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E137: An Interview with Terry Hobbs: Stevie Branch, Christopher Byers, and Michael Moore Part 3
3.9k Plays3 years ago
May 5th, 1993 was a tragic day for so many people in West Memphis Arkansas as three eight-year-old boys (Stevie Branch, Christopher Byers, and Michael Moore) went missing . By the next morning, instead of panic, the town felt palpable fear with the discover that the young second-graders had been brutally and senselessly murdered. By 1994, three local teens were in prison, convicted of the murders; but the story hasn’t ended there. This is part 3 of our series in which we examine the trials and convictions as well as explore various theories concerning who might be the perpetrator(s). In this week’s episode, we speak with Terry Hobbs, step-father of Stevie Branch, who is currently the focus of guilt in the court of public opinion.
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Transcript
Introduction and Sponsorship
00:00:00
Speaker
We are excited to announce that this episode is being sponsored by Zencaster, our very own podcast recording platform. Make sure you listen for more information in the middle of the episode and in the show notes to hear exactly why we love Zencaster so much and how you yourself can get a discount.
Interview with Terry Hobbs Overview
00:00:20
Speaker
Hello, sleuth hounds, Allison here. Our episode this week is taking a slightly different format. What follows is the recording of my interview with Terry Hobbs, stepfather of Stevie Branch, one of the three victims at the center of our past two episodes, covering the murders of Stevie Branch, Christopher Briers, and Michael Moore, and the puzzle of who might truly have been responsible for their deaths.
00:00:48
Speaker
Terry Hobbs asked that I include our entire interview uncut. I have honored his wishes, save for the short advertisement in the middle of the episode. Here is our interview.
Introducing the Hosts
00:01:37
Speaker
Welcome to Coffee and Cases where we like our coffee hot and our cases cold. My name is Allison Williams. And my name is Maggie Dameron.
00:01:46
Speaker
We will be telling stories each week in the hopes that someone out there with any information concerning the cases will take those tips to law enforcement. So justice and closure can be brought to these families. With each case, we encourage you to continue in the conversation on our Facebook page, Coffee and Cases podcast, because as we all know, conversation helps to keep the missing person in the public consciousness, helping keep their memories alive.
Terry's Memories of Stevie Branch
00:02:10
Speaker
So sit back, sip your coffee, and listen to what's brewing this week.
00:02:15
Speaker
Terry, I think I'd like to start our interview the way I do with all the interviews that I do. And that is by asking you to recall your favorite memory with the family member that you've lost. So can you tell me your favorite memory of Stevie? Well, I have had a lot of good memories. I have a lot of good photos with Stevie.
00:02:39
Speaker
and the family. And one of the good memories I had was when he wanted a spy care cut. He thought that was the best thing going, you know, and the barber did too because he had a good time with him. And, you know, he was blonde hair, blue eyes. So and the spy care cut really just set him off. You know, he thought he was a heartbreaker.
00:03:05
Speaker
Oh, okay. Right. The eight-year-old heartbreaker. Yeah, he would have been, but he'd look cool with his spiked haircut. So how old was Stevie when you and Pam met? Oh, one and a half year old. Okay, so he was pretty young. Did he take to you right away? Was he shy at first? Yeah. No, we bonded from day one and just had a good time.
00:03:33
Speaker
Now I read something about, you gave him the nickname, was it frog legs? Correct. Yeah. How did that come about? Well, he jumped off in a 80 foot of water and he didn't know how to swim. Oh no. So when I sent him bail off in that water, I took off after him, you know, right behind him. And I get down there to, and I could see him
00:03:59
Speaker
And he was, he kind of looked like a frog kicking his legs trying to go up. And I just put my hand on his bottom, you know, and just pushed him up to the top and got him to safety. But it's the way he was swimming underwater that's where the name frog legs come from. It was kind of funny, but it was, you know, at the time, I didn't know what to think other than I knew he didn't know how to swim. Right. Yeah. You went into panic mode.
00:04:29
Speaker
Exactly. And then you and Pam welcomed your daughter, Amanda, into the world. Were she and Stevie close? Or was the age difference? Yeah, she was kind of close to him. You know, she's four years younger than he was, but that was brothers and sisters. What did Stevie like to do in his spare time?
00:04:57
Speaker
Well, he liked riding bicycles. And he had a go-kart. He liked riding a go-kart. And as a family, we enjoyed camping. So we'd done a lot of camping over the years. Did he play a lot when he rode his bike with his friends? Like, who were his closest friends? Well, in West Memphis, that's where he went to his first school.
