Episode Introduction: Waterbending, Necromancy, and Demon Bunnies
00:00:01
Speaker
On another exciting episode of the Animation Delivery Podcast, we got waterbending, we got necromancy, and we got demon bunnies! We're talking about Jujutsu Kaisen Season 2, Episode 11, seance. Right after these ads, we have no control over. Sing along if you know the words. One, two, three, it's time for animation deliberation! A conversation and a celebration of our favorite action animated series, yeah!
Meet the Hosts: Zara Lee and Andrew Rogers
00:00:28
Speaker
Yeah, welcome back to another episode of Animation Deliberation, the podcast where we take action animation and cartoon seriously, but not too seriously. We're your host, I'm Zara Lee. And I am Andrew Rogers. And just like the swarm of bunnies, we have a swarm of excitement for this episode this week. The action is back, our prime characters are back.
00:00:44
Speaker
competent storytelling is back and we're excited about all of it. How are you feeling about today's episode? I I'm
Storytelling and Fight Sequences in Jujutsu Kaisen
00:00:51
Speaker
so so taken aback. Wonderful episode. We do have like a lot of things to say about it. And I do think it was a great example of
00:01:01
Speaker
kind of what we've complained about about the season, but also realized that like last episode was build. This episode was great fight. I'm sure next episode is going to be more build. Like we're doing that back and forth. So it was nice to see that come true. But all
Monty Python Comparison: Demon Bunny Humor
00:01:15
Speaker
that I have in my head, as you've been talking about demon bunnies is just the rabbit from a Monty Python's holy grail. I can't remember what they call it, but it's a whole holy hand grenade scene with that demon rabbit. And that's all that's running through my head right this moment.
00:01:30
Speaker
I haven't seen the movie in so long. I actually don't even know what you're talking about. Oh, it's the Holy Hand Grenade scene. All right, we're gonna have to find that. Yes.
Engaging the Audience: Sharing Comedy on Instagram
00:01:38
Speaker
For the show. For the show. Obviously for the show. For any of you out there who don't know what I'm talking about.
00:01:44
Speaker
one of the most tremendous pieces of comedy to ever come out of Britain. Let's throw it up on the Instagram later. Yeah, so just that scene with the- Put it up on the story. Perfect. Did you see what I posted up today that had me chuckling this morning? Uh-uh. I put on our story, someone took the fight scene with Gojo and Ghetto from the first part of the season where they're like jumping through the building and like falling through the sky fighting the ninjas and stuff. They put that and overlaid it with It's Rain and Men.
00:02:14
Speaker
And it fits so perfectly well to see them flying through the air to that song. Zuair is about to get us copyright struck while he watches it live on the air. We get 30 seconds. That was like three. Oh, 30 seconds. We can use that at some point. I thought it was like 10 seconds.
00:02:36
Speaker
I'm sure it is now. The last I heard it was like 30 seconds, so that was a while ago, so I just kind of stuck with it. But I haven't had suit yet, so. Hey me. We like not getting sued. Not getting sued is a very important part of our show structure, in case you were wondering, listener.
Liquid IV Promotion: Hydration and Health Benefits
00:02:50
Speaker
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00:03:45
Speaker
flu season is back. I have a friend who got double vaxxed and they are dying right now from getting the COVID booster and the flu. They're just worse for wear. So I told them drink some liquid IV, get those electrolytes in you, you're gonna want to prep for it. And also just, you know, make sure you don't get sick. But if you do, you got that vitamin C, you got those boosters. We don't want you feeling bad. And I honestly, I don't think you want to feeling bad either.
00:04:11
Speaker
So I feel like this is a great way to stay healthy. Knock on wood, both myself and Zuhair have managed to stay healthy. We're gonna just attribute it to liquid IV. Hopefully that is part of our secret sauce at this point. And like I said, good for you, but also has always good for the world and good for the environment.
00:04:28
Speaker
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00:04:54
Speaker
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00:05:23
Speaker
And as always, thank you for supporting the brands that support animation deliberation.
Jujutsu Kaisen Plot and Character Dynamics
00:05:29
Speaker
And without further ado, let's get into this episode, because it was a lot to handle. And you know, I handled it with my liquid IV, but I feel like we have a lot to talk about. So I just want to kind of dive in, go through the synopsis so we can hit all of it.
