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Blended Families, Navigating High Conflict Scenarios And How To Coparent With Purpose With Ashley Brock
22 Plays1 year ago
Ashley Brock of @coparentingwithpurpose is a mom, stepmom, wife, ex-wife, registered nurse, entrepreneur and a co-parent. Ashley has been co-parenting for over a decade and has tremendous insight on how to navigate blended family dynamics. Ashley joins Willing to Learn to talk about her experiences with coparenting, how to navigate high conflict scenarios and offers resources on how to be intentional and purposeful in coparenting relationships.
For more information on Ashley Brock, visit:
- IG: @coparentingwithpurpose
- Facebook: @coparentingwithpurpose1
Here are some of Ashley’s recommended resources from the episode:
- Our Family Wizard – www.ourfamilywizard.com
- An Unexpected Journey: The Road to Power and Wisdom in Divorced Co-Parenting by Alisa Jaffe Holleron: www.amazon.com/Unexpected-Journey-Wisdom-Divorced-Co-Parenting/dp/0615704220/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=the+unexpected+journey+by+alisa&qid=1616621365&s=books&sr=1-1
- Two Houses, One Family by Sheila Adams Gardner: www.amazon.com/Houses-Family-Sheila-Adams-Gardner/dp/1734774703/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=two+houses+by+adams&qid=1616621504&sr=8-1
FOLLOW US ON INSTAGRAM:
- @willingtolearnpodcast
- @ashddominguez
Contact: [email protected]
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Willing to Learn' Podcast
00:00:06
Speaker
This is willing to learn.
00:00:24
Speaker
where we believe that when we learn more, we can do
Introducing Ashley Brock and Her Background
00:00:28
Speaker
more. I'm your host Ashley Dominguez. Today we have on guest instructor Ashley Brock. Now Ashley is a mom, stepmom, wife, ex-wife, and a co-parent, which means she holds multiple vantage points on co-parenting relationships. Now today we are talking all about co-parenting
00:00:48
Speaker
And Ashley is no stranger to that. She's been co-parenting for over a decade, which means she has tremendous insight on how to navigate blended family dynamics. Now, before we jump into the interview, don't forget to rate, review, share and subscribe to the podcast. Go follow Willing to Learn podcast on Instagram and Facebook. Please share with your friends, family, coworkers, you name it. Don't hesitate to reach out also if you want to be a future guest on the show or if you have ideas for future Willing to Learn programming.
00:01:17
Speaker
Stay tuned after the interview to get valuable resources and hear what the call to action is this week. And now to our guest instructor, Ashley Brock.
00:01:28
Speaker
Can you hear me now? I can, we're meeting. So good to see you. You too. I'm really like so happy that you were great to be on. Of the two Ashley's painting. That is always so weird. Isn't it so weird? Like, dear Ashley. I actually even thought about, I was like, maybe I should make a joke about that. I was like, don't be corny. She doesn't know you like that. So you're in California.
Managing Family Across Distance
00:01:53
Speaker
I am, I'm in California. I actually live between two cities, which is crazy, but I live in Fresno, California, and I live in Sacramento. So when I first met my husband, we were living like the single parent dual city life. So even after we were married, we just kept it that way. Our children are in two separate school districts in the state. It's a little bit complex, so we make it work.
00:02:16
Speaker
Right. Well, thank you again for coming on. I really appreciate you. As everyone I'm sure knows, 2020 has been difficult for a lot of us for many reasons. However, for me, there was a lot of good that came out of it because I also became a wife and a bonus mom. And I am so grateful. I have so much love and it's changed my life in many ways, but I actually now have a family and a home to share. But with that,
00:02:45
Speaker
And I'm sure you know where I'm going with this. Absolutely. You don't realize how much you don't know you know. When it comes to navigating blended family dynamics, because it's a blessing, but with anything, all blessings come with challenges and hardships. And so I did start doing research and looking for articles and looking for videos. And I came across your page at co-parenting.
00:03:12
Speaker
with purpose on Instagram. And I just, before we get into your page and your mission, which I'm all about, tell everybody a little bit about who you are. Sure. So I am Ashley Brock. I have a couple of different handles. I'm at co-parenting with purpose on Instagram.
00:03:29
Speaker
You can find me on Facebook at co-parenting with purpose one, but basically I am a mom, a stepmom, a wife, an ex-wife, an entrepreneur, a registered nurse, but most importantly, I'm a co-parent and I'm so passionate about that role.
00:03:48
Speaker
just because I feel like life has made me an expert in that area, not from my own purposeful doing, but probably a little bit of my stubbornness and
Unique Co-Parenting Roles and Experiences
00:04:00
Speaker
all of that. If you're not learning your lessons and life has a funny way of bringing some of that back around, but I've been co-parenting for over a decade and I get to see all sorts of different
00:04:14
Speaker
sides of the coin, so to speak, and co-parenting. So my two daughters have different fathers, so I have one co-parent that is remarried. Online you see a lot of sort of titles, labels, which
00:04:28
Speaker
I'm not a big fan of, but if you wanted for definitions sake, I'm a bio mom in one scenario. So I have a daughter that I co-parent with my ex and then I co-parent with the step mom. And then my other ex-husband is not remarried. So I co-parent two of us there. And then if life had not already tried to make me an expert in that area, I was remarried in 2019.
