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Episode #57: Data+Women
172 Plays8 years ago
On this week’s episode of The PolicyViz Podcast, I chat with the organizers of the DC chapter of the Data+Women Meetup group, Brittany Fong, Julie Kim, Emily Kund, and Erin Simpler. We talk about the current state of the group, challenges...
The post Episode #57: Data+Women appeared first on PolicyViz.
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Transcript
Introduction and advertisement
00:00:00
Speaker
This episode of the PolicyViz podcast is brought to you by Tableau Software. Tableau helps people see and understand their data. Tableau 10 is the latest version of the company's rapid-fire, easy-to-use visual analytics software. It includes a completely refreshed design, mobile enhancements, new options for preparing, integrating, and connecting to data, and a host of new enterprise capabilities. To learn more, visit tableau.com.
00:00:39
Speaker
Welcome
Meet the organizers of Data Plus Women
00:00:40
Speaker
back to the Policy Vis podcast. I'm your host, John Chwabas. Very exciting episode this week. I am joined by three of the four organizers of the DC chapter of Data Plus Women, a meetup group, an event group, not quite an advocacy group, but advocating for a little bit, for lots of great issues in equality and in technology, in data between men and women. If you don't know,
00:01:04
Speaker
The current gap between men and women's wages now stands at about 79%, so there's still lots of work to do. And I'm very happy to be joined today by, as I said, three of the four organizers, Emily Kuhn, Brittany Fong, Julie Kim, and Aaron Simpler, who is not here, but three. You're so welcome to the show.
00:01:24
Speaker
Thank you. Thank you. So thanks everyone for coming. I want to start by just doing some quick introductions and then we can talk about the group and the work that you're doing. So Emily, do you want to kick us off?
00:01:35
Speaker
Sure. So I'm Allie Anderson. I'm a Pueblo social ambassador as government Pueblo user group co-leader. I've worked in government for 17 years all in STEM and I've got two awesome kiddos. I'm also a data hobbyist. Data hobbyist. I like that. Yeah. I like that. I hope you're putting that on your business card these days. I should.
00:02:00
Speaker
I am Brittany Fong. I am also a Tableau ambassador, and I am the organizer of the DC Tableau user group. I have been using Tableau for about four years now, and a rhythmist organ and consulting, but I'm now in private. And yeah, I really like it, and I think the Tableau community is great.
00:02:27
Speaker
I'm Julie Kim, I'm a technology consultant at Deloitte consulting. I specialize in advanced analytics and data analysis using Tableau and other tools as well. I've been using Tableau for about three, four years.
00:02:44
Speaker
So we're Tableau heavy today, but DC plus women's not about Tableau about something more important, I would argue. So
The origins and growth of Data Plus Women
00:02:54
Speaker
can you tell us a little bit about how the group got started and the motivation and how the four of you got together to lead the project?
00:03:02
Speaker
I can start. So myself, Erin, and Emily, we all met for dinner one day and started talking about the idea a little bit. And then Emily ended up helping out with the Data Plus Women that was at the Tableau conference in 2015. And that's where she really got a handle on what the group was about. And then I don't know, Emily, if you want to talk a little bit about your
00:03:31
Speaker
part of the event. Sure. Yeah, so back in 2014 actually, where a group of us, a group of four or five of us, really got together, self-funded some swag, and worked with Tableau to have a lunchtime meetup to talk about women and data. And that was over lunch. There were about 50 or so people there. There were a couple of guys that attended, which was awesome.
00:03:57
Speaker
And so then we fast forward to 2015 conference and there's over 300 people, there's standing room only, there's a great mix of women and men in the room and just having really rich conversations. I think what was great was that Tableau was so open to provide us support that we needed, so how we ran it or how they ran.
00:04:22
Speaker
the data plus women meet up, which was on the pre-conference schedule.
Activities and focus areas of the DC chapter
00:04:30
Speaker
And I was fortunate enough to be a table host to facilitate some discussions amongst my table needs. And so I think that that's something that we try to replicate in some fashion at a local level.
