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EP.09 The Vernon Spring
34 Plays11 days ago
Pete invites multi-instrumentalist, producer, and composer Sam Beste to talk about his latest album "Under A Familiar Sun". Sam is perhaps best known as the former live pianist for Amy Winehouse but under his alias The Vernon Spring, he creates atmospheric, genre-blending music that fuses ambient piano improvisation, jazz, and subtle electronic production.
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Transcript
Introduction and Apology
00:00:00
Speaker
Hey folks, how you doing? Pete here from Ishmael Ensemble. Been a while, sorry about that. I got a bit busy having a child, a second child, so as you can imagine, life is pretty busy at the moment.
00:00:19
Speaker
But we're three months in and feeling... I guess in a position where i can start to do things like this again. So, uh, I'll be picking things back up over the next few months.
Recording at Real World Studios
00:00:35
Speaker
The radio show is back on and that means there's loads of interviews to come, which I'll be putting here as well. It's currently a very drizzly morning post heat wave, which is actually quite refreshing.
00:00:54
Speaker
Um, You can probably hear various noises in the background as I stroll around Real World Studios, an amazing place where we're just finishing up the next album.
00:01:09
Speaker
And i thought id duck out just to record this and get the new episode up. This one was actually recorded at the end of last year, so there's a bit of chat about kind of...
00:01:24
Speaker
how the year went and winter sun.
Sam Best's Background and Music Career
00:01:29
Speaker
But it's still very relevant because um for me, it was one of my favourite records of the year made by this artist, Sam Best, aka the Vernon Spring.
00:01:43
Speaker
Not only an incredible solo musician and pianist, he used to also play in Amy Winehouse's band back in the day. and is a very celebrated musician in his own right.
00:02:00
Speaker
He also had a project called Hegira, which I stumbled across at WOMAD, which feels very relevant now being at Real World and talking about it.
00:02:11
Speaker
But they were a brilliant band. And i guess in some ways, the Vernon Spring is a continuation of that kind of music. um
00:02:23
Speaker
We didn't dwell too much on the Amy Winehouse stuff. I mean, that's obviously an era that ended in tragedy. So we thought it best to so chat about the positives, really. And a lot of that revolves around his latest album, Under a Familiar Sun.
00:02:45
Speaker
Oh, it's really starting to rain now. Um... Yeah, a beautiful record filled with ambient piano and these just really lovely, warm, sonic spaces.
00:02:58
Speaker
few vocal features, namely our mutual friend Max Porter, who, if you don't know, is brilliant author and poet.
Reflections on Music and Pandemic Impact
00:03:09
Speaker
watch this space because yeah you might be seeing more of him as well.
00:03:14
Speaker
Anyway, um as I said, the the radio show is kind of back on now so there's going to be loads of interviews coming up which I'll be putting here as well. So this is kind of just a welcome back to Catching Light and expect more to come soon.
00:03:32
Speaker
All right. hope you keep it dry. I'll see you soon. Cheers.
00:03:54
Speaker
you
00:04:08
Speaker
Afternoon, everyone. um Pete here from Ishmael Ensemble and delighted to round up the year with a very special guest who has, yeah, made one of my albums of the year, I think. Aw, thank you.
00:04:26
Speaker
It feels suddenly that time of year where you start to be a bit kind of... um Yeah, looking back and retrospective of what you've been listening to. And don't know, I think like, whether it's since COVID or not, suddenly been more aware of the years again, I feel like there's actually something to the end of the year, you know. When we were in that kind of lockdown thing, it all felt like a bit of a time warp. But the last few years, I've kind of really actually taken the time to sit down and collate my thoughts of what, you know, what I've achieved, what I've listened to and what I've enjoyed. And one of those things that I really have enjoyed is the album Under a Familiar Sun by the brilliant Sam Best, a.k.a. The Vernon
Relocating to Brighton and Its Influence
00:05:14
Speaker
Spring. Hey, Sam, how you doing?
00:05:16
Speaker
Hi Peter, um I'm doing pretty good. Yeah, I'm sitting in my very beautiful local park. um um There's something about kind of winter mornings and the way that the sun hits the earth, which is very, very beautiful. and So I'm fully embracing that, basking in it.
00:05:35
Speaker
Yeah. Is that a familiar son to you? ah That's a good question. It's always partly unfamiliar, but um depends on my frame of mind. But today, today i feel like i feel quite connected to it today.
00:05:50
Speaker
m Yeah, we we have a little dog and as much as he's sometimes the bane of our lives, he's also a great excuse to just get up and get out and experience the day, you know Yeah.
00:06:04
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. That's a real perk. ah fuck Yeah. It's, it's yeah. ah Being responsible to another being and then they, but they also kind of help you to reconnect with the outdoors. Yeah.
00:06:17
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, totally. Yeah. but but but I don't have a dog, but I do have three kids. So it's is that they also get me out of the house. Yeah. Well, we've got one of them. We've got one of them as well. And yeah, we're we're kind of... it's It's funny because a trip to the park is a very different thing for both of them and trying to kind of negotiate because the dog's not allowed in the play park. But, you know, the kid obviously only wants to go in the play park. So it's always a bit of a kind of...
