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Is working in Digital Health Tech a better life for doctors?
14 Plays3 months ago
I caught up with Naomi who left life working as a doctor in the Netherlands to work in Digital Health Tech in the UK. She tells me all about how its going, the differences in day to day life and gives some advice for those who are feeling a little lost right now!
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Transcript
Naomi's Transition from Medicine to Digital Health
00:00:00
Speaker
So there are all these digital health initiatives popping up I think from the moment that I decided that I was going to try and find a role and the moment that I started was about six weeks. Hello and welcome to today's episode of Leaving Med. Today's guest is Naomi who has made the move from working as a doctor to working in digital health tech and she's going to be telling us a little bit about how it's going and why she made the transition.
Comparing Medical Training in the UK and Netherlands
00:00:30
Speaker
So just for a little bit of background, what stage were you at kind of when you left um working as a doctor? Yeah, so a bit of a background is probably useful because my experience in the NHS is very, very minimal. um i My dad is from the UK, my mum's from the Netherlands, so I studied medicine in the Netherlands. um I then, after school, decided after university, decided to move to London.
00:01:00
Speaker
um So if there's kind of an equivalent role to what medicine is in the UK, I guess it would be an F4 or an SHO. I'm not sure which title is used nowadays, but that would be the equivalent of where I decided to to switch. Okay, so did you do like foundation training in the UK then?
00:01:23
Speaker
No, so the foundation years are included in the medical training in the Netherlands, so it's a six-year program, three years of a bachelor's, three years of a master's, and the last two years of the master's are what is the equivalent of the foundation years in the UK.
00:01:40
Speaker
Okay, so you've been working for a few years as a doctor. um So how did it like compare the UK festival, the UK to like the Netherlands working as a doctor? Yeah, so in terms of working as a clinical doctor, I didn't do that in the UK. My partner does. So I have a lot of I always say I have some experience because of all of her stories.
Early Doubts and Creative Pursuits in Medicine
00:02:05
Speaker
um But the difference I think in terms of what it looks like day to day isn't that different. I think being an SHO and in the Netherlands you have an equivalent name for that role is very similar. I do think the way that you then go on to specialist training is is a bit different. So it seems to be that in the UK you just do an exam and some specialties will have an interview, but in the Netherlands almost everything is an interview.
00:02:34
Speaker
there's hardly any exams attached to these things. Okay, cool. um So basically you worked for a couple of years and then what made you start to think about maybe transitioning to do something else?
00:02:49
Speaker
Yeah I think um my idea around if I wanted to continue on as a doctor, those questions around that has been around I think maybe even from second year of of medical school. So I think I might be a little bit different compared to other people who make the transition that I was from the beginning I was kind of questioning if medicine was the complete right fit for me. um I really enjoyed thinking about the human body and the the contact with patients and all the skills necessary to do it, but I think I really struggled with um the lack of creative work.
00:03:29
Speaker
I really enjoyed doing things on the side to to make some money. Things like i was I was a video maker so I would help companies make videos and that's how I would have a side income. um I really enjoyed DJing at some point so I was always doing these creative things on the
Exploring and Entering Digital Health Tech
00:03:47
Speaker
side.
00:03:47
Speaker
uh and that became harder and harder as I went through medical school and later when I worked as a doctor and I really missed that so I think I was always thinking is this for me or do I do something else and if so what is that and when I went through my clinical years in the master's of face or the foundation years I realized that there's a lot of kind of problems in healthcare care that a lot of people run into, but it's really tough to sit down and take some time to think those problems through and to do something about them. So an example from when I was on the neonatology ward is that i there was this feeding program for the the babies who were on the ward.
00:04:30
Speaker
and every day about five people had to come and sit together around the table and think about this feeding schedule and they would do everything by hand, they would calculate everything by hand, they would discuss things by hand and I was thinking this is probably like some kind of algorithm, it's not anything special so I i requested some time kind of off the ward to think about this and to give them a solution And they basically said, no, that's that's not what you're here to
Role and Scope in Digital Health Tech
00:04:57
Speaker
do. So you're just going to have to sit next to the doctor the rest of the day and watch him or her do what they're doing. um And I think things like that really made me think outside of the box and kind of what else is out there that allows me to think about problems in health care a bit more instead of being in the day-to-day work.
00:05:21
Speaker
Yeah, the the lack of efficiencies in the air and the NHS um especially really boil my blood and you try and make you know positive changes but you're on the job for such a short amount of time and nothing ever really changes. It's frustrating. So I guess you know in some ways you have more of an impact outside of working as a doctor, isn't it? um than on the front lines. um yeah So kind of you're working you're working in health tech, I understand. yeah I don't really know what that means or what that is, if you could just explain a little bit about what it what it means.