00:04:44
Speaker
So at the Data15 conference, what were some of the issues that people were talking about? What are some of the things that they were interested in? And of course, I assume those are the issues that you're bringing forward into your group here in DC. Right. So some of the issues, you were just how we perceive women in the workplace. So individual perspectives on whether they viewed men as bosses differently than women supervisors or bosses. And so it was a varied conversation.
00:05:14
Speaker
some guided questions to help facilitate that conversation, but it was really... And what I found interesting, actually, was we kind of went off script from those guided conversations and just really had discussion about what each of us thought, and it was so interesting to me to have an
00:05:33
Speaker
I forget where one of the guys was from at my table, but he was like, well, why wouldn't I want a woman as a manager? You know, they have these characteristics generally speaking and I just, like, why would you not want that? And so it was very interesting to hear just individual perspectives.
00:05:53
Speaker
And I think probably not surprisingly, people in the room were really just, well, let's get out and have a conversation about it and let's do what we can to promote this initiative or these conversations back in our day jobs.
00:06:12
Speaker
So taking that meeting forward then, what are you all doing in the DC chapter? And then I want to sort of get a sense of what's going on in the DC chapter and then take a step back for a minute and talk about whether you see a difference in how men and women sort of perceive themselves and others in the data and tech sector versus perhaps other sectors and whether there's any differences or whether data plus women sort of can be a catch-all for anyone who wants to come in and talk about these gender issues in the workplace.
00:06:40
Speaker
So, but let's start with how you took the meeting at Data15 and 14 and move that into your chapter and what are the sort of events and things you're doing in your chapter?
Structure and impact of the chapter's events
00:06:49
Speaker
I think that. So, for a DC chapter, we actually inaugurated in not in February. And it's a lot like the Pablo conference at DataPlus Woman tables where we are inviting everyone to speak
00:07:02
Speaker
But we have panelists coming over first who speak about their experiences and how gender impacted their profession and also kind of, you know, giving inspiring messages to people who's attending.
00:07:17
Speaker
And after that we have, after panel discussion, we have a small group forming and we have person guiding at each group talking about what are the issues, what are the challenges we're going through and then we just generally more, we just discuss amongst, among ourselves, how can we improve that? What are the issues and how can we overcome these challenges? I was going to say, you know, one of the things that I find
00:07:42
Speaker
Probably one of the best parts of that group discussion is the networking that goes on. You know, in several of those small group discussions that I have sat in on, it's been like, you know, somebody's talking about a challenge that they have. And they're like, oh, well, you should talk to this person over here who does this thing.
00:08:01
Speaker
And so it's making those connections that I think is a really nice benefit to those small group discussions because you can have a little more meaningful conversation in that small group. So for me, that's one of my observations.
00:08:17
Speaker
And so what are the sorts of topics that come up or challenges that come up? Are there specific issues or topics that you sort of hear repeated? Or are they sort of things you've never heard about that are sort of popping up that are new? Or what are the sort of things that you're hearing that people are discussing?
00:08:32
Speaker
So, I think some of the items that I've heard have been, you know, I'm just starting out and I don't really know what to do. Again, a lot of this is, as you mentioned, our group is not all about Pablo, it's about Theta, and so some of it is,
00:08:51
Speaker
I just, what does data mean when we talk about careers in data? What is that? I don't know coding. And so I think part of it is also maybe demystifying or kind of clarifying that definition of what it means to have a career in data. And so that's part of the conversation that we've had. I think one of the biggest themes I've seen is whether that's in our group or in discussion with other leaders of other data plus women meetups,
00:09:20
Speaker
is this idea of thought the confidence gap and that's been something that I think we've talked about in our group and I know that that's been discussed I think in Sydney and also London as well.
00:09:34
Speaker
So it's very interesting that you start to see some of these global themes come out. And then there are just some other topics, you know, because we're based in D.C., I think we have more government workers participating. And so in one of the discussions we've had,
00:09:51
Speaker
conversation threads about how they get promotions in the government in those fields and some of the challenges that people have. And we've had discussions about how you can overcome that or people that you might want to talk to in order to climb that career ladder.
