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Beyond the Statement: Survivor-Centered Preservation of Memory to Protect Choice (Episode 7)
17 Plays10 days ago
Content warning: This episode discusses intimate partner violence, sexual assault, and memory preservation following trauma.
Many survivors of intimate partner violence or sexual assault are not ready to report to police right away, and sometimes not ever. But memory fades. Details blur. And when survivors are finally ready to move forward, the clarity of what happened may already be gone.
In this episode of Beyond the Rape Kit: Canada's Forensic Frontline, Forensic Nurse Practitioner Hannah Varto sits down with Bruce Pitt-Payne, a retired police officer who now offers trauma-informed victim statement interviews for people who want to preserve their memory of an incident without entering the criminal justice system.
Bruce breaks down how survivor-led statement interviews work, why capturing memory early matters before trauma and time distort recall, what confidentiality protections survivors retain, and how this tool protects choice and autonomy. The discussion explores who benefits from this service and how it creates pathways that do not force survivors into decisions they are not ready to make.
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Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast and Its Focus
00:00:07
Speaker
This is not just another medical podcast or true crime series. This is the voice of forensic nursing in Canada. This is Beyond the Rape Kit, Canada's Forensic Frontline.
00:00:20
Speaker
We're the Canadian Forensic Nurses Association. We're pulling back the curtain on what really happens when trauma meets healthcare, when survivors seek justice, and when nurses stand at the front lines of both.
00:00:51
Speaker
Welcome back to Beyond the Rape Kit, Canada's Forensic Frontline, a podcast of the Canadian Forensic Nurses Association. I'm glad you're here with us today because we're diving into a topic that I bet most of us don't even think was a thing or an option for survivors of violent crime.
Tools and Options for Survivors
00:01:07
Speaker
Imagine this. What if you could preserve the truth of what happened without stepping into a police station? Well, today we're talking about a tool I've only just heard about, but we all, I think, need to consider.
00:01:20
Speaker
We're exploring something that sits right at the intersection of safety, memory, and survivor choice. And honestly, it's one of those realities we all know but rarely say out loud. Many people who experience partner violence or sexual assault aren't ready or maybe don't feel safe to report to police, at least not right away, sometimes not ever.
00:01:40
Speaker
But that doesn't mean their story should also disappear into the fog of trauma or time. It shouldn't mean that we don't protect them and their memory of what has happened. The same way that we protect possible physical evidence in a forensic exam, for example.
00:01:55
Speaker
There are options that honor readiness, autonomy, and control. Who knew? so that brings me to today's guest.
Interview Techniques and Survivor Autonomy
00:02:05
Speaker
Bruce Pitt-Payne is a retired RCMP major crime investigator and an interview specialist with decades of investigative experience.
00:02:13
Speaker
Bruce has taken his expertise and his experience and he's reshaped it into something truly survivor-centered. He offers high-quality, trauma-informed victim statement interviews for people who want to preserve their memory of an incident without having to enter the criminal justice system just yet.
00:02:32
Speaker
It's a conversation about choice today, it's about timing, and it's about creating pathways that don't force survivors into decisions that maybe they're just not ready to make. So, Bruce, thank you so much for being here.
00:02:44
Speaker
You're very welcome. I'd like to start with the why. You spent a career inside policing. What experiences made you decide to offer this service outside the system? And just sort of tell me about what this service even is.
00:02:58
Speaker
Well, to be honest, when I was in policing, particularly in the early days, ah this never would have occurred to me that there are more options for a survivor, somebody who has ah been sexually assaulted, has been involved in a domestic violence or intimate partner violence situation, um We didn't know of the options other than come to us, report it, and we'll take you through the court system if the situation, the investigation deems you to be reliable and credible and such at the end of the day. um
00:03:39
Speaker
What has happened is, and it it started before the Me Too movement, but I think it really gained traction during that period, the a lot more research was done into, and I'm going to use the term victim as opposed to survivor here because it's a term that is used, victimology, ah in the research. But we've learned through scientific studies that autonomy, that return or transfer of control from the investigative part back to the survivor victim is essential, not just to help the memory
00:04:19
Speaker
to actually build true rapport. Autonomy is part of rapport, a big essential part. And we never really paid attention to that. So we hurt our investigation. And frankly, I think we hurt the criminal justice system, the outcome, and we also hurt the victim, the person alleging ah that something happened to them. So the reason is, is we didn't get information if we took away the autonomy, if it was all about the police investigation.
