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Social Justice Education, Sustainable Development, and & Community-based Schooling with Latinx Youth with Dr. Carlos R. Casanova
45 Plays1 year ago
In this episode of "Willing to Learn," host Dr. Ashley D. Domínguez speaks with Dr. Carlos R. Casanova, an Assistant Professor of Education in the Education Studies Program at ASU’s Mary Lou Fulton Teachers College. Dr. Casanova's research is deeply rooted in social issues, social justice education, and critical education for sustainable development. Dr. Casanova delves into his formative experiences, underscoring the vital role of a few supportive teachers in shaping his educational trajectory. The discussion delves into Dr. Casanova’s ethnographic work in marginalized communities and his subsequent dissertation.
Resources Mentioned
- Anything by Dr. Mario Garcia
- School Leader Lotería: How School Educators Respond to Latinx Student Performances of (Their) Lived Experiences With Racism in School - by Ashley D. Domínguez & Carlos R. Casanova
- Countering racist nativism through a liberating pedagogy of praxis - by Carlos R. Casanova & Ashley D. Domínguez
- Social Protest as a Liberating Pedagogy of Praxis: Insights from Latina youth critical action towards anti-immigrant politics - by Carlos R. Casanova, Julia Silver & Ashley D. Domínguez
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Contact: [email protected]
Produced by: Jeffrey Anthony
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Introduction
00:00:00
Speaker
This is willing to learn.
00:00:22
Speaker
Hello, everyone, and welcome back to Willing to Learn, where we believe that when we know more, we can do more. I'm your host, Dr. Ashley Lee Dominguez. Today's guest is Dr. Carlos R. Casanova. Dr. Casanova is an assistant professor of education in the education studies program in the Mary Lou Fulton Teachers College.
Research Focus and Academic Journey
00:00:41
Speaker
His research interests include social issues and social justice education and critical education for sustainable development. Specifically, Dr. Casanova explores the sociopolitical context of community-based organizations or after-school education programs. Casanova's research focuses on the learning and critical development that takes place as Latinx youth participate in conscious, raising, and culturally relevant program activities. Please welcome to the podcast, Dr. Carlos Casanova.
00:01:10
Speaker
Hi, Dr. Carlos Casanova, how are you? I'm doing good, Dr. Dominguez, how are you? Good, good. Obviously, we know each other, not only if we both study under Dr. Julio Camarota, who I now work with at the University of Arizona, but we also met when I was a graduate student and you were transitioning from being a postdoc and being an early career scholar at the Arizona State University.
00:01:34
Speaker
And I was luckily invited to publish with you and work on several projects from your dissertation
Personal Background and Educational Path
00:01:41
Speaker
work. Some of those pieces are now published, which is incredibly exciting. So and congratulations to reaching that milestone. Yeah, of course. Thanks. And it was a pleasure. And I was also excited to work with you and connect with you. So it was a mutual collaboration. Yeah. So so far, you've had at least three or four pieces that have come out this year. Is that correct?
00:02:00
Speaker
Correct. Yeah. And often the dissertation work. So here's a couple of titles for our listeners to check out. And I'm going to also link these in the show notes. Most recently, social protests as a liberally pedagogy of praxis insights from Latina, you critical action towards anti-immigrant politics that can be found in the social justice journal. Also countering racist nativism through a liberating pedagogy of praxis published in anthropology and education quarterly.
00:02:27
Speaker
and also school leader Loterias, how school educators respond to Latinx student performances of their lived experiences with racism. That was published in the Journal of Research on Leadership Education. As you were mentioning, all of this work goes back to your dissertation that you conducted in Iowa. But before we get into that, I'd like us to go back because we all love a good origin story. If you would tell the listeners a little bit about
00:02:57
Speaker
who you are, your life, and what led you to this work. Yeah, of course. First of all, thanks. It's a pleasure to be here with you and talk and share a little bit about the work that we've done and the dissertation stuff. So yeah, a little bit about me. My name is Carlos Casanova. I originally have family that were from Texas, so they were migrant farm workers that moved up to Michigan in the 50s.
00:03:18
Speaker
and they ended up settling in Michigan in a small kind of rural manufacturing town called Adrian, Michigan. And it was common in the 50s for a couple by five or six families that went from Texas to Michigan and settled and worked the fields and tomato fields and migrant camps and all that. So I was born in Michigan, originally from Texas, so I'm like a fourth, fifth generation Tamanu from Texas. So yeah, I was raised in Texas. I have a big family in Texas. There's lots of cousins and because
00:03:43
Speaker
come from a pretty small town. And in that town, which goes on across the country, there was a lot of challenges and structural injustices and oppression that was going on within the criminal justice system, the public school system. And so my family, they went from factory workers into the fields or from, I'm sorry, from the fields into the factory workers.
00:04:03
Speaker
And so we were lower working class families, went to the public school system. I would say education was not my strong point as a young kid growing up. I had many challenges with school. There were some teachers, not many, but there was a few in my early years who
00:04:20
Speaker
I think really showed support and caring and made me feel like I was important and made me feel like I was smart and I belonged in school. But also there was many, many experiences and examples of teachers telling me that I'm not going to amount to nothing. I'm going to be in juvenile detention center by the time I'm in middle school.
00:04:38
Speaker
And this went on, you know, elementary, middle school and another way into high school. You know, I just in high school too. I mean, I didn't know what college was. None of my family went to college. I'm a first-generation college graduate. To be honest with you, I thought everybody went to college. I thought they played sports. I didn't know you'd go to college to study when I was like in middle school and high school.
00:04:56
Speaker
So this whole idea of going to college, it was just a foreign concept to me. And again, like I said, not too many teachers and educators are telling me about the importance of college or how it's access to financial aid and resources. And at the same time, I was barely passing high school. I was just making sure I had a GPA, good enough so I could play sports. And that was a 2.0. So my GPA hovered around like a 1.95, 2.0 around there. But then after high school, I grew up in an area in a time where
00:05:25
Speaker
There was a lot of drugs, crack cocaine was a major drug that hit my community and really took a toll on family members, friends, and it did a lot of harm in the 90s and early 2000s. And so I grew up around that environment. A lot of friends were incarcerated, but also a lot of the folks who were in the streets doing the drug dealing, they were also mentors to me. Always looked up to them because they had the nice car, they had money in their pocket.
00:05:53
Speaker
nice clothes. And I was like, growing up in that environment, I was like, that's what I want to be. Like, that's exactly what I want. But they were also telling me, you know, like, don't do this. We'll help you. You need some basketball shoes. We got you. We'll buy you basketball shoes. Here's some money to go buy yourself some food. Like, really trying to guide me away from that environment. But it was also, I was surrounded by it. So that's kind of a little bit of the place that I grew up in. And then after high school, again, I wasn't thinking about college. I didn't know college. And then
00:06:21
Speaker
February 9, 2002, on a Saturday night, my best friend got murdered. And when that murder happened, it was my first year out of high school. And you know,
Mentorship and Academic Advancement
00:06:29
Speaker
I was 19 years old, and I was totally devastated, confused, scared, lost. Didn't really know what I was going to do, but a lot of family members, a couple of community members and friends really came around and said, you know, you should do something. Like, what are you going to do? You should try to do something to get out of this. And so I enrolled in a community college.
