Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Why your network is shallower than you think, and how to change it
1 Playsin 14 hours
What if the reason most people struggle to build meaningful professional relationships isn't effort — it's that they've mistaken a transaction for a foundation?
David Homan has spent thirteen years building the largest private network of super connectors on the planet. Not by being the most impressive person in the room, but by being the most useful one — long before anyone asked. His thesis is that trust operates on a time horizon most people aren't patient enough to respect. That the introductions that change lives rarely pay off in weeks. They pay off in years, through chains of three to five people that no existing technology has ever been able to track — until now.
In this episode, David walks us through the architecture of real community: why action is the only currency that matters, what it actually means to honor a chain of connections, and how a moment of genuine vulnerability can outperform a hundred polished elevator pitches. He also makes a case that most of us have at least two phone calls we should have made by now — and haven't.
Learn more about David's work:
Recommended
![The Everything Machine and the Trillion-Dollar Bet [Replay] image](https://media.zencastr.com/cdn-cgi/image/width=112,quality=85/image-files/6322f03255d97a700020586e/f0ee1901-e926-4895-9598-4c323bd806cb.jpg)
Transcript
Impact of Shared Vulnerability on Relationships
00:00:00
Speaker
I had the same two interactions. In both cases, the two people at once were talking to me and they asked me how I was doing. And since both of these were the first events that I had really attended since I lost my father last December,
00:00:16
Speaker
I said, I'm having a really hard time. I'm about to go on a stage. I learned how to speak just like my dad. My dad passed away December 1st. He was in hospice for a month. And before that, I thought I lost him four times. And like, all I can think about is like my father.
00:00:32
Speaker
And at the at the in-person conference, this woman who everyone else would want to meet on this planet says, what are you going to be talking about? And this other guy says, I'm so sorry.
00:00:46
Speaker
I lost my mother 25 years ago, but I still think of her every day. and I stopped talking to the person that was one of the major speakers at this conference, and I turned and talked to this other guy, who would now I've built a deeper friendship with.
00:00:59
Speaker
I learned his name after we built that connection. He turned out to be also one of the most prominent attendees at this family office if event, one of the largest dynasty families on this planet.
00:01:12
Speaker
I don't care about that. He made me feel better about losing my dad. He was curious about me. We were curious about it. And then everything that happens after that, George, it's going to be relational because we built a foundation of trust around a shared vulnerability.
Introduction to Networking & Trust with David Homan
00:01:34
Speaker
Yo, this is Bare Knuckles and Brass Tacks. I am George K. This week, George A. was on the road, so I took this one solo. This week's guest is David Homan.
00:01:45
Speaker
So there's a version of networking that most of us have been sold. We would collect the card, we shake the hand, we send the follow-up, repeat. right David has spent 13 years testing a different hypothesis that trust isn't a so-called soft skill but a quantifiable asset and that the people everyone wants access to are the ones nobody thinks to actually support.
00:02:08
Speaker
So today we're going to pressure test that idea hard And we get into how David has built the largest private network of super connectors on the planet, why he thinks technology can actually measure trust, and what vulnerability has to do with it. So stick with it.
00:02:26
Speaker
This is a very, very real episode that gets really at the core of human relationships and what they mean today.
00:02:38
Speaker
David Holman, welcome to the show. Thank you for having me, George. Yes. So let's start in and the most logical place, which is the
Orchestrated Connecting: Building Trust over Networking
00:02:46
Speaker
beginning. You have built this private network called Orchestrated Connecting. You have also written a book. ah You have a methodology that you talk about on the conference circuit and now also a startup that uses AI. At what point did you decide that human connection was like an I guess, a broken system rather than
00:03:11
Speaker
a passion project when you find yourself being told no over and over and over again and everyone tells you you should keep networking and go out and then you end up this case i nearly broke my back through that uh you you realize that there's needs to be both a different way to connect a different way to convene, a better way for technology to help us filter out all the noise into the right connection.
00:03:39
Speaker
And really what it all always boils down to for me is figuring out the right ways to actually build trust with people that create a ripple effect that's both positive and efficient as we try to achieve whatever we want to achieve in our lives.
00:03:53
Speaker
Okay. So can you tell our audience just a little bit about orchestrated
Creating a Network of Super-Connectors
00:03:59
Speaker
connecting? and And then I have a few other questions that we're going to use to pressure test. Absolutely. So ah people listening may know about connectors or super connectors.