00:04:53
Speaker
So we didn't get what we needed to potentially prosecute successfully anyway. But we also missed probably the most important point of trauma-informed practice, and that is allowing control to remain with the person reporting.
00:05:11
Speaker
So it hurts the whole system. and And, you know, I just have talked to so many people after leaving the police force. They're more likely to talk to me now, believe it or not, where they say, well, what would you do in this situation? Or do I have to do this?
00:05:27
Speaker
And I realized many of the survivors, wanted, number one, to be heard. That was a very important part. That's part of the control.
00:05:39
Speaker
And they also wanted to have the choice about what happens to what they say, how it's used, and when it's used. um And I think that that that made me then look at what forensic nursing has been doing for years, which is gathering evidence,
00:06:00
Speaker
And if the time is not right for the person that has survived the incident, then you hold on to that evidence. You maintain continuity of that evidence. So when the person wants to take the control, make the decision to go forward with the justice system,
00:06:26
Speaker
then they can without losing because something has damaged the value, the weight that can be assigned to the physical evidence.
Introduction to the Amber Flower Project
00:06:36
Speaker
Verbal evidence is trace evidence too. That's what the science has shown us. So I thought, why can we not preserve that as well? And I'm not, this is, I want to say at the front end, Hannah, this is not to slam the police. Their hands are tied in some ways.
00:06:53
Speaker
But the perfect world or situation would be where the best interviewers, and it has to be the best interviewers. It can't be just anybody and not all police are equal.
00:07:03
Speaker
They're trained in different things. They had different specialties. But the best case scenario would be where ah somebody went to the police and could say, I'm not ready to go forward through the judicial system, through the legal system, through the courts, through the crown. But would you please take my statement, take it well and preserve it on audio and video so that it's there when I do need it?
00:07:28
Speaker
And nobody can then attack me and say, oh, you delayed your, which is, frankly, I'm going to use the term BS. It's inappropriate for anybody to criticize the delay, but it does happen.
00:07:42
Speaker
And also the reliability could be questioned and the credibility, the honesty of the person as it gets delayed and as time goes on. So I had the perfect world set up, but I'm not in charge of all of the police.
00:07:58
Speaker
So I thought I can take it upon myself. That's what we have to do. I can actually make my own decisions now without having to go through Ottawa or someone else.
00:08:09
Speaker
So why not do it? So that is how this was born. It is to do what you have done for ages in the forensic nursing specialty, which is take some evidence. In this case, it's verbal.
00:08:23
Speaker
and this is where the Amber Flower Project name came from, you can actually encapsulate it in some way so it cannot change. So that when it does go to court, if the survivor wants to go in a year or two years, then they can produce through Crown evidence showing what they would have said at the time that it happened or soon after. And it can show the history of that interview, of their recall. And it's not going to go to get around every issue, but it's going to get around a lot of the ones that frankly are still based on mythology.
00:09:08
Speaker
We call them rape myths, sexual assault myths, domestic violent myths, about decisions and such. It won't get rid of all of them, but it sure will be better than where we're at right now. So that was the short version of how I came about this.
00:09:23
Speaker
Bruce, that's so powerful. um So many things I want to comment on there. And I will tell you, doing this work, we hear victim survivors tell us that they want documentation, but they just don't want the pressure or maybe the consequences of what would be a formal police report. um And of course, it's not the role or training within forensic nurse examiners to collect statements. Forensic nurses are already collecting, say, forensic specimens that might be used as evidence, and we often will store this until survivors feel ready to provide their statement or to report to police.
00:09:56
Speaker
um So what is the difference here, um if maybe there even is a difference, but what we're really talking about is the verbal statement that they might have given to police if they decided to make a police report, but rather we would be doing it as if we're storing evidence like a forensic nurse would store evidence?
00:10:15
Speaker
Absolutely. What we do is we would collect the evidence, the verbal evidence, what they ah tell us, the detail, and a good interviewer would get very fine-grained detail about what happened without actually asking the inappropriate or or inappropriately wording, let's put it this way, some of the questions that have been asked in the past. um So you would gather that information ask Whereas with physical evidence, a forensic nurse examiner would store it somewhere and document everywhere it's been what we call the continuity. So you can say in court later, this is what I seized and I know that it has not been tampered with, corrupted, contaminated, that sort of thing.