00:06:48
Speaker
by the help of a former teacher and her family. And I ended up enrolling in Jackson Community College in a study like education. And I was like, oh, be a history teacher. You know, I was damped around in criminal justice and sociology. So when you start at community college, you still have an interest of pursuing education as a career?
00:07:05
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, because I always wanted to, even at that point, I don't know what it was, but even at that point, I always felt like I wanted to work with young people. I just didn't know in what capacity, well, bro, but it was like, oh, a teacher, I can be an educator and I'll work with children and young people and youth. So yeah, that was like the sort of like, yeah, that beginning of my education journey. And also at the same time that when I started my community college was the first murder trial, my best friend. So I started my first semester of college
00:07:33
Speaker
in August, and then that first murder trial started in November. So I was going from not knowing what college was, started my first semester in college, and then I had to go and turn around in November and go testify like I'm my best friend's murder trial. But this was just a lot of feelings and ideas and thoughts were swirling around my head. But I also started buying into this idea of education is the way they're like, I think it's going to let me get out of here and do something.
00:07:57
Speaker
Yeah, I did pretty good in the community college. I transferred to Western Michigan. I ended up studying sociology and family studies in human development. Then at that point, I started learning a lot more about, I started taking sociology courses about race and racism, gender inequality, social inequality,
Research on Latinx Youth Activism
00:08:13
Speaker
structural injustice and that.
00:08:15
Speaker
got me realizing and starting to think about why it was I grew up in the environment and the places that I grew up and it started allowing me to make sense with it through an academic lens and a theoretical lens from the sociology theory. So that was like a really good moment for me. I was like,
00:08:30
Speaker
Holy shit, it's not just our fault. There's structural historical barriers that are put in a place that continues to keep us in certain areas. And this idea of work hard and move yourself up, that only can take you so far and not everybody's going to make it up from working hard in this environment that I come from. So that really opened up my eyes and made me think about a lot of stuff with the sociology courses.
00:08:55
Speaker
From there, my last semester, so this kind of leads into the dissertation work and how I got involved really with youth and young people. So my last semester in Kalamazoo at Western Michigan, I got a job at the Boys and Girls Club as a youth specialist. Again, I didn't know what a PhD was. I didn't know what a, I wasn't like, Oh, I'm going to be a college professor. You know, it was just like, I had a college degree first one of my family.
00:09:15
Speaker
Like I knew I wanted to work with young people in communities that I came from. So I got a job at a Boys and Girls Club and the community that I was working in was similar to what I was raised in. And there was these 15, 16 year old kids who were getting murdered because of these drug issues and gang issues that were going on in this community. And so from that point, I just knew like community-based youth organization was my space and the place that I wanted to do my working.
00:09:40
Speaker
So that's what started it off. And then I moved to San Antonio, Texas. And that's where I started really working with a lot of community-based organizations in the historic part of San Antonio, in the west side of San Antonio. And that's when I started realizing and recognizing the power
00:09:57
Speaker
that young people have the collective power when they come together around an issue or, and also like the strength and the assets and the beauty within our community. And not only in Texas, but I recognize it even when I left Michigan, I was like, yeah, there's a lot of similarities.
00:10:12
Speaker
in Texas and Michigan around the Latino community. Even though we're in different regions, we both have these strengths and really strong collective solidarity to one another. That's what I started noticing in these community-based organizations.
00:10:28
Speaker
I ended up working in San Antonio and maybe like four or five different organizations. He's like a youth specialist, social recreation director, physical education instructor. Then like a quick story about my master's degree. I was working at the Boys and Girls Club and I was a director and one day a grad student from University of Texas in San Antonio, she came in and she said, hey, I need to do an evaluation. I need to do a project for a course and I'm taking it sociology.
00:10:52
Speaker
And it was a program evaluation course. And she's like, I need to evaluate a program. And I'm like, okay, well, what is program evaluation? And she tells him like, we do that all the time here, you know, but she's like, yeah, but this is what I'm studying. I start talking and she's like, you know, you should apply to the master's program at UTSA. You've got an undergrad in sociology. So I applied, got in it. And that's when I started learning a little bit more about like the research part of
00:11:14
Speaker
of academia, grad student, grad school, I started reading about and studying quantitative research, qualitative research. And then that just opened up this idea of like systematically or a way of collecting information and data to address a problem or an issue that I was interested in. And so that just also just was like really mind blowing for me. I was like,
00:11:33
Speaker
Oh wow, this is like, this is the steps we take. And I was training both quantitative and qualitative. So I was thinking about statistics and percentages, but also thinking about interviews and focus groups and being in communities. And I always knew I wanted to be in a community-based organization because that was my work, right? So, you know, after grad school, I went back to the community, worked a little bit more, and then I ended up really meeting some really, like Dr. Laura and Dawn.
00:11:56
Speaker
And there's another guy, Dr. Robert Vela at the San Antonio college and I met him at a conference and there's like, you know, you need to get a PhD. And so I was like, Oh, you know, I need a little bit of support. And they helped me out and ended up going to Iowa state. And then, um, so they, you know, they inspired or put or suggested, Hey, you should look into this. Consider this.
00:12:15
Speaker
Yeah, because what
Shaping Research Methodology and Early Challenges
00:12:16
Speaker
happened was after my master's degree, I applied to sociology PhD programs and I got denied because of my undergrad. And so I met with Rendon and Dr. Villanose, like, Hey, like, I'm hitting this barrier. Like, I don't know, I need some support. And so they're like, okay, we need to get you into a program, not sociology in education. So then I went up to Iowa State, started a
00:12:35
Speaker
First of all, the higher ed program and then transferred out of that program to the social and cultural studies. And then that's where I met Dr. Julio Camarota. I didn't know who he was. He just happened to get there at the same time I did. We connected and he said, hey, there's an afterschool program I'm working in. You want to start working there? I'm like, perfect. I've been working in community-based organizations for the past seven years. And so that kind of led to the dissertation work at El Pinay, a community-based organization.
00:13:01
Speaker
Thank you for that and before we get into the work specifically, allow me to say one sorry for your loss, and obviously that is going to go to especially as a young person, navigating so many different tensions society, personally, family wise, and so forth.
00:13:18
Speaker
I'm curious, when you deal with such a type of loss at a pivotal state in your life, especially now pursuing community college for the first time and going forward to other studies, what role would you say education played as a part of your healing or as a way of processing your grief? How do you reflect on that now? Yeah, that's a good question. I think like education for me was, I think at the beginning of the journey, it was really like a, yeah, I think it took my mind away
00:13:48
Speaker
from the danger and the fear and the hurt and the trauma of losing your best friend at such a young age. Because I started reading and learning stuff that was occupying my mind. So maybe that was a way of healing and addressing my well-being at the beginning stages of this academic journey. And also, I always thought about it as a way out. I thought about education. It took me from my hometown to Kalamazoo, Michigan.
