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Nos Audietis: How did Atlanta United get so broken?
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The Seattle Sounders head into their match against Atlanta United with some rumors swirling and some excitement building. Jeremiah and Niko spend the first segment discussing most of that. In the second segment, they welcomed The Athletic’s Felipe Cardenas onto the show to discuss one more rumor and everything else that’s going on with Atlanta United.
Follow Niko Moreno on BlueSky and YouTube.
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Nos Audietis is the flagship podcast for Sounder at Heart, which became a reader-supported website on Aug. 21. You can support us by becoming a paid subscriber, learn more here. You can also watch many of their shows on YouTube.
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Transcript
Introduction and Sounders Highlights
00:00:01
Speaker
Hi, I'm Will Bruin, and I was just recognized as a Seattle Sounders legend. Now I get to do voice reads for the Sounder at Heart podcast network. Here we go. Come on. Hey, O'Shaughnessy.
00:00:13
Speaker
Let's go. What save by Frye. The Seattle Sounders have done it. MLS Cup winning. Here comes Ruiz Dias through the middle to crowd it for Seattle.
00:00:29
Speaker
And now they truly can start the celebrations. It's the Sounders MLS Cup. Nico leaves absolutely no doubt. The Sounders rule the region.
00:00:43
Speaker
Seattle, Sounders, it's got built.
00:00:52
Speaker
This feels fucking awesome. This is a tiny dog. Nice work on your little yacht yat thing. And Portland can't say shit.
Media and Sponsorships
00:01:01
Speaker
know, what was the thought process in terms of who you decided to use and who you didn't?
00:01:06
Speaker
Ever since Southert Hart wrote a commentary that we didn't take over coming seriously. Go, not Seattle!
00:01:18
Speaker
This episode of Nos Arietes is sponsored by Full Pull Wines, a Seattle-based wine retailer and proud sponsor of Nos Arietes since 2011. Full Pull was founded in 2009, is based in Seattle, and is owned and operated by longtime Sounder supporters.
00:01:32
Speaker
They offer the best boutique wines of the world to members of their mailing list, with special focus on their home, Pacific Northwest.
00:01:43
Speaker
Welcome back to another episode of Nos Adietes on the Sounder at Heart Podcast Network. I am Jeremiah Shan. It is Thursday, but it's the end of the week. So we're here with Nico Moreno on what we learned this week.
00:01:58
Speaker
I have not been here until today. So you're going to do a little bit of the heavy lifting, which you're more than capable of doing, Nico. But welcome back for another episode. Yeah, well, I was always excited to be on, excited for the fans to hear little bit about the weekend. Yes, you left me a hill by my lawn. I know, you held it down.
00:02:16
Speaker
But you know what? You do enough work. mean You do a lot of work. I really do. i I'm not just saying that. You lot of work. So I think sometimes you got to take take a little load off. So I was happy to be here and observe. I got some really interesting things to talk about. So, yeah, man, just back to you so we can get
Injuries and Recovery
00:02:32
Speaker
going.
00:02:32
Speaker
Yeah, I will also say that we have a little bit of a different format to the show today because we're going to do our normal thing, and then after the break, we're going to come back and we have an interview with Felipe Cardenas of The Athletic. He is, if you don't know, he is one of the more plugged-in reporters on the atlantic scene Atlanta United scene, and he's going to give us a little bit of a preview, talk about what's going on there, maybe give us a little update on everything. We have a little bit more interest in Atlanta, I think, than...
00:03:01
Speaker
most Eastern Conference teams, so this will be kind of fun. Yeah, no, and look, mi paisano, you know, my parce, he's one guy that is not afraid to let Atlanta have it. No, he's not. So that's why I thought it was interesting talk to him and and get his perspective because he he's as raw as he gets. He'll let you know what it is and what's not.
00:03:21
Speaker
And so I appreciate that for him. So i think it's going to be an interesting little end to the to the show today. Well, ah as far as what's going on here, this was a funny, um funny that I missed...
00:03:33
Speaker
training this week or most of this week because some actual news happened at training and that was yesterday you observed paul rothrock falling awkwardly on his hand and then today brian schvenster confirmed that he basically broke his hand his right hand and he had surgery today i guess they have to put in some sort of metal pin to fix it but the good news is that he's not going to be out very long. He's going to miss the game this week, but it sounds like he could be back for Leagues Cup and it might not, you know, he'll have to play with some sort of cast.
00:04:08
Speaker
So if you remember back, Freddie Montero once upon a time played with a big cast on his hand. i imagine it's kind of a similar situation. But what did you see yesterday that made us worried that, and I guess he wasn't here at training today, so that was the real concern. No, it it was a very awkward, and I mean, it it felt like a big fall. but However, it was so accidental that it almost felt, it looked odd. Like he almost like scorpioned, and it seemed like his cleat got caught on the grass, and maybe he was,
00:04:45
Speaker
taking such a big strong step to just kind of break into a play that he just fell awkwardly and he fell right on his right shoulder and arm so I'm guessing he put all his weight trying to stop it and maybe his fingers kind of got caught because he didn't have enough time to get his hands out because initially I thought it was his shoulder And I was like, there's no way it's another shoulder injury. Because if you know, Paul is a guy that he's not going to go down just because he's going to down. mean, he usually gets up. And he tried. He tried to get up.
00:05:21
Speaker
And it almost felt like he was trying to catch his wind. And then he just walked off. And just walked I heard him say something like, i heard a snap. And so obviously when it comes to injuries, I'm very careful. And to Brian, you know, talk about did I figure it out? I'm just, I'm mindful, unless it's like a season in an injury or something like that. But something like that, I just want to wait, right? You know, it is, it was kind of a funny, Brian was like, was surprised ever figured it out.
00:05:47
Speaker
Look, Brian, we're not trying to jump the gun on injury knees. It's like if you guys sit on something, we'd like to get, we get curious. But to the Sounders' credit, they were on top of it. I mean, they were I guess they were going to put out a release anyway. so Yeah, and I saw him wrap his wrist all all the way up to like you know his hand and wrist. So I thought that maybe was some in that area. i Clearly, it was a little bit more than that. was a bone in the hand, like the ring finger. Won't be out long.
Player Form and Strategy
00:06:13
Speaker
But it was a a very odd fall. So I'm glad that it's just that because thought it could have been worse. Yeah, so that's that's good news, I suppose, ah on the curve of injuries this year.
00:06:26
Speaker
It's unbelievable. But the there was some more, I guess, positive news. We found out that Jao Paulo is only going to be out for a few more weeks, apparently.
00:06:38
Speaker
pretty weird situation though. They thought he had torn his ACL. They go in to do the surgery and then they discover that it's not torn and that it just needs to be cleaned up.
00:06:49
Speaker
i I asked around a little bit to see, is it weird that they didn't they misdiagnosed this? And I guess it's not unheard of, but it does seem a little odd that they thought he tore it. And i mean, a doctor presumably
00:07:06
Speaker
signed off on that diagnosis. Yeah, it's weird. haven't asked because already know that I'm going to get the round around from Brian. Yeah. Yeah. b Brian's not going to be the one Yeah. To talk about it. And then I thought about maybe going beyond that. But there have been times here where they'll get like a second opinion and they'll send, you know, MRIs. like Yeah. England is the place that they've been doing that lately. Yeah. So I don't know if at some point maybe the the swelling didn't allow enough of better MRI. I don't know.
00:07:35
Speaker
But what I would say is that it's great news. It is great news. Especially for a guy that was so torn about what that meant for him physically, for his career. ben It's such a i mean it's a big swing because I think it goes from am I done as a player to can I come back in a few weeks?
00:07:55
Speaker
And so it's like it goes from being I might be done to not only i might be playing games, for a couple more years, who knows? Yeah, and I heard it could be like as as close as three weeks. Brian hasn't. He said, well, he said six to eight weeks from when the injury happened. So that would be like two or three weeks from now. Yep.
00:08:14
Speaker
Potentially. That's kind of what I heard, but he, I mean, Brian has been careful with not yeah giving anybody any... any windows, any time window necessarily, but but it's good. it's We talked to Christian about it. He's excited because he admittedly said that he's been playing a lot of minutes to, you know, and everyone's concern. And so he's a guy that could definitely help in in that timing matter. But I clearly worry more immediately, right? You have Leagues Cup, you have this game in Atlanta. He's more than likely, if not almost surely, going to start against Atlanta.
00:08:49
Speaker
So, you know, hopefully everything goes well there. Christian, you're talking about. Christian, Christian. talking about Christian, i'm sorry. But then Joe Paulo, it's just good news. And I feel like that's why there's been ah bit of a good vibe this week. I will say that maybe there's been a couple of players that struggled on the field, but in terms of the vibes...
00:09:07
Speaker
it It's been really good. JP was out here yesterday looking at practice. Paul Arriola was out there looking at practice. It's just there's been a different feel to this week of training. Yeah, one of the players who has looked really good this week, I have only seen him today, but he looked great today.
00:09:24
Speaker
Pedro De La Vega... looks like a new man. um I mean, he, I've always been saying that he looked good in training, but there was sort of a confidence about him today.