00:04:10
Speaker
I built the largest private network of super connectors on the planet. I know that only because I have all of the connectors who built other groups that everyone assumed were the largest, but those people didn't have a group for them.
00:04:23
Speaker
And for 11 years now, I've been convening first in New York and now in 10 cities ah throughout the US, UK and Canada, and then globally, virtually. with over 35 countries represented, figuring out how to build trust with the people that everyone wants something from, but no one asks to support.
00:04:42
Speaker
okay And so the methodology, the process, everything I do, even the technology is honed on the premise. If you can successfully connect the ecosystem builders to each other, then study and watch what happens.
00:04:54
Speaker
And that's what I've done with continued network growth. um Very, very handpicked people. You have to be an individual I leave my children with to be in my community. That's a very good litmus test. It's a very high bar. The most connected person in my network has introduced 11 people who joined.
00:05:13
Speaker
And these are people who know hundreds or thousands of quality people. So if you think about like a network map, usually there's like ah a node and out from there, you know, so you have like a, they're the hub and they have thousands of spokes usually. Correct. So I think what I'm understanding is that your network is a network of those hubs, those center nodes that are connected.
00:05:38
Speaker
they are the linchpin. I'm mixing a lot of metaphors here. Yeah, i mean, look, you could geek out and say it is um it is a super nodal network. It is a mycelium network. Or for anyone who's a Trekkie, when you look at like the actual galactic empire and you see where all the main planets and the star bases are, that's what it is. But then relate to all the other planets around it.
00:06:00
Speaker
Okay, so let's entertain the counterfactual.
Action-Based Trust vs Transactional Relationships
00:06:03
Speaker
I think there is a cynical read to this where someone might come up to you and say, okay, well, it sounds like you've essentially like productized friendship, right? So...
00:06:15
Speaker
What is the genuine human impulse and like where, how do we separate that from, I guess, a business imperative that may come under, I guess, more raised eyebrows?
00:06:27
Speaker
Yeah, so so it's a fair point. So the important point to emphasize, I'll give you one quick story about this in a second, is that everything within trust is based on action, not a label.
00:06:38
Speaker
So when people say in my network that I have helped them, I can quantify that with an actual case study by the tens of thousands now since I began my community.
00:06:50
Speaker
When you go to an event with somebody, you never introduce them as a first-degree LinkedIn connection or they they follow you on Instagram. That is a productization of friendship.
00:07:00
Speaker
When you can take, and this is what my startup does, build a trust score but then quantify it, make it into a quality story, it's completely different. So I did a keynote at a major conference called Nexus just the other week, which is the largest next-gen community that I've ever seen. Like thousands and thousands of of of amazing people who they or their families essentially own a huge part of this world.
00:07:24
Speaker
And at the end of that keynote, I asked everyone in this room of about 300 to stand that I have helped over the past 13 years I've been in that network. 85% of the room stood with a call to action. I had directly helped them. And then when I asked all those sitting that I had mostly not yet met, a couple probably I failed to help, but that's just what it is. If somebody standing had strongly helped them, the entire room stood.
00:07:51
Speaker
The founder and my friend Rachel turned around. I couldn't see it from the stage. I was told she cried and they looked at the power of community, which is everything that I write about. It's entirely based on action. Therefore, to answer your question, George, this isn't a productization. This is helping people with things they need, oftentimes with an introduction to another person that has a catalytic impact in their life.
Giving Without Expecting Immediate Returns
00:08:16
Speaker
Okay. i like I like the use of catalyst there, and I also agree with you on the action part. it's It feels like the surface-level superficial connecting that is done mostly on the internet is...
00:08:34
Speaker
you know, a handful of conversations on DMs and then more or less something transactional, you know? Of course. um But you talk about, ah quote, give and give mentality.
00:08:48
Speaker
ah And I want to dig into that because my advice to young people when they're always asking about, like, how do you network? My advice, which I learned just on my own, was always like,
00:08:59
Speaker
I try to give four times before I ask for something. um That's basically when I was trying to reach upwards to people who are more senior than me. i was like, why, why would they give me the time of day unless, you know, I have given something in return?
00:09:15
Speaker
um But yeah, so let's talk a little bit about that action and and let's I guess hold a ah the magnifying glass to it a little sharper because I think when people hear action, what they actually think is transaction.