00:14:16
Speaker
Then I moved to Texas and then I went to school in Texas and then took me to Iowa. So I always thought about it as a way out. But now I think about education, at least the type of education that I've received around like really focusing on social and structural injustice, racial and gender and immigration issues, like, you know, there's liberating pedagogical approaches, social justice education. Like I think about those as my education as like a tool, right, that can empower and transform
00:14:44
Speaker
young people, but not really having them have to escape and leave where they come from. Because like, I think now being gone from a hometown after 20 years, like, I'm itching to go back home to my hometown and do work because that's where I've come from. And that's like, part of who I am in my history. So I feel like I was gone.
00:15:02
Speaker
and education allowed me to get away. But now I feel like it's a way to also like, yeah, to tour them in power and work with your folks from where I come from. And also not only where I come from, but in different states, because I've been using, delivering pedagogies, social justice education in Texas, Iowa, and now here in Arizona. So yeah, I think it was a little bit of healing and well-being at the beginning, thinking about it as a way out, but now as a tool that can be used to transform people and social situations.
00:15:32
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's, it's also interesting because obviously I know your work very closely and especially I know you draw on Palaufer's conceptualization of praxis, this idea of selection and action. And it seems coincidentally at this similar time, you were able to reflect and act in a way that can help future young people
00:15:54
Speaker
break generational patterns and cycles in urban or low resource, low funded areas for youth. And now after hearing your story all together again, it just makes me realize that almost you're giving opportunities to young people that perhaps your friend didn't have access to at that time.
00:16:16
Speaker
Yeah, totally. Like me and my group of, there's like six of us right now. I'm really close with it. It's like second grade and we didn't, yeah, we didn't have exactly everything you said. We didn't have access to this sort of education. And so when I do look at young people, I tend to see, and also I do a lot of work with young women, young Latina women.
00:16:32
Speaker
but also had grew up with a lot of latina cousins who were like similar situations so whenever i'm in these spaces with young people i see myself and my cousins and reflect and who they are right i know there's some differences but i think we share a lot of similarities so yeah yeah
00:16:48
Speaker
So now take me to Iowa. I'm imagining Iowa. I'm trying to imagine a picture. Never been to Iowa. So you tell me what it's like on day one arriving to Iowa and setting foot on campus.
00:17:02
Speaker
It was a culture shock, to be honest with you, because I also, I was coming from living in downtown San Antonio. Like I moved, I was there for nine years. So I picked up my stuff and I moved up there. And I remember kind of a sidetrack, but I remember I went to my hometown before I went to Iowa, before that summer, before like the first week of August, I went to my hometown and I spent like two weeks there because I just wanted to hang out with my friends and family and really celebrate this moment that I was like, I'm going to go start this PhD program.
00:17:30
Speaker
And I wanted to be with my dad, my family, my boys that I grew up with. So we celebrated for two weeks and then so I took a train all the way from Ann Arbor to this mall town in Iowa. So it was like a 15 hour train ride. And so I'm in this train just reflecting on like, and like just kind of like,
00:17:48
Speaker
Again, where I'm coming from, the challenges, the great people who I met that have been supportive for this 12, 15 hour train ride. Because I'm like, man, how about they embark on something that nobody that I know or grew up with ever got here. We don't know what this is. So that was a really powerful moment, I think, at the beginning of my PhD work. And then I get there, and my roommate,
Afterschool Program and Youth Activism
00:18:08
Speaker
he was from Brooklyn. And so he picks me up, and it's like 11 o'clock at night. And he picks me up at this small little town at the train stop, and he's like,
00:18:15
Speaker
man all these cornfields and there's no that you could see the skyline and i'm used to seeing sky-high-squared proceeds like man i don't know how long i'm gonna last here i don't know if i'm gonna be here for a while so we and he picked me up we end up driving to our our apartment at aims iowa and woke up the next day and to be honest with you actually i was ready to leave as soon as i got there i was like this is not gonna work like i'm in iowa like this is
00:18:39
Speaker
It was like me going back to the Midwest, back to Michigan. And when I was down in San Antonio, I just, it was just so many, like the juanos and latinos that I was just surrounded by family and culture and traditions that I got accustomed to. Then I went up to Iowa and it was just a lot of, it was just a lot of white people. And it was the time, you know, Trump was just coming into office at that time. So he was really highlighting this anti-immigrant, anti
00:19:05
Speaker
Mexican, anti-Latino, Latina and rhetoric and policies. And so, yeah, it was like I walked into a perfect storm when I started this PhD work. So I was in high rent for the first semester, but I just ran into some professors.
00:19:21
Speaker
they were not supportive and they didn't believe in my capacity to do the work with this assistantship that I had. And so I was getting questioned a lot. I was actually getting like verbally attacked in front of other students by professors in this research position that I had. And so I went to the head of the department and I told him, I said, this is, you know, the way that I'm being treated is not right. They're not doing this to these other students, but I keep getting targeted all the time and I'm learning just like they're all learning, you know? And so
00:19:48
Speaker
We had conversations and then they said, maybe social and cultural studies is a good fit for you because I told them a background. And they're like, well, there's a new professor, Dr. Julio Camarota, and maybe we can introduce you to, and you all can talk. And so, I met Camarota, and like I said, the dissertation started just from there. So that first kind of
00:20:10
Speaker
semester, I was just, I was ready to leave. I was like, this is not going to work. I don't feel like I belong. I feel like everybody's questioning my capacity. I just felt like it was not a good fit. And then I'm at Kamarota and everything just kind of like, it was a complete 360. So if you feel like Dr. Kamarota was not there, you think you could sustain the program and complete? I would have left. I would have, there's no way I would have stayed there under the conditions that was going on. Like, yeah, I wouldn't have been able to, I would have, yeah, I would have left.
00:20:39
Speaker
And this is another ongoing theme that you've mentioned, high school and community college. It seemed like you might not have had the majority of people who backed you and who supported you towards your graduate studies and afterwards. However, all you had was like one or two.
00:20:57
Speaker
One key person that could be supportive and a helpful influence and a mentor, and that is what helps you finish your dissertation and everything else.
00:21:10
Speaker
Yeah, that's what I mean. And that's what I'd share when I'd tell people my story. It's like, people are like, oh, you've worked so hard and you made so many sacrifices. And I'm like, my family were field workers and worked in a car manufacturing plant. That's hard work. That's physically domain and hard work. Yeah, I had to do a lot of intellectual sort of thinking and time. But I said, the people who I met during this journey, if I wouldn't have met them, I wouldn't be here right now. Yeah, I had to do the work and I had to study and I had to write papers.
00:21:38
Speaker
opening up those doors and those opportunities and showing you like people showing you that you are like not that my family my family did this to me too right I don't want to feel like I never had this sort of like you could do things and you're an important person but when it's outside of your family and it's really influential people that you meet along the way and they're just like
00:21:58
Speaker
They see the potential and the power that you have and they nurture that and grant you access into places that I just didn't have access to and didn't know about. Like, oh man, that's like a life change and experiences. So you're right. It's been like maybe four or five people along this journey group just been like instrumental and, and allowing me to get to where I am today.
00:22:18
Speaker
That's amazing. And obviously I know how that feels. It feels not only a great gift, but a huge responsibility now that we have to pass the buck forward and to help other future students get experiences and support that we had. So I appreciate you saying that. Okay. So now you, you're at Iowa, you met Julio and you're invited to be a part of this afterschool program. Tell me about the program. What was it about?
