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The Assassination of Alan Berg
543 Plays4 months ago
Josh and M discuss the assassination of left-wing "shock jock" Alan Berg, and the White Supremacists who were not convicted of his murder...
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Transcript
The Murder of Alan Berg
00:00:00
Speaker
In 1984, the world lost the left's Alex Jones. Well, we say the world, but we mean America. And by America, we really just mean the US. But still, in 1984, the closest thing the US had to an Alex Jones on the left was assassinated by Nazis. Nazis who went to prison, but not because they committed murder. Yeah, the story will get a little weird, but the gist is, in 1984, the left's Alex Jones' analogue was killed by Nazis, and that seems to have had a fairly chilling effect on left-wing shock jocks. It has. What's the writers had it's Bill Coopers, it's Rush Limbaugh's and now it's Tucker Carlson's The Left? In the US. Hasn't quite had prominent rivals to those Coopers, Limbaugh's or Carlson's. Although I guess we also have to point out that The Left's Alex Jones doesn't mean the male vitality, shilling, false flag, flying Alex Jones of today. Oh no. We're talking the more sensible Alex Jones of the early 2000s.
00:00:54
Speaker
Though even then more sensibles, doing a lot of heavy lifting. Anyway, in 1984, the world lost the left's Alex Jones. His name was Alan Berg. And this is the story of his assassination.
Hosts' Banter and Episode Introduction
00:01:09
Speaker
The podcast's guide to the conspiracy featuring Josh Addison and Em Denton.
00:01:22
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the podcaster's guide to the conspiracy in Auckland, New Zealand. I am Josh Addison and in Zhuhai, China, where's the beef? As associate professor, you are extinct. Now see what happened was, I went, I realized I'd forgotten to do the looking up a movie tagline to introduce him a thing. And so quickly, Google taglines only to find what the the first article I clicked on called taglines were actually advertising slogans. And I wasn't going to look up a second page. So there you go. See, I also would have exceeded accepted with the cranny, granny.
00:01:55
Speaker
Well, yeah, a little bit parochial, that one. Do they have that outside of... Well, the thing is, that was a Canadian
Confusion Between Movie Taglines and Ads
00:02:02
Speaker
advertisement, I believe. Was it? So it was an imported ad. And I don't... And i say it's one of those things I don't know whether the advertisers didn't realise what where's the cranny granny would mean in New Zealand. It was an ad for cranberry juice, just for those who don't know. or whether they knew exactly what it would mean to New Zealanders and played it nonetheless. Because, let's just say, Cranny wrote a Fanny. Well, it also by itself just means a small gap that could easily be a
Controversial Advertisements Discussion
00:02:32
Speaker
euphemism. But anyway, do you remember the racist fly spray ads?
00:02:36
Speaker
completely off topic. Do you remember there was an ad for Fly Spray? Although you'll probably remind me. Yeah. There was an ad, it was Raid or one of the brands, and it was... a Black Flag, possibly. One of them. It was, um and the ad was your sort of typical New York Jewish guy being very stereotypical and and and stereotypically Jewish about what good value this Fly Spray was and stuff. And people, and and evidently people immediately said, dude, that's that's ah that's a That's a bit much. like it was It was a very, very heavily stereotyped thing. And obviously, I'm assuming what happened. I have no proof of this. I assume what happened was they said to the advertising agency, come on, guys, this is this is this is borderline racist. What are you doing? And the advertising person said, ah sure, there's nothing racist about what's, just just
00:03:27
Speaker
the the The copy was fine. It was just because they happened to choose ah an offensive Jewish stereotype to deliver the lines was the only problem. So then not long after, they there was another ad with the exact same dialogue, but this time being spoken by like some sort of a tough guy, Ronnie Cray, London gangster type. It was the weirdest thing. It's completely irrelevant to anything we're about to say in this episode, but it happened a good 30 years ago and it's bothered me ever since. You're listening to the podcast's guide to ads that Josh remembers that Em doesn't.
Josh's Travel Plans and Podcast Logistics
00:04:04
Speaker
Well, in that case, can you remember what you've been up to the last two weeks? Well, Josh, I'm getting ready for a trip because this time next week I'll be on a train to Guangzhou to stay the night at an airport. at Baiyun International Airport, because at 8am in the morning, I realise some people say that's a tautology, but I decide to emphasis 8am in the morning, I'll be flying to Heathrow. where you be I'll be flying to Beijing, and then from Beijing, flying to Heathrow, to then go to Canterbury, where the cathedral's located, the only cathedral in the known world,
00:04:41
Speaker
to attend a workshop organised by Karen Douglas for her ERC funded consequences underscore FX project of which I am an advisor on. And then Josh, after I've been in Canterbury, I'm going to Romania for five days. I'm going back to beloved Bucharest for a five day holiday before I flee back to London and then get on a plane and flee back to China. So I've been preparing a talk I'm giving at that workshop and also preparing my time in Bucharest. Right. So what I'm hearing is the vampirism is starting to wear off and you've had to contrive an excuse to go back to Romania and and get another shot. It's true. There is a blood source in the botanical gardens I do need to visit.
