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Ep.30: How To Create a Sustainable Garden When You Have Limited Space with Chia-Ming of Coastal Homestead
1.8k Plays6 months ago
Have you ever wondered how you can practice sustainable gardening in a small urban space? In this episode we are joined by Chia-Ming, a Los Angeles-based food-focused landscape designer. Chia-Ming is here to share her journey of going from corporate finance to a flourishing urban homestead.
Chia-Ming shares her expertise in blending culinary and floral beauty seamlessly, drawing from her upbringing cultivating rare Asian fruits and vegetables alongside her mother in Taiwan. Her passion for sustainable gardening led her to found Coastal Homestead in 2020, where she empowers gardening novices to become green-thumbed enthusiasts through innovative design and personalized mentorship.
In this blossoming conversation, Chia-Ming discusses the challenges and joys of urban gardening, the importance of soil health, and the unique aspects of coastal gardening, including dealing with powdery mildew and implementing biocontrol methods. Join us as we delve into the complexities of disease management in plants, highlighting the need for vigilance and responsible gardening practices.
Tune in to this episode as we explore the intricacies of growing food and flowers in small spaces, sharing valuable insights to inspire you to cultivate your own source of beauty and sustenance. Don't miss out on this engaging conversation that will leave you with a newfound appreciation for the art of sustainable gardening.
In This Episode You’ll Hear About:
00:01:16 - Chia-Ming's Background in Cultivating Rare Asian Fruits and Vegetables
00:01:38 - Transition to Sustainable Living and Urban Gardening
00:01:59 - Passion for Growing Exotic and Hard-to-Find Edible Plants
00:02:10 - Discussion on the Science of Gardening and Soil Importance
00:02:38 - Chia-Ming's Urban Gardening Space and Challenges
00:08:07 - Importance of Soil Testing for Backyard Gardeners
00:10:18 - Chia-Ming's Urban Garden Setup
00:11:59 - Year-Round Growing Season and Challenges
00:12:36 - Appreciation for the Growing Process and Gardening Journey
00:14:02 - Chia-Ming's Diverse Garden Overview and Projects
00:33:10 - Biocontrol Strategies in Gardening for Pest and Disease Management
00:42:08 - Discussion on Disease Control in Dahlia Cultivation
00:48:56 - Considerations for Disease Management and Plant Health in Gardening
Shownotes: https://thefloweringfarmhouse.com/2024/07/23/ep-30-coastal-homestead-small-urban-gardening/
Learn More About Chia-Ming and Coastal Homestead:
- Website:https://www.coastalhomestead.com/
- Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/coastal_homestead
- YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@coastalhomestead
Sign up for our newsletter: https://thefloweringfarmhouse.myflodesk.com/nlw4wua8s3
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Transcript
Introduction & Podcast Overview
00:00:02
Speaker
Welcome to the Backyard Bouquet podcast, where stories bloom from local flower fields and home gardens. I'm your host, Jennifer Galitzia of the Flowering Farmhouse. I'm a backyard gardener turned flower farmer located in Hood River, Oregon. Join us for heartfelt journeys shared by flower farmers and backyard gardeners. Each episode is like a vibrant garden, cultivating wisdom and joy through flowers. From growing your own backyard garden to supporting your local flower farmer, The backyard bouquet is your fertile ground for heartwarming tales and expert cut flower growing advice. All right flower friends, grab your gardening gloves, garden snips, or your favorite vase because it's time to let your backyard bloom.
00:00:53
Speaker
Welcome back to another episode of the Backyard Bouquet podcast.
Meet Chai Ming Ro: From Finance to Urban Homesteading
00:00:57
Speaker
Today, we're delighted to welcome Chai Ming Ro, a Los Angeles-based, food-focused landscape designer whose innovative approach to gardening blends culinary and floral beauty seamlessly. Growing up, Chai Ming cultivated rare Asian fruits and vegetables alongside her mother, learning the value of sustainable gardening through repurposed containers and a network of family friends. These early experiences ignited a lifelong passion for growing exotic and hard to find edible plants. After a successful 17-year career in corporate finance,
00:01:34
Speaker
Chai Ming founded Coastal Homestead in 2020. Driven by her commitment to sustainable living and urban gardening, her company transforms gardening novices into green-thumbed enthusiasts specializing in combining culinary and flower gardens to creating thriving, diverse spaces. Through innovative design and personalized mentorship, Chai Ming empowers others to cultivate their own sources of food and beauty, no matter their skill level. When she's not transforming urban spaces or crafting new gardens, Chai Ming loves cooking up new recipes and spending quality time
00:02:11
Speaker
with her husband Patrick, their two boys Evan and Griffin, and their dogs Kira and Bo. Chai Ming, it's so good to have you here with us today. I'm excited to dive into your journey from finance to flourishing fields of your urban homestead. Welcome to the podcast. Thanks, Jen. I'm so excited to have this chat. I know we've had plenty of DMs and we've had lots of conversations, but to really dedicate time to just talk about what we love. I know I love this opportunity to chat flowers with fellow garden friends like
Gardening Techniques & Personal Experiences
00:02:44
Speaker
yourself. So if you don't mind, would you give our listeners a little bit of a background on who you are and tell us a little bit more about your experience growing up cultivating rare Asian fruits and vegetables with your mom. Yeah. So you did a great overview of who I am, what I do now. and
00:03:06
Speaker
I think I described myself as a lifelong gardener and it really started because I was an only child for nine years until my siblings came and it was my mom and me. That was it. So we didn't have a lot growing up and especially coming from Taiwan. I was three when we came there. And also back then here in the States, it's not like there was a ton of nurseries. And even now there are not a lot of certain Asian vegetables that are probably I would say a day-to-day vegetable there is not the same here. So for example, something like bitter melon. It's an acquired taste. It actually is bitter and that's why it's called bitter melon, but it's something that is a culinary acquired taste that the people who love it really, really love it. And actually it grows really easily here.