00:06:02
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, of course. I think, I mean, i've I've only just started, I think this is my going into my fourth month of working in in digital health tech. From what I understand, it is just a broad term for many different things. So it kind of encompasses the knowledge, but also technology that is used to help some something in healthcare care to either service people or to I don't know, medical devices is also part of digital health tech. So it's a really, really broad term. if
00:06:35
Speaker
anything that you can think of that requires technology to drive things in healthcare. care In my case, what that means is that I work for a company that has a software as a service, so to speak. So they offer companies and businesses tech to use for their healthcare purposes. So yeah, health care digital health tech doesn't really have like one definition, I think is everything that falls under the umbrella term of technology in healthcare. Okay, and and what were the first sort of steps that you took
00:07:15
Speaker
to start that transition then? Did you know people in the field or what were you what we doing to try and change make the change? Yeah, yeah I think it my idea to try and really pursue something in digital health was quite
Leveraging Skills for Career Change
00:07:33
Speaker
recent. I think from the moment that I decided that I was going to try and find a role and the moment that I started was about six weeks. So I was very lucky in that respect as well.
00:07:43
Speaker
I think when I was still working in the Netherlands as a doctor I was already planning to move to the UK and I was also planning to take some time out of medicine to think about how I can build skills outside of my medical skills so I wanted to learn some businessy skills and Start a small business to kind of learn things outside of medicine and then apply that to what I then thought was going to be a startup I wanted to start my own startup to solve an issue in healthcare um But then I moved to the UK continued my small business that went well, but I I really wanted to kind of deepen the knowledge that I was learning. I didn't want to just figure stuff out myself. I wanted to learn from people who are doing stuff in health care in a startup so I could learn how to emulate that.
00:08:38
Speaker
And that's when I figured out that health care, digital health tech is quite big in the UK compared to the Netherlands because the NHS is showing some signs of ah yeah the fact that it's difficult to service everyone who needs health care. So there are all these digital health initiatives popping up and trying to fill certain voids.
00:09:00
Speaker
um And how I then got started is that I first looked on LinkedIn. I was just really kind of trying to get a lay of the land of different companies, different people, ex-doctors perhaps who are now working in a company and seeing what they were posting, seeing what their business was doing, messaging some people. I then also found a few people on Reddit who spoke about having left the NHS for digital health tech.
00:09:29
Speaker
um And I had someone kind of in my network, not really, someone who I'd known four years prior to me then reaching out to them, who had sold an app. So they created an app, pregnancy app, and sold it to a a bigger company.
00:09:45
Speaker
So I was kind of just trying to talk to people and figure out if this was something that I actually wanted to do because that I think was my first question. Is this actually something I want to do or am I just kind of thinking the grass is greener on the other side?
00:10:04
Speaker
Yeah, so sort of a lot of sliding into people's DMs and messaging people and trying to find out what it entails. um Did you have any sort of skills already? like Did you already know how to code? or like what because Because going from no experience to a job in six weeks sounds quite rapid, especially with the current job market. So surely you had some some but sort of advantage? I don't know.
00:10:36
Speaker
Yeah, I think, ah first of all, I don't think you need to code. I did try ah learning to code and realize it wasn't really for me, so it's definitely not if other people are considering moving into digital health tech, it's really not necessary.
Unconventional Ventures and Skills Gained
00:10:53
Speaker
I think if you are a clinician, that is your strength and that is your skill set.
00:10:58
Speaker
um I think what's way more important and I think this goes for the wider kind of world outside of medicine or law where you know what your job is going to be and you know that everyone needs to have the same specialized skill set. I think outside of that it's way more normal to just see are you a fit for the company as a person.
00:11:19
Speaker
What things interest you? How do you enjoy thinking about problems? Do you like taking risks or are you good with people? I think those things are way more important if I now think back to the people I spoke to before I got this job.
00:11:35
Speaker
they're way more interested in, oh you're a doctor that's really good because then you know you have a certain expertise and it does signal that you can work under stress that you can prioritize well stuff like that but outside of that it's really about who you are and yeah what soft skills perhaps as well ah You have. in In my case, I did start a small business in between quitting medicine for a bit and then starting my health tech job. I do feel like in that period, I got a really wide range of skills that helped me in the job seeking process. But i do think I don't think it is necessary strictly necessary if you're looking to get into that field. Okay. What what type of business did did you start?
00:12:24
Speaker
So I knew a few people who were in e-commerce, so using social media to sell products or services. And I was looking for something really low risk, so I didn't want to put a lot of money up front and I didn't want to do something that was starting anything from scratch. So in the end, it's a bit unconventional, but in the end, I started a sex toy company.
