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PolicyViz Podcast Episode #2: Dear Data
176 Plays10 years ago
On this week’s episode of The PolicyViz Podcast, I speak with Giorgia Lupi and Stefanie Posavec about their current project, Dear Data. If you haven’t seen it, Dear Data is a year-long analog project in which Giorgia and Stephanie collect their...
The post PolicyViz Podcast Episode #2: Dear Data appeared first on PolicyViz.
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Transcript
Introduction of Guests
00:00:10
Speaker
Welcome to the Policy Viz Podcast. I'm your host, John Schwabisch. I'm here with two fabulous data visualizer people, I guess. Georgia Lupie, information designer, co-founder and design director at Accurate, and Stephanie Posovic, information designer and data illustrator. Welcome.
00:00:30
Speaker
Thanks for coming. Hi. Thank you for having us.
Overview of Dear Data Project
00:00:33
Speaker
We are here to talk about your very new, I don't know if it's very new, but it's a very exciting project. I know a lot of people are excited about it. I'm excited about it. Your Dear Data Project. Well, why don't you guys just want to describe it and then we can...
00:00:47
Speaker
Yeah. I can break the ice. Yeah, but yeah, do it, do it. So, Dear Data, it's a year-long analog data drawing project. It is an effort that the two of us are doing to getting to know each other through our data and through the way we draw our data.
00:01:07
Speaker
So since September 1st, we every week collect and measure a particular type of data about our lives on the same topic. And we use this data to make a drawing on a postcard size sheet of paper. And then we drop the postcard in the mailbox, sending it to the other person. So every week we would choose a topic, we don't actually give ourselves any specific direction of which data to actually track. And we do that on purpose because we really want to see what the other person comes up with, what she would track and how
00:01:37
Speaker
she would categorize the data about the topic to narrate the story of the week. Did you know each other before you started? I mean like I mean I'm sure you like knew at least of each other but like were you friends?
00:01:51
Speaker
Well, yeah, I think we both knew of each other because I know that you're going to talk about this later. We both start from a very similar space when we're creating information graphics.
Collaboration Origins
00:02:05
Speaker
So coming from drawing in a very analog handmade approach. And so it was when we were both at the IO Festival last summer where over a few drinks we thought that it would be really cool to
00:02:19
Speaker
to collaborate since I would venture to say that what we do within this community is relatively unique. Not a lot of people work in this way, so we wanted to explore that together.
00:02:34
Speaker
Yeah. And also, just to add something, Stephanie and I, of course, we are both designers sharing the same approach, but I am an Italian living in New York right now, and Stephanie is an American who moved to London. And so I think that also with the postcard, how could we exchange our drawings? Since I live in New York, Stephanie lives in London.
00:02:56
Speaker
sending each other a postcard seems a fun idea and a way to really also go back to the analog way of drawing with data.
00:03:10
Speaker
Our different way of approaching data as you're really trying to champion in like basically go as far against like what you would normally expect, you know, when it comes to creating data visualization as possible.
Role of Sketching in Design
00:03:24
Speaker
So like really embracing the analog and embracing this kind of laborious, very slow, small data approach. Right. Right.
00:03:31
Speaker
So I know you both do sort of bigger projects and have obviously all sorts of things going on. So is the analog world sort of where you both sort of start when you, you know, creating a bigger project? I mean, I usually tell my students like, start drawing first. But I find that a lot of people are like, I don't want to draw, I'm not a good illustrator. And I'm like, illustration is not the point.
00:03:55
Speaker
Grab a piece of paper and some pens. I think we both start with sketching. I mean, my process, even with digital designs, involves a lot of sketching. Also, a lot of going back and forth, looking at the data, looking for a visual vision.
00:04:11
Speaker
visual references of metaphors that can help me structure the data visually, and also then quantifying the data that we have in forms of draft and prototyping. And that can be, you know, you don't really have to be a good illustrator. You have to structure the information visually if you want to have a sketch that can help you going through the next phases. What do you think, Stephanie? Well, I would just say that I, I mean, the reason that I start with sketching is so
00:04:39
Speaker
I often find, and I think I've written about this on the Dear Data website, that sometimes trying to understand the data can be quite overwhelming and there's all these little aspects of a design that you really need to calibrate.