00:04:54
Speaker
So I did get to spend my first newlywed year in 2020, which was very interesting. But he also, my husband has two beautiful children who are my bonus babies and he also co-parents. So I also sit on the sidelines as a stepmom in that scenario. So I get a very unique advantage point of all sorts of different layers of these different co-parenting relationships.
00:05:21
Speaker
Awesome. Thank you for sharing. What is co-parenting with purpose? Like what does that title mean? Why did you choose it?
Intentional Co-Parenting Mission
00:05:28
Speaker
And yeah, what was your mission with that? So it took me a lot of years to really navigate and understand my own role as a co-parent. And I feel like first.
00:05:39
Speaker
in my late 20s, I probably wasn't as purposeful in that relationship as I needed to be. Over time and over circumstance, I really tried to be intentional in that relationship. Coparenting is such a huge benefit to the children if you can do it and do it well. And I think our first human reactions
00:06:01
Speaker
are to make that relationship about us as the parents, but really it's all about the children. Right. Okay. And just to clarify, you said bio mom. So for those who are unfamiliar, that's biological mom, the mother who is the biological mother of the children, and then bonus mom, which is a new term used to describe the stepmom role. Is that correct? Correct.
00:06:23
Speaker
Yes. So I get to be a bio mom to my two girls, and then I get to be a bonus mom to my husband's two children. So yeah, those roles are very different, but it actually enhances the way that I look at those co-parenting relationships. And I'm really mindful now of how I go about decision-making and communicating and all of those skills that it requires to be a really good, healthy co-parenting.
00:06:50
Speaker
Now when we talk about co-parenting, is that just the biological parents? Is that how you describe that relationship? I tend to describe co-parenting as all of the adults in a child's life that are there to help raise that child and have an influence.
00:07:09
Speaker
I would extend that definition to include step-parents as well. There are certainly times where I like to think of it as the foundation, the base is the two biological parents, the mom and the dad. That co-parenting relationship, first and foremost, needs to be solid. If it is, I think it's wonderful to bring in the step-parents because they're such a significant part of the child's life.
00:07:38
Speaker
and they should be included if at all possible. But there are certain times and situations where the foundation needs to work on their strengths and their communication to get to the place they need to be first.
00:07:52
Speaker
Okay. And I noticed you talk about on your page that you like to, you specialize in high conflict scenarios. Is that correct? So what does
Navigating High Conflict Scenarios in Co-Parenting
00:08:01
Speaker
that mean? Like what is high conflict? And like maybe if you can give some examples. Sure. High conflict is just that. It's where co-parents just can't seem to get on the same page.
00:08:13
Speaker
And there's a lot of resentment, anger. They're very emotionally reactive. They typically, because they're so reactive, have a very difficult time making true, best interest decisions for the children because when we're in such an emotionally reactive state, we tend to really focus on ourselves and how to make ourselves feel better. So high conflict is
00:08:37
Speaker
could be a whole range of things, but if we're speaking real life terms, it's those exes that are just at each other's throat. They can't make a decision to save their life on the interest of their children. Their relationships are very dysfunctional. There's a lot of associated depression, anxiety, different types of things involved in that. And those arguments, those fights, those
00:09:01
Speaker
that underlying resentment and anger is just so toxic. So that's how I would define those high conflict relationships. And I feel I'm a specialist in that area because I've come full circle from that. My relationship with my own personal co-parents has been highly contentious, highly
00:09:20
Speaker
high conflict at certain points in time. And having overcome that, having now have a very peaceful, cohesive relationship, it was a lot of work. It was a lot of work on my own part, on the part of my co-parents. And it really starts with you. It really starts within looking at yourself and how you contribute to that conflict.
00:09:40
Speaker
Yeah, that was the first time that I saw that term used, but I know exactly what you're referring to. Actually, my parents are divorced, and they divorced probably around when I was about 13. I would say that it could be categorized as a high complex scenario.
00:09:59
Speaker
I guess the new age way is like trying to find this harmony and what's best for the children. But if I look back on my parents' relationship and it seemed to be what this old school way is like, the divorce is over. You guys essentially hate each other. You're not going to be friends. And you manage drop-offs and all those things as needed. And you try to just avoid them. You try not to talk to them.
00:10:25
Speaker
But then it seems like a lot of research and a lot of studies and a lot of people have been talking about how harmful that is. I think that's what's interesting is to see how, because this was early 2000s for me when that was the, I guess the narrative around divorce and trying to co-parent after that. But now it's like, it's almost, I don't want to say that.
00:10:49
Speaker
I definitely don't want to say it's like they're encouraged to be friends, but there is this more awareness of putting yourself aside because it's going to be harmful for the children. Yeah. And what you're describing where you're not communicating at drop-off, you're just trying to stay in your lane and not really interact with that parent.
00:11:08
Speaker
There is a model called parallel parenting. I'm not a true expert on that. I know that there's a great resource out there. I'm sure he'd be fine letting me give him a plug at unapologetic parenting. It has a lot of fire feeds and content on parallel parenting, but that is essentially
00:11:27
Speaker
When you are in such a high conflict situation, you just can't parent, you do something called parallel. You literally just stay in your lane, the two homes are the two homes and you are business partners and that's it. There's no warm and fuzzies, there's no friendly contact. That does work for some people because it can eliminate some of the conflict and bring some peace. But I think some of the newer age models is really trying to get
00:11:57
Speaker
to the heart of this cooperative co-parenting because there's so many studies that show that cooperative co-parenting really does benefit the children in the long term, developmentally, academically, socially. That's where my heart lies and where my passion lies, is trying to help people push through those high conflict situations to get to a cooperative state.