00:22:45
Speaker
So the after school program, it was, so when I got there, it was January 2016. So this program has been, I think it was up and running across the state of Iowa, probably for like, I don't know, eight years before I got there. But this was the first year that they were starting like the high school component of the program.
00:23:04
Speaker
So before, it was a lot of middle school programming and services. And it was really targeted towards college readiness, academic success, high school graduation. It was really focused on academic, which is really important, which is great. That's a really important resource to have with low-income communities and marginalized communities. And so when we got there, I remember the first day I walked in that place, it wasn't even a center. It was like a church. So it was a church.
00:23:31
Speaker
And the pastor of the church knew the director and they said, you can just use the cafeteria area where people come and eat as like the youth center. And then there's like the cafeteria and then there's the, what are those things called when people sit in the church? What are those? Pews? I don't know, pew, yeah. And so here's like the cafeteria and then the pews are right there and then like, there's like the church setup, right? It's like all connected. And so I were walking down just like,
00:23:59
Speaker
I mean, there's no computers, there's no technology, there's nothing, just chairs and tables. And there's the director, this guy Monota, and there's like 25 young, like students, like Latino, Latina students. And I walk in and I'm just like, first of all, I was like, thank you. Like, this is going to be great because this is what I'm used to doing. I'm working in a community-based organization with young people.
00:24:20
Speaker
I walk in and a lot of questions, who are you? There was also a little hesitation from the young people about coming up and talking to me. And also, I'm just walking like, how do you have a last name of Casanova? Where does that last name come from? And you know, look, Max again, you really like the fact that he knows.
00:24:39
Speaker
You know, who are you? What are you doing here? What's your story? And so, but also they were, I think just the energy and the excitement that the young people had about just like, just being interested in me because I was so interested in who they are. Like, what's their story? Where do they come from? Like what's going on with them? So there was like this mutual sort of feeling out and interest for each other. But I left that first day and I was just like really excited. I was like, man, if I can do this for the next like four years, like I was
00:25:05
Speaker
This is going to be a great experience in Iowa. I'll be good. Remind me, this is year one. Second semester of year one.
00:25:13
Speaker
The second test of your one, which for listeners, especially graduate students, this is key because especially when you intend to engage in a critical ethnographic study over the course of, I believe yours was three years, you're not being instantly embedded into the community. You already have a mentor and another senior faculty as support, but you have an opportunity to build rapport and integrate in the community before you start conducting research, which is really great, right?
00:25:39
Speaker
Totally, yeah. I spent the first semester just talking to these young people, sharing stories, getting to know them, them getting to know me, me learning about who they are. And then so, yeah, this idea of how do we build trust and rapport with communities before we engage in research. I had the really, I kind of
00:25:59
Speaker
You know, I think I learned a little bit about that theoretically in my grants program when I was reading about qualitative research. But I think it was more, for me, it was like the practice of it, engaging in it without any sort of theoretical principles or tenets to guide me. Like, how do I develop relations with these young people?
00:26:18
Speaker
other than really like sharing stories with one another. And also I think the young people, one more thing about that like building room four was one of the young women said something to me at the end of this three and a half year ethnographic project was she's like, you know, like, you know, at the beginning, I didn't trust you. We didn't know who you were. Like, we had no clue.
00:26:37
Speaker
what you were going to do here, where you're coming from. And she's like, but over time, you know, like, I was doing things to put myself in a situation where I could get to know you and see if I'm going to trust you. And she kept saying like, you were consistent, you showed up every week, and you showed up and you were actually there for us and you care and you showed us that you cared about us. And you didn't let us down if you said you were going to be somewhere like you showed up.
00:27:00
Speaker
So it was also like, I think these young people, when we work with them, while we're developing relationships, they're also developing relationships with us in their own ways. So it's like this sort of like mutual sort of authentic collaboration relationship that happens organically, but we're both doing it at the same time. It's like us as researchers, but then the young people we're doing, they have their own techniques because she told me a couple of things that she would do that would help her. Like she was like, I'd bring a friend with me.
00:27:27
Speaker
And she was like, if you were at a table talking, she's like, I would tell a friend, like, come and sit over here where he is, but come with me. And she was like, I'd have her sit next to you and I'd have her ask questions to you and I would listen. And they kind of, no, it's like, she told me this at the, like the end of the merger. And she was like, because I just didn't know who you were and I didn't know if I could trust you. And she said, but then I started realizing like you cared about us and you were going to be there. So yeah, this idea of like building relationships and, and.
00:27:52
Speaker
caring and loving for our community and the youth that we work with. Like that's a really big key part of the work that I've done in the past and I would add to right now the work that I do as well. Right. And I think you also did a nice job highlighting the insider-outsider experience of a researcher moving into a new community. Even though you shared perhaps Mexico descent, you identified as Tejano, you've worked with Latinx, Latinx populations for many years.
00:28:19
Speaker
still being in a new place, especially given the context of the presidency and how everything was so heightened and that an air of unsafeness was constantly in the air and on the media.
Challenges in Youth Activism and Ethical Considerations
00:28:32
Speaker
It really paints the picture to why she was so careful in giving her trust to you.
00:28:41
Speaker
Yeah. And she comes from a mixed status family too as well. You know, so they're from Mexico or one of her, like her siblings were undocumented and her, you know, she was born in the U S and her, so those dynamics were really kind of like front and center in the work in Iowa. And also like, this was, so I, when they're 2016 and so a little bit more about the program, like it was.
00:29:03
Speaker
geared towards college readiness and higher ed and academic success. But once like the Trump rhetoric and policies and his campaign blew up, like the whole organization shifted from academics to really like, how do we nurture this sort of like sense of belonging and care and love for these young people and also us adults.
00:29:25
Speaker
then how do we promote, nurture, facilitate these young folks into some sort of agents of change? And I think they had it in them already, but it just needed to be nurtured. And so it shifted completely. So I walked in there thinking about like academic stuff, because that's kind of where I was at around academic inequality, but then political scene. And so that whole shift with this organization and dissertation work was just,
00:29:53
Speaker
I mean, it was like night and day that that happened.
00:29:57
Speaker
Right. And obviously that happens a lot of times when people set forth, not only on dissertation projects, but other studies in general, how if the context is changing so much, then obviously that's going to change the direction of your study. So let's go there. So how did you now that you're a part of this community, you're part of this organization, you're helping as a co-facilitator or youth mentor, you're working alongside the youth, the young people, especially at this contentious state.
00:30:25
Speaker
that they're experiencing unwanted, unloved, uncared for. How do you now start to conceive the idea for your dissertation project? So again, it happened in the beginning stages of the second year, or the second semester when I was going to kind of just introduce myself, get to know the young people. Dr. Comorrota was like, if you want to, and he's like, encourage me. He's like, this can be your dissertation award.
00:30:49
Speaker
And he said, this can be your area that you can study and this can be your site. I was like, yeah, of course, like this sounds great, but I didn't really know like what I was going to study. I didn't really know or have like research questions because again, I was like just not thrown in, but I was just kind of coming to a space. The social political context was on fire around the youth that we were working with.