00:10:08
Speaker
So
Career paths and gender confidence gap
00:10:09
Speaker
on the question of data, you mentioned, you know, how do you start in careers in data and what does that entail? You know, what kind of coding or kind of tools do I need to learn? And you mentioned, Emily, that, you know, a lot of folks may have a federal government background. What are the backgrounds or characteristics of people who are attending these meetings? And is it sort of primarily focused on data, jobs, data issues, or is it conversations get broader than that?
00:10:31
Speaker
Yeah, I think that the conversation is much broader and I think that that's one of the reasons why our group is, well, I think it's thriving, but I think that's the primary reason is because we're really trying to touch on more of these soft skills as well as introduce some of the technical aspects as well. There are lots of Meetup groups. If you go on the Meetup app, there's so many of them.
00:10:54
Speaker
And a lot of them are focused on technical skills, whether it's learning Python or R or whatever the case may be. And I think that our group provides a complement to those groups and what they're learning there. And so, you know, whether it's leadership skills or mentoring or just not that we've really delved into this, but negotiating. I mean, some of those other softer skills, how we communicate, how people can perceive us in the workplace, I think a lot of it is awareness.
00:11:19
Speaker
And having that conversation, certainly we had one gentleman who attended, who I don't know that I'll ever forget, who was shocked by the lack of confidence of the women in the room. And you heard this collective gasp.
00:11:36
Speaker
And it wasn't that there was a lack of confidence. It was that we were talking about an issue and bringing awareness to it. And so, you know, it's really why I think the conversation is so important, especially with men in the room.
Inclusivity and men as allies
00:11:52
Speaker
We are not exclusive to women and that is by design. I think it takes everybody.
00:11:58
Speaker
And I think Julie and Brittany and Erin also agree that, you know, I think it's great to have men as I call them ambassadors, but ambassadors for this to help support us and help give us a hand up in certain cases.
00:12:14
Speaker
highlight when women are on point in the discussion versus having a man reiterate what we've said and then have credit taken for whatever the topic was being discussed. Those are pretty general statements. I'll let Brittany and Julie add any additional context there. Yeah, I think it's wonderful to have all the participants from all different fields using data.
00:12:41
Speaker
education, public health, cybersecurity, and people will ask, how do you get into cybersecurity? How do you do this? So not only just the gaps or the gender gaps, gender differences of conversation we have during the meeting, we also talk about how if you want to get into cybersecurity, how can you do it? And how do you start this? You're sharing those experiences with really valuable people and really being able to commit a network.
00:13:10
Speaker
Also, I think that even though our group is about data and women, I think that a lot of the things that we talk about could be for any audience, no matter what industry they're in or no matter what kind of work they're doing. It just happens that we're all on data and when we have examples of our experiences, we can all relate to them.
00:13:32
Speaker
When we talk about it from a data perspective, I think it really does apply to other staff positions. Certainly, I don't do data, as other folks do, as a profession. So when I come at it from a hobby and just, for me, it's almost, it's more of an advocacy to be a part of this group.
00:13:50
Speaker
But I've been in STEM and I have the same or similar experiences in my positions that I've held that I've heard from women in data professions. So I think it is a broad issue.
00:14:06
Speaker
Certainly. So Emily, you mentioned the other data plus women groups in San Francisco and London. There's also a lot of meetup groups here in DC, specifically around data, the data community DC
Feedback and value of small group discussions
00:14:17
Speaker
group. And a lot of those groups have sort of a fairly standard structure where, you know, someone stands up and gives a talk. Brittany, you run the Tableau user group tends to be like 150 people, a couple of people get up and talk about whatever it is, data, Tableau, whatever it is.
00:14:32
Speaker
But the organization, the structure of your group is a little bit different. You have these panels and then you break into smaller groups. So how is that structure, what's the feedback you've gotten on that structure and how is that maybe facilitating these different conversations and the growth of the group?
00:14:46
Speaker
I think that the users of the ASDS have really liked the small groups. I think that everyone's kind of used to the general presentation. I sit there and listen and kind of take notes. I think that the breakout groups are good because they're smaller so that everyone can say something. But when it's a big crowd, like at the Tableau user group meetings, it's over 100 people. Most people aren't going to get to say something. So I think that the smaller group is good.