00:06:42
Speaker
It's some early lessons in compromise where, you know, you've got this amazing slide in front of you, but we really have to throw the ball for the dog. and Wow, that does like a tough negotiation.
00:06:53
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. yeah um So where is that? you You're in London, right? I'm in Brighton, actually. Oh, Brighton. I'm originally from London. Okay. But in the sort of, well, it was just at the end of the pandemic.
00:07:08
Speaker
and It was informed by all the changes that we were all moving through in the pandemic in different ways. But yeah, we we moved to Brighton in 2021. Okay. and So yeah, it's it's home now.
00:07:21
Speaker
Yeah. i've I've got a a real soft spot for Brighton. My my brother went to Sussex Uni and he's a few years older and it was kind of my first taste of like going down to visit him and then DJing at parties and stuff down there. And um yeah, it became a bit of a second home for a few years. and Yeah, it's a good spot.
00:07:41
Speaker
It's quite unique, isn't it? It is. Yeah, I guess I knew it from that transient lens of people that are coming there study and yeah kind of disappearing and there's ever sort of evolving scene. But how how does it feel to kind of be a resident of Brighton? Do you enjoy it?
00:07:59
Speaker
I do, yeah. I'm really actually feeling very appreciative of it at the moment in particular for some reason. um ah Yeah, it's got... It's so multifaceted, you know. it's Obviously, it's got the sea and the kind of epicness, the relentless epicness of the sea.
00:08:19
Speaker
And, yeah, the joy of that as well. like The kids obviously love that, space especially in the summer. um But my partner, she she goes in it every day regardless of... weather. and yeah I don't. I stopped i stopped getting in usually around this time. Except for New Year's Day, we always jump in on Year's Day i amazing as a family.
00:08:42
Speaker
But yeah, it's a great place to live. um And so yeah, we all we all seem to and bed be pretty happy here, I think. Yeah.
00:08:53
Speaker
and Yeah. Big skies. I always think of that kind of south coast with like, you know, where it's a bit flatter and it's a bit kind of less rugged. You just have these massive skies that you can kind of look at and get the starlings and everything. Yeah, yeah. It's beautiful. The starlings are amazing. Yeah, man.
00:09:16
Speaker
I don't think of Brighton as flat, though. I mean, it's pretty hilly. We live on a big... Yeah, no, you're right. I guess more just being on the beach and looking out... Exactly. Outwardly flat. There's nothing there's nothing going that way.
00:09:26
Speaker
yeah Yeah. Yeah, yeah. No, you're right, actually. i remember, yeah walking back to, like, various people's houses. and I guess living in Bristol, Bristol feels like the hilliest of the hilly, so... Oh, is that where you are? Okay. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
00:09:40
Speaker
Yeah, we're kind of... Yeah, very much. I guess similar vibes, small city with a lot yeah a lot to say, right? Yeah, exactly. exactly I always enjoy going to Bristol.
00:09:52
Speaker
o Yeah, yeah, yeah. um and you're just back from a big show at the weekend, right? ah At the South Bank, is that right? Yes.
Milestone Performance at South Bank
00:10:00
Speaker
i Yeah, Queen Elizabeth Hall, we played on Friday. And
00:10:06
Speaker
yeah, it was... A big show in lots of different ways. and it's the first time I've played at the South Bank with the Vernon Spring. I've played with a few other people, but before my own with my own thing.
00:10:19
Speaker
But yeah, definite milestone for me. I mean, when I was growing up, I used to go there a lot, being a Londoner, and my my dad would take me a lot there to see... a lot of different type of music but a lot of jazz music in the jazz festival and stuff and and I guess yeah um it's a bit of a kind of dream come true in a way to play there myself um But yeah, it was quite a remarkable thing to do as well because it was involved a lot of different people. There was 11 different musicians were involved on Friday. It was it was quite um but an ambitious show. um
00:10:55
Speaker
But um yeah, they were all incredible. Everyone put their all into it and I think we we pulled it off. Amazing. Yeah, yeah. yeah I was going to ask, because, yeah, I mean, when I think of your music, it's incredibly intimate. And, you know, particularly the last record, maybe more than most, you know, very kind of produced, but not not overproduced, just in that the production is a tool in itself. And... um Yeah, how how does that translate for you? Do you kind of reimagine everything for stage or do you have kind of faith that the audience are ah happy to be that intimate with the setup or, you know? It's both basically. I've and i've explored different avenues this year um and i've been I've found ways of doing it in different and configurations, all of which I i've really enjoyed.
00:11:44
Speaker
um and it's exactly like you say, really, I've been doing quite quite a lot of shows solo. um um And I sort of feel like I and really started to... I i sort of found my pocket with that. and I had the chance to... I did six shows in Japan in... um when was it September? And went out there by myself.
