Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Doctor who quit to go work in quality improvement!
10 Plays5 days ago
Malvika left clinical medicine to work in quality improvement, she tells us what its like to feel valued in her team and some of the big differences in her life after leaving!
Check out her Linkedin!
Other helpful links:
https://www.amazingif.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/Tool-%E2%80%93-Exploring-your-values.pdf
https://www.nes.scot.nhs.uk/news/introducing-the-quality-improvement-zone/
Recommended
Transcript
Malvika's Career Shift: From Medicine to NHS Corporate Role
00:00:03
Speaker
I had a journey of applying to more than 200 jobs. That was more of the wake-up call that I needed to think, can I actually get off the treadmill? Every single one said, that's amazing, you're so brave.
00:00:14
Speaker
If I don't take the risk, will I regret it more? i never dread a Monday morning, and it can be much better.
00:00:24
Speaker
Hello and welcome to today's episode of Leaving Med. Today we are interviewing Malvika who has left working as a doctor to work still for the NHS but working on the corporate side in quality improvement and she's been doing that for over a year now so she's going to tell us all about it today.
00:00:44
Speaker
So tell me a little bit about what it is that you're you're working in at the moment. So I'm currently an associate quality improvement advisor for one of the NHS hospitals in Edinburgh.
00:00:59
Speaker
Okay. Sounds fancy. how how How did you end up doing that then? To be honest, I um kind of found myself in a trance applying for multiple different roles in the middle of the night and somehow stumbled onto this one and it just felt right.
00:01:20
Speaker
I feel like I had a journey of applying to more than 200 jobs. and this one just really sat right with me and it felt right and you know it just kind of fell into place right okay so let's go back a little bit to so you're working as a doctor in the UK and then at what point did you think no I can't do this anymore I want to leave To be honest, I never actually myself came to the conclusion that I wanted to leave medicine.
Reevaluating Career Choices: Inspired by 'Squiggly Careers'
00:01:52
Speaker
I finished my F2 and then I went straight into applying for trust grade jobs. And, you know, the hospital was being kind of a bit um hard to get.
00:02:05
Speaker
Oh, we don't have jobs. No, we don't have vacancies. um And at that point, I was I was really burnt out. I was really, really struggling mentally and physically with my health. And so I decided I'm going to take a break and I'm going to come back to medicine.
00:02:20
Speaker
That was always the plan. And um I kind of packed up in the uke from the UK, went back home um to where my parents live. And it was my mom who had a look at me and just said, you look miserable.
00:02:34
Speaker
You're so miserable. If you're miserable two years in, You know, this is the rest of your life. It's not going to get better from here. It's going to get harder. um And I think that was more of the wake up call that I needed to think, can I actually get off the treadmill? Like, is there actually other places to be?
00:02:52
Speaker
think it's just our identities are so tied to the job that it's almost impossible to look outside of it. Yeah, I mean, and sometimes it does take family to see that and and flag up to especially because they're usually the first port of call when it comes to, you know, complaining about the job and and that sort of thing.
00:03:11
Speaker
So you can't you struggle to find a trust grade job. You go home. What's the sort of time period, time scale of all this? So I started F1 in the middle of COVID.
00:03:26
Speaker
um I finished F1 December 2022 because I was out of sync because of COVID. um And then i took all of 2023 um And the plan was to um just take a break for six months.
00:03:44
Speaker
And then I promised myself that after six months, I would recuperate and um start looking for jobs again. And I thought that would be a medical job. Turned out not to be by the time I'd finished that six months.
00:03:58
Speaker
um me So it took it almost took me six months to find a new job, though. And so what sort of jobs were you looking for? Was this just medical jobs?
00:04:09
Speaker
ah By the time that I got to that the part of my year when I decided i want to look for a new job, I'd already decided that I didn't want to stay in medicine anymore. um And it was really hard because there's just so many different things you can do. Once you start looking, it's really overwhelming.
00:04:28
Speaker
you can kind of go into absolutely anything. um There's this lovely podcast called Squiggly Careers, ah which I listened to, which basically highlights how other people look at their jobs and their careers and they look at it as like a squiggly ah journey. It's not like a straight you know yellow brick road.
00:04:48
Speaker
um And so that kind of just opened my mind and I thought there is so many possibilities. I don't know what to do. I don't know where to start. And the more I looked, the more I saw that people had gone into all sorts of things, you know, from finance to NGOs to consulting. There were so many options.
00:05:07
Speaker
And the thing that helped me the most was to sit down and understand what was my issue with medicine? What was the problem with clinical medicine that I was facing? And then work backwards from there.
00:05:19
Speaker
So i think a pros and cons list is wonderful. Everyone should make a pros and cons list. I remember had a really long cons list and a very short pros list.