00:05:27
Speaker
I think it was a boy named George and then Mike and Christopher and probably some other ones I didn't really know, but them was the ones that come around the home a lot. So when he would ride his bike, because obviously the boys were riding their bikes on May 5th, would he typically ride kind of all around town to his friend's houses? Did he usually stay in the general vicinity of your house or
00:05:59
Speaker
Well, I guess you could, if that would depend on who was home, letting him go ride his bicycle. Oh, okay. If I was home, I would just tell him, you know, you stay up here around the house, you know, right down the street where we can see you. Now this day that May the 5th, I was at work and Pam just laid him right over to Michael's house, you know, and
00:06:25
Speaker
That's how that began. Did Michael live far away or was it pretty close? Probably a half a mile. It was, you know, in the neighborhood. So you have to go down different streets to get there. But you guys were pretty close with the Moore family. No ma'am. Oh, no, you were not.
00:06:45
Speaker
No, we didn't know them. Okay. I think Todd was the Cub Scout leader and that's how we met Todd, but we never did go to their homes. You know, we didn't really know them. Okay. You just kind of knew Michael from him coming over to play with Stevie? Yes, correct. Okay. And then the Byers family, you hadn't met them until May 5th either, right? Correct. And I think I might've met Mark.
00:07:12
Speaker
Uh, one time when he brought Christopher to Cub Scouts, but you know, I vaguely remember that, but it seemed like I didn't meet him there, but I didn't know him either. So you were just kind of familiar with the kids. Did, did Michael's sister Dawn, did she ever come over with them too? I think I read that Stevie maybe had a crush on her or something.
00:07:36
Speaker
No, I think Don had a crush on him. Oh, okay. And he probably did too, but yeah, I think they kind of liked each other maybe. So in terms of May 5th, and I'm sure a lot of it is probably etched in your mind, but I also realize I'm asking you this nearly 30 years later, you know, we're past the 29 year mark, but what do you remember happening that afternoon or
00:08:05
Speaker
hearing from Pam that happened before you got home? Well, I think Pam told me, you know, when I came home, Stevie wasn't home.
The Day Stevie Disappeared
00:08:18
Speaker
So I, you know, I always checked on the kids and I asked her, where's Stevie and Amanda? Amanda's in his room playing video games, I believe. And
00:08:27
Speaker
Uh, Steve is gone riding her bike, his bicycle. And you know, so I look around outside and I don't see him and she's, you know, mentioning that he rode over to Michael Moore's house. You know, that's something I would not do, let happen. But you know, she said that they'd been squabbling and he just kept on wanting to go ride his bicycle. And she finally give in and let him go ride.
00:09:00
Speaker
So then you get home, and I know I read she had to go to work, right? And you guys, you were expecting Stevie home for dinner before that? We was expecting him home around 4.30. That's why she said she told him to be home at 4.30. Was he usually pretty good about getting home on time? Well, yeah, because, you know,
00:09:29
Speaker
We would tell them if you're outside, you know, if we're not outside, you know, stay up here. I would tell them stay up here around the home where we could see you or, you know, as it start getting dark, you know, come in. So, you know, he just didn't show back up on May the 5th. And we, you know, you just go from there. Right. I know you said in your book, I think it was in your book that you said,
00:09:57
Speaker
You didn't really grow extremely concerned about Stevie until it started getting dark because it wasn't like him to stay out after dark. But were you worried at all before that or were you just, I mean, what was going through your head? Well, what was going through my head, I was just a parent, you know, and when your kids are not home, you go into this mode of let's go find them.
00:10:25
Speaker
So I take Pam to work and me and Amanda ride around and look for him. And we parked the car at one point and walked around in case we could hear him in someone's backyard playing. And then Dana Moore comes over to the house, her and Don.
00:10:46
Speaker
You know, we're looking for both of them. We didn't know these all three together at that point, but that's what we do. You go into the list, find the kids. And that's what we was trying to do. So did you just kind of, at first, did you focus on the area between your house and the Moore's house, or did you just kind of drive around all over? I focused on our neighborhood. Okay.
00:11:16
Speaker
at the beginning of this. And then at some point, I guess you had gone over to, and I think I read he was your coworker to David Jacobi's house just to get some help or was that to drop Amanda off?
00:11:35
Speaker
I went over to see if David would go help me right around and look for Stevie. I have Amanda with me and she's just four years old so I didn't want her out there riding around with me and looking
00:11:50
Speaker
for Stevie so I took her over to David and Bobby's house and they had a couple of little children and she stayed there and played with them and then David went riding around looking for him. Now this is when we went all over town you know you picture two boys on bicycles just going up down every street in town so that's what we pictured you know so we went up down every street we could find looking for them.
00:12:21
Speaker
So when, when did you, I guess, realize that this was something that, you know, maybe you weren't going to find them and you needed to contact the police? Cause I know, um, I guess the mores, they didn't file a report until later as well. So was it really when he hadn't shown back up when you needed to go pick up Pam?