00:31:17
Speaker
And so me and Kamurota just talked about and was like, this can be a critical ethnography. I didn't even know what really critical ethnographic research was at the time. I mean, I did a little bit of reading, right? But it wasn't, I never seen it, never did it in practice. And so that's how we kind of, it just was like, here's a site. Kamurota was like, I've done similar research in the past. I can support you and mentor you through the process. He's like, but this is going to be your work. This is your dissertation work.
00:31:42
Speaker
So we sat down and thought about like observation guides. Like if you would take observations, what are some things to focus on? We went through an Excel spreadsheet around like different areas of like critical colleges, development, gender issues, programming, the dimensions of the program, college readiness. And so we put this sort of like, this is like second semester, just brainstorm stuff, right? He was like, just.
00:32:07
Speaker
This process is going to be really fluid. You don't have to have a research question. It's not like you're going there only focus, like just be open to what's happening and just be aware and focus on certain areas that sort of like you find really important.
00:32:22
Speaker
and they continue to kind of emerge and stick out while you're there. It was just kind of like, here we go, let's do it. This is going to be your dissertation work. And then as time went on over the year, first year, like I would take observations, like already record myself when I left the site, because I had like a 45 minute drive.
00:32:41
Speaker
from the site to my apartment so I would just talk to myself on the drive home about stuff that I was observing and what I was seeing and then I would also talk to Kamurota about like this happened I saw this like how do I make observations about that like when do I start talking to the young people about some of the things that I'm observing
00:33:01
Speaker
Is it okay that I talk to him about the things I'm observing during the process? Am I going to mess up the research, right? Like how much my emotions is impacted related to the research and how am I influencing the study and all these sort of academic beginning stages of learning about research. I think what many of us go through, I was like living it and going through it.
00:33:21
Speaker
I appreciate hearing that. I'm sure some listeners, especially graduate students will appreciate hearing that as well because sometimes you think, well, I have to have it all figured out. Let me decide what my epistemological commitments are, methods I'm interested in, and then build from there where yours was opposite. It was rather your own.
00:33:41
Speaker
I know you use this concept, cultural intuition, and your life experiences on top of your work being engaged in the community that made it a natural fit of like, well, obviously, critical. I think critical is a great fit. Obviously, I'm already here with this community. This makes sense for this is my research site and my participants. And so the work being engaged
00:34:06
Speaker
in the community and helping the young people is what drove everything else, rather than it being the other way around. Yeah, totally. Yeah, it was just really organic. But it also, because I was there for almost four years, three and a half years with this group, and also I was a doctoral student. So when I started reading, and I don't know if I'm going to go off into a little tangy here, but as I started being introduced to
00:34:34
Speaker
humanizing pedagogy or liberating pedagogical approaches. I started doing a lot of reading about the Chicano youth movement of the sixties and the seventies. So while I was in the, like the ivory, I would always say like I'm in two worlds. When I was in the ivory tower,
00:34:49
Speaker
reading this academic books and theories and methods. Then every Wednesday I'd go back to the site and I was like, this is happening. Like what am I reading about? Like it's actually going on. So one thing I think that was really beneficial about my dissertation process was like, it was theory to practice the whole time that I was doing it. I wasn't going there with like theory, let me try it. It was like,
00:35:15
Speaker
No, we're reading about it. As I'm doing these articles, I go and then there's like this delivering pedagogical approach happening in this afterschool program. There's like young people organizing or we're working with young people to have them really unlearn.
00:35:30
Speaker
what they've thought about who they are and their limited capacity to make social change. And we're transforming this and working with them to develop this idea like, I'm a changing, I can engage in transformational resistance and I can make institutional structure of societal change. So how like that for me was just something that was really, really, really special. You know, it was a really special part of the process of the dissertation work to see it happening throughout the garden.
00:35:58
Speaker
That's so funny that you say that because I remember leaving the K through 12 classroom as a sixth grade teacher before I started the PhD.
00:36:07
Speaker
And I remember in that first year being inundated with so much reading and so much writing and feeling that disconnection from being with students, being with young people, being with community. And I think I got really poor advice in that. It's like, no, don't worry about that right now. Don't worry about teaching. Don't worry about being with youth. You need to just focus on becoming a researcher.
00:36:28
Speaker
And I felt so discombobulated and I didn't feel a synergy that was happening in my work. So fortunately, in the second year, I took matters into my own hands and followed other advice, one that I thought was more fruitful and relevant to my approach to research and my values in research. So
00:36:50
Speaker
It is very cool to hear you say like, yeah, I was reading about it and I was becoming a researcher and doing all this, but I was seeing it in action every time I was going to these weekly meetings and how instrumental that was to your development as a researcher as well. That you don't have to shut yourself off from your community or hide away in the library for hours and hours and hours on end without being
00:37:11
Speaker
front face interacting with the communities you wish to support and work with, right? Yeah, totally. I completely agree with
Pedagogical Approaches and Building Trust
00:37:21
Speaker
100%. And it's also just, I mean, maybe I like, I don't know, maybe I made a lot of mistakes as a researcher from the sort of traditional ways of doing research about like, you know, you develop these objectives or this research question, you develop these tools in the way to
00:37:38
Speaker
But I just, I think my experience was just totally different from the sort of traditional way of doing research. But now when I talk to a couple of grad students that I'm working with, they're like, what do you mean you started in your second semester? Like, how did you know what you were doing? And I was like, well, it's like, I think we're trained to think about we have to know everything and have these methods and methodology and epistemological theories together before we
00:37:59
Speaker
I said, but I don't, that's not how I was trained and it worked out pretty well for me. So there's different ways of doing it. So that's what I'm having a lot of questions right now with my, these current doctoral students that I'm working with. And like, so I don't have to wait. No, like, no, we get started. Okay. So it's like, let's not wait if we don't have to. Right. Okay. So you're now at this point, you're guessing, collecting data, you're having interviews, tell me a little bit about the programming, the user.
00:38:26
Speaker
being involved in and about the data collection process. Yeah. So the programming at this point, you know, like we're probably like two years into a year and a half. So the curriculum that was developed, and I just, I'm just starting to write a little bit about this experience. It was like our second year, the first summer we came together and we brought a couple of four or five young people together.
00:38:49
Speaker
to work with the three adults, the director of Kamarota and myself, to develop a curriculum for the program. So we as adults, we just don't want to come up with all the ideas. We want the young people's voice, interests, topics that they want to explore around
00:39:05
Speaker
Again, at this point, the young people were starting to buy into this idea of talking about social political context, talking about activism, talking about social justice education, talking about immigration issues and topics and how it's impacted their communities. They were buying into it and really getting a little bit more interested in it, because at first, they wasn't.
00:39:27
Speaker
many of them came into this program. We just got to work hard. If we're not working hard, it's our fault. We're not determined. There's no such thing as racism. There's no such thing as gender inequality. We can't make any change because who are we to make any type of change? 80 or 90% of the young people came into this space like that. Maybe they were thinking other things, but that was shared often in the beginning of the program when we tried to introduce them to these ideas and
00:39:52
Speaker
around social injustice and institutional barriers. It was really a challenge for them to at least accept and think about it. That first summer we came together and we all created a curriculum. This curriculum was basically developed, we started implementing the second year, and then also at that point, the three dots and also the young people, we started co-facilitating weekly meetings with each other. One week it might be myself and two other youth leaders.