00:04:01
Speaker
once it starts but it doesn't take any cool weather. So I know that's a different challenge in different zones. So it's things like that where we can really learn hands-on from a very DIY kind of experimental ah point of view and we would get a cutting from one plant to from a family friend to another. I have a guava tree in my backyard that is actually the descendant or actually a piece of cutting from a guava tree. That's my mom's friend that brought it over on a plane on a branch for their tree. So their mother tree was yeah, so it's like passed on. And I think there's so much only plant people truly understand and appreciate that. Wow, this plant, if it's a named variety, right, we all know this as plant people that it's actually probably like a clone.
00:04:58
Speaker
right, of the mother plant. And it's to think about how many generations and how many people did that plant go through and the story behind it, it it's a different layer of appreciation once you understand that. Oh, I like that. that is That's a really great way of thinking of it. And how neat that there's that history that goes along with it as well. So have you always been in Los Angeles since moving to the US? No, so I lived in Iowa for a little bit. And I think about a year, I was very little, right? So probably three to four years old, then South Carolina for, I think, four and a half years, and then Massachusetts, Brooklyn, Newton area for three and a half years, and then Southern California since the middle of sixth grade, and we moved to Orange County. And then in college, after college is kind of when I moved into l LA with work and everything like
00:05:52
Speaker
My dad's a scientist. And so and it is a big influence in when it comes to gardening to take more of a scientific approach. And so that he I've grown up with him always in the lab doing science experiments, controls, A, B, all that stuff like that. So. Can you give us an example of how you use science in the garden?
Science & Strategy in Gardening
00:06:16
Speaker
So for example, I think, as you know, as a farmer, your soil is the most important thing. Like if you could only touch one lever of the entire, how do I take care of a plant? You would probably pick the soil lever because that's basically, I try to tell my clients that that's basically the same as the food we put in our own bodies. And obviously there's much more nuances to it. But one thing that I've noticed is a lot of
00:06:49
Speaker
People who come to me, they say, I don't have a green thumb. I can't do this. I can't do that. And it's because they just think, I can go buy a bag of fertilizer, dump it in, and I'm good. But it doesn't work that way. We know that. So that's where the science part comes in. It doesn't have to be in a petri dish. It doesn't have to be to that extent that I need a lab for. But at least assume some scientific reasoning, right? Like, OK, if I planted flowers in this one plot, then most likely it used up the nutrients that it needed to make the flower. So theoretically, at least, those nutrients are going to be less. And then you can go get a soil test to verify that, right? So that's kind of where I like to come from. Now, when it comes to growing vegetables that I help my clients in their backyards here, there's a little, you don't have to necessarily go to that length.
00:07:45
Speaker
because your goal is to grow food for your for yourself. It's not necessarily attached to revenue that you would need for cut flowers. So with that, I use the more scientific theory and like thought process versus you have to do a sign ah soil test every time. So you mentioned most of your clients are growing in their backyards and you're helping them grow vegetables and flowers. And you just spoke about soil tests. Do you recommend that backyard gardeners soil test as well? It depends. So if you are going into gardening and you're going to use raised beds, I would say you don't have to.
00:08:33
Speaker
necessarily a soil test at least the first season because you're starting something brand new. Theoretically, if you buy good soil or good potting mix that is already approved or it's like you already know that the company is reputable, then I think you don't have to do a soil test. But if you are curious and you have the budget, absolutely. Now, if you are going to go in ground Yes, you should definitely try. But sometimes in backyards, especially here in like an urban environment, I like to ask the client, I turn the table back over, I turn the conversation back over to them and I ask, how long have you lived here? Sometimes it'll be either brand new or they've lived here 20 years. Well, in that time, has anyone fed that soil? Has anyone done anything with that soil?
00:09:31
Speaker
Or maybe they just removed concrete. Most likely it's probably void of all things. And then maybe you don't have to test at that point. You can just kind of think that it's going to be a blank slate. So it really depends on, and that's why we do a consultation. We help our clients really assess what the next step is. Is it a soil test or can you skip because you just know that there's not a whole lot there? Sure. I always say kind of the same thing with raised beds, especially if you're bringing in quality soil, like a 50-50 blend that's already been tested and has the appropriate nutrients added to it. Yes. You yourself, are you growing on a large plot or you have an urban garden as well? I have a urban garden. So my entire plot is my house.
00:10:26
Speaker
on it too, right? So my property is 5,000 square feet. That's it. And that includes my house on it, and it includes my garage on it. So I just have some in the front space and then some in the back. So we've gotten very creative. We grow hydroponically, vertically, you name it. It's also something that it like almost scratches my brain a little that I get to try something new. And how many plants can I really shove in here and still be able to take care of it and then also be fruitful or productive. So can you produce enough fruits and vegetables and cut flowers for your family on your 5,000 square foot lot? I think the answer would be no, only because the time element of it.
00:11:19
Speaker
now If I had all the time in the world, if I didn't have two young children to run around, absolutely, I could make it work. But because I do have kids and they are in a very active stage of life where we have baseball practice and baseball games and, you know, XYZ, getting them to school, all of those things, that takes up my ability to actually be in the garden and to actually produce. Now, Is it possible to grow a lot in a small space? Absolutely. But we have to be really mindful of how we message that because the time element is such a big, big factor. That's a really great point. It's easy to overplant and then not have the time to harvest all of it. I think I grew 15 tomato plants last year. That's a lot.
00:12:13
Speaker
Like you, I have a business, which is my flower farm. And I have a nine-year-old just like you. And shuffling around between everything we have going on and trying to keep the business afloat, I wasted so many tomatoes that I just couldn't harvest. So this year I planted, I think, five tomato plants, which is still probably too many. um But I scaled back this year. Yes. Yes. I think I actually prefer the growing part of the whole gardening situation. Because someone was like, wow, you're so passionate about gardening. And it's like,
Urban Gardening Challenges & Innovations
00:12:51
Speaker
I don't know if I would say that. I'm very passionate about sharing the benefits of gardening. I'm very passionate about finding new plants. I'm very passionate about planting.
