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Doctor who quit during F1 to become a medical writer!
10 Plays1 month ago
Grace left medicine 5 years ago and now works as a medical writer in the medical devices industry. She tells us about how she came to the decision to leave so early on in her career and how it's been going ever since!
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Transcript
Introduction to Grace's career transition
00:00:01
Speaker
lunch, just getting to have lunch. say that life's too short to hate your job. to Go and be free and be happy. you know, I really like my job and I'm pretty... living my best life.
00:00:14
Speaker
Hello and welcome to today's episode of Leaving Med. Today we are lucky to chat to Grace who used to be a doctor but now works in the medical devices industry as a medical writer.
00:00:26
Speaker
She left five years ago so we're going to find out how it's been going over the last five years and if she's glad she made the move.
Struggles and burnout in medical career
00:00:39
Speaker
So let's just jump right it in. um So what stage were you at in your medical career when you decided to leave? So I was mid F1, so very, very early on. um I'd done my first rotation, which was hell. It was diabetes and endocrinology, which, as I'm sure most medics know, is a bit of a dumping ground for anything and everything.
00:01:05
Speaker
So, you know, we regularly had 40 patients on the list. And sometimes you'd get in and you were the doctor on the rotor and you're doing a ward round and you're just like, this is not safe. This is horrible. And, um,
00:01:17
Speaker
I just hated it. I dreaded going to work every day. um i i was so, and as I'm sure a lot of people will will relate to, i felt so disappointed every day that every patient I'd seen had had subpar care, basically, because I was running around like I had this chicken.
00:01:37
Speaker
um But even by going above and beyond, you're never giving those patients the care they deserve. So I think that is just so – you feel so defeated all the time.
00:01:48
Speaker
um And, you know, ah everyone everyone says F1 is horrible and you've just got to get through the first few years. and um So, so I'd done my first rotation. Then I was midway – I'd started my second rotation, which was psych, and And I think think it was it was mainly that first rotation that had led to me wanting to leave.
00:02:13
Speaker
But I'd kind of been keep going, keep going, keep going, get on to psych because psych will be chill because everyone just says psych's an easy job. And actually it was kind of challenging in its own way. the The patients were really challenging.
00:02:26
Speaker
um And by that point, I just was so burnt out that I didn't have anything in the tank um to deal with.
Decision to leave medicine
00:02:35
Speaker
sort of aggressive patients and stuff like that so um I the way it all went down was that I had a meeting with my supervisor who was my consultant from the first job and she said how's it going because I was on psych by that point and I just burst into tears um and I just said you know like I'd hate it I dread going to work um she was amazing actually she she has like had she had such a huge influence on me leaving which sounds counterintuitive because she was my supervisor but she could see how unhappy I was and I remember her sort of asking me why can you remember why wanted to be a doctor and I literally couldn't even tell her um and she said what you know what
00:03:18
Speaker
what you're actually interested in. And I said, like, I always wanted to be an archeologist and I said, said that, you know, I'm what my interests were and stuff. And it, it was never science or medicine. You know, i just picked it as a job when I was 16.
00:03:31
Speaker
So she, she basically said, you know, you don't have to do it. And, and she actually first she said, why don't you have some time off? So i was essentially off on sick for a bit.
00:03:42
Speaker
And she was like, just take, I was like I can't, I can't, because then there'll be one doctor down on the ward. And you know, I'm fine. I don't need to be sick leave. And she was like, just take the time off. You're obviously like, in a hole. i And then see how you
Exploring new career options
00:03:55
Speaker
feel.
00:03:55
Speaker
um so yes, that was i'm I'm digressing. But that was the point I was at kind of mid F1. So you went off sick and then did you immediately start looking at other jobs or like what was the timescale?
00:04:12
Speaker
Yeah. So I think I left... Gosh, would it have been maybe like January or something? Can't quite remember. um And then I had like regular meetings with and i well, I kept in contact with my supervisor, but had meetings with the guy who was the um head of F1s in Sheffield.
00:04:32
Speaker
And and i I don't think I started looking for jobs. But I felt ah felt immediately better not being at work, obviously.
00:04:45
Speaker
And the only the only thing remaining was that I felt dread at the thought of going back. um And I distinctly remember my mum, I'm saying this to my mum, like basically, yes, I feel better, but I've got to go back. And she was like, you know, you don't have to do it.
00:05:01
Speaker
You don't have to go back. And that was like a massive revelation to me um because all along I've been thinking, well, Yes, I'm having this bit of time off and that's great, but I'm stuck in this. Like, this is what chosen.
00:05:14
Speaker
I've never even considered it was an option to not do it because, you know, everyone says, oh, all that training and, you know, all those years of of medicine and uni. and But my mum's saying, you know, you don't have to do it.