00:05:44
Speaker
Yeah, I'm talking about a word I struggled to say. I read that like 20 times. Like, is it seance? Is it seance? I think seance is a word. We'll go seance. And I am going to... It's accepted in Japanese, so I had no idea how to pronounce it when I listened to it in the episode. Okay, hang on. I'm going to pause here. I know I would want to get into this. Do you not know what a seance is? It's like one of those words that I've heard, but if you tell me to define it, I have no idea.
00:06:08
Speaker
So think of the scene in every sort of spooky movie where they're holding hands around a table and they're being like, oh, spirits from beyond, come and communicate with us. That's a seance. That's the general Western representation of what a seance is. But it's usually some sort of communing with spirits that actually happens. If we could flash in the more you know rainbow above my head, that'd be great, because I feel like that was a pretty good definition, until someone calls me out.
00:06:36
Speaker
I do have the rainbow on my head. Yeah, I could be very wrong, but I'm like 99% sure. I mean, I was sitting with a scene that they use that word. And so yes, there you go. That's a very perfect thing. And that scene went something like this. UG Megumi and you know, investigate the barrier preventing sorcerers from entering and due to its strength deduced the veils are being protected somewhere out in the open.
00:07:00
Speaker
which turns out to be Shibuya Central Tower. They confront the three curse users at the top of the tower and destroy one of the veils. Yuji and Megumi fight the user in possession of the remaining veils, while Inou fights the other two users. The curse users lament how the balance of the world changed when Gojo was born, as fear of his incredible strength prevented them from being able to do whatever they wanted.
00:07:23
Speaker
Inou uses his curse technique to fight the two curse users, a grandmother and her grandson. The grandson protects his grandmother as she completes a seance, transforming the grandson into Toji Zenon. With Toji's strength, the grandson is able to brutally defeat Inou. Meanwhile, Yuji and Megumi fight the other curse user, who is seemingly able to repel all of their attacks. Using his 10 shadows, Megumi is able to figure out his curse technique is inverse, letting him reverse the strength of powerful attacks.
00:07:53
Speaker
Yuji and Megumi trip him up by throwing a barrage of weak and strong attacks at him, eventually defeating him.
00:08:00
Speaker
There were so many ooh moments that happened in this episode, but man was a dope where it's like he came in with the curse energy, loaded up on his fist, ready to go in for that, and then just, ooh, drop down. Doosh just destroys his face. That was so good. I wanted so badly for that to be the forehead flick, when he was like, oh, can we just defeat him with a flick to the forehead? That's what I wanted it to be, was just the world's strongest, like a Deku flick, pretty much at that point.
00:08:29
Speaker
just give it to us. But the way that they did the nonlinear, I thought that the bunnies had him in a genjutsu and that Megan was like, going through scenarios before like coming up with one, I didn't realize they went back. So it's just like, wait, what is happening right now? Those are some bad bunnies.
00:08:50
Speaker
Oh, boo. That was actually a really good example. They had a couple moments where it was just artist animation, chef's kiss, so good direction. That one specifically where they did that non-linear bit of storytelling. And even if you didn't immediately pick up on, oh, this is happening before, they had the kind of haziness almost like you smear Vaseline on the lens kind of thing.
00:09:17
Speaker
when they did the back in time flashback of, hey, I figured out what his yeah, it was a little bit hazier around the edges. If you took a look, it immediately my mind knew something was wrong, and I didn't quite pick it up. And then it took me like a couple seconds to figure out Oh, this is before this is him saying we know what the technique is. So I feel like that was a moment at least I picked up on. But then the one moment that I really wanted to talk about where animation was just
Animation Techniques and Storytelling in Jujutsu Kaisen
00:09:41
Speaker
So good was the focus shift at the beginning of the episode. When the three of them were outside the veil, talking about like, oh, they have to be somewhere. It just slowly pulled them out of focus and pulled the tower into focus. And I'm sitting there like, it's the tower. It's right there. So much dialogue when that was happening, too. Yeah. So soon.
00:10:03
Speaker
That's what was bothering me was like, geez, everybody's still got like a whole line or two in before they like, finally had the head turn off. It's driving me nuts. I love it creatively. It's driving me nuts. Yeah, like I will say, they did it a little sooner than I feel like they should have because like, you figure it out. Wait, like for a minute, I thought it was gonna be one of those, each of the worries not gonna figure this out. He's too dumb. We have to like, Dora the Explorer, the towers right there, kind of thing happening.