00:12:49
Speaker
because I know that's one criticism, right? That people lay on you as, you know, why didn't you file a missing persons report for Stevie until, or call the police until you had picked Pam up? Well, what I have put out there, and this did happen when me and Linda went to the Dana Moore's home and to see if they was there when Mark Byers come over, when I first met him in her front yard,
00:13:19
Speaker
you know, we didn't have cell phones. So Dana says, I'm going to go in and call the police and Mark said he was going to do the same. So here I am standing in Dana's front yard in Amanda. And I asked Amanda, I mean, I asked Dana, I said, would you also let the police know that Stevie is with them and he's not home either. And she says she would.
00:13:47
Speaker
And people, I don't know how come they don't understand that, but that did happen. So in your head, you're saying you were thinking, well, I've already reported it because I told Dana to tell the police. Correct. Now, I know that recently
00:14:10
Speaker
in the Bob Ruff podcast Truth and Justice. He had interviewed Dawn Moore and she said that she had seen the boys go into Robin Hood Woods and that she had told her mom that. So did you hear from them or what led you to eventually go looking in Robin Hood Woods?
00:14:34
Speaker
Well, as we was stopping and asking, you know, anybody, anybody random, you know, they'd seen three little boys on her. Well, we finally figured out they was all three together. So we're asking people, do you see three boys and, you know, on bicycles and, you know, and finally some young, some older man said that he's seen some kids going into the woods.
00:15:01
Speaker
You know, so we didn't know anything about the woods until then. And we didn't know that kids played out there in the woods. We didn't even know the woods was called Robin Hood Hills. I didn't know nothing about them woods until the older man said, yeah, I think I remember seeing some kids go out in the woods. You know, I don't know what time that was.
00:15:27
Speaker
But it was, you know, when David and I was out walking or riding around, stopping and just asking people, we'd go to convenience stores and we'd stop and we'd see somebody walking on the side of the road. We'd stop and ask them, you know, it's a little neighborhood. So they're walking on the sidewalks. So until then, you know, we didn't even think about that we just figured days of riding a bicycle down the street somewhere.
00:15:57
Speaker
So you guys, I guess, when did you, had you already picked Pam up from work and she changed clothes and everything before you guys actually went to look in Robin Hood Hills yourselves? And that's when you came across the law enforcement officer who mentioned the mosquitoes? Well, there was an officer, when I picked Pam up, we called from her work and Officer Moore come up there and made a police report.
00:16:26
Speaker
And so we went from, I believe, from Catfish Island over to, you know, where there was Robin Hood Woods and there was Regina Mates out there coming out of the woods. And she said it was just, you know, a lot of mosquitoes and this growed up so high you can't hardly walk out there. Mosquitoes was really bad and it was hot.
00:16:57
Speaker
So that's where we met her at that night. So, and I was going to ask you, so you said you'd never even heard of these woods before or any rumors about them? Didn't know a thing about them. I didn't know the kids went out there and played. I never knew there was a place out there where they got in the water. I didn't know this.
00:17:22
Speaker
And I didn't know there was trails out there. I never heard of Robin Hood Hills. And until we actually went out there to see what was out there. Yeah. I know in that statement that Dawn Moore had made, she said that that Michael mentioned to her having a hideout or something in the woods. So I'm guessing if Stevie knew about it, he'd never mentioned it.
00:17:50
Speaker
He never mentioned it to us. I never heard, I never even heard that statement. And then I guess there's been some speculation that there could potentially have been at least initially a lot of the eyewitness accounts. There was a fourth boy who was with Stevie and Michael and Chris.
00:18:15
Speaker
But if so, do you have any idea who that might have been? Was there anyone else who normally hung out with them or rode bikes with them? Well, I don't know about all that, but George, just a little boy called George, he was a friend of them little boys. And I don't know if he was with them that day. I don't know anything about that. I never seen him probably that day.
00:18:44
Speaker
And so when you got home from work, you, you didn't see Stevie at all. So the last time you saw him was before you went to work. Nope. Made a force. Wow. I know you talk in your book pretty extensively about the psychological toll.
00:19:11
Speaker
that the deaths of Stevie, Michael, and Christopher took on your family, on the Moore family, on the Byers family. How would you describe the toll that it took? I know you describe it on yourself in your book, but what about the toll it took on Pam? Oh, it was devastation, as high as you could number it. And it was sad.
00:19:39
Speaker
you know, to see any parent lose a child like this and to see what your spouse goes through. It was heartbreaking. It was devastation all the way. And I don't know how to explain it, you know, other than I just couldn't believe, you know, what I was seeing her go through.
00:20:06
Speaker
and my daughter and her family. I mean, it just devastated everybody. And I'm just speaking for our family. And I could imagine, probably cannot imagine what it done to the other families, but I know what it done to our family. And it tears your part. Statistics have it 98% of families that deal with murdered children end up in divorces.