00:05:31
Speaker
And then I kind of sat with the cons and I thought, what is what is at the bottom of all of this? What is the um source of all of this? And I realized that I had faced a lot of moral injury, which is quite common in people who've been through um things like war but also lot of healthcare workers after covid had a lot of moral injury which was basically that you had witnessed things that were against your principles your morals or the way you thought the world should work um and at that point i thought okay well this is the if this is the source if this is the problem what are my morals what are my values i had to name them um
00:06:20
Speaker
There's lovely sources online, there's ChatGPT now, so you can you know go on an exploration of your values. And I think those words, those keywords, those things that I live my life ah for and with really helped me.
00:06:37
Speaker
And i kind of took my values and then tried to find a job that was aligned to my values. And so most of my values are around impact.
00:06:50
Speaker
um and around, um you know, I knew I didn't want to be in a health, like in a healthcare care setting that was private. I didn't want to um you know, take advantage of people for money. That was never the goal.
00:07:02
Speaker
And I wasn't leaving for money. I was leaving for very different reasons.
Navigating the Job Market: Skills and Career Progression
00:07:05
Speaker
And so I tried to align the job with the things that I was leaving for and the impact that I wanted to create in the world. I think that really helped me narrow down what I wanted to apply for.
00:07:15
Speaker
so you had impact on that list um what else was on your list of values uh so i think that my number one was freedom i think that was one of the things i was really struggling with in medicine um especially being on a visa you can't really go down more than 80 percent um you know the rota kind of dictates your life um and as like As a junior doctor, you don't really have as much autonomy either. you you know You're kind of constrained. You're working within very specific
00:07:46
Speaker
um
00:07:49
Speaker
requirements almost. um And so my life felt very constricted. I couldn't get annual leave when I wanted. i couldn't go home to visit my family. I couldn't travel. Those things really affected me a lot.
00:08:01
Speaker
Those are my main ones, freedom and impact. And that's how I navigate the world and make all my decisions. And I wasn't feeling like I was creating the impact in the world that I wanted.
00:08:12
Speaker
And I wasn't free in the setup as I saw it. Yeah, because you know a lot of people go into medicine because they want to make you know a positive impact on people's lives and working as a doctor is high in impact. But as you say, it's that sort of balance between all the the negative things that tip it over into being unsustainable as a job.
00:08:39
Speaker
think also about perspective because um you can look at medicine and think I'm creating a really big impact. And then the same person, a different person could be doing the exact same job and think I'm not creating enough of an impact.
00:08:53
Speaker
I think it's about perspective really does play a role. Like how do you almost the lens that you're looking at the world with and you're looking at your job with.
00:09:04
Speaker
um So the same thing can be really impactful for one person, but not very impactful for another. Yeah, and at the end of the day, as as a doctor, you you're only treating that one person in front of you at that time.
00:09:18
Speaker
Although people will always remember, you know, the doctor that was there for them when their family member was dying, or maybe that GP that's been with their family their whole life. But then in sort of what you're doing now, you have that opportunity to have maybe ah a larger impact because you're implementing change that affects more people, isn't it? Yeah, I think it was also about just the perspective of even just with that person, with that patient, I felt like I couldn't go far enough because the system was failing them again and again.
00:09:47
Speaker
And I just kind of got stuck in that loop. I couldn't look past that. It was like I could have done everything perfectly. i could have gone above and beyond. And I still didn't feel like that patient was getting as much as they could have if that systemic failure.
00:10:01
Speaker
you know, constraint wasn't there. And, you know, it's easy to blame the system. It's very difficult to change it. um And it's just about where you want to create that impact in your life.
00:10:13
Speaker
Yeah. So so you, you know, you wrote this list of the values that are important to you. And then when you were looking at jobs, how did you kind of were you just looking at everything and anything or how did you sort of narrow it down into what field you wanted to go into?
00:10:32
Speaker
So I think I decided I wanted to be in public healthcare. I think I decided that I didn't want to be in private. It just didn't align with my values. um And then in public health care, there was a lot of different things that I wanted to explore.
00:10:45
Speaker
So there was user experience, there was research, there was products, IT, startups.
00:10:56
Speaker
um And I think we in medicine don't really realize how difficult the job market is, especially as the economy gets worse. It's harder and harder to find a job.
00:11:08
Speaker
On top of that, I was trying to find a job with a visa. um And so it is kind of a numbers game. You kind of have to you know apply to everything and anything, interview for many things, and then narrow it down from there.
00:11:23
Speaker
um And even to the point that... everything like I didn't have a specific job I wanted to go to, but I did realize that it was always going to be a stepping stone. It was not going to be the final thing that I settled in.
00:11:38
Speaker
So I was happy to have any kind of stepping stone because the point is to be in it for a year or two, build up the skills you want, and then you know step somewhere else.