00:40:21
Speaker
And so I would meet with the youth leaders before the program started. And we'd say, OK, this is a topic we're going to talk about. Like, how do you all want to structure the program or the lesson or the activity? Like, how do you all want the people to sit? What type of questions do you want to ask them? What's the activity I want to do? And so it was this sort of curriculum that was co-developed and constructed with adults and young people. There was like this pedagogical approach of being implemented, co-implemented with adults and young people.
00:40:50
Speaker
And I think just the idea that we were all working together, I think in designing and facilitating the program, I think that's what really helped to develop this family unit and belonging and together and feeling like everybody's equal and everybody's voice and ideas matter.
00:41:07
Speaker
And so, yeah, that was sort of like the curriculum and the pedagogical approach that was used. And it was all, I mean, most of it was geared towards introducing them to educational and anti-immigrant politics, introducing them to the history of like activism and organizing, and a little at the end about the sort of more solidarity and collectiveness was also part of it. But this idea of like well-being and healing,
00:41:33
Speaker
Headstarters to end when there was multiple ice raids that were going on, the mental health of the young people were really being directly impacted because of the social glue context was even more intense, year three. So yeah, that's kind of a brief overview of the structure. I can get into more details of how the pedagogic approach was used, but I don't know if that's something to get into or
00:41:57
Speaker
Yeah, sure, if you don't mind, just tell a little bit about how y'all communicated or design your pedagogical approach, not only in the space, but also at protest sites, I think would be interesting to share.
00:42:10
Speaker
Every session would start, you know, we would always send to a circle. So all these young people from four different high school, first of all, we'd have to go pick them up. It's not like we had transportation. Like I would pick them up in this car that I have, the director, and we eventually get like a 15 passenger van at the year, like year three, maybe.
00:42:28
Speaker
So we were going to schools, picking up the families at this point. The parents knew us, we knew the parents. We're going to like cook out to the family. We're going to buy the high school graduation party, Quinceañera. I mean, it was just, it was a big collective and togetherness. And so we go pick them up from school, come back to the center. We start off in a meeting, in a circle. And it was just basically like a check-in. Like, again, because this was a time where it was a lot of fear, stress and anxiety.
00:42:54
Speaker
But also there was a lot of joy and love that was going on in that space. So we'd go into a circle, just check in. Anybody want to share anything? Anybody want to talk about something? We do maybe a little icebreaker, get everybody comfortable in thinking about what we talked about last week and things we want to talk about this week. And then from there, it was usually more often than not, it would break up. We'd go into like small groups, like the youth would have a group, Camarota would have a group, I would have a group.
00:43:20
Speaker
and we'd all be doing similar, we'd cover like the similar topic or lesson, but we would usually work with like five or six of the young people because we wanted everybody to feel like tension and everybody was supported. And so we'd do a small group discussion, dialogue about a topic. Again, there was like no computers, there was no tech work. I mean, we usually like post-it notes, markers, crayons. I think we had a TV on those roles.
00:43:43
Speaker
or rollers with a VHS or DVD that we would watch some documentaries and stuff on. So we'd all do the group and then at the end we'd all come to a large group and then again it was always certain around a circle or the tables. At this point it's a large group so at this point everybody's been talking, engaging dialogue, reflecting on topics.
00:44:04
Speaker
asking each other questions, and then we come to a larger group, and it's usually the same thing. Everybody's sharing stories, finding similarities about what we're talking about, also sharing about some of the frustrations and challenges that they have about the topics that we were talking about and learning about.
00:44:22
Speaker
And then after that, we would do a circle and we do like a little, everybody's decompress about the day and what we're going to talk about next. And everybody will hold each other's hands and it would count to three. And then we'd turn around and see some weather and everybody will leave. At that point, we'd give everybody hugs and everybody's safe and feel good and come back and hopefully see everybody next Wednesday. And so that was like the routine of the center.
00:44:46
Speaker
And then with the organizing and the protests, I think, as I said in the beginning part of this, the young people came to this program. I'm not saying that they didn't have it in them. It just wasn't...
00:45:04
Speaker
talking about it, they wasn't taking this initiative. And because a lot of them, I'm talking about attending social protests here, right? A lot of them, they wasn't really like, let's go to a protest, let's organize a protest. And I think part of the reason why, and the young people talk about it, I was like, we're talking about going to pro-immigrant rallies and protests. For the most part, some of these people, young people are undocumented, family have mixed status. So they were scared that ICE was going to be there. They were scared that they were going to get deported.
00:45:31
Speaker
They were fearful of their family getting to be identified. So they were like, you're crazy. Like, we're not going to the state Capitol. And we were like, totally understand. And that's a valid reason. And at the same time, while we validated their sort of their reality, we were also really wanted to motive, not motive, but we really wanted to work with them and support them.
00:45:52
Speaker
to Salem, but you can also be part of the rally. You can also go in protest. You can also organize these rallies because what is the social political context that has happened is directly impacting you and your family. If you all want to see some sort of change or be part of the change, then maybe this is your time to be part of it. Not that you have to, right? We're not prescient, but think about this stuff. Actually, I think
00:46:19
Speaker
For the first year and a half, it was just two years. I think the second year is one that we went to our first protest together. And that I remember the first protest we went to the day before the protest, it was a Thursday. We were at our meeting on a Wednesday and we're all sitting in a circle again, just like at this point that I think the directors and the dogs were like.
00:46:39
Speaker
you all are ready. We've been talking about this history. We've been watching documentaries about history. You all have showed interest. And I think it's time to go. And it was the day without immigrants march. In March, it was in March that happened. So we're all kind of sitting there on the table. And we're like,
Cultural Experiences and Research Development
00:46:58
Speaker
the Capitol was proud of the state. And the state Capitol was like two blocks away from us. You could see the state Capitol from the church that we're in. So we're like, this is the first march. We think you should go, let's talk about it.
00:47:09
Speaker
You know, people are, again, like, is ice going to be there? Like, what difference is it going to make if we go to the march? It's not going to make a difference. And I think the adults at that point, really, I think we took the initiative to really talk about, like, you know, this is a really crucial time and important part in this current political time that we're in.
00:47:30
Speaker
We start talking to them about the history of activism, right? And the history and some of the activism that been involved in as adults. And so maybe 25 minutes into the conversation, one of the young women was like, well, shit, let's go. Let's go to the rally tomorrow. Let's go to the march. And some of the kids, the young people were like, uh, you know, kind of like whatever. And then one of the, what's that?
00:47:50
Speaker
They were hesitant. Right. Totally. And then another one of the youth leaders was like, yeah, you know, let's, let's do it. Let's go. And we can, like, people want to hear from us and they want to hear our story. And so it got to a point where we're like, yeah, we're going to, we're all going to go. Like whoever can make it, we'll be there. We set up a place to meet and maybe like 15 of, oh no, maybe like 20 to 25. We had this big old banner they made.