00:09:35
Speaker
yeah had a couple of really nice goals. You said he looked good earlier this week as well. Yeah, no, he's looked unbelievable. I mean, uh,
00:09:45
Speaker
short-sighted drills, just overall running in the the scrimmages. I mean, absolutely everything. He had a shot yesterday that was basically a replica of the goal that he had against San Jose, 25, you know, 26 yards away from goal. He cuts inside, puts it with his right foot, nothing that Caster could do to get to that ball. I mean, he's just been...
00:10:13
Speaker
He's been feeling it. The passes, the dribble, and he kind of took on three or four people. The defending, ah he... in one ah One of the 11-on-11, because I don't know if there were scrimmages because it was very slow-paced, kind of we're going to stop it, going to figure how we're doing. Him and Ryan Kent went at one, but Ryan Kent has, you know, maybe two, three steps on him, and Pedro immediately gets and just...
00:10:41
Speaker
pushes and gets in front of him, defends the ball, picks it up, puts it into play to, I believe it was Jaymar, defending in his own third. I mean, the guy has just been working hard. I think one of the things that we,
00:10:56
Speaker
When he isn't scoring or assisting, it's easy to discount the defending work that he does, but he has been really consistent in his willingness to defend, and he is actually a pretty good, like he he creates a lot of turnovers.
00:11:12
Speaker
And if he can put that together with all the offensive contributions that we know he's capable of doing, suddenly you really understand why this is a designated player. And it could not come at a more opportune time because Jordan Morris is going to be out.
00:11:27
Speaker
Best case scenario, he comes back at the very end of the season. Danny Masovsky is scoring to his chances, but he really needs someone to set him up. He's not going to create his own chances. And having a player like Pedro flying around like he is right now, huge for the Sounders' aspirations of what they can do this season. And there's every reason to think that they could have a good game against Atlanta this week.
00:11:55
Speaker
And look, I'm going to go ahead and do it because you won't, but I'm going to give us a pat in the back because if if there has been, ah you know, a couple of people that have not been, you know, in the discord of let's just pull the plug on Pedro and he's yeah gone. Yeah. and he's a bust and and and we've been pretty you know precise about the the amount of minutes that he's gotten, the inability for him to get some continuity. With me, both you and I have talked about him playing on the left side yeah where you know I kind of gave up on it.
00:12:28
Speaker
A couple of months ago. I mean, even a couple weeks ago, i was ready to be like, look, it's just not going to happen. Exactly. But, you know, I'm glad that both Lovin's quarters and in the our show right before that game, I mentioned that I felt like the left side was just going to be better for him in so many ways. One, because it is simpler.
00:12:49
Speaker
i Although he does want to cut inside, it is simpler for him to remember to just stay as the widest guy. One and twice. He takes... Both goals that he was contributing to came from moments like that where he was basically holding a high – he was pushing the high line on the on the far side and he was available and he made great moves to get himself – put himself into space. But that came out of him staying high and wide. And the other part of it i added to that in Christian World and Talked About It. And it's kind of what I've been preaching is that that guy getting farthest and your widest player, he's got to be able to beat somebody of the dribble. He's got to be good on one-on-one situations. And Christian said that's what he does best. It's when he gets going, when he has you know real estate to run, that's where Pedro's at his best. So I just think that
00:13:41
Speaker
there's been a switch. I think his confidence is up. And if you continue to play him on that left side, I just think he's going to be very, very good moving forward. Yeah,
Team Dynamics and Opportunities
00:13:50
Speaker
it's it's really encouraging what we're seeing from him.
00:13:54
Speaker
On the other hand, Ryan Kent does not, seems like he's struggling a little bit with his confidence. we saw it I saw it again today. He just, it's it doesn't look like he's, he was playing so free early on and it and it just feels like it's all coming a little more difficult right now for him. Even in the short-sighted games, those seven-on-seven that yeah so many players like, and where when he first got here, that's where he shined the most. You saw it. He was enjoying it. He was a you know little faints that he does without the ball, getting into spaces.
00:14:27
Speaker
He hasn't been doing that. Actually, I've seen the opposite in the last couple of days where he's almost like head down after he gets dispossessed, head down where he doesn't get the ball, really frustrated. And that that's...
00:14:39
Speaker
a human emotion, right? you You felt like you started off so hot, everything was kind of working. Slowly and slowly, you're getting less and less minutes. You haven't gotten a start and and things are not really working for you and and even the training field. So I do feel like he's in a bit of a funk that maybe you could use Leeds Cup see what that does for him and and and get him going. but But I do have concerns about just how it's not just the fact that he hasn't been playing minutes on the field but it's that he's not even it playing the same on the field on the training field as he did when he first arrived yeah i know what you mean and i i agree with you that the league's cup seems like a huge opportunity for him you would think he's going to get a fair amount or of minutes because the sounders just have to rotate some in this they and i and i
00:15:34
Speaker
I'm sure there's an inclination, and we talked to Brian about it today, about how, you know look, we're going to take this seriously. But taking it seriously, we've said the same thing about Open Cup in the past. Taking it seriously does not necessarily mean using your first-choice players. It means ah it's more of a mentality of the way you approach games and all these other things.
00:15:53
Speaker
And I'm actually looking forward to seeing what they look like with a rotated lineup. I wanna see Georgie Manungu get extended minutes. I wanna see Kalani Kosarianzi get some extended minutes. I wanna see, you know, maybe this is how Nuhu gets work back in.
00:16:10
Speaker
you know I would love it if Stuart Hawkins could get on the field. I don't think that's going to... He is starting to do some more work. I don't know how good he asked the hopes of that. But you know we'll we'll probably see some John Bell. We'll probably see you know Kim Kehe. We'll probably see you know Danny Leyva. This is a huge opportunity for Danny Leyva. Snyder Brunel might get some minutes here.
00:16:30
Speaker
Osase DeVosario might get some minutes. There's a lot of players who I think are interesting pieces who should get a at least a game or two in this tournament.
00:16:42
Speaker
And I really hope like Christian gets some time off. And this might be a controversial take, but I would like to see actually more minutes out of Georgie than Ryan Kent. I don't think that's... I'm with you. And simply because you know that Georgie is going to be here next season, you're trying to nurture that player into being that guy. With Ryan Kent...
00:17:06
Speaker
Honestly, the chances of him coming back next year are slim. Yeah, I i think it's an interesting question because with Ryan Kent, I think the the only reason you bring him back is because he has forced your hand. he has played so well.
00:17:23
Speaker
You know what you have in him. You're going to bring him back. If he can't win his minutes on the training field or in the minutes that he has, that's just not enough. Like he's got to be able to do – you haven't invested enough in him up until now. And you you have to invest too much in him going forward. He was a nice piece to pick up.
00:17:42
Speaker
I think there's still potential that he could be good. But he's – I think the way you – give him opportunities is different from georgie georgie you just need to see it on the field because he's doing everything you can ask off the field you just need to see him what he looks like against top level competition and i'm really excited to see georgie i i'm kind of but that's been one of the the bummers of the since the post club world cup is that he hasn't really been able to get on the field i don't know but literally if he's been able to get on the field Not at all. I can't think of even minutes that he's come down because it's been Ryan Kent and Pedro Delavis. He played against PSG, right?
00:18:20
Speaker
Yes. That was the last time he's played him for the first team. And so he's played some Tacoma Defiance. But yeah, it's been it's so i'm I am with you. i think I want to see Georgie more than Kent. and And it's not even that I'm down on Kent. I just think that they we have to measure them differently.
00:18:36
Speaker
Yeah. And again, you're hoping that you figure out how much that Georgia can give you. I also think that he's a very interesting player that may you know catch some interest as well. right um Can you move him? Right. I mean, same thing goes for Pedro. I mean, there's there's a lot of things that you want to that you get out of getting Georgie minutes, right? How much can I count on him? How would the growth and then the exposure overall? So I think that that's an important one. I do want to see Osase as well, but I will say, and I asked Jesus Ferrer this week,
00:19:11
Speaker
I know a lot of people, and it's a fair assumption, that they believe that the reason why he sues has been consistent and has been a lot better is because he's playing as that right winger. But I would say that it's more than that. i think it's the fact that he is starting to understand the way this group plays, where the being space is, the way Jordan, I mean, the way that Alex does the overlaps, the way that...
00:19:38
Speaker
Albert moves where Obit moves and now that's looking better so I asked him do you think that it's the positional part or is it more of the Thunder's probably do need to use him at the nine I think so just because they need to they're going to need him to play they can't have Danny be the 1a and 1b and to some degree Osaze also needs to just earn his minutes through defiance ye which he has not been doing as much lately Or even in training. I mean, he's a guy that, you know, he's had a couple of good and interesting moments in training when he was first signed. And then it's really slowed down. I agree.
00:20:19
Speaker
And even this week, I've kept my eye on him because I've been asked about Osase. And he just hasn't quite been effective, right? Neither on his press or just getting in front of goal. He's physical. He's very savvy. He gets into the right positions, but he just hasn't, like you said, forced anyone's hand to say, yeah we need to bring in Osas. Yeah, I guess I'm i'm with you, though. Jesus needs to get some time at the nine in Club World Cup because you cannot, unfortunately, you just can't ride Danny and hope because there's no...