00:12:05
Speaker
And yeah, it really allowed me to, you know, just doing six shows in a row, it really, um that was when I sort of worked out how to do more of the Under a Familiar Sun music solo. Because ah initially, yeah, I was thinking, how am I going to do this by myself? um Because like you say, it does it's it's much more multi-layered and much sort of i involved production sound in my earlier work. But there is still,
00:12:33
Speaker
um yeah like you also said, a lot of intimacy to it. and and So yeah, i found a way to find that balance by myself. But then I have been doing some shows as well um with two two or three other musicians, um which gives much more scope to make a more kind of three d um Well, I wouldn't necessarily say 3D, but a a fuller representation of um Under a Familiar Sun in particular. land the The earlier stuff from A Plane Over Woods is much more possible to do by myself. um
00:13:09
Speaker
But then Friday was also, i I was also performing new music for the first time. i' mean i'm in... the middle of
Collaborative Music Creation
00:13:16
Speaker
creating a new album which is has a very different sound and is much more kind of ensemble based which is why we needed so many musicians. yeah So yeah, it was that actually the the Under a Familiar Son part I did just again with two other musicians and with a vocalist and my dear friend Callum who does who kind of does a lot of the piano processing live. Oh cool.
00:13:40
Speaker
Yeah, um along with like playing some samples and stuff from the album. oh yeah So yeah, it's a mixture but I have actually really enjoyed finding solutions in different configurations and realizing that it actually really is possible to do it alone, but it has a different kind of feeling.
00:13:58
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's different feeling when everything's coming from you and it's more limited in some ways, but it also allows you to go deeper into certain things. Yeah, I mean, that's certainly something I kind of get from your music anyway, is that the even though it seems to be very collaborative, um it's all very cohesive, which is like the real, ah yeah, amazing skill, I think. you know I always kind of strive for that in in my own work. I work with lots of different vocalists and stuff, and it's it's actually...
00:14:28
Speaker
Yeah, creating something like cohesive, which um is the hardest part from my my perspective anyway, but certainly like listening to the album, you know, there's loads of kind of different vocalists and people involved, but it all sounds from the same world. And I don't know if that's from the production or just kind of your direction or just maybe it happens naturally because, you know, you're putting your trust in these people and you you come from the same space, but yeah, well how do you go about collaborating? Is that something you kind of have an idea off from the get-go or is it just kind of unfolding through the process?
00:15:07
Speaker
it's It's a bit of both, but but kind of all stems from more of an unfolding organic um process, I think. And so everything that you just said is wrapped into it in a way. I think so much of why it feels cohesive is because of how the collaborators are bringing themselves to the music. I i was very fortunate to work with people on this album that were so such compassionate listeners, like they really wanted to under understand what the music was about.
00:15:39
Speaker
And also everyone involved i have a longer standing relationship with as well. So there's already a kind of friendship there. and So I think that also helps. But yeah, ah ah all of all of all of those relationships were really forged through through the music itself. So Eden, who does a lot of the sort of guest vocals and also did some writing on the album, I met through their appreciation of my music and coming to one of my shows and then we sort of and then I became a huge fan of their music. and
00:16:10
Speaker
You know, so there was already, it that's how it happens organically, ah in ah I feel. It sort of comes from the music. people People gravitate towards each other because of how the music is travelling through the world. And I think that sort of helps to create something that, like you say, sort of has has ah has a clear voice to it. But I suppose it's also because all of those elements are filtered through. i mean, I'm i'm also...
00:16:35
Speaker
mixing the album so it's kind of you know it all kind of go it is edited and filtered through through me in the end and i guess that also helps yes it's a combination i think
00:17:02
Speaker
Is there a way to stay so long to the rising of waves? Where there's nothing to gain, they won't find all the seas have changed.
00:17:24
Speaker
David Byrne seems to be everywhere at the moment. I think he's been on a bit of a press rampage or something, you know, from new record. and i had seen I didn't know. i'm so hermited. I need to find out. well yeah Is it out already, his new album? I don't think, I don't know. Okay. As I say, this is just kind of...
00:17:43
Speaker
come out of nowhere but okay but yeah you know he was saying like everyone everyone's always like oh you know you write music to try and like articulate your emotions and stuff like that and it's like no no no it's the other way around you know you make music so that you can articulate your emotions you know you don't go into it thinking i'm gonna write a song about this it's more like i'm gonna start playing music and see what it evokes and yeah i love definitely That's always been my experience as well. I always remember Bjork saying that as well, is that she know she never knows what she's making until she's made it, you know. And I always connected much more with that kind of, um or that that sort of understanding of music felt more true to my own experience with my relationship to music rather than this idea that sometimes I felt people were
00:18:32
Speaker
talking about when I was younger about like having this vision from the start, which maybe some people do.
Intuitive Music Creation Process
00:18:36
Speaker
And there's an aspect of that. There's there's an aspect of like feeling something evolving from within you that you have this, that you you have a sort of thread that you're following, but it's all very um abstract and and about feeling and intuition. you know, you often don't know what that amounts to um in my experience. um And yeah, there there is something quite mysterious about that. um But yeah, I think... um And then often emotionally you don't even quite know what you've made and it hits you sometimes, it doesn't hit you other times. you know i sort of
00:19:07
Speaker
remember, especially when you've been spending a lot of time with the music, sometimes it it's not clear to you. you know You listen back to it and you're not sure what's there and then and then something happens in your day or you just wake up another day and then suddenly it sort of comes back into vision again. Or or sometimes when you're listening with somebody else, it brings up the emotion again for you. It sometimes can feel quite a kind of um a bit of a dance. Yeah, yeah, totally.