00:12:20
Speaker
And so I know that this is the goal, but what about in situations where there is just so much hurt? There is so much betrayal. You've been called every name in the book. How do you do it? How do you get past that?
00:12:39
Speaker
especially in situations where marriage is really bad. How do you keep that as the goal, cooperative co-parenting a mission when you can be so blinded by your own hurt? Yeah. If I have not already lived to tell the tale and been through some of the darkest days of my life,
00:13:00
Speaker
fighting for a child that I created with someone I once loved and I'm now fighting for a place in their life. There was one point where I had only 20% custody of one of my daughters and it was like heart-wrenching, it was terrible. I was filled with so much hurt and anger and resentment and I just thought, there's just no way, there's just no way that I'll ever be able to forgive or have peace
00:13:29
Speaker
or even maybe look this person in the eye again, but I'm telling you it starts within and that healing factor, doing the healing work to heal some of those wounds, that's where you take your own power back and understand that peace and healing is here. It's within. I think that another person can truly offer you and forgiveness really isn't even for them, it's for you.
00:13:51
Speaker
Do you have any tips or specific things that you feel like helped you in your journey to forgiving and letting go? I think professional intervention, having a good sound therapist that you connect with that maybe even has experience working particularly with people of divorce or co-parents, I think that's great. I did a lot, a lot of research and reading.
00:14:15
Speaker
There isn't one in particular that I can think of, except for it's a book called An Unexpected Journey, and it's a workbook as well. It works best if you're doing it in a co-parenting counseling sort of situation, but you could certainly do the work on your own. And it really helped to shed light on what I was feeling.
00:14:37
Speaker
the anger, the resentment, and what I could do about it, even if my co-parent weren't open to doing that work with me, but thankfully they were. But that's a great resource that I use. Okay, so what I wanted to do now is clarify some of the bad information that's out there around co-parenting. So what are some things that are out there that are just wrong that need to be redefined, re-explained, and re-accepted into society?
00:15:07
Speaker
Yeah, this one was a hard one for me to prepare for because I think there are so many myths out there about co-parenting and blended families, but I'm going to touch on the ones that are nearest and dearest to my heart that I see reoccurring either in my personal circle or people that reach out
Dispelling Co-Parenting Myths
00:15:24
Speaker
to me online. And number one
00:15:26
Speaker
is you should stay together for the kids. So I don't know if you've heard that phrase. Oh yeah, I mean on for generations, but there's this myth out there that best to stay together for the kids and that is 100% goals. Staying in this misguided belief that being in a toxic conflict filled marriage benefits the children is just the opposite because children are so negatively affected by that conflict. So if you're
00:15:55
Speaker
actively choosing to stay in a place that keeps you stuck in that conflict. And I'm not saying leave your marriages, but if you've done everything you can to try and heal that and you're just out of place where it's just so toxic for you and the children, it isn't best to stay together because children need an environment where they can thrive and they do so much better in a peaceful place, even if that's ending formally ending the parental relationship.
00:16:21
Speaker
Right. And just to clarify, you're not saying that leave your marriage when it gets tough. No, it's because marriages take hard work. It didn't take continued work and persistence and dedication, communication, therapy, prayer, you know, all the things, all the things. Yes. But when you've exhausted all of these options and the environment is still toxic, it's going to affect the children more negatively rather than if you are both living apart.
00:16:50
Speaker
Yes. And you see this trend towards, well, people try to put timelines on things. Well, we'll stay together until maybe they're 15 or until they leave high for college and where these thoughts originate, but you're essentially subjecting your children throughout these, you know, very critical developments or years to all this toxicity. When, if you could get to a place to just look in the mirror and amicably say, Hey, this just doesn't work. Can we do this? Can we co-appear?
00:17:19
Speaker
and have more fulfilling, peaceful lives apart. So I think staying together for the kids is the number one false, misguided belief out there. I think another one is this idea of the shame and the guilt that once you decide to divorce, that that goes away.
00:17:37
Speaker
Right, yeah, that is something divorce people, I think, struggle with first and foremost, there's a lot of society pressure to not be a divorcee. But if you look at the statistics right now, every single day in the United States, there are 1300
00:17:55
Speaker
blended families or step-families if you were being formed every single day. So that's nearly half a million a year. So we're still in this day and age trying to justify and skirt around this non-traditional family style when we really need to embrace this blended family life because it is so full and can be so full of love. So I think trying to normalize blended families and step-families is a huge thing that we can do moving forward.
00:18:21
Speaker
Okay, great. I saw another one here is divorce creates broken homes. Divorce creates broken homes. I am borrowing this idea from an author and attorney and mediator named Sheila Gardner. She said, actually divorce that creates broken homes. It's that toxic parental conflict.
00:18:45
Speaker
So if you're continuing to subject yourself, if you're continuing to subject your children, like we said before, have exhausted all those options, it's the negative effects of the developments on the kids that it's going to create more of that stereotypical broken harm scenario rather than divorce itself, if that makes sense.
00:19:03
Speaker
And she has a couple of beautiful children's books where her parents were actually able to co-parent very cooperatively and actually brought a ton of peace to her family by ending that relationship and getting divorced and going their separate ways. Yeah. So her belief is that you absolutely do not have to end your family unit with divorce, that you can keep your family unit intact. It's just going to look a little bit differently.