00:12:48
Speaker
So I would build a social media presence for that and I had my own products that I you know got my own packaging for and I was shipping those out and just learning about that whole process of like setting up a business case, selling customer service, how do you signal what your brand is, like stuff like that.
Corporate Role vs Medical Career
00:13:12
Speaker
That's cool. That's really cool. um Okay, so what does the day to day look like now in your role? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's very, I would say corporate. That's probably a good word to explain it. It's nine to five. I work full time, five days a week. ah Because it is a career change for me, I do do a bit more than nine to five hours. But compared to work as a doctor, it's nowhere near the amount of overtime that you would do as a doctor.
00:13:49
Speaker
um There are some things outside of work like networking events or like work-related events that I go to as well. um But in terms of the actual day-to-day work, I'm and ah an account manager, so my company works with different brands, different kinds.
00:14:10
Speaker
and I help service those clients correctly. So if a client uses the software that my company has created, then I will make sure to be in contact with these clients, make sure that they can market the software well, that they know that they're compliant medically speaking. So my days are kind of spent servicing these different clients.
00:14:35
Speaker
And it can be anything from creating marketing campaigns to reporting to um strategic business business strategy, helping them look towards the future and see what they can do to maximize the the product that we offer. So a lot of Zoom calls with clients then.
00:15:00
Speaker
Yeah, I think right now I spend two days with different clients as well. So I spent two days not working from home, three days working from home. um So in terms of Zoom calls, luckily, in my case, it's not that bad. I think I really prefer working face to face with clients as well. um But yeah, it is very like, um yeah, very corporate. So I sit behind my computer a lot, talk to people a lot. So yeah.
00:15:30
Speaker
Nice. And how does it sort of compare, if you don't mind me asking, kind of pay-wise compared to working as a doctor? Yeah, so ah currently I started on the grade that would be equivalent to the average of a CCT salary.
00:15:51
Speaker
So I am working at a startup that is looking to go into their second round of fundraising. So I wouldn't say that my situation is very typical again, because I also chose this role to really learn instead of maximizing for for income. um So depending on where you which company you join, but also where you join on their journey, the pay can be very different. So right now it's the equivalent of the average of a CCT income, but in terms of progression you can go basically anywhere, I think. Again, this is very different from medicine where you know I'm stepping in here in year one of CCT and I'm going to end up there.
00:16:42
Speaker
In the corporate world, it's way more variable. It depends on where you start, where you want to go as well. Because for example, I'm an account manager, but you could also be a designer, you could be a product manager, you could be a clinical advisor. So between those roles, there's a huge variation in in pay. And some people, i've I've read stories of doctors who then end up in a senior position.
00:17:09
Speaker
in a company and that can be very lucrative so it really depends on where you want to go. I imagine it's very variable depending on the company and what stage they're at. Is it still a goal of yours to start your own startup once you've kind of gained experience?
Considering Entrepreneurship in Digital Health
00:17:29
Speaker
yeah i'm i'm still trying to debate that i think i'm really in the thick of like changing careers and that is so demanding because it's a different skill set that at the moment that is all i'm thinking about but yeah i think that that's really the aim for me to see kind of behind uh yeah behind the scenes of what a startup is and learning from everyone who's been doing it for a longer amount of time so i would say if i start a startup in the next five years i'd be very surprised but yeah yeah ultimately kind of shaping the future of healthcare is the idea that i i went into this with so yeah
00:18:08
Speaker
Yeah, I imagine there's a lot to learn and you're four months into this role, so I imagine the learning curve is quite steep. um So, do you miss medicine? Do you miss working as a doctor?
00:18:24
Speaker
Yeah, that's a good question. I think the answer is yes and no. So my partner is trying to get into specialty training, into psychiatry, and sometimes I look at her and I really do not envy her position because, you know, it's a huge amount of sacrifice. it's you the autonomy is quite limited so there's a lot that is kind of decided for you. We might have to just move to the different different part of England in a few months because she could be placed in in a certain place so from those kind of work life balance side no I don't miss medicine at all but I do think
00:19:04
Speaker
the things that I really enjoyed about medicine, so talking to patients, thinking really in an analytical way about healthcare problems ah just for the individual that's sitting across from you. I do miss that.
00:19:19
Speaker
I do feel though that the the way I think about problems in my current role is is quite similar. It's just not clinical medicine. But yeah, the talking to patients I think is the and the impact that you can sometimes have by having a conversation with someone.
Advice for Doctors on Career Changes
00:19:36
Speaker
That I really do miss. Yeah. Yeah.