00:09:31
Speaker
So yes I want to give you some space to to elaborate there. I appreciate that. I also love your number qualifying it as a four to one ratio. In my world, I try to do it nine gives for every ask. Wow. But the system, right, the system that I wanted to understand was, If I help you and I say there's no strings attached, this is what my co-author of my book, Noah Askin, talks about all the time.
00:09:54
Speaker
There's still an an implied implication. There's an implication that if I helped you at some point, you're going to return the favor. So when you're in a community, what I ask people in my network to consider is that, George, I could at some point help you in your life.
00:10:09
Speaker
But what if at some point you could help somebody i cannot help? Mm-hmm. That's what the give and give mentality
Honoring the Chain of Connections
00:10:16
Speaker
is. The idea that if I've built enough trust with you to you to vulnerably say something that you need and I deliver on it, as long as there's an implication at some point you might be generous to somebody I am not able to help, it' it's an astounding difference in the way we view things as relational as opposed to transactional.
00:10:34
Speaker
And since most studies ah that I've done within my network this past decade, it's never that you make a one-to-one intro and then you get a deal, a sale, and an investment, or job.
00:10:46
Speaker
There's a ripple effect of generally three to five people in that chain and two to five years for something substantial to materialize. So transactionally, think of quick, like you I introduce you to somebody, you sell something.
00:10:59
Speaker
If something happens over three and a half years, and has five people involved in it, the technology fail, the system fail, nothing's tracking that. Nothing is looking at it from a linear way once it's become linear from being completely often antithetical in how the chain works.
00:11:17
Speaker
But the one rule in my community, which is what I speak about every event, is called honoring the chain of connections. And it's a practice of gratitude to show everyone who was substantial in that ripple effect to the end result, which can be a major business deal, a private equity firm buying your startup, um of a venture capitalist getting two new major LPs in their next fund, or something as simple as, because I don't believe everything is just this world of venture or family office, you know, my friend getting a connection to the head of a community bank,
00:11:52
Speaker
who donates all of the cookies for the bake sale for a breast cancer awareness walk. Like there's a thousand ways that help is needed. Help is not just, did I meet some billionaire? Did they invest in my company?
00:12:05
Speaker
Help is about a need that cannot be fulfilled by the person alone. And when you do community right, there's a ripple effect of a chain of people who believe in you that eventually create the result that is often a transaction.
00:12:21
Speaker
But if you can keep it relational while doing so, you're seen as honorable and reputation value grows throughout the entire community for every person who helped you along that way.
00:12:33
Speaker
Okay. Well, you mentioned technology, which I'm going to get to in a second. But going back to that anecdote about technology, you know, the amount of people in the room standing up and being able to clearly point to an instance in which either somebody else or you had helped them personally.
Case Study: Mental Health Impact Investing
00:12:51
Speaker
For our listeners, could you give us like a concrete example of what that help looked like? I mean, you don't have to use names if you don't want to. Of course. Just helpful. One of my friends has been struggling with bipolar disorder substantially 25 years.
00:13:09
Speaker
Uh, comes from a very, very prominent family and hadn't had the right solution. And another friend who was not in that room, actually both these individuals were not in the room, but the people who introduced me to them and then helped this outcome were. Okay. they should have met at a major TED conference. Okay.
00:13:30
Speaker
And I told them they needed to, one needed to read the other's book. Didn't happen. You can't, you know, send the book to somebody who's a billionaire because they, they think, so I just, I eventually put my own reputation on the line.
00:13:44
Speaker
And the message that I sent a few years ago was, if you two do not speak, then I will never speak to either of you again or help you. This has to happen. And if somebody were to infer who I'm talking about, they would think that I am absolutely like shoot my head and myself in the head crazy because you do not tell people of prominence something has to happen or you will cut ties off with them. The response was, of course, we'll make it happen.
00:14:09
Speaker
This saved my friend's life. This also started an immense amount of new focus on impact investing into mental health. And the number of friends who are around that world of mental health and startup tech because of these two prominent individuals meeting has been demonstrable now for several years and people getting investments with each other. The larger mental health community around bipolar disorder in particular connecting together. And that was just one connection of about 45 I've made of ultra high net worth individuals
00:14:43
Speaker
who they are family or so one of their passions is specifically neurodegenerative diseases like bipolar disorder um in particular and that was an intro that I made that I put my own reputation on the line that needed to happen that was one of thousands from that room because the community that I am in which is called Nexus I have been helping people in there for over a decade left and right I'm informally called the connector of that community Because when somebody in the community needs to meet somebody else, I'm often the first call to know who in or out of that community is the most helpful to them.