00:20:51
Speaker
clear backup plan right now he's he's sort of the guy until they and the thing is about jordan's injuries they're not going to really know his real timeline until he's out of his sling and that could be six weeks right is what they said that's
Training Updates and Partnerships
00:21:06
Speaker
that's six weeks till he's out of his sling and then they're going to be able to maybe okay this is how long it might take but they're not even going to know how long it's going to like until he's out of the sling they don't really know for sure that he'll be back this year which is makes it tough, which means that you' you're putting a lot of eggs in the Danny Masovsky basket. One other player that i wanted to just tu touch on, Yamar missed training today.
00:21:29
Speaker
we were told it was a pro day. Apparently, there's no reason to think he's hurt. It sounds like he's going to travel, probably, maybe even start against Atlanta. Yeah. That's great news. I think that he'll start. Yeah. I was concerned. obviously Yeah. I didn't see Paul. Then, you know, anytime I hear pro days, either. Pro days can mean anything. Pro days can mean anything, right? So maybe he had something to do, something necessary with his family. Maybe it's just a rest day, whatever. Pro days. Right.
00:21:54
Speaker
mean that he's fine and he will travel he will go as far as I know and I can tell this week it's going to be him and Jackson Reagan just surprised to no one that's the best parent you have right now and he's actually look really good he looked great hes he was awesome against kansas or against Colorado and then he was just as good against San Jose his fitness isn't quite there yet but the fact that he played 100 minutes in 3 days is good sign three days is good a good sign Yeah, and I feel like this week he could not be... be played through. Like, this week... No, he was... He looked great. Especially on um open areas. Man, this this week in training, he's been just lights out. So I think he's...
00:22:39
Speaker
Finally, form, he'd probably tell you he's like a 70, 80, because that's just where he always downplays it a little bit. But I do think that he is ready to go, and he's going to be a big part of this defense figuring things out. Because they even against San Jose, you kind of had issues, in and then you end up, you know, Thomas comes out big. They gave up some bad fouls in places. They, you know, they weren't as tight as they could have been. Yep.
00:23:07
Speaker
but And a lot of that has to do, again, in my opinion, with the pivots and the fact that, you know, in that Colorado game, I've said it over and over again that I thought that Christian Rodin should have came off because some of those mistakes he made are made out of exhaustion. yeah And then in this one, I kind of felt the same way, where it's like the 70th minute and even Ovid himself was just just looking just tired. So there's going to have to be some changes, some switches. I don't expect any labor to start this one. it's going to be... safe Yeah, I think this is going to basically, it looks like it's probably essentially the same lineup as played against San Jose with the change obviously being Danny for Jordan.
00:23:43
Speaker
The other thing that I wanted to mention is, Niu has been in great spirits. Niu has been working hard. I still think that Reid will start in in Atlanta. I feel like he has been very good at training as well, specifically in the build-out, pushing.
00:23:59
Speaker
I feel like him and Pedro are really building an excellent report together. They seem to understand each other as well. The fact that Reid speaks Spanish, no one ever expects. so that's a plus on his yeah on their their side and i mean between between pedro's english and read spanish they have no no communication issues absolutely so i just like when it comes to the the soccer language i think they are very compatible yeah so it's going to be interesting that was forward but i wanted to put that up yeah absolutely so the other bit of news that happened this week and i feel like we're in a
00:24:31
Speaker
better place to discuss this than on Nos Audientes the
Staff and Organizational Changes
00:24:34
Speaker
other day. Hervé Deiese has been dismissed by the Sounders.
00:24:41
Speaker
What's the best way, do you think? The way that the Sounders said is that he was... it's it you know it Notable that it wasn't phrased as a mutual termination. i mean, they didn't say he was fired in the press release, but effectively... Immediately.
00:24:54
Speaker
Yeah. I think that's what it said, right? To me, that just... Immediately turned... Well, let's look here. it's it I'll give you my take if you look for that. yeah I'm pretty sure it's so like basically effectively immediately that he's no longer the coach. right Which to me tells me that he was easily fired. And so that comes with a lot of different components for him because I do believe that H, Coach H, brought a lot of very interesting tactics, philosophies. He was not a yes man. He was not yes man. He was willing to challenge you and challenge the team to say, hey, this what I think. And to me, that friction creates fire. And and that's something that I always respect out of Coach H. Now, if they're
00:25:45
Speaker
if he was essentially let And players seem to like him too. Players seem to like him. He's a motivator. Yeah. You know, i was told when he was first brought in that they loved the fact that he he came from the Montreal. That he came from outside the organization. Yep, exactly. That coaching team is different. And there was a lot of good things. But when a When I read that statement, which I'm sure you have. the way they said it was that they had parted ways effective immediately, which is about as straight of a language as you'll get in a press release when someone gets fired.
00:26:16
Speaker
Yeah. So, you know, if in and and what what what I'm guessing happened here is that there was some sort of, you know, violation of you know either code of conduct or or something of that nature where things have happened. I know that he had been suspended for a game. you caught few like A month ago or so. A month ago or so.
00:26:37
Speaker
Because of playing, I think it was Leo Burnie, too long or more than he was told to play that player. There was a way of things happening. But I also see it from the side of maybe he was in a fit and- It seemed like there was some cultural disconnects. Yes. He had a different philosophy of way he wanted to run the team than sort of the than the technical side wanted it run.
00:27:08
Speaker
And those seem to come to a head. And I don't know how much, I don't think it's a complete coincidence that this happens a i mean almost immediately after the Defiance blow a 3-0 lead, that they, again, they led 4-1, and then lose I would imagine, and I don't know, maybe got heated in the locker room after that or something like that. But it it feels, I don't think it's as simple as the the Sounders didn't like the results. There was more going on. There was more of a, the way they're losing kind of situation. And it's, don't know, it seems notable that ever since they had their high of almost beating Tacoma, or beating Portland in the Open Cup, that they've had a real struggle finding consistent results in some
00:27:55
Speaker
Yeah, and I think that there was no differences on – and this is where – and mean you and me have had this discussion before. It's difficult to be that coach because you're trying to develop players. It is a tough job. When it isn't necessarily the most important thing. and then But I do think as a coach you should be able to say, hey, I think this player is talented and I think that he should be kept. And then you being told, no, that's not the way we want to go has to be difficult. I talked about Carlos Gutierrez, the guy from Nacional. Yeah. 20-year-old player, striker, that for everything that I've been able to hear about him, he can hear it lit it up. He was scoring goals right and left, but he was essentially not kept because of his lack of defensive output or something of that nature. That player is now gone. He's in Portland. So it's, you know, some of those things that I think maybe have created lot of
00:28:50
Speaker
friction in between the both parties. But I also, again, the way this was phrased tells me that there's probably something beyond the soccer philosophy that led to the firing.
00:29:01
Speaker
Yeah, it's, you know, and I really liked H. I thought he was an, I thought it was a good hire. ah In the meantime, though, it looks like Mike Morris, who's been the longtime assistant for Defiance, is going to be, uh,
00:29:14
Speaker
serving as the interim head coach. He was one of the finalists for the job last time. i thought he was going to get the job last time. I wouldn't be at all surprised if he ends up getting the job this time, although I would imagine they'll do another search just like they did when they hired H. And it'll be interesting to see if they want to try to bring in people from outside the organization. Because one thing about the Sounders, for better for worse, is that A lot of the people in the organization are internal.
00:29:41
Speaker
It's like you it's got they they've taken a lot of pride in fostering internal promotions of being bringing people in that buy into the whole philosophy and then moving them through the system.
00:29:52
Speaker
And then when they go outside of the organization, sometimes that that invariably they have to go outside the organization at some point. But this was one of the bigger hires they went. really outside the family to make, which is saying something about how internal a lot of these hires are. Like even Craig Weibel was a known commodity because he had played for Brian and he had worked with Garth at the time. And then they brought him in as an assistant, as an essentially assistant general manager, and then elevated him up.
00:30:22
Speaker
And that's, that was kind of an example of going outside the organization. And this is a guy who you know, people inside have personal relationships with. And so they don't, you know, for the higher age, a person that they,
00:30:34
Speaker
had never, no one, as far as I know, no one in the organization had any professional relationship with, or even personal relationship with. And so that was taking a big swing. And I think he brought some good stuff to the organization. I liked him a lot.
00:30:47
Speaker
Uh, I, I, time I talked to him, I'm like, I would want to run through a brick wall for this guy, but I guess maybe it just didn't line up quite how everyone hoped. Yeah. The, the, the Sanders have certain no-nos and I think that maybe he stepped on one of those lines.
00:31:03
Speaker
Um, What I will say is that if you look at the output of like the players that came up through what when he was here, I mean, Kalani, Georgie, I mean, you know, all Snyder. Snyder. Osase. Osase.
00:31:20
Speaker
yeah so Yeah, exactly. they've They've signed a lot of, he's been able to matriculate a lot of players up through Defiance in a relatively short time, so he deserves credit for that. And then the fact that. You know, he got as far as he did in open cup and put the timbers through the fire. You know, all of that. And and again, you you just said it correctly, right? I mean, after that, it's been struggle after struggle after struggle. But again, it's kind of hard to just merit just on but his success here. Yeah, i don't i don't I don't think the on field, I don't think it's as simple as wins and losses, I guess is the way to put it.
