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Ep. 29: Abbott Called It Antifa. Texans Called It a Saturday. (What's Next for the No Kings Movement)
55 Plays13 hours ago
This week, we're sitting down with Shelby Evans, the lead organizer behind Austin's No Kings rally, to find out how the movement actually works, who's showing up, and what comes next.
Shelby breaks down the nuts and bolts of coalition organizing — the eight-week runway, the open call for artists and musicians, the trilingual programming in English, Spanish, and ASL, and the 80+ organizations that ran out of paper at their sign-up tables. She also explains why No Kings is a movement, not a moment — and how every rally is a funnel into sustained, local action.
Plus: Alex makes a big personal announcement, Kate shares a family celebration in El Paso, and Shelby drops her drag name.
In this episode:
- How No Kings National and local orgs coordinate — and why decentralization is the point
- The "show-upocracy": why showing up is the backbone of organizing
- No Kings 3 by the numbers: 8–9 million participants nationwide, 100+ voter registrations in Austin alone
- Why the movement is pivoting toward May Day and labor solidarity
Follow & Connect:
- Hands Off Central Texas: handsoffcentraltx.org | @handsoffcentraltx on all platforms
- League of Women Voters: lwv.org (find your local chapter)
- Shelby Evans: @shelbyhaeve on all platforms (Miss B. Haeve)
- Mission: Texas on social: @missiontexaspodcast
Support the show: Love what we're doing? Become a member at patreon.com/missiontexaspodcast — just a few dollars a month keeps independent Texas media alive. And if you can't spare the cash, a five-star review goes just as far. God bless Texas. 🤠
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Transcript
Introduction to Mission Texas and Austin Rally
00:00:00
Speaker
Howdy. This is Mission Texas. A political podcast about winning Texas by 2032 or else we may lose the White House for a generation. I'm one of your hosts, Alex Clark.
00:00:13
Speaker
And I am Kate Rumsey. Other podcasts may focus on the day-to-day the next election. But we are keeping the eyes of Texas on the bigger prize. What happens after the next census?
00:00:27
Speaker
All right, Abbott called it an Antifa rally. Texans called it a Saturday. Millions showed up nationwide for the No Kings protests. And right here in Texas, organizers were making it happen from the Capitol steps to my backyard here in North Texas.
00:00:43
Speaker
Today on Mission Texas, we're sitting down with a woman who is done waiting for change and she's building it herself. Y'all, this is what a resistance looks like. So let's get into it. Welcome to the podcast.
00:00:54
Speaker
The organizer behind the Austin rally, Shelby Evans. Hi, thanks for having me. All right, I have a of the gate. Okay, it seems to me.
00:01:05
Speaker
really hard for me to organize a family dinner with just the people I'm related to. ah It's like herding cats, let alone mobilizing thousands of strangers. So can I ask you right out of the gate, how did the No Kings rally start? How did it start in Texas? And how did you get involved?
00:01:23
Speaker
So No Kings happened in the face of unprecedented authoritarian overreach. The fact that our neighbors, ourselves, were being impacted every day by these sort of wild, wild and and horrible actions of this administration.
00:01:44
Speaker
And i think it's natural for Texans that we're not exactly quiet about things. It's not like us to just stand So the way I got involved was simply showing up.
Origins and Organization of No Kings Movement
00:01:55
Speaker
I'm a pretty active person in my community.
00:01:57
Speaker
And I like to be a helper. Most of the people that i organize with are the same way. The whole Mr. Rogers look to the helpers. I really feel that way in my community. And so we also call this kind of work a show ofocracy. People that show up on a regular basis are the backbone of organizing. And another big part of the work is making it accessible to people. So there's really specific things we do in Austin to encourage participation across the board, especially for people who are new to showing up to a protest or a rally or getting plugged in in their community and try to demystify the process of standing up for justice. So that's how we kind of, you know, philosophically arrived at this moment.
00:02:42
Speaker
Can i ask, though, how do you get connected to the broader like national movement? And then like how does Texas fit into that? The No Kings National will call like the day. They'll call the date. And then local different organizations on the ground at the local level will pick it up. A lot of it's indivisible.
00:03:02
Speaker
um For Austin, it's hands off. But also we collaborate with the the League of Women Voters, Austin area, as well as Indivisible Rosedale Huddle and Indivisible Austin. So it's a bunch of different groups and just whoever can pick up the mantle of organizing, you can shape that national day of action to accommodate what's happening for you.
00:03:21
Speaker
and So in Texas, that looks a bit different than probably you know Wyoming or or Vermont. The things that we're talking about, the way that we're talking about them is going to look different.
00:03:32
Speaker
What's powerful in Texas is that, like you mentioned, even more spaces popped up. So Austin's had this rally three times. There was new locations, even like Bastrop nearby. There's a couple other cities that didn't necessarily have rallies and maybe they came to ours um for two and one.
00:03:51
Speaker
but had their own this time. And I love that. I love a community getting together so that when they are chanting and singing and speaking up about what's going on, it can be tethered to their specific context. Even if it's all connected and related to this fighting up fighting and standing up to injustice, you're able to tailor that message to what matters for your community.
00:04:14
Speaker
Well, it's so on brand, right? I mean, it's decentralized and coalition based. What else would you expect from a you know rallying cry of for no kings about authoritarianism? Why would there be a top down structure where you're just being told what to do? i love that it's so regional and and you know multifaceted and its own flavor, even within the state.
