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Lobbing Scorchers: Should You Care About Leagues Cup?
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Lobbing Scorchers is a production of Just Once Media.
Lobbing Scorchers is a Seattle Sounders and MLS focused show brought to you by Sounder at Heart. Hosted by Major League Soccer's Ari Liljenwall and Producer Noah Riffe. Join us as we lob our scorching takes on the American soccer landscape, Seattle Sounders, Major League Soccer, USMNT and more.
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Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Overview
00:00:00
Speaker
Well sir, we got a scorcher today. Gonna be a real scorcher today. Quite the scorcher today. Well it's gonna be scorcher.
00:00:53
Speaker
What's going on, everybody?
Sounders vs. Atlanta United Preview
00:00:54
Speaker
Welcome in to another episode of Lobbing Scorchers. We are recording this on Thursday morning ahead of the Seattle Sounders match this weekend at Atlanta United and coming off their 3-2 win over the San Jose Earthquakes.
00:01:08
Speaker
We got a lot to get to. It's one more game before the League's Cup break with this road match at Atlanta United. And then and the whole league will be going on a little hiatus to...
00:01:21
Speaker
play this tournament against these Liga Mekis clubs. We're going to talk about that in depth a little bit later. We're going to get Noah's takes on the Pedro de la Vega breakout slash agenda.
00:01:33
Speaker
The race for a top four seat in the West is in full swing. We're going to look at the table a little bit and also ah surprisingly positive Joe Paulo injury update. That's I'm happy to be able to ah relay that news to anyone who might not know.
00:01:46
Speaker
ah We're going to hit all that, hit our agenda check and more on a jam-packed episode. Noah, we have not recorded one of these in in a few days. How are you doing? I'm doing well, Ari. It's been ah it's been a whirlwind. I ah slept through my alarm the first time we tried to record this, or I didn't even set it to be more to be more specific.
00:02:07
Speaker
So ah clearly locked in on the grind. And, you know, does that count as a technical mishap, a Lobbing Scorchers technical mishap? Because I feel like not setting your alarm, maybe. Maybe that's a... Yeah, it's like a slightly different category, story but I think that it does fall in the same category.
00:02:24
Speaker
Happens to the best of us. I would be yeah lying to sit here and say that it's never happened to me. So it's just ah it's good to be recording this now. ah There's a lot to talk about. So ah let's get into it. But before we do all that.
00:02:37
Speaker
I do have to let you all know that Lobbing Scorchers is a part of the Sounder at Heart podcast
Supporting the Podcast
00:02:41
Speaker
network. If you want to get the best independent Seattle soccer coverage, consider supporting us by going to sounderatheart.com slash LS. Scroll down to subscribe and support to get 30 days completely free. Every sign up through our link helps support and grow this show.
00:02:52
Speaker
ah Road to 100 subs. Do we have any any updates on that? Are we closing in? Are we there? Are we not there? What's going on with that? Listen, the last but last member that we got was 24 days ago, Ari. 24 days ago. that's I mean, that's like a long time.
00:03:10
Speaker
Okay? and I'm going to shout them out because... Honestly, like, you know, you held it down strong. You were the last person to actually commit to becoming a Soundert Heart member and getting the best Seattle soccer coverage.
00:03:22
Speaker
And that was Jacob Cargill-Blay. Okay. So be like Jacob. Okay. We're on the road. I think we literally need like five more or something like that. Let's so let's let's do, let's bring back ah old tactic. We're at what, 95? Let's see if we can get to 96 Soundert Heart subs by the next episode.
00:03:41
Speaker
Sounder at heart.com slash LS. It is one of, if not the best ways to support the show, other great ways to support the show, including, but not limited to becoming a YouTube member.
00:03:52
Speaker
Correct. Buying the Lobbing Scorchers hot sauce. LobbingScorchers.com slash sauce. yep And if you have yet to get your new Orca kit, LobbingScorchers.com slash archive.
00:04:04
Speaker
Or any of the archive collection. I'm wearing a blues one right now. Yeah, and it's fire. ah Lobbingscourters.com slash archive. That's another great way to support the show. Shout out to our sponsors.
00:04:17
Speaker
Hacks and Ferments. Podium menswear. Football wines. My dad removal. ah Sub to the YouTube channel. Follow us on Instagram and TikTok. I think that's it.
00:04:28
Speaker
And we should jump on LinkedIn. We should start posting on LinkedIn, Ari. I think that's really a good platform for us. If you want to fire that one up, by all means. I got a LinkedIn that I don't really use. So maybe I can just change display name the picture and we can just use that.
00:04:46
Speaker
um
MLS All-Star Game Recap
00:04:48
Speaker
All right. No, I mean, I do have to get your De La Vega takes, but ah real quick before we we get into that, ah the MLS All-Star game did happen last night. I was covering it.
00:05:00
Speaker
I watched it. ah And ah the MLS All-Stars did beat the Liga and Mechies All-Stars three to one in the game. So I think that we can take that as definitive proof.
00:05:11
Speaker
that uh mls has now usurped league amecis as the superior league based on one exhibition match where guys were rotating in every five to ten minutes uh but no in all seriousness you know the all-star game it's it's kind of a meme at least around here of like we actively don't want any seattle players in it especially because they got 27 tournaments and 220 games
00:05:36
Speaker
this year and it just feels like an added thing. Obed Vargas, we already, he's the one Seattle all-star that ended up making it. We've been talking a lot this season about how he's playing too many minutes. He played more minutes than I would have liked in this game. Yeah. They brought him in. And he played the Eagles Challenge. Let's not forget.
00:05:52
Speaker
That I'm a little less worried about the wear and tear. If it was just that I would, I wouldn't think much of it. ah But they did bring them on at 62. And I was like, all right, let's get them out at like 66. I think that should just about do it.
00:06:05
Speaker
And then I think I don't know, I wasn't paying that close attention, to be honest with you, but I'm pretty sure he played like the rest of the game he did yeah i yeah so i mean and you know it's whatever he's 19 he can probably handle it i imagine he's gonna start uh at atlanta as well probably play the full 90 in that game too uh but as you know as for the game itself the all-star game uh you know i think it's fine for what it is. Like the the one i was watching it. i was like the one cool thing about this or just like the concept of an all-star game in general, like getting to see a team where ah it's like Denny Bawanga serving Sam Surridge for a goal, Diego Rossi feeding Ty Buribo, you know,
00:06:43
Speaker
It's the only context ah context where you'd see stuff like that. So the team that MLS put out there, i think in like the last couple years, especially when I look at when they when the 11 actually takes the field.
00:06:56
Speaker
Like last night, i was like, damn, this team is pretty sick. Like Sam Surge, Denny Wonga, Diego Rossi. Tristan Blackman anchor in the back line. It was a, it was a pretty stacked squad and they played well. They scored three goals and won the, won the game.
00:07:13
Speaker
So even if Obed Vargas got more minutes than I would have liked, was, it was ah was fine. Do you have any all-star takes?
Young Player Highlights
00:07:21
Speaker
I got a couple of all-star takes. I mean, Obed Vargas matching up against his 16-year-old counterpart, Striker.
00:07:28
Speaker
That kid is wonder kid sick. The goal he scored was like, du he's sick. He is. ah Listen, I've obviously been down on the U.S. men's national team for various reasons. But let me tell you, here's another one.
00:07:43
Speaker
Here's another reason to be down on the U S men's national team and believe in the Mexico resurgence because, Oh my God. Oh my God. That kid was incredible. He was so fun to watch.
00:07:54
Speaker
Taylor Twelman said something kind of stupid, but I love you, Taylor. He said, Listen, listen, if I'm an MLS owner, I'm throwing a bag at this kid. I don't, I'm, I'm throwing a bag at this kid. That kid's going to like Manchester city or something. Brother, you can't throw a bag heavy enough to get that man to play in major league soccer.
00:08:12
Speaker
Like that's not happening. Also he's in league Mickey's. They're never giving him up to MLS. That's just like not going happen. Not to MLS, but like, he seems like on this different level where he's going to the,
00:08:23
Speaker
Like, we talk about how Liga Mech's players very seldom, if ever, go to Europe like that. yeah Yeah. They got to get that kid to Europe. That was ah that was a great goal.
00:08:34
Speaker
And he also was disgusting in the Gold Cup, if you remember. Yeah, dude. Yeah. He was one of the best players on the field whenever he was playing. So I think they might have, like... like genuine prodigy status there, which mean, good for El Tri. I mean, imagine he and Obed, like Obed being the one to give him service and play on it him, playing off Obed and stuff.
00:08:55
Speaker
El Tri, they got a they got a youth movement going. That's ah certainly looking better than whatever poke in the gang have going on with the U S you know what you could call it, Ari.
00:09:08
Speaker
You could call it a golden generation. Yeah. golden generation. And they actually won a gold cup. Hopefully, it ah their golden generation works out better for them than our team for us. Gilberto Mora, man. Gilberto Mora. Remember that name. This kid. Incredible. That was really fun to watch. That was my first point.
00:09:26
Speaker
My second point. I have three, I guess. Obed. It's so fun to watch him out there. i thought you could tell that he was like, I'm trying not to get hurt. I'm going to just which like, I fully in favor of that. Keep it chill.