00:19:30
Speaker
Right. What about this thought that the children won't be happy if they are living in two different homes? Yeah, that's a tough one. I mean,
00:19:42
Speaker
Children are going to grieve similarly to what we do, and they may very well grieve the loss of that traditional family structure that may be all they have known up into that point. But my belief, what I've seen with my own two eyes and with my own children is that they are extremely resilient, that they need the support and the knowledge and the love to get through that time.
00:20:07
Speaker
and they can adjust and transition successfully if they're supported in a loving environment on both sides of the point. Right. See, I also think age plays a huge role into this because I was 13, so I was very aware and cognizant of the issues and the conflicts that were happening between my own parents that when they started talking about divorce, I was like, please, let's make this happen. Would you need my signature anyway?
00:20:36
Speaker
But I think maybe some of the younger children initially will have a harder issue with it. But then I'll also say, if they're so young to where this is happening all of their lives and they don't know any different, I also think that then that's the norm. And then there's no ever this issue of like, well, I wish our parents still together because I've always known them to be apart and we've always lived apart.
00:21:01
Speaker
Right, so my oldest daughter, when my ex and I divorced, she was two. She hardly remembers her father and I being together. She has a couple of memories, but they're very faint. Her transition from my perspective was probably one of the easiest. At first, of course, it's going to be a little bit hard just because they're in new homes or new environments if one of the parents moves out, but I think hers was the most smooth and cohesive. And then my older daughter,
00:21:31
Speaker
We were, I believe five when we divorced.
Children's Adaptation and Protective Parenting Measures
00:21:35
Speaker
And I feel like that was a little bit harder. It was still over her head at that point, but she was aware enough to know what was happening in like a kindergarten age type place. Right. And we're back.
00:21:48
Speaker
We're back. Sorry, I don't know what's going on. That's okay. But I saw your two daughters had very different experiences. Do you notice that manifesting differently as they're getting older? Not right now. I feel like both of them have adjusted very well, but I also think that's just the hard work that we as co-parents have put into
00:22:10
Speaker
putting a layer of protection around them and trying to shield from any past conflicts. There isn't any right now, so there's not a lot to shield them from, but I think that has 100% then related to us putting that layer of protection around them, not disparaging one another.
00:22:28
Speaker
in front of them, trying to show them from any type of like court battles or custody situations that may have happened in the past. Okay, great. So what's another myth that we need to dispel about co-parenting? I think the other myth is that co-parenting is for the parents. We tend to, as human beings, put a lot of focus on ourself and maybe not purposefully, but the co-parenting isn't for us, it's for the children. It's a huge benefit for our kids.
00:22:57
Speaker
And that's why it's so very important as we navigate our new role or maybe a role we've been in for many years that we really focus in on learning the skills necessary to be an effective co-parent because they are going to look a little bit different than when we were parenting under one roof.
00:23:14
Speaker
Right. And I think that's what you have to constantly remind yourself of like putting yourself and your ego aside and saying, okay, what is best for insert name of child? What is best for them? Not what is best for me, what feels comfortable for me, what I would do as my first knee jerk reaction. It's being able to like take those moments of like count to 10, let me think about this process before you just react.
00:23:43
Speaker
Absolutely. You hit the nail on the head with that. Potional reactivity is like the number one thing that can be so damaging and or dangerous in a sense in co-parenting. Parents put themselves in a place where their decision-making is so blinded and skewed because they're so focused on what decision am I going to make to make me feel better.
00:24:06
Speaker
And they have a hard time discerning between what's best for them, for their self to feel better, and what's actually best for the children. It's a lot though, right? It's not easy. So all that you're saying, right, it's not easy. And while this is the target, while this is the goal, this isn't something that you write once and then you're like, or you read once. And you're like, Oh, okay, well, I got it down.
00:24:30
Speaker
I'm good. Yeah. No, it's always a work in progress. Right. Continual practice, meditation, prayer, reading, counsel. It is a process. Okay. So now let's get into some of the truths. What are some facts or what are your truths when it comes to navigating a co-parenting relationship?
00:24:49
Speaker
I really just think that as a co-parent, you have a lot of power, meaning that you're either going to nurture or damage your child's development while you're playing your co-parent role. And that's something that I did not understand or really was aware of early on in my co-parenting days.
00:25:10
Speaker
But that is where it was really the aha for me. Like this isn't about me anymore. This isn't about my hurt, my resentment, anything that I may be feeling towards my co-current. This is really about my child and my child, no matter what, will always be in the middle. And not that we want them to feel caught in the middle, but like if we are
00:25:31
Speaker
doing things to undermine our co-parent or we're doing things to purposefully manipulate them or throw daggers at them. We are targeting our children unknowingly because they are in the middle. So just being aware and having that awareness that the way you choose to co-parent can either nurture or damage your child's long-term development. I think it's key.
00:25:53
Speaker
That is so good. What about this one? Because I've heard a lot about boundary setting and that a parenting plan, it can be a really good tool to help a co-parenting relationship. So do you use a parenting plan or what are your thoughts on it?