00:05:27
Speaker
Well, there we go. So what's that going to mean for the next episode? Will we record one early? Will we record one not at all? Will you send us cryptic dispatches from your travels? So there are probably going to be dispatches, probably going to be one or two dispatches, dispending, one or two dispatches, dispending. And I don't need to say anything more than that. But the people who don't know what the spending is, and I do realize some of our audience is not aware of of newly invented slang terms I've just come up with on the hoof. But there will be probably some material from the workshop and probably if I get time
00:06:09
Speaker
some interviews with some of the participants at the workshop. The problem is actually scheduling podcast interviews at a workshop is quite difficult because your time is always at a premium but I have a few days after the conference and hopefully I might be able to snag some members of thepirator of the consequences underscore FX team and ask them some penetrating questions about their research into these things called conspiracy theories.
Alan Berg's Radio Career and Impact
00:06:36
Speaker
My goodness. Well, so it sounds like you've got um you've got you've got some fun in the immediate future, but not the immediate immediate future because now we're going to talk about a story that's not really not not not really fun at all.
00:06:49
Speaker
Unfortunately. No, no, it's not. We're going to talk about the fact that Nazis killed someone. Hmm. Hmm. Oh, well, I guess play a chime, maybe an upbeat, jingly one, maybe a maybe a respectful sombre one, which I don't think we have. But no, mean we don't we don't really do sombre on this podcast. No, no. Well, play a chime anyway and then we'll talk about it.
00:07:16
Speaker
So the um this episode came about because, as i as as I've said numerous times, one of my favorite podcasters and two is Behind the Bastards. And they recently did, ah so actually it was, a they re-released some old episodes talking about the history of right-wing shock jocks in America. from I think it was Joe Pine who basically invented the concept of talk radio almost out of bloody mindedness through to the sort of now in New Zealand we never really got we we got Jerry Springer in New Zealand who I think was more at the end of it we never got Morton Downey Jr. is the one I hear them talk about those
00:07:57
Speaker
the the sort of the TV talk in quotes shows that were really just about people yelling abuse and getting into fights, the ones where actual fist fights started on the year, those those sorts of super, I remember Dr. Phil playing during our university career. He wasn't, he wasn't, he wasn't the Like, I don't believe that anybody ever started a fight on the set of Dr. Phil. And no one's ever made a musical about the life of Dr. Phil, but they did make a musical about Jerry Springer. Yes, that is actually true. And so it's very interesting. I'd recommend listening to it if if if you um have a moment. but um
00:08:37
Speaker
It was also interesting to see that then on the subreddit for Behind the Bars, did somebody posted a link where they basically said that the all all of all of the all of the shock jock types that they talked about seemed to be very, very right wing conservative. They spent most of their time yelling at liberals and anyone. I mean, basically the history life history of shock jock seems to have been starting off with kids these days. leading on to they've put poison in the water to explain kids these days and didn't seem to be that many of ah of a leftward persuasion and this person suggested that a reason for that might be that the biggest left wing i don't i guess shock shock is kind of the term the the biggest left wing person of this ilk uh was murdered in 1984 now i don't like that
00:09:28
Speaker
That was the implication that that this had sort of a chilling effect on on the left. I don't know if that's actually true or not. Maybe it's just that the left went into it. I mean, like you say, we we don't have a we don't have an Alex Jones of the left. We we have a John Oliver, say. like There are definitely left with people who quite ruthlessly ridicule people on the right, but there isn't the level of sort of abuse and sort of violent abuse. that you saw on the right in in the earlier times. So, Joshua, nowll I've now located the beef. You have beef with the intro of this episode by going, well, actually, Alan Berg really wasn't the Alex Jones of the left. He was simply a left-wing talk show host. that He was in Jerry Springer of the left. Also, it occurred to me when we were doing the intro that, of course, Alex Jones didn't even have a career at the point where Alan Berg died.
00:10:22
Speaker
Well, no, no, obviously, but that's beside the point. The same sort of thing at different times. But no, so we thought, given that especially the nature of his death was particularly conspiratorial, that would be an interesting thing to talk about now. And infamously associated with a certain set of words. Yes, yes, we'll get to that too. So, I mean, who was Allen Berg? He started off as a criminal trial lawyer. He had a brain tumor. And so if you look for pictures of him, he had this big sort of mop of white hair. Yeah, to the point where it actually looks like a wig, but it's not.
00:10:59
Speaker
No, apparent which apparently he sort of grew that way to cover the scars from his brain tumor operation. Yeah, so it's fairly, I mean, being killed by Nazis is a tragic story in itself, but the story of his brain tumor is also fairly tragic. So he was a kind of high profile criminal trial lawyer in Illinois. And then he started getting very stressed and having episodes. So he started drinking to try to cure himself of this particular ill, which is a very common male activity in the 1970s, right up to the present day. it's just It's just one of those things that men seem to want to do. Rather than go see a doctor, they take up drinking and instead. But eventually, after he became an alcoholic because of the drinking he was doing, to cover up his it episodes, his wife persuaded him you should probably see a doctor, and it turned out his episodes were not stress related, they were due to a brain tumor which was then removed, and then as he was recovering
00:12:01
Speaker
from his surgery and going into remission for being a brain tumour, he stopped being a lawyer and then eventually slid into talk radio. So he was apparently very popular ah in Denver, I think is where he was based. selling head out here was his magic head help yeah So he had a radio show that I believe went further than just him, but he also had a television show at some point. From what I get, there is a clip of his TV show on YouTube. It's not exactly exciting.