00:09:41
Speaker
Like I'm sure that he was, he wanted to win and play well, but they were like, Oh, this is a showcase of ah the commentating was just like, Oh, this is a showcase of Obed Vargas. Like this is a chance for him to grow his stock brother. No one's taking any stock from the all-star game respectfully. Like,
00:09:59
Speaker
I think the the only person whose stock went up was i Show Speed. like I feel like every MLS fan now is like... But he's already like the guy anyway. like He's already the man. so He got he got like a messy tier reception.
00:10:14
Speaker
like Yeah, dude. like He's be's like as famous as messy in some places. It's actually crazy. so That was tight. Shout out to Speed. Speed, if you ever want to come on the show, I know that you have 42 million subscribers. Probably not interested, but...
00:10:28
Speaker
We could do the sui together or whatever. ah My third take... this one This one's not going to be very surprising to you, Ari, but... How cowardly, how cowardly is Leo Messi?
Messi's All-Star Game Absence
00:10:45
Speaker
How cowardly is Leo Messi? Because Don Garber, when asked about this, he glazed up he glazed up his favorite. let's Let's set the context. Messi on the team and supposed to play. And then...
00:11:00
Speaker
That was weird. Like, the day of the game, they're like, by the way, he's not playing. He never showed up. They were like, yeah, he just never showed up. Now he's not going to play. And then Garber got asked about it at his all-star press conference. His one press conference he does a year. And he was like, well, Leo Messi, he plays... He's playing a lot of minutes. They got to think about load management, which, like...
00:11:22
Speaker
First of all, you know, Obed Vargas has to think about load management too. He played, okay, yeah, that's I have that point. have that point right here. But like Leo Messi, okay, like I get it. He's on his own status. He can kind of do what he wants. But then just why like,
00:11:35
Speaker
why have it be perceived that he was going to play to begin with when to me, it's like, he was okay. It seems like he was never go to play. So like, why even why bill it like that? And then have people think that he's going to play and then set them up for the disappointment of him, not even being there.
00:11:53
Speaker
It's, it's just silly, man. You can't, you can't run him out for 10 minutes. You can't run him out for 10 minutes. You can't, you can't they did last year. That's what I'm saying. Like, it's it's bullshit. They're like, oh, he's played nine games in 30 days. Obed's played seven in 30.
00:12:09
Speaker
Obed's played seven. He also played in the ah ah the Club World Cup. Messi is twice Obed's age, literally. I agree, but I'm just saying, if we're gonna if we're going to be fair and even here, you also have players that have played basically the maximum number of minutes across the board. Like, I think Hany Mukhtar has played, like,
00:12:31
Speaker
2,100 minutes out of the 2,200 minutes physically possible to play in the league season. Like, it's not like there aren't other players that are that aren't fatigued. I just think like he clearly didn't give a shit.
00:12:44
Speaker
And that's fine. If you don't want to play your your band for a match, like you get him one match suspension. And if you think they're going to suspend him, I'd be pretty surprised. No, I don't think they're going to, but I think they should. this And it's just, I don't know, this just carries over our previous conversation that we were having about how the league is doing the slippery slope, Ari.
00:13:06
Speaker
You let one little thing slide. You let a mouse have a cookie. And guess what? He wants another one. And he wants another one. And he wants another one. And you just keep giving it to him because you got to.
00:13:17
Speaker
You set the precedent. And I just think if you're a rule, if you' if you're a league that cares about rules, you got to suspend it. You have to. You have to suspend him for a game. You have to do it because it doesn't matter anyone else's situation in the league in the past, in the present.
00:13:31
Speaker
If you skip the All-Star game, you are getting suspended for a match. So they better follow through and they better suspend him. And that's not me being salty that my wonder kid had to play in this godforsaken game and potentially get injured.
00:13:44
Speaker
It's that just, you know, let's let's let's let's have some fair rules here, all right? You're already letting them sign Rodrigo DePaul, Let's have some fairness here. i think, I don't think that's ridiculous to say. I don't think that's ridiculous to ask.
00:13:59
Speaker
I think that in a world of MLS soccer where messy can basically get away with whatever he wants, Come on. Come on. One game, one game suspension.
00:14:11
Speaker
That's a break. You said he needs a break. You said he needs a break, Ari. Ari, he's played nine games in 30 days. Don Garber said it himself. He needs a break. Sometimes you got to save players from themselves, right? This is talk about with coaching.
00:14:22
Speaker
Clearly the head coach there doesn't know what he's doing. So the league should suspend Leo Messi to save himself. That's my final take, I think. Yeah, I mean, I see what you're saying. They're not going to do it.
00:14:33
Speaker
Cowardly. Cowardly. kind Messy, messy ah he you know he plays by his own rules. He's both he's the general manager of Inter-Miami and the scouting director. So he's got a lot on his plate.
00:14:45
Speaker
ah But, you know, I mean, for me, it's like if 38-year-old Leo Messi in the midst of a 50-plus game season where he's playing a ton of minutes doesn't want to do All-Star, that's fine. But then, like, just say that from the beginning. Be like, yo, I like i know that I'm face to the league and you guys really want me there, but i physically I'm 38. I can't do it.
00:15:08
Speaker
I'm not going to do it. So you're going to to run this one without me. They did a whole thing about how he was – like going to be, I bet there was people that like bought tickets thinking there were dude, there were messengers in a the stadium. It's bullshit. I'm sorry. This is bullshit because any other league in the world, any other league in the world, Ari, I'm telling you right now, well, they don't have an all-star game. They don't have all-star games anywhere else in the world.
00:15:33
Speaker
Well, in other sports is what I'm talking about. Oh, okay. Yeah. Like other American sports, you got to play. Yeah, you can't just not do it. like like you the Like the Pro Bowl, you think that those players... You don't think those players are at a greater risk of injury than Leo Messi playing 10 minutes at fucking Q2 Stadium against a bunch of Liga Mequis All-Stars who are... I'm sorry, I watched that match.
00:15:52
Speaker
Those guys were kind of phoning it in till the end. Till the last 30 minutes, they were kind of phoning it in. Like, they were like, yeah, this is tight, cool, I'm not trying to get injured. Everyone there is on the same mindset. If Messi comes out on the pitch for 10 minutes, you think they're going to start kicking his ankles?
00:16:06
Speaker
You think that he's going to just like turn into dust? Like it's it's a silly premise. He should be suspended. He has to be suspended. It's it's it's malpractice if they don't suspend him. Well, and i'm i'm I'm convicted on this. Sorry, I'm convicted on this. I fear that you're going to ah set yourself up for disappointment because I don't think there's any way. I mean, the fan case fact that Don Garber was gone. Garber himself was saying like attributing it to load management tells me that they've already decided that he's off the hook. So cowardly. It is what it is.
00:16:39
Speaker
right. Everyone should do the same thing next year, by the way. I think no one should play in it then. Everyone just site load management. and Well, they want to add more games and shit. So I'm just saying, I'm just saying, listen, I'm just saying, and you know what?
00:16:54
Speaker
I wouldn't even blame them. I wouldn't blame them. We are officially on Messi's suspension watch, but ah not really because I think there's less than 1% chance that that would ever actually happen.
00:17:08
Speaker
Especially the negotiation year. They're negotiating his contract right now. You think they're going want to try and like piss him off? Absolutely not. That dude has the league by the balls right now. He does. All right, Noah, we got to talk some ah some Pedro de la Vega because you and I have not recorded one of these since Seattle's win over the the quakes.
De la Vega's Standout Performance
00:17:30
Speaker
And, you know, I wanted to start by by saying that i I think you might just have the magic touch because...
00:17:37
Speaker
Before the start of this season and dating back to last season, you espoused a lot of rhetoric regarding a one Danny Musavsky, who ah did not have a very productive year last year. He had one goal.
00:17:50
Speaker
He was injured in and out of the lineup. But, you know, Moose never really got going last year. we were we were talking about our concerns about the number nine depth because we felt like. We didn't see anything last year that indicated we could necessarily rely on Moose should Jordan Morris get injured or have to rotate out or whatever. And then ah Moose has since become the statistically most efficient and productive backup number nine in all of major league soccer. And he has eight goals this year.
00:18:19
Speaker
So I think you can take some, ah take some credit for that, for doubting him. And then in recent weeks on this show, to be fair, it's, It's you and I both, a lot of our callers, ah a undeniable subplot of this season so far has been Pedro de la Vegas.
00:18:37
Speaker
ah that He hasn't gotten going the DP type production that we were hoping to see from him this season with a clean but bill of health and just a full year clean slate in front of him that hadn't been there yet.
00:18:51
Speaker
He didn't play in the PSG game. He seemed to be in this kind of bit part role player backup situation. Second half cameo type role wasn't starting games.
00:19:02
Speaker
And there was a lot of discourse, so discussion and concern about that on on our show and elsewhere. His positioning, whether he should be playing on the left or ah Schmetzer was right to continue running him on the right was also another topic.
00:19:17
Speaker
And then this ah this San Jose Earthquakes game happened, which was by far Pedro De La Vega's best game in Major League Soccer and with the Seattle Sounders.
00:19:29
Speaker
he He took over the game like you would expect of a $7 million dollar designated play. It was the type of performance that you that we've been waiting for and wanting to see. from him. ah He factors into all three goals. He starts the sequence that leads to the first goal.
00:19:44
Speaker
He gets a very nice assist to Moose on the second goal. And then he scored the game winner, which was, I think, the best goal that a Seattle Sounders player has scored all season and just all around starting on the left for the first time.