00:19:32
Speaker
You have to sort of take some of your worries and you know the the fluctuation of it all with a pinch of salt because I think um yeah knowing that it kind of yeah evolves and changes from day to day a bit.
00:19:47
Speaker
Yeah and it takes time right you know often it's the idea that you've abandoned that you think was nothing you know hits you on the second listen or so you know go back to I wonder what that was actually and it's like oh my god this is the most you know profound thing I've ever done. Yeah, you're so right. Yeah, some things that you sort of discarded one day or sort of lost faith in, um suddenly sort of you listen to it in and in it with fresh ears and it's and you and you you hear what you heard initially in it or something, you know, it's, yeah.
00:20:23
Speaker
It's much more, yeah, as you kind of say, i I have an idea of maybe the setting, maybe it's more like a a stage or a play or so, you know, where you've got the setting or you've got the emotion or you've got the colour of a record, but it's kind of not the actual articulated idea, I guess. You know, it's like, I know the place that I want this record to come from or this yeah to live. and Yeah. yeah And I certainly feel that on your last record, it feels like a place that is familiar, you know, with obviously the title kind of maybe draws into that, but I think it it does feel like a world and amongst all the the noise of...
00:21:09
Speaker
trying to make singles that you know hit well on social media or whatever that there's people making albums that are a place you can kind of escape all that and and get into and maybe even more so than ever maybe there's a knee-jerk reaction that maybe us that do appreciate the album form are going deeper into that i don't know was that yeah a conscious thing for you ah Not really be honest. I sort of feel like, um I don't know, maybe maybe partly because I sit a bit outside of all of that dialogue yeah to some degree. um
00:21:41
Speaker
I'm never really thinking in that way, at least not in terms of making the work. I sort of just, like you said a moment ago, you know, you're sort of just, you keep turning up to it and it's evolving. You're in relationship, you're in a dialogue with this thing that you're creating um and you just keep turning up to that until it feels like it's found its resting place. and yes um for me, sometimes I think what's liberating about music in this day and age is that I never really necessarily need to ask what finished form that takes. Sometimes it is just one song.
00:22:15
Speaker
Sometimes it's three or four songs. and And I guess that is some sometimes also informed by... the stage of development that you're in at this time and how much you want to chew on it at a given time you know like when i was first starting with music because of an spring what felt freeing for me was to just not worry about any of that and just release one track at a time um with no sense of like what it all amounted to and and then eventually that was compiled into my first EP and then that led on to A Plane Over Words which kind of came from a similar kind of energy. it was very It wasn't premeditated at all. But then by the time that it comes to the last record, I suppose having made three or four albums already in different ways and also being in a position where I had a bit more time to make the record because the first time i had a publishing deal and different things that were just
00:23:06
Speaker
opened up a bit more space for me um it just meant that i could that all of that did a little bit provide the context where i could be yeah a sort of go a bit deeper into into the production sound but which i saw which i which i wanted to do creatively anyway but i then suddenly had the context which allowed me to do that as well i don't know i'm trying to think about it now in terms i think in terms of if there was a sort of premeditated desire to make an album rather than... I suppose there was a bit more than there was at then at the start of but of when I was releasing music as film The Veldman Spring. I think I'd reached a point for a number of different reasons where, yeah, I wanted to make something yeah that I guess
00:23:50
Speaker
was and was inspired by or related to the records that you know the albums that I loved when was growing up and the feeling that gave me to be in relationship with a body of work.
Musical Upbringing and Influences
00:24:00
Speaker
and the sort of It's a very particular thing, isn't it? It's like being able to kind of go on a journey with music over whatever it is, 9, 10, 11, 12 songs.
00:24:10
Speaker
and Like you say, that has a kind of sound well to it and that takes you on this like longer narrative i mean i just i that was so important to me my relationship to other people's records um yeah so i guess in some way you're inspired to do that as well right that becomes part of your aspiration
00:25:08
Speaker
You'll remember
00:25:44
Speaker
You kind of alluded to earlier with your dad taking you to gigs at the South Bank and stuff. Was that was there an early influence there in terms of the music you ended up making or or loving? was it Was the music in the house growing up that you really connected with?
00:26:01
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. i mean, my neither of my parents were musicians, but my my dad was a real music obsessive and and ah had an amazing record collection, very eclectic. um Very eclectic but kind of centered on jazz and soul, like that the sort of core of it. There was a lot of jazz and soul music, but but then he listened phenomenally diversely as well. Like, you know, a lot of Dylan and Joni Mitchell, and but also avant-garde and classical music that people like Luigi Nonno, this Italian composer. And he got really into serialism at one point, my dad, and just...
00:26:44
Speaker
ah He would just go through these phases of really becoming obsessive with certain different with different traditions. And he had this room at the top of the house from from where he worked. and at Near the end of his life, he was sort he was designing websites for radical left-wing organisations. He was a lifelong activist and once he retired, he never really retired. He was that sort of actual person that never really wanted to stop working, but he dedicated his time more to yeah at these anti-war organizations and other left-wing organizations.