00:15:21
Speaker
yeah So that's one example, but I i could give you many where it technically transactions happen near the end of it, but it was ah relational the entire time. Okay. So i I dig that because I think pre-internet, as you spoke about relational currency and and transactions, a physical community can kind of keep tabs on that stuff, right? Like, oh, you know you can go to so-and-so when you need a cup of sugar or they're a good listener or there's that ah reinforcement. Like everyone kind of has the ledger running in their head.
00:15:58
Speaker
And I think... What you're addressing here is that the internet has made that harder, which is why connection became shallower, because it was much easier on the time horizon to understand, like, David made an introduction to this person, they had invested in my company, right? That feels easier to keep track of ah than across years, right? And then, yeah as you pointed out in this example,
00:16:23
Speaker
downstream effects, which unless you're, again, keeping tabs on all of that makes it it makes it harder. So let's turn to that question
SOAR Connect: Measuring Trust in Networking
00:16:30
Speaker
of technology. So you said before there was no way to measure that impact. And now you have ah SOAR Connect, um and that's a capital S-O-A-R. And that's built around the SOAR score, which is this trust connection signal system.
00:16:50
Speaker
Again, just devil's advocate, qualifying trust feels pretty audacious, but like tell us a little bit about what that actually means and share what you hope it can lead to.
00:17:02
Speaker
So if everyone buys the premise, assuming yeah we agree already that um relational value is different than transactional value, and that action is what matters in terms of building that trust, then the thing that you can quantify that matters the most in terms of trust is actually time.
00:17:21
Speaker
yeah So what we built in a seven page algorithm I've been testing for 20 months now, there are thousands of iterations of it, was this idea that the length of time you've known somebody is one determinant. okay But the volume, the recency, the frequency of it, can we quantify how relationships where people have spent time in whatever pattern it is for them?
00:17:43
Speaker
then can create that top 10, top 50, top 150 to be the Dunbar number. In my network, it's almost 250 that fit that. So what I wanted to understand was could you go from quantifying data back to story?
00:17:59
Speaker
So the top connected person in my network with me has not only the longest length of time ah that we're testing, which is 12 years, they have the highest number of emails.
00:18:10
Speaker
We have the most hours spent together. We also have a a pattern of a standing call every Tuesday. But we also have sporadic text messages, including late night and after hours. And sometimes we have these blocks of time, which are events together.
00:18:25
Speaker
And that person is my friend Jamie. and I chair the theater board that she's the executive director of our relationship is actually the deepest of every relationship I have out of 30,000 that are in my network tracked over, 12 years.
00:18:41
Speaker
So when I show this, i have 20 alpha users who've been looking at this with us, including and like a major professor at Kellogg who studies network and relationship science. The question was, did we convey how you feel about the top people in your network Does this show who you trust the most that you're most in touch with, with all those variables? And now we've gotten it right. I mean, you don't start a startup now and everyone goes to market in three months. We're still not to market because I had to get this right for every type of person, an investor who's in Greece, somebody in Italy, somebody in the UK, somebody in Sri Lanka, you know, people who are VCs and family offices and somebody who is a a super soccer mom. Like I wanted to get it right for all variations.
00:19:25
Speaker
Because if you get that right, the trust score, then you can take the emotion out of how you feel about somebody where the data is different. Because one of my top investors, who's my alpha user, Christine, we're looking at this and we're going, and she's going I want to know who my real friends are.
00:19:44
Speaker
Who, when they write me, am I responsive to instantly? But when I write them, who takes a week to get back to me? And we figured out a way to capture all that data in a very safe and secure way that's now like tier two SOC compliant globally so that what you feel about somebody in the reality might be different. Therefore, how do you act when the data helps inform you as to whether you want to deepen a relationship or remove it from the same emotional state?
Trust Scores: Genuine vs Superficial Relationships
00:20:14
Speaker
Because that person I found in my network who gets back to me two to three weeks later, I'm not just setting up meetings with anymore. I love this guy. This is like one of those things because it will help.