00:20:02
Speaker
He finally looked like a DP. Now it is only one game. He has to sustain it. I will ah ah we'll give that caveat. But for me, just seeing that he had a full game performance like that in his bag, that was encouraging.
00:20:18
Speaker
And also, it's the type of performance that should ostensibly build confidence and give him a foundation for something that he can build on. And I think you're in sort of with this winger rotation right now. You're in a hot hand situation.
00:20:32
Speaker
Paul Rothrock was the hot hand Pedro de la Vega made a case that his hand is now hot so you got to make a uh a decision on that but I guess uh as the uh as one of the purveyors of the uh of the de la Vega struggles agenda what did you think of uh seeing him play like that what were your thoughts on the on the on the match Listen, everyone knows me. I'm the first to to be to to to give the flowers to the players who I criticize because I think that as as a commentator, as a human being, that's the way that it should be, right? Like if you prove someone wrong in a specific moment, you should you should own that. And ah this has this was De La Vega's best game by far.
00:21:21
Speaker
I will say his most complete game, yeah I think, ah by far in Major League Soccer in a regular season match. That's awesome. I mean, he looked great. He looked incredible.
00:21:32
Speaker
I thought that the the choice to play him out wide was great in that position and on the other side of the field that he normally plays at. I think that was a great risk to take against a team that is ostensibly bad.
00:21:46
Speaker
um And, you know, I think it paid off. And I think that that's awesome. And I'm really glad that he's able to perform like this. That said, I feel like I'm having a little deja vu, Ari.
00:21:57
Speaker
I feel like I'm having a little bit of deja vu because we talked about this early in the season when he looked like absolutely a god to your player against ah in Champions Cup.
00:22:11
Speaker
Okay. And the season before and all of this. We see these amazing bursts of creativity and craftiness and just talent, right?
00:22:23
Speaker
This happens all the time. We've talked about this. You see it. You see the light. You see the flicker. You see all of these kinds of things, but you don't see the sustained like performance, regardless of how much he's playing or where he's playing or whatever it is. You don't see it, okay?
00:22:39
Speaker
And so for me... I, my agenda has always been and always will be. Let's wait and see. Let's wait and see. Let's not put the cart before the horse, because I think a lot of people are looking at this game and saying, this is it.
00:22:54
Speaker
We finally found it. We finally figured it out. I've been saying this forever. blah, blah, blah, blah. blah Noah, you're dumb. You're stupid. You don't know ball might be true. Might be true.
00:23:04
Speaker
Happy to admit it if I'm wrong. But, dog, it was San Jose. They've given up 42 goals. Oh, so it where it so it didn't count. It didn't count. no no I'm not saying it's – I preface this with saying this was his best game, most complete game.
00:23:18
Speaker
It was a great game. But I'm saying let's let the numbers play out. Let's see what he does in this Atlanta match. If he starts in this Atlanta match, let's see another another bad team. But that doesn't matter. If he hasn't a performance equally as good on that side, that's that's another that's another feather in his cap.
00:23:36
Speaker
That's a lot more undeniable to go two games in a row playing incredibly well in that position. All I'm saying is I think that there's a lot of people, and this has been my agenda, is like, let's settle it down.
00:23:47
Speaker
Let's settle down the hype train. I'm not ready to let this thing rock it off, dude. This is not like... I can't. I can't. Because all of the things that he has shown us in the past is that he's really, really, really, really good in one game.
00:24:04
Speaker
And then really, really, really, really average the rest of the time. And so I want to see it on a sustained level, on a sustained basis, before I'm willing to say, this is a breakout game.
00:24:16
Speaker
This is his moment. This is the guy you have to start. This is your $7 million dollars player. This was worth the signing. This is exactly what we've been trying to see. It gives me hope. It gives me hope.
00:24:27
Speaker
But I think that a lot of people are jumping to conclusions here, Ari. I really do. Like, I think it's time to just pump the brakes a little bit. Let's wait and see over the next few weeks. Undoubtedly, he'll play League's Cup at least a little bit because he hasn't gotten that many minutes. I would assume that that's his his job to lose for League's Cup.
00:24:45
Speaker
Let's see him through that run. that's That is some intense competition. He's going to be able to prove himself in that moment. And I think after that moment, we can tell, can say definitively or not was this Pedro de la Vegas breakout game.
00:24:58
Speaker
And that's where I stand right now. It's not that I don't like the player. It's not that I don't rate the player. I still, I mean, a couple of weeks ago, i was like, you got to sell him. I still think if an offer comes through and it's, it's a big bag, I don't think that's a bad, bad option to, to pull, but I think a lot of people are overreacting to this this result.
00:25:17
Speaker
it's um It was an amazing game. It was an amazing performance. But you got to also look at it in context and say, that San Jose back line, I literally couldn't tell you who any of those people were.
00:25:29
Speaker
I couldn't tell you who any of those guys were. So let's see him do it consistently and and a little bit more. and And then I'm on the train. And then I'm on the train, Ari. and that's And that's where I'm at.
00:25:41
Speaker
I think it is it's it is fine and valid to note all the caveats. It was just one game, and he does have to sustain it for it to actually fundamentally change his stock.
De la Vega's Potential Breakthrough
00:25:57
Speaker
However, would ah what I would say is that as far as...
00:26:05
Speaker
the pattern, like a pattern you're referencing of like seeing flashes or glimmers in fits and starts and then him not being able to sustain it. This was, this was different than individual flashes in,
00:26:19
Speaker
individual games that we've seen before like yes he had ah he had some really good moments in conca cap champions cup that got us talking about the break uh the breakout potential breakout before the start of the league season and he has never single-handedly taken over and won a game like pretty much uh put the team on his back like that i mean i didn't that was a that was I mean, how how could you not? he ah He factored into all three goals and looked dangerous the entire game. I don't i don't know if they'd take that result without him. The game winner he scores is not a goal that any other player really on the team has in his bag. so No, i know I don't think so either, but I do think the team played well as a whole.
00:27:04
Speaker
ah lot In large part because of him in attack. like that's I don't think there's a way to look at it where he doesn't get...
00:27:11
Speaker
credit for that. Like he, he made a great play to create the opportunity that led to the first goal. He alley-oops to Tammuz for the assist on the, on the second goal.
00:27:24
Speaker
And then he scores a world-class game winner. That's a $7 million dollars DP performance from front to back, which we haven't seen from him. So that's why I think, I don't, I don't know if, ah I don't know if I've seen like the,
00:27:36
Speaker
uh, categorical conclusion jumping that you're talking about. But I think the reason why the excitement level might be, don't know. Kickoff is pretty hot. In the fat in the past. Uh, I mean, because, uh, I think you're trying to downplay it because you've had like agenda the other way. Listen,
00:27:51
Speaker
But the reality the reality is that game was that reality is that game was a different tier of performance than we've seen from him at any point in Seattle. And that's why it's getting talked about differently than maybe the flashes and glimmers that we've seen before. He he he took over the game.
00:28:07
Speaker
I think you're being ah disingenuous to not acknowledge the degree to which he took over the game i I literally led the whole thing with that. And if if we don't remember, I have i have owned my my moose takes on on that, and I owned them pretty immediately. And I'm not a type of person who wants this.
00:28:24
Speaker
I'm not the type of person who watches a game being like, I hope this player does bad. Like, this is not where I'm coming from. There is no ill will coming from me. I want Pedro de la Vega to be $7 million. dollars i want to be a $20 million dollars player, and I want him to to be like the greatest sounder that ever existed.
00:28:38
Speaker
I want that for every player on this team. And also, at the same time, i can say, you know... I'm a little hesitant to, to proclaim him as the savior again, ah you know, just off of one performance.
00:28:54
Speaker
And, and I got to say, like, I really do think that the team played well in this game. I thought that their press was amazing. I thought that there was, there was other opportunities and we'll get to ah who we picked for man of the match, but I thought there were other performances that were just as good that were kind of went unnoticed.
00:29:08
Speaker
And i think, I think that, I think that this team has been playing really well together. And another note is like, Yeah, this should look like his best performance. He's finally fully fit.
00:29:18
Speaker
He's finally had time to learn the system and integrate with the team and accept the Brian Schmetzer mentality of pressing and pressing and pressing and running and defending and winning balls and doing all of that kind of stuff.
00:29:29
Speaker
Like... He's integrated. This should have been his best performance. There should have been more performances before this that were better. But, you know, we can't look backwards. We can only look forwards. And so what I'm saying is this was his best performance. Absolutely. But it's not this.
00:29:44
Speaker
I guess for me, I'm like, Okay, that's a good baseline. let's let's let's let's see what we got Let's see what we got next. Because it's not that I'm a hater. It's not that I'm a hater. It's just that, like, if this was any other DP, we would also be talking about it in the same light.
00:30:01
Speaker
Like... Albert Rusnak has been putting up insane numbers and we talk about it all the time about how amazing of a DP he is. and This is not the same thing. This is not the same thing where people look at him and are like, oh my God, we could do so much better. The brigade.
00:30:16
Speaker
I'm not brigading. I'm not brigading Pedro de la Vega. I'm just being honest. it I'm just being honest about like what I see and my hesitation to really just dive in head first on on this player. He's unproven. He's unproven.
00:30:32
Speaker
He is. I think there's a little,
00:30:36
Speaker
like someone told me Steph Curry you can't shoot, like going on here. Cause I think all the caveats you're talking about have been widely acknowledged that I've seen. I don't think anyone, I've seen no one like proclaiming him ah king of major league soccer based off.