Community Engagement and Rallies
00:04:34
Speaker
I mean, Texans, you know, we're the kind of prime audience for this kind of message, I would think. I mean, independence is a big deal here. We are the lone star state, right? ah We don't want power telling us what to do.
00:04:46
Speaker
I mean, how do you see that kind of specific spin on Texas? Like, what were the things that as organizers you were trying to tap into? One of the big things we do differently in Austin is that we bring in other organizations, not only as collaborators for this process, I did get a long runway. So sometimes the dates announced maybe four weeks before the rally date, we had eight weeks lead time. So I met with other organizers that work 24-8 on these kinds of issues. Ask them, what's your ideal no kings look like?
00:05:22
Speaker
And then i also did an open call for artists and musicians. This is the live music capital of the world. Music and art are at the forefront of social and political change. So it doesn't make sense to leave kind of anyone out of this conversation. and through those conversations for ideation, we are able to come up with concepts. And then we bring organizations and artists and musicians together. to the day of so that the rally is not just a one and done. It's a plug. It's a funnel into actions you can take past that day.
00:05:55
Speaker
i have a lot of people say, I don't really know how to approach organizing. i don't know what to do. I'm overwhelmed, but I want to do something. And for a lot of people, the easiest thing to do is you know show up to a protest go vote. like Those things should be relatively easy and achievable. But there are other things you can do. at having someone...
00:06:14
Speaker
talk you through it, especially if it's an issue you care about. So the organizations we had represented were a really huge swap. We had people from labor, we had people that were talking about mental health, we had people talking about immigration rights, we had people talking about the environment.
00:06:29
Speaker
was a huge array of groups that have special... actions and specialized interests in these areas that can give people direct actions that they can continuously claw the way at.
00:06:40
Speaker
And then we will continue to work with those partners for other actions that aren't no-king specific. We have other things coming up like May Day, which is the Labor Day, International Workers' Day.
Impact and Individual Stories
00:06:51
Speaker
um There'll be an artist and activist event we're doing Austin.
00:06:54
Speaker
There's more things to do after the fact that are based in your community. Again, you can plug into it's not just no kings like that is the that's behind. That's a part of the movement. That's the drive. But there's other pathways to justice that we're going to explore not only on the day, but after.
00:07:12
Speaker
Well, they mentioned that right out of the gate because I feel like one of the the critiques. People complain about everything. One of the critiques you always hear about no kings or any big protest rally is like, ah that's easy to do, you know, just show up to a rally, have fun, but nothing gets done. You know, they're very pessimistic people, but You're like, no, and this is not the moment. This the movement. And we're we're giving you the next steps. You're showing up here, you're getting energized, but you're also getting information. You're being empowered on what's happening after that.
00:07:44
Speaker
I had to throw in that Hamilton line. I got very excited about the No Kings episode. So I wore my Alexander Hamilton shirt. He's showing the ah the shirt and for our listeners.
00:07:55
Speaker
You know, the one with Lin-Manuel pointing up on the star, you know, the classic. Exactly. My job as a millennial to bring in the millennial cringe of of the Hamilton. Well, i'm I'm just curious, what are the specific action items you think people will take away with the No Kings movement? And I'm i'm wondering, and because my dad, I'll give you all a shout out. he i think he would say he's a lifelong independent, but leaned Republican for a long time. And he ended up going to a No Kings rally at the last one up in our North Texas suburbs and not the main one downtown. It was like a Plano or Frisco one. And like they were even organizing up in all these like smaller areas, maybe not small, but they're the suburbs and they're out on streets. And my dad was out there just having the time of his life. And I was asking him, OK, what what's
00:08:43
Speaker
what is going on and what are your thoughts and takeaways? And his, I think in that area was registering voters.
Local Actions and Activism
00:08:49
Speaker
And so I'm wondering in a bigger rally like yours, like what is the next thing for y'all? What are you hoping is the takeaway that people have when they're at that rally?
00:08:58
Speaker
We definitely did register voters over 100 at No Kings 3. So that was really exciting. so we did do that as well. Awesome. Yeah, I hope the takeaway for people is you're not alone. think when you're kind of doom scrolling, the very first thing I want people to feel is camaraderie and a sense of community.
00:09:16
Speaker
And knowing that it's not just your voice, it's a community of voices, which is much louder. and So that's the first thing I want people to take away is like, I'm not alone in my thinking.
00:09:27
Speaker
We all see what's going on. We're not happy with it. We're going to do something about it. After that point, I want people to see themselves as a ah powerful proponent of change. I think some of us feel like and i said this the day of some of us feel like our voices can't carry far enough. Their hands can't reach high enough.
00:09:46
Speaker
you What can i do? And it's, of course, it's a movement. It's everything. People look back at things like civil rights and think, oh, it's just like what, like a big protest? Is it just the March on Washington? No, like it's a bunch of actions, a lot of things that build and build and build and build. And they start at the very local level. So being able to show up and and contribute to a mutual aid, maybe like, you know, community fridge or or your community garden, That is activism. That is being a part of your community, going and testifying to your city council, advocating for things to be on the budget and other things not be beyond the budget, being on your PTA and communicating with your schools about, you know, what they're what they're doing and being on top of issues of like
00:10:33
Speaker
bias or bigotry, speaking up in all those different contexts means something. And it doesn't just mean something for the movement. It also means something to your neighbors. if If you're seeing injustice happen and everyone's just complacent and just allowing it to happen, that is exactly how it snowballs into bigger issues, bigger violations, like some of the ones we're seeing right now.