00:27:20
Speaker
But anyway, he was working on that in his office, but a lot of the time he would also listen to music and would be pumping that out from from this office that he had at top of the house. And, and you know, ah some once I'd become very dedicated to music as a teenager, he he was also i kind quite consciously feeding new things to me from from up there. I've learned about people like D'Angelo through my dad as well. that He was kind of keeping his finger on the pulse and um would really get into it. like he He got into D'Angelo in a big way and also like some different types of hip-hop as well. and
00:27:54
Speaker
So yeah, it was a lot of my education came through him, but then also growing up in London, just having so many opportunities to go to different clubs and on the weekends and after school, war which my parents supported me. with so much. like I went to a few different big bands jazz big bands during the week and on the weekend I went to this amazing Weekend Arts College on a Sunday where I met a lot of people that I still work with together today. like you know and We were all learning how to make music.
00:28:22
Speaker
together and yeah London just had so much to offer in that way as in addition to having people who were just the generation above me you know just an amazing open-minded really um skilled musicians yeah so just just so many things to be inspired by basically but um yeah we did often go to live shows as well um across that musical spectrum really I guess that's all in there somewhere was this always piano was it yeah was that always your instrument ah Always my my primary instrument. yeah I started sight playing piano when I was five, but then I didn't i didn't care about it at all really until I was 11 when I started learning with this jazz teacher called Phil Dawson. He was but he was actually a guitarist. he still
00:29:06
Speaker
He's still a working jazz guitarist now, and but um he played enough piano to get me started. and i always remember in the first lesson, he yeah he just Whereas previously I'd been learning both you know in school and I wasn't motivated really at all, my parents had to kind of keep me at to just sort of I think they could see that there was ah something there.
00:29:34
Speaker
But then when I started learning with Phil, he it was from a completely different angle. it was It was not about sheet music, it was about improvising. And you know in the first lesson, he showed me the pentatonic scale and just said, mess around with it.
00:29:48
Speaker
And that opening, just ah it almost felt like it gave me access to everything I'd been listening to through my dad's record collection up until that point. Yeah, it gave me a completely different entry point into music, which sort of unlocked something in me really. But yeah, but because I was learning with Phil, I actually also started learning guitar with him, which did have quite a big influence on me. And I kept both going. And then, in you know, in my 20s, I actually had a a band called Hegira where I played, I actually played more guitar than I played.
00:30:17
Speaker
piano and was exploring different things at that point and i still feel like well some of the writing on the on the plane over woods was they were first guitar songs that then sort chance transformed into piano music and when i realized when i sort of came back to the piano window properly at that point so yeah i think learning with phil it did open me up to a little bit to other instruments which i'm really grateful for mention hejira because i stumbled across you uh I think, was it Womad? Did he play in the woods maybe late at night? i that like twenty
00:30:53
Speaker
Yeah. Was that like 2017, 2018 or something? I think it was 2019 because I remember it was quite fraught because my partner was on the cusp of giving birth to my second son. It was one of those where it's like, should I go to the gig? Yeah.
00:31:10
Speaker
um and it all worked out fine but um but yeah it was would have been 2019 I think. yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I just remember yeah was just kind of wandering around and heard this music coming out of the woods and hung around and watched your whole set and it was amazing and and oh thank you um yeah really kind of i can't yeah that must have been whilst i was writing our last record i think and i kind of got yeah just really into that sound and but yeah i had no idea it was you until i started uh kind of researching a bit for this and I was like oh no way oh really like yeah yeah yeah um which is weird for me because usually when I see a band I love I kind of immediately dive deep but maybe the music said enough that I didn't need to okay okay yeah
00:32:00
Speaker
But yeah, kind of going back to the listening thing, because I guess this plays into that bit, is like, you know, talk about your
Discovering Hegira and Serendipitous Encounters
00:32:08
Speaker
dad. I'm always envious of those kind of people that can listen and that's enough, because I don't know if you find that, you know, as soon as... Well, like watching Hajira or something, you know, immediately I'm like, oh, how can I incorporate these influences into my next record? You immediately become quite selfish. I know what you mean. Yeah.
00:32:27
Speaker
Wouldn't it be amazing just to, like, listen and love music? Listen music and just kind of for what it is and appreciate it. because i you know And I guess that's part of the artist's way, isn't it?
00:32:40
Speaker
bringing in these these influences, whether the musical or not, it can be anything. but um I've always been very in awe of those people who just... Do you feel like you had that a bit more when you were a teenager though? but like you know Before...
00:32:59
Speaker
i don't know I think I always put myself in that place. Even if it was band I loved, I'd still be putting their CD on and jumping around on the sofa pretending I was in a band on stage. I always remember having those compilations called Shine. And they were kind of, I don't know, more like an indie version of... I never heard of Shine. I mean, it was classic.
00:33:30
Speaker
Yeah, it would have... I don't know. I remember I had Shine 97 and it had Beetlebum, Karma Police, you know. That's a big year for Indy 97. Yeah, exactly. Manic Street Preachers, Placebo, all of that was all on it. And ah just used to play it full blast in my living room and had a guitar. and which is all Probably my dad's guitar at the time. It was just...