00:26:08
Speaker
Yeah, I think parenting plans are beautiful and the most beautiful parenting plans come from a true cooperation from both sides. And you really have to go into making your parenting plan with an open mind. You have to do a lot of self-work knowing, okay, what are the most important aspects for me? And then what are maybe some of the things that aren't as important that I can give on? And you have to know,
00:26:32
Speaker
that two people are not, especially during a divorce situation, you probably didn't get an degree. So you have to be realistic. I'm not going to get everything I want out of this parenting plan. But again, it's not about you. It's not about them. It's about your children. So if you can stay super, super focused on what is child at that moment,
00:26:52
Speaker
and work with your co-parent to agree on a parenting plan. That's the most beautiful type. I personally have been in situations where we could not agree on a parenting plan and we had to have legal intervention. We had to have a family law judge order us a particular parenting plan. And having come full circle, I think both of us realized that isn't what was best for our child because there is a stranger that is making decisions on our child that
00:27:20
Speaker
They may have never even laid eyes on. A parenting plan can give a lot of great structure. It also makes things just run a little bit smoother. You're not having to fight over every single holiday or every single weekly exchange. All of that can be laid out. Yeah, that's what I wanted you to get into, the nitty-gritty of the details of what type of components or topics could be included in a family or co-parenting plan.
00:27:50
Speaker
So your parenting plan, there's lots of good books out there on this. I'll try to think of one. I think I actually have one in my bedroom drawer. But you need to first and foremost think about what does that schedule look like for your child? Things to consider is the proximity of the parents homes to one another. Where does the child go to school? What are the parents work schedules? All of those things need to be considered.
00:28:15
Speaker
what that schedule looks like for the child. For our blended family, our children are on two of the most popular weekly schedules. We have a week on, week off with one set of children, and we have what's called a 255 rotation.
00:28:33
Speaker
for the other set of children. What's the 255? 2255 is basically where the parents split the week. So every Monday, Tuesday, one parent has every Wednesday, Thursday, and then you rotate weekends, Friday to Monday.
00:28:51
Speaker
There are quite a bit of trends that happen with that. The longest that you'll ever be with the child is five days, but then the longest you'll be without the child is five days. So there's progress to both. I think that the 2255 works well if the parents are in close proximity to each other, the children are in the similar school district or in the same school, it's easier for extracurricular type activities. So let's say someone
00:29:20
Speaker
is in sports and they have practices and games on the weekends. That kind of helps rotate the responsibilities. But the week on, week off is good for continuity. There's not as much health belongings or transitions.
00:29:36
Speaker
So kids that can struggle with transitions, that can be a really good schedule for them. I've started the week on, week up as early with my oldest as like six years old and she did well with that. But really it's for kind of that older school age, junior high level. But that is something that you can talk with your co-parents about is that daily schedules of probably the first thing to get ironed out.
00:30:00
Speaker
Okay and how often should a parenting plan be changed or can it be changed? A parenting plan can be changed as often as the needs of the child change and ideally it's a very dynamic and fluid plan. I think where the family court system can get us stuck a little bit if we're
00:30:20
Speaker
parents that are in a highly contentious relationship and we're in and out of court where they get us stuck is that orders on paper and pick in the mindset that I have to follow these orders and these orders can't change but you have to know and be aware in the back of your mind that even though maybe at one point you couldn't get along you couldn't agree on a plan
00:30:40
Speaker
So you have orders, you can change those orders at any time, as long as you have agreement from your coping point. So if you come together and something has changed in your child's life that, you know, something just isn't working, you can change that with a dual notarized signature at any time.
00:30:56
Speaker
Okay, so you said in your case you did have the courts involved in the development of that co-parenting plan. Is a mediator always necessary to build a co-parenting plan or can this be done simply on behalf of the co-parent?
00:31:10
Speaker
No, you do not always have to have a mediator. I think a mediator is helpful. I think it helps to keep things focused. It feels to me, in my personal experience, it feels a little bit more business-like likely to fall into that emotional reactivity, but certainly you could sit at a table at a Starbucks, wherever you're most comfortable, and you could make a parenting plan between yourselves.
00:31:35
Speaker
100%. At the end of the day, you are the parents. Know your child backwards and forwards. You know what's best for them. If at all you can cooperate and make that plan together without intervention, that's the best case scenario.
00:31:47
Speaker
Okay, good. So because I am now in this role of stepmom or bonus mom to two children, how can I support him, do you think, in this co-parenting?
Role of Step-Parents and Boundaries
00:31:59
Speaker
Because while we might have a co-parenting relationship when we're on a week off schedule as well, while I support him in this way, I obviously defer to him. He's the leader of the house and I defer to his parenting because he is the biological father.
00:32:16
Speaker
So what are your recommendations or what are your thoughts on the role of the stepparent or bonus parent who comes into this dynamic?
00:32:25
Speaker
I tend to be a sideline bonus mom. It sounds similar to what, maybe what you're doing. Cause I have experienced that what feels like, and I'm not saying that it's truth. It could be a personal experience, what feels like the overstepping of step parents. And it's just a very sensitive fine line that you have to walk. So I believe that the most healthy role we can play as a bonus parent is to really be that support person. I like to think of,
00:32:54
Speaker
the inner circle would be the biological parents, mom and dad, and then we as step parents are that outer net where that outer circle of support and love and of encouragement. I am on the sidelines for my husband and I often ask him, are you venting? Do you just need a listening ear? Do you need advice? I have to challenge my communication on seeing what he needs in that moment because sometimes he just needs to vent. He doesn't mean me to give my two cents and other times he is seeking
00:33:23
Speaker
my advice or my support in something. Is that challenging at all for you to be a bio parent in these situations where you do have more controller power and then to toggle over to this other role of being a bonus mom and moving, reimagining and redefining that position or repositioning yourself in that role to one that's back?