00:11:01
Speaker
If we look at verbal evidence as a trace evidence as well, then we can protect that by audio and video recording a good interview, a solidly done interview that follows the science that is also trauma-informed so we don't actually hurt people.
00:11:21
Speaker
the reporting person um any more than if they were not interviewed, for instance.
Evidence Preservation and Legal Implications
00:11:26
Speaker
Okay? So all of that done, we capture it, and then we can say the same thing, or Crown can express um through continuity examination.
00:11:36
Speaker
ah Your Honor, this was taken on this date. The continuity was maintained. Now, continuity isn't a huge issue when it comes to a digital file. OK, somebody can't just say it's been tampered with. They have to have some sort of evidence or or whatnot on that. So what would happen is we would store that file and then it would be presented in court as here's what happened on this date and time. So people can't argue that the memory changed over time and we don't have an absolute to compare it to.
00:12:11
Speaker
So does this take the place of a police statement? and that' ah That depends type of answer. So um the police might want to do their own interview later.
00:12:24
Speaker
um But I don't think it's necessary. If the interview is audio and video recorded, then it shows the process. It shows how it was done. And there would be less likelihood of somebody challenging the insertion of suggestibility or bias on the part of the interviewer or the system in general. So I can't see why they would do it. But I'm going to give you an example of if I were a serving police officer right now and it was only
00:12:55
Speaker
handwritten, then I would probably do a proper interview that was audio and video recorded. And frankly, in this day and age, if it was even just audio recorded, it might be challenged as well by a police officer. And and in all fairness, it may be justified.
00:13:12
Speaker
That's why The person in my shoes has to know what they're doing. We cannot just, I can't go out, for instance, if I need another person to help me and say, listen, I know you've done a couple of interviews. do you mind doing one for me? They have to be in a specialist.
00:13:32
Speaker
One thing I'm thinking of is that survivors often worry about forgetting details or not remembering details. They don't know the answer to the questions that are being asked, especially after trauma.
00:13:45
Speaker
So why is early documentation so important? Well, it's the early documentation and the early capture. And what um I'm going to equate it back to the physical evidence collection. um If I were to ask you as a forensic nurse examiner, would there be potential pitfalls to waiting six months to examine somebody who had been sexually assaulted or a ah ah victim of domestic violence. And you would say exactly what I'm going to say.
00:14:22
Speaker
Absolutely, there would, because there's more room for defense and justifiable defense argument of contamination. And in in my line of work, we would call that suggestion. Somebody could watch the media be allegedly contaminated. Somebody could read a document that could apparently contaminate their memory, or they could talk to other persons. The other thing is that memory does change over time.
00:14:51
Speaker
So if you capture it at the beginning and it changes slightly over time, and I'm talking use of words and such, not the key points. ah the key actions and such from the incident.
00:15:05
Speaker
um But if it changes over time, we can track that. So if the person is interviewed right after the event, and then they are frankly interviewed on the stand later, even two years later, those differences can be pointed out and explained. But imagine if we didn't capture that first interview, and that was done only a month before they took the stand to two years later.
00:15:34
Speaker
Now there's all different sorts of room for argument. So it's protecting them from unnecessary, inappropriate criticism by the system.
00:15:50
Speaker
So it's really about capturing what is true now, before time, stress, other factors start to blur the edges. Right. Yeah, absolutely. Get it when it's fresh, and then with a little luck, hope that the people within the system understand what the science says about memory so the victim is not penalized for deviating from that initial statement.
00:16:17
Speaker
So what it does is it just shows the continuity of the verbal trace evidence. And A lot of things can change, but they're also easily explained.
00:16:31
Speaker
So in thinking about this and trying to walk through it, this would be something that a victim or survivor might be able to access someone like yourself to interview, record a statement without having to report to police. So i think it's equally important that we clarify what this is not.
00:16:50
Speaker
Can you talk about that? Yeah, well, first off, I would not be an investigator in this. I would simply gather the evidence in the same way a forensic nurse examiner would not be considered the lead investigator on the police investigation. I'm staying away from that. That would be absolutely ah ah dangerous.
00:17:12
Speaker
And the police would justifiably get very upset at that. So I am going to preserve, capture and preserve evidence the verbal evidence for later that could be used within a police investigation when the victim decides to pursue that, if at all.
00:17:32
Speaker
Now, it could also be used in a civil investigation as well for a balance of probabilities if they don't want to go to the police. There might be, for instance, a lawsuit or some sort of protection order or such where this could be used as well, well after the fact.