00:04:55
Speaker
and gets right and really focus on and so just by starting with pencil and really stripping everything back and limiting yourself like I find that means my mind doesn't get too bogged down in the finer details like color selection or typefaces or thinking about annotation at that time like just starting the basics strips that away it just clarifies it for me so
00:05:20
Speaker
Yeah, and also I think that in our world, data visualization, a very common approach is really to start with what the tools that you use being like to blow Excel or whatever else can provide you with and also what maybe you are more comfortable in doing with those tools.
00:05:36
Speaker
choosing the standard model that you're more comfortable with and the fact that when you sketch you have the data in mind but you don't have the data on the pen and so I think that this is a nice shortcut from your head and your vision to the way that then you structure the data and you can come up with more customized visuals and usually in a way visuals if you first you know
00:05:59
Speaker
You know, you draw and you wait and you don't pull in your data in your software or tools or whatever immediately. Yeah, that's a great point. I mean, when you use those drop down menus in Excel or Tableau or whatever it is, there's like a menu and you're sort of now you're in this finite box of possibilities.
00:06:18
Speaker
I mean, of course, thanks God that there are those tools and we overuse them. You know, it's just like that sometimes I think that starting a little bit before and with paper, it helps your mind to really realize what you want to do. Yeah. Cool. Very cool. So, okay. So you're sending postcards across the Atlantic. So what are the weekly, right? So what are the biggest challenges you've seen so far? You've done 35?
00:06:45
Speaker
Right now, 32. I think that we forgot to mention, maybe of course you will share the link to the project, but we forgot to mention that so each postcard, so the front of the postcard is always the data drawing, so like no text and no explanation, just a drawing that if you don't know that there is a data visualization, you might just think that it's a beautiful, well, hopefully beautiful drawing. And then the back contains the address and the how to read it.
00:07:12
Speaker
when where each of us like decodes her way of representing the data for the other. And so this is really a fixed layout thing that we shared at the beginning. So we were able to create a collection in a way. And on the website, we also each week add some qualitative notes, some data memories like featuring any hiccup with the collection or also background material. So yeah, this is the you know, the setup of everything. Right,
Weekly Project Challenges
00:07:39
Speaker
right. Yeah, I'll put a link to it on the on the site.
00:07:41
Speaker
Okay, and I'll put a couple images too because some of them Many of them are beautiful. So they're great. So is the biggest challenge trying to like? Figure out what date you're gonna collect or actually collecting it or actually like visualizing in a new way or what's the biggest? challenge you've had so far I'm
00:08:03
Speaker
I think for me, well, I think it's the integration of data gathering within your everyday life. Like, for example, and what we're tracking this week, I mean, I'll just tell you, Georgia, I'm tracking every hour. I'm tracking every hour as well. Yes. So I'm getting better at
00:08:24
Speaker
having that be part of my life but it's Thursday now and it's really starting to kind of make me a little bit stressed out. It's kind of intense so I mean there's that aspect of it but then I mean I think also a lot of it it really is just time-based because you know you have to find the time to look at your data and then you have to find the time to draw it and if you don't know
00:08:48
Speaker
If you're not happy with what you've drawn or if it just doesn't feel right, you know, you can end up starting over and over again until you get something that you're happy with. So it's like knowing like a product each week. Yes. It's a project each week. It's probably a day of work a week, which.
00:09:08
Speaker
Strangely, it makes me feel like I am invincible. I could basically do any project now because the fact that we've been able to fit such an intensive year-long project into our schedules, I don't know, means that you could probably... Probably just tackle anything. Do anything, yeah. So you said for this week you're tracking hourly. So what are you tracking each hour?
00:09:35
Speaker
Can we reveal the topic? Yeah. Yeah. So we're tracking sounds and the idea is sounds and noises that are around us to give the other an idea of our, I don't know, like, um, yeah, or how, yeah, of our surroundings in a way. Yeah. A different way of, uh, kind of tracking our week and like, kind of. Yeah.