00:11:50
Speaker
So it was almost trying to make any kind of, you know get your foot in the door or any kind of lateral move. I think that that um we have this perception in medicine that you just get on the treadmill and you know it's a very specific path. You follow the path, you do the things and you get to your destination.
00:12:07
Speaker
in ah in In the job market outside of medicine, you kind of have to have a few stepping stones. You're gonna have jobs you don't like, you're gonna have jobs that are not perfect. but you're going to basically learn things on the way there.
00:12:21
Speaker
And it's about how do you sell what you've learned rather than what exactly are you doing that matters more outside of medicine, I think. Yeah, that definitely makes sense. And it's sort of, you know, thinking some people might think, oh, well, I'm not going to leave until I find the perfect job because it's too much of a risk or it's, you know, it's step down in pay or something like that but it's sort of thinking of it more as an investment into your future and and realizing that it's going to take a little bit of a while to get there um and from every job it's it's learning what you do and don't like about that field or that specific job isn't it so so you found this job that you're working in now um can you tell me a little bit more about what what the job involves
00:13:13
Speaker
We've got a quality improvement team across the trust um that works across all the different hospitals in the trust, and they work together as a big directorate.
Day in the Life: Quality Improvement Advisor
00:13:23
Speaker
And then every single hospital in our trust has their own quality improvement team.
00:13:29
Speaker
And we basically coordinate the quality improvement across the site, but we also pick up bigger projects on our own.
00:13:40
Speaker
And we kind of have our own specialty. So I'm specifically the quality improvement advisor for the front door. So I only work in medicine and mostly at the front door. We've got someone who has a special interest in cancer. We've got someone who has a special interest in surgery.
00:13:55
Speaker
um So the work is kind of independent. You're independently managing multiple projects, but you're also in a team and you know have management and um support from the entire team.
00:14:08
Speaker
But it's more of a facilitating improvement rather than doing it yourself, but at a bigger scale in the hospital. Right. So who who who are you overseeing that does the improvement?
00:14:21
Speaker
So ideally, improvement should always be done by the people working in the system. So for example, if the front door, if you know the emergency department, they want to do something related to their triage or um you know, some kind of quality improvement um project, they should be leading it. I should be facilitating it.
00:14:42
Speaker
So you don't want to do improvement to people because they won't accept the change. They have to be involved in the change themselves. We kind of just help them with the analysis, with the journey um and like structure everything.
00:14:58
Speaker
But ideally, it should be done by the person experiencing the change. So do do they tend to come to you with project ideas or is it something that you reach out to staff kind of trying to to prompt prompt these projects to be initiated or...?
00:15:16
Speaker
So they kind of work in both ways. um There's projects that the staff will bring to us and say, hey, this is a really big problem that we're trying to solve. Can you help us? And then, you know, other things will be like the government has said, you need to meet the four hour target.
00:15:32
Speaker
Or, you know, the CEO has said that this is a problem. um Or, you know, we're looking at our data and finding, you know, we're making a lot of errors in this area or there's a lot of harm in this area and then we kind of work through that but it works both ways.
00:15:48
Speaker
So what does the day-to-day look like then for you? um So it it varies because I also work hybrid but at any given point I have um a few projects that I'm working on um and depending on what that project needs and what kind of work I'm doing on the day is how I set myself up.
00:16:11
Speaker
So um a lot of the times we are setting up the infrastructure for someone to do a quality improvement project. So we'll be observing a department to understand how they work.
00:16:24
Speaker
We'll be mapping out their processes. um We will then create a plan with everyone. We'll be in meetings with all the staff, we'll be in meetings with managers and you know the directors of the hospital, trying to understand what do we want to do what's our plan for the improvement.
00:16:45
Speaker
And then we'll go into the actual phase of improvement, the r PDSA cycles. We help with data collection, we help with data analysis. We're then presenting the data and then deciding next steps from that.
00:17:00
Speaker
We might also be sharing it across the site to say, hey, this is this thing has really worked well in this area. Why don't you try it? Or we tried this in this area, it didn't work.
00:17:10
Speaker
Maybe it's not worth replicating everywhere else. It's kind of it's so varied and we work across the entire quality improvement journey. um So it could be that I'm running around doing observations or you know creating different tools, but I also might be just at home doing some data analysis, creating an Excel sheet for someone.
00:17:35
Speaker
So it really, really varies. And it sounds to me like you might... create your own sort of deadlines in a way if you're leading all these projects?
00:17:46
Speaker
There is seasonality in medicine. You know, like winters are really tough for everyone. There's more people in the hospital. There's more pressures. um So a lot of our stuff just completely goes to a halt in winter.