00:15:16
Speaker
you get to know the people in your group, so then it's also networking at the same time. Yeah. Do you feel that this topic of talking about gender issues and inequities in the workplace and in life generally, do you sort of feel like maybe people wouldn't be as open in a group, in front of a group of 150 people, but maybe in a table of six or seven people, they're more willing to sort of share and talk about, I don't know if the word intimate is right, but talk about these types of issues more freely.
00:15:46
Speaker
Definitely. I think people will share their experiences more freely. And I think every single one of them in the group, at least for the groups that I've been leading, I've led, they all share every single one of them. I haven't seen any people just backing up on this. So that's something. And having an intimate group really opening up a platform for anyone to speak about their minds. Right. Right. OK. So where are you heading from here?
00:16:15
Speaker
We have a lot of ideas. That's great. So we're thinking we like sticking with the small groups because you just heard all the pros to that. So we're thinking we could show a video and then do small groups after that. We could do hackathons.
00:16:37
Speaker
that's a big tech type of event. So like hackathons, we also thought about just doing some networking events because sometimes, even though we have time for networking, it's sometimes easier to network when it's a dedicated time for networking, I guess. And we also wanted to do some non-profit volunteering. We also thought about doing collaborations with some STEM programs in the DC area.
00:17:04
Speaker
Also, a lot of companies are interested in this group and what we're doing, especially for my company, Lord actually has a group of women and they actually have expressed and collaborated on events. So not only that, you know, a company within, you know, you're making an impact within the company that you'd like to reach out and do more things like, you know, collaborate with a bit of this woman. That's
Future plans for the chapter
00:17:31
Speaker
something that you're
00:17:32
Speaker
going to find something out in the future? I was just going to say, I think, you know, while we have these concepts and I think that definitely, I know we've been approached by somebody in a local school system who's like, you know what, this would be great if you could bring this kind of thing to the schools. And so it was really awesome to have that kind of interest.
00:17:57
Speaker
We like sticking with, as Brittany mentioned, we like sticking with the small group discussion. I think we also want to provide a little bit of technical tutorials or skills just to meet the needs of the entire group and also to keep it fresh.
00:18:17
Speaker
So I think while our focus is primarily on soft skills, I think you can see where we may introduce a little bit of the technical side because that's
00:18:29
Speaker
equally important, you have to be able to demonstrate the skills in order to get the job or the promotion or whatever the case may be. Yeah, it's really interesting the way you all describe the goals for the group because on the one hand you have this sort of professional development of the attendees, but then you've also mentioned going to schools, you've also mentioned volunteering, and so it sounds like that side is more an outreach and education
00:18:54
Speaker
of other people. I wrote a blog post a while back when the US women's soccer team brought the suit. And that was sort of my perspective on like, how do I talk to my daughter about these inequities? And so I'm curious what your perspective is on taking a group where you're talking about and wrestling with these gender issues and how you would apply that in a volunteer or in a school setting where you're talking to younger kids, be it elementary, middle, high school.
00:19:22
Speaker
You know, I think, and I'll let Julie or Brittany jump in, but I think that one, it's just getting kids comfortable, or girls, but getting kids comfortable that this is something that they can pursue. So I think the conversation is different in elementary versus high school.
00:19:44
Speaker
So, in high school, it may be more of a, you know, this is, you know, here are some options available. Here's what it means to be involved in data. And it's not just necessarily coding. It could be data visualization, data storytelling, you know, so have that kind of conversation and maybe open their eyes to something that they may not be familiar with versus
00:20:07
Speaker
elementary school where it may just be, you know, introducing the concept and getting them really interested and engaged and just so that it becomes kind of just a part of their schooling and their life and it's part of the conversation. It's not this abstract thing.
00:20:25
Speaker
So I think that that's a big part of it is just bringing awareness and just making it kind of part of life, part of their conversation. Yeah, also we're setting up the mindset that we can not just stereotype, but you know, women tend to have HR jobs.