00:30:51
Speaker
I mean, i'm not saying that. i think people are, when you have a player like this, who has struggled to live up to their billing and their price tag, and you see them finally look like the player that you were expecting, like you said, it's ah it's ah it's a good baseline. And like, of course of course, if he doesn't sustain it going forward and that that performance against San Jose turns out to be a one-off, then yeah, we'll have to say, all right, like he looked incredible in that game, but then he didn't ah then he didn't really make good on it like for the rest of the season.
00:31:23
Speaker
And if that's if that's what happens, then we'll take it as it comes. But as I guess for me, it's like for him to get to where we all want him to go. You need some sort of starting point. I think this could this exciting thing is this could be the starting point.
00:31:38
Speaker
And then i other I think the other thing that is ah gives a sort of different feel to it is the position change. Like that he finally got run at a position where people had been theorizing for weeks that he might be able to get unlocked if you just put him at at a position where he's theoretically more comfortable and had more success in his career.
00:31:56
Speaker
And then the first game you do it, he looks like a demigod. that gives ah That gives some excitement that potentially if you keep giving him run there, he can sustain it and he can build on it. So... Uh, we're going to see, but you know, like I said, for him, for him to sustain it and get to where we want him to go, there would need to be like a baseline starting performance like this for him to build on.
00:32:18
Speaker
He has that now it's, uh, now it's time to see if he can build on it. Will he do that? I don't know, but I'm certainly more, uh, excited about the possibility than I was previously when we really we really had not seen him have a game like that. so yeah i'm i i I feel the same way. i like I agree with everything that you just said right there. i'm not maybe Maybe I'm coming off a little bit more ah hot than i than I intend to. like It's not that...
00:32:50
Speaker
Like I said, like, yes, this is a baseline performance. This is awesome. This is great. Like, I am here for it. I'm just, I'm just trying to like, be consistent in my messaging as to what I've been saying, which is,
00:33:02
Speaker
I'm going wait and see. I'm not going to proclaim anything off one game. That's all that is my. And I will say that is my whole take. Your your point is taken as far as, you know, we we did. I did a show, I think, before the start of this or like during CONCAP Champions Cup time.
00:33:18
Speaker
That was like Pedro de la Vega is a footballing demigod because of that goal that he scored in Antigua. He looked awesome. He looked amazing in that game. He did, but not as good as this game, in my opinion. I remember that game. That game, he ah he scored a really awesome goal from outside the box, which, you know, I was thinking about this after watching him score that goal, which, as I said, world-class goal, I think best goal of the Sounders season so far.
00:33:45
Speaker
But ah what are the possibilities if he started shooting from inside the box? That could even unlock, like, a different... Maybe a whole new level. Because it's like, i don't know I don't know if I've seen him score a goal. He has like six goals for Seattle All-Comp's now.
00:34:02
Speaker
I don't know if... Oh, I guess the Nashville one. See, the Nashville one. Remember that goal? That was from inside the box. Hopefully, he starts doing stuff like that. And we start seeing... Because like what we've been saying on the show for the last few weeks is that...
00:34:19
Speaker
we just need You need to start seeing the production on the stat sheet first and foremost. Correct. ah Him getting two gold contributions in this game. and i and what The other thing I think is that ah it's like Any theoretical world where he does make good on his potential and start putting in performances like that, it doesn't even have to be like that. Like even 70 to 80% of that week week out. That is an undeniable ceiling razor for this team ah with, with, ah with respect to all ah what Paul Rothrock has been doing. Like Paul Rothrock was the hot hand. Like I said,
00:35:01
Speaker
Leading up to this game and then De La Vega gets the start, I think, you know, because of rotation as much as anything. But I think the the top level that you could get out of De La Vega, as we saw in this game, it's not only different than what Paul Rothrock can offer. It's I think it's pretty much different than anyone on the team can offer besides maybe Ryan Kent, who we haven't really seen be effective in the last season.
00:35:27
Speaker
three four weeks or so team full of wingers it's a problem ari team full of wingers look if if this winger becomes the type of player that we saw in that quakes game which he has to uh he has to do consistently moving forward but if that happens that i think that does wonders for this team's potential to really make a run at silverware this year whether it's leagues cup even there's like outside dark horse chance at the shield probably not because of the team the teams in the east have a lot of separation on and they play but like or the uh the top seed in the west though is low-key kind of in play so as if we're talking about like their actual chances at doing stuff like uh getting the top seed in the west making a run in leagues cup making a run in the playoffs all that stuff de la vega hitting and coming good would be a massive boost to that so uh
00:36:20
Speaker
he they They got this Atlanta ah ah atlanta game on Saturday. Like you said, not a good team. Not a good team, famously. But also, ah not necessarily an easy road trip for a West Coast team ever, no matter the quality of their team.
00:36:37
Speaker
yeah So ah i think I think that situation, like starting-wise right now, it's a hot hand situation where you now kind of have two... hot hands.
00:36:49
Speaker
ah But I think I think you have to run De La Vega on the line. agree. And this I agree to see if he can to see if he can build on it both because of his confidence and like seeing and the fact that I think it's pretty clear that he is most effective as a starter and like getting to find the game from the beginning and then make his impact.
00:37:12
Speaker
and That is an interesting wrinkle in his game. i i wonder like why that is so hard for him. I know that some players it's just momentum and it's just it's it's different, but that that is an interesting wrinkle that he's very like non...
00:37:29
Speaker
he's very he's very He's very structured in starting. like he He looks a lot better when he starts. i think always he's always. I think it's a situation where, for whatever reason, he is ah much more effective as a starter.
00:37:40
Speaker
And Rothrock has been doing great as a starter, but his his skill set is phenomenal for a super sub. like bringing on in the second half against tired legs, that ball of energy, ah being ah being a pest, running at a defenders who hopefully have tired legs by that point. Like, I love Rothrock in that role, even if he has earned his status. He's a utility tool, man. He's a utility tool. He can play whatever and whenever he wants. I think that's just his game. Exactly. so He's got he's got a much more...
00:38:10
Speaker
I think also, too, like with Major League Soccer, it opens up so much in the second half like because of like tired legs, defensiveness, you know just like just the way that it plays. like Pedro, he can play group really well in those second halves, but he also has to like have that baseline of...
00:38:28
Speaker
of comfort and confidence in finding his positioning. And he was, I mean, I listened to kickoff. If you, if you haven't listened to kickoff, you guys should, because Nico gives a great breakdown of his positioning and why it was a lot more effective in this match as compared to any of the matches he's played before.
00:38:44
Speaker
So, and that's another thing that concerns me about him, but I'm not even going to get into it because I really do like, I want him to do well. I want him to do well. And I don't want people to think that I'm just sitting here being a hater. ah because that sucks. I'm not a hater. I love this club, and I love Pedro de la Vega. I legitimately, i hate his new haircut. Pedro, brother.
00:39:02
Speaker
look But it worked. He did it. Yeah, work hit chain it worked. But it worked. Changed the vibes, and then he he played like a god against the quick. Welcome back, Raul Ruiz Diaz.
00:39:14
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. Did you want to do ah man Man of the Match? Yeah, mean, I think I know who yours is. I mean, i' I'll go different just for the novelty of it. Like, I mean, I think it's obvious it's pretty clear that De La Vega was the ah Man of the Match. Just do it. Do De La Vega.
00:39:32
Speaker
and Well, okay. I mean, I'll go De La Vega, but then with a ah honorable mention to Moose coming on after, uh, after Jordan Morris comes out, that's not an easy thing to do. You're not expecting to go in the game in the 16th minute or whatever it was.
00:39:46
Speaker
And then, uh, I mean, it was just big time for Moose. They had just conceded the opener, and they get the equalizer right away, which, fantastic.
Backup Striker Moose's Contributions
00:39:57
Speaker
That's excellent response.
00:39:58
Speaker
You're going to concede first in these games sometimes. You've got to punch back. That's exactly what they did. ah And then ah he gets the go-ahead goal as well. Great execution and transition from he and Pedro de la Vega.
00:40:13
Speaker
And Moose is up to... Eight goals to assist in league play. ah i mean... he's turned one you You want to talk about ah about value, like roster value?
00:40:28
Speaker
Moose is providing... as much of that, like, as anyone in the, anyone in the league right now, in terms of goal production compared to like what their role is on the team. I know Moose's salary is like decently high, but it's pretty high, but it's not like DP, like,
00:40:47
Speaker
crazy uh crazy levels he's a he's a backup nine on the books and he has been carrying the goal scoring load for this team pretty much all season think his salary is probably justified at this point like not even that's what i'm saying like more more than justified so yeah shout out shout out to moose who did uh who did you have I mean, i was told I was told that Craig couldn't sign back of nines.
00:41:10
Speaker
I was told by the brigade that, you know... talk about this at some point, but ah the why the Craig Wybes record is going to have to be analyzed. We're going to have to check in on Craig's... We're going to check in and yeah see if the narratives match up with the with the production, because...
00:41:27
Speaker
Especially with De La Vega looking better. Let's pump the brakes. Let's pump the brakes. They're going to come for you on that one if it doesn't come good. ah My man of the match, this is going to be a surprising one to some.
00:41:41
Speaker
Reid Baker Whiting. If you go back and and you watch this match, for one, who is the the real like star of this game? Pedro De La Vega.