00:33:55
Speaker
you know, do this lap of like standing on the sofa, waiting for the big guitar moment, jumping off the sofa. I'd been going to festivals since I was a kid, really. So i'd kind of seen what it was.
00:34:07
Speaker
And then, you know, was just a in awe of that. So I think, you know, even then I was like putting myself in that place, which, okay you know, I kind of dislike it. You know, I'd love to just, don't get me wrong, there were certain things that I would just sit and listen to, but I'd always be pulling it apart.
00:34:29
Speaker
and my yeah yeah Yeah. You know, I'd listen to Van Morrison whatever, but I'd be listening out for instruments and trying to identify them or something. Yeah. It was always quite like, not mathematical, but quite forensic listening. Yeah. rich Yeah, I'm always envious of people that can just like enjoy the vibe of a song without caring whether it's an oboe or a piccolo or something. Yeah. it's great to dissect it as well though isn't it i just i love that and like i'm constantly doing it you know even music that i know so well that this is the other thing i guess as i've got older and the more collaborations i've done and the more kind of playing in different bands of different people
00:35:11
Speaker
I've just come to realize how differently we perceive or listen to music. like It's so based on our own personal experience that you know a song that can evoke certain emotions for me do something completely different for someone else. and And it kind of comes back to that same thing of your own music and then bringing it to a collaborator or an audience and then finding a totally different meaning in it. And yeah, it's quite... I mean, yeah, don't need to...
00:35:41
Speaker
go on about how magic music is but it is pretty incredible it is but again like you say you know being aware of that as a kid and it's actually only like again being a adult maybe and having children and seeing it's through new eyes or having siblings and like looking back and being like oh wait a minute you didn't listen to music in that way or like you know you had a different relationship with music like i can't possibly imagine how everyone in the world isn't like dissecting everything and i remember meeting so you know like a mate meeting up with a mate you know oh what have you been listening to i don't know whatever's on in the pub it's like mental but yeah i don't know you kind of i guess we're both in that world of surrounding yourselves with music heads where you just kind of end up writing deeper and deeper yeah mad mad music that you know when you kind of step back oh yeah maybe this is quite weird music yeah
00:36:44
Speaker
english i am
00:37:25
Speaker
In memory, I'm the only one All the moments spreading like the shedding sound
00:37:45
Speaker
I thought just touch on, because I know we've got a mutual friend in Max, Max Porter. Yeah. And the sound's from a safe harbour, because I've clocked it. You've been there a few times. And, you know, i guess this comes from that idea of creating these spaces for collaboration and and safe safe spaces to kind of develop stuff. um And, yeah, how much influence maybe that or those kind of things have had on the music
Influence of Sounds from a Safe Harbor Festival
00:38:14
Speaker
you write?
00:38:14
Speaker
Yeah, I mean it's been massively influential the last few years. i mean if the first Sounds from a Safe Harbor I did was 2023. And biannual and and um it's biannual also i The next one I did was just this year.
00:38:33
Speaker
And it's an incredible culture they've built there. It's just on so many different levels. um it's I mean, the first word that comes to mind is just kind. Just the people that run it are just so caring and kind and... what And that just create is is that's like the foundation of the whole thing, it feels like. But yeah, it was really ah a dream come true to be invited into something like that, where you have a whole week where you're given the space to create new work with people that have been brought together by... i mean, it's different every year, but always with this lady, Mary Hickson, who founded it.
00:39:12
Speaker
But yeah, that's that's how I met Max because Max and Mary are longtime friends and Max has been involved with them so far, but I think from the start. um yeah And um for the first one that I did, Mary suggested Max and I doing something together.
00:39:27
Speaker
And I'd read one of his books by that point, but was only sort of semi familiar with him. um and um yeah it just it worked so well and he's just become a good friend and is just a remarkable person on so many different levels the way he works b blows me away like he's so um he's it feels like i don't know a free-flowing river or something it's it's so kind of just he's constantly in it it feels like and he's also equally in the same way it also feels like a
00:40:03
Speaker
and river energy to be like not so precious about things you know he kind of he creates these beautiful words and then hands them over and is like do yeah do what you do what you will with them you know cut them up and you know take one sentence if you want you know don't use any of it whatever yeah yeah yeah
00:40:22
Speaker
So for both both festivals and he provided a kind of narrative framework that myself and other collaborators could dip into in order to give shape um to us writing from a music perspective.
00:40:40
Speaker
And yeah, it works really, really well working in that way with the people that I was collaborating with at both times. and This last one was particularly intense. like We wrote a whole, this new album that I'm working on now was basically written there. So in that week, I came i came with some some kind of compositional frameworks and that combined with Max's narrative kind of framework um meant that people could sort of step into that and complete complete the circle.
00:41:08
Speaker
They're transformative experiences those weeks and then you sort of come out of it on one level needing to recuperate but on another level wishing that every week would be like that.
00:41:19
Speaker
Yeah. Amazing. Yeah, I mean, I've known Max a little while now. Yeah, I did a bit of work on Steve, the film. Oh, wow. We just watched it a couple of weeks ago. It's really, really good.