00:33:46
Speaker
Yeah, it takes a lot of that to, to understand, okay, where is my role? What is, what hat am I wearing today? And I really try to be very empathetic in my responses in, you know, as a biological mom, I want to be very courteous to what the other person may be feeling on the other side. So that's just where I lie in that, but it is challenging. It's not perfect. It is definitely always a work in progress for sure.
00:34:16
Speaker
Do you think that because you're by a mom and then you said on one of your daughter's fathers also has a stepmom on that side, right? Has that relationship at all affected how you now step into the role of bonus mom?
00:34:31
Speaker
100%. I think I've learned a lot from her. Her and I have had a similar trajectory in the fact that we are very close, then we had a falling out. There was some misunderstandings and some conflict there. And then we've come back full circle to be very friendly again. So I have learned a lot from her in that role and having to experience it first and then stepping into the role, I think
00:34:58
Speaker
changed the way that I looked at it. I'm very grateful for that experience. I can't imagine I would have said that like 10 years ago. And I'm sure when she watches this, she'll probably laugh at that as well. But I am grateful for that experience because I did learn a lot.
00:35:13
Speaker
And I think that's important to really highlight is that any relationship has ups and downs. And I think sometimes when we experience that obstacle and that challenge, we have this feeling of leaving and, well, I'm not going to do this and I'm not going to talk to them. And I'm not, we start making all the promises and all the declarations like Lord be my witness. I'm not.
00:35:35
Speaker
But then time passes, our emotions move aside, the dust settles, and it's like, like, let's get on with it. Yeah, and people evolve, people change.
00:35:50
Speaker
I really think that healing piece is a big one. They say time heals everything. It very well could. I do think that time factor and then each individual putting in the work to heal does make a big difference in the trajectory of how that relationship is going to end up. Okay.
00:36:08
Speaker
All right, let's play a little game I like to call in my expert opinion.
Should Co-Parents Be Friends?
00:36:14
Speaker
So I'm gonna list off some topics and I would love your expert opinion and you can just give me your hot take, your initial reaction and a few sentences. Basically, yes, I agree with this or no, I don't because you get the picture. Okay, the first one, co-parents should try to be friends with the other co-parent.
00:36:33
Speaker
Boo. That's a, that one. I have a personal opinion and more of like a professional opinion, but from the top of my mind, my personal is yes, you can be friends, but only if you have healed whatever was broken between you. There was one point where you loved each other and enjoyed each other enough to create life. If you have done the healing work, you absolutely can still be friends. You can trap
00:37:01
Speaker
Go to your kid's sporting events. You can do all sorts of things. There's such a big community of people out there that are doing just that. However, on more of like a professional coaching level, I would say, no, if that's not your thing to each their own, I respect that. No judgment. You do not have to be friends. Right.
00:37:22
Speaker
You can be friendly, but they don't have to be your besties either. It's finding out what works for you. Okay, co-parenting means you have the children 50-50.
00:37:32
Speaker
No, co-parenting does not mean you have the children because that may not be the schedule that is best for the children at that time. There could be lots of different factors that go into that where that isn't the outcome. From a personal standpoint, I believe for the child, as long as the parents are both healthy sound people, that 50-50 probably does work best. They get to experience love and
00:37:59
Speaker
be raised by each parent equally, but there's just so many complexities to that. So nothing actually has little to do with the actual physical or legal custody of a child. It's more about relationship peace between two people who are raising a child.
00:38:13
Speaker
When the children get to a certain age, they should be able to choose to live with one parent 100% of the time. No, the children should never be burdened with the opportunity to choose sides, so to speak. That is just a huge burden on a child.
00:38:35
Speaker
And I think it empowers them falsely. There's just so much damage that could be done to either side of the coin in that. I feel like the parents could start to try to get the child's affection more because they know that day is coming. So I think that needs to just be eliminated. The parents are the parents. They're the adult, the cognitive developmental abilities to make sound decisions. Children should not be burdened with that choice.
00:39:04
Speaker
So what if though the two parents are not living in the same city or state and it's not would and then there has to be a choice. How do you propose that one? I absolutely think that the child's preference and opinions should be strongly considered.
00:39:25
Speaker
I haven't had to personally deal with any out of state type scenarios, but I would say that listening to the child's wants and desires is probably important, but that is just such a hard as parents. It's so unnatural for us to be away from our child, whether we're the mother or it's just not a natural thing. But yes, I do think in that sort of case that the child's voice should be considered.
00:39:52
Speaker
Okay. Co-parents should focus on what's best for the children, not for themselves. 100%. Yes. And that, that goes back to really taking a look within to see if you even, if you're still extremely emotionally react to your co-parent, you probably do not possess the level of discernment you need to say, okay, is this really what's best for them or am I making this decision for what's best for me? Okay. Good.
00:40:19
Speaker
Each co-parent is in charge of their own parenting in their respective houses.
Respecting Co-Parent Autonomy
00:40:24
Speaker
Yes, so when we sign that dotted line for those divorce papers, we no longer have the right or ability to speak into that other person's life, so to speak. We can absolutely give each other information. It's critical that we give each other information about the child, even if it's a difficult conversation or hard information to relay, but we cannot give them direction. We can't tell them what to do in their own home.
