Transcript
Speaker: I do think we're in this world right now where everyone wants to shit on the mainstream media. People feel it's a bit stale and people feel like it's not actually speaking to them and not able to go past headlines with enough depth to really tell a lot of stories and particularly LGBTQ stories with the nuance, the specificity, the complexity, the sympathy, with the skepticism, with all these things that good LGBTQ stories demand. I think it's a really complex time for traditional media. i think some places are doing it better than others. I don't think all mainstream media sucks.
Speaker: Hello and welcome to Power Beyond Pride, a weekly queer changemaking podcast bringing you voices and ideas from across our fierce and fabulous spectrum to transform our world.
Speaker: I'm Daniel W.K. Lee, poet, author and part-time sticky rice. And I'm Kate, the hard femme and hoopiering enthusiast. And we are your co-hosts for today's Queer Cash Journey.
Speaker: On today's episode, we're going to be talking to Spencer McNaughton. Spencer is an Emmy-nominated and Gracie Award-winning producer and the founder and editor-in-chief of Uncloseted Media. Welcome, Spencer. It is absolutely lovely to see you today.
Speaker: Thank you, Kate and Daniel, for having me. I'm really excited to be here. I know you recently celebrated about a year ago, the a full year of Uncloseted Media. What was it or what is it about the media landscape that made starting uncloseted media is so imperative to you?
Speaker: Yeah, no, that's a great question. Well, I'm from Canada originally and came to New York 11 years ago to study journalism at Columbia's grad program there. And then I worked in mainstream media for over a decade. So at places like 60 Minutes and The Wall Street Journal.
Speaker: And in those years, I also did a lot of documentary storytelling and I covered a lot of far right extremism and white supremacist groups. So I embedded with groups like the Ku Klux Klan, the Boogaloo Boys, the Michigan Militia, even terrorist groups like Atomwaffen. And I really witnessed a lot of manifestations of hate, ah white supremacy, anti-Semitism, etc., etc., etc. But then over the years, I started covering America's anti-LGBTQ ecosystem for other publications like Rolling Stone.
Speaker: And realized that those groups are arguably more insidious because unlike a lot of these white supremacist groups who are typically made up of lost little boys in basements, the anti-LGBTQ ecosystem are made up of very powerful, very well-funded, very well-educated Christian legal groups and other kind of Christian extremists who actually have the resources and the education and the intelligence to roll back our rights in real time.
Speaker: and i realized that In these mainstream newsrooms I was working in, it was like moving a mountain to get an LGBTQ story past the finish line. They're always down for one in June because it's Pride Month and maybe you get another one to here or there. But there were so many times when I was pressing my editor saying, this is really important. We need to tell this story right now.
Speaker: And it's nobody's fault, I don't think. It was just the news cycle so relentless. You often have executives and editors who don't really get it. And for those reasons, I knew the mainstream wasn't cutting it.
Speaker: And then I did a survey of the queer media and still in 2025, the vast majority of it is still for profit. So you just can't do rigorous investigative journalism on a for profit model, I don't think.
Speaker: You make more money by having an intern whip up a listicle of the 10 hottest gay guys in New York City than a month long investigation. So I just really recognized there was a gap in storytelling and a much needed gap to fill as it relates to critical reporting about the queer community in America and particularly the forces looking to, you know, upend our rights and freedoms in this country. So I after I realized that green men go and it got into fundraising mode, creation mode and eventually launch mode. And yeah, now we're a year out, a little over a year out and really proud of what we've built.
Speaker: That's what's fascinating. And i want to pull on a couple of things you were talking about, about for-profit media, how things are shifting and the way that the landscape is really changing. And especially around media and news and like where we're getting our information from. So I'm curious, what do you see as the role of kind of more traditional journalism right now? And why why was that so important in particular, especially knowing how we're just we're getting news from so many different places in so many different kinds of ways?
Speaker: I'd love to kind of hear where you where you think ah traditional journalism really sits in that. Yeah, I mean, traditional journalism, I think, has a worse, let me say put it this way, has a worse rep than it deserves right now. I think we're in this space where you're either all in for independent journalists or all in for mainstream media and nothing can exist in between. Don't get me wrong. Working at Wall Street Journal in 60 Minutes prepared me to do uncloseted media. Journalism is bulletproof. The story selection I don't always agree with, but they really have standards and practices that are old school scientific methods in terms of how to do journalistic storytelling.