00:48:14
Speaker
that day and we went and marched for like a two mile march. We got to the state capitol and it was packed. I mean, this is one of the largest marches I think to happen in Iowa around this time. There was hundreds and hundreds of people there in the state capitol and the lawn. We got up there and this young woman, the one that was the first one to say, let's go. She was undocumented. Her mom owned a little restaurant in the community.
00:48:36
Speaker
She made her way up to the stage and she grabs the microphone. Nobody knew. She just started talking about the power of immigrants and why it's important that we're here in Iowa and the contribution that we make and the director was next to her and she holds her hand and she's crying and she's just talking for a few minutes.
00:48:53
Speaker
And then, you know, there's a bunch of marches or there's a bunch of chants and clapping and everybody's together and then we leave. And then we came back the next week and we talked about the protests and everybody would gauge in the reflection about like, what was that like for everybody to come together? And again, like rightfully so. They talked about how scared they were.
00:49:11
Speaker
The fears that they had, they talked about, but then they talked about how powerful it was to be in solidarity. And they recognized that there's a lot of people who care about immigrants and that there's a lot of immigrants in Iowa. And from that point on, it was just, they organized maybe three or four more protests at the state Capitol. Like they, the young people now were organized and bringing people together.
00:49:33
Speaker
We were going to protest, they were getting invited to speak at protest. And I think at that point, it was just like, full blown, like, this group is like, we're engaging political activists. And this is what it's going to be like for the next few years. And so that was a really special moment and turning point of the work of the year and a half of working with them to then say, let's do it. And then from that point, I mean, but also it was difficult too. It wasn't all pretty roses and everything was beautiful. It was many, many.
00:50:03
Speaker
you know, scared, fearful, challenges. But I think we talk about adult roles in these spaces, right? I think the young people and the families of young people saw us as sort of part of this nurturing, trusting adults who were going to be there for their young people and their students and their children. And I think the parents were like, yeah, we trust you, but don't let none have it to my child. But you know, it's their time. So
00:50:27
Speaker
That was also a pretty passing of the torch. And I don't pass it, but it was this trust that was built amongst parents that didn't really come to meetings. They came to some, but it was just like, all right, great. We're ready to do this.
00:50:39
Speaker
And I know you expand more on this in the paper Social Protests as liberating pedagogical practice, but did you see opportunities for education or critical conscious raising at those protest sites that perhaps Latinx youth would not have opportunities to discover and explore those topics in a traditional K through 12 setting?
00:51:01
Speaker
Yeah, it's a good question and a good point you bring up. And also, yeah, I think the social protest offered a unique space for young people, especially even now. So with the tech and teaching about certain civic, like certain social groups, certain histories, certain topics, the tech that's happening in the public schools.
00:51:20
Speaker
Because young people at these rallies and these protests, there was powerful community leaders who were up sharing the history, the information about immigrants in this country in Iowa. They were sharing resources and passing out resources to young people for their community around health care, financial resources, social support system.
00:51:43
Speaker
And so they were developing this historical understanding of social activism around immigration, from people who look like them, people who are living this reality that they are living through, where I don't think they got that from the teachers in the public school.
Theater and Art as Advocacy Tools
00:51:59
Speaker
I think teachers were hesitant to talk about these topics and maybe not even aware of these topics.
00:52:06
Speaker
It allowed young people to really gain some information and knowledge about these topics, but then also in that paper right about like, and I think this is like a point, I didn't see this happening, right? Because I wasn't with them when they went back to the community, but they would take this information and then go share it with their family members, go share it with their cousins around resources or around the politicians who are supporting immigrants or politicians who are against immigrants.
00:52:33
Speaker
they became like, not only like conscious of the social political issues, but they become like community educators, right? And empower their family members and community members. So yeah, I think like, those are those sort of like the dynamics that happen in social protests that I think those nuances that we really don't see until we have time to like, okay, let's reflect on what we did here and what happened. And yes, I think, yeah, that's a really exciting part of like, social protests as a sort of teaching and learning space.
00:53:00
Speaker
Right. And you also discussed a little bit about how you had so much trust that you had now have established the parents and the young people trusted you to pick them up in the cars and take them to the despite different levels of status. How did you navigate those perhaps ethical dilemmas of should I like do I encourage you to come if I know that they're undocumented?
00:53:24
Speaker
What's going to happen if something happens to one of them and that's a responsibility or a weight that I'm going to have to carry on my shoulders? How did you decide how to move through that tension?
00:53:35
Speaker
Yeah, that's a great point. I don't think I have a good answer for that, but I think what I did, and what I was doing, and this happened often, because I would talk to Kamurota about this throughout the process. I would always talk about, we get to come here on a Wednesday, or we get to go with young people to a protest, and their life is in danger. They're fearful, and they have every right to be fearful.
00:54:01
Speaker
And here we are encouraging them and then we get to go back to Iowa or to Iowa State, back to the ivory tower, back to our apartment and read and study and think deeply about this. I think it really took a lot of toll on me emotionally because I knew I couldn't do anything. Police or Ice Age, I don't know what I would have done other than try to use the resources that I have and the connections and support that I have to get them access and try to help them and support them in any way that I can.
00:54:30
Speaker
But that was something that really tore me up a lot during this process. And I reflected a lot about it in all the recordings. I'm just talking to myself about it, really talking to Kamalota about it. I said, man, look how privileged we are. We are privileged folks because we can go research this reality. And then we go back to the ivory tower and everything's good. I'm not allowed to worry about.
00:54:51
Speaker
ice come knocking on my door. And this is what the young people are fearful of. And so yeah, that was something I thought about a lot. And I think it was also the parents like they, I mean, I'm grateful that they trusted us so much and had this sort of faith that we wouldn't let nothing happen to their children. Now being a father,
00:55:10
Speaker
man like I don't know that'd be really hard I don't have to think about like what that would take for me to let my daughter and trust in the hands of another person um so I think so with a lot of like emotional things I had to talk to myself about
00:55:26
Speaker
And also, I was with these young people almost four years. So we went to overnight camper treats. We were in cabins, staying the night with each other, hanging out. So I think it was a lot of just trust that was developed. And I know trust can only go so far when their life is a danger, but it was just something happened in that moment, in that time that
00:55:48
Speaker
we just came. And also, I think one thing, a lot of them were young women. I grew up around powerful, strong women in my family and also who are my mentors. And so I was obviously always conscious of who I am as a Latino male around space with young women about what I'm talking about, how I'm dressing, who I'm sitting with and where, like the conversations and topics that I'm talking to them about. Yeah, because I didn't want to trigger
00:56:17
Speaker
anything because I didn't know there's experiences around male and these gender dynamics that they may have experienced. So I was just really conscious about that and I think the young woman at the end of the exit interview told me about that and she talked about this sort of like, we appreciated you letting us talk and letting us come to you instead of you coming to us pressing the issue about having these conversations.
00:56:40
Speaker
took a back step at the beginning, or back kind of background. Did a lot of conversation with the young men, because I didn't really know how to navigate. That was something I didn't know how to navigate with the young women so much around these topics. But then as the time went on, it was just, I mean, they were the ones on the front lines. The young women were in the organizing and speaking at the rallies. So it was a beautiful moment.