00:05:28
Speaker
was a huge turning point and her saying to me you know you could not go back that felt like an instant weight lifted like as if I don't have to go back into that hospital oh my god that would be the best thing to ever happen in the whole world so then and then I started obviously thinking what else could I do can't remember how I got it whether it was through it can't have been through the NHS. I think it was through my old uni. You can still access career services if you've not long graduated, like couple years after you graduated or something.
00:06:02
Speaker
um So like I did that, I went and saw like a career person and um but don't know how helpful that was really because I've obviously ended up staying vaguely medical, which I'm sure we'll come on to.
00:06:13
Speaker
um But that was one thing, a few more meetings with my supervisor, with the head of F1 and they were obviously all like, are you sure? Are you sure? And was like, yes. But I didn't have a job lined up or anything. So, you know, that was very scary. And um as I'm sure will come on to, a lot of people were saying, don't do it. You know, it's a mistake and everything.
00:06:34
Speaker
So, um yeah, that was that was where I was at at that point.
First steps in the medical devices industry
00:06:40
Speaker
And then once I'd officially, well, no, I think I hadn't officially done the, they all kept saying just kind of,
00:06:48
Speaker
keep don't make any decisions so i felt really bad that i was on sick leave because you feel like you don't you know look like you're some sort of fraud and like you know don't deserve to be on i don't deserve to be getting paid because i'm not working and you know they're short on the wards but the guy who was like the head of f1 and couple of other people who i was having these meetings with they just kept saying You don't make a decision. that They were obviously scared but that I was saying, I don't want to go back.
00:07:15
Speaker
And they kept saying, you know, just draw it out a bit longer, see if you change your mind. and And eventually I was like, no, I'm definitely not coming back. So we did all of the, I don't know, paperwork, finalising me leaving. had to do a letter of resignation.
00:07:28
Speaker
And then I was like, right, better get a job. So I was actually quite fortunate that it was mid-COVID. So I ended up doing this job where I was phoning people to see if they needed the food boxes.
00:07:41
Speaker
You know, and they're sending out food boxes to vulnerable people. oh um And it was just a filler job, but it was really good money because... of the way things went were in COVID, like they were just like throwing money at things, weren't they?
00:07:54
Speaker
and And I literally just walked from my house down to this, like, it's like in a call center building. ah And it was obviously dead easy. um Most of the time we weren't even doing anything. We just sat there while we were waiting for them to give us the number like the the numbers and the contact details the people that we were gonna ring.
00:08:14
Speaker
So there was loads of just downtime. haven't just sat chatting. I was getting paid probably comparable to what I was as an f one I did that for a couple of months and I was blissfully happy because it was, I'd left medicine. All my friends were still doing it and hating it.
00:08:29
Speaker
I, it was, it was sunny. I was walking to work each day. I was working like, I don't know, nine till four or something. um And it just felt like I just felt so happy. um And then this job, which when I moved into medical devices, which is the field that I'm in now, that job just came up and I'd...
00:08:53
Speaker
I've basically been scrolling on the job app Indeed constantly, um looking under like science, looking under healthcare, like they have categories and applying for anything and everything.
00:09:07
Speaker
um i applied for like some random research jobs at the uni. I applied for some sort of like apprenticeshipy thing a steel company. like I was just applying for everything and thinking like, well, what's the harm?
00:09:23
Speaker
writing loads of CVs and stuff. um And then this job came up one day and it said, um looking for a F1 or F2 level doctor to offer a clinical input to all aspects of our company.
00:09:36
Speaker
And I was like, well, that's got my name on it. So i was very fortunate that that came along at the right time. ah literally, um i would think I'd already got CV ready. So I just wrote a little cover letter, sent it off. And the MD of the company phoned me about half an hour later saying, when can you come in?
00:09:54
Speaker
And I went like the next day or something, had an interview and they rang me like straight away saying, when do you want to start? This is what we're going to pay you.
Career satisfaction and progression
00:10:03
Speaker
um and obviously that other job was just a filler so I didn't need to give notice or anything so I just started that and then I've been in that industry ever since wow I mean there's so much there really like I mean it was amazing that your mum was supportive that your supervisor was supportive yeah um I honestly think if I had had a different supervisor, I'd still be doing it now and hating it because was just this amazing woman and she...
00:10:36
Speaker
she just could see I was really unhappy and she, she was one of those people that can understand that medicine shouldn't be your whole life and it, it, it's not the be all and end all and she just looked at me and just said, like, I think she even said something like, ah as a joke, like, I release you, you know, um you know, I'm allowing, I'm allowing you to to go and be free and be happy and,
00:10:59
Speaker
She was incredible. That made a huge difference. I think if I'd had a really kind of old, old fashioned, for want of a better word, supervisor who just said, um you know, you, you need to stick it out.