00:10:33
Speaker
but I don't know if it's like for the people who like aren't familiar with like Japanese landmarks like myself and stuff like oh yeah it's not like it was like you know like the Eiffel Tower Big Ben or something like something that stands out it's just kind of like what's the significance of this of this building specifically in Shibuya then of course they like give it the title and everything it's like okay that's really cool
00:10:55
Speaker
Yeah, and I mean, we kind of knew that they were up there if you stayed for the post credit scene last week, because we saw them on top of a tall building. Yeah. But maybe for those that know, yeah, for those that didn't remember for those that missed that scene, it was like, okay, here you go.
00:11:12
Speaker
They're on top of that, but I thought it was a really... I love when you have good storytelling direction. And I feel like anime does it less often than cinema does, because they're following a manga. And I doubt they did this in and out of focus thing in the manga. I would love if they did.
00:11:32
Speaker
But I'm guessing this was a directorial choice in the animating room, which is awesome. So so cool that they decided to do that just for us. Yeah, I'm glad that they were able to just.
00:11:45
Speaker
jump over to the top of the tower, instead of having like an old anime trope of like five episodes of going up the floors and dealing with the boss on each one. But just the way that he flew up with Nuei and just got a piece of like, why they were using that wire and how they like the two seconds was literally all they needed. It's just it's just oh my god, why am I forgetting your name? I don't know who you were attempting to talk about. Maki.
00:12:12
Speaker
Maki? Oh, Maki. Yeah, this is something as simple as Maki be like, here, wire it for me. That makes sense to everybody. Yes, yes, it does. Thank you carry on. This episode was clean. When it came to explanations in like, especially you have so much to ask. Yeah, but no, you have that scene with Maki. And then the quick like explanation of here's his power. Oh, but why like, why can't we just flick him? Boom, upper lower
00:12:42
Speaker
limits. So there's got to be some bottom end. So here's how we're going to do it. Perfect was so so clean with it. The veil stuff was a little confusing at first, but it wasn't too bad. I got the gist of it because again, they went into
00:12:58
Speaker
show me something to make it make sense instead of us explaining it and having to wait a whole episode. The fact that they showed us those markers that we saw in the subway before. It's like, oh, so I understand that somebody has to be inside of their veil or controlling the veil like the driver typically does.
00:13:19
Speaker
But the fact that they actually have a piece that can sustain it while they're on the outside was like, oh, okay, that makes more sense now. The explanation was a little rough, but the implementation of it really helped with that. I think my only confusion was I thought all three of these had to be destroyed to get the veil down. And the synopsis that we just read kind of makes it sound like like there's three veils. There's three because we know there's multiple veils. But I think there's like two that are layered on top of each other, too.
00:13:48
Speaker
Yeah, but I assumed because there was the one veil marker like inside that grasshopper.
00:13:56
Speaker
was protecting. So I thought that took down one veil and then that there was going to be the other marker that was in the subway station near ghetto. That was going to be another one and that these three were connecting the top one. So I think I'm still a little bit blurry on that. I'm just going to take this at its word and OK, we can't get it until they're all destroyed anyway, whether it's releasing three veils or just releasing one. Doesn't really matter. We know we can't get in until
00:14:43
Speaker
one layer keeping the sorcerers out and the internal layer keeping humans in. I think that was the explanation that they gave in an earlier episode. So I could see there being like two bubbles that are two layered veils. So if we've seen four pieces that are keeping them up, I think all that tracks.
00:14:49
Speaker
until the toji is defeated which was not expected.
00:15:04
Speaker
I'm okay with that and I'm okay with it being multi-layered. I just think once again, this is another weird, we're not getting all the pieces. They could have slightly told this better. But it didn't slow down the story. No, no, it didn't. And I think that's the biggest thing to take away. Like, even if I'm a little bit confused.
00:15:23
Speaker
we're clear that we have to take out the other thumbtacks before we can keep moving. So that's it. I don't need as much as I want the full explanation as a person who I am, I think from a storytelling perspective, it's fine. Because it's such a minute part. It's it's really a MacGuffin of why we're fighting at all right this moment is just to get the thumbtacks. So that's how like what 12 episodes to go.