00:17:59
Speaker
And then summer is the time that everyone has time to do improvement projects. You know, the trainees are coming in. They want to do new things in August. So it kind of varies with seasons, um but we might have deadlines from the government. We might have deadlines from finance.
00:18:13
Speaker
we you We have internal deadlines, but it's not as strict and drawn in stone. Sometimes it is just like, I'm waiting for this piece of data. I'm waiting for analysis.
00:18:26
Speaker
And if you don't mind me asking, what what does the pay um look like and and how does it compare to sort of where you left as an So um I'm currently on a band six.
Comparing Roles: Medicine vs. Quality Improvement
00:18:40
Speaker
So the and NHS kind of has pay bands. um So I'm on a band six as an associate. um And that means that um in my first and second year, I take ยฃ37,000
00:18:53
Speaker
ah before taxes. um So it kind of ends up being around ยฃ2,500 per month. It's very similar to what I took home as an f two and that's for working 37 and a half hours.
00:19:08
Speaker
So it's, I mean, I wouldn't say it's more pay, it's almost the same, but for way less work. And I also work flexible hours. i have a compressed work week, so I only work nine days out of 10 in two weeks.
00:19:24
Speaker
Yeah. so it sounds almost like you've moved across slightly up in pay, isn't it? Okay. And in this role, what sort of future career options are there or pay increases are there for this role?
00:19:44
Speaker
So as I said, um, you do have to think of your career as more of stepping stones rather than a treadmill. um There is a treadmill option.
00:19:55
Speaker
So if I wanted to go from associate quality improvement advisor, I can go to quality improvement advisor and then, you know, like higher management in quality, head of quality. So you can go up that um treadmill or you can start moving laterally.
00:20:12
Speaker
um So it's more of the skills. So now I have data skills. I have quality improvement skills. I'm doing a leadership program um that's offered by the government. um So it's building all those skills to now move across laterally into anywhere I want to go.
00:20:29
Speaker
Technically, if I wanted to be the CEO of a trust, I could be. ah If I wanted to go into consulting, I can go into quality improvement in petroleum. I can go anywhere.
00:20:41
Speaker
It's about, you know, building up those skills and then finding where do you want to um hop and skip and jump. um it's It's not really as linear.
00:20:55
Speaker
ah So you can kind of go anywhere. Okay, so you could go and work in quality improvement for a random industry, random company. My manager came from quality improvement in tires and concrete, I think, for building.
00:21:13
Speaker
it's It's a skill you can use anywhere. And for you now, you've been in this role for ah year, is that right? Yeah. have you Are you planning on jumping or hopping anywhere soon?
00:21:27
Speaker
um So I'm thinking about it. I think I'm thinking about where do I want to go next? um I miss being ah more clinical.
00:21:37
Speaker
um So I do miss ah you know having those patient stories. And I think even when I'm doing work now where it's more related to patient safety and patient stories, I really enjoy those a bit more.
00:21:48
Speaker
um So I'm trying to find that balance of still wanting to be on the corporate side, um still ah being in quality improvement and you know still utilizing data to make systemic change, but maybe being a bit more specifically involved with patient safety.
00:22:08
Speaker
Are there any specific projects that you found interesting or that you've enjoyed? Yeah. and I think, as I was saying, like the stuff where I get to be involved in more patient related stuff is more fun for me.
00:22:26
Speaker
So at the front door, um I've done a big piece around triage. We're doing a ah piece of around frailty at the front door. I really enjoy those bits. I've worked in the emergency department before. i like acute settings.
00:22:39
Speaker
um So I really like those bits of my work a lot. And specifically where there's really large data sets, I have become someone who's obsessed with Excel.
00:22:51
Speaker
I love it so much. It is my new personality. And i can if someone gives me a really large data set, I can just spend days with it, not looking anywhere, being in a flow state.
00:23:03
Speaker
And I really, really enjoy that work. flow state and excel that's a that's a niche right there um i can't say i've ever done that um so did you have anything you know specific on your cv that sort of made them want to hire you or what what would you say is needed in order to to start in a role like this So um i think we really underestimate ourselves as doctors.
00:23:36
Speaker
Being someone who has an expertise in medicine is quite a huge thing. And on the corporate side, actually, most people on the senior side are nurses.
00:23:49
Speaker
um or they are you know business graduates. um So having that knowledge of how things actually happen on the floor, how doctors ah work and respond um on a daily basis, what are the kind of pressures they face is really key. And then you know you're able to kind of um use that in the role and really create a niche for yourself because you have that expert ah knowledge from the ground.
00:24:18
Speaker
um But I think the one thing that really helped my CV was that I had a really good quality improvement project. So I'd done one in the emergency department when I was in and we were able to make a sustainable long-term change where we changed our local guidelines.