00:11:12
Speaker
I would have just gone, okay, yeah, yeah, I'll just stick it out and And it's like fighting that sunk cost fallacy of I've put in five years or, you know, or longer.
00:11:23
Speaker
And you're like, oh, I don't want to waste all those years. And, oh, everyone's telling you, it'll get better in a few years. Like everyone struggles with F1. And it's hard to know how much of that struggle is just being an F1 and how much of that is like it's not right for you and you can choose to be happier.
00:11:44
Speaker
yeah And I think as well, everybody loves to say, ah it'll get better, it'll get better. But, you know, my my friends that are still doing it, like, yes, maybe it's a bit better because they're more confident. And obviously that aspect, your medical ability and improves. So you don't feel like you're out of your depth all the time. But they still have the same struggles in a lot of the other areas. Like they're still...
00:12:08
Speaker
might not have time to have lunch and they still have to work nights and they still um have short staffing issues. And a lot of the stresses I don't think go away as you move up. I think you just, you do improve your medical knowledge, obviously, but, and also the higher up you get, the more responsibility you have, which was the thing i felt you know it's all very well saying oh when you're med reg you'll earn loads of money and you'll be really skilled and proficient but you're also the most senior person in the hospital overnight and I can't even imagine that kind of pressure and responsibility
00:12:39
Speaker
um so I don't really agree with the argument that it'll get better because I don't necessarily think it does yeah um
00:12:51
Speaker
And like now I'm, you know, I'm doing GP training and yeah, I'm getting more confident and you know, I'm getting better. But at the same time, you're just expected to see more patients. And so you're always squeezed to the maximum yeah working potential that they can get out of you. Yeah, exactly. You're getting better, but then more is expected of you. Yeah. The only good thing about F1 really is that they don't expect a lot of you.
00:13:18
Speaker
So it's horrible, but actually at the end of the day, If something went wrong, then you're not really responsible for that patient at the end of the day. It's still the cons consultant's responsibility. That's kind of the only saving grace in F1, isn't it?
00:13:31
Speaker
Yeah. And also, it sounds like because you are F1 and you weren't on a bigger salary, it almost made the jump to the start of a lot of other industry, you know, pay wise, an easier jump.
00:13:46
Speaker
Like you started working minimum wage job and, you know, it's not really that different to the pay of an F1. No, i mean, that filler job was kind of fine for money and because it was like an hourly rate. I don't even know how it compared.
00:13:59
Speaker
but But then the first job I started on, because I had gone from psych, which was base salary, no out of hours, I actually had a pay rise when I left, which obviously wouldn't be the case for someone further up, probably.
00:14:13
Speaker
So although although everybody said it was, you know, leaving too soon and stuff, From that perspective, it was the best time to leave because I had a pay rise rather than ah but than a pay cut when I left.
00:14:27
Speaker
And it's easy to as you go up the scales in medicine, inflate your lifestyle. It costs accordingly. and then you're like, well, how can I go from such and such salary to and jump go back down? Like, I don't know how I would afford it.
00:14:42
Speaker
yeah So you can get trapped in that sense. and I think that's probably one of the hardest things. for yeah people people further on who ask me um how can I get into what you're doing and they 100% could but I don't know if they could jump onto the level I'm at four years or on because I've had like I've got significantly more experience over the last four years and I've had significant pay rises so it's not that straightforward jumping at this level i think um
00:15:16
Speaker
So kind of earlier the better. And like you said about the sunk cost fallacy, if you're staying because you've put you think you've put too much time in, if you stay for another year, you've put even more time in.
00:15:27
Speaker
um So actually, and know it's such a difficult thing to say, but if you think it's not for you, then, then um which is easier said than done to just know that, but then ah earlier the better, I suppose.
00:15:43
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's when you start to maybe hope you you catch a cold so that you don't have to go in. yeah You're like, I actually enjoy my sick leave more than I do my work.
00:15:55
Speaker
Oh, yeah, yeah. Please let me get DMV. Yeah, please, nor a virus. Yeah, 100%. So going into that job, what what was the job?
00:16:07
Speaker
So my my my job title then was Clinical Project Scientist. And it was... quite a vague job description i don't think they really knew what they wanted so it was a company ah that makes medical devices um extracorporeal life support so ecmo and um the bypass circuit when you're having cardiac surgery that was their medical equipment that they were manufacturing and they they wanted um
00:16:39
Speaker
well, as the job advert said, a medic, but a lower down one so they have to pay them as much, I guess, a medic to offer clinical input. So um a lot of that is the regulatory side of things. You need a lot of documentation to support putting a medical device or keeping a medical device on the market.