00:20:27
Speaker
If I understand the hypothesis, it will help strip out the things like, you know, the personal charisma. And so i I know a number of people who over...
00:20:40
Speaker
trial and tribulation, you learn to keep it arm's length, right? You're like, yeah, yeah. I will see them at conferences. I'll say hi. but I'm not going to ask them for anything because it has never, it's always felt one way, right? But sometimes it took years to realize that.
00:20:56
Speaker
And what you're saying is that this trust score kind of helps remove maybe the razzle dazzle that kind of keeps you In their orbit, maybe longer than you should.
00:21:06
Speaker
Exactly. And for anyone who's a fan of Adam Grant, it identifies the takers. Yes, yes. And it helps you remove them from your daily orbit or if that person is actually an atrocious human being. Yeah.
00:21:20
Speaker
Then you can filter out all the assholes, but think about this in a systems level, right? What is, ah we build a friendship from this podcast and I learn how I can support you, which is a sincere offer, since you were trying to critique the crap out of me to make sure I know what I'm saying, which means you've given such intention to this so far.
00:21:38
Speaker
What if at some point somebody comes to you that you think is a great podcast guest, And they're a second gen wealth holder. They have a lot of stuff to talk about and everything that you guys dig into.
00:21:50
Speaker
What if we had a trust between us and you put that person into our private group and the system flagged to me and said, David, you've you blocked that person. Do you want to tell George K that this person is not somebody they should engage with?
00:22:05
Speaker
And again, premise being this is new to me and you, but I'm making it personal because we're both here and hopefully everyone listening. And then if I then say to you, not in, not in through technology, I message you and I go, Hey, I got a red flag. I need to tell you something. And we build enough trust that I leave my kids with you. And I say, stay away from Sarah.
00:22:23
Speaker
What would, what action would you do if I had spent that time the way you'd spent engaging in a conference with these people, but they always just ask and they never give. What if we could warn each other about the patterns of bad action and instead of just having that be a ah blocked list, what if we can then say, hey, you know would be a better podcast guest?
00:22:43
Speaker
Tina. Here's what she's done. She's hold her company three years ago. She's a billionaire cyber founder and you'll be like, I've been trying to meet her for years. And I'd be like, she's my best friend's wife. And like so we can lead with positive once we understand that trust is a completely gray scale from most trusted to least trusted. But the actions we take for others are completely quantifiable. And no one spends 100 hours with somebody that they hate unless they have to work with them.
00:23:11
Speaker
No one spends 1,000 hours co-investing with somebody that they think is a bad investor. And so there's a way to quantify that because when you look at the anomalies of time, there's no there's no anomaly where somebody makes a mistake spending that much time with somebody to be in their top 25. Yeah, I mean, i can just think of any number of founding teams that could have benefited from knowing ahead of time, you know, always get like three founders and one of them, it's it's all the eighth grade science project over and over again, right? Where like two people do all the work and one person swoops in on the day of the presentation and get Yeah, see, i I was that shorter, especially in middle school, slightly heavier, curly haired kid who like no one thought was a leader at that time in my life. And like the good looking guy, one of them was called Landon. There were a couple others. Like everyone was like, man, your group did great.
00:24:09
Speaker
Then eventually my teachers started to notice that like every group I was in did really great, even though I never spoke because I was shy then. Yeah. And like, but this is also part of how our tech, when we white label it, works within corporations. Yeah.
00:24:22
Speaker
Who takes the intro? Who initiated it? Who never meets with Tom because Tom's the sexist pig and no women will meet with him privately anymore? yeah All of this is based on our time. So if it's an ethical way to connect, everything is opt-in and permission and consent the way we build it. And we built it and you trust the scoring.
00:24:41
Speaker
Then the system learns which trusted actions you take, which is only about giving or receiving and the balance of the two for every user.
00:24:55
Speaker
right, we'll be back after a short break. In the second half, we get into the technology that David is building to track these relationships and measure
Vulnerability & Curiosity in Connections
00:25:03
Speaker
trust. And then we'll get into something I think is the most underrated skill in any room, which is knowing how to be vulnerable enough that the right person actually wants to get to know you more.
00:25:21
Speaker
I want to get a little bit into like the skill. This is a technology that you have built, but you, David, have honed these networking instincts and skills over many years, right?