00:24:37
Speaker
That, I think, was the most impressive thing on my CV. And that's the thing that actually made me um the preferred candidate. It was because I'd done quality improvement, multiple cycles of it,
00:24:49
Speaker
and made a sustained change. So if if there's something like that, you know, where most of the time our quality improvement projects, we do like, we make a poster, we do some teaching and then we move on and then no one's actually doing, the the the improvement hasn't actually lasted after we've left, we're on rotational basis.
00:25:11
Speaker
um But we were actually able to, you know, have it ingrained into the hospital's guidelines. um So trying to have that sustained change, that sustainable change, things that actually continue to improve, I think is key.
00:25:27
Speaker
Yeah, that's that's helpful. um It always just feels like that extra thing that you have to squeeze in in your minimal spare time, though doesn't it? think often when you're working, you're you've got so many ideas and you're like, oh, if only this or this would make a great QI project.
00:25:46
Speaker
But it is hard to to put that into practice, isn't it? but I think the thing we really struggle with is that we try to go really big. um So if I was to, as a junior doctor, think of like, you know, doing a multiple cycle QI project, I would start with like 30 patients and then that would be one cycle.
00:26:09
Speaker
And then I would, you know, wait for two months and then do another really big collection of data for my second cycle. But in reality, We start really, really small.
00:26:20
Speaker
So trying one thing with one doctor on one single patient is one cycle. And then doing you know learning from that and then doing it to ah one more patient or two more patients is the second cycle.
00:26:36
Speaker
It can be really, really small. And you can grow it very, very slowly. And the best projects actually start off really small. And I think we forget that.
00:26:47
Speaker
So I would say start off really small. you know One PDSA cycle can be done in five minutes if you start small enough. And then you can just move from that. And it's those things that you've tried really, really robustly in a really small population that will be of value and you know be taken over really quickly.
00:27:11
Speaker
um by people because they've seen it tried robustly in really, really small populations and see it work. So they'll be less less resistant to the change as well. And that's how you incorporate things um into the system long term.
00:27:27
Speaker
You don't have to start big at all. Start tiny. One cannula, one patient, so really, really small, and then go up from there.
00:27:39
Speaker
I remember when I was working in OBS and Gynae, I found it so stressful because you're basically at a ah cannula monkey and you sort of, just got to urgently put in these gray cannulas in these women who are in labor.
00:27:52
Speaker
um And all they, you know, they've spiked a temperature and so you have to do a sepsis screen for these, these women in labor. And then the bloods trolley was different to the where they kept the blood cultures and you know everything was scattered and so it took you far too long to find what you needed.
00:28:10
Speaker
And so reached such frustration that I like, right, I'm reorganizing the bloods trolley. I'm going to create it in a systematic way and like put labels at the bottom of each thing so that hopefully it's refilled in the same place.
00:28:23
Speaker
um But naturally then the person who then comes along and refills it just shoves whatever in whatever drawer where it's always been, you know? um and I was like, oh my God, imagine if you just had a universal bloods and cannula and blood culture bottle that was like the same across all hospitals.
00:28:42
Speaker
Because even like, was trying to find a blood culture bottle sometimes, isn't it? I was like, how has this not been done? Why is every single blood trolley organized in a completely different way when that is like, I need that blood gas syringe now for, a you know, so in an arrest or something like that yeah but that was like the the main time that I was like I really wish I could do this as like a QI project ah but then you just you know naturally move on to the job and now I'm working in GP so you know it's not so relevant to me anymore but um yeah I think that was
00:29:19
Speaker
I always think about that. we We forget, like, there's this beautiful quote that I remember someone told me in my first few weeks of starting, that a system is designed perfectly for the results that it does achieve.
00:29:32
Speaker
And it blew my mind. And it was almost like, wait, so it doesn't really matter how hard I work or you know what I do differently every single day. The system is designed for exactly the results it's getting.
00:29:47
Speaker
And so to change the results, you have to change the system. it's not It shouldn't be dependent ah on how hard someone works. you know you should You should be trying to change the underlying structure that's making you work at 150% generate any results at all.
00:30:01
Speaker
to generate any results at all Yeah. And there's so I think it's always the little things that make that make the job far more stressful than they need to be. like It's always finding things. You can never find the things you need and you're on call covering like nine different wards.
00:30:18
Speaker
And it's just like, if only could find the things I needed. Can you imagine that happening in like an Amazon warehouse where they can't find your parcel? I know you order something on Amazon and then 30 minutes later, it's like, it's been dispatched.
00:30:31
Speaker
You think that level of efficiency, you know, it's what we should aspire to, isn't it Someone's working for that. someone And that's just for profit. That's not for saving lives, isn't it? Exactly.