00:20:36
Speaker
You know, when we heard this, we heard this early on in this, and I didn't want to be a statistic. And, you know, Pam and I talked about it, you know, but somehow, you know, it just didn't work. Do you think you or Pam or both of you kind of became obsessed with finding answers or
00:21:05
Speaker
Was that part of it or was it just dealing with the loss? Well, dealing with the loss is something that you learn. You know, once, once you're in that position, we didn't know, you know, you don't prepare, people don't prepare theirself for a loss like this. And it's just like you're tossed out into a world of your own and you have to find your own way through it.
00:21:36
Speaker
And that's what I seen. And it was seriously, it was a devastating as it could get. So I want to go ahead and be upfront with you because you are in your book as well. Um, and I know that's one thing you've, you mentioned is that you want it to be open. Um, and I know you mentioned that there were several instances
00:22:06
Speaker
After Stevie's death, you say because of that pain, because of the anger of not having your child there, that both you and Pam were violent with one another.
Family Struggles and Police Confidence
00:22:22
Speaker
Well, more verbally than anything. We probably had one physical altercation, a whole marriage. But more verbally, violent than anything.
00:22:36
Speaker
Pam blamed herself, you know, and as I would try to tell her, Pam, this is not your fault. And she blamed herself because she let him go ride his bicycle. And you try to explain to her, this is not your fault. And it didn't matter what you said, it was wrong. And you're trying, I'm trying to comfort, trying to help her our fault.
00:23:03
Speaker
By telling her, this is not your fault. Any child should be able to go out, ride their bicycles and come home. But she couldn't accept that. Maybe some denial, maybe a lot of denial, a lot of anger, a lot of grief, a lot of shock. Every bit of that stuff. They say there's seven stages of grief and I'll tell you what, I had seen it and lived in depression.
00:23:33
Speaker
tears you up. You know, your book also made it sound like what you wrote in it that you tried to exit the relationship several times. But you had said in there that
00:23:51
Speaker
Pam would reach back out to you and you'd end up returning the phone call or agreeing to visit and then you guys would get back together and break up many times. Why do you think there was such a strong pull still between the two of you? Cause I loved her. I loved Pam. Pam was, you know, she was okay in my book and that's why I married her. I just fell in love with her.
00:24:16
Speaker
She was just a good girl when I married her, a good lady. A lot of this breaking up that we did was because of other people from outsiders who was trying to fix her and trying to tell us how to do things.
00:24:42
Speaker
in your struggle, in your journey. You're not looking for, how do I do this? You're trying to survive. And that's what we was trying to do. But there was several times I would just leave. I couldn't handle it. I couldn't handle seeing her put herself through this. And I couldn't handle seeing her put me and my daughter through this, Amanda.
00:25:09
Speaker
And I couldn't handle a lot of things that I thought I should be able to handle, you know? And after the whole time, you're learning in the learning mode, you know, to do and what not to do. Because it's like you're on pins and needles. So when did you and Pam first hear about Eccles, Baldwin and Miss Kelly?
00:25:41
Speaker
We had moved to Bible Arkansas after, you know, after this all happened. We lived in West Memphis, and so maybe a month or two, we moved to Bible, and that's where we buried Stevie at. Well, we get a phone call from the West Memphis Police Department telling us that there was going to arraign three young teenagers in court and give us a date and let us know when and, you know, so we could be there.
00:26:13
Speaker
And you've claimed that law enforcement really presented the case as one with sufficient evidence to convict Eccles, Baldwin and Miss Kelly. Did they ever explain to you why they were so convinced or any of the specifics? No, but I'll say this. They did tell us that at some point down the road that we may want to know
00:26:43
Speaker
Why? And all these questions that we didn't know, and that they would be willing to sit down with us and explain this to us. But I don't think we've ever got to that point. You know, it's all over the world. It's all over the local and national medias, you know, and but we've never sat down with them and heard their
00:27:11
Speaker
you know, conversation about it. I'm not going to say, I will say that I'm not sure I would want to. To know. Correct. Yeah. Yeah. You stated in your book of, and I can only imagine sitting in that trial, but you said, quote, it amazed us. The three teenagers appeared to be enjoying the attention.
00:27:38
Speaker
blowing kisses towards the parents and being obnoxious in their actions," end quote. But obviously, I watched the Paradise Lost films and those depicted, especially Miss Kelly, never looking up, James Baldwin as extremely meek. So that comment seems in direct contrast to how they were depicted in that film. What specific actions are you referring to or do you recall that shocked you at the time?
00:28:07
Speaker
Well, Damien Eccles sitting there blowing kisses to the parents. Damien Eccles giving people the finger, you know, and smiling just like, you know, he's on a on a showcase or something, you know, and nothing serious out of that young man. I know ball would never or hardly ever looked up and I know Miss Kelly never did look up. You know, I know that.