00:12:36
Speaker
No, no, it's not. It's quite congenial, for one thing that the fellow he was chatting to, they sort of got on. but um But but supposedly he did use that same sort of very combative, very abusive style. He would he would talk to people. And if he disagreed with them, he would sort of wind them up and often hang up on them and then yell at them and abuse them after they'd gone and what have you. But he did tend to be have a more liberal bent, or at the very least he tended to to punch up rather than down. um So there's, a I found the story from the New York Times from 1984 actually reporting on his death, and from in that story they said, Mr. Berg's combative style, which some have called insult radio, appears to be a growing phenomenon. Such programs have been described as part of a larger social phenomenon, the popularity of joke books, discs, jockeys and movies that attack ethnic, religious or sexual groups.
00:13:31
Speaker
Unlike some of the insult entertainers, however, Mr Berg's attacks were usually on the intelligence of his callers and guests, or their ideas on serious issues, rather than on their sex, race, or nationality. So apparently he was he was not he was not afraid to call someone an idiot, but he'd be he'd be insulting them because he thought they had bad views, not because of any ah again not not not because they were the wrong sort of person Now we actually have some clips of Ellen's radio material. Now these clips are not great, in part because they date from the 1980s.
00:14:03
Speaker
They've been recorded off of a radio, and they have a lot of background hum and hiss. There has been some audio magic done to make them sound slightly better. And after you've listened to them, you'll be going, they kind of sounded worse, their listener, they could have done. But let me play you a clip of Alan Berg and the way that he talks with his audience. Just before I turned you on, from eight to nine, they had the ABC close-up put, and they were doing McCarthy hearings. 11,000 people. One of my favorite stories. The loss of jobs because you're accused of being communists. One of the most tragic errors in our country. They they interviewed two people on these 11,000. They did quite a job. McCarthy was a classic story even three years later. 30 years later it was. And it was 30 years later and these people were still trying to find a job.
00:14:57
Speaker
because they got from jobby job ever since Many people blackballed and suicides, what have you, all kinds of grotesque stories connected to some of the greatest people in this world. Based upon one maniac who scared everybody into an alleged communist threat to this country. All you had to do was say the word and you were dead. Talk about a deprivation of civil rights. There was never an uglier story. The very thing we talk about here, like the Manning case, we say, oh my God, look at that alleged child molester walking out of a court or a child killer, what have you. But you see, these laws are so valid in the sense of not having McCarthyism happen again. See, McCarthyism was trial by association, guilt by association. And that's the very thing people are trying to do now. See, it never goes away. McCarthyism is always a hairline away. Well, I think the church is too close to the bar.
00:15:46
Speaker
well keep laughing i'll spend good time with yourself and i imagine he always does Now that is the kind of thing that Alex Jones would like to think, he says. They're kind of sensible, I'm just talking about bad things that have happened in American history and the fact they keep coming back. It's the kind of way that Alex Jones thinks of himself as someone who has a radio show or an internet show. Now, he did um I did read one thing where in 1982 he did get in a bit of trouble with his station because um he had a go at a woman called Ellen Kaplan. um She had been in the news because apparently she she was in somewhere republican in at the airport, I think they said it was, and saw Henry Kissinger.
00:16:33
Speaker
and started shouting abuse at him madete made some comment about some some rumor about him. It's something something to do with with gay prostitutes or I can't remember exactly but we made something some vaguely sexual and homophobic um claims towards him Henry Kissinger, and was then I think, assaulted by the woman he was with her I can't remember, but but he tried to, I either had this woman on and hung up on her or tried to get her on fail, but basically spent his entire show just heaping abuse on this woman and ridiculing her for having a go at Henry Kissinger. So um he did he did sign with Kissinger at one point. so So who knows? Maybe he's just a complicated man. I was reading into that. And so he basically tried to get the person who attacked
00:17:21
Speaker
Kissinger and his wife verbally on the show ah so I think she was in local council or local gar government and when she did come on the show he just immediately started by claiming you're a vile woman why would you say these particular things and her reaction afterwards is interesting because her reaction afterwards is going well actually what Ellen is trying to do is trying to remind us of the way we talk to other people So it actually might have been a case of Ellenberg going, well, I mean, you not just attacked Henry Kissinger, but you also attacked his wife at the same time. So how would you feel if you got the same kind of attack upon your person? So her reaction to the Ellenberg incident is itself fairly fascinating, which I think just speaks to how complicated a character
00:18:13
Speaker
he actually was. So when I was reading up on Allenberg and in a website called AllThat'sInteresting.com, which is a section on Allenberg, they point out that he didn't pick on the poor, the frail, the undefended. He chose Roderick Elliott and Frank Bud-Ferrall, who wrote The Death of the White Race, an open letter to the Gentiles, and other people from the white supremacist groups. The groups who openly espouse hatreds of blacks, Jews, leftists, homosexuals, Hispanics, other minorities and religious groups.
00:18:48
Speaker
He also apparently would goad white supremacists to call in, and that's going to be important for the rest of our particular discussion.