00:25:33
Speaker
And you have framed vulnerability and curiosity as core principles for building community. i I guess I want to surface for listeners who are newer in their career. i I often encounter these people about like, how do you cultivate these, the skills that you've acquired over years? I don't mean to say like, how can they turn it on overnight, but what path would you set them down to hone? It's a muscle memory, right? You got to yeah you got to work it.
00:26:07
Speaker
i did I never did this right for a long time. I was actually really good at engaging the people and connecting, but I failed for years to demonstrate my value or ask for the value that I had.
00:26:20
Speaker
And so I'll give you, I'll give you a story. And what's interesting is I did the same thing in two different contexts. So I'll set up the context and I'll tell you the why. ah But everyone can be more curious.
00:26:32
Speaker
It's actually the best filter on the planet to be more vulnerable. And the more you can add diversity into your network, the better it is. Because if you talk in an eco-chamber who look like people who look like you and talk like you, honestly, it's the most limiting thing on the planet.
00:26:48
Speaker
I have raised money from billionaires philanthropic philanthropically or made connections in my business to billionaires for major investments. One of them happened through my friend's dog walker's friend. Another one happened by lending a vacuum cleaner to a friend's mom in college to clean her apartment.
00:27:04
Speaker
And the third one happened because I was at an event and somebody's kid ran head on into my balls. And then I was kind to the child because I should be And then I got a major job running a major organization.
00:27:17
Speaker
And so it is not a linear path of you network, you meet the right person, you meet the right person, you put your heads down, especially when AI is going to replace all of this. It is about becoming a peer to somebody or somebody they see could become a peer because they see themselves in you.
00:27:34
Speaker
And so I'm pretty audacious now with this because, you know, when you've written a book about it, and I, of course, I'd be shamelessly not to say, go read my book, Orchestrating Connection, How to Build Purposeful Community in a Tribal World. It's a playbook.
00:27:47
Speaker
It's not some academic thesis or some missive that says like, you should connect, you should gather, be a giver. It's a practical explanation of what I'm explaining now. So, at a major family office conference in l LA, billionaires sent to millionaires, Hollywood producers, a lot of different things. I had two interactions.
00:28:07
Speaker
At a low-key founders networking event on Zoom, I had the same two interactions. In both cases, the two people at once were talking to me and they asked me how I was doing.
00:28:22
Speaker
And since both of these were the first events that I had really attended since I lost my father last December, I said, I'm having a really hard time about to go on a stage. I learned how to speak just like my dad. My dad passed away December 1st. He was in hospice for a month. And before that, I thought I lost him four times. And like all I can think about is like my father.
00:28:45
Speaker
And the, at the in-person conference, this woman who everyone else would want to meet on this planet says, what are you going to be talking about? And this other guy says, I'm so sorry.
00:28:59
Speaker
i lost my mother 25 years ago, but I still think of her every day. It's a, it's a fear that you're going to stop thinking that keeps you thinking, but it's also a loss that you feel will never go away because it never goes away.
00:29:12
Speaker
And I stopped talking to the person that was one of the major speakers at this conference, and I turned and talked to this other guy who would now I've built a deeper friendship with. I learned his name after we built that connection.
00:29:25
Speaker
He turned out to be also one of the most prominent attendees at this family office event, one of the largest dynasty families on this planet. I don't care about that. He made me feel better about losing my dad.
00:29:38
Speaker
He was curious about me. We were curious about it. And then everything that happens after that, George, it's going to be relational because we built a foundation of trust around a shared vulnerability. I mean, damn. And the same thing. Yeah. That is like, i was just just going to say, that is, well, an incredible story, but also just a very powerful story.
00:29:58
Speaker
and salient counter example to what I feel like the zeitgeist would have you believe. Right? Find the person with the biggest title, the shiniest cars, the whatever ah boss vibes and like latch onto them. yeah you know, like,
00:30:18
Speaker
ah Wow. No, that's a very good point. And a a good way of, of um I guess, grounding the decision criteria if I wanted to be like really wonky about it. 100%.
00:30:30
Speaker
So the flip side, the two founders I talked to, they didn't have that experience. They were young in their early 20s. They'd fortunately have both parents living. One of them asked the same thing. what you What's your startup like? What are you working on?