00:17:49
Speaker
um So, yeah, I don't know if that answered your question fully. um i'm I will give advice in that I will act as a consultant. That's the first part of any contact that I have with the person. I will answer any and every question and let them know how this will work. But I will not give legal advice and I will not tell them, I think in this situation you should or shouldn't do this.
00:18:16
Speaker
I will give them, and Hannah, you set this up beautifully. It's options, choices, decisions, control, autonomy. I will give them that, but I will not try to skew their decision because that would actually put me in a position where I could hurt them.
00:18:36
Speaker
I do think that distinction is really important, especially as forensic nurse examiners. One of our values is that everything is survivor or patient led, that it is about consent and choice. We present the options. We cannot really tell you what to do.
00:18:53
Speaker
And I think survivors deserve a space that isn't tied to consequences that they're not quite ready for, which is why we offer a stored evidence option, because there's a lot of things to think about when moving forward with a police statement, for example. And sometimes people just aren't in a safe space to be able to do that, or they need to get their ducks in a row, per se, in order to take anything further through a legal system or a policing system.
00:19:21
Speaker
So let's talk a little bit about what investigations might do with the statement evidence, if that's what you want to call it. Has this approach been tested in court anywhere else that we know of? It has been on a very ad hoc basis where somebody has come in and said, ah my friend interviewed me. I've had those in the past. Now, that's not as good because you don't have a professional, very high-end interview specialist doing it. So it could have its problems. um
00:19:52
Speaker
I have done a few right now. I am not necessarily linked to a hospital or or any other groups. That's something that I'd like to see happen in the future. But I want to make sure we have all our ducks in in order first before we put anybody in a position of trusting us.
00:20:13
Speaker
OK, so i if that statement exists, here's what would happen, Hannah, is I would do the interview. And then at the end of that interview, I would actually turn that digital master over to the interviewee.
00:20:33
Speaker
And I would stress, keep this secured and keep it hidden. And the reason I'm saying this is you can only imagine if somebody is in a relationship, they speak to me, it's on a digital drive, and they leave it out in the open and the, let's call the person the perpetrator,
00:20:53
Speaker
finds it. So that's not going to help the situation either. So they would be given some good ideas on how to deal with that. And then frankly, it's up to them to deal with it after that. I would get called to court later to say, here's how I took that statement if it was contested.
00:21:09
Speaker
um So I would say, here's what happened. I did the video like this. It was audio, video recorded, blah, blah, blah. Okay. The police would use it to As part of their investigation, they would have physical evidence and verbal evidence. This would be one of probably many interviews on a file if it ever went to court. But here's a very important point, and and I have to make this clear.
00:21:35
Speaker
um Survivors, any witness has to understand that in the Canadian legal system, just because you give a good statement that's captured on video, it's used in the investigative process, but it's not used in the court process. So that person must still take the stand.
00:21:55
Speaker
and give evidence in chief and then submit to cross-examination. We can't get rid of that. With children and such, I think um people under a certain age in Canada, we do have some laws that allow for the introduction of that evidence.
00:22:11
Speaker
interview video, but it isn't right across the board and Crown has to successfully argue that point. So we're not there yet, but for now, I always make somebody, i don't want them coming back later and saying, oh my God, I got told I have to take the stand. I'm very clear that this does not necessary necessarily preclude that.
00:22:35
Speaker
I think that's a really good distinction to make, um especially when I think about some of the true crime shows we see, often American-based. We see the police interview. we see it being introduced potentially in the court system as part of the evidence. I'll have to admit I didn't know that that couldn't be added. Is that something that is up for discussion?
00:23:00
Speaker
Do you know? It's up for discussion between myself and the person that would want to be interviewed. but it's it's not something that I can change.
00:23:12
Speaker
um Crown would have to look at it and say, does it fit the legislated provisions? And um I believe still age is a factor, if I'm correct. It's it's certain people under a certain age. so um And I believe it's Section 715 of the Criminal Code. That's where I could do my own research a little bit. Bottom line,
00:23:36
Speaker
It's something that has to be put forward to the victim so they don't feel duped by me afterwards. I wonder if it is up for conversation within our legislative system, maybe the criminal code, as to whether we can use police interview or non-police interview video or audio evidence within those trials.