00:41:33
Speaker
The side hustle, I guess I do. um Electrics in TV and film. and Oh, wow. um Yeah, so, yeah, I was ah fitting some very, you know, was that laundry room scene, all the lights that go mental. Yeah.
00:41:46
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Hanging very precarious, broken 90s lamps above an Oscar winner's head. was but He's going to like run into this wall and like then collapse. was like, ah okay. Oh, wow. But yeah, I mean, that was, and and again, like, in terms of process, like, watching that happen, you know, because it was quite a surreal experience. Usually, the role I'm involved in, you know, you're kind of building sets. And from a design perspective, you're doing it way before ah any actors are involved. But this was like, everyone was in the same, basically, at that house. it was happening then and there, kind of. Exactly. like We were working in one room and they were filming next door and then it was kind of this revolving thing. So Max was there, Killeen was there. Yeah, it was really beautiful. You can feel that energy in the film. yeah you can It feels very immediate and kind and I can imagine it coming together in that way.
00:42:46
Speaker
yeah yeah it was so and even like the officers so like in the school so it's kind of two locations was the the school and then this house both of which were like pretty much a stone throw from where i grew up so like ironically the the big house where like the staff room and stuff's filmed i did like a trial shift washing dishes when i was like 15 or something wow i'd never got the job but felt a bit like smug walking around like look at me now you but um But you know, so it was like, even more familiar to me. But yeah, watch it. We all had like a crew.
00:43:22
Speaker
We went to the Bristol premiere. And you know, it was like such an intense watch because even though the Yeah, the office department, the production department, they were like in a room in the school, you know, it wasn't like, They were in an office in London, which is usually the case that it's all over email. So yeah, it was just mad. Hundreds of people putting this thing together in the building. and yeah it was quite mad. but anyway, so I met Max through that.
00:43:45
Speaker
and you know's And initially I was most excited because his brother, do you know Roley? His brother? Yeah. I never met him, but he recorded he recorded Max's vocal for that for the last album. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he was in a duo called Vexed in the early noughties, which for me were like one of the most incredible like groups at the time. you know I remember being college, and so they were kind of dubstep affiliated, early dubstep days. but Wow, I had no idea. Yeah, yeah, yeah, man. So yeah so you know I was like, what?
00:44:18
Speaker
You're like Roly from Vexed, brother. You know, that's mental. what family um yeah i know yeah and uh yeah kind of like i don't know if you ever listened to like venetian snares or kind of some of the stuff on hyper dub you know that kind of left of dubstep experiment okay its not means i know the names but i haven't haven't yeah i mean it's mental music yeah it's definitely go for a run or something you know it's okay pretty intense but okay so um but anyway you know yeah met max there and oh it's so sweet you know he's kind of met at the tea table and just like yeah immediately got that energy and it's so supportive right it's so like he's just seems to have endless energy yeah for everyone which yeah is it's quite amazing and yeah we're we're working on something together as well and exactly that same process of oh great you know, i yeah, do what you want, make you know, make it as mental as you want, or exactly that, just like chop it up, and you know, and you know what it's like working with other collaborators sometimes, you know, it's the most important thing ever, and it is the most precious thing ever, and there's lines that can't be, you know, yeah um overstepped or whatever.
00:45:34
Speaker
Yeah, it's a very, it's very, look really based on trust with Max, I think, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, but yeah, i mean, for me, that's taught me about how to be a better collaborator as well, i think, you know Yeah.
00:45:47
Speaker
know about you, but yeah, it feels like, oh, this is how you initiate it, or this is where it comes from. Yeah, definitely.
00:46:00
Speaker
I forgot to say, stand in your own form and be gone, then grow.
00:46:09
Speaker
The first word was hurt, it was difference, and we might unsound this curse for that. I mean not one, but still on wing for the unseen I'm asking, lend me your spirit in pieces.
00:46:28
Speaker
This was once city, this was once green, this is them who borrowed a drowning sea, I swear I am not that, I am your matter and my matter in tune to that fact, one of us not that, then another, then another, a clarity beneath any utterance or name or word, the so called other reverberates in me,
00:47:07
Speaker
never met same flesh and same sky sounded in me and i flinched am meant to remember born to forget nothingness quickened the shock of human pulse i swore i would be here with you i forgot to say
00:48:00
Speaker
Is it just form?
00:48:07
Speaker
To keep you from the love that lives Love to the breath, love
00:48:36
Speaker
You know, you talk about moving forward onto the new record and and I guess I'm in a similar place where you know made a few records now and all of a sudden it feels like there is a thing or a sound at a point maybe it was just experimentation and stuff. do you Do you feel that with the Vernon Spring? Do you feel there's a a sound world you have to be loyal to or is this new record very different or can it be anything in your eyes? I think it's similar little to what we were talking about before in the way that I i basically, I don't think I ever really think about it in that way. i i'm just I mean, this new album kind of fell into my lap in a way. it's not I sort of stumbled into it through Sounds From the Safe Harbor. And then I feel like it's the music.