00:31:55
Speaker
Exactly. So we'll see how that works out. I feel like the Sounders have always been, and as you should
Community and Sponsorships
00:32:02
Speaker
be, right? Very connected with the Tacoma Defiance. Just yesterday, i mean, yeah, yesterday when the Paul Rothbard happened, the first thing that Brian said, I need another guy. So they go right over to the other Oh, interesting. They bring in Sebastián Gómez, I think. Yeah, and he was there today, He was playing his role. So, you know, they're always looking at what's next. They're always looking at what's moving forward. So whoever that coach is, I hope that he can provide and develop players in the same sense. I agree. I agree. Well, let's take a break. We're going to come back. We're going to talk to Felipe Cardenas of The Athletic about Atlanta United. You're listening to Nos Adietes. It's
00:32:44
Speaker
good.
00:32:47
Speaker
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00:34:38
Speaker
Welcome back to Nos
Transfer Rumors and Player Movements
00:34:40
Speaker
Ariete. So as promised, Nico and i are here with Felipe Cardenas of The Athletic. He is one of the foremost reporters on Atlanta United, and it's just a joy to have him here.
00:34:54
Speaker
We're realizing that this is the first time he and I have met virtually or otherwise. like We have interacted many times. I've heard his voice many times, but this is the first time. So welcome to the show, Felipe. i'm ah What a pleasure to be on the show. And yes, it is. I think we were talking off air that we we know each other through social media. We know each other through through our our history on Twitter and we we read each other, we follow each other.
00:35:17
Speaker
But yes, finally meeting virtually in 2025. It's taken this long, but it's, you know, what a pleasure to finally see you in person or at least see you see you vividly. Right. Like, yeah, not exactly. Yeah.
00:35:31
Speaker
Right, exactly. And my voice is exactly how you imagined it. Oh, yeah, totally. I nailed it. I nailed it in my head, right. Yeah. ah All right, well, let's just get started. You know, Nico was on Q13 last night, and he was talking about about a rumor that is related to Atlanta United. So we may as well just jump in right there.
00:35:54
Speaker
ah Pedro De La Vega might be a player that Atlanta United is interested in. it You know, you look on paper, it doesn't make a lot of sense from a roster bill, you know, or from a salary cap perspective.
00:36:07
Speaker
Atlanta United, of course, has three DPs, all of whom are extremely expensive and extremely have a lot of money still guaranteed to them.
00:36:17
Speaker
I believe Moranchuk might be the the least secure at this point. He's on $5 million a year, and he's guaranteed for two more years after this one. That said, what do you do you know anything about this rumor? Do you give it any sort of credence?
00:36:32
Speaker
So first of all, nothing that I can confirm at this point, but um I think it's really interesting. i can make i can make sense of it, to be honest with you. I think Pedro de la Vega ah would fit a huge need for l LA United in as far as a a winger goes, a very high tempo ah winger that could score, that can play in multiple positions, that has ah what I like to say, you know we call pedigree,
00:37:00
Speaker
But you know he comes from a culture in South America, in Argentina, at Lanús, that I think that type of history and that type of DNA that he's that he's used to is really, really lacking. And at Lanús, they used to have it. yeah Obviously, you guys remember 2017, 2018, and what they call La Banda, you know those South Americans that really...
00:37:26
Speaker
elevated the team, the culture and the style of play. ah You remember a guy like Tito Vigelba, who I think I would would would compare in a way to the type of player that Pedro De La Vega is.
00:37:36
Speaker
And again, Atlanta hasn't been able to find those those types of players. So from a pure talent and fit, I can see it. Now, Jeremiah, you mentioned it, like, how does this work financially? ah You know, I think the one thing that ah makes this rumor interesting and perhaps easy to to to consider is the fact that you just the history between the clubs. You know, we've got Chris Henderson, who's now the the sporting director.
00:38:04
Speaker
Atlanta it clearly has hey probably a very good relationship with still the with the front office in Seattle. I think it's ah the two clubs that have a good relationship.
00:38:17
Speaker
um Obviously, Garth Lagerwey coming as CEO. ah from Seattle to Atlanta in order for that to get done, there had to be amicable negotiations between the two clubs.
00:38:29
Speaker
And so that is a precedent that I think perhaps isn't being widely considered with, with a rumor like this when it involves a player, but all those things matter in professional sports. ah And yeah,
00:38:41
Speaker
you Even though Garth is is is away after his cancer diagnosis, um I wouldn't be surprised if this was a domino that he let fall and is still very probably involved, you know even though he's he's in the midst of radiation treatment.
00:38:56
Speaker
But it does really propel Chris Henderson at this stage to be um the sporting director, the chief soccer officer, the voice of the club. He's already given his first one of... us just a few press conferences that he's had since he's he's been here. He had one a couple days ago.
00:39:15
Speaker
that I thought was important to hear his voice and to establish the expectation. So yeah, to repeat, i don't, I can't confirm that rumor, but I actually like it, you know, for, for, for not just for Atlanta, but for the league to see these types of trades now, interleague trades, ah whether it's a gam or whatever is being exchanged. I think it's just a missing piece of MLS. Like,
00:39:39
Speaker
and When good players leave good clubs, go to another club, what is what is in it for all parties? you know We'll have to find out. ah Yeah, look, and as the guy who put out this report, because I'm going call reports, because I was the one who put it out. That was you, man.
00:39:55
Speaker
I'm going to go ahead and say this, okay? up There's been... quite a few inquiries for Pedro de la Vega, including prior to the club World Cup. ah And this is where I feel like it's a very Chris Henderson move.
00:40:07
Speaker
This was prior to Pedro de la Vega having his best game as a sounder just last weekend. ah Clearly, there is a heavy group of wingers here in Seattle.
00:40:17
Speaker
He knows and understands the talent, just like you mentioned. He's been following the player, so it makes a lot of sense. that knowing that he could probably get Peter de la Vega on the cheap or on the low, on a so on a stock that was low, makes a whole lot of sense. Now, he just had a baller of a game, but that still doesn't mean that Seattle and, you know, me and ah Jeremiah have talked, you know, consistently about how maybe Brian...
00:40:44
Speaker
doesn't really rate him, how maybe it doesn't quite fit what he wants him to do. But after a game like that, it might be a little difficult to let him go, but still not out of the question for me. When when you look at the type of wingers, when you look at potentially if the team does have any sorts of doubts about what Peter Del Viga could do, whether it's because of injuries that he's had in the past, because of just not a cultural fit.
00:41:08
Speaker
You know, we've spoken to guy like Precky, and he kind of talked a little bit about how It's difficult to get a guy to get into the culture when he's kind of been raised in the Argentine league and all of these things that sometimes you have to deal with when it comes to a U22 player type that's coming in from another league. So to me, it makes a lot of sense. And everything you just said, i completely agree with. So between the relationship, the moment, and again, before this huge game that Pedro la Vega had, I think that Atlantica
00:41:41
Speaker
could still probably get them on a, on a good deal, ah whether that'll happen or not, that still to be determined, but, but for sure, I think that there, he has some legs for sure.
00:41:52
Speaker
Yeah. And just to jump in quickly, you know, we were talking off air, you know Pedro De La Vega, I think, represents the type of player that Atlanta United used to really be linked to before they would come to MLS, the young Argentine. Obviously, we know about Lanús' history as as ah as ah as a football factory, and and there are links to to to to to MLS as well.
00:42:13
Speaker
But when he was you know still a teenager and playing in the First Division Argentina, ah you know, there were, ah there were rumors that, Atlanta is definitely go after this guy because that was what Atlanta was doing at the time. And, um it wasn't always, ah the greatest strategy, but they brought in some pretty good players, you know, Tiago Mata being the guy that I think, um,
00:42:35
Speaker
you know, what will go down is probably one of the best players that Atlanta United has ever had. Now, he wasn't fully committed to the project. he He was a plan to come here and then go to Europe. And I think that's that underscores what a lot of the issues are with Atlanta right now. And I think in Pedro de la Vega, Chris Henderson, who when he came on with Atlanta, he came on very um so but almost like.
00:42:59
Speaker
Shortly after he was on, Miguel Almaron was res re-signed. And the one thing that he kept saying about Miguel Almaron, Chris Henderson, was that he has this this way of leading without being a leader. His worth his work ethic is top-notch. He's a professional and all the in all the ways that you'd want. He's coming from the Premier League.
00:43:18
Speaker
And this is something that we need in our in our in our dressing room, in our locker room. Uh, it hasn't been enough, but like, I'm not putting Pedro Delevega at the same level as Miguel Maron, but there is a culture that, that these South American players, I think have that is, is really needed in MLS, uh, and Atlanta needs it.
00:43:36
Speaker
If, if, if what you're telling me, Nico, is that like, he's a bit of a surplus in Seattle, uh, Then maybe this does make a lot of sense for him to come to a club that has a bit of that history.
00:43:47
Speaker
ah That culture culture isn't really there in Atlanta anymore, the South American culture, but he would certainly be a player that personality wise they don't have in Atlanta. So, like I said, i'm I'm into it. I mean, I'm into it to see how this house is probably plays out.
00:44:03
Speaker
Yeah, and before Jeremiah goes, I mean, the fit goes, right? I mean, when I look at Atlanta and I look at the width, he's usually Amador or Lennon or, you know, because Almiron was against into those inside channels and and the guys getting forward at times, maybe, you know, Saba, when he has played at the wingback position or whatever it is, that's when I feel like Atlanta does have a little bit of of dangerous play out in the flanks. But you know it's not enough.