00:28:35
Speaker
But the way, you know, Eccles acted, he just acted like he was a parade or something.
Podcasting Challenges and Zencaster Praise
00:28:47
Speaker
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00:29:06
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00:30:41
Speaker
And then you've said before, obviously, the media has a lot of power and that in the court of public opinion,
00:30:53
Speaker
Blame has been shifted from those three who are called the West Memphis three, um, from their guilt to a belief in their innocence.
Public Opinion and Legal Pressure
00:31:03
Speaker
But do you still believe that those three are guilty or do you kind of feel, cause I know now, you know, with, with the court of public opinion now putting blame on
00:31:19
Speaker
you as you mentioned in your book and you said you feel like the mob mentality has been turned to you, do you think that there's a chance even with them that they were seen as guilty regardless of the evidence or are you still convinced of their guilt? Well, the media does have a lot of power
00:31:41
Speaker
But the media doesn't run nothing. You know, this is a real case. It's like any other cases, you know, they'll take someone guilty and make them look like they're just as innocent as they can do. That's what they are all about. And that's what they've done in our case. So do I still think that these guys are guilty? Yes, ma'am, I do.
00:32:08
Speaker
And has they shifted it from one to the other? Yeah, they've shifted it from them. They targeted Mark Bowers for years. And now they've targeted me for years. So when I see this,
00:32:30
Speaker
and of course it causes some problems. I get death threats, I get hate mail like you wouldn't believe, but it doesn't change the facts of the case, in my opinion, that they're guilty. Anything and everything that's been done since has never proved anything leading to their innocence. They're the ones who pled guilty to it, not me.
00:33:00
Speaker
You know, and Mark did not either, but they have, you know, they shift the blame away from them, make them look like they're, you know, something that they're not when they had, when they signed the dotted line saying that they were guilty. What else does people need? So you're thinking to the, the Alford plea. Right.
00:33:28
Speaker
People, they want to pick the Alfred plea apart, but the Alfred plea says you can maintain your innocence, but you know, you're pleading guilty because, because they acknowledge the state has sufficient evidence to convict them on a retrial. So in your mind, you're thinking if they had the evidence that they're saying that they have to prove their innocence, in your mind, they wouldn't have taken the Alfred plea.
00:33:58
Speaker
Well, if you remember, and I don't know if you do or not, but they approached the Arkansas Supreme Court. Prior to that, they was all over the medias everywhere, national, local, claiming they got new evidence that's going on.
00:34:16
Speaker
years. They finally approached the Arkansas Supreme Court with this saying we have new evidence and you know the Arkansas Supreme Court said well if you have new evidence let's just get you a new evidential hearing. So they the Arkansas Supreme Court granted them this hearing
00:34:39
Speaker
And before the hearing gets here where they could show her by all their new evidence, they come up with this outward plea and plead guilty. Now, in my opinion, they knew they was lying to everybody out here when they was out here claiming new evidence. I knew that. I felt that. And so when they approached the Arkansas Supreme Court, it was a lie.
00:35:05
Speaker
So if you have new evidence, why are you going to turn around and plead guilty? So what were you thinking then when at first the attention turned to John Mark Byers as the perpetrator? I knew that was wrong, as wrong could be. You know, because on the night of May the 5th, we're out there as parents.
00:35:33
Speaker
You know, and that's the night I met him, but, you know, we seen him and his wife out there riding around looking for kids. We walked around in the woods looking for kids with him. And, you know, we didn't know what we was doing out there in the woods. We just out there in the woods looking for kids because somebody said the same kids go in the woods. Do you feel like after
00:36:02
Speaker
the public kind of left him as the new focus and shifted to you that you've gotten the same support from him that you gave or from the Moors? The Moors had showed their support. Mark never did. Mark jumped on their bandwagon on Eccles side, had lunch with them and just hugged up to him, hugged all over him.
00:36:31
Speaker
And so did Pam. But no, the Moores have maintained, in my opinion, their integrity, just like I have. And I'll say this, I had somebody ask me yesterday, do you think the three boys did this? And you know what I've told them? This is yesterday.
00:36:57
Speaker
I said, if I did not think they'd done it, I would tell it to the whole world. But everything that I have seen since hasn't led me to believe it. So why do you think, why do you think Pam was so quick to turn on you? I have rejection. Be honest about it. Pam asked me after I divorced her,
00:37:27
Speaker
She wanted me to remarry her. You know, a couple years later and I told her no. You know, and she just didn't know how to accept that. You know, I just at the time I couldn't remarry her. You know, cause she's already been out there and hated on me like you wouldn't believe it. You know, and I didn't want back in it. Did her family
00:37:57
Speaker
Is that when they kind of shifted as well in their sentiment toward you? Were they supportive of both you and Pam at first? And then I guess when did that shift happen? Because it seems like her family seems convinced that you had something to do with the murders as well. All of her family never thought like that. Now her dad and mom, when her dad was alive, he was a good man.
