouldn't be surprised that these traps exist because of the position that is being
Addiction to Money
00:23:30
Global Sports Podcast Network
put in. They are being put into by such vast amounts of money at such a young age with so little support around what to do with that. Right.
00:23:40
Global Sports Podcast Network
That's the other thing because.
00:23:43
Zak
Well, I've heard stories before of of people I've known that have worked at the club, and not just here and elsewhere, sort of like player liaison officers, right? They're kind of supposed to be supporting players, but realistically, but by supporting, it's like they will call you up at four in the morning and want a case of vodka delivered, so you'll go and do that.
00:24:01
Zak
And that is supporting them.
00:24:01
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:24:03
Zak
But then, you know, there's going to be their...
00:24:03
Global Sports Podcast Network
But that's not support. It's enablement.
00:24:05
Zak
Yeah, but this this is my point, is it's crude support, but it's it's not.
00:24:06
Global Sports Podcast Network
That's even worse. Yeah.
00:24:11
Zak
And that is ah that that is a huge problem. And, you know, in some cases it's... depending on which way you're psychologically inclined. you know, you you could use things for coping mechanisms.
00:24:21
Zak
There can be significantly, there can be a lot of factors, but it's like, for example, when somebody drinks alcohol, one person can drink cow alcohol and have a beer and stop.
00:24:25
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:24:30
Zak
Another person might drink alcohol alcohol, have one beer, then three, then four, then five, and seven then seven. Then every time they want more and more and more. There can be some people that just go and binge drink on a weekend once a year and never drink again for the rest of the year.
00:24:43
Zak
All of these people have different relationships with alcohol. There are simple reasons why and not simple reasons why, right? Now, if we're pretending that money isn't a drug, that's that's a lie.
00:24:54
Zak
Money itself is a drug that I think that people become addicted to and spending it and spending it in different ways and flashing it around and being able to spread it around. All of these things are, you're right.
00:25:06
Zak
going to paint some sort of target on your back. And if you do not have the support networks, if you do not have the savvy, if you do not have the ability to climb down from some of these extreme ladders, you will get yourself into positions that are bad.
00:25:21
Zak
And like, I'm not, again, also not also not condoning anything that e anyone has done. but like it's a pattern of behavior that's existed since the thought of time, is that you give a lot of people money, or you give ah ah you give us you give people, inexperienced people, or experienced people with money,
00:25:29
Global Sports Podcast Network
yeah
00:25:37
Zak
you don't know what they're going to do with it. They might go and build, you know, they might go build an aid camp in and another country, or they might buy a Lamborghini and crush it within five minutes. That, you know, this is the thing.
00:25:48
Zak
What do we expect when we handle all this money?
Financial Mismanagement Risks
00:25:51
Zak
well so what's the alternative? Do you, do you not give them that amount of money when you know that then people above them are going to be earning that money? It's, it'll be interesting to hear.
00:25:58
Global Sports Podcast Network
It's such a tricky... is It's difficult, right? It's tricky.
00:26:01
Zak
It's a horrible, difficult situation.
00:26:02
Global Sports Podcast Network
and And the thing is, like it's it's a self-fulfilling prophecy as well, because you see you know you see this stereotype that footballers are dumb, and this is in itself going to be worsened if you neglect your educational path because of the promise of this money, and then get to a position where there's money, and suddenly come on and become a footballer and just have no nothing to fall back on, no...
00:26:09
Zak
Thanks.
00:26:26
Global Sports Podcast Network
You know, and then you come out at the other end and, you know, we have seen ah ah vast array of professionals who, you know, go on to maybe not have such great opinions, right?
00:26:42
Global Sports Podcast Network
One way or another.
00:26:42
Zak
but not not even that, mate. it's It's more of a, like we've we've discussed this before, i think there was even a documentary me and you talked about where, you know, if you are not You know, you don't need to be. There are people I know who are tradesmen that have significantly more common sense than anyone I went to university with, right?
00:27:01
Zak
But if you are in this echo chamber you are in this environment and you do not have the right set of people around you to help you and teach you and educate you, not just in like not just in sort of in a school-type environment, just in the way of the world,
00:27:15
Zak
I guess you will potentially leave this career. You're right. And some people have had extremely controversial opinions or alternatively start believing certain things because they haven't had that background or don't have that knowledge base or don't have those people that they've interacted with their life because, you know, a lot of the people they've interacted with are going to be inside these sort of footballing echo chambers.
00:27:36
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah, 100%. and And look, it's it's not just a football problem, right?