00:10:55
Speaker
We cannot stand by and allow it to happen. We need to be standing up regularly. and not letting the other thing that kind of is a challenge is that I think folks using media is a great tool, but media also tends to create echo chambers or can be manipulated to make you feel a certain kind of truth exists out there that may not.
00:11:17
Speaker
And so that's the other powerful component of going to these rallies, not knowing that you're not alone. It's inherently motivating to know that that's the that's the truth. When you have 30,000, 40,000 people standing next to you, angry about the same things, activated by the same information, you know that it's worth fighting for because you're not going to have to do it alone.
00:11:39
Speaker
Yeah, a couple of things. ah We just want to say like, yes, these things are
National Coordination and Inclusivity
00:11:43
Speaker
popping up everywhere. My father-in-law went to one of these in Greenville, Texas, right? Like really it is, it's reach is everywhere.
00:11:51
Speaker
Yeah. And then something jumped out at me. You referred to No Kings 3, right? ah For those who have not been following as closely, it's important, dear listener, to understand there have been three of these rallies.
00:12:04
Speaker
my My homework, my my research says that The first No Kings in June 2025 had over 5 million participants. By October, when they had the second one, we're up to 7 million.
00:12:18
Speaker
And then the third, this past March, the largest single day protest in United States history, somewhere between like 8 and 9 million people participated.
00:12:29
Speaker
ah How do you even calculate that? I don't even know. But is there a way to report that, Shelby? Like, do you report that up? and Yeah. So usually what you do, most popular way to do these estimates is to have a drone shot of your crowd. And then there's like a specific calculation, a formula. i think National also communicated with us to give us the strategy for calculating our crowd size. And then you give an estimate to to National and then they're able to tally overall.
00:12:55
Speaker
So seems there is communication with sort of a national group. And if somebody was in a new area and something that we're reflecting on is that we are building our infrastructure here in Texas. Like we have more groups, we have more chairs of parties, out more precinct chairs. And if someone's out alone in East or West Texas or wherever, and they're feeling like they're a blue dot and a red sea, how do they get connected to this? Like, how do they get connected to that so that they can show their neighbors as you're saying that they're not alone?
00:13:23
Speaker
For No King specifically, there's there's a landing page, there's a website, there's materials for if you want to be a host community, you can get plugged in They'll have national calls. We don't... We're pretty, so I would say, sophisticated, not to pat ourselves on the back, but Austin's done this a few times. So we don't rely too much on those resources, but they have resources like things that you could use for social media content or that you could use for...
00:13:48
Speaker
handouts, they'll send you a banner. So for for folks that maybe aren't fundraising like we're doing in Austin and and have like some infrastructure with all these people we collaborate with, Know Kings National will provide some resources and guidance for you And someone will answer your email and your questions if you need help kind of conceptualizing how you would do that in a smaller town or in a town where maybe it's not happening. I think you'd be surprised. Like um we were talking about Plano earlier and that's where my parents live. They started seeing besides know no Kings activities, they were seeing protests for you know ice out ice out of Texas, ice out of Plano activities happening near the grocery store where I grew up. And they were like, wow, we've never seen people like picketing like this before in Plano. So i I think that's the other kind of powerful thing is that if you don't need necessarily a blueprint. You don't necessarily need a stage or like a fancy sound system.
00:14:47
Speaker
Just showing up is enough. We have people that show up on the highway every single day with banners about whatever issue du jour is. They are out there every single day.
00:14:58
Speaker
and i highly encourage someone like, if that's where you want to start, start there. That's not nothing. And before you know it, there might be 15 people standing with you. And then maybe you're going to, you know, trivia or happy hour with those people or getting a coffee.
00:15:13
Speaker
And then you all are going to talk about what's going on in your communities. You're going to talk about how you want to get more people to join you, what next steps you want to take. And that's how it starts. It's grassroots, it's authentic, and it's meaningful.
00:15:25
Speaker
One of our early guests, John Turner, is a former state representative in the North Texas area. And he talked about the No Kings rallies as just a really phenomenal opportunity to have a serious discussion and demonstration of patriotism.
00:15:42
Speaker
Forget left versus right on the traditional poli-sci spectrum. That's kind of out the window right now, right? Like it is just a patriotic thing to do to resist authoritarianism. It is, it's harder to think of something more American that should bring the left and right wings of this this bald eagle together. is that something you've noticed that is this has expanded beyond the kind of traditional democratic coalitions to bring in those kind of independents, but even maybe some disaffected Republicans?
00:16:17
Speaker
I would say absolutely. Something that was unique at our most recent rally, we had a veteran, an Afghanistan veteran, do slam poetry about the horrors of war. And I think no person could listen to that and not be moved.
00:16:34
Speaker
You know, that's... The reality of the moment we're in, i mean, maybe one of the only upsides of how egregious the actions that we're seeing happen is that it's really hard to not look at it and be like, this is bad.
00:16:49
Speaker
it's It's so reprehensible. There's really not a lot of nuance. You can't you can't look at like kids being kept starving and sick and ah with no due process in a detention center and be like, that's cool. You know, that that's not American. That's not patriotic. ah You can't look at American citizens being killed in the street.
00:17:11
Speaker
Again, no due process and say, that's cool with us. That's just, that's fair. It's blatantly un-American what's happening. And it's patriotic what we're doing, no matter what rhetoric's used to try to skew what's happening. And I think I will say just as a personal observation, the last rally, there was a lot of talk um in sort of the traditional channels about how what we were doing was un-American. And I think it boosted our turnout quite a bit. It had no kings in the national conversation. we got called out.