00:40:52
Speaker
And we need to really work hard at respecting each other's boundaries and respecting that different in different homes.
00:40:59
Speaker
If you can collaborate at all, of course, again, that's best for the child so that they're not confused or having to deal with different goal sets. But yeah, we have to be really careful to respect each other's homes. I agree. That's good. Stick to the parenting plan, no matter what. I disagree with that. I think that the parenting plan works best if it's very fluid and dynamic, just like in our own lives are constantly changing things in our children's lives are going to be constantly changing. So.
00:41:28
Speaker
There needs to be that flexibility. I know that I appreciate flexibility in the schedule. So I believe that parenting plan should absolutely be fluid and dynamic because the needs of the child are going to change just like our own needs change in our own lives. I know I do appreciate flexibility in things like scheduling.
00:41:47
Speaker
When it's summer vacation, we have things that are planned. Maybe it falls a little bit on the other parent's parenting time. You have to go back to what's best for that child. Do you want to rob that child of that experience of that family vacation or do you want to work with that?
00:42:01
Speaker
other parent to get the child time that they need. So I think that parenting plan should be honored for the most part, but you have to remain open and fluid and flexible to that. Okay. Because also if one of the parents is wanting to be too flexible and constantly changing it on a weekly basis or monthly basis, that can become problematic as well.
00:42:23
Speaker
Yeah, there's definitely balance, just like there is balance in a lot of things in life. You do want to try and stick to it as much as you can if both of you are in our structure. But again, everybody's different. Some people really love structure and some people feel like structure is a little bit rigid. But for the child, we have to go back to the child. Most children thrive in a more structured environment.
00:42:47
Speaker
Okay, good. Only talk about the kids at drop-offs. False. I think that communication line, even if it's just email-based or a co-parenting app platform-based, needs to be ongoing. So I'll give an example. If we have the children week on, week off, lots of different things can happen in a week and I need to be able to have an open line of communication to my co-parent to communicate those things.
00:43:17
Speaker
And we have to be able to discern, okay, is this urgent, emergent? I need to pick up the phone and have a telephone call. Is it urgent enough for it? It needs a timely response. Is it a text message? If we're in that high conflict space, do we have a communication platform like our family wizard where I can send a message and the parent will get that and be notified? So I think that talking about the children ongoing and not just at drop off is important.
00:43:47
Speaker
Okay. Good. Oh, this one. And I'm really curious about your thoughts on this one.
Communication in Co-Parenting Dynamics
00:43:52
Speaker
The children may find ways to play sides with and against co-parents. Oh, 100%. They're smart. They are clever. Divorce household, but you have to, and that's where this co-parenting relationship is so vital because you have to put your, your filter on with what information your child is bringing home.
00:44:16
Speaker
If you jump to conclusions, if you don't communicate with the parent like, hey, so-and-so came home and I'm a little concerned, they said X. If you can't have that dialogue, you could very well get back to that very emotionally reactive place where, oh,
00:44:32
Speaker
this is dangerous or I don't agree and I have to take action now. And that's just not a place that you want to be or stay stuck in, but children are very smart. And if my kids were here right now, they would all raise their hand and say, 100% we've all done this. And it was only through your ability to maybe contact the other parent to say, hey, and again, in a non accusatory way, this is what was said. Yeah. Is this true or what's really going on?
00:44:59
Speaker
Yeah. And there have been so many times, countless times where a lot of conflict could have been avoided if we would have been in a place where we could do that. But I would say the biggest arguments, the biggest fights, the biggest court battles have happened because of that lack of co-parenting cohesiveness where we didn't have that ability to pick up the phone and say, Hey,
00:45:22
Speaker
she said this happened and you said this, like, I'm going to put it through the tenure, or maybe that's not exactly how it happened. Could you maybe talk with me about it? And you have to do it. You have to write such a fine line of some things are just not our business that happened in that. But there may be things where we just need a little bit more information and make sure we're on the up and up.
00:45:45
Speaker
No, I agree. I think obviously each house has the right to self-govern and parent as they wish, of course. And I don't think it's the role of either parent to try to control what's happening in the other household. With that being said, of course there's going to be times where the children are going to tell you things maybe you didn't ask.
00:46:04
Speaker
And you might be confused. And I think having at least the civility and to be able to have an open communication and trust, potentially trust, the other person will tell you what really happened. Okay. So because you're also a bonus mom, this is one I hear a lot.
00:46:24
Speaker
People who date a divorced person knew what they were getting into. Ooh, that's a juicy one. I like that. You really don't. You really don't know what you're getting into. You really can't fully know, but there should be no stigma around dating a divorced person. It's just part of their journey. It's part of who they are. I would say they're probably more experienced in life and love and relationships and have a little bit
00:46:54
Speaker
more wisdom in that area or at the very least they've learned what not to do. I was about to say that exact lesson because usually they learn what not to do and they're eager to in at least some aspects eager to try something new and be different and be better.
00:47:12
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Right? Exactly. But yeah, it can be so harsh on judgments of blended family space. And that's just, it's almost mean for, say, oh, well, you knew what you were getting into. Well, that's not encouraging. That's not supportive.