00:15:45
Speaker
Yeah, we have so, so much left. And honestly, I was equally as concerned as you were that we were going to get a like fight through the tower episode this week to kind of fill the time. It was like, OK, well, now they got to get up there. And I'm just like, come on. And you're talking like Itadori can't pull a Superman and leap building a single bound here. Yeah. But all right. Continue with your toji hype.
Toji Zenon's Surprising Reveal: Plot Impact
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Speaker
Oh, my God, toji. I was.
00:16:13
Speaker
That was my biggest, oh my gosh moment of the episode. I was not ready for that. No, because I was like, oh, he's going to turn into some sort of weird demon beast. I assumed it was another one of the things that they stole from Jujutsu High or something along those lines. Like, that's what it was going to be. Kind of how like Chozo turned into like the blood user that we've seen. It was going to be something along those lines. And just to see, like, hear her say Toji, I was like, no, no, it can't be. And then see half of his face imbued on that guy was just
00:16:43
Speaker
And it's like, if this moment is the entire reason that we got the original five episodes, I'm sold. Maybe there's more reason that we got those five episodes, but if it's literally just for now we have to fight Toji again in the present, I'm here for it. Because also,
00:17:03
Speaker
was the most brutal thing we've seen in a while, like that blood splatter. I was really digging Eno's character only to have that happen. But also, his son is at the base of this tower. And I don't know how that's gonna go down. Yeah, I think about Toji's son, or Eno's son, I was like, wait, what? No, no, not Eno. Yeah, lots, lots of questions. You nailed it in terms of like,
00:17:30
Speaker
There was a reason we had so much of him in these first five episodes. That flashback scene was multifaceted for a reason. It was very foundational, Billy. All of that had the intention of being brought back up throughout the series and needing to have that background information. And for us as fans to be able to react the way that we did, I was like, we know what he's capable of.
00:17:56
Speaker
damn near killed Gojo who was one of the weird have more emphasis in this episode how incredibly powerful he is. Yeah. And he's the one that you got to stop to get through the stuff now. Mm hmm. Crap. Yeah, I think and it's such a I don't know about you. This was probably the last way that I thought those first five episodes were gonna matter. I assumed that was gonna be ghetto backstory. That was gonna be how the cult was formed. That was gonna be maybe
00:18:25
Speaker
learning about his dad in some way, maybe learning about his dad or even just the reincarnation character that I cannot remember the name of off the top of my head. Like it was going to be something about those characters. Him coming back to life was literally like
00:18:44
Speaker
Tengen, or the girl, any of those things. Toji coming back to life did not make my bingo card. Like I have lost the game at this point because I just didn't think that was even on the table. So it's so, so cool to be surprised this hard. I'm so in now with what's going on. So here's where we need next week's elaboration.
00:19:06
Speaker
is the grandson just borrowing toji's powers like does he have a space and identity and it's like so at what point does that manifest into like toji being toji yeah i think there is definitely that question because also you say does it manifest as his powers toji doesn't have powers like that's the whole thing is he does not have
00:19:31
Speaker
cursed energy. So is it now? He has a very little itty bitty bit. A little it. But yeah, is it now? Like, that's why Eno got got is because he couldn't sense the energy like this guy lost all of his energy. But now does that mean the grandson has the heavenly pact that we still don't really know what that means? Or is it just his physical prowess? Like the way packed is him not being able to use cursed energy in exchange for him being a frickin badass.
Speculation on Character Abilities and Techniques
00:19:59
Speaker
Right. But like, can that be transferred just via this? Or is it just where the whole like soul conversation comes into place, right? So it's like, if you're borrowing his abilities via cursed energy, I imagine like the heavenly pack like
00:20:17
Speaker
comes with it. So I'm gonna guess that you're right on the money with that soul conversation because the sรฉance, as I even said at the top, is communing with a soul or a spirit. So perhaps it was the grandmother brought Toji's spirit, and then the grandson's technique is just the ability to harness the spirit. So essentially, it's gonna be more or less Toji back. But she's used it before too. We got that in the flashback.