00:16:58
Speaker
um Clinical evaluation reports, which is now my main job. And... and um things like the instructions for use that come with a device, you know, that needs to have appropriate input from a clinical perspective to to see that it makes sense to the user.
00:17:19
Speaker
um Some devices need patient leaflets or, you know, you need a risk management file on a device. So you kind of need a clinical input to determine what are the actual clinical risks of this? What could go wrong?
00:17:34
Speaker
ah How do we prove that it's safe and it does what it says on the tin? um But then also they wanted um kind of a clinical input to sales and marketing as well. So if you're putting out a brochure, ah does this...
00:17:48
Speaker
you know are these um marketing claims substantiated um by clinical literature or do
Role of a Senior Medical Writer
00:17:55
Speaker
we need to do it ah clinical investigation can we do a post-market clinical study um and training as well so that i did a lot of training for sales they had four new sales reps at one point and i did quite a lot of and anatomy and physiology training for them. um So it was very, oh, and also the testing of the devices. They used to get and pig's blood from an abattoir to test the devices in there kind of lab environment because it was an an oxygenator. So you needed to test and how well the device was actually oxygenating the blood. So they used pig's blood and then you could run the samples through an ABG machine. Yeah.
00:18:38
Speaker
to do your testing to prove that it does work and stuff like that. And hemolysis that was happening in the device and centrifuging it down and stuff like that. So it was really varied. Um, And I don't think they really knew what they wanted. So I could mold the the job to what I wanted. In the end, it became mostly the regulatory side because that's where they really needed the support.
00:18:59
Speaker
And I pretty much became a medical writer, you would call it. So writing clinical evaluation reports, which is now my main role, which are...
00:19:12
Speaker
big chunky essays basically like where you summarize all of the safety and performance behind a medical device and prove or substantiate that you're meeting the requirements of the regulations um by you know doing literature searches or by getting your own clinical data or assessing how many complaints you've had and that kind of thing um so that's my main role now yeah but that was my first job which was a little bit more all over the place oh And how were those first few months, you know transitioning
00:19:47
Speaker
Amazing. ah Best thing I've ever done. Yeah. When I read your um like message about what what you're going to ask and you said, like, what were the main differences? And we were laughing last night so I was saying to my other half, like, lunch, just getting to have lunch, and which he thought was ridiculous, but he's not a medic.
00:20:06
Speaker
yeah Getting to have lunch every day, um finishing on time every day, ah not doing nights, not doing out of hours, having every weekend free. If someone says, you want to do something?
00:20:17
Speaker
Next month on a Saturday, yes. Like, you know, don't need to and all of my other friends. I have to say, oh, I have to look at my rota. not sure. I never have to work a night shift again. I hated nights.
00:20:28
Speaker
um And I think as well, and because I've gone from F1, where you very much are the bottom of the heap, aren't you? To being somebody that people really, um people really respected my opinion um so that was kind of a real switch from from going to being from being an f1 where you're not very confident and people don't necessarily value your opinion or or you don't feel that have much to offer maybe um to to being someone that
00:21:04
Speaker
I felt really useful. felt like I was really valued um and like I was really making a difference to stuff day to day.
00:21:15
Speaker
um and just that that kind of feeling of having enough time to do a task to the best of your ability and I'm a bit of a perfectionist and I think I always hated the fact like I said a bit before all those people that you're seeing you're not doing a thorough job and you know you're not and that that's really hard for most people I think that you are ah you're always doing the bare minimum whereas i mean obviously I still have deadlines and I still have I can't do everything to the
00:21:46
Speaker
perfectionist amount but you know I feel like I have enough time to really consider things and um do do a good job I suppose oh
00:22:00
Speaker
yeah I definitely struggle struggle with perfectionism in GP land because you just sort of gotta 10 minutes yeah what can you 10 minutes um And do you think that, so apart from being a doctor, did you have any other advantages or anything special on your CV or anything you did at med school to give you an advantage when getting that job?
Benefits of job flexibility
00:22:25
Speaker
No, didn't. I don't think so I didn't do anything extra at med school I just did the bare minimum to be honest to get through well no that sounds awful I mean I you know it it was enough to do the bare minimum at med school wasn't it just to pass you exams and stuff yeah um no I never did anything extra that would contribute at all um and I don't think I needed to have to them.
00:22:51
Speaker
The fact that had a medical degree was all, all it took. I think, I think now ah do think it's an advantage that I'm quite good at writing. Um, and I never would have considered that before, but actually I loved history and English at school.
00:23:07
Speaker
I've always been quite good at those essay subjects and I'm quite, um, it sounds really like cocky. I can write well and that's been a huge advantage and I'd never really thought about it until like I was talking to a friend who's still in medicine and isn't very happy. And I said, you know, would you think about doing something like me? And she said that she doesn't like writing and she's not very good at writing. So I suppose that's an advantage, but that's not, when you're writing sort of scientifically, that's not the be all and end all. You know, when you read, you read journal articles, sometimes you think this is written terribly.