00:13:03
Speaker
But when it comes to like reaping all the harvest, I'm like, OK, that's cool. I did it. It's like, oh, I'm successful. And I actually really like to share what I've grown more than necessarily using it. I do use it, but. Once you harvest, you have to then figure out how you're going to use it. So that's like a whole nother process of, okay, what am I cooking? How am I cutting it? What recipe? And then how am I going to store it? When is it going to be eaten? It's like a whole nother calculation on top of I just grew this thing. Totally. So tell us a little bit more about your garden.
00:13:46
Speaker
You have 5,000 square feet in your total yard yeah or into your whole property, including your housing garage. Yes, edge to edge. Do you grow in the ground? Do you grow on race beds? What is your setup like? All the above. Right now, it's completely upturned because I just finished a really big project called the Pasadena Showcase House and all the plants came to my house or not all, but a lot of the plants came to my house. And so because I also design and install, my house tends to be my place of work. So if I have extra plants or I'm holding plants for an installation, that's where they live. And I watch them and I nurture them until they're ready to go. So right now I am actually working with Monrovia to do a really small cottage corner. And we're talking probably like
00:14:44
Speaker
nine feet by 12 feet. And that's just be my little cottage garden. And so when I walk out my front door, I'll have this beautiful little section that I can have cut flowers from. And it's enough for me to have like a bouquet or a few bouquets a day. And then we're talking big bouquets, right? And in there, we're going to put peonies, we're going to put roses, we're going to put um Veronica, cranes bill. So there's going to be some cut, some not cut, but just to let it. Digiplexis is a favorite one of mine right now. And I just want it to be pretty when my neighbors walk by because right now it's a dumping ground. I have blueberry bushes everywhere. I have hydrangeas everywhere. And so I'm actually going to do a blueberry hydrangea hedge in the front of my house.
00:15:36
Speaker
because the blueberries will flower in our like cooler weather winter. And then I'll have berries. I even have some blueberries right now. And and as you know, hydrangeas need acidic soil, so do blueberries. And so when I plant, and when I plan for my clients, we try to match plants with similar needs. Because if you don't, that just makes it harder for yourself. So that is the front hedge of, so literally the front hedge, what I'm talking about is the base of my house. And then there's like a little flagstone path. And then there's my future cottage corner that's happening hopefully this month. And then on the other, the right side, if you're looking at my house, the right side, little front section, it's probably about 13 by nine. I have some raised beds and that's where I have all my dahlias. Well, not all of them, but some of them.
00:16:30
Speaker
I have a lot. I have tubers that I have. Confession time. I have not planted everything. Now, my half is very small compared to what your half is because you are farming. But like I have singles of different varieties. You probably have multiples. So but I probably have at least 50 to 70 tubers that have not touched soil yet. And they're just they're in. It is a lot because I don't have that space. Um, so that's just the front yard and in the backyard, I actually have, we bought this house in 2019. We said, we're going to live in it for a year and then we'll renovate. Well, we know what happened. Everything shut down. We still have not renovated. And so the backyard is mostly concrete actually. And it's nice for tidying up, right? You can just hose it down, blow leaf blow it. However, I can't grow in the ground.
00:17:27
Speaker
in majority of it. So I have, if you can imagine, from the front yard, you go down on the left side of the house, it's a long driveway all the way down, then there's a a garage, two car garage. And behind that, I actually have a chicken coop with a small chicken run. And I know. So when I say when I maximize every corner, it's literally, there is no exaggeration about it. So in the chicken run, I actually have a double cattle panel arch that has two grapes growing on it. And so right now it's covered in a blueberry grape and a well Zen lollipop is the name of the two. And it's their third year. So I'm finally really getting crop. And I also have a lily koi passion fruit that's taken over the top of the chicken coop. So they get plenty of shade.
00:18:21
Speaker
And I don't think I mentioned it, but my part of Los Angeles, I'm actually right by LAX airport. So if you ever go by LAX, you're basically at my house and I'm a mile from the ocean. And I looked it up because we're going to have this chat. I was like, wait, let me see where I'm at exactly. I'm a hundred feet above like sea level. um So. Yeah, I'm right there, practically in the water. So when we talk about coastal influences, things like that, we have huge marine layer. And I think that's why, like, I know you're passionate about dahlias. So the reason why I think I can get away with not having them planted is it's really like the weather's really cool here. I don't get above 80 very often, maybe one or two weeks out of the entire year. So.
00:19:15
Speaker
And then I also don't dip below 45 very often. So that's kind of my window. You have a very long growing season, I imagine then. I grow year-round. Amazing. You name it. As long as it doesn't need tremendous chill um or tremendous heat, I can kind of get away with it. And um now along the edge, so past the chicken coop, I have about six feet from the edge of the property, the wall, and that is straight to the ground. So I have, let's see. In the ground, I have a lemon tree, an avocado tree, a lime tree, a wax apple tree, a guava tree, and then also a loquat tree. So we're rounding the corner now. And then have plot everywhere I Have you had the sumo oranges? No. Big, big oranges.
00:20:13
Speaker
So there's Shiranui is the Japanese name and if there if you ever see it in the market, grab one. It's basically like a giant easy to peel orange tangerine type and it's easy to peel. It's really sweet, super juicy, one of my favorites. So when I saw that I could grow it, I grabbed, I grabbed three and just gave my mom one ah because I have too many. have fig trees, I have dragon fruit. And if you haven't noticed, I try to plant based on the things that are harder to purchase at the market, because I don't have a lot of space. I want to maximize my effort. So dragon fruit, for example, is anywhere from five to $10 a piece. So if I can grow a few, then and they actually grow really well here, then I'm going to do that. And then
00:21:04
Speaker
My wax apple and the guava, you don't see them very often in markets at all. And so this way I can get that fruit. And right now I i have also have a berry section and raised beds. And um yeah, i
Coastal Gardening & Space Management
00:21:22
Speaker
I have a lot. And then we're actually putting a greenhouse back there. It's basically the greenhouse that was from Pasadena's Showcase House. It's coming to my house. um I've been going back and forth with, do I rip out this concrete? Because the concrete down here, at least construction costs and deconstruction, I guess, in this case would cost anywhere like 10 to 15,000 because of disposal fees. And it's like, well, do I spend 10 to 15,000 just to remove the concrete before putting soil before any of that? Or do I put that towards growing just on top of it?