Speaker: Wall Street Journal's opinion section, I don't include in that bucket for the record. Right. So I do think we're in this world right now where everyone wants to shit on the mainstream media, and I don't think it's completely fair. I think there's some exceptions. CBS News hiring Barry Weiss would be one of them. But I think it sits in a space where where people feel it's a bit stale and people feel like it's not actually speaking to them and not able to go past headlines to a with enough depth to really tell a lot of stories, and particularly LGBTQ stories, with the nuance, the specificity, the complexity, the sympathy the sympathy, with the skepticism, with all these things that good LGBTQ stories
Speaker: demand. And I think that's for a few reasons. I think because there's not enough LGBTQ representation in mainstream meat newsrooms. But I also think because you're still fighting for a mainstream audience, you know, places like network news are still trying to hit the Midwestern mom who's watching 6 p.m. news. Right. So I think it's a really complex time for traditional media. think some places are doing it better than others. I don't think all mainstream media sucks. I think that's a really bad kind of almost ideology that has kind of taken hold of many American folks and actually many people in the queer community, honestly. But I think there's a lot of room for improvement, just like I think the independent media has many imperfections as well. So I have a very kind of not a one plus one equals two view of it, I guess. Like the media landscape, I i mean, obviously it really, really changed. I worked at Out Magazine for a very short period of time and definitely in that day, it like it was that niche of of gay media hat was, well, actually was starting to fade out.
Speaker: I remember we were Our competition had started, became like Details Magazine and like GQ because our kind of like how we were positioning ourselves, at least to advertisers, was kind of towards these mc mainstream publications that were also becoming more expansive in their coverage, being definitely more queer, right? Like Jim Moore or AgiQ and a myriad of queer editors at at at details in a period of time.
Speaker: That's kind of it Side quest on that conversation, but but news media has obviously is has changed as well in that there it's it's we're not relying like mainstream viewers aren't relying so much on broadcast journalism to deliver to their living rooms the news that they want to hear. Individuals are.
Speaker: going through better for worse social media, TikTok, et cetera, following individual organiz organizations or journalists, sub stacks and that kind of thing.
Speaker: What has been your kind of experience or your thoughts on being able to really have to be able to rise to the top of that kind of very like super democratic, like ecosystem where they're so it's actually so prolific. And because readers have actually to a degree go towards like move towards the news source rather than having it delivered to them.
Speaker: how are you finding like the challenge being in a and ah ah new news media organization to kind of reach those audiences? Yeah, it's a great question and a really a hard, challenging thing to do because the media is so fragmented and so oversaturated with a million voices and media literacy, especially in America, is so low.
Speaker: So most people don't really know the difference between journalism by The New York Times and journalism by Joe Rogan. or not journalism by Joe Rogan. You get these loudmouthed, charismatic influencers who like to claim their journalists are telling you the news or telling you like it is. They have zero background in journalism, right? You wouldn't go to a barber who's never cut a head of hair before, You wouldn't go to a doctor who's not gone to med school. Right. And there's for some reason this space in in the journalism field right now. I think it's because folks have been told by the highest, most powerful people in the country not to believe news that you have a fragmentation where everything is competition for journalism. And it shouldn't be that way. You can have competition for influencers, but there shouldn't be the prolific competition for the journalism space when 98% are people with zero journalism background. So that's just a grievance I err.
Speaker: And I think something we should really focus on if we want to continue to live in like a well-informed society. But growing audience is extremely difficult. We're of small nonprofit with operating budget of $500,000 a year, which is absolutely fractional to other LGBTQ nonprofits. We're a team of four.
Speaker: And so we don't really have any marketing budget, right? So the strategies that have worked for us, though, because we are nonprofit is that for me, the way we continue to sustain ourselves is through philanthropy, right? And the way to sustain ourselves through philanthropy is by proving that we're having impact. So one thing that we have is called the Uncloseted News Network. So we have about 50, five, zero editors on a listserv.