00:38:27
Speaker
he would tell you real quick, leave Terry alone. You know, it was a bunch of girls, you know, they had five girls and not all of the girls did that, but just certain ones of the girls that would, you know, that didn't like me because whatever reason, and they just started making up things. Now, if you'll notice in the book,
00:38:56
Speaker
And I had to answer a lot of these dumb questions in that Dixie Chicks deposition that I did when I sued the Dixie Chicks. That whole stack of questions I had to answer come from some of Pam's sisters. And I answered them every one truthful. And then at the end of my deposition, I laid my hand on it. It was a big stack of papers.
00:39:24
Speaker
And I told him, I said, this whole stack is nothing but a bunch of crap. Okay. Now, if you'll notice in the book, one of the sisters called me up, two of them did, but you know, one called and the other one was sitting there. And the one that is in the book, I put her in the book as apologizing for what she has said over the years. It's in the book.
00:39:53
Speaker
Which sister was that one? Judy, the youngest one. Okay. But then the others haven't. There's only been one other. I think there's two others, but one of them is, you know, she's trying to take control of Pam's life because Pam is still struggling with a lot of things.
00:40:17
Speaker
even today, but she's got one sister and her name's Jo Lynn that, you know, she's done a lot of wrong, done lots of people, especially in this case. And she's the one trying to take over Pam's life and control of Pam. And she's the one that gets out here and tries to cause me every headache that she can.
00:40:43
Speaker
She's the one who said that she had seen you washing clothes that night. I think it was her. She lived 80 miles from me. She was nowhere around our home the night that she claimed she's seen us washing clothes. We didn't do that. That never happened.
00:41:09
Speaker
And it seems like, I don't know if, if she was the one also, um, to ask for the, the partial dentures and the pocket knives and things like that. I mean, obviously there are a lot of people who hang on to the fact that it was either Pam or Pam sister who said that Stevie always carried that certain pocket knife with him, but she found it along with all of your knives. Yeah, they sure did.
00:41:40
Speaker
Yeah. And I wasn't going to let an eight year old carry around a pocket knife, you know, at the time. And to me, he just wasn't old enough. So I took it and put it in with all of my pocket knives. And that's where it stayed until they found it. It wasn't missing. It was it was right there the whole time. But they make a big deal out of stuff like that just because they can.
00:42:07
Speaker
There's nothing to it. Any parent is not going to let their child carry a pocket knife at eight years old. I was no different. I didn't want him to carry a pocket knife and you never know what happened. And I feel like the biggest shift against you or claiming that you had something to do with it was really around 2007.
00:42:38
Speaker
Um, with the hair that was quote unquote, not inconsistent with your own that was found in, in one of the knots. Um, is that really when you felt the tide turning against you? Sure. Well in 2006.
00:42:54
Speaker
late 2006, early 2007, I was, I kept noticing things and people around me. And it was when I finally figured out who it was, it was the defense investigators. You know, I've had people from all around the country, all around the world come to my home, my place of business, and are not my place of business, my place of work.
00:43:23
Speaker
and bring their theories, anything that they can, other people's ideas and all this to me. I've run several laws saying, if you have anything to add to this, take away, take it to the police department. Talk to them about it. But it was in 2006 and 2007 that when I
00:43:53
Speaker
you know, when I started noticing, you know, all these different things. So I go down, talk to the Ron Lacks, the investigator for the echos or the defense. And, you know, what do you want with me, Ron Lacks? I want your DNA. I'm sorry. You know, we didn't have a good conversation, you know, but
00:44:17
Speaker
He threw a cup at me or glass at me. I threw it back and that's probably where he got my fingerprints, but he told me on my way out the door. You know, he's going to sick the dogs on me. And I said, sick him. You know, and you know, and I don't understand that. You know, I was just a family dad. You know, and I didn't play. I was a working man. I thought I ever done work and come home.
00:44:47
Speaker
and take care of my family. And, but it was in 2007 when my name hit the airways, I was attending a victims to victory, uh, grief share group. When my name hit the airways as you know, and all this comes from the defense and the media. So victims to victory sent me a letter because they didn't know.
00:45:14
Speaker
And they sent me a letter asking me not to come back to grief-shared classes because of this. Yeah, kind of low down. Move on both parts. Parties, if you will. So here I am, asking for help, going to these classes. And next thing you know, you get asked not to come back because of the show or circus
00:45:44
Speaker
that the defense puts on and it's happened to me. Do you think the biggest I guess piece of or example that they had was the hair that they did they just keep focusing on it? There was no there probably wasn't even a hair if it was and it probably wasn't even mine.