00:41:53
Speaker
If you go back and watch this match, his reads play with De La Vega yeah supported De La Vega so much. Reed was directing him the whole time. I mean, if you go watch, he he's, he's shouting directions at everyone, but that's kind of the player he is, but you know, he's directing De La Vega. He's backing up De La Vega. He's watching De La Vega's runs and he's moving off of him in the way, in just a way that like,
00:42:20
Speaker
let's be real knew who never could do. And unless it's ah with Ryan Kent against St. Louis city SC. Yeah, apparently. Yeah. Then, then, then it's God's here. But um I think for one, i think Reed really helped unlock De La Vega on that side and feel comfortable and confident because of both of their, din they're they're they're both dynamic and technical and really good at playing in space together.
00:42:44
Speaker
It looked great. really good. But I had some moments that I took notes on and wrote down for why I really thought that he was my man in the match. I mean, it was just, it was, I kept, I kept looking to see when he would make a mistake. And I really don't think that he made a single mistake in this match, maybe one.
00:43:00
Speaker
um But in the 10th minute, he, ah he had great vision to call out a line breaking pass for John Bell. So John, he passes the ball to John Bell and then points straight to the player that he wants John Bell to pass it to. And John Bell makes this Jackson Reagan-esque line-breaking pass that leads to this attacking spell of possession.
00:43:20
Speaker
And, you know, the Sounders almost ah score. 10th minute, 10th minute. This kid's played 10 minutes and he's already like, hey, John Bell, let me tell you what pass to make. That's confidence.
00:43:31
Speaker
That's poise. That's man-to-match quality right there. Then ah on in the 16th minute, Reid steps to a goalkeeper clearance and makes a pass to De La Vega. De La Vega doesn't get to this pass.
00:43:44
Speaker
He doesn't make it to this pass. he's He's kind of flat-footed ah when Reid makes this, and so he doesn't end up getting there. But if he would have gotten there, he would have been out alone on a counterattack, and that would have been...
00:43:55
Speaker
that would have been probably another assist or goal for Pedro de la Vega. He could have probably had four on that one. And then in the 17th, and then on the second goal, that second goal, that second goal doesn't happen without Reed Baker Whiting. Reed Baker Whiting is pressing the defender and gets a foot to the ball.
00:44:13
Speaker
John Bell collects that ball and plays a forward pass. And then the sequence starts on the counter-attack. Rebaker Whiting's intervention is the reason that that second goal happens hands down and his vision to get it back out to John Bell quickly and John Bell to send it forward and make that play. I mean, that's, that's what you want to see folks. That's what you want to see out of a, a dynamic wingback,
00:44:37
Speaker
that is attacking-minded and defensively solid. And so, RBW, you are my man of the match. I thought you had an amazing game. I like it.
00:44:47
Speaker
It's a good shout because think... i think Perhaps part of the reason De La Vega looks so much better is because of the combination that they had on the left side.
00:45:02
Speaker
I think RBW, the kind of story on him this year has been, ah there's been like defensive miscues as far as positioning and like one v one mishaps or like penalties conceded and stuff.
00:45:16
Speaker
I don't think there was any of that. in this game and just, you know, RBW remember he was taking heat in the club world cup because he got beat on a couple plays against Atletico Madrid type stuff.
00:45:30
Speaker
And people are like, why is this kid on the field or whatever? reason The reason brigade against him there, there is like a mini offshoot brigade. That's like crash the, I call it the RBW crash out brigade, whatever.
00:45:42
Speaker
Like, If you don't understand like what the what the allure is what the hype is, why he's been ah drawn attention of scouts in Europe and why internally Seattle still thinks that he has as much upside as any of their homegrowns coming up.
00:45:59
Speaker
It's because of what he can do in attack and combining with like ah the players that he's playing with on the. left side uh we saw it in the uh the game before the quakes game uh the i think it was the rapids game or where when he put that ball over the top for ferreira that make a run stuff like that that uh he had a shot on target in that game too i believe he had a shot on target in this in this race game yeah yeah that uh that was that was a really good shot so he's got that kind of stuff in his bag as well uh is he a
00:46:32
Speaker
finish polished product defensively. No, but the, the point is if he does take a step in that regard and, and get his, uh, defensive positioning and one V one defending to a place where it's even like league average, the, the stuff he can do in attack,
00:46:50
Speaker
adds like a way more dynamic element uh than you've had from that spot really dating back you're like joven jones brad smith era yeah so that is the why where the rbw stock comes from it's not like out of nowhere it's not hard to believe you can see it if you uh if you know if you watch a game like i don't so uh i'm glad i'm glad you brought that up actually good good point.
00:47:17
Speaker
No, I just thought he played. Yeah, it was a great game. It was a great And that's also, like, you know, it's not going to get the attention that De La Vega, because De La Vega is the DP, but that's another, to me, that's like another potential ceiling raiser. Like,
00:47:33
Speaker
yeah Imagine like a world where RBW becomes like a legitimate, reliable, two-way, modern fullback that is ah playing well enough defensively where he's not making it like errors consistently that hurt the team, but then also adding...
00:47:54
Speaker
we we can see what he can do in attack. I think even the detractors would acknowledge that he's like clearly got skills in attack. So that's that is that's another exciting thing to come off of this game. I want to see more of ah of of that combination on the left side.
00:48:12
Speaker
yeah And we're going to talk about that in our agenda check, ah which we're going to get to right now. But should we take an ad break first? I think we should take an ad break, Ari. Let's take an ad break.
00:48:24
Speaker
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Speaker
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00:50:46
Speaker
All right, let's get into our ah our agenda check. But before we do that, we do have a quick but exciting news item to to relay, which is that JP...
JP's Unexpected Return from Injury
00:50:59
Speaker
is going to be back. Yeah, he hath risen. He was initially announced as out for the season with a ah torn ACL. And usually when you hear that, that's that's it.
00:51:11
Speaker
That's it for the season. And for a player where JP's at in his career, it felt like it might be it for his Sounders career and his ah playing career seemed to be up in the air.
00:51:24
Speaker
Apparently what happened, Noah, the surgeons went in there and they were like, this is not... torn. this is This is like some meniscus damage that we just need to clean up a little bit and then he he can rehab it and play in like a few weeks.
00:51:38
Speaker
And so as it stands today, JP is ah going to be back this season. I don't know if I've ever seen like a torn ACL get announced and then like retroactively be found and not be torn and the player actually will come back in a matter of a few weeks. i imagine that we're talking about...
00:51:59
Speaker
three, four, maybe more weeks before he can come back. But ah either way, ah that's fantastic news. Happy to be able to relay that. ah They'll have to make do without him in the short term, which is, you know, there's issues with the double pivot right now, Christian and Obed. getting run into the ground, which the JP injury only accentuated that because of the skill sets of the other players at that position and all that. But ah first and foremost, just happy for... it was it was tough to like think about him going out like that.
00:52:30
Speaker
So now that it looks like he at least will get to put on the kit again, get back out there, and not have to end on an injury.
00:52:42
Speaker
yeah exactly. then also, like... i think I think thinking that they had lost him for the season underscored that he's still a necessary component of this team.
00:52:53
Speaker
Whatever you might think of his form this year, i just think that there's no one on this roster that offers a Christian-type profile and skill set that you can plug in there and feel good about in a double pivot besides either Danny Leba or Obed Vargas. other than JP. JP is, is that guy it was going, it made, it made the whole situation with Christian and Obed's minute minutes and workload even tougher with him not being available.
00:53:21
Speaker
So I'm, I'm very happy that he's ostensibly coming back this year. And also just, just happy for him that he, he doesn't have, he, that it looks like now he's not going out on a torn ACL. So any ah quick thoughts on the, the JP resurrection?
00:53:40
Speaker
Fully agree. And whoever did that um MRI, brother, you might be fired. You might be fired. i don't know. i don't know what to tell you there. But, ah you know, maybe it was a situation where they were like, it it looks torn, but we can't tell. But they've got an hour. I'm not a little Ari, Ari, Ari, Ari.
00:53:55
Speaker
Famously, I am not a doctor. And I did not go to school for it. I talk about soccer. So who am I to judge? Who am I to judge? And God said on the third day, let there be an intact ACL. Okay. And that's just, that's just the mandate of heaven. Okay. And that's, that's how we're going to have to think about it. I think.
00:54:15
Speaker
JP is back. He's back. A few weeks. All right. Let's hit this agenda check. We got four written down here. We can add more if they pop up as we go. ah First one, we don't need to spend a lot of time on. We already talked about it quite a bit. But ah the Gala Vegas stock check or the savior agenda, whatever you want to call it, the one we've been tracking dating back to last season.
00:54:38
Speaker
ah Again, all the caveats you mentioned earlier, notwithstanding, ah performance like that does heat it up. like Whatever level you think it should or is heated up to, the stove is on. The stove is on. like ah It wasn't just the stat sheet production for me, which I would have taken that regardless of ah how he did it. But dude, that i mean that goal was freaking sick. like That was... ah Again, at some point, it would be I want to see him score for him from inside the box.
00:55:13
Speaker
But I mean, like hes he's easily the best like distance shooter on the team. like So it was it was cool to see him do all that stuff. and Hopefully on Saturday, we see him get more run and and and do it again. That's what I would like to see.
00:55:30
Speaker
i'm I'm on that train. i yeah Undoubtedly, his stock is up. Like, there's there's no there's no... And I even, you know, I was giving you a hard time. i i You were getting on me. You were like, I'm going to spend my boy.