00:44:26
Speaker
You know it's not enough. You know, Nico, like – These guys that you're mentioning have all under delivered. They've all under achieved every single one. And that's just not getting it.
00:44:37
Speaker
It's not enough in Atlanta anymore. And this is going to be a huge ask for Chris Henderson to, to, to not to fix, not just like how the team plays and how they think. And are they, are they together? Is the culture, all that stuff.
00:44:51
Speaker
Yeah. but he's got to find players. That's the one thing that, that Chris Anderson has been applauded for is his talent identification. And so now he has to really, put it into practice at a club that has been really bad in that in that and that area of of recruiting. Not that every player in Atlanta is a bad player, but they just don't fit. In the end, they don't fit, whether it's because they don't want to be here or they're not as good as they thought they were or the numbers.
00:45:17
Speaker
they they've They looked at data and they don't didn't look at personality. um So there's there's a lot... There's a lot going here for for Chris Henderson to
Atlanta United's Challenges
00:45:27
Speaker
turn it around. But it's interesting because you've noticed that the two signings, one signing is done and the other one that that looks like it could be done.
00:45:35
Speaker
or the the other two that look like could be done for Atlanta are all defensive minded signings. um And that's tells you how bad defensively Atlanta has been, but we're here. We're talking about wingers and they can't defend.
00:45:49
Speaker
They can't defend. they They concede goals all the time. So like it's, it's a big issue that Atlanta has and yes, getting a player like Pedro de la Vega or signing a winger, which is what the fans are clamoring for.
00:46:00
Speaker
Yes, that's big, but they have bigger problems. And so one of the players that they did this, the player that they just signed is a, is a center back. Is that right? Right. And they, and there's a possibility that he may actually even debut this week. Is that it could be his training? He's been presented officially. He's been, he's talked to the press already.
00:46:19
Speaker
um you know, that they've had Atlanta's had issues. I think in, in the center back position is with just, ah consistency attitude. And so, you know, Chris Henderson going to Europe and and looking at the center, there's a, there's a second division Spanish center back as well. That's been linked to, outline United, who's a left footer.
00:46:39
Speaker
we We all know how important and how special that can be if you can find a left-footed center back. ah So clearly, Henderson is thinking like, you know we don't have the defenders right now. we we We've traded Efrain Morales, who's a young academy player, Bolivian international to Montreal what is it, 500,000 in Yep.
00:47:01
Speaker
You know, that the the ah fans were were livid about it because he was like the only player that was really showing some promise. But it's all part of like how you have to make things work in um MLS to to get better.
00:47:15
Speaker
And yes, Efrain Morales is a good player. He's young. But, ah you know, Atlanta doesn't have the luxury of of of training these academy players to become stars ah when they're thirteenth in the table.
00:47:27
Speaker
in in the Eastern Conference. you know like They need players that can elevate the team right away. so so yeah To answer your question, Jeremiah, they've signed a center back. They're close to signing another.
00:47:38
Speaker
and Then we obviously, Stephen Alsate, the Colombian dual national um who has English citizenship as well coming from... sa city yeah it's not It's not done, but again, this is a guy that's like more defensive minded, not like a destroyer, not a dog in the middle, but like a very steady performer can, can recover, can, can keep the ball can just really steady. you know, when he had his moments with the Columbia national team, um i think that was 2022. Yeah.
00:48:07
Speaker
yeah He did impress, you know, but I think if you look at Columbia now in that midfield, like a lot of players have just overcome him, but good could be a good signing for Atlanta. And the center backs one better call, right? That's yeah.
00:48:20
Speaker
That's the one that's, that's not signed yet. yeah Oh, that's not, not signed yet. Right. That's the span. So who's the player that they've already, that, that might actually debut this week.
00:48:31
Speaker
I'm going to tell you his name right now.
00:48:36
Speaker
but Yeah. Cause Juan ah but no one but but it has been signed on loan. Yeah. over time alone Yeah. And then the other one is he's also Eastern European.
00:48:50
Speaker
is what happens when I go on vacation, guys. Oh, no, no problem. No, but but definitely defense is one of the things that they're trying to solidify. And just building out of the back has been a problem for this team. ah You and I have discussions in the past before, Felipe, about just guys that just haven't – um even gotten close to what they thought they were going to get in a guy like Ibram, right? And he just has not been ah good. The Peruvian just hasn't quite fit, and he just doesn't seem to have it aside from being a left-footed defender. So, yeah, that's definitely place of need.
00:49:23
Speaker
So the other players, Ineja Mihai, who's an Albanian ah coming from the Portuguese league, you know, looks like it looks a lot more rugged as a defender. And and I think that's another I mentioned attitude in the in the center back position for Atlanta. I think that's a good that that's the one thing that they just don't have. you and Nico mentioned a Peruvian international who who is consistently called up to the Peruvian national team for World Cup qualifiers for major tournaments, Luis Abram.
00:49:48
Speaker
And when he plays for Atlanta, like you wonder if this guy even cares or a question like how does he how is he still a full international for Peru it just hasn't worked out and he's a left-footed center back Luis Abram but you know Atlanta and And I know this is a Seattle Sounders podcast, but just I think it's important for Seattle to understand who they're facing. And like if absolutely the team that they're going to play and like what the the where this team is, I think mentally and culturally, it's it's a team that is in complete disarray.
00:50:23
Speaker
and And so sometimes that can be dangerous. you know, you, you, you, sometimes the team suddenly sees the other shirt on the other side of the, of the pitch and it's ah a popular and a big brand like Seattle and they, Atlanta has played up to their composition at times.
00:50:37
Speaker
So it's still an interesting matchup, but certainly two clubs going in totally opposite directions. Well, I guess ah getting to that point, you know, this was supposed to be but team. This was, this was supposed to be sort of the year that, that Garth Lagawey is it i imprint on the team was really supposed to take place.
00:50:58
Speaker
yeah I think they were, they were a a semi somewhat popular dark horse pick for supporter shield winner. A lot of people thought they would be an MLS cup contender. They spent $50 million dollars on the transfer window on the last two, the previous two transfer windows.
00:51:12
Speaker
This is a team that has brought in big talent and, and that talent just has not performed perfectly. Really on, I mean, you can kind of go down the list.
00:51:22
Speaker
who How do you sort of process what's going on there when it's not, it's clearly not money. It's it's it's hard to put it on the talent identifiers when they have been successful other places.
00:51:36
Speaker
it just doesn't seem to really add up correctly. Here's how I have explained it over the past few years. And it's important that I say past for you, because that's where Atlanta has been over the past few years. They have struggled to get back to the top of the Eastern conference. They had a huge run and ah and a memorable run last year in the playoffs, eliminating you know, Miami and to your point, Jeremiah was like, all right, this is it. This is the, the, you know, the seat has been planted. This is the momentum we need. And there's, there's going to be big changes and,
00:52:04
Speaker
the players are going to be more committed and we're going to bring in, know, we're going to spend more money and all those things happened. And the results have been actually worse. The team has, has gotten worse in 2025.
00:52:16
Speaker
And I go back to two instances, you know, I could sit here for, for days to talk about why I think Atlanta struggled, but like, I'll go back to like two instances. One, you know, when Gabrielle Heinsohn was hired and then fired,
00:52:30
Speaker
ah yeah I don't think the club has really recovered from that and recovered. What I mean by that is like, that was such an important hire and then such a controversial firing and termination that, that involved players going to the union players, going to the front office, Gabriel Heinz essentially walking in and saying, I don't care who the star players are here. I don't care what history there is here.
00:53:01
Speaker
I'm the boss now. And rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. And I reported extensively on this and saying, when you hire Gabriel Heinz, that's what you're going to get.
00:53:12
Speaker
You can't harness it. You can't deal with it. Don't hire him. It's happened at every club he's ever been at. And he's won. Sometimes he's flopped at times, but he hasn't changed. And when When that happened and he was fired, I think it gave a lot of power to the players because they really rose up in a way, especially like Joseph Martinez and some of the other big players were like, this you know we're not we're done, we're not going to play for this guy. And the club made a decision to back the players, essentially.
00:53:45
Speaker
And i don't think the the culture of the club has ever recovered from that. It has become so complacent, so complacent. um I remember during... um Gonzalo Pineda during his his stay, which we all know Gonzalo, you know, ah enjoy talking to him. I've enjoyed I enjoy covering him and in certain moments of his time in Atlanta.
00:54:10
Speaker
ah But there were also times where i was like, i would show up at training after a loss or after multiple losses. And the players are like messing around. During Rondos, laughing, giggling. remember a local reporter who covers the Falcons, the Braves, and, you know, occasionally does cover Atlanta United. She's like, didn't they just lose two games?
00:54:32
Speaker
like two games you know, and so that, that was what they were giving off. And that was so drastically different from the Tata Martino years where a draw was devastating to that group.
00:54:47
Speaker
They, when they would draw games, it was like the locker, you'd walk in locker room and it was like a funeral, you know, and ah that's just not the case anymore. And so, To make a long story short, you know, that is where this team is. So when and when that culture is like that, it doesn't matter how good you are talent wise. It gets hard to to keep it going consistently. You know I don't think the players are as close as they used to be and internally.
00:55:13
Speaker
a lot of players have been looking individually like, where am I going next? ah Multiple players have come in and gone because they've come here as a trampoline. They want to get somewhere else.