00:23:44
Speaker
So i don't think that's the be all and end all. That's the only advantage I could think of really is that I, I enjoy writing and I enjoy writing. um you have to do quite a lot of sort of justification. So if your notified body, the person that kind of grants the CE mark to be allowed to sell the device, the notified body will review your documentation. And if they feel it's not sufficient, you then have to respond to them. And um I find that quite satisfying coming up with a good argument. It's a bit like being a lawyer and you're kind of justifying why you feel that you have met the requirement.
00:24:22
Speaker
Um, So and I quite enjoy that as well. And sort of, so you started off um in this new industry. How did the pay compare when you started out and how has it progressed over the last five years that you've been working in this industry?
00:24:40
Speaker
I think, like I said at the beginning, I was very lucky that I had a ah slight pay rise because I'd gone from a base salary F1 psych job. um So I had a little bit of an increase at that point.
00:24:51
Speaker
And then I've been quite fortunate to have quite significant jumps up in salary, both within companies and when I've moved jobs. So that I've, as far as I know, I've stayed pretty comparable with friends at the same level. Obviously, it's quite hard to compare because most of my friends have done f three s or they've gone to New Zealand or they've gone to Australia. I'm sure that what the New Zealand Australia salaries are much higher.
00:25:16
Speaker
But as in terms of UK standard medicine, um probably now at this stage, comparable to friends who are in kind of the early stages of specialty training um probably a bit less than some of the specialties that have loads of out of hours work but then uh they're probably doing twice as many hours as me so um and you have your sanity yeah and there's definitely a lot of scope to move up quite significantly so I can't see that I'll ever be earning significantly less than medic friends if I put it that way unless they become orthopaedic surgeons doing a ton of private work and working full time I'm probably never gonna earn that kind of money yeah but unless I like have shares in a company or
00:26:04
Speaker
become an owner of a company or something you know there's there is obviously scope in any industry to earn that much money i don't particularly have those ambitions but I think I will you know I earn a decent salary I'm comfortable so yeah comparable I would say and I presume you've been able to stay where you want in the country rather than moving around to in search of jobs?
00:26:31
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. I mean, that first job I got was a 40 minute commute. So not ideal, but fairly standard. um And then they actually paid for me to do a master's so they gave me two days a week to do the master's so those two days I ended up working from home which was great so then I was only commuting 40 minutes three days a week and I was still earning the same salary to work three days a week and get a master's paid for so that was incredibly fortunate um and it was really interesting it was in medical toxicology so that was really interesting and it was another string to my belt in terms of um medical devices and and in the industry and then the next job that I got so I was I was at that first job for three years and then I got a new job um
00:27:20
Speaker
lots of different reasons really um but that was a slight salary increase as well and that was an orthopedic company and that was in Sheffield which is where I live that that was about 20 minute commute so that was really nice and that was hybrid so um three days in the office 20 minute commute and then two days at home um but there's there's you know and in cities that there's quite a few medical device companies that like you've I think you probably wouldn't, depending where live, you probably wouldn't struggle to find somewhere in this kind of industry. And then worked there for a year and then I've recently started a new job.
00:28:03
Speaker
um When did I start? October I think um and it's totally remote which is rogue uh I was really unsure about it the job I interviewed for it and the job sounded really good and the only thing on my negatives list was remote working because I like the office environment like having a chat while you're making a cup of tea and I like bouncing ideas off and stuff So I was really, really unsure.
00:28:32
Speaker
the The nearest office is in Ripon, which is North Yorkshire, so it's about an hour and a half. So I can go if I want to. But I've only been twice since I started, I think. um um And actually, I'm loving it.
00:28:45
Speaker
And I really didn't expect to be saying that. But um now totally remote. So now that I know that, if I ever did want to move, i mean, I'm really happy in this new job. But now I think if I ever did want to move, I'm...
00:28:59
Speaker
I am now kind of the world's my oyster a lot of a lot of the roles doing what I'm doing are remote so I could work for a company in Europe or I could work for a US s company so it's it's now location isn't an issue at all and what at the moment what does a day in the life look like Um, so my main role, like I said before, is writing clinical evaluation reports.