Details of Alan Berg's Murder
00:18:57
Speaker
Yes, it is. But he also would like to point out that he, and this is a quote from him, hopefully my legal training will prevent me from saying the one thing that will kill me. And it was a recurring theme on his talk show that people would question, did he have a legal degree? And B, was he still allowed to practice law as the following clip will demonstrate. Like Alex Jones, he starts this with an ad read. Quality carpeting. So when you stop in there, I promise you, you're going to see the best selection of carpeting in the Rocky Mountain area. And even beyond that, there's lots of quality carpeting. You want to deal with a good merchant. Mike Noem is a man you're going to be proud to of business with. I'm proud to have him on the air as I was. He had exactly on my show. And I'd simply like you to get over there when you need carpeting. And so many of our listeners have bought their carpet here.
00:19:46
Speaker
You be one of them. He's a gentleman from the word go. I respect him immensely. He's the kind of man I always like to do. This is not just because of a handicap, because of what he's about, because he's not exclusively out for the bucks. He likes the good will. He likes to treat people right. There aren't too many of those around. Mike Newman is one of them. So get on over there. Michael's Carpets, 1989 South Federal Boulevard. So all of you heard it. Malinburg on KOA, Newstalk, 85. Line one, you're on air. Alan, I need to ask you a couple of three questions if you've asked me those. ah you You're an an attorney, aren't you? You're in. You were or is it a law? Sir, I am an attorney. Where did you practice law? In Alaska. In Alaska? Sir, I practiced in Illinois for 13 years. Oh, I heard something. I wanted just to see if it's true or not. Were you disbarred? I just put this little one. I want to hear it. OK. Were you disbarred? No, sir.
00:20:33
Speaker
And would you care to check it? Would you care to check it right now? Well, I'm just asking you. No, because yeah I don't like the drop, Val. Anybody, I've done this for seven years. I've been in this business. Get on the phone right now. Call the Chicago Bar Association. Ask them if the legal status of Ellen Bird. Will you do that? The other question I have for you is... Oh, now, wait a minute. Wait a minute. Did you hear what I just said? Heard you. OK. Do you accept but that, or do you challenge me? I am going to do that. Oh, do that right away. OK. Now, I have... All right, Allenberg on KOA, Newstalk 85, 861-TALK, 861825. For those of you who are interested in my legal status, certainly feel free. Because Chicago Bar Association is highly suspicious that I'm practicing law here without a license in the state of Colorado, because they get a lot of letters from new hostile folks out there saying, well, what am I, Allenberg? Yes, I'm licensed in the federal district court, Supreme Court, the state of Illinois. And those of you who want to check it, hey, be my guest. I have been since 1950, November. Let's see, November 1958. So that's a long time ago.
00:21:26
Speaker
So once again, the kind of thing that Alex Jones would like to have been. But unfortunately, on the night of the 18th of June 1984, he was shot to death outside his home outside the condominium apartment complex in the driveway as he was getting out of his car ah by someone. And when we say shot, He was machine gunned, basically. this was This was a very deliberate and very ah purposeful, I suppose, assassination. Not just a regular. Yes, so he was killed by someone holding a converted semi-automatic. So the semi-automatic had been converted into a full automatic. He was shot 12 times, and I believe 13 bullets were retrieved from the crime scene.
00:22:17
Speaker
So yes, I mean, this this was a particularly particularly violent death. Now, um his his death has gone on to inspire a number of plays, movies, books.
The Order and Their Motives
00:22:31
Speaker
if you've If you've heard of Oliver Stone's film, Talk Radio, that was based on a play by Eric Bogosian, which is then based on the murder of Allen Berg. Have you seen Talk Radio? No, I haven't seen much. i'm I'm not a big Oliver Stone fan, to be honest. No, nor I. I mean, it does raise an interesting question. What is it with Roger Stone? What is it with Roger roger Stone? That is that's a very good question, but not the one we're looking at today. And it's always, what is it with Roger Stone? But when I think of Roger Stone, I often think of Oliver Stone because they shared the same last name.
00:23:04
Speaker
And even at least one or two letters in their first name. Is that a coincidence? I don't think it is, anyway. It does make you wonder about Oliver Stone and his interest in conspiracy adjacent films. So there's a long chain of conspiracy in the work of Oliver Stone. Most famously JFK, but yeah. And you also have to wonder, what would ellen so what would Ellenberg have thought about a dramatization of his life and death?
00:23:36
Speaker
But also, what would he have thought about the modern-day Oliver Stone that produces documentary pay-ons towards Vladimir Putin? It must have been, it's actually kind of good that Allenberg didn't live to see the career of Oliver Stone, because it's very, very confusing. but um But movies aside, so his killers were... josh from On this podcast, movies aside, on this podcast, in this economy? For the moment, just for the moment, his killers were identified fairly quickly from the sounds of things as members of the neo-Nazi terrorist organization known as the Order, sometimes calling themselves the Brudishweigen, the Silent Brotherhood, because if if you're going to be neo-Nazis, you have to give yourself a German name, I suppose.
00:24:22
Speaker
um So this this is this is where this is where conspiracy goes ah comes in. and so While Allen Berg is a more interesting and and worthy person, we should probably talk about this bunch of neo-Nazis a fair bit. So the order was an offshoot of the Aryan Brotherhood. um It was formed in September 1983 by a man called Robert J. Matthews. Apparently it was not the first white supremacist organization he had he had put together. It sounds like he just just liked making white supremacist organizations.