00:46:10
Speaker
And I don't know, and I don't care. It doesn't mean nothing to me. So you said in your book that you had already given law enforcement fingerprints, footprints, palm prints, and you said that your friend David Jacobi had as well. He had gotten a letter back from the state
00:46:33
Speaker
saying that he had been cleared. And you'd mentioned that you'd never received a letter, but you weren't really worried about it. You said, let me see here, you said, quote, I already know I'm clear and I didn't need a paper to tell me that, end quote. Do you think you would ever consider requesting such a paper to clear your name in the court of public opinion? I mean, do you think if you had a letter from them, it might stop some or if not all of the speculation?
00:47:02
Speaker
Well, first of all, I can't control how people think. And I may have had a letter mailed to me, but we had moved around and there was so much happened over the years. I might've got a letter and didn't even know it. So I don't really, like I said in the book, I don't need a letter.
00:47:25
Speaker
you know, and I don't have to prove myself to nobody, especially the other side of this case. I did everything that I was required to do and it was asked to do by the police department. And matter of fact, I have a statement from the police department that when they put out in the commercial appeal newspaper, a big newspaper in Memphis that said that Mr. Hobbs was not a suspect in 1993,
00:47:55
Speaker
And he's still not one today. And this came out in 2007 as I was being attacked by the other side. So people don't want us to acknowledge that. No, so let them think what they want. I don't care. I'm going to live my life. Yeah, you said in your book, quote, our justice system states that an individual is innocent until proven guilty. I'm being forced to prove my innocence, end quote.
00:48:26
Speaker
And it's kind of sad, ain't it? And as a matter of fact, I really don't have to talk to nobody. You know, I do this because it's something I want people to know how wrong that that defense team and the other side has started this back in 2007. Here it is 2022. And they still fill my name out there amongst the wolves. You know, and the only reason I do this because I want people to know it's still going on.
00:48:56
Speaker
You know, whatever happened to victims' rights, we don't have any. At the end of your book, you have an interview with your daughter, Amanda, that's included. Was it your cousin, the one who helped you put the book together, who did that interview with her?
00:49:16
Speaker
It was, Vicki. Yeah. So in that interview, Amanda alleges that her involvement in the West of Memphis documentary was the direct result of them continually giving her money, which I know that she is in such a good place now, but at the time,
00:49:35
Speaker
She was using that money to support that past drug addiction. And she said in that interview that was included that she would continue or they would continually ask her the same question in different ways to elicit a slightly different response each time. And she also said that she didn't believe what they said about you, but that she did it for the money. So
00:50:00
Speaker
From your perspective, did that film West of Memphis, did that have a greater impact on you and your reputation than the Paradise Lost films or were they all kind of detrimental? Well, combined together, you know, they was, you know, they kicked on me a lot, you know, and I don't think, I don't really think Paradise Lost singled me out.
00:50:29
Speaker
I haven't seen probably them in 30 years, you know, so I don't really remember. But I think West of Memphis was done because Amanda has some habits and they was taking her to the dealer's home and giving her money to go get her drugs, feed her habits. And they kind of took advantage of her.
00:50:59
Speaker
You know, and she says it herself. You know, these are her words, not mine. And, you know, so that is something I was glad to see her do because what they'd done to her was wrong. Now, let me run this past you. If you remember who made the West of Memphis film, Eccles and Amy Bird. Amy Bird. Well, when Mark Byers,
00:51:27
Speaker
was threatening to kill me. I don't know if you've heard about that. I did not. Modern virus was threatening to kill me when I lived in Memphis three or four years ago. And he had Amy Burr going to the telephone. And he was telling her he's going to kill me. He had her convinced. OK, so they get off the phone, Amy Burr
00:51:55
Speaker
calls the Arkansas State headquarters police headquarters. And makes a report. OK, so you know, I guess she was really worried. The same woman that was hating on me. So she was worried enough that she made that report. So the Arkansas State. Head police headquarters found out that I didn't live in Arkansas, so they passed it on to
00:52:25
Speaker
Homeland Security to find me. Homeland Security found me in Memphis, so they passed it on to Memphis Police Department. So here comes the Memphis Police Department to my home and I'm not there, I'm at work. And they tell my daughter was there and my lady friend was there at the time. They tell her, get a hold of Mr. Hobbs and bring him home.
00:52:50
Speaker
So that they did that and we were escorted downtown by the place in Memphis place. We get downtown and we go up 11 floors up in the building and into a room where there's all kind of detectives, sergeants, lieutenants, anybody you could think of as police up in there. And walk in, sit down, not knowing what is going on.
00:53:18
Speaker
And I finally asked, I said, why am I here and what's going on? Well, there's a death threat against you and mark buyers is the one making this threat. This is all documented. And so we sit down, you know, go through all this for hours and, you know, go back home and they finally find mark buyers.