00:22:02
Speaker
So I actually have raised beds on concrete too. And I know it's really odd. Most don't even think you can do it. But as long as you don't mind that the concrete might get stained or that as long as you go tall enough that gives the, the in terms of raised beds, it gives the plants enough space for their roots, right? And it also gives the soil enough time to drain out at the bottom. because when it's sitting right on concrete, it's a little bit more challenging. It has nowhere to go except for out the edges. So yeah, that's kind of the nutshell of my space. I also have a room where I have an indoor, do you call that like a grow tent? So yeah. For germinating your starts and everything. Yes. So that's where all my extra tubers that don't have a home are just kind of staying in good
00:23:01
Speaker
care in that sense because it's a little bit more climate controlled. It doesn't dry out, things like that. Gotcha. I found a whole crate of divided Cornell bronze tubers. I think I found another hundred yesterday. I was like, wow, it's July. I don't think I have time to plant these. What am I going to do with them? and What will you do? I don't know yet um because I'm so limited on space this year. and Here you have 5,000 square feet. I have yeah a quarter acre that I'm growing on this year that's um separate from our house, which is small for me because I just went from an acre to a quarter acre. And I've pretty much maximized every um inch. I made myself this year. Normally I have 36 inch rows and I have, is it 18 or 12 between some of my rows? i I'm going to be literally like, um,
00:23:57
Speaker
like walking sideways down the roses, the plants grow this year. um yeah But I always think where there's a will, there's a way. So I'm sure I'll find somewhere to put them, maybe in some grow bags. Yeah, no, definitely. I mean, this is confession time. I actually have accidental pot tubers because I had started, yeah, accidental more because I like, i did i put I started tubers in these four inch and some one gallon, some pranks, whatever I had handy. And I never planted them and they just stayed in there and they're coming back. So I have the 50 or so tubers in the grow tent. And then I have the, I would say maybe 60 or so in a four inch, the accidental pot tubers.
00:24:49
Speaker
um And then I have some that are more precious and they're already in and growing. So of course, all the KAs, the brand new ones from Stonehouse, they're in there. So they're just starting. I think I planted them, what month? we're We're July now. So I planted them in June, which is late. We actually can plant in the fall. So technically I could pop these extra tubers up. I could nurture them and just wait for the summer, the July, August kind of the path, then put them in when it cools down a little in October, November. And I might actually try that and just see what happens because I know we were going to talk about, you know, this is a good segue into like, what are the different challenges would say if we were to say you growing dahlias and me growing dahlias in our different zones.
00:25:44
Speaker
And for us, I'm coastal, so it's a little bit easier. But for anyone even five five miles further in, it starts to heat up real fast. That marine layer really saves me. But even going inland, the temperatures jump like 10 degrees easily. And then you have the rest of California, which is like really far all the way in. And in hot zones, the dahlias can't take it. but um things to do for those who are listening that are in a warmer zone, doing stuff like pulse watering, where you're watering a little bit multiple times a day with your drip, that is very helpful just to keep the soil like an even moisture.
00:26:31
Speaker
um And then of course, shade cloth. I don't use shade cloth just because it's in my front yard, and that's not the prettiest. ah But yeah, those are probably some of the challenges. for growing here versus I would imagine where you are. Your environment sounds so pleasant compared to what I think of when I think of California because I think of California and I think hot and dry and you in desert. Yeah, you've got the inland or not inland, ah the marine layer.
00:27:06
Speaker
And what am I trying to say? The coastal atmosphere of where the marine layer comes in and provides that little bit of protection from the heat. I think you're actually probably cooler than we are. Yeah, it's like a cool blanket in a way. And it's fantastic for people. That's what I always say. But for plants, it saves us from the heat. But sometimes the plants grow better in a little bit of heat. And also what's challenging, it'd be interesting to hear what, if you deal with this too, is we have powdery mildew issues all the time, just because we have that humidity, we have that cool blanket that's in that perfect, it's in that perfect zone that powdery mildew loves to live, right? If you're over 80 something, it doesn't like that. So that helps you. Whereas if we stay just under 80, but above 60,
00:28:05
Speaker
That's happy powdery no do time. yeah So really paying attention to my soil, making sure my plants are happy that they're not stressed from drying out. All of that comes into play when we have to deal with that. We don't tend to get powdery mildew. I do a weekly or bi-monthly full year spray. I'd love to do it weekly, but I'm honestly probably more bi-monthly just based on time. um yeah But when I do that, I don't seem to get powdery mildew.
00:28:36
Speaker
should be knocking on wood. Hopefully this will be another good year yeah um until late season when the fall starts to set in and we we get some more of that, like the dewy mornings and the temperatures start dropping and there's more moisture in the air. But I think part of it for us is I'm in the windsurfing capital of the world and it's the windsurfing capital of the world because we have wind. And I think the wind, as long as, as long as I have air circulation, I found that I used to, and I'm, because I downsize this year, I hope I don't get myself in trouble. Um, I last year did a minimum of 12 inch spacing on all my Dahlias. This year, some of them are like eight inches and some of them are more like pot tubers, especially my seedlings. So they're super crammed in this year. So I'm going to have to really watch because the wind helps circulate the airflow for us. Yes. Do you get much wind?
00:29:28
Speaker
So yes and no. The way my house is situated, I'm actually on a hill, which is helpful, but the ocean breeze is behind my house and some of my dahlias are in the front of my house. And so the the house, in some ways that's good that it serves as, my house serves as a windbreak for when it's super windy, but then it also doesn't necessarily allow for a lot of circulation. Um, so I actually have planned that I'm going to actually, I'm going to shoot a video on me stripping down the lower leaves just to facilitate that. Yeah, that's such an important thing to do.