00:24:52
Speaker
but um This one didn't last long. It was dissolved in December of 1984 on account of everyone got arrested and or killed. They were inspired by the Turner diaries. Now I'm sure we've mentioned the Turner diaries on multiple occasions and I know that we've ever really um gone into them in general, but then it's white supremacist politics, so who would want to? I mean, it is one of those things that we maybe one day should do an episode on, in part because The Turner Diaries has inspired quite a lot of
00:25:27
Speaker
fairly bad conspiracy theories leading to quite a lot of fairly bad activity by the people who believe those bad conspiracy theories. Yes, of which this is one example. So apparently the order that they wanted to start a revolution against the US government and had had grand designs of, you know, they'd take down the government and then basically make a America a place for white straight Christian people and everyone else could bugger off. ah Didn't work out, you'll be surprised to hear. These sorts of plans need a bit of money, they needed to do things like buy guns and stuff like that and they um
00:26:09
Speaker
had a few plans to try and make money. At first, apparently, they tried actual work. They they thought they could you know bid on labor contracts and and get paid for that work. They won a bid on a timber trimming contract for a national park, but um that that that didn't work out for them. That was too much like hard work from the sounds of things. So they moved on to good old fashioned robbery. Apparently, they were originally opposed to the idea of stealing money for the cause because theft is a sin and they were a good Christian neo-Nazi white supremacist organization. But then eventually one of the weirdest sentences ever uttered by a human being, a good white supremacist neo-Nazi organization.
00:26:49
Speaker
but But then eventually they talked themselves into the idea that well wouldn't it it wouldn't be bad if they if they were robbing bad people, if they were robbing the pimps and drug dealers who they obviously thought the streets were teeming with. So actually they did the Robin Hood defend. Well, we're selling from the rich to aid the poor. or stealing from the bed to aid the good, having to find ourselves as good. Now, I read the the Wikipedia article on the order in Ellenberg, and the Wikipedia article on the order has has the following sentence. dream After weeks of trailing black men in flashy cars, they realized they had no idea what a pimple drug dealer looked like citation needed and decided to switch to other crimes for funding.
00:27:30
Speaker
Now, that's a that's a fun. I'd like to believe that was true, but even Wikipedia points out it's a line that's been included there with no proof whatsoever. But at any rate, they did they did start robbing. um they They robbed it the first shop they they robbed was apparently like a pornographic video shop or something. But they moved on. They have to rob from the bad from the bad people. Pornography is bad. Yeah, but then i guess they I guess they suddenly came across all socialists and decided that banks were bad as well because they robbed at least one bank and a number of armored cars, all non-violently as far as I can tell, although they did at one point set off some sort of an incendiary thing to cause a panic in a theater, which which which whicht was a ah divert to to be a diversion while they were busy robbing this armored car, but no one was harmed.
00:28:22
Speaker
um They also decided to have a go at counterfeiting, but weren't much good at that. And that would eventually come to bite them a little bit later. But once they'd raised a bit of cash and were ready to put some of their their plans in motion, they'd drawn up a hit list of people to go after. And Alan Berg was on it. At number two? Yeah. Well, he was he was the only one they actually managed to go after as far as I'm aware. Did they? Yes. and Admittedly, the question as to who was number one is interesting.
00:28:56
Speaker
Because according to Wikipedia, he was number two. And the citation as to why he was number two comes from a book by Morris Dees and Steve Pfeiffer's Hate on Trial, The Case Against America's Most Dangerous Neo-Nazi. And that book, which is co-authored by Morris Dees, claims that Morris Dees was number one and Berg was number two. And that's the only citation I can find for saying that there was a ranked list of people the order are going to go after. And of course, if you're writing a book on how
00:29:35
Speaker
There was a plot against you. Of course you're going to go, well, I was number one on the list, not number two. You want to kind of emphasize your importance here. So according to the book, Hate on Trial, The Case Against America's Most Dangerous Neo-Nazis, Morris D. was number one, Berg was number two. Now Dease himself is an American attorney known as the co-founder and former Chief Trial Counsel for the Southern Poverty Law Center. So you can kind of see why the order might have someone like Dease as being at the very top of their list. Although we should point out that Dease was also fired from the SPLC in 2019 for sexual harassment. So his career hasn't necessarily been one which is vanglorious.
00:30:22
Speaker
Their hitlists also include a TV producer called Norman Lear, a federal judge from Kansas, and of course, Alan Berg. And you you could probably gather from what we said so far why they would be opposed to him. And for starters, what we haven't mentioned was that he was Jewish, which is bad enough, I think, if if you're a if you're a If you're a Christian nationalist. A Nazi hate group and a Christian nationalist, yeah. He had apparently not long before his murder, he had had on people from the Christian identity movement, who had believed things such as the idea that Jews were descended from hayton from from Satan, and he and haton older um he had He had given them the the the full treatment, had been particularly dismissive and
00:31:04
Speaker
ridiculing of the And remember, he was he was constantly goading white supremacists to call into the show. Now, this is not to say we're gauging any victim blaming here. No, it was probably at the top of the white supremacist Christian nationalist list because He was goading them to appear on the show, so he would have made he would have made for them an obvious, well, who keeps on trying, who keeps on making us stupid on air? It's that bloody Allen Berg. He's the first on our list. Yes, if if you're a hateful white supremacist, Chitea Allen Berg would be the sort of person that he would hate the most.