00:55:42
Speaker
Well, but... ah i Like I've been ah after the Club World Cup, I was doing stock up, stock, stock down after he didn't play against PSG. I think it was undeniable that it was down. And we we we both have talked a lot on this show about how the production from that. ride You were almost on was you were almost on the cell train for a minute there. You were you were getting close.
00:56:03
Speaker
You were like thinking about it Yeah, i think ah I think what you said is like about how we need to see how it pans out the rest of the season. That's ultimately what it what it comes down to. It's pretty black and white at the end of the day.
00:56:16
Speaker
If he builds off this performance that we saw against San Jose and really becomes consistently that type of player on on this team, then we can...
00:56:28
Speaker
we can call it like, all right, this is a centerpiece building block type player. Or if he starts playing like that, the offers they might start getting for him because they were, they've been getting interest in offers on him when he wasn't even playing. Well, imagine if he starts playing like that.
00:56:41
Speaker
So that's what I'm saying. That, uh, that'll be either way. If he starts playing like that, Week in week out you're going either have a situation where you have the centerpiece building block linchpin type player that you thought you were getting for seven million dollars or you're going a player where clubs in Europe are going to be like I'll give you 20 million dollars for for that guy which that's a win-win so really just ah let's just hope he builds on it next one we got here NDT agenda I think is still pretty strong he's been playing well
00:57:13
Speaker
did have the penalty conceded in the Colorado game. But this Quakes game, he had a couple other crazy saves. the The free kick, you know, I was saying, I was doubting that he got a that he he claimed he got a finger to the Espinosa free kick.
00:57:28
Speaker
I was watching that replay and I was like, I mean, that's, you can't really tell if he says it, then, uh, then that's what he's saying. I trust our boy. I trust our boy. I trust our boy, but also ah the Joseph bicycle kick that he saved right after, it wouldn't have counted, but it was still like, damn, Andy T. like That was a crazy save. Very true, bro. I love how pumped up he get he got after after that whole sequence.
00:57:51
Speaker
So Andy T's looking good. i I feel as good about him, I think, as the heir apparent as I as i ever have. I think this I'm just going to keep agreeing with Nico because, you know, listen to Lobbing Scorchers kickoff. This is my promo because today I've hit it three times. But, ah you know, he said he said that basically anything that's that's a negative in Andy's game right now or an insecurity in his game, even for lack of a better word.
00:58:20
Speaker
is something that can be fixed with a run of minutes, a run of starts, a run of confidence. So I think, dude, I think he's amazing. I think he's he's ready to take over Steph's job when Steph's ready to to retire.
00:58:33
Speaker
And that's, and I have no doubt. I'm excited. I'm excited for for for the Andy T era. I've been excited for the Andy T era. And yeah, dude, like I think i think he brings something that Steph...
00:58:46
Speaker
doesn't have in his bag. I think it's a completely different style of goalkeeping. It's a very, it's much more modern. And I, I love it. I'm so excited for it. And a big Andy T fan. So Andy T stock, undoubtedly his agenda is up. I mean, I feel like there were times last year and maybe even this year when they were down a little bit, but he looks, he looks like he's, he's, he's, he's built for the moment. You know, maybe he, he's got a few wrinkles. He's got iron out, but,
00:59:15
Speaker
I feel like he's he's he's really going to come into his own. So that's my take. also appreciate how just how they handled the ah situation in general as far as having the heir apparent and contingency plan that you bring in like three or four years early and season him, let him learn behind the veteran, and then basically have the situation where it's the presumptive starter when Steph does retire that I think that's the type of stuff that good smart organizations do like they have those plans in place and just ready to go for when you need it ah a lot of teams are in situations where when they have a ah and stalwart like that like this team that Seattle is about to play Atlanta they've been ah they've been throwing Brad Huzan in there for the last seven eight years and they have a homegrown kid that they just gave their first start but he's a total like
01:00:11
Speaker
unknown And then outside of that, they like don't know what they're going to do type stuff. So it's just it's kind of nice to have the security of being like, all right, like when when Steph retires, it's Andy T time and we can feel good about that.
01:00:24
Speaker
Yeah, well, I think I think, too, with that just quickly is that. you are very lucky to have ah goalkeeping coach like the Sounders have, because I think they're able to retain and build talent. I mean, it's, you know, Tommy Dutra is the best goalkeeping coach potentially in the world, definitely in MLS.
01:00:42
Speaker
And the fact that they they've been able to retain and create talent, Steph Cleveland, all of these people, people who've moved on outside of the Sounders organization, they're They're able to draw in a lot of talent because they know they're going to be coached and built into someone who can go and start somewhere else if they don't get their start here. And I think that's a big, big, big draw that the Sounders have. And I think that like we should acknowledge that as much as we can, as long as we can have him because Tommy Dutra is incredible.
01:01:10
Speaker
And we are very, very lucky to have him. Absolutely. This next agenda was ah was one you had. Do you want to take the floor? The never play new who again agenda.
01:01:21
Speaker
Wow. You know, this is partially my agenda. Partially added a lot of but it sees a little bit of seasoning, a little bit of viewer ah viewer takes, all of that kind of stuff thrown in, shaken up into the blender bottle.
01:01:33
Speaker
And now I've got this. it's it's it I feel like I mixed like protein powder with pre-workout. Okay. That's what this this agenda feels like to me, Ari. knew who should he ever play again we're seeing reed baker whiting play we're seeing we're seeing the the things that he can bring ah and uh one of those things being not getting sent off uh in multiple matches and not throwing a ball at a fan and crashing out i mean rbw has been known to get sent off let's not true double yellows though double yellow yeah no it's it's different it's different than like a full-on crash out where you're right about a fan
01:02:10
Speaker
He's not, he's not a suplexing a guy. He's not throwing a ball at a fan. He's not getting suspended multiple matches. He's not crashing out at practice. He's not missing his Uber.
01:02:20
Speaker
So I don't know. These are things you have to consider. Okay. These are things you have to consider. And I don't know, man. I think new who stock is down probably across the fan base.
01:02:32
Speaker
um And that's, I mean, yeah, that's like undoubted. ah Never play him again. i i mean, I see it more as a situation where... a little bit of hyperbole there. Well, like, just whatever whatever role there is left for him has to be earned back.
01:02:53
Speaker
So the way I see it, the way you handle it... And we'll see if Schmetz... does something like this or we should, we should do a bet on this. ah Like, uh, but to me, it's a situation where you, you shouldn't start him right away. he should be on the bench on Saturday at Atlanta.
01:03:12
Speaker
And, uh, if If the situation calls for it, either because you know someone has to come out of the game or you're trying to close out a lead late, then you can put him in the game. And then what he does in those minute minutes will define whether he can increase his role going forward and perhaps work his way back into the starting conversation.
01:03:36
Speaker
it Look, if it was me, I would not give him the starting job back right away with no questions asked. I think that kind of would send the wrong message. I think you really have to hammer home here. if you want...
01:03:48
Speaker
you got if you want your rollback, you have to earn it. But another thing I will say is I think you and I have both pointed out at different junctures that, uh, knew whose skillset is like lends itself well to coming off the bench and, uh, and closing out games like any, any defensive specialist like he is.
01:04:08
Speaker
If you have a lead late in the game, especially in a, in a road game, like they're about to play, uh, And ah maybe maybe RBW is tired or whatever bringing new who off the bench for the last 20 30 minutes of the game to just lock you know lock it down and and play good defense.
01:04:27
Speaker
I could see that role for him from him for him irrespective of all the crash outs and what's ah what's been going on. with him so maybe they'll find that that actually is a good role for him i don't know if he'll accept that role he's been a starter for a long time he doesn't really have a choice but to accept whatever the coaches tell him at this point so uh just yeah the way i see it is that he's just got to earn his keep back and you know if he if he goes out there he plays well he's not getting thrown out of the game and he's contributing positively to the team like we have seen him do then uh
01:05:01
Speaker
Then work him back in. I don't think it's like a banish him exile him. it doesn't need to be a banish him or exile him type of the situation. You can institute like hurdles he has to clear sir to earn it back.
01:05:13
Speaker
Yeah, i'm I'm here for it. i don't think but you can't it's Listen, this is Major League Soccer. You can't just throw away a player. that doesn't that that That doesn't exist. like He's on your roster. He's going to play at some point.
01:05:27
Speaker
And he's just been a starter, and he's he's a veteran on the team. He's going to play. But I agree with you. like you can't You can't just like give him a starting rollback. like that's not after Not after a crash out like that. You got You got to let it let it lie for a minute. Do I think Schmetz is going to do that?
01:05:44
Speaker
Hell no. i think he's goingnna give him I think he's going to start. I think he's going to start again. I think he's going to start again. so That's my take. i'm yeah i don't I don't know. He doesn't seem like he gave a shit at all about... I mean, well he did go on KJR and and kind of and kind of be like, that's unacceptable. You can't do that. But they didn't ban it. They didn't give him any more matches internally, or at least it it wasn't reported.
01:06:08
Speaker
and so I don't know, man. It's Brian. Like if, if, if he likes you, you're good, man. If he doesn't, he's going to yell at you for doing a rainbow flick in the game.
01:06:19
Speaker
He, he was, i think genuinely tilted at new who, uh, Yeah, I agree. We'll see if that manifests into a situation where Nuhu is not starting right away. But I guess we're going to find out we'll see on Saturday. All right, Noah, as we ah we look towards closing her out here, let's talk some Leagues Cup because that's coming up after this
Debating the Leagues Cup's Significance
01:06:46
Speaker
Atlanta game. And this will be the ah ah last agenda.