Learning & Adapting in the Garden
00:30:09
Speaker
Let's go back and talk about, you said that one of your favorite things is more the growing process versus the actual harvest of vegetables and flowers. Talk about what do you love so much about the growing process?
00:30:26
Speaker
I think the growing process is there's just so much promise that you don't, you just have so much hope. And that's before, you know, weather. That's before, uh, any of the challenges come, right? You're like, Oh yay, all the potential. And there's something about the, and then you, um of course you start growing and then your first hurdle is always this, like, Oh, what did I get myself into? Why did I do this? But I think as seasoned gardeners, you're like, okay, put my big girl pants on. Let's go. It'll be fine. And you get over it. And then each season you learn something new. And I think that's also why I like the growing part is there's always something unexpected, good or bad, right?
00:31:18
Speaker
But that prepares you for the next season and also meeting friends like you where we can share, we can talk about like what worked for you, what didn't work for me and things like that. And for example, a pleasant, really cool thing that I'm diving more into is biocontrols. And so last season, last year, I actually saw this teeny tiny little bug. It's white with like, I'm talking like the tip of your pen size and it looked like a little beetle and I thought, oh no, it's going to eat everything. What is this thing? And I started searching it up and I, and it came out, I think it was like, I don't, I don't remember the number of spots, but it was a certain number of spots, like 20 something spotted ladybug that actually ate powdery mildew.
00:32:11
Speaker
No way. There's a bug that eats powdery mildew and it naturally showed up in my garden. Okay, I'm not using any pesticides now because I don't know what's gonna like I need this little guy to come eat everything. And sure enough, it's eating a lot of the powdery mildew. And, you know, that was just based on me searching something on Google looking at some insect sites. But then I actually was at some ah gardening expo thing and there was a biocontrol company there and they sell beneficial insects and I said, hey, have you seen this bug before? And they're like, yeah, that's the X number of spotted ladybug that and I was like, wow, that's amazing. So yeah, I've been gardening forever, but last year because I was really honing in on do I want to be a flower farmer? And let me test it out in my front yard. Um,
00:33:08
Speaker
I was really paying attention to the health and the production of my flowers. And so I saw that bug. And I think that's kind of why, you know, again, like I said, it scratches the little in that, wow, I learned something new. That's super nice, super cool. I think only for plant nerds. I really appreciate it. Totally. I think I bore some of my friends or my husband when I'm like, Oh my goodness, I discovered this today. Or did you know that this can do this? and Like nodding their heads like, okay, can you talk to someone else about your plant? That's why we have each other. Totally. Um, I have a
Biocontrol & Pest Management
00:33:46
Speaker
question. Well, if you could clarify for our listeners who are not familiar with biocontrol, can you just give an overview of what biocontrol is?
00:33:55
Speaker
I would say in layman's terms, it would be using what's already naturally occurring in a way that's beneficial to your garden or your growing space, depending on if you're a farmer or, you know, it doesn't have to be a technically a garden. So I'm actually working with the California. It's a long name. It's the California pest disease. No, let me think. Uh, it's the California department. Oh, my gosh, I'm losing it. Oh, California Pest Disease Prevention Program. Okay. Okay. That's the whole thing. That's a long name. Yeah. Oh, wait, it's California Citrus Protect. Oh, my gosh, California Citrus Disease Protection Program. There we go. Sorry, that was really the I know it's like see all the letters, but sorry, I digress. So I'm working with that department. It's actually funded by the California Department of Ag.
00:34:51
Speaker
to protect our citrus because a few years ago, I don't know if you're familiar with and Florida citrus, it the whole industry was taken down by this one little bug called the Asian citrus psyllid. And basically, it transmits a disease called Huanglongbing. And that disease is fatal for citrus. And it's in California. And so we actually have quarantine zones and things like that. And They actually, I found this very interesting. I don't, we didn't really touch upon this part of my business, but I'm also a content creator and the, count this agency, this agency found me on Instagram and said, Hey, we're trying to reach homeowners to educate them about this citrus disease. Because if everyone was in this part of gardening boom that we saw after COVID,
00:35:50
Speaker
They buy their plant and they bring it home and they may not know how to care for it. And that's okay. But without knowing this education about this, you know, one pest, it can actually wipe out their own citrus, but it can also wipe out the industry, right? Because it's basically, we're creating a highway in our backyards for these bugs. And so it's really important to get the information out there. so people can say, like, be responsible gardeners. I think there's a, oh, I just buy the plant and that's it. Like, no, well, if your plant has a lot of pill powdery mildew on it, sorry, that kind of hops the fence with the wind, especially where you are. It just kind of flies and floats over to the next garden. And that's normal. That's what happens. But when we have this influx of really enthusiastic people who want to grow without the right amount of information out there,
00:36:48
Speaker
it can be a kind of a mess. So it's, um, it's really exciting for me to see governmental agencies actually using bio control to, you know, couldn't help combat this type of stuff. So there is a little fly or i actually, sorry, there is a little stingless wasp teeny tiny that actually lays its egg on the Asian citrus solid and when they hatch, the larva eats the bug. oh And so sort of that yeah it's kind of like, there's a lot of different wasps and bugs that do that to each other, but this is a very specific one. So I don't want listeners to think, oh my gosh, there's just gonna be wasps everywhere. This is a stingless, very specific, very targeted, and it's not just, they're releasing everywhere. So that's kind of where biocontrol I think is,
00:37:46
Speaker
not new in terms of strategy. It's always been around, but I think we can now have those conversations in our own homes. And if people are companion planting, they're already doing a form of biocontrol where they are inviting pollinators in to help, you know, not just pollinate for your food and your flowers and to create seed and things like that, but Those, the but beneficial bugs, their larva often eat other bugs that you don't want. So there's a little, you know, every garden, I like to tell my clients that you're building a little ecosystem in your own home. Totally. I haven't really slay bugs in a very long time. And it's amazing how many ladybugs I find in my garden. I mean, the other day I was looking at my apple mint.