Legal Proceedings and Convictions
00:31:41
Speaker
yeah Now, um four members of the order were identified as being responsible for Berg's murder. Their names were Gene Craig, David Lane, Bruce Pierce, and Richard Scutari. Apparently, Bruce Pierce was identified as the shooter, and David Lane was apparently the getaway driver. If you're if you're um familiar with your white supremacist, you might recognize the name David Lane. um He is the man, now, he let's Let's just quickly dive into a bit of Neo-Nazi ephemera. The number 14, you may be aware, comes up in Neo-Nazi. It's a bit a bit of a meme, a bit of a slogan. 1488 is something, you you hear these numbers a lot. 88 being ah basically code for Heil Hitler. eight H is the eighth letter of the alphabet. So 88 is HH, which is Heil Hitler. And then the 14 is a reference to what is referred to as the 14 words. It was this 14-word phrase
00:32:39
Speaker
ah which I cannot be bothered to look up because screw them. It's to do with wind it's ah something about we need to protect the future for our white children or something. But so the reason why 14... Yeah, it's ah it's one of the systemine for yeah sort of those cryptic phrases where is ah it doesn't sound too bad because it's not a clear reference to the Nazis. Which, chart yes, which is why eyebrows were raised not too long ago when people noticed, a I think it was a flooring company in Christchurch, home of neo-Naziism in New Zealand, ah who whose whose van proudly identified that he charged a rate of $14.88 a meter.
00:33:19
Speaker
And people are like, we know what you're saying there. that's yeah But anyway, so that's that's David Lane. And also, I believe David Lane originated the 14 words in prison. Yes, yeah while he was in prison, presumably for these crimes. These 14 words don't predate his trial and incarceration. David Lee is an unrepentant, unapologetic Nazi. yeah Or was. He's dead, I think. He is dead. So now the Denver District Attorney didn't think he could get a murder charge to stick. I guess
00:33:55
Speaker
I believe Berg was with his wife. I think that he he was he were they was they were sort of estranged, but we're trying to patch it up again, I think at the time. So I think she was possibly there to witness it, but she would have been the only witness. So apparently there wasn't that they didn't think there was enough evidence that they could um they could be would be to secure a conviction for murder. again This is I mean, this is one part of the story which I find I find kind of hard to comprehend that you have A person who's been shot 12 times. And you're going, I don't know whether we can call this murder. Well, it's not that we're done if we can call it murder, but we're done if we can specifically pin these people to the murder. And, but fortunately at that point, the federal government stepped in. that the The FBI had been on to the order for a little while. We'll get into that in a minute. And so all of these people were indicted on federal charges for Berg's murder and others. So of those four people, only David Lane and Bruce Pierce were actually convicted in the Berg case. And interestingly, they weren't charged with murder. They were convicted of violating Berg's civil rights, which I believe is like but because it was essentially a hate crime, because they'd
00:35:11
Speaker
That killed him for being Jewish was the end. They got him for... They got him. They got Lane and Pierce for Killingberg because he was Jewish. yeah So they violated his civil rights. So they didn't they didn't get convicted on murder. They got convicted on a hate crime for assaulting a Jewish person because they were Jewish. And it just happens to be by accident. that that assault also led to the person being shot 12 times. Or at least, yeah, the fact that he died. Yeah. So essentially, that the yeah, it's something people will point out. No one was ever charged with Allen Berg's murder. People went to jail for a long time because of his murder, but and they weren't actually convicted of murder. They got, so Lane and Pierce got 150 years apiece because America loves their wacky prison sentences.
00:36:01
Speaker
Um, in addition to other racketeering and conspiracy charges, as I say, the FBI had been onto them for other things. Um, so Laney ended up getting an extra 40 years, 190 year sentence. P.S. ended up with a 252 year sentence. which and and i so I have to say, I read that and I can't have mixed feelings about it a little bit, because yes, yay, yeah it's it's good. It's good that these people who committed a horrible murder ended up going down for a very, very long time because of it. But I do feel a little bit a little bit uneasy about the fact that the US government can sort of say to a DA, oh, you you can't get that murder charge to stick. You don't think you've got enough to to prove it in court. Well, don't worry. we We'll make sure they go down for the rest of their lives anyway.
00:36:45
Speaker
It's like, in this case, yeah, that all worked out as it should. Well, yeah you since the 150 years apiece were for racketeering and conspiracy charges. And you might think that maybe 150 years for racketeering or conspiracies seems, I mean, just seems slightly excessive. The 150 was for the murder, well, for for the violation of civil rights, but then the stuff that got loaded on top of that, I think, was for the racketeering and the conspiracy. So 40 years for racketeering and 102 extra years for conspiracy. or Something like that, yeah. So the other two, Gene Craig and Richard Scattari, they weren't convicted in the matter of Berg's death, but they also received decades-long prison sentences again for the conspiracy racketeering stuff.