00:30:42
Speaker
We just need to take that and use it here. Yeah. Can I ask you, um what did your friends think when you said, oh, actually, I'm not going to continue working as a doctor. I've got this other job in this, you know, corporate side.
00:30:58
Speaker
So it's really interesting because...
Supportive Reactions: Leaving Medicine
00:31:02
Speaker
I personally had a lot of guilt for leaving. And you know this was my identity. This was something I'd worked so long for.
00:31:09
Speaker
um And then a lot of my friends are medics. So these are people that I'm leaving you know to do something else, um to take care of my own health. um And so I had a lot of guilt.
00:31:23
Speaker
But funnily enough, every single medic I've left, like I've i've told or I've met after I've left, has never asked me why did you leave.
00:31:33
Speaker
Not a single one of them. Every single one said, that's amazing, you're so brave. That says so much, doesn't it? So even the even the consultants I meet now at my work today, um when they find out I was a doctor, they were like, good job on getting out.
00:31:50
Speaker
And that just says so much, doesn't it? Because we look at them as the you know final result. When I'm a consultant, it'll all be great. you know I'll have a good life. For them to turn around and say, good job.
00:32:03
Speaker
getting out for all of my friends, every single one of them, not a single one of them questioned my decision. Everyone just said, you're so brave. I wish I could have done that. Yeah.
00:32:15
Speaker
We don't need to ask you, what is it that, you know, you struggled with in medicine or why did you feel the need to leave? I think, yeah, everyone can empathize with that. Um, and it is, and it is brave, you know, to, to leave and venture and do something different because, you know,
00:32:33
Speaker
We've been, had our eye on being a doctor since we were 17. know seventeen in most most cases. um And it's hard to think outside the box and to leave that, you know, so-called security behind, although it seems like now it's becoming less secure for the F2's finishing now.
00:32:54
Speaker
um Yeah, it is is a big leap in faith. For me, I just thought, if I don't take the risk, will I regret it more? Or if I take the risk, hate it, and then come back to medicine a year later, will I regret that more?
00:33:10
Speaker
I think there's no shame in trying something else and saying, hey, that didn't work for me. I think I'm going to go back to where I was. But having not tried it, it'll always haunt you.
00:33:21
Speaker
Yeah, medicine is not going anywhere.
00:33:26
Speaker
What is the best part now of your new life, let's say?
Hybrid Working: Impact on Job Satisfaction
00:33:32
Speaker
I mean, hybrid working is amazing. I love it. um I think my team is just so incredibly supportive and that makes the biggest difference.
00:33:43
Speaker
I mean, these people have just created such a supportive and psychologically safe environment for me. And i never felt that in medicine, unfortunately. I really wish I did.
00:33:54
Speaker
um But that makes the biggest difference. I never dread a Monday morning. Never. It's totally fine. I'm working from home. I'm going to you know be in a meeting with some of my favorite people. And we're going to make things better. We're going to work on things that are impactful and important.
00:34:12
Speaker
um And it's not to say that it's all rainbows and sunshine and sunshine all the time. I do get really frustrated sometimes, but it's a really small thing that makes such a big difference.
00:34:24
Speaker
Also, having my annual leave um approved immediately, as soon as I put it in, with no questions ever, is amazing. ah um Low-key, I was like, am I being gaslit? What's going on?
00:34:40
Speaker
Is this an error in the computer system? Yeah. And like I've taken some of my dream trips and, you know, been able to travel with my family and see my friends and attend their weddings. And it's the small things that really make a really big difference to your life. And I wish everyone had that.
00:34:55
Speaker
And i hope that we're moving toward that for everyone. Wow, not dreading Monday mornings. that's That's a claim. I used to start thinking about Monday morning on Saturday morning.
00:35:10
Speaker
and I had such an existential dread of Monday mornings. And now I'm just like, oh, Monday morning, Friday night. It's all the same. It's totally fine. I think F1 and F1 especially, was that Sunday dread of just in that pit in the pit of your stomach.
00:35:28
Speaker
ah you just I mean, I think it's gotten a little bit better now for me, but I definitely don't like Mondays. I used to have nightmares, all of F1 and F2, just about ECGs and bloods and candelas.
00:35:42
Speaker
ah coachsh yeah um But honestly, I think coming out of medicine has almost even given me the strength to go back in. I have been considering, you know, if I, if to advance in my career, if I wanted to ever go back, how would I do things differently? i have such a different mindset now. I've taken the time to take care of my health and become more resilient. So sometimes you just have to step out to step back in.
00:36:07
Speaker
to To heal. Obviously, coming from a place of immense privilege, you know, I was able to do that. I didn't have responsibilities. I didn't have a mortgage. And my parents were so supportive.
00:36:19
Speaker
So it's not an easy thing to do. But there is ways to do it while you're You know even in medicine, you can do stuff part time. You can build skills and just try to make the jump.