00:10:01
Speaker
in a more subtle way than just saying what we're doing. Because actually, if you think about it, and then I also want to talk about what I found very challenging. If you think about it, these 52 weeks, challenging and featuring a specific topic every week are in a way building a sort of mosaic of our lives because you really tackle a topic at a time. And I agree with Stephanie that most of the weeks on Thursday and Fridays, we are just like really sick of the topic and we are
00:10:31
Speaker
I think I am so relieved on Sundays when the topic is over. But at the same time, on a positive note, it's nice because it's short. So even if Thursday we feel already overwhelmed, but at the same time we know that on Monday we will start with something else.
00:10:46
Speaker
And it's challenging to having your mind focused on tracking and tracking every single moment of the day and of the week. But then I also think that to me, it has become easier over time. So it's really like fitting more and more in my schedule.
00:11:02
Speaker
But I remember that we were talking about that over lunch, John. So another thing is like challenging ourselves to find new visual models every time, like every week, because of course we want to experiment with this project. And so, personally,
00:11:17
Speaker
realized that I found I find very easy to think about my data and this play my day in a chronologic or the order so it's very easy to read the data as you track them in the first place or your week you know timeline but as soon as I became aware that my mind was pushing me in this direction I have been trying very hard to change to change it even if it hard to reshape how your brain works in
00:11:40
Speaker
So I think I'm now looking for different ways of unfolding and classifying my data. It's puzzling but fun. And another thing that I really sometimes find very painful is that you can't undo. You just can't. So it's like so frustrating when the postcard is coming up nicely and you make a mistake. You either have to start from scratch or find very clever ways to work around it.
00:12:07
Speaker
But it's part of the whole thing and so it's good. The sound one is interesting too because if you think about all the wearable technology, a lot of the wearable technology is how many steps you take, maybe your heart rate, are you running, a lot of fitness sort of things. But I haven't seen a lot talking about our
00:12:29
Speaker
our personal environment of where we live and work. I mean, there's trackers of like where we are during the day, but that doesn't do what this sort of, at least this week is doing, which is like where we are in our, in our world and what, what surrounds us, which is sound really. I think, um, I think that, um, one of the things that we've been trying to do over the, like for each week with each topic is, um, we are intentionally trying to track
00:12:59
Speaker
aspects of our life that would be difficult to track electronically. So that requires this quite intensive level of focus and that can really only be gathered by humans. So we're just exploring these new spaces. So, I mean, I think a lot of that, you know, we are trying to get away from, you know, it's generally tracking things that wearables aren't tracking already. But that was a plan, I guess.
00:13:29
Speaker
Yeah, I think we really wanted to add qualitative stories to our data every week. So it's not only about measuring the number of activities that we do, but it's really adding feelings and emotions in a way to those activities, because it's just like a way to really getting to know each other, I think. And that, yeah, as Stephanie said, it was part of the plan.
00:13:51
Speaker
So when you're recording the data, are you also recording it like analog? Do you have little notebooks? Or do you use apps? Or how are you physically actually collecting the data?
Digital Tools and Self-awareness
00:14:02
Speaker
In the first week, we thought, oh, yes, we'll have these little notebooks and we'll gather everything by hand. But then we realized that was ridiculous. And so sometimes I have actually gathered. It depends on the best way for us that given week.
00:14:20
Speaker
I think generally we use a variety of tools that are found on our iPhones because at least you can hope. It's not totally socially acceptable, but it is kind of easier to integrate into your daily life and like having little notebook and a pen. Right. So there's a subtlety to it.
00:14:40
Speaker
But I mean, I guess should we talk about the apps that we use or? I mean, we really use I've been using reporter a lot. And I mean, like, I've just been using time tracking apps or just taking notes on my phone, or like taking screen grabs of your phone, like your phone screen. So just anything, anything digital. Yeah, I
00:15:09
Speaker
Sometimes I think what I have realized is that this is also an exercise in finding the most effective way to efficiently capture data because I tend to have this issue where I gather data in a very laborious, handmade way that's very mentally taxing when there are actually easier methods out there that I haven't really used.