00:29:24
Speaker
So I'll have, uh, at the moment our schedule is we do one of those over three months. So you kind of like working on something for a really long period of time. Um, um,
00:29:36
Speaker
So like the device I was doing from October to Christmas was a, ah a nasal lacrimal intubation kit. So ah a tear duct stent basically. Um, so,
00:29:50
Speaker
the good thing about the new company is it's really varied um so i was doing a lot of kind of that area of anatomy before christmas and then i've just started a new well i'll be starting a new one which is um a basically a fat filter for a cosmetic mostly cosmetic procedures where they take the fat from one area of the body it goes into this canister it gets kind of filtered out and then it re-injected in um things like ah breast reconstruction um so really varied so yeah um typical day i'd be working on that so that might involve doing literature searches on pubmed and mbase and looking at cochrane reviews and it might be analyzing um internal day ah internal company data like summarizing the sales and complaint any complaints we've had um
00:30:44
Speaker
At my old company in orthopedics, there was a bit more what we call post-market clinical follow-up. So and we had a lot of ongoing studies, which is more common in orthopedics.
00:30:55
Speaker
So you might be analysing clinical study data, basically, um and a bit more stats, maybe. and And yeah, writing those reports is basically my main job.
00:31:09
Speaker
But my role now is a little bit more senior. So I've gone from, I was a clinical project scientist first, then my last job was clinical research. No, other the way around, actually. The first job was clinical scientist, then clinical project scientist at the orthopaedic company.
00:31:25
Speaker
And then now my role is senior medical writer. So I'm sort of, um there's the clinical manager and then there's me and then there's some more junior team members. So I'm doing a lot more kind of mentoring which I really enjoy um so I have a lot of calls um yesterday and the day before I was doing training for the team so i was um had like couple of hours where I kind of had three of my junior colleagues on a team's call I was um doing a bit of an intro into how you do your literature searches and your cr and things like that um and then you know if my managers um
00:32:06
Speaker
working on something and she wants a bit of input, and then we'll have discussions about stuff. So I have quite a lot of calls. um I'm going down rabbit holes, aren't I? You asked about a typical day. No, that's a typical i So my office is where now, up in my attic. So I'll literally just, so I start at eight o'clock, ah answer some emails, answer some Teams messages,
00:32:31
Speaker
do a bit of the CER, then maybe have a meeting with the whole team to discuss what everybody's working on. um We've recently been and updating the templates that we write the the documents on. so we might have a two hour meeting where we get the template up and we all discuss how we should change it Then,
00:32:50
Speaker
I might do a bit more on my report and then I might have a coffee call with one of my colleagues and just like have a catch up. And then, um, might have another project ongoing at the same time, something like, um,
00:33:08
Speaker
I was working with my manager on defining the human body contact, um kind of the text of the human body contact areas for each of our products, because there's hundreds.
00:33:19
Speaker
So we might have a meeting to go through some of those and and bash out some ideas about is this body contacting or non-body contacting and that kind of thing. And then So it's quite varied, but I'm sat at the same place all day, which I know a lot of people would would hate, but I really like that continuity and I know what I'm going to be doing most days pretty much, which I like, which I found stressful in medicine.
00:33:45
Speaker
The kind of the not knowing what you're going to get each day.
Advice for transitioning to medical devices industry
00:33:49
Speaker
a lot of reading, a lot of writing. At uni, I feel like I avoided all sort of literature reviews and all that.
00:33:57
Speaker
It felt like extra stuff that you could do. like But it sounds like you hadn't done much of that either uni. So did you just learn it all as you went along? Yeah, pretty much. and We didn't have many essays. I think most med schools are the same. You don't really do much in the way of like essay writing and stuff. So I had used PubMed, but I, you know, I didn't really, I learned a lot of it on the job, um which was hard at times because Ideally, you'd go into a company where they had someone doing it and you would kind of get training.
00:34:29
Speaker
And I didn't really have that because that first company I went into, they didn't have anyone really doing that clinical role. So I had to sort of self-teach how to write these clinical of evaluation reports and but I've now had like four years of doing it. So um I've just kind of learned. And like I said, you get feedback from your notified body about whether you're kind of compliant and then and then you justify your methodology back to them. And then a lot of what I've learned is to and froing from them. So i can say, well, I don't do it this way because and BSI, the notified body told me that wasn't right. So it's a bit of trial and error at times.
00:35:10
Speaker
Yeah. But no, I hadn't really got experience in that. It's self-taught in a lot ways. And so for someone listening who set likes the sound of working from home, you know, working on a project, you what and who wanted to go into this field is there anything you'd recommend they do or how would you recommend they go about sort of the job hunt um
00:35:42
Speaker
um I don't think there is anything really that you can do other than, suppose, doing a bit of reading on the regulations. So the main thing we comply with is the medical device regulation, which is a European, ah fairly new European regulation, which says everything that you have to have for a medical device on the market.
00:36:05
Speaker
um And a lot of my job is because that came in. So there used to be a much less stringent thing called the medical device directive, which was more like a guideline in Europe. But then there was a lot of scandals like the breast implant scandal where the silicon was leaching out because they'd used industrial grade silicon.