00:20:42
Speaker
Oh, yeah. I mean, we know she's used it before, but the daughter didn't seem to have any power. Yeah. So I think it's just her happening to use her grandson because she doesn't want to do it. Yeah. But maybe the grand maybe that's the grandson's technique is to like also get the power of another spirit or something along those lines because he didn't seem to have any sort of technique prior to gaining toji.
00:21:11
Speaker
you know there was a there was another character in Naruto who was like seemingly a badass he had a headband he had a sword and like in his one fight scene he just died like he lost and we were just like wow we're never going to learn like more about this person so that when he no had like literally the exact same get up and then got knocked out the way he did i was like oh my god it's another variation of that dude like down to the look and everything jeez
00:21:40
Speaker
This waterbending was really cool though. I really wish, I hope he's not dead and that he can come back because I wanted more explanation of that. I looked up what the four auspicious beasts are and it seems to be there's the Azure Dragon, Vermillion Bird, White Tiger, and Black Tortoise, which are representative of the directions and seasons. Directions? Northeast-southwest.
00:22:10
Speaker
So it's essentially just going back to my I'm going back to my avatar lore with like the first avatar when he like went to four different animals to learn the four different bendings. I wonder if there was like a correlation with that. I'm overthinking. There definitely is some correlation. There's been conversation about this, but the lion turtles are just fully benevolent beings that have all of the bending. So there's that to contend with as well.
00:22:39
Speaker
Because there's not really a mole character in the four that I just mentioned, nor a tiger in Avatar.
Cultural References: Mythology and Avatar Comparisons
00:22:45
Speaker
No, the mole was the earth. Right, but I'm saying the four auspicious beasts that I mentioned, it was Azure Dragon, Vermilion Bird, White Tiger, and Black Tortoise. None of those are a mole.
00:22:57
Speaker
gotcha. So I'm like, give the connections. Also, the water is the moon. So there's that other thing we need to do a avatar and Cora thing. Oh, there's a new movie to come out when that when that movie happens. I'm like, does not matter what happens. We will do something about avatar because there's so much to talk about. But yeah, there's definitely correlations.
00:23:19
Speaker
Because there's also correlations between the four nations and four actual nations on Earth in history. So much lore. Regardless, I just wanted to mention, because there was mention that he draws his powers from the four auspicious beasts. That's where water was coming from, would be the Azure Dragon. And I really wanted to see him bring out all of the powers of these beasts and really go into, you know, can he use all of the elements or what it really looks like?
00:23:44
Speaker
even pull out some of the fighting techniques named after these animals. I thought it was gonna be so cool. And then to just watch him get got was brutal. Yeah, it's like I want to believe that he's alive. But I also know that Koji just has no chill and stuff like that. So we'll see. Yeah, I don't know about believe that he's alive. I hope that he's alive. I don't also like, sorry, I don't know why this popped him ahead so randomly.
00:24:10
Speaker
Eno's appreciation for how- Eno and Megumin's appreciation for how powerful Itadori is at the comparative anatomy right off the top, too. Yeah. That was just an interesting thing for them to note.
00:24:25
Speaker
Megami was so much fun to watch and you see like a little bit of Toji in him, especially with like the way that he was standing on the light post with the like he has such finesse. It's so cool. And I'm excited to see face up just because of the similarities, despite them never having trained together. But just like acknowledgement of like how important it already actually is to the story and just seeing the synergy between the two of them because they have been training together for a while now. Yeah, that that chemistry is really cool to see information.
00:24:57
Speaker
Yeah, no, you know, it was good. These characters really did a quick job of growing back together and coming to the forefront of character driven.
Character Growth: Eno's Development
00:25:06
Speaker
But I also loved Eno's conversation that he had with Nanami in the what looked like a K barbecue place just hungry.
00:25:16
Speaker
that was such a good like, you're powerful enough, you could be a semi first grade, why aren't you doing it in this respect for tradition and those around him and wanting to like, get that prowess because I feel like it's not often like you're so lame.
00:25:31
Speaker
But it's not often that we see these characters and they're not just straight up jealous. Like he saw how powerful Isidori's blows were and he wasn't, oh, man, I'm jealous of this guy's power. It was instead, I got to do more so that I can be respectable like him so that I can get, you know, more out of it. So I thought I thought he was just a really interesting character to be bringing out. And why am I trying to say it's like this sees this.