00:36:32
Speaker
But it's kind of intimidating when you say that you had to apply for 200 odd jobs. It does sound quite scary. The thing was, it also helped that I never got rejected ah from any jobs because I was unqualified.
00:36:48
Speaker
I was mostly overqualified um or I didn't meet the visa requirements. And I think that really... was something that made me realize that we have a lot of skills and we are really, really good undergraduate students.
00:37:07
Speaker
um And we've got such depth to us. um It's just about the way that you frame your experience outside of medicine. It's more about like how you've written your CV and how are you selling yourself rather than what you've actually done.
00:37:24
Speaker
Yeah, and it's sort of realising that those job requirements aren't set in stone. Oh, absolutely. Like, I had four weeks of training. I didn't have to know anything to come in here.
00:37:37
Speaker
So it was they were taking me for... you know, my medical knowledge and because I'd done a QI project before, but actually it's so it's done very differently when you do it on the corporate side versus when you do it, you know, as a junior doctor.
00:37:52
Speaker
Most jobs will train you. I was, I did not know how to do anything on Excel. I'm now like an advanced level acceler. So they they absolutely will train you. And I think they really um also, it's an it's an investment for them. They're investing in someone that they want to keep long-term, that they,
00:38:11
Speaker
um hope will give back.
00:38:15
Speaker
Have you got any advice for someone that might be starting to think about different options that they've got, sort of how to to process it or any tips?
Advice for Career Transition and Skill Building
00:38:29
Speaker
So I think first of all, it's really important to be clear on the why. Why are leaving? what is not don't Don't just talk about the surface level reasons. What is the real reason? At the core, what is the reason you're leaving?
00:38:44
Speaker
And then think about, okay, what aligns with my values, what kind of jobs. um Have that mindset of this is a stepping stone, it's not my final destination.
00:38:57
Speaker
And just start thinking about what skills do I need to build? um So if you if you just type um like quality improvement and NHS jobs.
00:39:11
Speaker
You can see old posts that people um have already like have already expired and people have already taken, but you can see the job specifications and you can start thinking about, okay, you know you can do Excel courses on YouTube.
00:39:26
Speaker
You can do a really good QI project and have it in hand. um whatever yourre Whatever the person's specifications for whatever job you're looking at. Just start looking at job boards.
00:39:37
Speaker
There's so many alternative career ah websites for medics. There's so many stories of medics who've left. LinkedIn is amazing. go on LinkedIn, stalk people, talk to people. There were so many amazing people who I reached out to them and they were so happy to help me and to give me advice.
00:39:58
Speaker
um It is you you do have to... walk out of your comfort zone a little bit. You do have to do a bit of networking. You do have to get out there and find what's going on.
00:40:09
Speaker
um But it's not as hard as you would think. It's not impossible at all. um And there's something for everyone. And, you know, like even specialty training, I know at the moment it's like 15 is to one competition ratio. That's not easy.
00:40:28
Speaker
Nothing is easy. Nothing will come to you easy. We've been working so hard. And a lot of the stuff you've already done, just said in the right way on your CV, can get you your dream job.
00:40:41
Speaker
You just have to look out there. just have Just go and talk to people, network. It's intimidating. There's no you know nice treadmill. There's no yellow brick road.
00:40:52
Speaker
um But it's kind of liberating that you can kind of piece together whatever you want. You can create your own life. You can, you know, and you're not stuck.
00:41:03
Speaker
You can always go back. You can say this was a wrong decision. You almost have to like push yourself out your comfort zone to realize all of this is temporary and everything is in your control.
00:41:15
Speaker
but try to try thing take control of the things that you can. Yeah, I mean, i think now with the competition ratios, there's going to be a lot of people actually seriously considering doing something different um whereas they might have just you know entered training because it wasn't that difficult to get into before say say for example uh gp training or something like that um whereas now even gp and imt are super competitive yeah
00:41:47
Speaker
It also helps to just have a coach.
Future Possibilities: Returning to Medicine?
00:41:49
Speaker
Like, honestly, if you are struggling and you're genuinely serious and you want to talk to someone, just reach out to me on LinkedIn. And I've had so many phone calls with so many medical students and FY2 doctors to just coach them through it.
00:42:03
Speaker
That's useful. And you mentioned that you're thinking about maybe going back into medicine in some form. What would that look like for you? i think for me personally,
00:42:18
Speaker
a future job requires me to be a consultant, I'd probably enter GP training because I know it would be easier to enter quick. There's a deadline, you know, there's a three-year training program, there's the deadline, I get my CCT.
00:42:32
Speaker
um And so I'm entertaining the idea, but I know I wouldn't want to be clinical full-time. I would always want to be on the corporate side. Yeah, it seems like such a mystery, this this corporate and NHS, because in a lot of ways, we don't really interact sort of day to day.