00:17:43
Speaker
and And this time around, I think they learned better and just tried to act like it wasn't happening at all. And like you said, there was still growth, which to me means people are still paying attention, they still care, and they still know what's happening is wrong.
00:17:56
Speaker
And they're using their First Amendment right to say something about it. Yeah. Well, i mean, I mentioned at the front end that Abbott had called it an Antifa rally. I think that was back in the fall. And then also deployed the National Guard as if this was some sort of crisis, an emergency when it's Americans exercising their First Amendment right, including my dad, who's like in his mid 70s. Like this. How is this so afraid? a way, he's right.
00:18:21
Speaker
In a way, we are all anti-fascist. I'm never going to say Abbott's say and and In a weird way. I mean, it's so odd that like being anti-fascist is now a bad position for some political actors.
00:18:38
Speaker
Very strange. They're so good at co-opting words and making it seem like boogeyman. and It's like Antifa, immigrants, fentanyl, whatever. you know It's just like one after another. and I'm wondering, how do y'all combat that negativity? and I love, and I'm guessing this is part of the solution, is that there are so many great signs and costumes and love. like i i just saw a lot of people dancing and cheering. And mean, is that part of that? And how do you accomplish it?
00:19:10
Speaker
I think you just include as much as possible. So I don't think you need to have a narrative that's like narrow and scripted. We had such an eclectic array of people.
00:19:23
Speaker
i mentioned the veteran. We also had drag performers. We also had a Hispanic ska band ah come out. They were incredible people. an incredible music act also a group called singing resistance they had like 50 plus uh i would say like mature ladies singing a song of peace and teaching it to the crowd and and then you see like the really fun outfits yes definitely some comedic signs um and everybody like all ages that's the other thing is that we have an incredible array of ages from from super duper young to retiree, um older folks, seniors, and they're all there probably with some different opinions, right? But it's not, it doesn't, it's not the end all be all to have some disagreements or not totally aligned. You know, I'll do, I don't like solar power. No, I do. It's the way we can disagree on some of those things and still agree that human rights need to be respected,
Broadening Scope and Unity in Organizing
00:20:18
Speaker
that we should be treated with dignity, that we can come together over what is an affront to democracy. i think that's like,
00:20:25
Speaker
The best way to do it is just put put as many faces, as many voices out there that are standing with that for truth and and let someone identify. The other thing we did that I really do want to highlight, and I think as many communities can should, we had our programming in ASL, Spanish and English.
00:20:45
Speaker
And some people were worried about having sequential interpretation disrupt things. But in fact, I got such a ah big reaction from the crowd actually made speeches last longer because it would say something in English and rah, rah, rah. And then in Spanish, people were like, yeah.
00:21:02
Speaker
And I got to see more community color less over this inclusion. If you've ever watched an ASL interpreter, it is way more entertaining and way spectacular um to have someone on on the stage doing ASL interpretation because there's a like emotion. And it just felt good to include members of our community that are sometimes not addressed and not folded into the process. And so again, it makes this tapestry ah bigger and more beautiful and stronger.
00:21:34
Speaker
and a Austin seems well positioned to be able to do something like that too. with I mean, my wife taught for five years at the Texas School for the Blind. And obviously the the Texas School for the Deaf is there in Austin as well.
00:21:45
Speaker
This is just a FYI. Everyone's going to learn something about me today. I don't think Kate knows this about me, but you mentioned the veteran doing slam poetry. I did slam poetry in high school for uill And ah even not only performed existing pieces, but I would write and I got a couple published in in college. so Wow. Humble brag. At the next No Kings, we'll have you, Alex.
00:22:11
Speaker
And bring me out. So that, I guess that begs the question, is there another one, Shelby? Like, is this is this the last one? Is there going to be another one? I mean, what are you hearing? Phase four, is it coming? I'm sure there will be more rallies and gatherings. I don't know if they're going to call it No Kings 4. What I do know is that we will continue to to do movement work. We will continue to rally. we will have big days of action.
00:22:35
Speaker
i did note that the the folks that are kind of doing No Kings National are putting their way behind other things like May Day. So they're again, there's been... Y'all know, like labor and like the idea of like unions in America, even though May Day is like a thing that started in America. And then it's International Workers Day and that we have a different Labor Day. And it's comical in the labor community. But most of us don't know about that.
00:23:01
Speaker
And so that's another thing that when you're talking about the Venn diagram of people who maybe were disenchanted, former Republicans slash independents and people who are maybe more left leaning, labor solidarity is something that we should all get behind because everybody working that's working to live needs to have a voice. And we know the economic situation right now is not very fortuitous for us um who are regular folk, not in the 1%. So I see more movement work happening. I can't, I'm not national. So I don't know if they're going to be like no Kings four, if they're going to pivot the name whatever.
00:23:36
Speaker
or just continue to throw more weight behind continuing no kings. But ah certainly the movement will continue and there will be more gatherings and more direct action. Yeah, harder to imagine a bigger tent organizing principle than people who have to work for a living.
00:23:54
Speaker
Right? Like, I think some people don't understand that they are working class people. If you have to work to live,
00:24:06
Speaker
You are working class. People need to expand their idea of what that definition means. Because there's this whole other class of people. There aren't a lot of them, but they don't have to work to live.