00:30:42
Speaker
I didn't answer her. And the other one said, you know, I've not lost a parent yet. And i and i have I have young parents, but my best friend has older parents and he's fearful of that. What do you say to people who haven't lost?
00:30:55
Speaker
And I told him what it was like. And he's so he was just grateful. He paused in that moment with me. Then as I got to know him, he's like, you know, i think there's this one pre-seed investor that everyone says i need to talk to. Do you happen to know Will so-and-so? And I was like,
00:31:11
Speaker
I was just in his home in LA. This is my buddy. Of course I'll text him. You were a curious, empathetic human being. I'll look at your startup, but at least I'll get a call for you. You prove value in being curious, even if you couldn't share in the vulnerability.
00:31:27
Speaker
I do this now in every context I go into. It terrifies a lot of people when they realize like, I'm an expert on this with all these podcasts and bestselling book, but it doesn't, none of that matters. Yeah.
00:31:40
Speaker
I walked into a room feeling I was going to fight tears and have to escape it, even though I was a well-respected keynote at that conference and at this founders event. And the people who made me feel human and connected are the ones that I'm going to stick with and help because they built something with me that if any transaction happens, the foundation will always be there.
00:32:04
Speaker
Yeah. And I think what you've pointed out is this like two-way learning, which is You had to, you know, kind of expose a very real pain and that kind of provides an avenue, right? And then what you're doing is i have, I have taken one step towards you by offering something personal about myself and I now have a way to measure the response, right? Either, you know, you just respond transactionally to me you
00:32:36
Speaker
or flippantly, um or you connect with the thing that I have put forward, which is, feels more like, I don't, like an emotional handshake, essentially. Like they have met you where you are. Absolutely. and then you build from there.
The Role of Vulnerability in Follow-Ups
00:32:50
Speaker
And since I built tech for this now, there is a hundred percent likelihood, now that I've been tracking this in my network, from that vulnerability, that emotional handshake of a follow-up meeting or a chain of WhatsApp messages or emails,
00:33:04
Speaker
that can last longer. And you think of the number of times you go to a conference or an event, you collect cards and maybe 10 or 20% the people write you back. I hit it out of the park a hundred percent of the time now.
00:33:17
Speaker
I only exchange my info with those I have that, that handshake with. But when I do that at a conference and I meet 30 people and I have 30 responses, that is a crazy good ah ROI for raising money for my next a round of my startup, for getting keynote opportunities from it, or most important, meeting somebody who could help you or somebody else I can't help, which is what my ultimate value i try to bring in meeting other people is.
00:33:42
Speaker
Well, yes, and I think if we follow this to its logical end state, what you're saying is like, yes, you and other people around you have personally benefited from these connections, intros, otherwise friendship.
00:33:56
Speaker
Great. um But it's not like you... It's not... This is very hard because um i feel like I'm really like swimming upstream against internet culture. What you're not doing is...
00:34:08
Speaker
going in with that as the intention. Like I am meeting this person to convince them to invest in my startup. Yeah. So what you don't see on my Instagram or my LinkedIn is when I met Reid Hoffman or Steven Spielberg or Julianne Moore or the number of times because I worked with Ray Dalio that are there, me with Ray and his family. You don't see me in these events where I'm in the flashy social media world of look who I got a selfie with.
00:34:38
Speaker
In my world, right, I ran a panel at this LA conference. Everyone in the group came to it because of two of the three panelists, the third one is incredible but not as known.
00:34:48
Speaker
One was my buddy Zach, who's part of my network. And I actually am in saying this, realize I need to call him back, whose father was the late Robin Williams. And the other was my friend Gary, who, you know, in the 90s, you know, produced this movie that, you know, sort of launched Julia Roberts' career called Pretty Woman.
00:35:06
Speaker
And so these are people that everyone was sought after. And for me, they were doing me a favor because I helped them. So if you want to understand where networking works differently, the outcome I have is a higher response rate with a larger, trusted, respected network of the people people dream of maybe paying to get to.
00:35:24
Speaker
And I'm going, when when can I get back to them? How do I do them more favors? Who can they meet for me? I took this as a patient system. Now it is a quick acting, fast system where when I say, oh, here's to that founder, here's that VC they need to meet. I text the guy. He goes, cool. Here's my personal Calendly. make sure it happens in the next week.
00:35:45
Speaker
nice So people people pay for this. They want to to get that access. Broker deals try to sell it from cold call lists. And I'm sitting on an actionable list of a, oh my God, I know these people.