00:24:03
Speaker
That's what I think I was getting at, and it doesn't seem like we're there yet or open for that conversation. Yeah, it's it's very complex. um ah In a perfect world, we could do that.
00:24:15
Speaker
But we also have to remember that it can't take away the defense lawyer's ability to cross-examine. The person on the stand, that's and a very crucial part of the process. um With children, for instance, I've seen some brilliant stuff done where, for instance, the defense and the prosecutor are in a room watching the interview. going on. There are headphones in the interviewer, and each are able to say, can you please ask this or go over this topic to try and get this information so that cross-examination is sort of done in a very trauma-informed way right at the interview.
00:25:00
Speaker
But that is something that has not happened very often, um aside from possibly with children or very vulnerable individuals.
Beneficiaries and Trauma-Informed Approach
00:25:10
Speaker
Who do you see benefiting most from the kind of interview technique you're proposing? the The non-police reported statement, I guess is what we call it. Or do you have a name for it?
00:25:23
Speaker
Yeah, well, first off, I want to make a clear point that that unfortunately children aren't going to benefit from this. um I am trained in child interviewing. It is a specialty of specialties.
00:25:36
Speaker
um But here's the thing is when it involves children. That decision cannot necessarily rest, obviously, with a young child, whether they want to go to the police. There are all different issues there. So it would be improper for me to get involved in that. And then, for instance, say, sure, to the mom and dad, hold back on giving that interview to the police immediately. in that one i would be morally bound to recommend to actually go to the place and do something it's not the same with an adult it's not the same thing with the people that we're talking about here so who would benefit i'm going to suggest anyone and everyone where there is mythology that still abounds about how people should talk to us what they should remember how their memory works how their presentation is their behavior And they fall into the groups of interperson or sorry, intimate partner violence ah as well. And that's what we refer to domestic violence as now. um Anything to do with femicide, frankly, um and um as well, anybody that has been sexually assaulted,
00:26:50
Speaker
But I don't know that we want to even leave it at that. It just could be an assault by somebody that you know and you're deciding to hold off. So...
00:27:02
Speaker
I'm going to point out one thing is there has been a misunderstanding. I did receive a couple of calls from people um and what they wanted was it was like five years after the fact and they just wanted me to document it. And obviously that really held no value because it wasn't done at the time. So anybody who wishes to lock it in, in a very trauma informed way, um it'll work for them.
00:27:31
Speaker
What does that trauma-informed way look like? I'm thinking like these conversations are heavy. I've been in many of them. How do you go about the trauma-informed approach or support the victim-survivor emotionally during this whole process?
00:27:49
Speaker
Yeah, and that's a very tough question is in order to be a very good interviewer, it's not just about taking a training course. You have to be high in emotional intelligence. You don't have to be, ah as George Bush said, a rocket surgeon to do it, but the emotional intelligence allows somebody to probably use better critical thinking skills, not let the biases come in, not let the mythology come in. So when you hear something,
00:28:16
Speaker
You don't question it necessarily because you understand already. um For instance, the delay. If somebody said um this happened on April 1st of 2025 and they're reporting it today or they're speaking to me, I'm not going to say, for instance, and this is very important, use the word why in my question. Why did it take so long for you to report? That sounds like I'm wagging a finger at the person and and actually casting judgment.
00:28:47
Speaker
So there are ways to say that, and a good interviewer with high emotional intelligence might say something like, now, I am not judging you today, but obviously people along the way may want answers to questions, and it's best that I ask them in advance so that we have that answer in the forefront. So um you ah told me that it happened on April 1st of this year, and now you're being interviewed today. And you've actually said that you haven't decided whether you want to report to the police. Can you help me understand that?
00:29:22
Speaker
Now, can you see how just couching it in different language and and and stressing that you aren't afraid of of, I guess, making a mistake or explaining something, there are no Cadbury secrets in this anymore like we did in the old days, which is, I can't really answer that, but come and talk to me. You will explain everything. You will listen to everybody. You will give them even minor control.
00:29:56
Speaker
In the old day, we would say, you sit here, I sit here. I might be more prone to say, where would you like to sit? I might be more prone to say, would you like this? ah Where would you like to do the interview?
00:30:08
Speaker
Would you like somebody there with you that has no direct knowledge of this? These are the sort of things that I say are inserted into the old interview process. We're not reinventing the wheel. We're saying this person needs to be treated differently. What can I insert into my process that gives them that autonomy and that control? Breaks. You don't tell them I'll take a break every hour. You say whenever you want to have a break, let me know.