00:24:18
Speaker
They can live off the interest of their their assets. Right? Like an income tax doesn't even touch them because they just live off of their wealth. Right? Yeah. Well, I have a question on that, Shelby, because one of our takeaways that we've had on this podcast is messaging. Like, what do we message in order to flip the state? This is a podcast about flipping Texas to elect more Democrats. And i think one of the takeaways we've had from the party and from candidates is that we should stop talking about Trump and all the bad things about him, but also talk about working class issues and economic populism So I'm glad to hear that this is now being joined with the labor movement because it kind of marries those two concepts together. This is not about Trump. This is about our democracy, but also sort of a populist message. Yeah, absolutely. i think just so something I was confronted with and and when you're talking about people like to complain online, I mean, yes, absolutely. There's the whole, y'all know about bean soup,
00:25:18
Speaker
that oh no tell me what is uh there's uh it started with someone posted a recipe for i you know you want to get your fiber in and your protein and they had like this really great bean soup recipe and someone commented well what if i don't like beans and it's like and then it's like this idea that like you know not everything's for you like maybe if you don't like beans don't comment on the bean soup recipe and So I think for a lot of folks that are like looking at no kings are like, well, no kings, like, I don't get it. Like, we don't have a king and and what else? and And so we were challenged with this idea of not just being like no kings, not being reactionary to any one particular administration, but also yes, what?
00:26:01
Speaker
And that was a big impetus for having such a... staia diverse coalition show up with their orgs, with actions, because it's like, yes, I would like my neighbors to be housed. Yes, I would like students to be able to have food and books and it not cost them their whole financial future to do so.
00:26:25
Speaker
um I would, yes, I would like my my parks to not be paved over for the next big data center. And I don't want to be surveilled by a i um So all of these ideas of what we want for our community can feel more tangible when we're giving them these different ideas of what can make that happen. Because I think it's also very easy to become pie in the sky and be like, yes, we want equality. Yes, we want justice. But being quite specific about What does that look like? And how do we achieve it? How do we pursue it? And then how do we achieve it is something that was important for for me when organizing this. And I think it's also helpful for sustaining because then you can get wins. It's like my wins can't hang its hat on this like one administration or a one person. There's a lot of people that are a part of what's going on right now that are allowing it to happen and making it happen. And i'm not going to tether...
00:27:22
Speaker
a movement on a single person. I think that time and time again, that fails. We need to hang our hat on what is the America? What is the Texas we want for ourselves? And how do we make that happen?
00:27:35
Speaker
In a broad enough way to write like you you've mentioned solar as the kind of throwaway example, of like, not everybody's going to agree. I love my solar panels, but it really doesn't matter to me if you're going to vote for my candidates, whether you do or not. Right. Like, i think as a country, we need more solar, but I would rather stop some serious injustices and take back power before I like start drawing lines in the sand.
00:28:00
Speaker
I get really frustrated with Texas Democrats who are like, no, you have to be like, meet the following seven purity tests. You have to like match all these seven things. It's like, well, timeout.
00:28:12
Speaker
That'd be a nice thing to have once we could like take back the legislature, once we could take back the governor's mansion, once we can elect anybody statewide since 1994.
00:28:23
Speaker
We're putting the cart before the horse here. And what I like about the New Kings movement is it is... bringing a broad tent together. And so I like that. ah That's, that's the approach. I wish that we could kind of adopt that mindset as well.
00:28:40
Speaker
Did you get any pushback as to like, the kinds of people who were involved, like wanting that to be about more, like specific and potentially less widely accepted ideas?
00:28:54
Speaker
And how did you address that? I feel like with the I open every meeting with like community agreements. And it's basically like respect each other, come into this, assuming best intent. But also if you're going impact someone negatively, own that.
00:29:08
Speaker
Just kind of basic principles of responsibility to one another. and and I think that resonates out in the whole event. You're going have folks that may not be 100% aligned on every strategy that they would implement But something we did do is you have to be inclusive in the way that you're approaching conversations and representing your work.
00:29:30
Speaker
You weren't going to have any organization that was there to be like anti-human rights for some specific group. and But we did encourage is is centering the unity principle and how coming together amplifies all of our strengths.
00:29:48
Speaker
Kind of similar to what you were saying around... It is having those like smaller conversations and disagreements. Is that detracting from our impact? And I think that if you only organize online, that's how you're going to feel.
00:30:01
Speaker
But I think in the real world, it's just harder to simplify to flatten someone the same way that you could online, especially if it's an anonymous comment or something like that. You're just like scrolling through like a a Reddit forum.
00:30:14
Speaker
But if you're in person, there's just so much more humanity and dimension and the literal and non literal sense that it's just not something we really
Personal Milestones and Measuring Success
00:30:24
Speaker
dealt with too much. I had to deal more with like personalities, you know, the the normal stuff you would deal like, deal with and need to do like team building with and and that's fine. Because you can't imagine organizing attracts a certain kind of person. Like we're all very passionate and opinionated. We're loud and gappers. So that was probably the most management I really had to do is just kind of giving space to every every person to be themselves, but also maintain a sense of, i don't want say decorum, but just like respect, mutual respect of each other and appreciating each other for showing up as we are.
00:31:01
Speaker
I imagine there's some times where you had to say, that's a great idea, but we might not be able to do that or accomplish that in this rally. But I'm wondering, Shelby, it sounds like this is a lot of work. i mean, how is this your full time job? How did you get into this kind of organizing?
00:31:18
Speaker
What's weird is that it's completely unpaid. not a lot of people know that. And it is hundreds of hours. And so I arrived at this because I'm one of those passionate nerds that cares about my community, that feels very activated. And I think my coping mechanism with heavy emotions and hardship is to just do a bunch of stuff.