Speaker: And every week I send the email out to those editors and say, Hey, here are our two stories of the week. You're welcome to republish them for free. Right. And we actually want that because we want to create exponential reach for our stories beyond our native subscribership on Substack or on Instagram. And that's really been amazing. And some of our stories have been republished by a dozen publications, which is fantastic. Right. Really amplifying the the journalism. And then Instagram is our other blog. Then you have to play on Instagram, too. And we found that youre really consistently doing breaking news in addition to posting let meat and potatoes of our stories in five to 10 carousels has really worked. And also partnering with influencers. So famous drag queens like Peppermint or Ben de la Creme, they really care about our work. So a lot of these places want to amplify our investigative journalism and understand we don't have budget and just collab with us.
Speaker: that And then we also have partnerships with Gay Times and them who republish most of our stuff. And we do those kind of Insta collabs as well. So it's it's it's ah it's it's not a one size fits all. It's not so obvious. I feel like it would have been 20 years ago if we were doing this. But at the same time, it means you can create something like Uncloseted Media and it can exist because there's so many other small, medium sized things that can work.
Speaker: And yeah, we what we would need to be nonprofit. That's key as well. I love the way that you're that you see this as really kind of fitting into an ecosystem. and And yeah, it's a network of information. It's a network of of actors and influencers, which I think speaks so much to how we should think about these things and and how much we should be kind of hearing these different voices. So that's really cool.
Speaker: I was curious. There's so much happening. That's the most diplomatic thing I can say ever is like there's so much happening right now. I'm curious. Are there any stories that you're like, oh, we I want more people to pay attention to this one?
Speaker: The stories that we've already published or that we are set to publish? Either one's up to you. Oh, gosh, there's so many. I mean, I think every single one, obviously.
Speaker: But the ones I think that are really important to look at are the power and the groups behind what's happening. Right. So, for example, we all are aware that there's a new push to overturn gay marriage, Obergefell. Right. Most of us know that the person who's trying to do that at the front of it is Kim Davis, the Kentucky County clerk who's been trying to do it since it was legalized in 2015. Most of us don't know that the Christian legal group representing Kim Davis is Liberty Council, which is a notoriously and horrifically anti-gay group that has a track record of not just pushing certain laws. They're extremely ideologically bent, very far right. And their leader has said things akin to gay people are pedophiles, akin to gay people are demonic. And these like as far right Christian you could imagine, that's what this group is. And I think that should be on the cover of The New York Times. Do you know what i mean? Like multiple times. We should know that really loud and clear all the time because that's not normal. If we want to live in a society with some semblance of gay rights, which I think when you look at opinion polls of Americans, most people actually do, right?
Speaker: I think we're misinformed to think it's this religious freedom nuanced argument when it's really just disguised bigotry and homophobia. And I think like those so those pieces like we did that investigation to Liberty Council, those types of things I'd love to get more eyeballs on. But really all of them, because we have so many good human centered stories. We did a piece about the Trump administration shutting down the LGBTQ youth crisis lifeline for the suicide line. And we actually interviewed a lot of the kids who had used that lifeline.
Speaker: Very tough read, but very powerful to see the faces behind the policy that's getting snipped. Absolutely. Well, we have to take a short break here, but please stay tuned to this episode of Power Beyond Pride, where we're in conversation with Spencer McMillan.
Speaker: Welcome back. This is Power Beyond Pride, a queer change making podcast. And I am Daniel W.K. Lee here with my co-host, Kate DiAdamo. Talk to Spencer McNaughton. It seems like every day and that we're hearing something in the media that attacks LGBTQ people, gender affirming care, same sex marriage, etc.
Speaker: From a media standpoint or a media producer standpoint and journalistic standpoint, what do you think LGBTQ people should be doing or doing more of to counter the kind of prevailing narratives about trans rights, marriage equality, et cetera, et cetera?