01:06:50
Speaker
uh, which is that I think we've both been a purveyor of this agenda. It's among our least popular takes. So let's, uh, let's talk about it. that I think, I think we can say this is like a co-sponsored agenda, right? A hundred percent. hundred percent. um proceed The agenda is, uh, leagues cup is actually, it's actually cool. It's tight actually fine.
01:07:12
Speaker
Uh, I guess let's talk about that and then we'll talk about how much should fans care about leagues cup. But, uh, look, leagues cup, a lot of fans hate it They, uh, they say it's a money grab. They say it's pointless. They say it adds extra games when it's not necessary.
01:07:30
Speaker
Uh, So, I mean, I'll say for, uh, for my part, why I think leagues cup is a fine. Well, all right. I think the first thing, regardless of what anyone thinks about it, the first thing you have to understand is that the oligarch class of MLS and the oligarch class of league MX are very tight. They're very intertwined. They're boys. for boys These guys, these guys hang out, uh, they like each other. And when, when they're hanging like to They like to make sure pro-rel never happens.
01:08:01
Speaker
What they talk about is like, oh man, like your league's doing good, our league's doing good. We should combine, we should do this, we should do that, and then we could both make money and our leagues will theoretically, if we do this, be straight. that So they're behind the scenes for years. They have been like talking about ways to have the leagues, not like partner, partner up, but like...
01:08:23
Speaker
Mix, intertwine, mingle, play more games against each other than just CCC. And it's because of ah the relationship between the leagues and the people who run the leagues. So whether you think it's pointless or not, that's just like a reality of how things have been operating the last few years.
01:08:43
Speaker
And they were always going to find a way to ah to pump up more games with the two leagues playing each other. This tournament is what they came up with. And that just kind of is what it is.
01:08:57
Speaker
But for me, like ah as far as the idea of it, like just being a money grab in and of itself. Yeah. But no, no more or less than anything else related to any of this stuff.
01:09:11
Speaker
It's all, it's all um that like, uh, ah The players calling the Club World Cup Club World cash grab, I think that's like a ah that's sort of a different issue because it's about like the bonuses they're getting paid and stuff.
01:09:25
Speaker
As far as like a tournament like Leagues Cup being a cash grab fundamentally, like it is, but I don't really see that as any more so than any other tournament. So is CONCACAF Champions Cup.
01:09:37
Speaker
So is the existence of Major League Soccer. So is the existence of professional sports as an enterprise. So that argument has just never moved me. that much I think i think although know a little bit of it is about the fact that and MLS uses this tournament as a reason to not play their clubs in the Open Cup. I think that's the majority of people's frustration, which you can...
01:09:58
Speaker
I am also frustrated by that. I love the open cup and I agree at the same time. I'll let you continue. You can enjoy a leaks cup. Like it can still be a thing that you enjoy.
01:10:09
Speaker
Here's here's why I actually like watching a lot of these games, which is that, I've said this about a champions cup as well, but like, I think any, any time our and MLS teams can get run against these Liga and Mackey's teams,
01:10:25
Speaker
It makes them better. It raises their level. Part of the reason that the Sounders won CONCACAF Champions League in 2022, and I will always say this, is because they made the League's Cup Final in 2021 and they played a bunch, they got a bunch of minutes against ah Liga MECI's competition like this and it,
01:10:43
Speaker
it it benefited them because they were playing teams of higher quality, but it's also, you're like learning how to, to play and function against Liga and Mechies teams.
01:10:54
Speaker
And that, that makes you better. It made Seattle better 2021. And and it i i Promise you. I promise you. I witnessed it happen. It helped them in CONCACAF Champions League in 2022.
01:11:07
Speaker
All that's to say, like, I like watching MLS clubs play against these Mexican teams. I always have. I think it raises the level. I think it's pretty compelling viewing. Like, I always find myself getting more invested in it than I...
01:11:22
Speaker
I think I will because just because, you know, anytime an MLS team beats a team like that, it's ah it's bragging rights. It's good for the memes. So ah I guess my point, there's nothing wrong with just like embracing that and getting into it as much as you're as much as it will allow. I think, you know, we both know it's unpopular to not just.
01:11:44
Speaker
Go immediately to a place of Leagues Cup sucks and is ah and is trash, but ah I don't feel like that. I'm looking forward to it. And I guess I'll hold the ah how much do you care. Do you have any takes on that aspect of it?
01:11:59
Speaker
Well, i just, it's a fun tournament and it's another opportunity to win a trophy. And it's, it is technically an intercontinental international trophy. ah And why not?
01:12:10
Speaker
Why not enjoy it? Why not have fun watching where your team matches up against like teams in Mexico. I don't know. I don't, I don't, I think it's fun. i think it's cool. I think that they've, and it's a completely new format this year, ah which does not bode well for the, for the Sounders, to be honest, because basically like every team has to be MLS versus Liga Mequis. So like there's,
01:12:35
Speaker
More competition for the Sounders, but also there's less likelihood that you make it out of the group stage because there has to be a certain number of Liga Mechies teams and a certain number of MLS teams. um I can understand like, oh, this tournament doesn't mean anything because it's all played in the US. Like, okay, sure, whatever. I don't. That is valid.
01:12:53
Speaker
That's valid. But I don't care, man. Like, I'm just, I am here to watch soccer. And I think it's fine. I think it's cool. Actually.
01:13:03
Speaker
i think it's cool. Actually. i think it's fun. That's my take. Um, how much should people care about winning or not winning this trophy in general?
01:13:13
Speaker
I think there's an easy answer to that. If, uh, If they're making a run to the final and they have a chance to win or do win the trophy, then it's a very important, super sick, awesome, meaningful tournament.
01:13:30
Speaker
And if they get grouped and crash out early, then it's a bullshit money grab. It's always been a money tournament. It's a cash grab. It means nothing. It shouldn't exist because of fixture congestion. Correct. Trash tournament if yeah if you get grouped.
01:13:44
Speaker
Which also, let's be real, that's what people say about Open Cup every year, too. They're like, you didn't take Open Cup. Any supplementary tournament. The same people who are like, this is a cash grab, money grab. If they made the, like, of the group and then they, like, bombed be like, you didn't take this tournament seriously enough.
01:14:01
Speaker
Yeah. What are we talking about? Here's what I'll say far as like my caring level, if Seattle makes a run or wins it or not. ah I think I, I do want them. I don't, I don't know like if I care if it's this year or not, but I do want them to win this tournament at some point because if they do win it, it's, you know, it's, it's a new tournament in the last few years. So the fact that they haven't won it yet doesn't mean a heck of a lot.
01:14:27
Speaker
But if they do win it at some point in the next few years, then that I think that makes it so any future year where they don't win it, it allows you to just say, oh, we're like we already whatever. yeah already won that So I want the ability to be able to be like, all right, that's that's in the trophy case. It's it's added to the very already impressive collection of trophies that this team has won.
01:14:50
Speaker
And now that it's in there, I don't have to like really care that much at all if they win it again in the next few years after that. So yeah, them when they made the run to the final before like the fact they didn't win that. fight I mean, they got boat race in that final.
01:15:06
Speaker
I want them to win it. um want them to win it because it's like got to avenge that that final loss, you know. Yeah, and it's and it's one that they haven't won yet. And like it or not, it's one that's going to be getting played like for the foreseeable future. At least a couple more years.
01:15:20
Speaker
At least. So how much yeah how much should you care about it? As much as you want. Yeah, as much as you want. For me, it just depends how they... It honestly does just depend on it. But is that not the beauty of this tournament?
01:15:32
Speaker
Is that like you can you can care or not care? And like... if if they win, you get to brag about it. And if they don't, you it like no one really cares that much. You know what i'm saying? it's like And if you win, you get money and you get a birth into the Champions Cup. It's think about it.
01:15:48
Speaker
It's really win-win-win. yeah winwin if you think about it it's really a win-win win That's yes. And you know, I will say like what you mentioned about it ah ah taking teams out of the open cup and stuff. That is a valid ah discussion, ah valid point to make.
01:16:07
Speaker
ah I just like i I think it just doesn't it's not relevant as to whether like they're going do a tournament like this or not. They want more platforms for MLS and Liga Mechies teams to to play each other.
01:16:22
Speaker
And like, if you asked me all things being equal, like before Leagues Cup existed, if I would have supported another tournament, like for MLS teams to get a chance to play games against these teams, I would have said, yeah, like I would have.
01:16:35
Speaker
ah But it does, you know, the issue of fixture congestion and there are just being too many games, that is a real issue. That is a real issue. Just wait till we get 30 teams, Ari. Yeah, I mean, so they're going to they're goingnna have to reckon with that to a greater extent at some point.
01:16:51
Speaker
But, you know, as for the existence of the tournament itself, i'm i'm looking i'm looking forward to watching Seattle get to play these
Impact of El Trafico Incident
01:17:00
Speaker
teams. I think it it makes makes the players better. It makes the team better to get reps against opponents like this.
01:17:07
Speaker
ah All right. Just how do you ah had a couple of other things that I wanted to hit and then we can get out of here. Does that sound good? Let's do it. All right. ah Did you see El Trafico?
01:17:19
Speaker
I did. I did see El Trafico. I did. I just wanted to ah note how Eddie Segura went full new who. Like it was, ah it was a Sounders esque crash out that it was, it was, it was their own red card wedding. Almost. It was hilarious to be honest.