00:31:39
Speaker
So that's how I just started showing up. was just showing up. I got to do something. got to say something, got to do whatever. And with this particular group, I also have a background. So I have a very eclectic background. i've worked in government.
00:31:53
Speaker
I work for a nonprofit. i do political advocacy for public health, but I also work for a a drag queen telegram service that does events. And I do like event um planning and execution and management.
00:32:05
Speaker
I'm like co-chair. Yeah. So very eclectic background. It lends itself well for so for some reason for political organizing. And i do have policy degrees. So there's a bit of, you know, I'm not coming into it completely without context and information.
00:32:21
Speaker
So because of that, I took up this mantle. But that means like for something else, like we, for example, one of our ah new volunteer organized a fundraiser because we bring in like porta potties and sound. That stuff costs money. As I mentioned, we're unpaid. And they were like, I just really want to do this like fundraising concert.
00:32:39
Speaker
And they were really excited about it. And so we let them do it. And by let them, I mean, it's fantastic. Not up to us to be like, you can. But we supported them in and achieving that. And they they made some money, which was great, because people need a place to go to the bathroom and we need water. So it's that's what I mean by show ofocracy is that this movement's fueled by people that give of themselves their talents and their time.
00:33:03
Speaker
to the movement freely. So it is a lot of work. I think that the other thing is with with organizing the best organizers I know allow people to self-select into leadership.
00:33:15
Speaker
And so similarly, I'm a big fan of delegation. i was like, I don't really want to manage like mapping. and I don't want to have to manage... the like every single bit of communication with like volunteers, for example. So we have designated leads for those things that self-selected because they had a talent in that.
00:33:31
Speaker
If it's really, if there's a gap, then maybe I have to be like, you know, poke some people. Hey, I think you'd be really good at this job that we happen to need. and Maybe I've run out of spoons for, but but that way there's everyone holds a little bit of responsibility, but that also means that you hold a bit of buy-in.
00:33:47
Speaker
um You're personally invested in the work that you're doing. And then you get to walk away. Like we all went, we took over um a cantina after Noakes, like completely took over their patio. Yeah. And we were just all, I think for 45 minutes, we're cheersing each other and giving long-winded speeches about how we appreciated the work and day.
00:34:08
Speaker
And it was a pretty jovial thing. So there is some joy in this passionate nerve work as well that pays dividends one way or another because we keep at it.
00:34:19
Speaker
two things. One, I didn't know there was such a thing as a drag queen telegram. buth I have looked this up. This is what extra grams LLC. ah Yes. yeah I just found you on LinkedIn. Yes. The second thing, because I found you on LinkedIn is that your policy degree is from the LBJ school.
00:34:36
Speaker
And Kate has a connection to the LBJ school. Yeah, I was a, I the women's campaign school that's connected to LBJ. So I loved it. Yeah. Okay. So this is going to be wild I,
00:34:48
Speaker
You know, Amy, who started that? Yeah. Real quick. Amy and I worked on the Pete Gallego campaign in 2016, right before I went to law school. Whoa. I know Amy. OK.
00:35:00
Speaker
OK. So am Amy and I were in an empirical methods class. I believe that's what it was. I think it was advanced empirical methods. it's ah It's a required course. And for you had to do a project, sort of like a capstone and the women's campaign school, I worked with Amy on, we were we were talking about how we would evaluate. That's what it was, an evaluation thing. And so she had, was like working through the idea and was like materializing that. And we worked on a practice evaluation during my time at LBJ. So that's so cool that I knew we came to fruition. And I really, really love Amy and Love that
Focus on Community Needs and Political Participation
00:35:37
Speaker
project. So that's so cool that you're part of it. Yeah.
00:35:39
Speaker
So that's for our listener, Amy Kroll, who was the executive director of the LBJ Women's Campaign School. There's a lot of campaign schools across the country. And I'd love to have her or someone else on about campaign schools because it helped me get a jumpstart to having a network for campaigning, but also learning the substance of it. And I was in a cohort, an early cohort. And it's so weird because I was just messaging the new ED about mentoring and saying, i'm yeah, I'm sure I'll love to be a mentor. Yeah. But it was such a great way to network and meet Amy, who is herself a military spouse. And so she and I bonded over that and her ah work with Democrats and also just politics writ large. I think she's with like the Clinton Leadership Foundation or something like that now. And i we all wish her so well.
00:36:25
Speaker
um But yeah, that is that's really crazy. The this politicking and organizing the world gets smaller. i hope every listener feels that way that as we have more people join and hopefully that they're meeting people in their community that just becomes like such a small world. You, you get to know more and more people. But I think that goes to a point that you were making earlier, which is that sometimes if you're just online and you're on threads or you're on TikTok, you come away maybe with a negative perspective. And I had one even during our primary because there was such a
00:36:57
Speaker
ah I think there's through threads in TikTok and other ways, there was such a there's a lot of attacks going on. Whereas every time I knocked on a door or I went to a or a group or a rally, I came away with such positivity and good feelings about politics. And I'm so glad that y'all are doing that kind of work and bringing people together. so I just want to give you a shout out to that.
00:37:20
Speaker
Well, I wanted to maybe follow up on what you're talking about with Amy is like hot measuring and evaluating. Like, how do you measure the success of that rally, whether it be by numbers, registering voters or just vibes?
00:37:35
Speaker
Yes, yes, and I think all of that is like vibes. I would say for anyone who has a stereotype about what rallying looks like, we've had no safety incidents. We also have like an internal, like we do like some de-escalation stuff, but no no safety incidents, very happy. um i don't even think we had anyone overheated this one, which is great. The weather was pretty forgiving this time versus the summer in Texas.