00:49:22
Speaker
you're yeah you're in dialogue with the music and it's suggesting certain things to you. So if like so for instance, in the lead up to Sounds From So Far, but I was starting to collect going through my archive and collecting three different bits of unused music that at first I didn't know if they hung together. and then all of a sudden, just in the week before, I really started to hear how they did hang together and following a conversation that I had with Max.
00:49:45
Speaker
And then some the music started to
00:49:50
Speaker
evoke these sounds of bells or something bell-like and then I thought and and ah and then that it made me think oh well maybe I could speak to Mary to see if I could get a vibraphone in my room where we'd be making this music and Mary being Mary was like yeah sure and and so when I arrived there there was a vibraphone there okay and so and so that became i guess as I'm just saying this as an example of following these threads. That was one thread and then there were other other things happening in my mind that I was trying to sort of... your your Firstly, Mary was sending me like, these are all the people that are at Sansom's so far, but...
00:50:31
Speaker
Who do you think might you might want to collaborate with for this thing that's evolving for you? And and and then you know you go back into your imagination and start to imagine what different configurations might lead to. And that's also in dialogue with the music that you have. So there's all these kind of conversations that are happening internally and externally that are leading to creating this and nurturing this music that's evolving. Yeah. and and But the vibraphone really sort of became...
00:50:58
Speaker
central to this news this new sound and then when we started Queen's before we actually had two vibraphones. So it's an extension I suppose of what the Van Spring has been exploring so far. It's still with the muted piano and with and ah and textures with the muted piano but with vibraphones and other sort of ensemble elements. But it does feel different, very different I think, to the last record. has yes really conceived together with Max across the whole thing rather than just on one song like the breadline from the last one so yeah um it has a a different kind of conceptual framework from the beginning but yeah I sort of feel like that's I guess how I how i relate to I suppose I'm sort of just in dialogue with something and see and and that that's kind of what affects my decision making I suppose um rather than feeling like I have to
00:51:56
Speaker
there's nothing you know There's nobody telling me that I have to do things a certain way. Which is which means that I just focus my energy on the music itself, you just see what i mean and wherever that yeah wherever that takes me. I'm not sure I can answer that question better than that really at the moment. but that yeah But I suppose there is some kind of continuity because you know you're kind of um you're still drawn to the sounds, you know, you that you were drawn to previously, you know, but you're also searching for something fresh, I think. um
00:52:29
Speaker
And, but I think above and beyond that, really, like I said, you're, you're, you're really just searching for what this music is, that is evolving and suggesting to you. And I tried, I, I, I suppose I hoped to do that in a way that isn't, that is as pure as possible. That isn't kind of affected by sort of,
00:52:48
Speaker
at least external factors that are that are um fear driven so like you know it needs to be a certain way or it should be this or it should be that well i speak about music isn't it it is really hard yeah ah particularly your own but um yeah yeah i don't know for me i think yeah what whatever you're doing is is going to be brilliant and i Yeah, as I said, i think, yeah, Under a Familiar Sun was... It was a real, like, tonic for me because, like... ah don I don't know. I guess when you're deep in writing yourself and, you know, it's it's really affirming to know that ah there's people making such...
00:53:33
Speaker
kind of minimal and interesting and uh considered music um yeah it's like affirming to know that it's okay to explore these ideas right and uh ah be creative with it you know um and i think that's something that yeah i'm really inspired by so thank you for making thank you thank you for saying that it' is it's amazing to hear that i had an impact on you like that i completely know that feeling of sort of sometimes you feel a bit uncertain or out in the woods and you know you you sort of it's like a reminder that music can be so many different things you know sometimes you need that reminder you know you'll hear something and it can be something actually sometimes from music that's completely different to yours you know you might hear a bit Laurie Anderson or like I don't know just it's that example of there's so many different ways to forge a path through music and you should never let voices that including your own sometimes that might be saying that it needs to be a certain way or that you know I think it's about believing in and trusting in your own
00:54:33
Speaker
um relationship with music because it is yours um as much as it is anybody's and it's about kind of deepening that particular relationship that you have with the music of the spheres susan for sure well that's a beautiful place to leave it I think and yeah Yeah, thank you so much for putting in the time for this. was really nice to connect. Definitely, it really was. And it's making me want to go on an Ishmael Ensemble deep dive, which I haven't done yet. So this will be the beginning of that journey for me. it's been really fun and lovely to chat and yeah hopefully see in real life at some point soon hopefully welcome to Bristol again yeah I just missed your show the Strangebury sorry it was like I don't know was one of those you know double booked like That's the thing. I feel like, don't know, a year ago, there wasn't much happening and now all of a sudden it's back to that world of like, there's three gigs on one night that you really want to go to.
00:55:37
Speaker
And with children involved, obviously those. Oh God. Yeah. You've got to be picky. Yeah. Totally. um But yeah, nice one, Sam. Nice one. Thank you. Have a lovely day. Same to you. Nice one. Cheers. Have some love. Bye.
00:56:03
Speaker
I suggest you love like love's no loss
00:56:18
Speaker
I suggest you love like love's no loss
00:56:35
Speaker
I suggest you love like love's no loss