00:36:21
Speaker
And then there was there was um an issue where they found that ah metal on metal hip resurfacing was causing metallosis.
00:36:31
Speaker
So there's kind of a couple of things that happened which made... the industry changed quite dramatically. And that's really opened up this huge scope for more clinical people in companies.
00:36:46
Speaker
So I think um probably 10 years ago, you a medical device company could get by perfectly well without having anybody with any clinical knowledge or even doing my job, probably a ah regulatory person could just write the document and say, these are the risks and stuff. Whereas now in in the new regulation, there are specific requirements about, well, it's more stringent on who has to write these documents. You have to have medical knowledge. And that's really expanded the scope for people like me. And it came a really good time for me.
00:37:22
Speaker
um, because it's made these jobs exist i mean for example the team i work on now there's been four new um members of the team this year so the team's like doubled in size um so i would say other than kind of having an understanding of the fact that there is a medical device regulation so that if you went to an interview you could you know you could say that you know what it is um but um
00:37:53
Speaker
I think like we touched on earlier the the only difficulty for people would be that they may need to go like to start from the bottom because you can't really get around the fact that you do just have to learn about how to write these types of documents and that's quite a long process of learning they're quite complex documents and getting to understand the regulation, getting to understand the requirements just takes a while.
00:38:21
Speaker
So ah don't see, i don't think somebody could jump straight into the role I'm in, basically. But there is probably scope elsewhere in the industry.
00:38:32
Speaker
For example, in sales, if that's something personally, it's not something I've everve been interested in. And I in in hindsight quite enjoy not having that much personal interaction um don't get me wrong I like being sociable but I used to get tired of the whole hello I'm Grace I'm the doctor how are you like all of that kind of putting on that front all the time um but if people love that side of it medical sales from what I understand is very lucrative there's a huge commission basis on it
00:39:04
Speaker
that might be something that you could sideline into and not have to kind of start from scratch. I mean, I assume you would still have to start from the bottom, wouldn't you? um But I honestly can't think of anything that would that would help to say that you've done it because it's not like a other than saying, you know how to do literature searches, which most people have an understanding from uni. Okay.
00:39:32
Speaker
um and talking about your knowledge of you know your medical background that's kind of all you need and then learning to write these documents is very much on the job that's that's really helpful um and so the entry-level job title is clinical scientist in medical device the medical device field that yeah medical device industry um is is what i work in um job titles, clinical scientist, clinical project scientist, medical writer, CER writer, clinical writer, um,
00:40:11
Speaker
and that's kind of within the regulatory area of the business. So, and so in a medical device company, you have like your, I don't engineering department, your sales department, your kind of quality and regulatory department is sort of where we sit, but we're a branch of that, I would say.
00:40:31
Speaker
um, So that's that's what I'm in. I ah don't know much about the pharmaceutical industry, but I assume that there is comparable kind of roles.
00:40:43
Speaker
and But... I think in pharma, you'd have more science-y roles where you probably need to do have had have done biochem and things like that to actually do a lot. Because we don't really have a lot of pharmacology in medical, not as much as pharmacy and biochem, I don't think.
00:41:02
Speaker
But there must be... I know that pharma has... ah version of these documents I write so a clinical evaluation some sort of clinical evaluation report so I imagine there is scope in that industry too but I don't have any knowledge of it um another aspect would be working for the regulators more so rather than working for the manufacturer um People have said to me before about working for the the notified body, which I mentioned, who are actually deciding whether or not you can sell it.
00:41:37
Speaker
ah They're like the regulator or the MHRA, which is kind of above them. So the MHRA control the notified body and then the notified bodies decide honest manufacture a manufacturer basis weather whether you can get your certification. So there's definitely roles at the MHRA, but they'd probably be...
00:41:55
Speaker
you probably go from something like I was doing, move up to working for a notified body and then kind of work for the MHRA. and But I don't know if there's scope there for people who've got more senior in medicine, maybe, maybe that they could jump into something like that easier. um And then the other thing is um kind of contractors. So a lot of manufacturers outsource these kind of documents and this sort of work. So,
00:42:22
Speaker
ah there are consultancy sort of firms who pay people like me to write these reports so you're kind of a you're an out you're an outsourced function um and they potentially pay better because they're um they're consultant so um there is There is different types of roles and a lot of it, i was very lucky that that job came along at the right time, I think. um so
00:42:57
Speaker
So yeah, it's just getting your foot in the door probably a lot of the time. That's really helpful. So for someone who is currently working as a doctor, dreading going to work every day, really feels bit helpless, what would you say to them?
00:43:19
Speaker
I would just say that life's too short to hate your job, to be honest. That's just what I kept saying to people. um Life really is too short to dread going to work. i used to feel sick in the morning.