00:37:32
Speaker
but just not for the the the violating the civil rights of Mr. Berg. And so, yeah, the rest of the order, as far as I know, basically went the same way. And it all happened because one of the members turned informant. A fellow called Tom Martinez, who's from the Sounds of Things was sort of ah a lower ranking guy. He didn't seem to have been involved in so much of the bad stuff. They just got him trying to, um though they were using him to pass off the counterfeit notes that they'd been producing. So apparently he he got arrested. As I say, they weren't very good at the counterfeiting. And so their notes were a bit rubbish. And when he tried to use one at a liquor store, um he was caught and got arrested for it. And um after he had been released on bail, presumably, ah Robert Matthews, the again, the leader, the the guy who founded the order, had told him he knew he needs to disappear, he needs to go away. And apparently he said that he was going to kill the liquor store owner to stop him from testifying against Mr. Martinez. And Mr. Martinez was like, okay, that's that's that's
00:38:27
Speaker
a step too far for me. I'm okay with but a bit of counterfeiting, but I don't want people murdering in my name." So he he apparently, he voluntarily went to the FBI and said, I want to be informant informant for you. And so ah because of that, and because of whatever other evidence they're able to gather, the air Federal Government bought multiple RICO cases against the order, handing down sentences to 17 people in the end, that which which includes the four involved in Berg's death. So there was, again, the the Wikipedia article has a nice table of these 17 people and all the sentences they got. I think one of them got a read was only sort of six months or something. I don't know exactly what they had done, but the majority of them
00:39:07
Speaker
served what was sentenced to multiple decades in prison. But not Robert J. Matthews, not the founder of the order himself, because he never made it to trial. When the feds came for him in the December of 1984, he refused to surrender. A shootout started, the house that he was sheltering in got set on fire by an incendiary flare or something, um and he died. So ah white supremacists at the time consider him a martyr to the cause. Everyone else thinks he's a dick. At least he's a dead dick.
Legacy and Overlooked Impact of Berg's Death
00:39:37
Speaker
He's a dead dick, yeah. yeah Now, of course, the end of The Order wasn't the end of white supremacist terrorism in the US. um In a way, it was only the beginning. that There was an immediate sequel. Some people tried to start up a second, The the Order 2. But from what I hear, that didn't last very long. But certainly right wing white supremacist terrorism um only only escalated from there. It's really only been on the rise since 1984, hitting new heights on a year by year basis.
00:40:04
Speaker
most most distractively and fatally in 1995, of course, with the Oklahoma City bombing, which is B, which was the the the founding canonical example in the modern conspiracy theory, ah theory of literature, I guess. There was, I found an article from the Denver Post from 2009, sort of saying 25 years on from from Berg's murder, where are we at? And to quote that article, Berg slain Martin early signpost on the roads that led to the 1995 Oklahoma City bombings, said Mark Potok, director of the Intelligence Project at the Southern Poverty Law Center in montgom ah Montgomery, Alabama.
00:40:40
Speaker
In a sense, he said, it was one of the opening shots of a truly revolutionary radical right, perfectly willing to countenance the mass murder of American civilians for their cause. So, yeah, I mean, it certainly, whether whether or not um it it had a chilling effect specifically on left-wing people wanting to get into that style of of talk radio, definitely significantly significant. I heard sort of some people say it was, in a way, it had a positive effect in that it was a very public murder, and that actually made people aware of the danger of these white supremacist types, which is good at least. But again, 11 years later, um d the what is it the the second most deadly terrorist attack in
00:41:29
Speaker
on American soil and the most deadly domestic terrorism attack on American soil. Now, an interesting point, which um didn't actually occur to me, but ends the academic year, so you are well onto it, is this is and and a good and significant case of a conspiratorial act. Does it show up much in the literature on conspiracy theories? No, so I did a database search using the my own personal database of all the works I've collected over the last 15 years also of collecting work on conspiracy theory theory, and the references are a
00:42:06
Speaker
tiny tiny sub 1% actually sub 0.1% of the database. So I found two academic mentions. So in an MA thesis on Kerry Bolton there is a mention of berg's murderberg's murder when talking about the kind of the way that the modern pagan movement has also had some kind of overlap with the Christian nationalist white supremacist movement. So if you're a white nationalist pagan, you often play around with white nationalist Christians. It turns out that even though Christians will claim that their religious identity is very, very important to them,
00:42:54
Speaker
Turns out that when they're white nationalists, they're quite happy to associate with other white nationalists of different religious creeds. There is also a reference in Daniel Pipes' book, How the Paranoid Style Flourishes and Where It Comes From, which mentions Berg very briefly in a list of events inspired by the Turner diaries, as we move away from academic mentions into more semi-academic mentions. Chip Berlay, who we've never really talked about much, but in the
00:43:26
Speaker
80s and 90s in particular was kind of a big deal for looking at conspiracy theories. In his article Dutters with Devils, how apocalyptic and millennialist themes influenced right-wing scapegoating and conspiracism, he mentions how scapegoating along identity grounds led neo-Nazis and the alt-right to focus on assassinating Berg. And interestingly enough, In Michael Schoemer's book, Conspiracy, Why the Rational Believe the Irrational, he mentions Berg with respect to the inventor of the Fourteen Words, something I did not recall at all. So, i yes, so sadly, I think Alan Berg's murder has become a little bit of a footnote, basically, and possibly not literally in Schoemer's book. Yes, I don't remember coming across that line either. um But it was very brief from the sound of things.