00:55:25
Speaker
ah There hasn't been longevity, enough longevity in players that want to stay. So it's a tough one. It's ah it's a big, big, big task for Chris Henderson the entire front office to to make that work.
00:55:39
Speaker
And Felipe, in that same sense, in what I like to call the curse of Damartino, it seems like um Atlanta continuously goes against coaches that just don't fit, right? We could go to Frank DeBoer, you know, the Gonzalo Pineda thing didn't quite work. pain sayy I mean, there's been so many, right? Right now we got Ronnie ah that by all means...
00:56:04
Speaker
He got MLS championship with a very good New York City FC team. I don't want to call him overrated, but I just don't know if he necessarily ah deserved all the, you know, spectacle that it was when he was first signed with Atlanta.
00:56:20
Speaker
I just heard him against Charlotte call his team soft and that they lacked character. You know, where is that? And how bad is that of part of the disarray that is Atlanta United right now?
00:56:32
Speaker
I just saw Jeremiah's reaction to that. Yeah, it's true, Jeremiah. He said that after they conceded like 15 seconds into the second half, they're up one nil on Charlotte at home. 15 seconds after the the the second half whistle to the second half kickoff, ah Charlotte scores.
00:56:49
Speaker
So Ronnie Dela tells reporters later that like after so a bit of a rant about that, he says it's just the same as always, like a soft goal, lack of character. And this is becoming a norm for Ronnie Dela where he has had no real issues throwing his players under the bus. And then he like does, tends to course correct and like support them. It's sort of ah an odd dynamic.
00:57:11
Speaker
um my My theory there is that, Ronnie Dela has the backing of the club right now. um And Chris Anderson went ah public yesterday and essentially confirmed that, that he's not going anywhere. He's their guy. And like they need to work together to bring the players and the right fit for what Ronnie Dela has to do. So if you're a player in that situation, like your future is completely uncertain at this point. like Cause that you have a coach that's willing to tell the public that we're not good enough.
00:57:46
Speaker
I need other players. And you're not saying it explicitly, but that's the message. And if he knows he's not going to get fired, even though they've been dismal, ah then then it really sets up an odd, an odd bit of chemistry between coach players, fans, et cetera. So yeah,
00:58:05
Speaker
that That is, you know Ronnie Daly, i I think, has been given a bit of a pass, but, and you know, around that Atlanta United fandom, he certainly is not that well-regarded right now.
00:58:17
Speaker
um i agree with you, Nico. I think that, you know, Ronnie Daly gets the MLS Cup with new York City FC I believe 2021. You know, he has titles with Celtic. You know, he's won ah in in leagues that,
00:58:34
Speaker
You look at the resume and and it's worth you know really applauding. i don't know i still don't know if he's the right guy for Atlanta United, honestly, because even if this team and the players are being have been it's gone from the coaches are bad and the front office is bad to now everyone in the Atlanta United universe accepting our players aren't good enough, fine.
00:58:56
Speaker
but a coach can't just get off scot-free, you know, like you've got to be able to fix things every once in a while and, and get your players to play ah it consistently well, even if it's not the right fit, I didn't bring them in.
00:59:11
Speaker
So I don't know. I think Ronnie Dela is, is, You know, not dead man walking at this point because what I've mentioned, but, you know we know in professional sports, sometimes when you get that vote of confidence, it's not necessarily a good thing. I'm not sure what that is right now, but, um you know, there are good coaches that are available.
00:59:29
Speaker
And if Atlanta wants to do what they've done in the past, which Jeremiah mentioned, they'll just spend money if they have to fix a problem. they I don't think they would think twice if they need to go in another direction.
00:59:42
Speaker
You know, and then on that on that same token, you know, you like I said, you look at this roster, there is talent here. It's hard to, i don't know, I look at this roster and I see, how do you how does mel Miguel Amarone, who made so much sense,
00:59:56
Speaker
at have three goals and three assists. yeah How does Emmanuel Latte Lath, who came into this league sort of with the idea that it's like, this is just a whole different level type of player. Totally.
01:00:08
Speaker
it seven easy He's being outproduced by Danny Masofsky right now. no No shade to Danny Masofsky. But this is not this is like the that kind of speaks to to what kind of season they're having. And he's a $21 million dollars signing, Emmanuel Latte Lath. Right.
01:00:22
Speaker
$21 million. dollars And I guess there's, i have two questions. One is, i do honestly wonder this, is how much of this is a product of, you know, you have a Chris Henderson and you have a guy like Garth Logoway who have operated, sort of thrived almost in limitations.
01:00:42
Speaker
Because the sign the big signings that Miami was me mostly known for were not necessarily Chris Henderson signings, right? These were guys, he was his job was really to supplement the superstars and bring in all the guys around them. and I think he did an amazing job with it, but there was some limitations there. his His whole trick was understanding MLS roster rules and working within that.
01:01:03
Speaker
And Garth has always been at teams before this where he's been given pretty extreme limitations. He's never been given an open checkbook. And I just, I almost wonder if one of the problems here is,
01:01:18
Speaker
to a brain trust that's been sort of given an almost an open checkbook and say, Hey, do whatever you got to do. Get us the players. You, what if you didn't have the limitations and like some of these signings made almost too much sense.
01:01:31
Speaker
Like I remember the day before or right before the Miguel Maron rumor started to really catch fire. Craig Weibel, we were talking to him and he's like, I mean, obviously they're going to go get Miguel Maron. That just makes too much sense. And I almost wonder too much sense. Sometimes there's a reason things make too much sense and maybe spending $10 million dollars on a 31 year old winger or, yeah you know, a pocket winger, whatever you want to call Miguel Maron doesn't make as much sense in reality as it did on like, well, if we just get that band back together.
01:02:03
Speaker
Yeah, it's really interesting. Like, what if Arthur Blank just suddenly was like, you know what, we're not spending more than $20 million dollars or $15 million dollars a year. I don't care how much money I have. do That would be really interesting, you know, because i think part of the problem that Atlanta United it has is that they've had these...
01:02:20
Speaker
you know these decision makers in the in the front office that you respect, and you know now we're talking about Garth Ligerway and Chris Henderson, but their scouting department is still, you know it's it's it's <unk> just not good enough right now. It's a young a young club.
01:02:36
Speaker
And they don't have, no one looks at Atlanta United or thinks of Atlanta United is like, wow, their recruiting strategy is is is crazy good. No, they just spend money. they money like they could they they didn't They didn't discover Tiago Amada.
01:02:51
Speaker
okay No, they just offered $16 million dollars you know or more. um it indeed So know this Amaliyah Latte Loth is a great point. like he wasn't He wasn't this like needle in a haystack. you know He was playing well in the championship.
01:03:08
Speaker
He's an international. He's a big guy. He scores goals. He's fast. Yeah. He's just like a beast. And so then again, like, how do you get this guy? how you pull this guy away from being a few steps from the premier league?
01:03:22
Speaker
Because if he's good enough, if he's a $20 million striker, why, why isn't he playing for Ipswich or playing for a, you know, a bit of a mid table, bottom table, premier league club. Maybe if he would have stayed at Middlesbrough, he would have gotten that jump. But instead Atlantis throws out $20 million dollars to ah championship club deal done.
01:03:42
Speaker
And then they get here and it's not what they expect. Players around them aren't, aren't, aren't as good as they thought. ah There's no pressure as there was in the championship or in South America. It's complacent. Like I said before, yeah,
01:03:57
Speaker
you know that That is something that even intelligence and history, which Garth Lagerwey and Chris ander Henderson have, don't can't fix overnight. you know it's It's going to be a tough one.
01:04:10
Speaker
you know And Miguel Almarone, I agree. really expensive for a 31 year old player who we all understood, you know, six years in the prem, which who I thought, you know, i think he really battled. He got better. He proved that a player like him because of the profile player that he is. you je Jeremiah, you mentioned it like, is he a winger? Is he pocket winger? Is he a second forward? Is he 10? You know, he went to Newcastle and really difficult circumstances and like, you know, became who he is today, but he's always had,
01:04:42
Speaker
a guy next to him, you know, yeah You know, even in Newcastle, there was always, he wasn't the guy yeah You remember him with Joseph Martinez. And for Paraguay, i haven't talked to him about this, Miguel Maron here in Atlanta. I'm like, you don't have Julio and Ciso next to you for the for for who he who plays at for Brighton. He's just like a ridiculous young baller.
01:05:07
Speaker
And when you watch Almaron play for Paraguay, surrounded by all these players that will run their tails off, and let Miguel float around produce create.
01:05:19
Speaker
He looks like a top player for 31 year old. He looks like a good player. There's a good player who's going to be at the next world cup and be important to his national team. He goes to Atlanta and he looks like he's not sure who to pass the ball to. He's not sure. Should we shoot? me shoot Should you dribble?
01:05:34
Speaker
So, you know, chemistry and culture and identity get overplayed a bit in, in, in, in sports, but, I can't I keep going back to those words as the problem with Atlanta doesn't matter how much you spend. If you can't fix those those parts of the of the puzzle, then you're going to struggle.
01:05:52
Speaker
Yeah, oh that' that's a great insight, Felipe. Now, in terms of this game, ah part of what I talked about last night was it feels as if the deficiencies in Atlanta's game right now play really to Seattle's strengths over the last three or four games.