Speaker: but It is so hard. I mean, for me is as a journalist, it's really just telling the stories as truthfully and as thoughtfully as possible. If that means we have to criticize our own community on certain things, we should be honest about it. and We should be always reporting exactly what science says, exactly what methodologically sound evidence-based research has to say on things. I think sometimes you get, at least from the political sphere, Democrats who have no clue what their message is. when it's guys just look at the research, find out what science says and doesn't say and go with that. You're supposed to be the party of evidence and science. So just go with that. like it It shouldn't be that hard.
Speaker: So I think there's like a lot of just bad messaging, at least in politics from obviously, I would say the Republican Party, because I think that is just more fueled by animus and then just confusing, confused messaging and mixed messaging from the Democratic Party.
Speaker: From it as a journalistic perspective, though, I mean, there can be all the hate in the world. That's not going to change the kinds of stories that we will output and how we'll tell them. I don't believe that journalistic balance is defined along partisan lines where a lot of made media outlets think the idea of a good story is a Republican soundbite and a Democratic soundbite divided by two. I think that's so problematic and such bullshit. So yeah I actually don't get that stressed by how to do it because I learned the science of journalism. I really believe there is a science to journalism. And even if the story is complex or personal or whatever, I always trust in that science where you're just telling the actual story in a way that is reflective of what evidence has to say. Right. And just because you're a politician or you have an R or a D next to your name does not make you an expert on everything. So I think... like
Speaker: There's that kind of nuanced perspective that I have when it comes to journalistic balance that I think a lot of media just doesn't actually follow. And they're either not taught to follow it that way or They just know it will get more clicks if you make it more controversial, like it's an us versus them thing, which I think is not good either. Angertainment does well, but I don't think that's the way we're supposed to be doing journalism. And I think that's another reason you get all these kind of, like I said earlier, loudmouth influencers who do really well, but don't know what journalism is.
Speaker: Yeah. Can I just follow up really quickly on that? like Do you think that there's an element of kind of being, i don't know, like afraid? And this is kind of a PR thing in a way of like riek like recalibrating the message and being like what you're saying. yeah i mean pretending like I'm on a,
Speaker: a television show or something like that and just saying ah you're proposing and you're you're you're constructing a narrative that isn't true like why aren't more people saying you're trying to drag the public ah down this narrative road that is just that is that is built on a falsehood, right? And you, like, I think about Pete Buttigieg, actually, we talked about him before and, like, how he was maybe out of just not, just being out of his depth, like, going down this road of of like trans athletes and
Speaker: and being like, oh, maybe there's a fairness question or whatever when that's unfounded. Like, why why why do we seem to be ah like allergic to be like, no, no, no, I'm not going to go down this road. What you're saying is like, the framework is fucked and we have to we have to stop talking about it in this way.
Speaker: Yeah, that's that's hard because this is based on the science. There is differences when it comes to trans women and girls in sports. And I think that's, in my opinion, something that's A lot of advocacy organizations, a lot of people in the queer community have, and this is a controversial opinion, have not been open to even discussing the nuance that much.
Speaker: And I actually think that's screwed people over quite a bit because there are differences at the end of the day. There's heart size, there's lung size, there's height, there's wingspan. There are things that a lot of large advocacy organizations will not say. And it's extremely uncomfortable for me to say that because in my personal life, I'm an absolute advocate. But I think i think it's really complicated.
Speaker: And I don't think the way that Buttigieg or the way that Newsom went out and did it like that is the right way to do it. But I think there needs to be some room for some kind of conversation about it, at least. you know And the way it's happening right now is just filled with animus, right?
Speaker: But i what I would like to see is the four scientists who study this all day long, the physiological elements, talk about it on a panel. But if you have a panel ever about trans women in sports, it's ah paul two politicians, right? So I just think, again, that's why and think it's so complicated. Yeah.
Speaker: I would actually love to to keep kind of digging on this a little bit, especially and especially around the issue of coverage of trans bodies, the state violence, structural violence, community violence against trans people.
Speaker: and And especially thinking about... like I feel like you can't talk about media in this issue and not talk about the New York Times and the New York Times showing up, I think, nine times in the Supreme Court decision overturning rights, compromising health and safety.