Supporting Blended Families and Mental Health
00:47:28
Speaker
We really have got to support and encourage our blended families because
00:47:32
Speaker
We have actively chosen to take on something that's a little bit more challenging than most, but it's just, it's so fulfilling to watch your children thrive and to create this new kind of family unit. So yeah, that was a good one. Okay. I have two more being a step parent and it's easier than being a co-parent because they're not your biological children.
00:47:53
Speaker
No, I don't think it's easier. I just think it's different. And I think each different role comes with different skills and abilities that you need and different situations that you're going to have to navigate. Trying to connect and find a community of like-minded people that are in the same role as you, I think is very important. But one is definitely not easier. I think it's just very different. I think
00:48:16
Speaker
We all try to put labels on like how much we love our biological child versus our bonus child. And we try to set all these parameters and expectations when really our role as a step-parent is to show that up and support and encouragement as if they were our own. And maybe we can't ever feel exactly the same, but that's okay. There's nothing wrong with that.
00:48:37
Speaker
No, I think that's completely on point. They're incomparable because they're different positions. And if you continue to operate in that mind frame of comparison, it can be more damaging and hurtful than what you intended it to be. The last one, co-parenting can impact mental health. Absolutely. In fact, I would argue that your mental health and your co-parenting space is one of the most important things
00:49:02
Speaker
divorce, child custody, all of those things are such a stressor to the point where some people actually can identify that as a trauma, an emotional trauma. So we really have to give it the seriousness that it deserves. We really have to do a lot of self-reflection, self-love, really
00:49:22
Speaker
take care of our mental health so we can be the very best that we can be as individuals and that's going to spill right over into our parenting space or the best mom or the best dad or the best bonus mom or the best bonus dad that we can be to these kids that so deserve that.
00:49:38
Speaker
Okay. Wonderful. You have provided some so valuable knowledge and wisdom about co-parenting relationships. What are some recommendations you have for listeners, for maybe those who are in co-parenting relationships or for people who are close to people who are co-parents? I would say surround yourself.
00:49:59
Speaker
with love and support, surround yourself with like-minded people, find a community out there, especially if you're feeling alone that's like you. There's such a beautiful community of co-parents and blended families out in social media. Some resources, again, I'll let you know about is Our Family Wizard. So if you're struggling with communication with your co-parent, I think Our Family Wizard is a beautiful communication platform.
00:50:24
Speaker
It's can keep your communication organized. You can track things like child expenses.
00:50:29
Speaker
appointments, extracurricular activities, send your co-parent messages and not have it feel invasive, such as like a personal email or personal text, that sort of thing. If you're struggling in that high conflict space, the unexpected journey, the road to power and wisdom and divorce co-parenting by Alisa Holleron is a beautiful workbook.
00:50:54
Speaker
Even if your co-parent isn't interested or willing to work through that workbook together, because it works ideally as a unit, do the exercises in that book yourself. It's going to be really eye-opening to see how you're showing up as a co-parent. Thank you so much for coming on. I have learned a ton. I'm going to commit myself to obviously continuing to learn being a lifelong learner.
00:51:19
Speaker
willing to learn hashtag willing to learn podcast, but tell the listeners where they can find you on any social media platforms. Yes, you can find me on Instagram at co-parenting with you can find me with the same name on Facebook co-parenting with purpose one. And please feel free to email me co-parenting with purpose 01 at gmail.com. And I'm so grateful for this opportunity. This podcast is fire. I can't wait to see all of the future guests.
00:51:48
Speaker
And I think the willing to learn concept is amazing for anybody out there in any place in life. And if we're open to that, the sky is the limit for us. Oh, yes. I love it. Thank you so much. Thank you.
00:52:03
Speaker
Wow, that was great. Big thanks to Ashley Brock for coming on and sharing her wisdom with us. This was a powerful episode and really so very valuable for anyone who is or who is becoming a co-parent, but also really helpful for people who know co-parents. Please share this episode with anyone who you think this could help.
00:52:26
Speaker
Alright, let's get to my three takeaways from the interview. Number one, if you're struggling in your co-parenting relationship, it's really important to work on healing those old relationship wounds.
00:52:37
Speaker
Ashley really highlights the importance of working on yourself because it's no secret that divorce can be a traumatic event. Healing and grieving really is a long process that can require putting in work. So that work could look like deep self-reflection, reading books or articles, or even seeking counseling or attending a divorce recovery class.
00:52:58
Speaker
Remember, forgiveness is not for the other party. It's for you, and in this case, it's also for the children. Number two, if you find yourself in a high-conflict parenting scenario, there are certain tools to take advantage of. For example, finding a mediator or using the courts to building a parenting plan that helps lay out a framework for all parties involved.
00:53:20
Speaker
A parenting plan helps keep everyone accountable and is a powerful tool to help manage those expectations and determine a consistent schedule for blended families. Number three, co-parenting is not about the parents. It's about the children. If you find yourself questioning what is the best thing to do, ask yourself what is best for the kids? Using this as a driving question will help center the children and make decisions that will be most beneficial for them.
00:53:49
Speaker
All right, the call to action this week is go read about co-parenting relationships. Chances are you or someone you know lives in a blended family. Do your part to learn about it so we can help reduce the stigma around divorce and co-parenting.
00:54:04
Speaker
All right, everyone. See you all next week. I hope you enjoyed the episode. Got some helpful information. Don't forget to look at the show notes to see some of Ashley's recommended resources from today's episode. And remember, when we learn more, we do more and we can be more for ourselves and others.