01:06:11
Speaker
Seattle has done a really good job at getting on the front foot, scoring early. being that team that that that gets on the front
Sounders vs. Atlanta Matchup
01:06:18
Speaker
foot, right? That's something that Atlanta has struggled with, right? They're getting scored as soon as they have the locker room, they have issues. Sometimes after the the initial kickoff, it's like two minutes later, it's one nil to the other side. Exactly. And then when it comes to building out of the bag, they can't get out of their own way, giveaways in their own third, things like that. Seattle has been very good, very effective pressing, creating chances, creating goals out of there.
01:06:41
Speaker
So to me, it feels like, They match up very well with Atlanta. ah So for me, I think Seattle will probably get out there and get a good result, get a win. But I wanted to get your take in terms of how do you think this game might play out?
01:06:56
Speaker
I mean, Seattle, here's here's my 3,000 miles away view of the Seattle Sounders. I just recently saw them extensively at the Club World Cup. right I was covering that tournament um night and day, and I walked away thinking that for Seattle being in ah just an absolutely brutal group,
01:07:16
Speaker
ah were they Did they put any respectable performances? Yes. They also looked you know severely limited at playing against some of the top teams in Europe. ah No shame there. you know that we could go We could have a whole podcast on on why MLS teams look like that at ah at a major club tournament.
01:07:34
Speaker
um But still, you know, they have, you know, we talk about identity and all that, like, you know, it's Brian Schmetzer, like you understand how they're going to play, you sort of get how they're going to play. They may not have great performances all the time, but there is a system in place. They have, they have players that I think can, know,
01:07:50
Speaker
can can make a difference in this league you know i i still think jesus ferrera needs to do more and and be more ah selfish and and you know prove that like you are one of the very few american dps and and even in the history of the league you know like that's that's something you've got to really put up obet vargas who i love like we you know we all know that his talent there and defensively Seattle's pretty good. I remember before the club World Cup when we did the big anonymous executive survey ah one one executive for another and mls team told me like of all the MLS sides in the club World Cup he felt Seattle had the best chance because they were just the best team defensively of the three sides. that were in it.
01:08:30
Speaker
ah That was his view. You know, you you guys watch Seattle all the time. You understand their their their flaws and all that. But I do think that that is a bit of a strength, something that Atlanta doesn't have. And so, you know coming into Mercedes-Benz Stadium, i don't I don't, you know, teams aren't intimidated by the venue anymore.
01:08:47
Speaker
They used to be. ah Certainly a team like Seattle who plays on on on artificial turf and and under and plays in an NFL stadium. And it's going to be just like another game for them. And I think they're a confident side because of the fact that they were just...
01:09:04
Speaker
you know, put on display in front of the world in a major tournament and they had to perform. Atlanta hasn't had that type of pressure in years.
01:09:14
Speaker
And so, you know, that's just like the the intangibles. But I do think you mentioned it you know, Atlanta has real problems conceding early. They concede after halftime. ah They have had moments at home where they play well.
01:09:30
Speaker
And they play sharp and they they're quick on on the counterattack and they they keep the ball in the opponent's half. And and Ronnie Dela, if you go back to just when he was at Celtic years ago, you know there are blogs that talk about, oh, he's very intense and he and he presses high. And you see that sometimes with Atlanta. you know But other times you're like you're just not sure like what they're trying to do. Dela's had some, I wouldn't call them run-ins, but some...
01:09:59
Speaker
healthy debates with reporters in Atlanta when they ask him like, what is your identity? And he asked, well, haven't you watched the games? And the response do, and we don't know. like um And that's true.
01:10:11
Speaker
And so, you know, that's, that's a big problem because you're going against a team in Seattle that knows who they are. ah And, and, and that's always been a difficult thing to solve ah for Atlanta. Again, to end this, this point, like I was at a game recently when Nashville came to town.
01:10:26
Speaker
i think that was May. And Atlanta was going through a bit of a rut. And so there's there's sort of that pressure on the team. Six minutes in, they score.
01:10:37
Speaker
Miguel Allen scores. Looks like it's going to be a nice afternoon for Atlanta United fans. After they score, instead of what I just mentioned about the history of Ronnie Dela pressing high, you know really being a nuisance for the other team. No, they so they gave the ball to Nashville and just sat back at home.
01:10:55
Speaker
until Nashville scored ah you know an equalizer, and then the game ended 1-1 because it was as if neither team really wanted to win. They just didn't want to lose. And it was just dumbfounding to see a team in Atlanta at home do that. So ah that's something that I think teams in Seattle, I think they will do this. i think Seattle will show up, and they will dictate how the game is going to go. And they just have to weather those moments when Atlanta can threaten. But if they do, then they should manage it pretty well.
01:11:27
Speaker
Well, it's going to be, you know, one of the things that's always been fascinating about Atlanta from the Sounders perspective is sort of how they've rewritten the history books when it comes to attendance.
01:11:38
Speaker
But when you look at the games, it, you know, Sounders fans oftentimes talk about like, oh, well, the our attendance numbers are are made up. You look at all these empty seats. And I was like, i don't know, just look around the league and tell me that's not sort of the norm.
01:11:52
Speaker
But Atlanta, there are some stark games where there's just seas of empty seats. What is the, I mean, is it a is what would you say the atmosphere is like in games right now?
01:12:03
Speaker
And broadly, what's the mood about atlanta because Atlanta United within the community? Because for a long time, it felt like at least from the outside that Atlanta, like, like Seattle, Atlanta United had to sort of breakthrough of being relevant in the general sports conversation, not just like among a group of diehard fans.
01:12:24
Speaker
Yes. And I tell ahlane and I staffers this often, you know, when we, you know, you have conversations in preseason, you're talking about coverage or, you know, you know, what is, what is the athletic, how do they, how are, how are we approaching MLS coverage, et cetera.
01:12:39
Speaker
um And so we've had those conversations and something that I always say is like, as soon as this team starts winning consistently, They become a national story because they're going to have 50,000 people at every game.
01:12:50
Speaker
It's ah one of the loudest stadiums I've ever been at. you know And they there's there there's that hit precedent of like, well, Atlanta has done it before. Are they doing it again? That's a story. Right away, that would be a story if they if they just shoot up the ladder and start playing well and start entertaining. and That just hasn't happened yet.
01:13:08
Speaker
And so because that hasn't happened and we've gone now since 2019, which was the last time they were really competitive. 2019, they lose in the Eastern Conference Final to Toronto at home at Mercedes-Benz Stadium.
01:13:20
Speaker
On the verge of hosting MLS Cup. They would have hosted again. They would have hosted two back-to-back. Right. And that was Frank DeBoer. And I, and I still remember Darren Neal's pointing to that when Frank DeBoer is getting destroyed by everyone, he kept saying this guy was, and you know, a goal away from taking us to a second consecutive, uh, MLS cup, but still it was just like the culture wasn't working. But since then, how would I describe it i think that apathy has set in and and, you know, I run into Atlanta United fans around town often,
01:13:52
Speaker
ah And they are very upset. Some of them are sad. You know, these they are like Atlanta does have, I think, ah of really strong fan base, you know, and it's because the city adopted the team right away. And the city is the demographic of the city is interesting. I think Atlanta think people outside Atlanta think, oh, it's in the south.
01:14:13
Speaker
But Atlanta is such a international city there's people from all over the world that were just hungry to support a team and that really enjoyed way they came out just you know like bats out of hell uh twenty seventeen eighteen and it really caught on but since everything we've discussed has happened coaches come in coaches go out players go in players go out uh the the the fans are starting to realize that ah Maybe I step back and so you guys figure this out.
01:14:43
Speaker
So you've seen empty seats. Like, you know, you see, you know, more fans not renewing their season tickets. Season tickets recently went up. The price went up this this past week.
01:14:54
Speaker
ah There's there's blowback from the fans. ah Yes, you watch games on on where they play in Mercedes-Benz Stadium they're averaging over 40,000, I think, up until 2025.
01:15:05
Speaker
you know i would assume that that number has taken a bit of ah a dent and the in 25. They had 38,000 recently when they lost to Charlotte. It looked like 20,000, but um it
Fan Base and Club Management
01:15:18
Speaker
was 38,000. So there is ah there there are fans that are struggling with the reality Atlanta United, and I think the ah players understand it.
01:15:28
Speaker
ah But it's it's ah it's so noticeable because people so people i say associated Atlanta United with fun, entertainment, loud stadium, full stadium. And that's just not the case anymore.
01:15:46
Speaker
Do you have anything else, Nico? No, man, that that that puts a real point in it because I see it, I can feel it. and You know, there was this almost party atmosphere that that that you could feel when it came to not just the games, but even the the tailgate and all these things that have really decreased over time there in Atlanta.
01:16:09
Speaker
And I also think it's important because, look, if the team's not giving you what you want, or whether it's wins or entertainment or all these things, a way to show that you're not happy with the product this despite not showing up.
01:16:21
Speaker
Yeah. it And so that's something that I feel like Atlanta has kind of missed before. Cause there was always that sense that it's only a matter of time to wear once again on top and that never got there. And sometimes it almost felt like they Atlanta approached the game as if they were this huge jogger or not.