00:44:21
Speaker
Yeah, there's I only found one other reference to Berg, and it's in a deplorable book, ah written by mike well edited by Mike Palachuk. The book is called Nobody Died at Sandy Hook, and you can tell by the name of the book exactly what it is about. It is kind of the urtex for Sandy Hook false flag conspiracy theories, and in the breakfast to the book, which is written by Mike Palachik, he also mentions the death of Allenberg,
00:44:54
Speaker
in part to show that there's been a long history of terrorism in the United States to then move on immediately to claim the American government is responsible for those terrorist acts. Right. So, yes, it's um it's a little bit sad, I guess, that that the um this man's death has almost been forgotten, I suppose, or at least, I mean, I'm sure in more ah and areas, more local where where he had a stronger presence and where he was more widely known. It's probably um'm still remembered, but by the world at large seems to have gone on by because it is an interesting case of a very obvious act of conspiracy um with tragic consequences. I mean, in part, I have to think it's due to the fact that the product that he produced, which was talk radio, is a kind of ephemera. It existed at a point in time where people weren't archiving these things. There was no YouTube. There was no Spotify. There was no way to put these things online. And presumably most of those tapes were simply wiped or not even ever recorded. They were live broadcasts.
00:46:03
Speaker
And so there just isn't that much of Ellenberg's career left for people to then point back to. And even though his assassination by neo-Nazis is a kind of interesting historical event, the problem is it was only the beginning of neo-Nazi Christian identity, white nationalism in the United united States. They kept on doing it. And so this example is now so far in the past compared to so many more recent terrible examples of violence by people inspired by the same work that we talk about those examples and we just don't have time to then go back and say, well, it all started.
00:46:50
Speaker
with the death of a shock jock in Denver. Yes, yes. If you want to show an example of how dangerous white nationalist terrorism can be, you're going to point to the Oklahoma City bombing. Or you're going to point to a recent African-American church that was burnt down with prisoners inside. Yeah. So, but nevertheless, an interesting story. And I'm i'm i'm glad I stumbled po stumbled across it because, yeah, Burke himself seemed to have sounded like an interesting fellow.
00:47:22
Speaker
ah but ah who had a slightly difficult life and unfortunately a tragic end. o a But now it's time for this episode to come to its tragic conclusion. um I mean, Josh, I don't think we can really make a comparison between the end of the episode and someone being assassinated by the Nazis. No, but it's the end and I'm sure some people will be sad because they love us so much and hate to hear us go. it's what i That's what I tell myself so that I'm able to keep going. ah But of course it's not the end. It's not it's it's never it's never truly the end, um because there's always a bonus episode that we go and record for our beloved patrons. And and speaking of things never ever ending, we've got a bit of Emh370 to talk about, the case that we've been inside. As we've always said, if that gets solved, the podcast ends. It just ends.
00:48:11
Speaker
Yeah, but but it would there won't even be a final episode. As you know, I suppose technically we would have to do a final episode would have to do then the results of the MH370 investigation shows that blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and then just end at that particular point. But yeah, yeah it's an ongoing concern. So we're going to talk about him. We're also going to talk about what the IDF knew about the Hamas terror attacks before they occurred. We'll be talking about the fact that Pentagon ran a disinformation campaign around COVID vaccines to try to persuade people not to get vaccinated. And you might think that Hunter Biden was convicted, but you'd be wrong. And late minute breaking news.
00:48:55
Speaker
Turns out the CEO of the Boeing Corporation has admitted to Congress that Boeing has retaliated against whistleblowers in the past, which is a fairly embarrassing thing to say generally, but it has got people raising their eyes around the, so what about those whistleblowers who died mysteriously recently? Are you admitting to murder, sir? So we'll be talking about all of that in our bonus episode this week, a bonus episode that you can get If you become a patron of the podcast's Guide to the Conspiracy, just go to patreon dot.com, look up the podcast's Guide to the Conspiracy. You just pledge $1 a month of any currency form. You get access to our bonus episodes. That's as little as we want from you. And if you do become a patron, you become a golden child. hey It's scientifically proven.
00:49:53
Speaker
that um the patrons of our podcast are better than other people, including us. We are we are but worms at their feet. yeah I mean, i mean when when I got the test back and found out that I wasn't as good as a patron of our podcast, I was shocked. I was absolutely shocked. When you think about it, it's fear. yeah I sat myself down, I talked to myself and said, look, you're not a patron of this podcast. You could be, but you're not. You'll never be as good as them. You'll never be as good as them. No matter how many books you write, no matter how many papers you publish, no matter how high your H index gets.
00:50:32
Speaker
you'll never be as good as a patron of this podcast. But there's no pressure, no pressure. Be a patron, don't be a patron, it's a free world. And with that, I think um i think we'd better get on. we we've we've we We've talked ourselves up enough that we'd better go and record this bonus episode, but that means that this is this episode has to end, and to signify the ending of this episode, I will say goodbye. Goodbye and good riddance to Nazis.
00:51:01
Speaker
The podcast is Guide to the Conspiracy, stars Josh Addison and myself, associate professor M.R.X. Stentors. Our show's cons... sorry, producers are Tom and Philip, plus another mysterious anonymous donor. You can contact Josh and myself at podcastconspiracyatgmail.com, and please do consider joining our Patreon.
00:51:27
Speaker
And remember, Soylent Green is meeples.