00:57:00
Speaker
Right. I mean, then it sounds like it really is a testament to the work that y'all put in ahead of the project, ahead of going to these protest sites, the many months, any days of building relationships, building rapport, not only with the young people, but with their families in a variety of mediums and platforms.
00:57:17
Speaker
that perhaps helped alleviate some of those concerns and tensions to do the very critical work that y'all were engaged in. So kudos to you all. But let's do one final segment now. Let's move forward. We're gonna play a little game called In My Expert Opinion. And basically I'm gonna list off a few topics and you're just gonna give your hot take or initial reaction on the matter. So first, since we're very closely to the topic already,
00:57:42
Speaker
Should youth be participating in social justice movements and protests? What's your hot take? Yeah, I think as long as the young people are ready and want to. And I mean, they're the ones that are going to determine whether they're ready. So it's totally up to them. I think we can support, we can encourage, we can advise them, but making the decision to go, it's all on them.
00:58:03
Speaker
Right. It's not to be forced. It's not y'all saying, okay, we're all going. You're, no matter what, whether you're comfortable or not, we're going to be there. It's rather the invitation is open. If you want to go, you go. If not, you go. Yeah, totally. Okay. Let's move to number two. Using theater or other mediums of art for youth advocacy and civic engagement. I know you touch, we've touched on this a little bit in the school leader look that he had by paper. Should I, should they gait? What's the question?
00:58:33
Speaker
as far as youth using theater specifically as a mode for their advocacy or civic engagement like in the school leader loteria paper yeah yeah i think yeah the school leader loteria paper with the time when the young people went and did the skit about the injustice that they experienced school i mean they're creative
00:58:51
Speaker
They have great ideas. And I think, yeah, I think that's a powerful tool, like a theater for young people. It allows them to share their experiences, center their voices. But also, I think this form of theater, what was the form or type of theater called? Yeah, Forum Theater, created by Agustable Wow.
00:59:09
Speaker
Yeah, where the young people brought adults and they played certain roles in the skit that they created. So yeah, I think that was a great way for them to again, share their experiences in school of injustice, but also have adults sort of be in sort of solidarity and collect collectivity with the young people during the skit. Because I think that also led to a pretty intense dialogue.
00:59:35
Speaker
in conversation that happened. So I think theater was a tool that a lot of young people share who they are, but then open like led to a like a comfortable authentic space where there was some conversations about topics and questions that I don't know if would have happened if the young people were just sitting there as a panel and then like let's have a conversation.
00:59:55
Speaker
They did theater, they did poetry and many sort of like different times when we had school board members come again around like who they are and their social identities and related to education. So yeah, I'm a huge supporter of this sort of the theater and the arts approach.
01:00:10
Speaker
Me too, obviously. Me too. You always have a lot of your perspective and work in the papers. So I'm like, it's a lot of your stuff. So that was great. I love that. I love being able to read and watch that video footage and data.
01:00:25
Speaker
back and see the cool things that were happening over in Iowa. And just for the listeners to know, if you do read the paper, you'll see that while there were definitely positive adult responses to the youth's presentations, there was also quite a bit of criticism and pushback. So if you're interested on how adults respond to youth voice, especially on topics related to racism, definitely go check that out. Number three, Latinx youth being recognized as educational leaders.
01:00:55
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I think the work that we do, we know the power and the expertise and the wisdom and the knowledge that these young people have and hold from who they are and where they come from and their lived experiences. So I think in any way, shape, or form that we can center young people and their expertise, whether it's policy decision making, whether it's what should be in the curriculum, how the teaching approach should be used in classrooms,
01:01:24
Speaker
how to organize community-based organizations. They need to be centered. We can learn so much from them and with them. Great. Now, specifically number four, the role of community-based organizations in out-of-school programs or after-school programs.
01:01:39
Speaker
and how they affect the education of young people, especially BIPOC youth. Yeah. I just think they're in a unique situation. Not all of them. There's some that are pretty harmful, right? That trigger and perpetuate a lot of the issues that are going on in society that marginalized BIPOC folks deal with. But the places that I've worked in and the work that I've done
01:02:03
Speaker
I just think there's so much room and space for creativity and exploration around topics that are being just attacked and banned from teaching in public schools. Some other community-based organizations, they're not tied to state standards. They don't have to follow these rigid curriculums that are presented in public schools.
01:02:25
Speaker
community-based work, it can be a place where young people go to and they develop a curriculum. They develop what they want to learn, again, in support, in collaboration with the dogs. So there's some exchange and some working together. And also I think they're a sanctuary. They're a place where young people go and
01:02:46
Speaker
For a lot of them, it's where they feel like they're important. Again, not that they don't feel important in the community's homes, but maybe I think in public schools, a lot of them feel isolated, ignored, silenced. In the community, it's a beautiful place where young people come together and their ideas are shared, their voice is heard, there's a sort of trust and togetherness that goes on.
01:03:09
Speaker
And also there are challenges, like there's also issues in those spaces as well. So yeah, I think, I mean, those are key spots for me and young people, I think.
01:03:17
Speaker
Now, and I'll speak on the fact being a former K through 12 educator, there is just so much more freedom that you have to navigate into critical topics. Usually 12 teachers don't have always the opportunity, wisdom, the permission from administrators, district and other policies clause. So it can feel like a sanctuary and a place that's more exploratory and youth centered that oftentimes K through 12 institutions.
01:03:46
Speaker
She can feel more constricted in that way. So she's saying that and highlighting that. All right. Lastly, we've come to the end. It's time to get you back to your, your beautiful family and your daughter. Before I let you go, do you have any final words or resources you recommend to listeners who are interested in this type of work?
01:04:08
Speaker
Yeah, there's a lot of good books around youth act, the history of like, Mexican American, Latino youth activists by Mario Garcia. So I think if there's anything around Mario Garcia, pick that stuff up. But I don't know, I think the wisdom and the words, I think it's, don't think you got to have everything figured out around research, right? I think we sort of
01:04:29
Speaker
There's these academic books and ways of doing, which is great. But there's, you do the research, I think that feels comfortable and natural to you. And knowing there's going to be challenges, you're going to make mistakes. But have the research be connected to who you are, where you come from and where you're going. And I think that's the most important part around research. You don't got to have it figured out before you start. You know, it's nice, but it's such a fluid sort of reality that we live in and just be open to different views and perspectives when you're doing the work.
01:04:56
Speaker
And enjoy the process, too. Don't be so hard on yourself. It helps us sustain and have longevity, especially when you're doing a three-year ethnographic connect, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I had to have time to relax and chill and enjoy myself. All right. Thank you, Carlos. Dr. Casanova for coming on. Please tell the listeners where they can find you.
01:05:18
Speaker
Yeah, thank you, first of all, Dr. Dominguez for this opportunity. You can find me at ccasanova, or c-a-s-a-n-o-3 at a-s-u-dot-e-d-u, and then also on Twitter, LinkedIn, I don't know my handle name, sorry about that. But you can also look me up at ASU in the Maryland Foreign Teachers College. All right, thank you so much for coming on.