01:16:38
Speaker
And because they, they, they won it so early and they never did again. So I have no doubt or I, I'm very confident that with two guys like Chris and Garth at some point that will come back.
01:16:51
Speaker
I've always told people that I learned from Garth himself that he would tell me that when a GM gets to a club, it takes him three years to get it where that GM wants it. So now that Chris Henderson is there, Starcy and Hutch again, Kobe and Shaq.
01:17:05
Speaker
Those two guys have been amazing in their time together. I've always said that. ah So I have no doubt that in for one or three years, so Chris Anderson will get the club back to where they need to be. Now, if that doesn't happen, then you guys have the new that the new Red Sox of yeah the the United States and that Bambino, Martino. That's a real thing, because if you don't get it with these two guys, then it's going to be a tough, tough moving forward.
01:17:31
Speaker
And Nico used to be, it's not just Martino. They can't escape like the ghost of Martino. But when, before they so re-signed Miguel Almarone, it was, it was the ghost of Miguel Almarone. How do we get a player like that again? The whole league was like, how do we find that guy?
01:17:44
Speaker
You know, like it was as if like Miguel had, had sort of ruined it for everyone because you can't, like he was ah very unique player. You know, obviously now, now Messi's in league. So it's like, you must forget that there was an MLS before Messi.
01:17:58
Speaker
ah But mia Miguel Marrón was like unplayable. Like you just, you could stop him. Like we hadn't seen players like that in this league. And now he comes back and he just, he just has fallen into the same sort of conundrum of of complacency and mediocrity. it's It's sad to see, but I do agree. I think Henderson and Loggerway have everything that they need to, to you know, Jeremiah mentioned that they have they have an ambitious owner, they have the stadium, they have fans.
01:18:25
Speaker
They're going to be able to spend ah But you know Garth has been public in saying that when he got here, these are my own words, but it was a mess. okay like Financially, it was a mess. They had to fix that first, like the contracts and and these the promises they made a to agents and ah the the salary cap. it was just something it was It was something that had to be dealt with from just an accounting standpoint.
01:18:49
Speaker
ah and And it appears that they're in that they're in in a better place now. And so it is almost like you're starting over. um but But I was told you know internally that you know this this was always a bit of a transition year. Now, I think i tend to agree with Jeremiah, though, that coming out of 2024, no one was thinking 25 was going to be a transition year.
01:19:11
Speaker
yeah It was like, this going to a little convenient call it a transition year now. Agree, agree. I agree. And like, and and perhaps like to Chris Henderson's, you know, giving them the benefit of the doubt, like, you know, not every player on the roster is is his type of signing, you know, bo Carlos Bocanegra had a lot of say and a lot of sway and a lot of influence at that club that I still think they're, they're managing to, to sort of to pull away from.
01:19:39
Speaker
ah um mentioned recruiting and scouting. So Yeah, it's it's it's it's a heavy lift. It's a heavy lift. that that And in in the meantime, the games keep coming and the results keep getting more and more disappointing. So it's you know something's got to give at some point.
01:19:56
Speaker
Well, I want to let you get out of here soon. i I can hear chatter of children. And so I want to be sensitive to a fellow parent, but I did want to get you just a little, I feel like I would be, I feel really bad if I didn't at least ask, ah do you have any updates on how Garth is doing?
01:20:12
Speaker
He's obviously a player that a lot of us know well, and we're very sad to hear the news about, but what what have you heard about that his situation? Well, what I can say in having conversations with people that ah are are are close to Garth is that he's he's doing well.
01:20:30
Speaker
you know This has been this is really a really tough news for for him and his family, obviously for for Atlanta. ah Just the community of Atlanta United took it really, really hard.
01:20:41
Speaker
ah But from what I've been told is that you know despite... him going through you know any cancer patient that goes through chemotherapy, is is it's really, really difficult.
01:20:54
Speaker
considering everything that, uh, that this, that, that, that he's facing, it seems to be going well. So
Rivalry and Social Media Presence
01:21:02
Speaker
that's positive. I think in, in, in, when you think about the diagnosis and, and, and what he, uh, what he said publicly in his statement that, know, he had to make a decision to, to, to take care of himself and, and, and leave what I think is, was his dream job. And so, um, you know, certainly,
01:21:22
Speaker
Certainly a tough one, I think for MLS in general, just considering Garth's history, his his the legacy he already established. But think the good news is is that all things considered, you know so I've heard some positive things.
01:21:36
Speaker
Well, that's good to hear. I know we're all rooting for Garth. I did appreciate the way that he signed off on his his press for his official press f release, which was, I will be back, I believe was what it was. i shall return. or yeah I shall return, which was such a classic Garth line.
01:21:54
Speaker
ah such a Or I should say a a classic Garth phrasing. Always sort of a... He always has a ah sense of the showmanship. Showmanship. Exactly. Yeah.
01:22:04
Speaker
Well, no, i've that's what ah from people have spoken to you know quickly is that he's the one make cracking jokes still, you know? Right. I believe it. You, I know you guys know him well, you're probably not surprised. No, no, I'm not surprised at all. That doesn't, that doesn't surprise me. And so um that's, that's good to hear that, ah that this is not, but this is the outside perception is still this way. But anyway, ah Felipe, thank you so much for doing this. It was great getting to meet you and, and you provided some great context for this.
01:22:34
Speaker
ah And obviously no idea what's going to go on tomorrow, but it's always be. I mean, it's it's funny. the i feel like for two teams that have not played a ton, there is a lot of mutual interest between yeah our fan bases.
01:22:48
Speaker
So this is ah this is always good. I think Seattle will get the result. I really do. Maybe it's a game that we don't expect though. You know, that that's always a possibility when, when, when Atlanta United is is on the field and ah we we've mentioned the talent that they have, if they put it together when it matters, you know, they can, they can pull something out. But I think Seattle, like I said, they have everything going for them to walk out of Atlanta with three points and, you know, can so continue to be,
01:23:16
Speaker
a team that I think they view, you know, going into leaks cup and then the summer and, you know, can Seattle get back, you know, can they get back, ah you know, and really challenged, not just in the West, but, you know be a team that you don't want to face in the, in the playoffs. So doesn't, it doesn't begin and end in Atlanta, but yeah I agree with you, Jeremiah, that like these, whenever they play, there's, there's a bit of, there' there's, there's more interest than, than usual.
01:23:43
Speaker
Yeah. yeahing Random. Yeah. Two teams that like, yeah, they just don't have a lot of direct shared history, but yet there's this shared sense of ah almost rivalry. in and I mean, I know when, when see it, when Atlanta was first came into the league, they kind of were talking about, Oh yeah, we're going we We look at the Sounders as are aspirational. they and They did. They did. yeah I mean, Darren Eels is very public. But anyway, Felipe, thank you for for doing this again.
01:24:12
Speaker
ah you can obviously read Felipe at The Athletic. You can follow him on. on where where Where is the best place to follow you on social media? ah You know, probably ah Twitter or X, whatever you want to call it, at Felipe Carr. I'm on Instagram. I think my my Instagram is Felipe underscore Cardenas underscore SCCR.
01:24:32
Speaker
And ah that's, it's always good follow because I'm not always just breaking news or talking about things. Like I sort of have ah a bit more of a, and ah there's a bit more, the fan side of me comes out a little bit more on Instagram.
01:24:46
Speaker
Um, and I think it's like, i think if, if you, if you don't want to live on X, uh, go to Instagram and and follow my story, follow my stories, follow my reporting there. I'll, I'll, I'll try to entertain you. Trust me.
01:24:58
Speaker
Where else can they find you? Anywhere else that you put, uh, that you write, aside from the athletic and work anywhere else? No, I mean, obviously I'm, ah I do, uh, I'm a correspondent with CBS, uh, uh, Glossal network. So I'm, I'm, I'm occasionally there weekly talking, whether it's South American football or MLS or messy or whatever it may be.
01:25:22
Speaker
I'm typically there, you know, doing some TV with them as well. So, um, I think the TV side is interesting because I will bring the reporting that I put in writing. And sometimes you can elaborate a little bit more in in that sense. So, um so yeah, check out Glossal Network. I'm on Blue Sky. If Blue Sky is your thing, I'm on Blue Sky as well. Look for me there. And and that's a platform that I'm trying to ah build out as well. So the more follows, the better.
01:25:50
Speaker
It's tough. It's hard. Believe me, I'm having a hard time with myself, man. so man But Felipe, man, you're a friend. and own par um paano You're a colleague that, you know, admired the way you handle your business. ah Tough when you need to be. I know that i I try to do a lot of that here in Seattle, man. So i appreciate you being on with us, man. I really do.
01:26:08
Speaker
A real pleasure. Honestly, like what a great pod Seattle Sounders at heart is, is I think it's one of the top, top, top brands and in, in, in podcast MLS universe. So like I'm, I'm honored to be on. Thank you so much guys.
01:26:22
Speaker
Well, thank you. all right. Well, we're going to get out of here. I'm Jeremiah Chan signing off for Nico Moreno. This is Sounder at Heart. Or this is a No Sadietes part of the Sounder Heart podcast network. And we will catch you next time.
01:27:00
Speaker
I expect the LAFC who is motivated ah to prove themselves at home, to prove to their fans that they' they're capable of winning in this league. And it's up to us to really ruin the party.
01:27:16
Speaker
i feel a lot better than