00:38:38
Speaker
And the aphids always love my apple mint. And at the beginning of the season I saw, I was like, Oh no, I've got quite an aphid problem. And then I saw a ladybug and I said, I'm just going to watch this. It's not near my other flowers. So I'm not worried about it spreading yet. And there are so many ladybugs and then the, um, Oh no, I'm blanking on what they're called the larva. Oh yeah. No, the, the larva of the ladybugs. So when they had from the eggs, they look like a, I always call them like a little baby alligator. Yes. And I let one crawl on me. Uh, and it actually bit me. I didn't know they can bite. Yeah. It wasn't bad, but I was like, Oh, it's like a little pinch. Yes, exactly. I looked down on my arm and go, Oh, thank you. Yeah. But, um, it's neat how you can invite them in and they kind of take care of the problem without the sprays. I mean, I've been, I haven't had to spray.
00:39:32
Speaker
other than in my greenhouse um early season when I don't have beneficials. Probably in three years, I don't think I've had chemical sprays. I stopped using neem oil. I was using neem oil and found out that that can harm the beneficials. So they'll spray neem oil at nighttime when the beneficials aren't around. And it's like, well, they're always around because the bees are sleeping in my dahlia petals. Yes. And also there's all the nighttime pollinators that no one ever talks about because we as humans don't necessarily see them. So I actually stopped using neem, I want to say five years ago, only because I don't like the smell. I don't like the taste because of
00:40:15
Speaker
on all the edibles, right? it Like it tastes nasty on lettuce and to wash that, then your lettuce is bruised and you don't want to eat it anyway. So the only application for neem that I have occasionally still used is neem seed meal. And that's the byproduct of making neem seed oil and ants don't like it. So if you have issues with ants, because here in Southern California, our ground tends to dry out and that's perfect for ants because they're tunneling. They don't want a ton of water. So we don't get very much rain that would wash the tunnels. So for us, ants often move into raised beds and because there's ample food, it's nice and toasty because it's raised and they'll move in.
00:41:05
Speaker
But if you're growing flowers and you're trying to be protecting the beneficials, what do you do? I found that neem seed oil, I mean, neem seed meal, it's crumbly, or you can buy the cake for them and then crumble it. You can sprinkle it on the soil and it actually gets the ants to vacate. And unless the pollinators are crawling on the ground, which most of them don't, um and you can also mix it into your soil if you feel that it is makes you feel like you know you're protecting them a bit more. um That's what I've done for client gardens that were you know we come in, we refresh it because it's been a season and they neglected it. We put neem seed meal, mix it in there, and then the ants just vacate. So that's also one, that's an example as well. That's that's a great tip. You mentioned something that just a light bulb kind of went off.
00:42:03
Speaker
you were talking about the citrus plants in California and how so many people are adding those trees to their yards and it's creating this highway and maybe adding to the problem of the disease spreading. And it got me thinking it's kind of parallel to Dahlia's and Dahlia society, the Dahlia society could probably learn from the citrus industry because Dahlia's are having their time in the spotlight right now. And disease is also rampant. I had someone reach out to me last night on Instagram and they're like, could you please tell me honestly? And I love this because I get this question all the time. And this person said, can you tell me honestly, do you really get rid of disease plants because I'm seeing so many this year? And yes, I do get rid of if it shows a sign of disease, I get rid of them. But I think because so many people are not cleaning their shears or sanitizing or letting
00:43:02
Speaker
the pests get out of control, that disease is spreading. And until we can get some of that disease under control, the virus is going to keep spreading. So this is just my little plug for Dahlia sanitization. I sanitize between every single plant. I for a while contemplated treating each variety as a unit. And then I was like, no, because if a bug bites one, then I'm going to lose 50 plants or a hundred some varieties. I grow a hundred. I'd rather spend that extra time and sanitize between every plant. And the second a plant shows a sign of disease, it's gone. It's not composted. It's in a trash bag and I'm paying to take it to the dump because I can't risk that virus spreading throughout my fields. I told that person that reached out to me on Instagram, I threw away a thousand dahlias last year. And now they weren't all to virus, but, uh, some of it was because of the wireworm damage that I had in my soil, um, and the garden's some filings, which,
00:44:00
Speaker
most of the country doesn't even have to worry about those. But between that and virus ah last year, I was virus testing as a unit. So for example, if I had 10 plants of a variety and one tested positive at first, I just threw away the whole variety. And then I realized, oh, if it tests positive, I should test a second one. And then I found that it wasn't the case where everyone was necessarily virus because I am sanitizing. But i I think I accidentally threw away a lot of plants unnecessarily. So this year I'm throwing them out if I see signs. I think it's one of those you have to think about your appetite for risk, your budget, your potential of if you don't call what happens, like what is your potential loss if you aren't conservative and, you know,
00:44:59
Speaker
Not necessarily your case, but let's say a farmer throws out a thousand plants and let's say only half of those were diseased. So the 500 are the sacrificial, right? Plants. However, they could have the 500 that you did call because of that could have spread throughout the entire farm and then you've lost it, right? So it's really like hard to say. And I mean, it's to no one's fault, but virus testing is really expensive. So I actually haven't virus tested because it's too expensive for what I do and I'm not a farmer, right? So it's a little bit different. And I think that's also something to think about is how do farmers protect themselves, right? Because there's always going to be the big box retail so retailers of the world who are, you know, they're selling, right? And I have people who like,
00:45:59
Speaker
this And this is not knocking anyone at all or anything, but um when you walk by and you see a dahlia, you're going to fall in love. And you're going to say, I have to have this plant. And someone who's new to gardening may not identify virus. And especially like even dahlia experts, it's not that easy sometimes, especially if it's a healthy plant, it may not even show, right? So let's say it's at a nursery and then someone who has no experience with dahlias falls in love with the flower and is like, I have to have this. Well, let's pretend it's virus and they don't know. Let's say it dies. Okay. Well, that's it. I'm just going to throw it away. I don't have a green thumb. So there's that scenario, right? So what happens with that virus? Where did it go? What happened?