01:17:35
Speaker
ah They were ahead three to one at one point where they should have won that game by the way. Yeah, they were, I mean, happy foot, sad foot fellas. Um, it what are we doing the uh you know darby game doesn't matter how bad the galaxy are i get it but lfc did that to themselves they were ahead three to two in the 90 whatever stoppage time minute and uh there's a classic like rivalry match fracas where the uh team fracas coast that's a that's a lobbing scorchers episode five Yeah, you have to go back to that. Yeah, you'll have to run it back. There was a fracas on the field at the end, and Eddie Segura, LAFC center back, just lost it.
01:18:20
Speaker
And he went. ah The Happy Foot, Sad Foot guys were very aggrieved that this was called a red card. Anytime you go up here, You can't do it. Like, even if it seems minor or quick or not, uh, like that violent or red card worthy, if you put your hand in this neck, head, face, head face, now you and that, that, this region,
01:18:43
Speaker
Yeah. You're gun you're susceptible. you can't You can't do it. You just can't do it. You just can't do it. Like, they ah can justify ejecting you, even if it's not... Like, he it's not like he was strangling the guy, but he did go up towards the neck and got sent off, ah I think, justifiably.
01:19:02
Speaker
And, um and then they give up the equalizer to Maya Yoshida right after, and they end up tying that ended up benefiting Seattle because Seattle temporarily jumped over LAFC. Always been a galaxy podcast, by the way. Yeah, exactly. But LAFC, they do have a couple games in hand on Seattle,
01:19:20
Speaker
But if Seattle keeps winning games, they can they can keep themselves right in this top. They're in fourth right now. They are top four team in the West. If they like if they win this Atlanta game, they keep their league form going.
01:19:36
Speaker
They'll be like in in a race with LAFC for this like home field advantage spot. Thank you. will low Dolo is our sleeper agent. dolo is our He's dude. He's, he's, he's stayed for the season just to benefit Seattle. And I want all of our LAFC podcast listeners to know we're a Dolo in show because he is helping us.
01:19:56
Speaker
He is helping us and we will love him forever for that. Yeah, but anyway, ah that was a nice little two points drop for LAFC. ah ac what if like they died They just did not need to but just don't get thrown out.
01:20:08
Speaker
and Just don't do that. Just don't do that. yeah like don't Definitely don't ah go at a guy's neck and get thrown out in stoppage time when you're trying to see out the lead in a rivalry game.
01:20:19
Speaker
Can't do it. I wouldn't do I wouldn't do it. He knew who would do it. I wouldn't do it. Eddie Segura like took a page out of the playbook. Yeah. Eddie Segura saw the, the new who flipping off the ref meme and was like, I need my own.
01:20:33
Speaker
I need my own. i have to make, but I have to make my name. It was a good crash out, you know, happens to the best of us. I'm not going to sit here and say the team we cover is above a crash out. I mean, Oh no, they love a crash. They they love a good crash out.
01:20:47
Speaker
Uh, But yeah, like ah that brings me to the next point, which is just that the West is wide open.
Seattle's Western Conference Opportunities
01:20:53
Speaker
ah Nico and i talked about this on kickoff, but ah Vancouver, not doing so hot right now.
01:20:59
Speaker
San Diego, not doing so hot right now. Minnesota, look, i ah I believe in it to an extent. I don't know if I believe in it like as far as... Fraud watching?
01:21:14
Speaker
It's not even fraud watch. It's more just like, sustainability. Well, I guess that's sort of the same thing, but like, I don't think it's fraudulent because they are, uh, their performances are, are good. Their underlyings are good. Their production is good. It's not like a St. Louis city fraud watch situation where their underlying numbers were trashed. They weren't really like, uh, doing anything that looked sustainable at all. And they were somehow magic carpet riding their way to these results where you could,
01:21:45
Speaker
kind of tell it was fraudulent the loons i mean you got to give them credit like their set piece possession like their possession really well if they do it well and it's been getting them results all season but the the kind of what i've been mulling over with them is it's like when you get to the playoffs and you're playing the other elite teams in the league much better your defensive teams can this really take you gimmicky is the word i was using it strikes me as something that could be gimmicky i'm not even saying that it is yeah it could very well not be eric ramsey could gimmick watch gimmick watch gimmick watch there there you that's like a new new segment
01:22:23
Speaker
But either either way, Seattle is is within striking distance of all the teams I just named on the table. And I think San Diego losing this a lot, a low ski guy. And then the Whitecaps still don't have Ryan Gold.
01:22:35
Speaker
They transferred Pedro Vitae and Ranko Veselinovich just towards his ACL. So like ah they're down horrendously bad, to be honest with you. So the, as we've talked about, the window is open there.
01:22:49
Speaker
you have any thoughts on the, on the table or a quick, quick hit on this Atlanta game was my last topic. I'll hit a quick hit on this and then we can quick hit Atlanta game. I just think that the Sounders have an opportunity to get some home playoff matches. And I think that that's always of benefit.
01:23:08
Speaker
you You, if you really want to make a run, you got to finish in that top four. yeah, Got to stop dropping dumb points and i got to lock in. So we'll see how it goes. But I mean, it's the West does feel very open. I couldn't tell you who's going to win the West today.
01:23:22
Speaker
That's for that's for sure. I couldn't. I still think San Diego, but like they are not doing well right now. They're really they're like not. yeah ah Atlanta United, i mean, i gave my thoughts on ah kickoff. i'm going to talk about it more on Under the Lights. We're wrapping up anyway, so don't need to spend a lot of time on it.
01:23:42
Speaker
But I guess, you know, I was saying that, like, ordinarily a road trip game like this, I look at as, like, a... ah A draw is fine, even if it's against a team that you think you're way better than or marginally better than.
Upcoming Match against Atlanta United
01:23:59
Speaker
the These MLS road trips where you have to travel across country like this are just never as easy as you wish they were. And they often do not go how you think they should based on like personnel or recent form or anything like that.
01:24:14
Speaker
And with that in mind, like, I was saying that Seattle, I think they should win this game because I watch this Atlanta team a lot. But, like, ah i would i would I would strongly caveat that with if this game turns into, like, a pull-your-teeth-out type, like, ah we super just, like, ugly zero zero or 1-1 deep into the second half. and you're having a butt Do not be surprised if this game goes like that. It could really...
01:24:44
Speaker
and but it's a, it's a Eastern conference road game where you got to travel like 2,500 miles. It's just fundamentally not easy, no matter who the opposition is. So I don't know. How are you, how are you feeling up going, feeling going into this matchup with the five stripes?
01:24:59
Speaker
I mean, I hope they win. That's kind of where I'm at. it's it's ah It's a little bit of an unknown anytime like you're saying you travel and you play a team. I feel like they can win this game. I feel like they can win this game. I feel like it's fair to expect them to win this game.
01:25:13
Speaker
ah It's a test. It's going to be a test for De La Vega. It's going to be a test for I would love to see Ryan Kent. I would love to see Ryan Kent in this game. You know what? I'm going to say it.
01:25:23
Speaker
I'm going to, I'm going to fourth time. Listen to Lobby Scorchers kickoff. Let me hear you and Nico talk about play Ryan Kent on the right side. Let's see what, let's see what happens. I meant to bring that up and didn't, but like it worked with De La Vega. So I think we might, a caller brought this up on post game. Maybe like flipping, flipping De La Vega worked, maybe flipping Ryan Kent.
01:25:46
Speaker
It will work too. Why not? Why not? listen If it works one time, why can't it work a second time? I, I, why not? um I'm here for it. Hopefully they can, uh, play up to the level that we've seen them play up, uh, play at offensively. We didn't really even get into the defensive.
01:26:05
Speaker
issues that much on this show. We'll see how the defense looks in ah this game. Seattle has conceded Reagan's seven goals in the last three games. Reagan's back. Yeah. Mars back. Hopefully they can get some like solidity in the back line.
01:26:20
Speaker
I tend to think that a lot of the defensive issues and ah we've been seeing are to do with continuity. they've been It's just been such a rotating cast of characters back there. I think if you can find some consistency, it will even out back to the level of defense that we typically expect from from this team.
01:26:40
Speaker
ah but So that's one thing to look for in this game is can they be more solid at the back, not concede multiple goals to an Atlanta United team that is... Struggled on both sides of the ball all year.
01:26:51
Speaker
So it would be a big road win. It would be some positive momentum going into League's Cup, and it would solidify them in the in the top four.
01:27:02
Speaker
So big game, even against a struggling opponent. All right, Noah, I think we can call it right there for this episode. ah Thank you so much, as always, to everyone for tuning in.
Episode Conclusion
01:27:13
Speaker
Like, comment, subscribe, rate five stars, write reviews, lobingscorchers.com slash, lobingscorchers.com slash, ls, lobingscorchers.com slash, archive. That loons kit, fire.
01:27:25
Speaker
It looks great. Feels great. What am I missing? ah Post game show on Saturday. I'm down to do it on yeah on Saturday. Right after, right after. All right, yeah, let's commit. we're goingnna We'll do a postgame live on Saturday right after the match or as soon as after Final Whistle as we can.
01:27:46
Speaker
Lobbing Scorchers kickoff Monday with Nico, 8 a.m. I think that's it. Are we good? I think we're good. All right, we're going to call it right there. Until next time, we out. Peace.