Speaker: And so I'm curious, do you think that media outlets have responsibility for the impacts of some of these conversations? Yeah, because I think we need to be absolutely telling it based on evidence, based on truth. I think some a lot of places do it horrifically with the trans community and are attacking, weaponizing, monstrifying the trans community who are the most marginalized demographic group in our society right now. And we need to be calling that out every time. So I think the responsibility is to do fair journalism and do evidence-based journalism. And it is, it can be complicated, but a lot of it is just filled with animus and hate and lee looking to stoke fear kind of thing, right? So I think the responsibility is to tell every story fairly. And it's, it <unk> sure, it's complicated, but that's our job is to tell complicated stories with nuance and with depth and with rigor, right? And it's not always comfortable.
Speaker: Absolutely. I'm going to pivot really quickly and to kind of get your analysis on something also pretty recent and a little bit on the kind of broadcast side. Obviously, The Trump regime and the man child himself acts like so free speech is something earned.
Speaker: Or perhaps a better way is putting putting it is that it's solely the providence of people aligned with him. And he's fully prepared to use the FCC to kind of curb protected speech, as indicated by what happened with Jimmy Kimmel.
Speaker: what What is what's your analysis of that whole episode and what do you think that means for broadcast television television journalism? I mean, it's scary as shit. but but It is really scary because he's not only suing ABC News, suing CBS News and there's battling. I think both of them settled. i believe I know CBS did. He's also suing the Des Moines Register, like a tiny little paper in I think that's Iowa, right? Yeah. So it it is very terrifying to know that somebody that powerful is weaponizing these his power to take advantage ah and muzzle the media just when he doesn't like a story you do. And if you look at our website and we talk about LGBTQ rights fairly, if you cover LGBTQ issues fairly, he doesn't look that good because he's a bully to transgender people and non-binary people and actually LGBTQ people at large. And I think
Speaker: There has been such an effect in mainstream media, particularly of, oh, we need to have both sides. So there's a massive false equivalency now where on CNN you'll see, you know, my friend who's like a trans Navy vet, right? They passed the military ban, right? And she was asked to go on CNN that night and she did. She went on Abby Phillips show. Right. And she went on with five other people.
Speaker: Two of them were far right Republicans. The other there was another kind of, I think, centrist, two Democrats. None, I believe, who had served. None who were transgender. Right. So there's like just an absolute kind of, I think,
Speaker: either trying to appease what they think the American populace wants, but also trying to appease the Trump administration. Because I think there's now a fear that he's going to come after them. And if there was a panel, which in my mind, if it were booked effectively, you would have had four trans person people, maybe two cis people on a panel about trans people getting banned for the military. Should be more than one. And I think people are now acting out of like fear because of the administration. and That's one thing.
Speaker: As scary as it is, like I mentioned, I'm not from this country. Even if there's fears I have about, you know, various things. and ah But that's the reason uncloseted media exists. So there have been times when big forces have tried to bully us out of doing a story. and we've been grateful for pro bono legal support. And Knockwood have been signed fine so far. But I would be lying if I didn't say it's a very scary time to be doing journalism right now. Especially when you see just videos on the street of people in Chicago being like,
Speaker: cuffed on their chest. That is not normal. That is not a democracy. That is not what America is supposed to be. I'm i'm really tired of people saying this isn't who we are, because I think at this point it it kind of is, you know what I mean? But I don't think it's what most Americans want. So, yeah. Sorry, that was a rambling answer, but that's kind of my thought.
Speaker: No, that was a great answer. And just to shift a little bit, I would love to ask a personal question. So how has your journey around being a queer person informed where you are today and the work that you do today?
Speaker: Oh, gosh, that's a great question. That's a great question. um I mean, it informs everything. I don't think I could do it if I wasn't gay because... Because gays are magical? Because gays are magical. Absolutely. ah Yeah. I mean, I think it informs a lot of what I do because of, of of especially the human-centered stories, because I think anyone, and I recognize I'm a i'm a white, cisgender gay man who came from a relative amount of privilege in a liberal city of Toronto. Right. Right. So I recognize all that still wasn't easy. So I think everyone who's in the LGBTQ community has felt what it means to be an underdog at some point and felt what it means to be kind of struggle and be marginalized and using all of that personal experience when interviewing people.