00:46:48
Speaker
There's just no way to really stop it. And I think you're right that dahlias are having a big moment right now where I see it at Costco. I see it at all the nurseries and you know, nurseries are businesses. Even yesterday I saw dahlias that were not taking well taken care of because we had a big heat wave. They're in pots. They need water three times a day if they're in pots. They just do. Right. And it's not happening. because it's a lot to run over nursery. So I saw some of these, they were mini dahlias. They were actually very cute. The flowers were maybe about an inch size and more landscape dahlia. But even if it wasn't diseased, it was definitely stressed. So when I see stuff like that, that nursery is still trying to at least recoup some costs. So it was like buy one, get one, right?
00:47:45
Speaker
so When you have business, when you need to make a dollar, right? You can do it for free. And when you have people who don't understand or know, and honestly, I think not even all farmers, how many brand new flower farmers are there this year? Last year. And everyone has a farming hats off to you guys. That is a huge, huge learning curve. Everyone needs to start somewhere. And you're going to just have to accept that there should be losses if you want to protect your future business. And I think, and I see this not just in dahlias, but in all sorts of plants. Someone will say, look at my tomato plant. It looks amazing. But they're only basing it off of the actual tomatoes that are ripening. They're not basing it off the overall health of the plant. So you have.
00:48:36
Speaker
a lot of misinformation or lack of information about like, whoa, your plant doesn't look so good. I don't really know how to tell you that, but that thing's got to go. and it's yeah Tomatoes very similarly to dahlias have a lot of disease too. And so like I was saying, it it creates a highway and my my neighbor, lovely people, they don't really know anything about roses and they had a climbing rose. It's now gone, but it didn't look great. And it was right on the edge of my house and their house. And I was like, Oh, but they, it already has rust on it. It has all these bugs on it. I'm just going to spray it for them because it's six feet from mine. And so what do I do? Right? The point, it's a really, it's a really hard line to define. And i so I think you have to, what are you okay with at the end of the night? So you don't, so you can sleep at night. Yes.
00:49:35
Speaker
That's such a great point because we all have different tolerance levels. And I think taking it into consideration your decisions and how they impact others, like you mentioned, like being on a very small lot. And if you see of a virus plant and you're okay with it, are you going to be okay with it if fit that impacts your neighbor and also kills their plants? How would you feel? So I think that's a really great mindset and a great way to look at the virus. Thank you for that. and it's Yeah. And it's less about like, I don't want to say it's less about saying, Oh, you're in the wrong. It's more about you empowering people to say, like, you have a piece of wanting to make the environment better. Right. Like we aren't helpless. We, it takes everybody to do one little thing and then we can make a movement. Right. But.
00:50:29
Speaker
We can't, we won't necessarily dump all of our plans. I actually did that two years ago. I dumped about, I want to say 90% because like you, I saw a few and I was like, this is just too much. I can't handle it. I just, they all got to go. Um, and that was rough probably easily for my small scale, easily $3,000 worth of tubers gone just because it started to look not great. And I. Like I was telling you, I have plants that are going into my client's gardens. And so they're they're quarantining at my house. They go from the nursery to my house. I have to make sure that they're healthy before I then pass them on. It's like holds with kids, right? So do you send your kid to school? Should you? right If they're a little runny nosed, okay, maybe allergies, maybe something fine, right? But if they're visibly not feeling great,
00:51:28
Speaker
I shouldn't send them to school because I could get the next kid. But everyone has different situations. So, yeah. That's great advice. It seems like your business has a very great foundation. You talk about the financial aspect and this putting on this kind of the CEO hat of your garden or your business. Do you think that your 17 year career in corporate finance has helped you with this business with Coastal Homestead?
Business Skills in Gardening
00:52:01
Speaker
A hundred percent. Like my educational training is in accounting. And so in accounting, when you take that class, if you ever did, you learn about this term widget and it's basically a blank, like a holder for you can, as long as you understand business,
00:52:22
Speaker
You can figure out the industry. You can talk to experts. You can read books and you can kind of figure that part out. But if you don't understand business, but you're really great at growing plants, there's going to be a disconnect of how do you make this work in terms of money, right? And how do you make sure you can still put food on the table or invest in the next crop for the next year or soil, right? Or amendments, things like that. so I definitely think having that experience really helps. um I worked in different industries as well. So I got to, I would be dropped into a different industry, have to learn the industry, learn that business specifically, and then try to figure out strategically, how do we cut expenses and how do we maximize profits? And so I was able, when I started my business, I actually worked my day job, which is, I was a finance director,
00:53:20
Speaker
And for nine months I did that while at night I was building my business. And in that time I actually build a model in Excel that said, okay, this is what I'm going to do. This is how much I'm going to make. This is how much it costs. And when I figured out that I could replace my six figure job doing what I do and freeing my time to be with my kids to drop off pickup. That's when I realized, Oh, I can do this. And so. when it comes to planning a client's garden, I find myself as a steward of their budget because the last thing I want is someone to say, I don't have a green thumb and throw money at me and fail because that's not allowed. like I'm gonna make sure that hell or high water, you are going to grow something and you're gonna be successful. And most clients, they start with me and then they're on their own. I can't even stop them. I have one client. she's
00:54:19
Speaker
i I've been to her wedding, her mom actually asked me, can you please tell her to stop buying plants? I was like, I can't. It's like, you ignite them, right? You get them really passionate about it and keeps going. So I'd say yes. Um, anyone who, you know, I don't have a horticultural background, but I now am in the biz and I think it's really important to Not if you have aspirations to get into agriculture or get into horticulture to not discount what you already know, what you already have done up until this point in your life, because everything is applicable. Like when I bring in these analogies of, you know, sending your kids to school, but that's, I'm talking about viruses at the same thing. So there's so many things that you can actually pull from and
00:55:16
Speaker