00:53:47
Speaker
And whatever happened, I'm not sure with that. But I know I'm still here today. Right. But you wouldn't believe what we was put through. And it was the good side of it that put us through this. We weren't treated bad or wrong. You know, they just wanted to deescalate this before it went any further. Well, then, you know, so after 2007 and all of that,
00:54:16
Speaker
Then in 2013, you faced the claims that were made by Billy Wayne Stewart and Benny Guy that they made claims that you and David Jacobi and then two local teens were responsible, that the four of you were
00:54:43
Speaker
smoking pot in the woods or something like that was the information that they relayed to the police. Well, if you remember, I mentioned earlier that I didn't know anything about the woods. I've never been out in them woods, never until May the 5th. So anybody with any of their claims,
00:55:11
Speaker
can, you know, people can say what they want to say. You can't stop that. You know that, you know, you know better and you keep on living. And that's all this stuff that I've heard over the years. I mean, you know, I know better. So and I'm not going to open, I never heard them names until you just now mentioned them.
00:55:33
Speaker
But, you know, and I don't, I didn't know nobody in West Memphis. David and his wife and two kids is the only people we just about knew. So if, if they did say reopen the case and they said, you know what, let's now that, that DNA has progressed
00:55:56
Speaker
you know, obviously it has since 1993. Um, and they say, we're going to re-examine the evidence. You would continue to cooperate. Oh, I don't have no reason to cooperate. I don't care what they do with that evidence. You know, if they open this case, I don't care. Let them do what they feel like they must do. You know, so, and if you're gonna, you know, that's like the, uh,
00:56:25
Speaker
crime con convention that is done. They asked me one of the questions. Would you like to see any of the evidence tested? And I say, oh, if you're going to test it, test it all. Well, at the convention, they edited my comment. And they asked me if I want to see any of the evidence tested. And on this edited version, they had me down and saying, no, don't test none of it.
00:56:56
Speaker
you know, only to paint me in a false light. Okay, so I've always said, ever since all this has come up, you know, don't just test the ligatures like Eccles is wanting. Test it out. Test all that evidence. You know, it don't bother me either way. You know, I'm gonna keep around living, you know, and I can't help what people say and what they do.
00:57:24
Speaker
So you're just wanting to get your side out there and... That's why I did this box full of nightmares.
Terry Hobbs' Book and Reflections
00:57:33
Speaker
It's available on Amazon because no one in the past media related has been fair to me and let me say things without being edited and making me look like the bad person. I'm not the bad person. Never have been.
00:57:53
Speaker
And that's why I've done the book. So if you want to read the book, it's out there. And, you know, people can make their own minds up. But one thing in the book, I'll tell you the truth in the book. So you're willing to do what you can to continue to fight to prove your innocence? No.
00:58:17
Speaker
I know I don't have to fight. I don't have to prove myself to nobody. Read the book and people can see what has been going on. And it's not about me. I didn't do nobody, no wrong. I don't hurt children. And all this stuff out there on the airways, social media, or people that sits behind computers and push them, punch them
00:58:45
Speaker
they want. And some people think this gospel. Well, it's not, you know, but anyway, they still do that. I can't control that. I can't stop that. Is there anything else that you want to add that you want to say to our listeners? Well, you know,
00:59:05
Speaker
I don't know what else to say than, you know, I moved out of the big city. I'm now living in Ozark Mountains. I'm a hillbilly now, which you know that. And as far as the case, you know, whatever happens with a case happens. I don't care.
00:59:23
Speaker
You know, that's the point I'm at today. I have heard and been put through so much junk over the years. I just about could care less. I had the memories of, you know, Stevie. I had the memories of Michael and Chris when they would come around our home and memories that can't, no one can take that away from me.
00:59:47
Speaker
And I do, I think about them a lot, you know, just wonder what life would be like today with them around, you know, but that's not going to happen. So, you know, folks just do it, do what you will with, you know, what people say, but just remember something. There's one up above that knows
01:00:10
Speaker
You know, and I think that one day it's gonna come out and everybody's gonna be busted out for the wrong and you won't see my name in it. I just, you know, sometimes I just like to live, you know, and I never in my life imagined something like this happening.
01:00:34
Speaker
I thought I would get to move down to the big city, live the American dream, move up in these hills during retirement and enjoy it. But for 29 years, it's been that long and it's just been a different life. And I still think there's a purpose for me
01:00:55
Speaker
in all of this somewhere. I think the good Lord's got a purpose for me and I'm starting to realize that, starting to come to that. We are now one week away from when a judge will decide if, when, and how to test further evidence in this case. That decision is scheduled to be made next Thursday, June 23rd.
01:01:22
Speaker
I think it's safe to say that all of us are waiting to hear that decision and are all praying that one day we can finally have some answers.
01:01:34
Speaker
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01:02:04
Speaker
Stay together. Stay safe. We'll see you next week.
01:02:28
Speaker
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