Speaker: Whether that be folks in our community that we sympathize with or the people trying to upend our rights, they help me in both ways because they get me fired up if it's somebody trying to take away the rights to really do the research and ask the right questions. And then you can also lead with compassion when you're interviewing somebody who might be struggling.
Speaker: And I told you I'm in my boyfriend's house right now. He had a completely different upbringing, raised in an evangelical family in rural Virginia and was left his home at 17 and moved to New York on food stamps and has no contact with his parents. And he's actually publishing an essay that I'm so proud of him for that's going to publish on Saturday about how he really made it here in New York and overcame a lot of religious trauma.
Speaker: But it's the people I've met, too, who inform it. It's like the queer family, the chosen family that I've had here who inform all of the storytelling and how to do it. Absolutely. Well, we have to take a quick break right here. Stay with us ah and we'll get back for our speed round of questions with Spencer McNaughton.
Speaker: Welcome back to Power Beyond Pride, where we are talking with Spencer McNaughton from Uncloseted Media. I'm Kate, and I'm here with my co-host, Daniel W. Kaley. So to start off, what is one piece of advice you can give to someone who's listening to this episode and who is thinking about pursuing their dreams and telling queer stories?
Speaker: Ooh, I would always say this is so cliche, but the sky's the limit. Whatever you imagine, manifest it, manifest it, manifest it. You can do it no matter where you are, no matter what resources you have. Make a plan. If it's a 15 year plan, believe in yourself and do it. I used to play competitive tennis and never believed in myself. And I think I could have done really well. And now I do believe in myself and I'm proud of myself for that and want to keep going. So keep going. You can do it.
Speaker: And find people who believe in you as well. Find those people. there's going to be people who will say no, but find the people who believe in you. So you're saying that you could still be on the ATP tour. With torn meniscus and herniated discs, I'm not too sure about that.
Speaker: ah As a great cheerleader was the end of that sentence.
Speaker: Okay, now it's time for our speed round of questions. going to ask you some questions. ah try not to overthink it. Let your your your lizard brain answer the questions for you. Are you ready?
Speaker: Let's go. I'm ready. I love it. Awesome. Beautiful. All right. What's one thing you're looking forward to tonight? Frozen margarita. I love it. Love that. Especially on a Wednesday.
Speaker: Don't judge me. No, no, no. I live in New Orleans, please. yeah That's a every every everyday kind of thing. What's your favorite comfort item for sleeping?
Speaker: Ooh, like 19 pillows and Sean's service dog. i 19 pillows? Is there room for anything else? No.
Speaker: No. I'm ensconced. I'm not even kidding about the 19.
Speaker: Pillow fort. Pillow fort. Yes, literally. Yes. Favorite Halloween candy? o Reese's peanut butter cup, probably. But i'm more savory, so any kind of kettle chip is pretty good, too. so Salt and vinegar, or jalapeno, that kind of thing.
Speaker: I would have loved that as a kid, more savory kind of like snacks. Hell yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What's the most adventurous thing you've ever done? Ooh, probably after I graduated undergrad, backpack through Southeast Asia and different part and went to Australia too. But I'm not that adventurous. So like, I feel like it's kind of basic, but it was fun, sort of. I was also scared because i was alone. So I was just like, yeah, I have high anxiety, know?
Speaker: That's legit, though. That sounds fantastic. Yeah, cool. Or embedding with the Ku Klux Klan for two weeks for a documentary. that I think... There you go Might win. Yeah. Because I wouldn't fuck with that.
Speaker: A favorite drag race contestant. Ooh. Oh, Bob the Drag Queen, because I did a little short documentary on her for Time Magazine eight years, and she gave me a pair of her high heels, and they're in my living room still.
Speaker: Oh, my God. That's rad. Have you read a new book yet? No, but I should. mean, yeah. I do listen to Sibling Rivalry all the damn time, so I feel close to her in that regard. What is a quote that deeply resonates with you?
Speaker: o it's It's so cheesy. so Stop saying I wish, start saying I will. i don't even know who quoted it, but yeah I think just go do it. So many people live in the moment of like, let's whiteboard, let's do it. Just get up, go do it.