00:37:59
Speaker
So certainly there's the quantitative elements, how many people showed up. How many people do we register to vote? How many people RSVP'd on the Mobilize, which ah tends to be like a multiplier of like five to 10 times the amount of people that RSVP actually show up. um So obviously not like a perfect measure. But ah there's also things that we're doing to try to get feedback. um We can send follow-up surveys through Mobilize. So for those that smaller percentage of people that register, we can send a survey, get direct feedback that way, which we did.
00:38:32
Speaker
I also did a debrief with the people that were the planners. So all of those passionate folks of which there were about, we'll say like 30 or so that were kind of regularly working on this, um hosted a debrief with them, have a survey.
00:38:46
Speaker
um Also, we're doing the same thing with participants. So there's like 80 organizations that showed up also doing a debrief, having a survey. ah Certainly the vibes are are what you look at. It's also interesting to see what media says about your event after the fact. So the way that traditional media reports on the event can kind of give you a sense of like what did an external party feel happened.
00:39:09
Speaker
During the day, what stood out to them, what images are kind of traipsing around ah the Internet. And then i think finally is for us, we're working on evaluating with our partners.
00:39:22
Speaker
But how much how much engagement did you get? Like how people signed up for your petition? How many folks? joined your next meeting, did the direct actions that you gave, touching base with them because we know that it happened. We know that for the last one, every single organization said we ran out of paper. We ran out of paper for our signup list. We ran out of paper for our petitions. um So this time we're doing the follow-up but and asking, well, how many pieces of paper did you print and and how many people showed up to that meeting? And did you feel how much impact do you feel like you got? How many follow you on Instagram, trying to find more quantifiable ways to get a sense of what the movement is doing. But ultimately, i think that...
00:40:08
Speaker
The vibes piece you could never ignore. It tends to be what people walk away with. and And the vibe I got in Austin, I think what I heard resoundingly is a feeling of unity. And that was on purpose. That was when I talked about those ideation meetings.
00:40:23
Speaker
ah We were really talking about your fight is my fight. finding a way to work together for cross movement power. And I was like, how do we make that felt? And so we just kept pressing that message throughout the programming and throughout the groups and the meeting, blah, blah, blah, everything that we were doing ahead of time. It was in the chants. And I think that people walked away with that feeling of I'm a part of something greater.
00:40:46
Speaker
I care for my neighbor. My neighbor cares for me. I love that you ended it there on on those positive vibes. I think that is just like the perfect segue to ah one of my favorite segments of our show that we've added called Good News.
00:40:59
Speaker
And so the the idea here is that Republicans are really good at sharing their word, their evangelizers kind of naturally. And people in the center or center left, for whatever reason, we we are.
00:41:13
Speaker
makes except for these really great opportunities at rallies. And so we got to get in the habit of flexing that muscle, getting more reps in, just getting more comfortable sharing what we care about and our and things that are such good, you know, developments in our lives, either personally and professionally, we just can't help but share it.
00:41:32
Speaker
I feel like that's probably the experience a lot people had at these rallies. So let's do it. What is something from your life, either personally professionally? So good. You got to share. it I think, I mean, my dog had a really cute haircut. So that's pretty cool. Oh, yeah. I'm going to get a picture of that.
00:41:52
Speaker
Oh, yeah. now Is that a schnauzer? No, he's a multi-poo. He's an old man. Oh, yeah. My dog's old, too. um And then the other thing that's probably exciting that's a little bit more um relevant is for this upcoming local election and then also for the runoff that's happening, I'll be the presiding judge for Travis County.
00:42:14
Speaker
um A friend of mine who was the presiding, I've been clerking, but I'll be i'll be presiding judge, which like is... It's going to be an exciting opportunity to, I've already gotten to be within like count votes and all that kind of stuff, but this will be a new role to take on, which is pretty unique, a unique view of our electoral system.
00:42:33
Speaker
The Honorable Shelby Evans. yeah Election judge extraordinaire. Yeah, love it. That's cool. Yeah. How about you? Yeah, my good news, um well, is personal. So I'm heading to El Paso tonight. My family and I split our time between Dallas and El Paso because I have a stepson who lives there during the academic. pandemic year. i Love El Paso. I love West Texas, especially the food in the mountains. So very excited, but we're going because my stepson is having his first communion. We are Catholic in my family.
00:43:05
Speaker
so we're bringing my parents, my husband's parents, his mother's parents. We're all good friends. And it's going great time to bring all of our family together. And I love sharing just all the things that I love about El Paso.
00:43:18
Speaker
That's my good news. I ah am very kind of almost nervous to share my good news, but I got to follow my own advice and just get over it. Yeah. do it So I am going to make some big news because today is April 16th. This episode will come out next Thursday, April 23rd. And that is the day the website for RymanClark.com goes live.
00:43:43
Speaker
I have ah left my my cushy, secure big law job and I am starting a law firm with a friend of mine who also went to UT, also a veteran, also a former clerk.
00:43:56
Speaker
And we are going to take our skills and big law background and we're going to use it on behalf of real people. We're going to sue. bad landlords and contractors and anybody who who hurts Texas tenants and homeowners.
00:44:10
Speaker
And I'm very, very excited to announce that because ah we have been waiting to do a more public announcement till April 23rd, the magic day, because that will be a 10 year banquet for the Texas Law Veterans Association, which me and a buddy of mine co-founded my 1L year.