00:30:40
Speaker
Would you like anything to drink? Something like that. Okay, so you're giving them control at every turning point in the interview. Who pays for all this?
00:30:54
Speaker
Right now, me. and And frankly, when I say right now, um it it isn't something that is going to be a heavy burden on me. It's mainly the time.
00:31:05
Speaker
So I already have all the equipment. um What is going to be problematic is if somebody said, i am in St. John's, Newfoundland, and this has happened, then I might try to find somebody that they could be referred to that could be a part of the project and follow all of the strict guidelines that I have and be a good interviewer. But if they are local, I can go to them And if they, and I mean lower mainland, for instance, if it doesn't involve anything other than the car ride, but I can also do it over Zoom, for instance, or MS Teams.
00:31:45
Speaker
Sounds like some partnerships in the future to be established with how people might be able to access this service. So that brings me to
Accessing Forensic Services and Survivor Autonomy
00:31:55
Speaker
if someone is listening or maybe there's a forensic nursing service who is thinking, wow, this would be really cool to integrate or to at least have these resources available to let our patients know about, this might be right for me. um What's the first step to take? How would we take that first step?
00:32:14
Speaker
Well, I'm going to give you, um I don't know if you want it right now, but I can give you the, ah I have an email address that is ah totally dedicated to this program. So it doesn't come through to my Gmail address. um ah Somebody can call me as well. i I will have my number out there and I do.
00:32:35
Speaker
um but I would prefer it to start off possibly with at this point anyway, because I'm not working with other people um or agencies that somebody gives me a quick email, it will come through alert me and then we can work on it from there.
00:32:52
Speaker
And it starts with the explanation. Is it right for you? Do you want to do this? And then we'll proceed. We'll set it up in the future. um In a perfect world, I would love to see emergency wards.
00:33:05
Speaker
I would like to see hospitals that have my number and a document. um And for instance, groups like rape relief and and women's shelters so that somebody can go, oh that's what it is. I'm going to give Bruce a call and we'll figure this out together.
00:33:25
Speaker
So that's where the next steps are. Right now, it's just me, though. You can give the email if you like, Bruce. And we can also link that in the show notes. Good. I'm going to have to find it.
00:33:40
Speaker
Just hang on one second. I will do my part then. So for the audience, we will link Bruce's email information in the show notes if you want to contact him, whether you are a coordinator of a forensic service or you are part of a victim support organization or you are a survivor victim yourself and you think this might be right for me or I know somebody who needs this information. So go ahead, Bruce, tell us your email address.
00:34:09
Speaker
The email is altogether three words, amberflowerprojectatoutlook.com. And that would be the best way to reach me ah because it is anonymized. Thank you so much, Bruce. Just as we finish up here, I want to reintroduce Bruce Pitt-Payne, who is a retired RCMP major crimes investigator and an interview specialist with decades of investigative experience. Bruce, thank you so much for sharing not just your knowledge today, but the compassion and clarity that you have behind it.
00:34:45
Speaker
Thank you for doing this. You know, the work you're doing offers survivors something really incredibly meaningful, and it's a way to hold on to truth without being pushed into decisions that people sometimes just are not ready to make. So it's a reminder to all of us that documentation can be gentle, protective, and entirely survivor-led.
00:35:03
Speaker
And to everyone listening, if violence has touched your life or the life of someone you love, please hear this. Your timeline is valid. Your readiness is your own.
00:35:13
Speaker
There's no deadline on healing. There's no expiry date on your story. And there's no single right way to move forward. What matters is that you have choice. You have options. And options that honor your pace, your safety, and most especially, your autonomy.
00:35:29
Speaker
Thank you for spending this time with us today, Bruce. Thank you for your curiosity and for your commitment to understanding the realities of Canada's forensic front line. For everyone listening, we'll be back soon with more conversations that shine light, challenge assumptions, and center survivors every step of the way.
00:35:46
Speaker
If you have recently been hurt or assaulted, stalked or harassed, please seek medical care at your closest emergency department, connect with support services in your community or your local police.
00:35:57
Speaker
I am forensic nurse practitioner Hannah Varto, and once again, this is Beyond the Rape Kit, Canada's Forensic Frontline, a podcast by the Canadian Forensic Nurses Association.
00:36:08
Speaker
Thank you for listening. Stay safe.