Speaker: Sky's the limit. Kind of back to the first answer, as cliche as it sounds. Perfect transition. What's your karaoke song? Ooh, I hate karaoke. I like listening to other people do it, but I don't love karaoke. I really don't like it.
Speaker: If I had to do one, probably like Blink-182 or something. i don't know. I'm like really embarrassing myself right now. What's a specific event or moment that ignited your passion for activism?
Speaker: For, oh, the first, what what made me apply to Columbia Journalism School was i live with 10 young women in undergrad. And one of them, one of the my good friends divulged that she was a, she'd been date raped in the back alley of a nightclub.
Speaker: And she wanted me to interview her for TV McGill and interviewed her. Such a compelling testimony about how the police didn't do enough and it went completely viral through Canadian media and had a real impact and was shown in law schools for consent.
Speaker: So a little darker answer, obviously, but it was so powerful. And she talked about how the experience demystified the power of the from the perpetrator for her. So I'll never forget that. Wow.
Speaker: That sounds fascinating. Who do you look up to? I look up to a lot of people. I look up to, actually look up to all my staff, even though they are lot younger and I feel like a geriatric millennial at this point. But i'm I'm so proud of the work they've put in and the kind of dogged reporting. And I've asked them to do a billion different things with fundraising and everything. And so I look up to them. I'm inspired by my boyfriend and everything he's gone through. I'm inspired by my mom and everything she does. So I don't know. I look up to a lot of people.
Speaker: That's amazing. love it when you really admire your your your colleagues, your comrades. And so finally, your our last question, what does power beyond pride mean to you?
Speaker: Power beyond pride? Power beyond pride. That's an interesting thing. I never even thought about the the saying power beyond pride to me.
Speaker: When I think about it as a catchphrase, power beyond pride, I think of using more than the pride that you have to ignite change, to ignite stories, to elevate the people who might not have as much privilege as you in the queer community or but beyond, right? There's something that I hear that catchphrase and I think of the underdog and uplifting voices that we don't always hear from and just making people who are struggling feel just a bit better And I think that's what we try and do with Uncloseted Media is every story, if it can affect one person who's struggling right now, one of those kids who's rejected by their school, small town, church, or family who doesn't feel safe in their bedroom, we've done all that and then some. And that, I think, would be what I take from Power Beyond Pride.
Speaker: Excellent. Excellent. And finally, where can people file to you and your work? Yes. Unclosetedmedia.com. That's our sub stack. And you can subscribe. We put nothing behind a paywall so you can subscribe for free and you are welcome to upgrade to paid if you like. And we're on Instagram and TikTok as well at Uncloseted Media and Blue Sky as well at Uncloseted Media.
Speaker: That's awesome. I just want to thank you so much for being with us tonight, for taking time to do this podcast and hope that you will join us again. We'd love to have you back. Thank you so much for having me, Kate and Daniel. been really fun.
Speaker: Thank you so much. Yeah, this has been a wonderful conversation and really appreciated all of your insights and all the all of your answers. Everyone can follow Spencer at unclosetedmedia.com and on Instagram, TikTok, and Blue Sky at unclosetedmedia.
Speaker: I'm your co-host, Kate, hard femme and hoop earring enthusiast. You can follow me at reframehealthandjustice.com and at homoductionfemmes on Instagram. And I'm your co-host, Daniel W.K. Lee, poet, author, and hot guy contrarian. And you can follow me at strongplum on Instagram and upscrolled.
Speaker: Remember to subscribe and get your friends and lovers and neighbors to subscribe to to Power Beyond Pride on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And check out our website at powerbeyondpride.com.
Speaker: Power Beyond Pride is a project from A Great Idea, queer-owned design and content agency. Learn more about them at agreatidea.com. This episode is produced by Shane Lucas. Maddie Bynum is the project developer. Our editor is Jarrett Redding with support from Ian Wilson.
Speaker: And we're both part of this podcast's awesome host team, and we invite you to send in your questions and comments at powerbeyondpride.com. And check out our new episodes each week. And we look forward to queer changemaking with you next time. Thank you from all of us at LAR Beyond Pride.