00:42:53
Speaker
Just seems to be all these offices in random hallways, isn't it? I didn't even know we had a quality improvement team in ah in hospitals. like I'd never come across them. um mean I didn't know there's a patient engagement team, there's a quality improvement team, there's an audit team, ah there's an assurance team, there's a governance team.
00:43:12
Speaker
There's a lot of stuff happening in the background. We just don't know about because we're too busy. Which one do you think is is the best one there to get into? I think it depends on what you want to do. Yeah, there's just, there's so many options and there's so many different personalities.
00:43:26
Speaker
um You know, do you want to work in a team? Do you want to work separately? Where do you want to create the impact? What kind of lifestyle do you want? don't think any there's no good and bad. And is there an opportunity for you to go part-time in this role?
00:43:41
Speaker
the future? So I'm on a visa at the moment. Once I get my settled status, I can go part-time. um But there's, on the corporate side, there's more of a chance to build like a portfolio career, which is basically that you do little bits and pieces of different things to create a full-time job.
00:44:03
Speaker
um So, you know, you could be doing quality improvement two days, clinical two days, and like consulting one day. You know, you could you could kind of have a mix, um but there are options for flexible working and compressed hours where you basically do the same amount of hours just in less days.
00:44:23
Speaker
So a lot of people are on a four-day work week. I'm on a nine-day fortnight.
00:44:30
Speaker
It just, it gives you that extra breathing room. So say if you were a GP and you wanted to get into quality improvement, would there be a way to go in and do it like two, three days a week then?
00:44:42
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I know consultant anesthetists who work in the hospital and also do quality improvement one or two days a week. There's definitely ways to get into it. I think you have to become a bit of a leader in quality improvement rather than just doing it on your own.
00:45:02
Speaker
There's lots of national programs, a lot of and NHS funded programs that you can you know learn how to be an improvement leader, get some um formal education on quality improvement. But there's loads of ways to have a bit of a back and forth kind of career.
00:45:20
Speaker
Interesting. For those who are currently working as a doctor, dreading it every day, what would you tell them?
00:45:31
Speaker
i i don't want to you know underestimate anyone's experience because I know it's really hard sometimes and you're going through a really tough time.
00:45:42
Speaker
But I'd say, firstly, try to take care of yourself. that will improve things so much. Even just you know being able to move a little bit more, feeding yourself on time, being more hydrated.
00:45:58
Speaker
All of these like human factors have a huge impact on your life. ah But also I would say, think about your perspective. Think about, are you being really harsh on yourself?
00:46:11
Speaker
You know, are you adding to your own despair and dread? um Is there a different way that you could think about things? um You know, there's ways to like CBT yourself and change your perspective.
00:46:26
Speaker
Is there ways that you could incorporate things either in work or outside of work that would make your life more fulfilling? You know, think don't think about the things you can't control. Think about the things you can control.
00:46:38
Speaker
What can I control? you know It might be having a nice meal, ah you know having a packed lunch, taking your break on time.
00:46:49
Speaker
It might be going maybe 80% and then doing a dance class on your days off or going to the gym on your days off. How can you make your life better? Take the tiniest step.
00:47:01
Speaker
It can be a 2% solution. And if your life is 2% better, that's still better. So you can make life 2% better tomorrow. And then another two day after and then move from there.
00:47:13
Speaker
any Any agency, anything that reduces that dread, anything that makes your overall life better will have knock on effects.
00:47:24
Speaker
And sort of finally, do you think it's worth making the leap?
00:47:30
Speaker
ah Personally, for me, it was very worth it. I don't regret it at all.
00:47:36
Speaker
I am very thankful for my position um and the support of my peers and my family. And I genuinely want to be able to help anyone who wants to make the leap.
00:47:49
Speaker
You can genuinely contact me on LinkedIn for free, have phone calls with me, and I will coach you through it. It's not worth being miserable for a very long time. Either you learn how to be happy in medicine or...
00:48:03
Speaker
you know You try to find it outside of that, either in your free time or by leaving. um i think at some point you do have to just realize you're on a treadmill and you do have agency and you can change things and ah and it can be much better.
00:48:20
Speaker
Thank
Offering Support: Malvika's Resources for Career Change
00:48:21
Speaker
you. And so if they wanted to contact you, so LinkedIn is the best way, is it? Yeah, absolutely. i also have a YouTube channel. um I can, if if there's a demand, i can, you know, if you have questions, you can send stuff and I can make videos for you.
00:48:38
Speaker
um But I will leave my LinkedIn. I will leave some resources with you where they can check them out and start under joining a little bit. Great. Great. Amazing. Thank you so much.