00:19:40
Speaker
So for someone who is working as a doctor, say in the NHS, say they can't get into the specialty that they like, they're really struggling, what would you say to them about thinking about exploring other career paths? Any advice? Yeah, I think i guess I think everyone's path is different, but i I could share a few things that really were helpful for me. um The most recent piece of advice I got when I tried to transition into digital health tech, and I think this goes for any change,
00:20:17
Speaker
is that someone told me like you you shouldn't run from something, you should run towards something. So I think before I made this change I was really mentally busy with like this idea of like I don't want to do this anymore and all the ways in which I didn't want to do work as a doctor instead of what do I want um because that is what is going to get you into motion to go to the next thing. if If it is that, maybe you'll think like, I would like to do a clinical advisory role in digital health tech, for example, sounds interesting. And then you start talking to people who do that. And then the day-to-day work seems a bit not really your thing. Then at least you know that that is not for you. But if you kind of stay stuck into this idea of like the NHS,
00:21:10
Speaker
isn't what I thought it was going to be, my work-life balance isn't what I want, then you won't think of all the other ah possibilities. And so my second piece of advice would be to talk to a lot of people who are doing something else or who are in a position where you would like to be, because then you can really suss out what it is that they're doing day to day and if that fits you. And a lot of people are very happy to talk about themselves in that respect. So don't be afraid to reach out to people. I've reached out on a few people on LinkedIn.
00:21:45
Speaker
doctors who made the switch and I've spoken to four within one week because they were really happy to jump on the zoom call with me because I said look I'm considering this would you mind like talking me through how you did it and what it's like for you everyone was really happy to do that That's really good advice. I mean, it's just it just seems like so different to like working as doctor, like the whole like corporate thing. It seems like such a ah mystery um when you compare it to just like treating patients and speaking to families and things like that. I'm here to be like all professional and talk to clients and things. It is. Yeah. In a way it is. But it also isn't. I remember, you know, when you
00:22:33
Speaker
maybe it's it's this in the foundation years when you're in the UK that you go from one specialty to the next and you really, you know, if you've never been on a gynecology ward and they just sit you down and they're like, go see these patients. I i felt the same. I was like, oh my gosh, I just came from surgery. Like this is
Reflections on Career Paths and Skill Sets
00:22:53
Speaker
different. Well, I guess surgery is part of gynecology, but you know, the the problems that you think about are different.
00:23:00
Speaker
between specialties as well um so it's not that different um and in terms of like being a professional for example I really felt that as a doctor you know you had to exude this confidence and this kind of you know, ah just like nothing ever at um nothing ever really touches you. You kind of like enough and you know and now when I'm talking to clients I can be a bit more silly and no one really cares. So yeah in some ways it's very different but also the skills and the things you do day to day are quite similar. Amazing. Is it is it something you would consider a career change?
00:23:46
Speaker
I mean I've been thinking about a career change since like fourth year of medical school. I still get emails from like plumbing schools and graphic design courses and various things that I've been quiet about over the years and I think I felt so like helpless during like foundation years because I was like or what am I going to do? And I didn't have quite have the mental bandwidth to like properly research other careers. um And now I've kind of come up with my plan, which is you know to GP, CCT, and then moved to move to Canada. Nice.
00:24:33
Speaker
I think, and once youre once you've figured out your path, you can sort of stick with it and be like, okay, I'm just gonna get my head down and push through. um But yeah, I think I felt quite helpless for a few years. and i think But I think also deleting Instagram has helped me feel a little bit better about my life. Nice. Yeah, I think we can all do without social media in order to feel better about ourselves.
00:25:02
Speaker
but Yeah, thank you so much for taking the time to to come on and be questioned. It's been really interesting. Obviously, you've got a lot of hustle to start a few things at uni and then start your own business and and go out and venture into digital health tech. I think i think as as doctors, a lot of us do have that hustle because we got into med school, we've survived the first couple years as a doctor, so I think we all do have that in us, but it we often are using all of our energy in the day-to-day. I feel that once I've reduced my hours to about 80%, now it means that I can
00:25:50
Speaker
you know, have energy to do other projects like starting this podcast and things like that. Right, right. Yeah and it is, I think you're really right in what you so you say that the skills that you grow as a doctor are very useful in a wider context. So I do and I think a lot of people sense this when you get further into training or maybe you're ah an SHO for a few years.
00:26:17
Speaker
You really get used to this idea that there's this set trajectory for you And if you want you just have to get like on the conveyor belt kind of it's not that easy But it when you're on it, you know where you're going um But there are a lot of I think causes out there that could really benefit from the skills that we have as a doctor so Yeah, if you're if there's anything in you that is kind of questioning like what would that be like? I would just say, you know Keep an open mind and stay curious and read into things because yeah, we have the skill set. It's just a matter of of Applying it if you want. Yeah Amazing. That's a great place to end. Thank you so much. No worries. Thank you