00:20:41
Speaker
You know, those aren't the only options that we have. We have other options.
Educating children on diverse career options
00:20:45
Speaker
Engineering, you know, dealing with data, you know, involves physics and data engineering and computer engineering. All sorts of science programs can be useful for building the capability and, you know, moving on.
00:21:00
Speaker
You know, John, what's interesting is that I just had to have a conversation with my almost six-year-old because I was trying on suits one day and she says, Mommy, you look like a president and girls can't be president.
00:21:17
Speaker
I hear him about five. And so she was like, well, mommy, oh, my boys have been presidents. And I'm like, well, yes, just because only boys have been presidents doesn't mean that only boys can be presidents. And so obviously, we had a little bit of conversation there. And if girls want to be president, they should go for it. And then we can talk about Hillary Clinton. But if you know, it's
00:21:46
Speaker
having that conversation even as early as age five and six of, you're not concerned about gender-based roles in terms of what you can do for a job. So even at that level, introducing that concept I think is so key.
00:22:02
Speaker
Absolutely. I mean, there's a long line of research that shows the differences in math and science at the very young ages and how there's a big drop-off and a big growth and disparity in computer science, for example, between men and women who move into a graduate program. So, yeah, so I think those sorts of things are really interesting and I think it's a great aspect of the group that you're branching. You're reaching out sort of not just for the attendees who are there, but also for other folks and kids.
00:22:30
Speaker
Okay,
Upcoming events and sessions
00:22:31
Speaker
so we've talked a little bit about where you're heading next, sort of wish lists or generalities sort of thing, but specifically, what do we have come up? You have a meeting coming up next week, right? Yeah, so on the 28th, we are going to be doing a little bit more of a technical one this time. So we're going to have a couple area community leaders. So there's going to be right now, we're thinking of Tableau or Python.
00:23:02
Speaker
And they're going to do like many presentations that just kind of introduce the audience to what all of those are. And then if people have questions or specific examples where they need help, we're going to set up kind of like a tech doctor.
00:23:19
Speaker
Oh, great. Yeah. Real, real hands on. Yeah. And then planning monthly meetings. Is that the, is that the schedule? It's about quarterly. So if you're in DC 28th and once you secured the location, I'll make sure it's on the show page so people can attend. Um, okay, great. Well, uh, the group is fantastic. I look forward to attending more meetings. It's dated plus women, uh, the DC chapter. Uh,
Encouragement for new chapters and collaboration
00:23:42
Speaker
there's a San Francisco chapter, a London chapter, Sydney, anything else? There's maybe Atlanta's coming up with Alex.
00:23:49
Speaker
Well, yeah, Alex just recently moved, so I think to be determined on Atlanta in terms of who's taking that over, but we can certainly, obviously, the one thing actually I do want to say is that if anybody's interested in starting a local data plus women's meetup, any of the, I'll call the chapter, but any of the meetup organizers of any of the local meetups are more than willing to share information because we really want to see
00:24:18
Speaker
this awareness and this conversations grow. So if you're in Atlanta and looking for one, certainly reach out to us and we can put you in contact with who might be taking that role over. Or if you're looking to start one up, we can help. Yeah, that'd be great. So if you're looking to start one up, I will put contact information for all four of you on the show page so people can email you incessantly. But if they're starting groups, that'd be great. That's great. Emily, Brittany, Julie, thanks so much for coming on the show. This has been great.
00:24:47
Speaker
Thank you so much, Sean. Thanks, everyone, for tuning in and listening to this week's episode. If you have comments or questions, please let me know. And of course, please do rate the show and review the show on iTunes, Stitcher, or your favorite podcast provider. So until next time, this has been the Policy Fizz Podcast. Thanks for listening.
00:25:15
Speaker
This episode of the PolicyViz podcast is brought to you by Tableau Software. Tableau helps people see and understand their data. Tableau 10 is the latest version of the company's rapid-fire, easy-to-use visual analytics software. It includes a completely refreshed design, mobile enhancements, new options for preparing, integrating, and connecting to data, and a host of new enterprise capabilities. To learn more, visit tableau.com.