00:27:38
Zak
And if,
00:27:42
Global Sports Podcast Network
It's just a mental health as a whole problem across the you know across the board.
00:27:49
Zak
but But the the money the money is and the money has been obvious in not just football.
00:27:49
Global Sports Podcast Network
It's still...
00:27:52
Zak
You know, you look at NFL is another example, right? Like, my word, like they go from they go from literally being like a scholarship at a college to all of a sudden, like, by the way, here's 250 million pounds for the year.
00:28:05
Zak
Also, so here's your house that we've bought for you. And then how do you expect, like, I remember being 18. If someone gave me that much money in the space of sort of overnight, it would fry my brain completely.
00:28:16
Zak
And now, ah now, ah i know this is terrible.
00:28:19
Global Sports Podcast Network
I genuinely think that I would do something stupid enough at that point that I would be dead.
00:28:23
Zak
Well, yeah, but it's like that guy, the and i can't remember the name of the guy, you might remember, Greg, but the NFL person that um dad was an NFL player. He was expected to be like a first round pick. He literally like built a wing of his house to be there for draft day and then didn't get drafted for like two to three days.
00:28:39
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:28:39
Zak
and And then there was like a live stream where people getting mad and angry and sort of like, and like people already saying that he's got an ego before he goes in. ah ah Yeah, because he's he's had that built around from his dad who probably because that was his job previously, hasn't had the right level of influence to make someone a balanced person. But what makes you a balanced person? You can have any job. I just think that giving anyone, but especially young people, such a significantly large amount of money very early on is a problem.
00:29:06
Zak
But the issue is, is that if they, if somebody says we're not going to do this, we're going to drip feed you the money so you can like, and help you educate you, you know, say, say that we did that our academy as a solution to that problem.
00:29:07
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:29:15
Global Sports Podcast Network
you just You just turn that down and go somewhere where they will give you the money.
00:29:18
Zak
There we go! Because there will always be a club that's willing to go, well, I'll take it because you're too much of a talent to turn down.
00:29:19
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah. Yeah.
Revenue Share and Financial Responsibility
00:29:25
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:29:25
Zak
And then you end up in the position that, you know, you try to be responsible unless everybody agrees to suddenly rein the money in in football. And again, it then it gets to a point where it's not fair. If the footballers themselves are not seeing the share of the money that the from advertising and broadcasting,
00:29:42
Zak
you know, it's it's not fair but because they should be expected to earn, like if they're the ones doing the job and they are they are producing that much revenue, they should see a significant chunk of that revenue, right?
00:29:45
Global Sports Podcast Network
yeah.
00:29:54
Global Sports Podcast Network
yeah
00:29:54
Zak
That's not certainly fair, but it's like, how do you how do you deal with this in general? And it's like, you know, you look at how sort of, I guess, richer families work out as well, right? Like if you've got like dynasties and things like that, how they deal with their kids and, you know, up actually, there you Greg, perfect example. David Beckham's kids.
00:30:12
Global Sports Podcast Network
yeah
00:30:13
Zak
One of them went on to do football for a long time, joined academies, this, the other. One of them was what, like a chef? A YouTube chef?
00:30:19
Global Sports Podcast Network
I actually take but actually think, mate, that that's the same one. but He gave up on football and went on to be a chef because that was his passion.
00:30:26
Zak
There you go. And and ah but but that's like growing up in the dynasty of money and an expectation where you're famous from day one has as much of an effect.
00:30:27
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:30:32
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:30:35
Global Sports Podcast Network
Look, it's...
00:30:36
Zak
But anyway, I'm getting you well off topic, so I'll let you get the control of the game.
00:30:40
Global Sports Podcast Network
That's it. It brings me nicely to my conclusion, mate, because my last point is what can we do? And my unfortunate conclusion is probably nothing other than just continue to talk about it and hope that by talking about it and bringing it out into the world, that that can also lead to be the cure.
Mental Health Discussions in Football
00:31:02
Global Sports Podcast Network
You know, obviously money is one of the many evils that are imparted on footballers.
00:31:09
Global Sports Podcast Network
There are so many other... possible damaging impacts that I haven't even got time to touch on today. you know We haven't even talked about social media or anything like that, or even just normal media and you know the attention that comes with it.
00:31:26
Global Sports Podcast Network
But what we can do is talk about psychology, talk about mental health, get it out there, talk about it, and just show that it can be talked about.
00:31:39
Global Sports Podcast Network
you know
00:31:40
Zak
Was it Norwich that did that really good campaign?