00:43:31
Speaker
Sometimes i didn't have any breakfast because I felt sick. But you know, like didn't always sleep very well because I was just dreading work or worrying about work. um I know people just say, ah well, you know, it being a doctor's hard. And if you're really passionate about it, then maybe it's worth all of that. But i wasn't.
00:43:54
Speaker
So think I'd kind of gone through med school, ruling out most specialties, kind of ended up on GP and then and then thought, actually, everything I like about GP you can't do in 10 minutes.
00:44:08
Speaker
And that kind of made me feel like, what am I actually waiting for? So I had friends who were hating it too, but they had this goal at the end. I really want to be, I don't know, an orthopedic surgeon, or I really want to be, um, a pediatrician.
00:44:26
Speaker
So it's worth all this horribleness to get to that. But, um,
00:44:34
Speaker
Or go to Australia and New Zealand. If you love the job, but you hate the NHS, then I guess try Australia and New Zealand. But is that a is that a long-term solution?
00:44:48
Speaker
um if you... if you're aiming for a particular specialty, which you think is for you, radiology or something maybe, then stick it out and get to that if you can.
00:44:59
Speaker
But if you aren't really sure why you, I i honestly can't even, couldn't even remember what I'd said in that you know interview question why do you want to be a doctor I'd made up something like I wasn't passionate about it I wasn't one of those people who says I've wanted to be a doctor since I was five years old not at all I just picked it when I was 16 I didn't know what the workplace looked like so um I just don't think that it's worth there's other jobs out there you know you could do something like I do you could go and be a teacher you could go and do something completely different you're going to be doing this we're all going to be working till we're like 70 so what is the point in dreading going to work and people were saying to me um just get through f1 but like another six months of dreading going to work and feeling sick about it that is a long time it's not that simple think
00:46:00
Speaker
people, potentially people who aren't doing it, potentially parents or friends or whatever, oh just stick out for a year. A year's a long time. It's a dread going to work. So i I think people feel as well, just another thing to say is that people think they're only qualified to do one thing And I felt like that.
00:46:19
Speaker
I thought, well, I want to leave, but um it's so vocational that that the course only prepares you for one job. But that is not true. There's so how many things like my job or and that lovely supervisor that I said about, she said she had a friend who was now a biology teacher and loved her job.
00:46:39
Speaker
and There's so many things. And even if you do something totally unrelated to medicine, To be honest, having, i was a doctor, I have a medical degree on your CV is going to always go far because everybody knows it's time management, communication, intelligence, um you know, ability to work under under pressure, like all of those things.
00:47:02
Speaker
um if you can If you can get through even like a short period of working as a doctor, I think anything else you come across, it's just never
Overcoming judgment and finding validation
00:47:13
Speaker
gonna be as hard. so you're So you're such a good asset to any role or any business because you've dealt with you know being the only person ah looking after like 100 people at night and someone's having a heart attack and someone's having a seizure.
00:47:30
Speaker
And if you can do that, you can pretty much smash any other role, I think.
00:47:38
Speaker
you're like that deserves and ah an applause but yeah i really i really hate people thinking that they're only qualified to do one thing because even if you do something totally unrelated to science and medicine you have so many skills from both the medic just the medical degree and from the job that would be an asset anywhere um Exactly.
00:48:04
Speaker
i think if there's one thing I, you know, if I was to leave to take away from medicine would be that I can now read fit people quite well. um And you've just met loads of people now because you meet 20 people a day.
00:48:18
Speaker
yeah i guess it sounds bad to be able to judge people, but... you know reading people is definitely a skill um but yeah thank you so much for your insight it's been really interesting hearing about it and um yeah making me more tempted to live that work from home lifestyle yeah thank you very much you're more than welcome um I yeah I like I like helping anyone that is feeling that way because it wasn't very nice not having anyone seeing anyone that has made that move um and thinking I was the first person to ever leave medicine so so um yeah very happy to help yeah
00:49:06
Speaker
it's you got out I was gonna ask you any regrets but i was like that's a stupid question because obviously no best thing I've ever done and I always say that's people and I think less so now because I'm a bit more established in my role and stuff but at the beginning ah hated telling people you know if I went to see a friend um like, and they, there were some other people there from med school that I wasn't really friends with, like, and and they were like, what, so what are you doing now? And I've actually left. And people were like, oh, and it was probably my own insecurity, but I always felt like people were judging and kind of saying, oh, you couldn't hack it. Like, it always felt a bit, a bit pitying. Yeah. Whereas i think hopefully now that i you know, i I really like my job and I'm pretty,
00:50:00
Speaker
living my best life then I don't think anybody would but that was one of the really hard things like people's judgment about it yeah I remember like when I met you in F1 I was or I think it was maybe yeah I was like so fascinated was like oh my god like how did you do this help me