You have to empower yourself to do what we do. Absolutely. That was beautifully said. We have talked about a lot and I know our time is coming close to an end here. Before we wrap up, is there anything I haven't asked you about today that I should have that you would like to share with our listeners? I guess I would say that given that we are all likely plant lovers, flower lovers listening, is that there is a space to grow both your food and
Future Plans & Educational Content
00:55:52
Speaker
your flowers. I see that as a movement. I see that in sustainability. I see that, especially in l LA, I think we are with Hollywood, with events and things like that. As a pretty big industry down here, we see
00:56:10
Speaker
bouquets that are made from non-traditional flowers. I've seen tomatoes, I've seen mushrooms, I've seen as like a floral display or an edible display with flowers. And so I do think there's a small ripple that hopefully becomes even bigger where we marry that it's no longer, you know, indoor house people and Flour people and vegetable people because that's that feels that's kind of how it feels like even on socials right now um majority of my audience grows food because that's kind of what I started with but my If I didn't have to make money, I would be growing all the flowers because that's what I love and when I kind of introduced flowers My vegetable people. What are you doing? And so I want I
00:57:05
Speaker
My goal for me and a lot of the things I'm actually partnering with Monrovia to do this is I want to show how we can integrate plants and it doesn't have to be so black and white. And that's, for example, my blueberry hydrangea hedge. Well, the foliage is going to look great. It's going at least here. We don't believe don't drop off, but I'm going to have flowers. I'm going to have food. It's going to be beautiful. and it's integrated. So I i definitely think that's like an interesting little ripple that's happening. I love that. That brings me back to, I can't think of what episode number it was, but Stephanie Bittner from Homestead Design Collective came on when she released her book, The Fragrant Cutting Garden. And she has three different books out and one of them is on
00:57:57
Speaker
um planting vegetables and flowers in your garden and companion planting with them. and um As we're thinking of about the possibility of moving from here to buy and acquire more land to grow our farm, I keep thinking about some of the things you've said and what Stephanie said, and how great it would be to interplant those things and have them just be part of the living landscape that you can enjoy, but also have them be usable. like You had talked about so many fruit trees that one probably provides shade for some of that your shade loving flowers, but you're also feeding your family. um So I think that's really great. There is so much more that I could ask you about. um So we might have to save some of our conversation for another day. But for those that are, well, actually, let me ask this. Do you ever service clients outside of LA or is your primary target audience just LA?
00:58:55
Speaker
um My design and install in person is definitely in ah LA in Orange County. We sometimes go to Ventura County, but and not really outside of Southern California for the in-person design services, but we do virtual consultations and I am thinking about, I've been asked a few times of mentoring for small business because in my corporate day, I used to get a budget And then my job was to figure out how are we going to make money and be profitable. And that is a very important skill for any business. And I want to empower small business for women, especially because I don't think we have that support. And, you know, I have my 17 year career in, um,
00:59:47
Speaker
accounting and finance. And I also have an MBA in entrepreneurship. So it's these types of things that let me use what I have collected along the way to give other women a step up and help them because I can come in, I used to be a consultant, right? So I could come in and say, Oh, Don't do this. Do this. What about this? And have that conversation to have be the fresh pair of eyes to help someone like, Oh wait, I can do this. And then maybe it helps you untangle that knot or that circle that you've been, you know, going around and spinning. So that's something also that's coming. I love that. That's exciting. So for those of our listeners who are not already following you or connected with you, how can they find you?
01:00:33
Speaker
So I'm mostly at this point in time on Instagram and it's coastal underscore homestead. But I see the second half of this year. I'm really focusing on YouTube because I find that there's not enough good information out there that's free and concise and actionable. and And that's my goal is with my channel that I'm starting to post on more with long form is to say, okay, this is what I would do with the targeted. Um, I don't want to say problem challenge, and this is how we're going to solve it. And maybe we can do that in like a 15 to 20 minute video that, okay, now you've watched it. Now let's do it. Oh, I love that. And do you have a website also?
01:01:26
Speaker
I do. It's coastalhomestead.com. Perfect. Thank you so much. And we'll also release more digital products. Think Cliff Notes, if you're old enough. Think Cliff Notes for plants. So it might be one on tomatoes and there might be one on you know cucumbers. But because I said flowers are what I really love, I also want to do a kind of a warm season, or sorry, I'm going to release a hot zone type of hot weather growing for different cut flowers. So dahlias being one of them, where most people everywhere else in at least the US, they grow after the last frost. So for those of us who don't have frost, where's all the information there? And so I want to say over the last few years that I've collected, I want to publish that so people can
01:02:27
Speaker
grow more flowers. That's great. Well, Chaiming, this has been such a fun conversation and you've offered such great insights. And I know so many of our listeners will really resonate with what you had to say because I think most people listening do grow on a small scale, whether it be their backyard or a micro sized flower farm. So I think what you had to share today was super applicable and I really appreciate you taking your time to chat with me because I know this is a busy time of year with lots of garden installs and I'd love to keep the door open to have you back on the podcast again in the future. Yeah, thanks for having me and I'd love that. Well, thank you so much for being here today. It was really fun chatting and I'll look forward to to talking again soon.
01:03:15
Speaker
Thank you Flower Friends for joining us on another episode of the Backyard Bouquet. I hope you've enjoyed the inspiring stories and valuable gardening insights we've shared today. Whether you're cultivating your own backyard blooms or supporting your local flower farmer, you're contributing to the local flower movement, and we're so happy to have you growing with us. If you'd like to stay connected and continue this blossoming journey with local flowers, don't forget to subscribe to the Backyard Bouquet podcast. I'd be so grateful if you would take a moment to leave us a review of this episode. And finally, please share this episode with your garden friends. Until next time, keep growing, keep blooming, and remember that every bouquet starts right here in the backyard.