00:31:40
Global Sports Podcast Network
and to remember. Yeah, fantastic. that That fantastic video about, you know, it's never the person you expect.
00:31:44
Zak
Absolutely one fantastic campaign. The guy constantly checking in on his friend and you assumed it was the guy that was looking sad every week and it turned out to be the guy that looked the most happy, right?
00:31:54
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:31:55
Zak
Yeah, you're right.
00:31:57
Global Sports Podcast Network
Exactly. So, you know, it can only get better if we talk about it and destigmatize it. And remember that it is a position of privilege specifically to play football and earn a lot of money, but that doesn't mean that it's not okay to not feel okay.
00:32:14
Global Sports Podcast Network
Like it can be, it can be both. It can be a position of privilege and not feel right at that moment. And to talk about that and get that help and that support and that advice, that's the important bit.
00:32:25
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:32:26
Zak
I just genuinely think every club should have financial advisors for young people and the ability to access that information.
00:32:32
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:32:36
Zak
Not everybody's going to take them up on the offer, right? There are going to be people, like there always are in life, who are going to rebel against the rules and do what they want and be a Mario Balotelli and blow up like toilets for fireworks or whatever, right? that That's just going to happen.
00:32:50
Zak
But if there are people that need that guidance and need that support, I think it should be available. And I think at the very least, we can't do that.
00:32:56
Global Sports Podcast Network
Not just financial guidance either, right? like There should be... like Sports therapy and sports psychology is one thing, but also, these these are humans. they should They should have an outlet available to them that is not specifically designed to drive them to be less human and more super-athlete.
00:33:16
Zak
What?
00:33:19
Zak
Will still literally said it, right? He said that this is as important that I want the players to be happy both inside the club and outside the club.
Advocacy for Support Systems
00:33:26
Zak
They're going to have to the people outside of the club and they need to make sure that they're happy with them as well.
00:33:30
Zak
And like that was the first time I've really seen in a long time many managers sort of mention, unless you end up with sort of, you know, depending, unless really bad things happen a lot of the time,
00:33:41
Zak
that kind of part of their lives is ignored. So it's really nice that we're seeing that management are starting to understand and take seriously these kinds of things and the impacts that they have, right?
00:33:52
Zak
And so hopefully, rather than it being sort of those stories that you hear where somebody goes out depressed for two years and then they come back and then they score a hat trick and it's a wonderful story, they don't end up in a situation where they're not playing for two years because their mental health has got to a point deteriorated where they're cracked for like two years, right?
00:34:09
Zak
It should be able to be something that's dealt with.
00:34:09
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:34:11
Zak
Either way, I said, I know I interject a lot. I apologize. It's just your hammers person, Greg, but it's because it's genuinely fascinating. I think it's excellently well-researched. You're pulling out professors of psychology and doctors and studies.
00:34:26
Global Sports Podcast Network
yeah
00:34:26
Zak
It's me-level research, mate. proud you. But yeah, it's fascinating.
00:34:29
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:34:30
Zak
And I think it's, as you said, like all you've got to do is hope that it's going to get better and try your best to be part of that change.
00:34:32
Global Sports Podcast Network
That's it.
00:34:35
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:34:37
Zak
What else can you do?
00:34:37
Global Sports Podcast Network
100%. And look, it's definitely a rabbit hole I've been down. And like I said, i could I feel like at this point, I could genuinely ramble on and talk about this and all of the other contributing factors for for hours. And you know, there's probably more episodes down the line where some of those things happen.
00:34:56
Global Sports Podcast Network
But I think what I really took most from everything is that Sure, it's a problem that is like on loudspeaker in football. right like It's a huge, huge amplification of it in that chamber of football.
00:35:16
Global Sports Podcast Network
But it's still a problem as a whole across all of society.
Conclusion and Call for Mental Well-being
00:35:20
Global Sports Podcast Network
And so look after your mental health. Look after yourself. If you need help, ask someone. No one.
00:35:27
Global Sports Podcast Network
very few people would judge you for reaching out for help. that's the important takeaway for me is how important that is.
00:35:36
Zak
great
00:35:37
Global Sports Podcast Network
Well, look, that is all we've got time for today. i hope that you enjoyed that deep dive. We'll be back tomorrow as we start looking towards the friendlies that are coming up at the weekend.
00:35:49
Global Sports Podcast Network
Until then, thank you very much for listening. Thank you, john Zach, for joining me. And we'll see you next time.
00:35:54
Zak
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