00:15:35
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I think that, yeah, I also use Reporter, but lately I think that when I have already very clear questions in my mind about how to gather the data and so what to ask to my weekly collection, I can use Reporter. But when, at the beginning of the week, I'm not very sure about what's interesting in my data. I usually take notes on evernotes. And so I really just like log in everything with also some details that maybe I want to use in the end. And then I categorize data like,
00:16:04
Speaker
after the week is over. So I think it depends on whether I already know exactly what I want to know about my data or if I am just like, okay, exploring the topic and I'll see what my data will tell me later.
00:16:18
Speaker
And I think that you can tell that our approach is a bit like the difference in how we gather data, because I do it the opposite way around, or I try to think about what I want at the beginning to make life easier for myself when I'm collecting. But then George's cards are always infinitely more detailed than mine. So I finally figured out what she's doing here. And I'm like, oh, so that's how she has all of this information.
00:16:47
Speaker
It's just that I'm a compulsive obsessive person. I need to record everything. I feel like I miss stuff and so I over detail my postcards. Have you found, are you learning things about, I mean you're learning things about each other obviously, but have you learned things about yourselves as you collect the data?
00:17:11
Speaker
It seems like if I was, like I did this little experiment on WNYC has a podcast called New Tech City. They did an experiment where you're supposed to track your iPhone use. And when you do that, it's really illuminating into like what you're doing with your phone during the day. So over like 30 weeks, you've tracked a lot of personal information. Are there things that you've learned about yourself that like you didn't realize you were sort of doing or? I mean, I think that
00:17:37
Speaker
I speak speaking about myself I learned to be aware like just I'm more aware and I see dear dear I have a very as a sort of self investigative project I learned that so many things happening in our daily life and we totally don't pay attention to them so I basically I learned to pay attention I think and and also
00:18:06
Speaker
I'm not capturing any data right now though. You'll be here for posterity.
00:18:15
Speaker
So, yeah, I mean, I think that to me, it is especially useful to really learn to pay attention and also to, I think, identify some areas or some topics that I might want to improve. I mean, I don't think I changed, but yeah, I think I identified areas that I'd like to work with and on. Interesting. Yeah. That's cool. Yeah.
00:18:43
Speaker
How do I notice how I change or how is it affecting me? I think I notice a lot of, it's only a week of, it's like a week's texture. So it's not like I'm, you know, coming to any grand conclusions about myself. As a project, I would say I realized that I need to be as organized as Georgia. I say this like every week. But yeah, I suck in this idea of awareness. And
00:19:12
Speaker
I think it has made me realize how often you go through life and you've got your phone in your hand or you're not really looking at the world around you because you're mainly focused on the digital, you're focused on Twitter or focus on work.
00:19:29
Speaker
yeah I don't really pay attention to anything in my city like just even just listening to the sounds is illuminating because I've never really stopped to focus and think about the noise that I the noises I hear as I go about my day so I mean they're small things but and then I also think that um I mean it's not really from the data but I think
00:19:52
Speaker
this weekly drawing of data has made me think about what part of the data visualization process I'm most interested in. I find that over time I've realized that the part that I really enjoy the most is often
00:20:11
Speaker
the drawing aspect, the coming up with visual systems and less about like the data analysis or the data insight. And so it's brought new questions and like, well, you know, where should I go next? And, you know, where can I extend myself creatively?
Stephanie's Joy in Data Visualization
00:20:27
Speaker
Because I never, I've never really thought about that. That was my main, like, main joy that I got out of it. So.
00:20:36
Speaker
Well, I could sit here and talk to you guys about this all day. It sounds fantastic. I look forward to seeing the other 20 some odd weeks, so good luck to you both. Thank you. Well, thank you so much for coming. Thank you. This has been the Policy Viz Podcast, and I will see you all next week. Bye-bye.