00:35:57
Speaker
And they're thinking, David helped me when no one else asked. Yeah, I mean, trust is a currency that is in short supply. So, um yeah.
00:36:11
Speaker
Well, David, I know ah you're limited on time, but I want to thank you for taking the time to sit with us. And this has been really helpful in, I think, articulating some of the things that we've talked about on the show.
00:36:26
Speaker
but i But I think your stories have helped make it more real rather than like, oh, this is a prescriptive, this is why you should do it, right? It's illustrative of the value in doing it. So yes, thank you again for the time and your attention.
00:36:44
Speaker
It's a pleasure. I appreciate everything that we've been able to talk about. um Can I just add one more thing? Do it. So everyone hears me talk about this. Sometimes they read my book, they miss the part in the fifth principle around gratitude and honor that really matters. And they think, well, i need to now go out and need to meet all these people that are going to become substantial for me.
00:37:05
Speaker
And what I would say to everyone, regardless of where they are in their life or career, think about those people, whether it was intentional or not, who were not only there for you when you needed it most, not when you're in some place of excellent, you know awesome abundance.
00:37:22
Speaker
Say thank you to them. Just say thank you. Make no ask. But think about this, George. When was the last time somebody called you and said thank you for something substantial you did for them?
00:37:36
Speaker
You're right. I think we live in a time period where, again, the time horizon is so compressed that you'll get the thank you for the intro, but it's harder to see those like downstream years later.
00:37:48
Speaker
oh if I had taken that job instead of the one you recommended, like I would be miserable or that company closed or whatever. Yes, I think. And I think what you're saying is like, yes, extend that time horizon. And if no one hears that, which is the truth, it's less than 10 percent of people get thanked for the substantial thing that they
Expressing Gratitude to Deepen Connections
00:38:05
Speaker
do.
00:38:05
Speaker
If no one hears that, then you're the first person in months, weeks, years to tell somebody that they you're grateful. It immediately imprints them to you as them seeing you as somebody who is honorable,
00:38:19
Speaker
and then it is Also, honor is in short supply. Honor is also in short supply. But gratitude to honor. And then what happens from gratitude to honor, because this is a circle, this is a loop, is the person without you asking either then or later will call you up and go, well, what are you doing now?
00:38:34
Speaker
How can I be more helpful? Because if you were the only one to thank me and I was important by helping you, then can I be important again? Can I be honored? Can I be valued? And this is the practice that changes the system of this from a different way to network,
00:38:49
Speaker
to something that is just more intentional and personable. And if everyone listening were to simply call up two people, watch what happens within three months to your life from expressing that gratitude and then watch how often you are waiting for it to come to you and when it does come.
00:39:06
Speaker
Version one, be grateful back. Version two, if it doesn't come, realize you failed in one thing, which is that you made an intro. You did something for somebody. You didn't ask them to honor it. Because once we're put on that pedestal, there's honor or dishonor.
00:39:21
Speaker
No one wants to be dishonorable in every culture, every language. And that practice of gratitude is what I want to leave everyone with because there's a way to think about this and go, all right, I can see it differently, but to take an action of gratitude, you will then start to experience it.
00:39:36
Speaker
No, that's a powerful place to end. So yes, thank you for adding that.
00:39:41
Speaker
All right. Well, I hope to run into you soon. And yeah, we'll we'll pick up the conversation next time. Perfect. Thank you for the time. And I appreciate everyone listening.
00:39:53
Speaker
All right, that's a wrap. I love that David left us with some homework. So that's the ask for you all, our listeners. Find two people who were there for you when it mattered and just say thank you. No pitch, no agenda.
00:40:05
Speaker
And then the question that I'd like to leave you with, who are you actually building with versus who are you just collecting in your network? And when was the last time you made yourself the person in the room that someone else was looking to connect with?
00:40:21
Speaker
Take those forward and we will see you again next week.
00:40:29
Speaker
If you like this conversation, share it with friends and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts for a weekly ballistic payload of snark, insights, and laughs. New episodes of Bare Knuckles and Brass Tacks drop every Monday.
00:40:42
Speaker
If you're already subscribed, thank you for your support and your swagger. Please consider leaving a rating or a review. it helps others find the show. We'll catch you next week, but until then, stay real.