00:44:30
Speaker
I don't love the idea that that was 10 years ago, but it is how math works. And so technically, if you're listening to Spotify or Apple Podcasts or ah YouTube um on the morning of April 23rd, you'll hear it before anybody else. Hey.
00:44:46
Speaker
Yeah, I'm so excited. Well, congrats, Alex. I'm so excited for you and your partner. That's incredible, especially of serving others in the state. I think that is very goes in line with our this podcast. I mean, just the community building and serving individuals. So in fact, we've been plotting and scheming for about a year. We we first talked about this at an access to justice fundraiser for the Veterans Committee.
00:45:11
Speaker
down at the Four Seasons in Austin and the speaker was Bryan Stevenson. Oh, I love him. Yeah. He's incredible speaker and he talked a lot that night about being proximate, being among the people and in the arts in the community, actually being able to lay eyes and hands on them, right? Like to actually be in it.
00:45:33
Speaker
And I, you know, I loved my my previous job and the people I worked with, but It's not the same when you're working for massive corporations. you know You don't feel as connected um or as as gratified, personally, at least.
00:45:49
Speaker
Well, thank you for the work that you're going to be doing. And also thank you, Shelby. Okay, we're going to get into our last segment, if that's okay. And before we do that, I want to give a plug to our Patreon. If you would like to support us as independent media and help us defray the cost of this podcast, you can become a member for just a few dollars a month. Or you can support us by giving us a five-star review wherever you get your podcasts and so share our social media.
00:46:11
Speaker
at Mission Texas Podcast. Now, all right, Shelby, I want to know, this is our last segment. it's called The Last Word. Think of it like the last day at the Alamo, we're rallying the troops just like you did at the No Kings. How do we bridge the gap between the work with No Kings to actually delivering for people And flipping the state. I know No Kings is not necessarily politically aligned with the party, but I believe that you probably have the desire to flip the the state for better.
00:46:41
Speaker
So how how do you believe that we need to flip the state and from your perspective as an organizer? So while the work we do is nonpartisan, what what is also nonpartisan is all the things we talked about, wanting justice for your neighbors, wanting due process, followed our First Amendment, our Fourth Amendment rights, respected. and if the people in power right now are not doing that for you, we suggest you vote them out. So...
00:47:08
Speaker
and And that's across, that's no specific party. If the person that's in power is not doing it for you, then vote them out, like like Willie Nelson said. And so that, if that results in a flip Texas, am here for a better Texas for Texans.
00:47:24
Speaker
So, so that is, that is within our power. That's the other thing to not forget. i think people forget their power. And that is what people who have too much of it want you to do. They want you to forget that you have power. And when we bring that all together, and we we vote, we can wield much more power together.
00:47:45
Speaker
Amazing. Well, I want to know just in the last few minutes, how do you get people organized, not just to get to the rally, but I know that a takeaway in a lot of our local municipal school board and even our other partisan races is to get people organized to volunteer. And how do you see that as a community organizer? Like, how do you bridge that gap? Because I think that is a key to how we're going to elect people that are actually interested in issues.
00:48:10
Speaker
issues I think it's taking the time to have conversations. So I mentioned I'm a yapper, so i don't I don't mind terribly much to have those conversations. A lot of ah distress and problems were circumvented because I was willing to pick up the phone or go to the coffee shop and meet with someone and spend an hour, two hours even talking through things. And feel like when you also take time to, you know i write, i still have a pile on my desk.
00:48:41
Speaker
i wrote I wrote thank you notes for all the people that were super involved in making No Kings happen and be a success. Taking the time to do those 45 minute toasts and to acknowledge one another and speak with volunteers and get to know them.
00:48:56
Speaker
i think that's important. The relationship building. I think sometimes we're too frenetic and I'm guilty of that as well. But really taking time to engage with people and see them and appreciate them.
00:49:06
Speaker
and invest in them creates a much more sustainable movement. And it brings it brings people in. So I feel like that is a strategy that we need to embrace more the most successful organizers i know spend a lot of time doing relational work.
00:49:22
Speaker
Well, yeah, and I think one of the best people I've seen in recent years who does that is Beto O'Rourke. And I remember the first time i learned about you, you had ah you had been interviewing him at ah Auditorium Shores, and he had said that the best antidote to despair was action.
00:49:41
Speaker
Absolutely. And that's what we're doing. And that's what you're doing, Shelby. So thank you so much. Well, how can people follow you or support your movement? Yeah. So for No Kings Actions, there's Hands Off Central Texas. It's usually a TX and we have.org. And that's also the same on all social media platforms.
00:50:01
Speaker
If you want to get involved in the elections process, like you want to be like a full worker, the League of Women Voters is a great resource. And that's there's different local ones. So depending on where you are, you can check them out.
00:50:13
Speaker
um And then anything that I'm up to, I'm Shelby Have on all platforms with H-A-E-V-E, which funny enough, StoryGall is my drag name.
00:50:24
Speaker
Shelby Have, Misbehave if you're nasty. Nice. I love that. All right. Well, thank you, Shelby and the No Kings movement. We will see our listeners next week and we'll sign off by saying God bless Texas.
00:50:37
Speaker
You can follow us on all socials at Mission Texas Podcast. Email us at missiontexaspodcast at gmail.com. This episode is edited by Juan Jose Flores.
00:50:48
Speaker
Our music bumper is by Adam Pickerel and our cover art is by Tino Sohn.
00:50:55
Speaker
you