00:26:00
Speaker
Damn, she'll come into me. It's all good. But yeah, all in all, it was a great episode and like the fight scenes were all so fluidly animated. I have no complaints. It was just awesome to let Itadori and Megumi go off together again. Like I feel like we haven't seen them really fight together since.
00:26:24
Speaker
since that moment where Itadori died in season one. Spoilers? Yeah, there was a little bit of... There was a little bit of it at the end of last season where the three of them went on a mission together, but they kind of got split up. So it really wasn't Ford that long. I think we saw more of him and... Excuse me for forgetting the girl's name. But yeah, we kind of saw them together with Meguminoff. It was the first time that he used his ability.
00:26:53
Speaker
Man, I'm forgetting all the terms today. Technique? Yeah, it has been a while. It has been a while. Billion expansion. I guess. But yeah, it's it's
Future Speculations in Jujutsu Kaisen
00:27:06
Speaker
heating up. It's continuing to get better. And I mean, we have how many other groups outside the veil that are probably going to start to get fight scenes and episodes like this, hopefully. It's going to be sweet. Yeah, it sounds like this. They were just like in it now and hopefully they just like continue to keep a good
00:27:22
Speaker
tempo and pace with that. Yeah, that would be it'd be nice if they could keep that moving and grooving. Anything else you want to groove? No, I think that's all that my groove has. I got to just gush about a bunch of cool things this episode. I am very satisfied with it. Yeah. I'm still keeping my expectations tempered, because they've scarred me a little too much this season. That's why I'm not very much enjoying this. I'm just not giddy. Like the way that
00:27:53
Speaker
The way that Jillian was like flipping out of the way that I didn't respond to the gato unveil, like that was that didn't happen with this toji. And I was like, oh, intrigue, intrigue, intrigue, intrigue. That's one more and more and more. I'm glad we're dragging you into the depths here. Yeah. Oh, one thing I got to say, because it came back to my mind and I just started chuckling.
00:28:21
Speaker
No, I'm just juggling the comedy. The comedy always gets me having that super serious moment with Megami at the start of the episode and then just that little like teddy bear looking spirit behind him that you did or just come to the kicks in the face and then just that little chibi style that they have eyes and like whatsoever. It's so good. Can't not call it out because I called out the great animation. I have to call out the fun animation as well.
00:28:46
Speaker
Oh, my God, the way that the demon dog was just like crawling up the like upside down like a horror movie, like it even had the sound of like. I was like, oh, demon dogs were just on some. There was October said. Yes, it is Shibuya, baby. They closed down Shibuya for boo. Yeah. Because goes boo. Oh, indeed boo. And our energy.
00:29:17
Speaker
Our energy is something else right now. Yeah. I'm going to go burn that energy on watching Commander's football now. Yes, it is Thursday night football. So we tried to keep it short. And I feel like we still got out everything we wanted to. So I'm proud of us for that. I like our 30 minute episodes for this. Yeah, they're nice. They're tight between 30, 35, 35. It seems to be the average. I feel like it works.
00:29:37
Speaker
And if you have any thoughts on how well it works, you can feel free to write in, give us any sort of feedback that you like. As always, animationdeliberationpodcastatgmail.com. We are happy to hear from you there, as well as on all of our social medias that I believe are listed at the end of the episode by Zuhair every single week. And what if they don't want to listen to you talk about animation? What if they want to, like, talk about something like football?
00:30:01
Speaker
Yeah, you can listen when we talk to football on the 323 with Reid Murphy. That's REID, where we do our weekly picks, talk about the big stories, and occasionally have games and top fives that just have me laughing hysterically. A very entertaining show. Please go check it out. Check out anything on stranapanner.com. Check out Jay Scottie on Multiverse News. And be sure to check us out next week and tune in next time. That's T-W-O-N-I-N. And as always, stay well. And until we pull the pin on the holy hand grenade, muscle muscle.
00:30:32
Speaker
Thank you for listening to the Animation Deliberation Podcast, a proud member of the Strandepanda Network. If you would like to contact us, you can email AnimationDeliberationPodcast at gmail.com or follow us on Twitter at AnimationDelib1. For this and other great shows, you can visit Strandepanda.com or join the great community that is the Strandepanda Chat Facebook group at facebook.com slash groups slash svchat. Tune in next time and remember, stay well.